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Stealth rules modification - bump out of arena and GMs do work for you

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Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:58:00 - [1] Hello ? Does anyone think this makes sense ? Just bump someone out of arena and he gets /heal 0 and you move on in tournament. Why exactly is this allowed now when it wasn't before ? I'd say it deserves an award for worst rules change ever. Note; Has no effect at all on my tactics, I just think it's the dumbest thing I've heard today. http://eve.klaki.net/
darth solo Insurgency	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:59:00 - [2] agreed, its kinda poor and makes for a rubbish fight. d solo. celes apoc kill board
Scythus Aratan Bad Karma.	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:06:00 - [3] Not that it helped them .
Martin Mckenna Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:09:00 - [4] i made a post but it got locked about this exact thing. im not saying the corps that did this are****s just the rule makers need to shoot themself.
Andrew Gunn Frontline Defense Force Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:10:00 - [5] I think most of the people that got insta-ganked by the GMs flew out of the arena on their own. -- EVE-Development Network - Home of the EDK, which is a free, open-source killboard software.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:12:00 - [6] You're right Andrew, that's not what I have a problem with. I have a problem with bumping people out of arena being a viable and permitted tactic. http://eve.klaki.net/
Alkhar	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:15:00 - [7] Fraid your precious Impoc will get bumped out the arena?
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk You're right Andrew, that's not what I have a problem with. I have a problem with bumping people out of arena being a viable and permitted tactic. Whoever is doing this is probably trying to make a point while having a bit of fun. TBH tho, I'd be more concerned about the number of people who lost ships because they crashed. Kali stability 4tw. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
ASIV TRE Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk You're right Andrew, that's not what I have a problem with. I have a problem with bumping people out of arena being a viable and permitted tactic. Yeah and damps are really fun to watch, hmmmm lets watch a fight where one side shoots and the other doesnt. It was never in the rules so the "RULES" haven't been changed.
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:44:00 - [10] Because Tyrrax "Throw-a-match-to-avoid-fighting-BoB-then-getting-pwned-by-their-short-handed-team-because-I-wouldn't-let-their-logistics-reconnect" Thorrk is the king of tourney ethics. Originally by: Seleene Client - "You smash them." MC - "Ooooh! Good! Like to smash!"
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:50:00 - [11] I think it is a good rule. Never before have we seen so many different tactics in a tournament as we have now and as a viewer it is quite enjoyable. Bumping just adds another aspect to the fighting and you can counter it so I don't see a problem. The biggest problem I think is that we have seen alot of people crash/CTD which is crap tbh. Celes/Toxin vs BOB
ASIV TRE Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq I think it is a good rule. Never before have we seen so many different tactics in a tournament as we have now and as a viewer it is quite enjoyable. Bumping just adds another aspect to the fighting and you can counter it so I don't see a problem. The biggest problem I think is that we have seen alot of people crash/CTD which is crap tbh. Yep it also gives something else to use against damps without having to use damps yourself. Like you say and Sel above more people have lost ships to either CTDing or just wondering out of the arena than being bumped.
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:55:00 - [13] The problem I have with the rule is not that MC used it on us. But the fact that just around 24 hours prior to that we were told it was NOT ALLOWED by someone involved with the tournament. And you guys are correct it does make for a less than enjoyable fight.
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:57:00 - [14] Originally by: SATAN The problem I have with the rule is not that MC used it on us. But the fact that just around 24 hours prior to that we were told it was NOT ALLOWED by someone involved with the tournament. And you guys are correct it does make for a less than enjoyable fight. We were told categorically 48 hours before it was allowed, this was from all tournament directors, 24 hours before it was reconfirmed. Communication breakdown ftw :)
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:06:00 - [15] As far as I understand the arena is a 60k Radius with 30k start distance between teams. Presuming the teams start at equal distance across the center point that leaves 45k between them and the edge of the arena. 45K is a hell of a long way to bump sombody, so I doubt thats the enite story as far as that is concerned. As for contestants leaving under there own power, they knew the rules, and I know that if I was fighting I would be watching my distance from the center like a hawk for fear of going outwith the bounds. I just dont see how people could still continue to fall victim to this after the first few times. Yes, you could argue that they are focusing more on fighting and I understand that sometime these things go un-noticed during fights, but I would have thought having seen so many fight been lost entirley due to Team members leaving the arena it would be sticking out in peoples minds by now. Hope we see less of this tomorrow... -----
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Chronus26 As far as I understand the arena is a 60k Radius with 30k start distance between teams. Presuming the teams start at equal distance across the center point that leaves 45k between them and the edge of the arena. 45K is a hell of a long way to bump sombody, so I doubt thats the enite story as far as that is concerned. As for contestants leaving under there own power, they knew the rules, and I know that if I was fighting I would be watching my distance from the center like a hawk for fear of going outwith the bounds. I just dont see how people could still continue to fall victim to this after the first few times. Yes, you could argue that they are focusing more on fighting and I understand that sometime these things go un-noticed during fights, but I would have thought having seen so many fight been lost entirley due to Team members leaving the arena it would be sticking out in peoples minds by now. Hope we see less of this tomorrow... Actually i would advise people to try bumping a traversing ship, 45km :), it really is not that easy.
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:26:00 - [17] If you don't want to get bumped out I suggest you web your own ships. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Metacannibal Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:31:00 - [18] where is this a stealth rulechange? fact: - rules state that leaving the area gets you popped myth: - rules stating anything about the way someone leaves the arena, i.e. crash off warp due to ctd/mommy pullin basement plug, bump, holy supernova of doom so whats the fuss about? this tourney has rules to encourage outside the box thinking. its sad that whenever someone comes up with something fresh that the majority did not anticipate although clearly not ruled out by the previously announced rules, people come up and say "WHINE WHINE NOT FAIR". look at the fights, apart from a good # of "WOW WHAT THE HELL DID THEY THINK, THAT WONT WORK EVER!" things, we did see a few very nice interpretations of the rules such as the 4x bc thing, the ishkur wtfpwnzoring the megathron and a bunch of other bits of great entertainment for the alert pvper. the whole shippopping thing might be annoying for the players involved, but its great entertainment, which is what counts. i do think though, that having a "underage" commentator is not the best idea, nor is the britpop haircut of certain people with blue t-shirts great job overall though!
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Sivona Originally by: Chronus26 As far as I understand the arena is a 60k Radius with 30k start distance between teams. Presuming the teams start at equal distance across the center point that leaves 45k between them and the edge of the arena. 45K is a hell of a long way to bump sombody, so I doubt thats the enite story as far as that is concerned. As for contestants leaving under there own power, they knew the rules, and I know that if I was fighting I would be watching my distance from the center like a hawk for fear of going outwith the bounds. I just dont see how people could still continue to fall victim to this after the first few times. Yes, you could argue that they are focusing more on fighting and I understand that sometime these things go un-noticed during fights, but I would have thought having seen so many fight been lost entirley due to Team members leaving the arena it would be sticking out in peoples minds by now. Hope we see less of this tomorrow... Actually i would advise people to try bumping a traversing ship, 45km :), it really is not that easy. Yeah I agree... I've tried to bump people many-a-time and if there moving I just zooooom right past... I fail at bumping. -----
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Hoshi If you don't want to get bumped out I suggest you web your own ships. That really doesn't help at all. Except making it easier for the hostiles to "hit" you. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Eleese Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:13:00 - [21] Originally by: dalman Originally by: Hoshi If you don't want to get bumped out I suggest you web your own ships. That really doesn't help at all. Except making it easier for the hostiles to "hit" you. shhhh ;)
Kyguard Fire Mandrill Astrophobics	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Hoshi If you don't want to get bumped out I suggest you web your own ships. Logic alone will tell you that this does't work! === It's great being Amarr, aint it?(tm) [Insert badass sig to match ego here]
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Crovan Because Tyrrax "Throw-a-match-to-avoid-fighting-BoB-then-getting-pwned-by-their-short-handed-team-because-I-wouldn't-let-their-logistics-reconnect" Thorrk is the king of tourney ethics. So true and so funny. Blog
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Seleene Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk You're right Andrew, that's not what I have a problem with. I have a problem with bumping people out of arena being a viable and permitted tactic. Whoever is doing this is probably trying to make a point while having a bit of fun. TBH tho, I'd be more concerned about the number of people who lost ships because they crashed. Kali stability 4tw. Shhhhh, don't mention the fact that it's ridiculous to try hold a tourny this soon after patch day... the trolls will be out in force! Blog
Prior Art	Posted - 2006.12.02 01:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Kyguard Originally by: Hoshi If you don't want to get bumped out I suggest you web your own ships. Logic alone will tell you that this does't work! Great! You should rename your alliance to Astrophysics... (no kidding)
merc999 Caldari Turbulent Subversion	Posted - 2006.12.02 01:13:00 - [26] Bumping out of arena a valid tactic? Bumping is very much part of Eve PvP , wether trying to get a opponents ship out of dock range in Empire, or trying to stop that stabbed freighter/Battleship warping... It is not a case of simply aiming at the oponents ship and letting fly, to bump someone "succesfully" eg: make the move/turn exactly where you want them too, takes a lot of practise and a fair amount manual piloting. I see no reason why a tactic used in PvP should be frowned upon in a PvP championship. MERC999 Public Relations Director TBSV Keeping Empire and Syndicate ship builders in business
Excesse The Priory	Posted - 2006.12.02 01:13:00 - [27] Edited by: Excesse on 02/12/2006 01:13:38 Not that I'm taking part, but allowing bumping did keep me laughing throughout the MC fight this evening. One huginn gone within the first 30s and 1bn of faction BS gone pop because you missed your drive-by? Classic stuff, long may it continue. :D Edit: Although if the impoc gets bumped to death... boy, there are gonna be some tears.
jamesw Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.02 01:16:00 - [28] I'm not a fan of bumping being in , but that said - 1 huginn and that machariel was TOAST -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 05:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Seleene TBH tho, I'd be more concerned about the number of people who lost ships because they crashed. Kali stability 4tw. Shhhhh, don't mention the fact that it's ridiculous to try hold a tourny this soon after patch day... the trolls will be out in force! Talking to your self again?
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.02 06:18:00 - [30] Originally by: merc999 Bumping out of arena a valid tactic? Bumping is very much part of Eve PvP , wether trying to get a opponents ship out of dock range in Empire, or trying to stop that stabbed freighter/Battleship warping... It is not a case of simply aiming at the oponents ship and letting fly, to bump someone "succesfully" eg: make the move/turn exactly where you want them too, takes a lot of practise and a fair amount manual piloting. I see no reason why a tactic used in PvP should be frowned upon in a PvP championship. And is there molten lava on TQ or GMs standing by to /heal 0 you ? How is that part of EVE's pvp exactly ? http://eve.klaki.net/
Yurito Amarr Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.02 06:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Seleene Kali stability 4tw. here's a patch! here's a tournament! here are the petitions O_o
Xenny Lee Minmatar The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.02 07:18:00 - [32] Edited by: Xenny Lee on 02/12/2006 07:20:50 Well a viable tactic and I think what spelled MC doom is to back out to about 50 km from center to avoid having someone properly orbiting you... (I believe the Celestis was doing this to dampen the team at "some" distance) Step in these HACs and cruisers that possibly have full snakes and can close distances like a mad man... hit orbit 12 to avoid Webs and thats what you get........ If your sitting that close to the edge then you know its a risk.... I would recommend for future tourneys to keep the "tight" quick fighting but avoid things like the Ishkur incident to start the fight with that same radius, but then open it up to say 120k once say 4 ships have died to leave some space for some fancy flying and avoid having something like people resorting to bumping at the end of a fight to beat an uber tank. Edit: After all is said and done though... No faction loot lost (nice rule) tomorow all the teams that got sucked out to this will have basically learned and adapted and while for some teams this will be a harsh hill to come back up from I dont see this as a full loss for anyone.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 07:23:00 - [33] Edited by: Seleene on 02/12/2006 07:26:02 Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk And is there molten lava on TQ or GMs standing by to /heal 0 you ? How is that part of EVE's pvp exactly ? On THIS part, I do agree. The Heal 0 thing, and then whole "fish bowl" arena is just ridiculous. I understand it's done to encourage closer-range fights, but it in no way mirrors 'true' PvP. I would much prefer a broader playing field, with multiple warp-to points that would encourage even more insane tactics. Bottom line - you should have to destroy your enemy, not get a GM to do it for you. It's debatable that we would have lost the match against BE had the ships involved been allowed to actually fight each other to the death, but neither side is crying about the outcome. We did what we did to make a couple points: 1.) We dislike the rule set and wanted to show just how insane it can be. Seriously, as funny as some might think it is, how the hell do you write up the in game fiction stating that an Imperial Apocolypse crossed an invisible ***** like in space and just VANISHED? It's crazy. So, with that in mind... 2.) MC went even crazier. It was fun! Shin and Pookie were ing themselve during the match and then laughing thier asses off on MC TS afterwards. Just hearing them say, "Holy **, that was insane!" was worth the isk of the ships. A lot of people have asked about the Machariel. Max Speed was right at 7,200. The ship was capable of doing a 180 degree turn in 4 km. The pilot had a Full Grade Snake set (bought specifically for this) According to our pilot, he was 55km from LeMonde when he got Heal 0'd. What with lag and all though, who reallly knows? We did this on a lark, because we could afford to do it and to have some fun. We hope it was entertaining. We have more to follow. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.02 08:07:00 - [34] I was quite a bit out of synch when I was looting the cans after our fight, gotta take that into account in laggy situations like this with stupid eyecandy clouds that get in the way About my impoc, as I said bumping has no effect on my tactics at all. I'd be amazed if anyone could bump it out of arena with the setup and style we're using. Maybe if you had an undampable huginn with 2 webs and a machariel but no way without both. http://eve.klaki.net/
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:20:00 - [35] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk About my impoc, as I said bumping has no effect on my tactics at all. I'd be amazed if anyone could bump it out of arena with the setup and style we're using. Maybe if you had an undampable huginn with 2 webs and a machariel but no way without both. Ty, web or no web, if that Mach hits your ship at 7.2 km a sec or any fraction thereof, you will go for one hell of a ride. But feel free to think otherwise and bring it into the 'arena'. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:12:00 - [36] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I was quite a bit out of synch when I was looting the cans after our fight, gotta take that into account in laggy situations like this with stupid eyecandy clouds that get in the way About my impoc, as I said bumping has no effect on my tactics at all. I'd be amazed if anyone could bump it out of arena with the setup and style we're using. Maybe if you had an undampable huginn with 2 webs and a machariel but no way without both. Is this an agreement to bring the impoc out against our bumpa-smarta-mach :D
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:16:00 - [37] /tr instead of heal 0.0 That's all. P.s. MC - Less hate, more love :( ---- All you do is bark. You never meow.
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Raem Civrie /tr instead of heal 0.0 That's all. P.s. MC - Less hate, more love :( People would just drive their faction ships out if they were losing. Raem tbh we arn't the ones complaining We really dislike a lot about this tournament, so we are going out to have a lot of fun and try and entertain. The video work didn't really do the tactic much justice to be honest :(
Yalson Caldari Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:33:00 - [39] And you anticipated those camera problems, of course, and wisely chose to install a FRAPS camera in the front turret of that Machariel, right? I mean... right?!
xBounty Hunterx Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:39:00 - [40] Its a dirty trick, but it adds to the excitement. If i saw someone coming towards me to bump me, i would get to as close to the edge as possible and turn my MWD on but stay still. then when hes nearby just double click somewhere so he misses you and flies out of the area and boom. Who here wouldnt pay 50mil to see that?
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Yalson And you anticipated those camera problems, of course, and wisely chose to install a FRAPS camera in the front turret of that Machariel, right? I mean... right?! He was in a computer which couldn't run fraps :( The eos pilot does have fraps i dont know how good it is. A lot of our frapsing ability has gone with all these random CTD's from kali we've tried to cut all the other programs we run so we reduce chance of CTD mid fight which might ruin the spectacle even more
Yalson Caldari Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:46:00 - [42] Good point, Sivona. Is some added video footage really worth the additional risk of a CTD? Probably not, heck, if I was flying that Mach I'd probably refused having to worry about fraps as well. CCP supports all those ingame videos -- wouldn't it be nice if each team would be allowed to bring one additional pilot in a cloaked polaris frigate for the tournament? Some of the videos out there are incredibly creative, this might be another win-win situation. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still shocked about a smart-bombing Mach. My dream battleship, the one I'll never be able to afford... using SBs! What's the world come to...
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Yalson Good point, Sivona. Is some added video footage really worth the additional risk of a CTD? Probably not, heck, if I was flying that Mach I'd probably refused having to worry about fraps as well. CCP supports all those ingame videos -- wouldn't it be nice if each team would be allowed to bring one additional pilot in a cloaked polaris frigate for the tournament? Some of the videos out there are incredibly creative, this might be another win-win situation. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still shocked about a smart-bombing Mach. My dream battleship, the one I'll never be able to afford... using SBs! What's the world come to... There was a good reason for the smartbombs. We are getting fraps running on the mach from now on, its not that expensive tbh and we think the vids that could be made from it makes it worth the risk (seeing as we are doing this for entertainment anyway)
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.03 08:14:00 - [44] I liked it. It shows ability of MC to think outside the box. But, if Shin Ra is right - then its... well...
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:17:00 - [45] Possible explanation: All ships going into the tournament are rigged by the tourney organisers with explosive charges linked to the beacon in the center of the arena. When the ECM burst is fired this also activates the charges for 15 minutes - go out of range of the beacon during this time and they detonate destroying the ship utterly. I do think it would be nice to see a slightly larger arena combined with the current starting positions though. Zarch AlDain
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:24:00 - [46] Sumo wrestling, anyone? - EVE is sick.

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