Back when I started in 2008, new players already got a skillpoint package depending on the choice of school they made on character creation. I believe it was somewhere along the lines of 600k sp or something. Depending on the school however and on what one found worth doing in eve, those packages were sometimes rather useless.

I personally don't believe in new players. It always turns out to be just a new mining alt of an old player.

PS : Remaps every 6 months might be helpful as well :D

I think he means skill remaps, not attribute remaps.

No, I was talking attribute remaps. Having a completely messed up mapping for a whole year can really suck when you flip flop trying to pick up higher base skills ( drones, ships, engineering, social ). Planning for 6 months is much easier and less punishing for a change in direction as planning for a whole year. Yes, new players get 2 bonus remaps, but most new players don't plan that far ahead.

In that case, 6 months wouldn't help much. With the 2 bonus remaps, they can flip every four months in their first year, and once they're all used up, they're hardly new players any more.

Quite true, if they don't use 3 remaps in the first few months, then sit on a bad mapping for the next 8-10 months. I would actually say a more "newb" friendly system would be

Dynamic mapping for first 2-3 months ( always best map )
0 bonus remaps
Remap every 6 months

This way they don't have to map at all for the first 2-3 months, once that period is up, the opportunity system can guide them by making a recommendation based on their skill queue and show the difference mappings make with respect to their queue and items in it ( a little bad->good bar for each skill to show how that mapping is for that skill set ). Then 3 months after that they can remap again, and again every 6 months after that.

During the "childhood" of a new player, there is a higher want to flip between skill sets, once you get to higher SP, the need to remap becomes less, however setting it to odd intervals just makes the system confusing ( ie. 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 year, 3 year.. ) even if that would be a better way..

You should start the game with at least one level of propulsion jamming, afterburner and microwarpdrive. That's pretty much all the extra skills a brand new player needs.

You should start the game with at least one level of propulsion jamming, afterburner and microwarpdrive. That's pretty much all the extra skills a brand new player needs.

First, if they increase starting SP all existing characters should gain that same amount in bonus SP. I've been training skills for years and this skill system is the most god awful, obnoxious, grindy skill mechanic in any game I've ever played. It galls me that I would have spent $15 a month all these years just to see newbies get free SP I never got.

Second, having to rebalance starting SP *yet again* (because they added double speed training for new characters years ago, because the skill system is hard and poor newbs) just shows that the skill system in EVE is so borked beyond all sense or reason, that they should just outright trash it. Get rid of it. No skills, they are all garbage, just let everyone use any ship or weapon they want. The game would be more fun this way.

are todays noobs worse than when everyone posting on here were noobs?

we all managed to get through it (to varying degrees of success)

surely it is all part of the learning process and benefits the long term.

I've been playing a year, i have a red killboard, im crap at pvp and im still learning new things about fits, flying ships etc- thats what i like about eve

Can't see why you would want to use 3 remaps that quickly.

I used one within a few days, max. in intelligence and the rest in perception, made quite a difference to the training queue.

Based it on all the books I thought I needed to learn and the skills I had already. Looked at the multipliers of all those skills and that gave me what I thought was the best way to proceed. I'm happy with that decision and choice.

Still got 2 remaps left and I can't see me changing the attributes for sometime to come, as it's only going to be really necessary from what I can see when I decide to get heavily into T2 ships because of willpower and the fact by then I shouldn't need to invest as much into intelligence.

But I'm not really taking a side on this issue because if I had more remaps I'd probably end up collecting them but on the other hand for someone that does make a mistake, after 6 months they would be able to rectify that mistake. Either way it wouldn't effect me. Also I can see a possible issue if someone buys a character from the character bazaar that has the wrong attributes set for what they want to continue training with.

My first toon had a horrible map for the role I decided to take after leaving a corp ( was trying to get into their doctrine faster, hence burning through a couple maps ) and was stuck with it for 6 months. It can happen for various reasons, however this thread is more about how to help new players while not being of any advantage to vets setting up task specific alts ( target mapping and financial resources, I can get a freighter pilot with some decent tank skills in about 3 weeks and still have a bonus remap ). What I mentioned did not require giving them more SP or giving everyone more SP, it just allows them to be more efficient during the first part of the game when they are trying to climb tthe EVE learning curve.

First, if they increase starting SP all existing characters should gain that same amount in bonus SP. I've been training skills for years and this skill system is the most god awful, obnoxious, grindy skill mechanic in any game I've ever played. It galls me that I would have spent $15 a month all these years just to see newbies get free SP I never got.

Second, having to rebalance starting SP *yet again* (because they added double speed training for new characters years ago, because the skill system is hard and poor newbs) just shows that the skill system in EVE is so borked beyond all sense or reason, that they should just outright trash it.

This idea is god awful and spawned from the minds of peeps that have no clue how this sht works.

Closing the skill gap between new players and older players is a myth and will end up someone losing an eye.

You see it every time someone that is just starting has the mind set of "Bigger and Better", and buys their way into a "Character",(it is not a friggin TOON, it is a CHARACTER, ffs) and falls flat on their face screaming HAX!! because some dude with half the SP that took the time to stick it out whoops his/her/it's ass.

You see it everyday, someone with 100+ mil sp bought character, and has no friggin clue how to play the game let alone fit a ship properly short of selecting all in the hanger and pushing "Fit Ship".

The only idea that remotely might make sense to me is using the tutorials to give levels in ship skills. Not just the actual skillbooks. But where you must accomplish something related to the field to gain L1-3 in certain fields matching what youd like to do or are interested in. These tasks shouldnt be too long but long enough that they might be prohibitive to using them to level vet toons quickly. Mostly out of sheer boredom for the vet to do mundane tasks. They should come with some instruction as well as to some of the basic mechanics of the game.

I used to play Falcon 4.0 years ago. Its an F-16 simulator. The manual for the game is hundreds of pages long, extremely technical and designed to mirror the actual experience of flying the real fighter. The complexity of it is vast and huge and the manual was partly written by a real F-16 fighter pilot. Doing the tutorials is quite a lot like flight school.

In Eve what we fail to realize is that our characters, long before they dreamed of being capsuleers, lived in a world and reality that had all this tech and abilities. Even before you thought of being a capsuleer you would learn about your world and its mechanics as related to space travel. It would be a normal part of growing up. Nevermind the fact that before most people wouldve gained a ship or access to fly it there wouldve been a training time necessary to understand more basic flight training and game mechanics.

Tbh if done right this ground school would be a perfect avenue for avatar gameplay coupled with actual space flight. Tbh if you made it in depth enough you could make this a hand holding program for those that want it. A very rigid and structured environment, very "themepark" if you will. Where you could answer questions on game mechanics in avatar classrooms against NPCs or even other students. To "graduate" at the top of your class. Using a mix of avatar classroom and real world testing in Tranquility you could create a means of giving players an in depth understanding of game mechanics as they apply to Eve as well as interesting or fun things to do. With the rewards being SP levels (L1-3) and the prestige of place in a class.

To some vets itd be boring enough and take enough time that the grind through it wouldnt be worth the time or effort SP wise. Others might even learn a thing or two they might not have known.


Just a thought

... The point of this thread as I understood it ( and the only reason I posted to it ) was to suggest a way to help line new players up out of the gates. Not to have them start half way down the track.

To some people that's just giving them SP, to me it's teaching them how to use SP and the system as a whole without it taking the first 3 weeks learning how to undock and dock back up.

But doing something about the skill gap is more about perception. More oftne than not, it is perception that matters. If at some point the perception for new players that competing with older players is so hopeless, then the game will wither from lack of newcomers.

The solution of accelerating skills time for some basic skills is also viable, as well as the ones about only getting these skills increase via the opportunities system. These are good thoughts to address this evergrowing gap.

I agree with this post.
The hardest thing about my first few months in eve hasn't been that I'm lacking skill points, it's actually finding the information on the core mechanics of the game. The official wiki is terrible in contrast to the EveUni one. That is something that should change unless they are going to officially endorse eve uni.

The hardest thing about my first few months in eve hasn't been that I'm lacking skill points, it's actually finding the information on the core mechanics of the game. The official wiki is terrible in contrast to the EveUni one. That is something that should change unless they are going to officially endorse eve uni.

You seem to be a bit angry about the term, one of those things you hear enough you start using it ( or get militant against it ). Apologies for causing much distress.

The rest of your post I agree with. There should be no pay to win SP method, last thing we need is everyone in capitals and having no idea what a "tank" is other than their VISA to replace the loss with another garbage fit ship they shouldn't be in without a mechanic understanding on the level of that ship. The point of this thread as I understood it ( and the only reason I posted to it ) was to suggest a way to help line new players up out of the gates. Not to have them start half way down the track. To some people that's just giving them SP, to me it's teaching them how to use SP and the system as a whole without it taking the first 3 weeks learning how to undock and dock back up.

The point of this thread is suggesting a reduction (and not eliminating) the skill gaps as the technologies of ships in Eve continue to increase.
It is not about getting cyno alts faster or anything to that effect. In fact if steps can be taken to limit the interest of this for already established players, so much the better.



I do not disagree with that. Educating new players is critical.
But doing something about the skill gap is more about perception. More oftne than not, it is perception that matters. If at some point the perception for new players that competing with older players is so hopeless, then the game will wither from lack of newcomers.

The solution of accelerating skills time for some basic skills is also viable, as well as the ones about only getting these skills increase via the opportunities system. These are good thoughts to address this evergrowing gap.