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Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 12:26:00 -
[31]
Well its not only about Blasters. It is about the tank became that good, that you cant outDPS someone anymore.
You can only win by outlast him. There was a time pre Kali, where this was same and at that time you saw lot of tankmonsters with almost no DPS, because outlasting was much more important.
How you think smaller vessels like BC, cruiser or frigates will perform, when every BS will have at least 4 heavy NOS fitted? Right now they have a chance, because BS most time carry weapons.
But because gank is no more an option, BS will instead use NOS and cruiser or smaller vessels will just be useless, if they cant targetjam the enemy.
This will have a huge impact again on the warefare and fun in EVE. And again races with no capuse will have the upper hand here :(
It just sucks, that i cant break a tank 1vs1, even when not running out of cap, not beeing shot at all and having 0 tank but 100% dmg mods fitted.
Am i the only one who thinks this is wrong? I am not saying iam loosing against a tank, i could live with that. I am saying i CANT break a tank at all.
How long was again the logofftimer? You think long enough to kill someone now? _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 12:39:00 -
[32]
Exogene and Verus should refrain from posting if they can't be arsed to contribute to the topic (which doesn't mean "agreeing"). This goes especially for you, Exogene.
I think the most central part of this thread was brought up in the post above me by Loka - now that Nosferatus are required for battleship warfare and not only as a cruiser/frigate defence, how will the smaller classes fare?
But this is not the only problem.
People like to tag-and-bag things. It's Gallente, tag it Gallente and bag it with Gallente ships. What floats to the top is what stands out, and this is also what is written on the bag description. There are several Gallente ships which are far from the grade of power that people like to attribute the Gallentean bag, but since those are the bottom feeders they get lost. Eris and Ares comes to mind, two extraordinarily pathetic ships.
But it isn't what is powerful that floats to the top, it's what stands out like a beacon. Take a look at the Amarrian bag. Here we have mediocrity that stands out, and when good ships like the Harbinger comes along they get pushed down to the bottom.
What does this have to do with the topic? People judge ships from the tags on the bags, not for what the ships are actually worth. This is why the Ares is still the games worst ship.
So, have a bit of patience and judge threads for their contents and argumentations, NOT from the tag on your mental bag. - EVE is sick. |
Etherios
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.30 12:43:00 -
[33]
Well i think we forgeting what the devs tried to do with Revelations. Make fights take longer ... which mean NO more fast or solo ganking... Small gangs are still possible put u need lot more damage power to kill fast a heavy tanked target. Solo pvp has got nerfed to boredom... i mean u will have tooo **** often 1vs1 battles ending in stalmate.
Maybe the hint is ... USE friends ... 2 blaster hyperions can melt any tank solo bs asap....
P.s. i dont agree with this .. but we never know we will see if this is for the worse or the best...
True sight isn't given to all that look for it.
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Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:36:00 -
[34]
Fights lasting longer is a good thing, as long as the one who won before would have won after Kali too, just it would take longer.
Right now this have changed and the outcome pre Kali is not the same than post Kali and last only longer. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Earthan
Gallente The Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Loka Edited by: Loka on 30/11/2006 09:35:49 well my problem isnt a my Cap, fitting or anything else.
My problem is that with maxed skills and best DPS i can bring to the battlefied, i cant kill someone who is not shooting back at all. He will be able to sustain a tank, which is strong enough to tank all my DPS and sustain his CAP.
And i am speaking of the best DPS i could bring, without using Rigs or faction Mods. Rigs i have to try, but it will be sad if you have to bring maxed skills DPS wise, T2 and Rigs to be able to kill someone 1vs1.
Right now, if i cant kill his cap, i cant kill his ship. I remember a time, where this already was the case and it was a sad time.
At least your AC dont use cap, which helps under this circumnstances alot, when taking the need of sustain your cap for been able to shoot back or tank.
I am not saying that any Minmatar are fine. I am talking that this direction is wrong, where DPS doesnt mean anything. For Fleets its range what is necessary and for small combat is NOS and tanks.
I want to use my guns to kill the enemy, not 8 NOS.
We3ll maybe need some balance ( nos nerf?) but poeple remmber if we set up 3 bs squad wirh balsters and 3 bs with nosfs , i bet the balsters guys will win , nossing isnt fast enough...
Remmber what will ahpeen on squad level also not only 1-1
The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Earthan We3ll maybe need some balance ( nos nerf?) but poeple remmber if we set up 3 bs squad wirh balsters and 3 bs with nosfs , i bet the balsters guys will win , nossing isnt fast enough...
Remmber what will ahpeen on squad level also not only 1-1
Actually, the nossing BShips would win rather easily. 8 heavy nos drains the capacitor of a Hyperion so fast and so potently that all you need to do after that is to launch drones and wait for them to whittle down the hull so the Hyperion dies.
This happens before the shield is broken on the nos ship, assuming the Hyperion/Blasterthron is the one doing the approach.
Tested this with a Hyperion versus an Abaddon. Didn't reach his armour. Couldn't run (scrambled and webbed). Couldn't do anything, he drained the cap from the cap injector even before I had time to activate a single gun.
So yes, Revelations is the time of the Nosferatu. Without a few (more than one) you're dead. - EVE is sick. |
Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ithildin So yes, Revelations is the time of the Nosferatu. Without a few (more than one) you're dead.
Well there will be for sure 2 kind of setups. The one that NOS you dry and the one who passive shieldtank, while their non capusing weaponsystem attack you.
Both wont kill each other. Either the NOS setup or the passive shieldtank will have the DPS to break the others tank. But both will kill anything, which wont have one of this setups on their ships. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Galen Silas
Gallente Mean Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:48:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Galen Silas on 30/11/2006 14:50:00 Don't know really about gallente being bad now as blaster boats, my Astarte works just fine. Even though the size of guns are smaller still i believe i heard blasters in general got nerfed kinda. I can get really good DPS with it as well, especially with void ammo the penalties of void in medium guns is pretty low imo which is a good thing.
Train for an Astarte Loka, if you have that much gunnery skills, plus with the HP increase and BC agility increase BC's are a lot more enjoyable to fly.
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KillmAll187
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Posted - 2006.11.30 14:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Etherios Well i think we forgeting what the devs tried to do with Revelations. Make fights take longer ... which mean NO more fast or solo ganking... Small gangs are still possible put u need lot more damage power to kill fast a heavy tanked target. Solo pvp has got nerfed to boredom... i mean u will have tooo **** often 1vs1 battles ending in stalmate.
Maybe the hint is ... USE friends ... 2 blaster hyperions can melt any tank solo bs asap....
P.s. i dont agree with this .. but we never know we will see if this is for the worse or the best...
Here is what you are forgetting. This move puts the headstone on solo pvp (which in many people's opinion is the most fun you can have in this game). You are now forced to fit multiple nos or always have numbers on your side. This might be fun if you are on the side with the numerical advantage, but how much fun is it to always face 3-4 people everytime you go out solo. I don't see what was wrong with pvp prior to the patch. Now it takes ages to kill something while your opponent is calling for backup like crazy.
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ookke
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:16:00 -
[40]
I wouldn't base anything on SiSi testing. There's factors like
1) did you have a slave set? did he have a slave/talisman set? 2) did you use rigs? did he use rigs? 3) did he have a realistic pvp setup, or just a megatank without scram/web?
that you need to consider. It's easy to draw early/wrong conclusions if your opponent has a fullgrade slave set plugged in with zet5000 and zet4000 and you don't.
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Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ookke I wouldn't base anything on SiSi testing. There's factors like
1) did you have a slave set? did he have a slave/talisman set? 2) did you use rigs? did he use rigs? 3) did he have a realistic pvp setup, or just a megatank without scram/web?
that you need to consider. It's easy to draw early/wrong conclusions if your opponent has a fullgrade slave set plugged in with zet5000 and zet4000 and you don't.
ofc, iam not the first time on SISI ;) Well first i thought the same about uber mods.
He stated he had only T2 mods fitted. Dunno about implants or Rigs, havent asked. I used normal TQ stuff available for me and in real combat setups.
Also he had Webber fitted, but no Scrambler i think. I just had normal PvP combat Implants like i have on TQ. So the ones you can get under 10mil the complete set. Like 3% better armor repair, 3% less Cap needed and less CPU and so on. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:29:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Loka
Originally by: Verus Potestas Cry me a river.
Well seems i missed that official things. But pls help me out here and give me a solution. How again iam now supposed to kill anything as a Gallente, without killing your cap first?
And i am not speaking about noob skills, i am speaking of maxed out skills here. No skill left to train anymore. The only thing i couldnt use yet was DMG Rigs. But it cant be that i have to be a maxedout Gallente, with 25mil sp invested for the use of Blasters and have to use a 50-100 mil worth of T2 modules and Rigs to be able to kill something with dual LAR II.
Something wrong here. Now i have to bring dozens of friends to gank again. I am wondering why all ppl complain about beeing ganked and that EVE is a gankgame, when gank is the only thing left which is possible right now.
wtf are you going on about. Neutron hyperion/mega's rip through anything BS sized one on one if you aren't jammed.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Ragnar forumwarrior
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Loka Fights lasting longer is a good thing, as long as the one who won before would have won after Kali too, just it would take longer.
Its not a good thing considering it will mean that :
-Blasters and lasers gets shafted. More importantly its probably the final nail in the laser coffin.
-Massive nerf to solo/small gang piracy. No longer can you and a mate jump into a system with 30 people, gank one of them then escape before they have time to react.
This expansion with its redicilous pvp changes combined with new players getting 800k sp just prooves that the creators is thinking about money before gameplay. We now see EVE turned down to 'easy mode'.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:55:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ragnar forumwarrior
Originally by: Loka Fights lasting longer is a good thing, as long as the one who won before would have won after Kali too, just it would take longer.
Its not a good thing considering it will mean that :
-Blasters and lasers gets shafted. More importantly its probably the final nail in the laser coffin.
-Massive nerf to solo/small gang piracy. No longer can you and a mate jump into a system with 30 people, gank one of them then escape before they have time to react.
This expansion with its redicilous pvp changes combined with new players getting 800k sp just prooves that the creators is thinking about money before gameplay. We now see EVE turned down to 'easy mode'.
You don't seem to have the slightest idea what this game is about do you? You don't understand PVP, you don't understand game progression, and you obviously disregard all gameplay changes added to EVE to enhance pvp.
Good job for being a retard.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:06:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Loka Before i start my rant let me first introduce me. My name is Loka, i have 34mil sp. 13 mil in gunnery specialiased in hybrids Rails and Blasters. All Blaster and Rail large Spec lvl 5, BS lvl 5. Also lvl 5 skills in all skills of interests for a Blasterpilot. To make it short, maxed out.
Liez! You're missing something! I'm maxed out!
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:11:00 -
[46]
"Well its not only about Blasters. It is about the tank became that good, that you cant outDPS someone anymore."
Wierd i swore repper ammounts stayed the same.Its only going to take you a bit longer to drill threw your oponnents get over it. ---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
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Scordite
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:20:00 -
[47]
Heavy tackler with nos + full gank blastership = boom?
----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
Darknar
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:24:00 -
[48]
is it not the entire point for gallente tactics to blow somebodys tank to oblivian and blow up the opponants ship before your untanked armour is shot to hell.
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Kodiak31415
Imperial Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:35:00 -
[49]
Close range balster ships got nerfed as has been discussed in the earlier topics. Can't use rails because they simply lack the DPS to break tanks and everyone wants to close to within nos range. Looks like the age of the drone is upon us....oh wait, drones somehow got more retarded with this patch and go shoot at whatever they feel like. _______________________________ Idea stolen from DS:
T2 Synthetic oil. It will get drones to return to your bay! |
Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:01:00 -
[50]
I am not even bothering fitting Rails on a Gallente anymore, if not for fleetops. If i cant break someones tank with Blasters, how could i do with Rails, which have only 1/3 of their DPS. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Darknar
Gallente Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:14:00 -
[51]
anyway, blasters are much more fun to use than railguns. you need to move about beetween different targets blowing them up. however blasters still dont have the damage per second for being so short ranged. blasters should get a boost due to balance out the ammount of damage that can be taken whilst the are out of range to the target.
at the moment i belive blasters and railguns dont do quite enough damage. i suggest adding more points more damage to all hybrid ammunition to bring this more in line. depending on size of ammo and what it does. but not by too much to overbalance the whole system.
this should balance things out a bit
the same should be done for amarr crystal types on the thurmal damage.
i dont see minmatar or caldari complaining about there weapons systems as they dont need to use cap.
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Ragnar forumwarrior
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
You don't seem to have the slightest idea what this game is about do you? You don't understand PVP, you don't understand game progression, and you obviously disregard all gameplay changes added to EVE to enhance pvp.
Good job for being a retard.
Why dont you in your infinite wisdom explain to me what its about?
Bad job for being a genious.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:41:00 -
[53]
mmm so problem is tanking ships using nos.
/me looks at Kali 2 (or is it revelations 2 now?) with its supposed nos nerf.
Oh and for all your sp's your hyperion setup sucks. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:41:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Goumindong on 30/11/2006 18:42:17
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Earthan We3ll maybe need some balance ( nos nerf?) but poeple remmber if we set up 3 bs squad wirh balsters and 3 bs with nosfs , i bet the balsters guys will win , nossing isnt fast enough...
Remmber what will ahpeen on squad level also not only 1-1
Actually, the nossing BShips would win rather easily. 8 heavy nos drains the capacitor of a Hyperion so fast and so potently that all you need to do after that is to launch drones and wait for them to whittle down the hull so the Hyperion dies.
This happens before the shield is broken on the nos ship, assuming the Hyperion/Blasterthron is the one doing the approach.
Tested this with a Hyperion versus an Abaddon. Didn't reach his armour. Couldn't run (scrambled and webbed). Couldn't do anything, he drained the cap from the cap injector even before I had time to activate a single gun.
So yes, Revelations is the time of the Nosferatu. Without a few (more than one) you're dead.
They would have won just as easily in RMR.
1 vs 1 nos setups are really good. Always have been
I doubt they are as much in small gangs.
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Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:42:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc Oh and for all your sp's your hyperion setup sucks.
Do it better or is your mouth bigger than your wisdome? _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Jago X
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:46:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Jago X on 30/11/2006 18:51:20
Originally by: xeom "Well its not only about Blasters. It is about the tank became that good, that you cant outDPS someone anymore."
Wierd i swore repper ammounts stayed the same.Its only going to take you a bit longer to drill threw your oponnents get over it.
no they didnt ... there are rigs to improve active tanking. All of the new Tier 3 bs also got a tanking bonus. The improvement to hp also gives more time for active tanks to rep in so it improves active (ie dual rep/XL booster) tanking against small gangs. Maybe instead of making comments like 'get over it' which add nothing to the discussion you should spend your time actually reading through the thread.
EDIT : Also i pretty much agree with the op. The problem is that the blasterships now dont do enough damage. TBH get rid of the useless rep bonus on the hype and give us a double damage bonus .Yatrrr
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Krulla
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:24:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Krulla on 30/11/2006 19:24:30
Originally by: Kaylana Syi wtf are you going on about. Neutron hyperion/mega's rip through anything BS sized one on one if you aren't jammed.
I've never seen such a wonderfully well written post. Packed to the rim with content.
He tested it. You're just talking out of your ass.
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:45:00 -
[58]
Ok, so .. before a Gank Mega could rip through a Tank/NOS Domi rather quickly. Now, the Tank/NOS Domi can last long enough to drain the Mega's Cap before its tank is broken.
From the OP's description the Domi won with 10% armor remaining. Given the virtually negligable hull hp (w/no resistances) the Gank Mega didn't exactly lose by much.
My question is: Would you have been able to escape? i.e. - did the Domi have you webbed/scrambled? Because in my mind a maxxed out DPS Battleship vs. a Tanked out Battleship should be pretty much a draw any way you look at it. Your Mega had somewhat of a Tank, and the Domi has somewhat of an offense. So why should the Gank setup win vs. a Tank set up specifically withstand the damage?
If you were unable to get away, even if you tried, then I can see a minor complaint as even a "draw" wasn't possible. But otherwise I don't see what is particularly unbalanced about the specific encounter described. Why should max DPS beat max Tank?
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Benglada
Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:53:00 -
[59]
i fly a nuetron thron and the 50 dps has hardly been noticeable to me. I usually use null though. ---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
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gu o
Amarr DarkStar 1
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Simon Jax Ok, so .. before a Gank Mega could rip through a Tank/NOS Domi rather quickly. Now, the Tank/NOS Domi can last long enough to drain the Mega's Cap before its tank is broken.
From the OP's description the Domi won with 10% armor remaining. Given the virtually negligable hull hp (w/no resistances) the Gank Mega didn't exactly lose by much.
My question is: Would you have been able to escape? i.e. - did the Domi have you webbed/scrambled? Because in my mind a maxxed out DPS Battleship vs. a Tanked out Battleship should be pretty much a draw any way you look at it. Your Mega had somewhat of a Tank, and the Domi has somewhat of an offense. So why should the Gank setup win vs. a Tank set up specifically withstand the damage?
If you were unable to get away, even if you tried, then I can see a minor complaint as even a "draw" wasn't possible. But otherwise I don't see what is particularly unbalanced about the specific encounter described. Why should max DPS beat max Tank?
Because I wanna win every fight!!!!11!one... ME ME ME I win them all, cmon its not fair that I might loose...
(I am joking of course but in all honesty this entire thread is all about that answer... fly amarr like me they are the best!!1)
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