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Voluntary BM deletetion?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
merc999 Caldari Turbulent Subversion	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:47:00 - [31] I bit the proverbial bullet and deleted over 7k of BMs.. No noticable change in lag when jumping etc. however I can now create NEW safe spot BM's and Midwarps almost instantly without my client grinding away trying to load. MERC999 Public Relations Director TBSV Keeping Empire and Syndicate ship builders in business
merc999 Caldari Turbulent Subversion	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:48:00 - [32] Edited by: merc999 on 30/11/2006 11:48:57 double post MERC999 Public Relations Director TBSV Keeping Empire and Syndicate ship builders in business
Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:49:00 - [33] Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 30/11/2006 11:50:28 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/11/2006 11:42:44 Originally by: The Major Because the number of bookmarks over the entire playerbase would be impossible to check against gate locations in anything resembling a downtime. They could easily remove all bookmarks but then that would remove all the tactical bookmarks like sniper spots, safespots, insta-undocks etc. That wouldn't be a good thing. Yeah, I meant instas only of course. Other bookmarks are essential to keep. But when you have a super performance cluster like ccp does, in the top 400 of the worlds super computers, then you would think that it would be pretty capable of running a database delete even if its a bit slow for normal computers. You could just store the locations of all the gates in memory in a hashtable, then compare the bookmark coordinates to those locations. Should be pretty quick? Of course I really dont know much about it, im just assuming it could be made to work... :) Deletes are one of the slowest functions of any DB (one of). This is made worse by any indexing on the table - theres gonna be gag loads of it on that table just to make it function. Dunno where it came from, but I was told the estimated query length on the delete was something in the order of 72 hours. Could be a made up figure, but it sounds pretty reasonable to me. -------------------------------------------- Join Now
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:52:00 - [34] Edited by: Victor Valka on 30/11/2006 11:53:38 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/11/2006 11:42:44 Originally by: The Major Because the number of bookmarks over the entire playerbase would be impossible to check against gate locations in anything resembling a downtime. They could easily remove all bookmarks but then that would remove all the tactical bookmarks like sniper spots, safespots, insta-undocks etc. That wouldn't be a good thing. Yeah, I meant instas only of course. Other bookmarks are essential to keep. But when you have a super performance cluster like ccp does, in the top 400 of the worlds super computers, then you would think that it would be pretty capable of running a database delete even if its a bit slow for normal computers. You could just store the locations of all the gates in memory in a hashtable, then compare the bookmark coordinates to those locations. Should be pretty quick? Of course I really dont know much about it, im just assuming it could be made to work... :) It would take over 700 hours. There was a dev post about it. Total number of BM in the database was quoted at 280 million.
Eta Carinea Ascending Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:52:00 - [35] I have deleted all my empire ones about 5k worth. I am having trouble with my 0.0 ones everytime i go to delete them my hands starts to shake, followed by flash backs of flashy red things in my overview. The temptation not to delete becomes overwhelming. I am sure i will get over this but can i trust CCP to keep WTZ. Will i find one hapless day whilst traveling through 0.0 that reasuring right click warp to 0 gone. These things require a psychologist to help me with, Which eve is sadly lacking IMHO. Eta Quid Si Coelum Ruat
RedLion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:53:00 - [36] I deleted my only insta jump bookmark!
Baleine4Nerver	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:53:00 - [37] i deleted all apart from SS's.. it was very liberating ===============================================
Skyraker7 Armoured Assassins	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:54:00 - [38] It's a big scam by the carebears. Delete all your bookmarks and it will be warp to 15 again before you can ask the next asteroid "was it good for you too?" I'm keeping mine.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Victor Valka It would take over 700 hours. There was a dev post about it. Total number of BM in the database was quoted at 280 million. Sounds extreme. With 120.000 accounts, thats 2333 bookmarks per person in average. WTF? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Andargor theWise Yes, having a very big database can cause it to suffer poor performance. There are indexes to generate, and other maintenance tasks to be performed to keep it running smoothly. So yes, more BMs in the database can cause performance loss, or more accurately, steal resources for maintenance purposes. Even if you aren't using them. This is the correct answer. The guy above him is just wanted to sound smart. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Skyraker7 It's a big scam by the carebears. Delete all your bookmarks and it will be warp to 15 again before you can ask the next asteroid "was it good for you too?" I'm keeping mine. Clearly you are an idiot... Did you not see the Dev post the previous page? Deleted over 5k of instas and only have 33 SS's left- superb- also cleared out the "buddy" list due to the chat changes. Delete your gtg/gts/stg instas like everyone else. Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Victor Valka It would take over 700 hours. There was a dev post about it. Total number of BM in the database was quoted at 280 million. Sounds extreme. With 120.000 accounts, thats 2333 bookmarks per person in average. WTF? Sounds reasonable. I know lots of people with more than that many BMs. Personally I had around 1000, even with the clearout, I've still got a few hundred safespots and scanpoints.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:04:00 - [43] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/11/2006 12:04:14 Originally by: James Lyrus Sounds reasonable. I know lots of people with more than that many BMs. Personally I had around 1000, even with the clearout, I've still got a few hundred safespots and scanpoints. Its scary tbh. I wouldnt mind if they just deleted the entire bookmark table... I can remake my safespots etc. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Emiug Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:07:00 - [44] Edited by: Emiug on 30/11/2006 12:08:25 I think it would be quite interesting to see how many BMs were deleted, and their overall impact on the server.... since i have to tunnel to play eve, previously it was EVIL to play but when i removed all my bookmarks, i seem to be able to play with alot less lag etc (i mean woah, undocking took less than a minute!!!) Click For Free Video Strip Show* *may not include stripping
Skyraker7 Armoured Assassins	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:08:00 - [45] Edited by: Skyraker7 on 30/11/2006 12:10:42 Quote: Clearly you are an idiot... Did you not see the Dev post the previous page? Clearly you are a mullet, which is to say a very stupid fish which bites at anything it sees and hence gets caught all the time.
Infrared Raven Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:14:00 - [46] Edited by: Infrared Raven on 30/11/2006 12:14:25 Originally by: Ginger. Having Insta bookmarks sitting there will cause you lag. Destroy them all, its good for the soul. Ok, and when do we (the 10k+ bookmark ppl) get our solution for the problem we have right now? (15 minutes to login, unable to see/delete any bookmarks...) Infrared Raven. Your on-site Cruiser and Battlecruiser BPO Vendor
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:23:00 - [47] Edited by: Taaketa Frist on 30/11/2006 12:24:44 If you had CCP deleting people's bookmarks evening using Gate grids as a referance. Whats to say they didn't delete your near gate Scan spot? or you 150km gate sniper spot? The reason why CCP left it to the players to do this is because the petition system and forums would be instead filled with people *****ing about the fact their "really important" bms got delete along with the g2g bms. I had maybe 3000 bms. I now have about 100bms for various system Safe spots, scan spots and mining Bms. -------------- Dang nabit
Emma Green Caldari Hammerfall Industries	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:40:00 - [48] i deleted all my BM's exept few needed safespots
Vladimir Ilych Hidden Industrial Group	Posted - 2006.11.30 12:49:00 - [49] killed all my BMs last night
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.11.30 13:01:00 - [50] Don't delete them based on grid, delete them based on distance from gates. Take a 200km side cube (since you can warp max to 100 km, farthest BM would be within this cube) around the gate and then compare coordinates, no complex math needed. As about those 700 hours, well I think they could dedicate a machine or two, install on them some post-KALI BM table snapshot (no need in live version because new insta BMs won't be created, they could even enforce that), along with the list of coordinates of every gate and station that exist in EVE, and run a job that finds all insta BMs on those machines. It will run for the long time, true, but eventually it will finish, presenting the list of keys of insta BMs in BM table. Then just keep deleting the BMs from the list, for, let's say, 15 minutes during each downtime. Eventually all of them will be deleted, maybe in a month or two, or more :)
ZelRox Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.30 13:07:00 - [51] Only safespots \ tactical bms left :) about 100 total spread over 2 accounts. ---------------------- BiH 4tw
Aypse Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.11.30 14:44:00 - [52] I have resigned myself to the fact that wtz is here, to stay. I deleted every gtg,stg,gts, and instadock bm I have. Its kinda scary, but if you think about it, ccp is not going to get rid of wtz. The benefit of reduced server load outweighs the strategic/tactical value of wt15 in the minds of the devs and at least a fair share of the eve populace. Now they just need to make adjustments to lowsec to increase the danger/fun-factor to previous levels, but thats another thread full of flames. Delete your instas, they are useless now and reduce server performance.
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.11.30 15:11:00 - [53] Originally by: Infrared Raven Edited by: Infrared Raven on 30/11/2006 12:14:25 Originally by: Ginger. Having Insta bookmarks sitting there will cause you lag. Destroy them all, its good for the soul. Ok, and when do we (the 10k+ bookmark ppl) get our solution for the problem we have right now? (15 minutes to login, unable to see/delete any bookmarks...) the ddevelopers warned PRIOR to revelations deplyment that would be better to delete them before the patch. You didn't want to listen... your fault.. now pay the price.
Fliewatuet Angelus dos Business	Posted - 2006.11.30 15:16:00 - [54] Originally by: Ginger. Having Insta bookmarks sitting there will cause you lag. Destroy them all, its good for the soul. It's like preaching to the raindrops right in front of you in the middle of a great shower, isn't it? ;) Regards, Fliewatuet --
Rick Dentill Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:38:00 - [55] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 30/11/2006 06:52:16 Originally by: Raivotar Just delete instaBM's. CCP didnt say it just for fun of it. Done. Just the Safe-Spots remains. It was a rather liberating experience. I hope everybody does it to. But... The devs say it? when? where? Yeah I deleted mine on Monday before the batch, and totally liberated I did feel. The patch notes originally said it would be best to delete pre the install, but they changed it. Something to do with too much hassle deleting them post patch. _______ * Disclaimer * Some or all of the above post may not be entirely accurate.

kieron	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:02:00 - [56] As Victor stated, there were over 280 million bookmarks in the game database and it would have taken almost 700 hours for us to delete them for the community. Yes, that is just shy of a month's worth of downtime. The patch notes did ask for the community to delete their Instas before the patch. Some chose not to do so. Can we automate the process? We are looking for ways to assist players that have not been able to delete mass amounts of bookmarks and hope to have something in the very near future. Are there going to be some hiccups along the way as people delete their Instas? Sure, but the long-term benefits far outweigh the detriments. Playability for the community and individual player will increase as database performance improves due to fewer db entries. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Kaynard Stormwalker Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:08:00 - [57] Originally by: kieron As Victor stated, there were over 280 million bookmarks in the game database and it would have taken almost 700 hours for us to delete them for the community. Yes, that is just shy of a month's worth of downtime. The patch notes did ask for the community to delete their Instas before the patch. Some chose not to do so. Can we automate the process? We are looking for ways to assist players that have not been able to delete mass amounts of bookmarks and hope to have something in the very near future. Yes, you can easily automate. (Although I dunno how your GM tools work, you might not be able to :P) Set a date and say: "On day xx we are deleting every single BM" Do you need some of your BM's ? Make a folder named "sparemybms" (case sensitive :P) and move every BM you need to keep there. Downtime starts, GM's give the "delete every single BM outside the "sparemybms" folder" command, wait, be happy. Thats what I would do anyway, and soon.
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:12:00 - [58] Originally by: kieron As Victor stated, there were over 280 million bookmarks in the game database and it would have taken almost 700 hours for us to delete them for the community. Yes, that is just shy of a month's worth of downtime. The patch notes did ask for the community to delete their Instas before the patch. Some chose not to do so. Can we automate the process? We are looking for ways to assist players that have not been able to delete mass amounts of bookmarks and hope to have something in the very near future. Are there going to be some hiccups along the way as people delete their Instas? Sure, but the long-term benefits far outweigh the detriments. Playability for the community and individual player will increase as database performance improves due to fewer db entries. OOmg I just got a weak immage of what kind of beast the poor instas is for the server. I assume they is single, or double floats to top it off? (doing 100 million double float operations kill anything, guaranteed).
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:19:00 - [59] If CCP decides to revert WTZ's implementation, instas will still be dead. Theyare just way too bad for the server, and personal greed is irrelevant ultimately. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." Corp/Alliance Services
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:29:00 - [60] another way to kill instas is to do it is client side. make a background process that silently identifies the insta BMs and reports them to server. then one day kill em all. or let client (EVE client app, not a player of course) do it. nice distributed method :) can be very fast.

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