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CCP What will it take for you to get your ISP to fix the LVL3 Router?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
marioman Caldari Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 01:46:00 - [1] Ok, I have patient with you for the last almost 3 months. I am getting to the breaking point here and you need to fix this problem. This is utterly rediculous to get randomly dropped every 5-30 mins. Some times during the day are fine, others its terrible, and I can barely play at all. ae-1-0.bbr1.London1.Level3.net [212.187.128.58] This is the problem. I have contacted my ISP, Verizon, and they say they cannot change the routes to the EVE server. I have emailed the hosting company for that router MULTIPLE times over the last month (also some corpmates have mailed them) with no reply what so ever. CCP the ball is in your court now to get this situated. I'm sick of this. I can't even leave the station. Since September this crap has been going on and I feel I have been very patient and very nice. I'm sorry but I'm running out of both. No it is NOT my connection, as I can have other thing running in the backgroud (streaming radio, Teamspeak, trillian, etc) and NOTHING else gets dropped, only EVE. And my corpmates that do not get dropped when I have them do a tracert, this router isnt in their route. If I use a proxy, like your-freedom.com I do not get dropped at all, because guess why? That router isnt in the route to the server. The only problem I have with using a proxy is because its limited to 65kbit up and down, and also their "free" package drops you every 60 minutes. I shouldnt have to pay for another service to use EVE, because you guys wont get your ISP situated. What happened to the other routes you guys claimed to be adding on the previous hardware upgrades? Seriously, I'm running out of patience and niceness, and am not holding much hope that if this isnt fixed soon I will continue to keep paying for EVE.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:11:00 - [2] IF 118,000 subscribers dont have this problem, but YOU do, then it seems pretty clear where the problem is at ....
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:14:00 - [3] Originally by: Montaire IF 118,000 subscribers dont have this problem, but YOU do, then it seems pretty clear where the problem is at .... It seems pretty clear you haven't trained reading comprehension yet. ---------------- Where are the scan probe BPOs?
oDDiTy V2 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Montaire IF 118,000 subscribers dont have this problem, but YOU do, then it seems pretty clear where the problem is at .... So I take it you didn't read his post then, no? I've had issues with routing before but my ISP has always fixed it or got on the phone with whoever necessary for me quite quickly.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:15:00 - [5] I read the topic. Im familiar with network architecture and how switchs and routers work. Im also certian that if Level 3 has a bad switch, it would bark like a POS low on fuel. Seriously, if tens of thousands of people use this router and only ONE SINGLE PERSON has this problem, its not a problem with the router.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Montaire Im also certian that if Level 3 has a bad switch, it would bark like a POS low on fuel. LMAO. So yea, most people in that situation don't realise its the router, blame the game and quit. //Maya
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Montaire Im also certian that if Level 3 has a bad switch, it would bark like a POS low on fuel. LMAO. So yea, most people in that situation don't realise its the router, blame the game and quit. Can I have their stuff ?
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:20:00 - [8] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/12/2006 02:20:43 You're so funny I think I saw the nice men in white heading your way. ...but seriously, he's identified a possible issue. Mocking dosn't help. //Maya
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:24:00 - [9] He may have, I agree. Yelling at CPP and throwing a temper tantrum isnt going to help anyone. Call Level3, tell them you need to speak to someone about a piece of their equipment thats malfuntioning. Open a trouble ticket. The problem will be solved in 2-3 days. Throwing a screaming-hissy-cow on the forums does nothing.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:25:00 - [10] i'm sitting in the Level 3 DMC at this very moment. There is nothing wrong w/ the London routers
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:30:00 - [11] So, you're in L3 PR then Hank? Interesting. //Maya
marioman Caldari Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Montaire He may have, I agree. Yelling at CPP and throwing a temper tantrum isnt going to help anyone. Call Level3, tell them you need to speak to someone about a piece of their equipment thats malfuntioning. Open a trouble ticket. The problem will be solved in 2-3 days. Throwing a screaming-hissy-cow on the forums does nothing. In case you didnt read it I've emailed them about 1 every 3 days for the last month with no reply what so ever.
marioman Caldari Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:36:00 - [13] Originally by: HankMurphy i'm sitting in the Level 3 DMC at this very moment. There is nothing wrong w/ the London routers Then explain to me how I am right as this very moment getting dropped from EVE every 10 minutes. And only with my connection. If I use a proxy which by-passes the above router I get no problems what so ever.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:38:00 - [14] Call them. 90% of email is spam, so most of it gets ignored. And he's not a PR agent, he's probably just a tech or end user. Like I said, if there was a bad routing table then there would be a LOT of people noticing, not just Marioman. I restate : Call them. Get a ticket going. If you want your problem solved, that will do it. Anything else is complaining to the void.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:40:00 - [15] Originally by: marioman In case you didnt read it I've emailed them about 1 every 3 days for the last month with no reply what so ever. As for a temper tantrum. I feel I have been VERY VERY patient with this Issue as its been happening since September. More patience than I can say for most people. Use a phone. I get absolutely NO help from any company when I go through e-mail. Phone calls tend to get help a bit faster if the issue is them not responding to your e-mails. If calling them gets it fixed you should do that...since you haven't even begun getting it fixed through them (they haven't responded to your e-mails). --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:41:00 - [16] Sure. 1. Your ISP is running a packet shaper that nails you ever once in a while. This would be avoided when you use the proxy. 2. Your PC is on a Zombie Network, and it uses your connection every once in a while. It wont try and use the SSL routing on the anon network though. 3. Someone upstream (not the L3) has a bad router table, probably local ISP. ALL of those would fit the circumstances described. Originally by: marioman Then explain to me how I am right as this very moment getting dropped from EVE every 10 minutes. And only with my connection. If I use a proxy which by-passes the above router I get no problems what so ever.
Torlack	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:41:00 - [17] Quote (mostly): If there was a problem with the router, then a lot of people would be down and it would have been fixed by now. Um, no. I once had to call someone like UUNET to report a looping pair of routers. The site that I couldn't get to? WWW.DELL.COM. Um, nobody goes there. How long was the router having problems? About a week. They took the router out of the route within 15 minutes of my calling.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:42:00 - [18] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/12/2006 02:43:24 I've dealt with L3 before. That's why I'm sure he's in PR. And again, most people don't know what a bad routing table IS. There are plenty of people who have this sort of issue, they just quit after a few days. Once in a rare while, someone complains. And their spam filters are their issue, he's been trying to contact them on a legitimate issue, if they're filtering it they are 100% at fault for that. And of course, you can provide a number for L3 which DOSN'T link you to PR... (3, 2, 1...) //Maya
Torlack	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:42:00 - [19] Oh, and I have also been having problems with London Level3 routers.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Torlack They took the router out of the route within 15 minutes of my calling. Emphasis added.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:46:00 - [21] PR? hell no. i'm a network guy if you really think its an issue. dont just mail them emails directly. If your not one of their customer's they aren't going to respond. If you think* you have an issue, what you need to do is have your ISP open a trouble ticket with level 3. You will likely need to provide some proof of this route being an issue. Remember, its a touchy game as ping and ICMP traffic dont hold priority on most core routers, so a time out may just mean the router had something more important to do. (should only occur at peak times and still is not indicative of saturated link) If there was an issue with that core router, i can assure you there are some VERY high paying customer's out there that would have noticed it by now. I dont see anything crazy and my path to ccp does go through that router occasionally as i have monitored the path multiple times Note: if you run a traceroute and see a very high hop time make sure its a high latency hop (high time sticks and becomes higher till the end of the traceroute) as opposed to an MPLS report to end of route. ie: hop1=50ms, hop2=250ms, hop3=70ms... hop 2 is reporting to the destination IP, not that particular hop alone
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:48:00 - [22] Originally by: marioman Originally by: HankMurphy i'm sitting in the Level 3 DMC at this very moment. There is nothing wrong w/ the London routers Then explain to me how I am right as this very moment getting dropped from EVE every 10 minutes. And only with my connection. If I use a proxy which by-passes the above router I get no problems what so ever. I dont know. How many other routers do you go through before you get there? Are you omnicent and just KNOW it has to be that one? do you have proof of your accusations or just ranting?
Zeko Rena	Posted - 2006.12.01 02:53:00 - [23] Dont use Trillian :(
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2006.12.01 03:26:00 - [24] My route to eve-online. No disconnections here except the ones in known Revelations issues. Tracing route to www.eve-online.com [87.237.39.200] over a maximum of 30 hops: ... 6 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms as0-0.bbr1.sto1.se.eunetip.net [213.192.191.210] 7 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms 213.242.110.161 8 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms ge-0-0-0.mp2.Stockholm1.Level3.net [4.68.96.225] 9 62 ms 63 ms 63 ms ae-1-0.bbr1.London1.Level3.net [212.187.128.58] 10 64 ms 63 ms 63 ms ae-0-55.gar1.London1.Level3.net [4.68.116.139] 11 63 ms 63 ms 63 ms 195.50.91.22 12 64 ms 65 ms 65 ms 87.237.39.254 13 65 ms 65 ms 63 ms 87.237.39.200 As you can see it has the same ip you mention, assuming you're correct, it could be also the leading router to 212.187.128.58 and not that one.
Apolluon	Posted - 2006.12.01 03:43:00 - [25] Repopulate routing tables ftw. If no one else is having the problem, then it isn't an end-point router, which means you can go around it. Contact your ISP on the matter, and see if they'll null the IP of the router you think is bad. L3 had a flaky router in DC, when I tried to contact them on it, they were less than helpful. When I contacted my ISP about it, the problem went away, and traceroutes to the destination magically avoided the router that was having issues. Apolluon (Stating that it isn't your connection isn't really accurate. It's quite a bit more in your territory than CCP's, as it's your data going over your network, that is getting hung up on a router that YOUR ISP is pushing it through.)
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 03:48:00 - [26] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: marioman Originally by: HankMurphy i'm sitting in the Level 3 DMC at this very moment. There is nothing wrong w/ the London routers Then explain to me how I am right as this very moment getting dropped from EVE every 10 minutes. And only with my connection. If I use a proxy which by-passes the above router I get no problems what so ever. I dont know. How many other routers do you go through before you get there? Are you omnicent and just KNOW it has to be that one? do you have proof of your accusations or just ranting? I plain don't believe you. We never ever managed over 34 phone calls to talk to a L3 engineeer. Everyone customer-facing was PR. Most ISP's WILL NOT do anything about this sort of situation unless they have a substantial amount of customers complaining. Indeed, seen UK ISP's kick you onto a slower pipe for bothering their CSR's about "trivial things". The hassle on that incident was one reason I moved on from that job fairly rapidly. //Maya
Xenofur Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 03:59:00 - [27] use this to monitor your connection: http://www.pingplotter.com/freeware.html it will really help you find the problem instead of randomly tracing and fingerpointing.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Maya Rkell I plain don't believe you. We never ever managed over 34 phone calls to talk to a L3 engineeer. Everyone customer-facing was PR. Most ISP's WILL NOT do anything about this sort of situation unless they have a substantial amount of customers complaining. Indeed, seen UK ISP's kick you onto a slower pipe for bothering their CSR's about "trivial things". The hassle on that incident was one reason I moved on from that job fairly rapidly. dont believe me? well, i cant really help you w/ that either. but i'd have to say, based of things i've seen written from you in the past, your not likely a person i'm out to convince. i talk to dozens of customer's everyday. i treat every issue i deal w/ as if there is a problem, and it only takes ONE customer to have me investigate. i dont know who your calling, but you might want to start w/ a NOC. .....And i dont know of one 'PR person' that just talks to ppl to make them happy. Boy, that would be a fun place to work. Just dozens of ppl on the phone lying and telling ppl their isn't an issue until you reach critical mass, then the great and mighty data engineer is called down from his mountain top to clear the route table/whatever. lol, are we in the same reality? We have sales people, and we have technical people. And whats that whole 'kick you onto a slower pipe for bothering their CSR's?' do you live in reality? Networks operate on protocols that dictate paths. People dont go around statically configuring routes for each customer. Not unless your talking about some nickel & dime / mom & pop ISP you get your 56K hook up through. Take of the tin hat, stop reading BOfH and come back down to reality. We aren't a globally successful ISP for nothing. We dont ignore ppl and punish them for opening trouble tickets. and most of all, we are very easy to contact if you are a person that should be calling us.
JamesTalon Caldari Electric Fury Corp	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:23:00 - [29] Cursed Level3, causing my ping to double from around 50ms in Chigago to London.... I should complain to them. Although, then again, I have rarely had connection problems. EVEBay
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:24:00 - [30] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/12/2006 04:26:33 Again, I have personal experience of dealing with L3, and your response does nothing to convince me I was wrong. ".....And i dont know of one 'PR person' that just talks to ppl to make them happy." You know very very few PR people then, bluntly. Or you're PR yourself. De'nial ain't just a River in Egypt. "And whats that whole 'kick you onto a slower pipe for bothering their CSR's?' do you live in reality?" Yes, I do. You evidently don't understand anything about UK ISP's, and this is primae-facie evidence you're PR. ISP's have multiple BT centrals, and chucking high usage and annoying users onto an overloaded small one to convince em to change ISP is downright common. Your reaction is the typical PR flack denial. L3 is well known for being a PITA to deal with for a reason. You can't get hold of the techs to open a trouble ticket in the first place, so yea no punishment heh. And yes, I was a person who "should of been calling". As I said, eventually they just changed from L3, accepted the penalty fees for disruption of service to the end users per the contracts and hooked up with another provider because we had to come to the conclusion that L3 would not act. And yes, "person who should be calling us" - again, you have to make the ISP care and they DON'T. //Maya

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