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Allantia
Caldari
FW Inc
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:02:00 -
[31]
I would love to see the day that local could be removed from EVE, but unfortunately it would require the overhaul of more than a few gameplay mechanics, and I doubt CCP is willing to make such large changes.
Besides, judging from the changes in the most recent patch, I would hazard a guess that the Devs disagree with you on the "lameness" of local. 
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Kun'mi
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:17:00 -
[32]
it would be a bit cooler, not knowing what is in the system with you (empty or 20 man pirate blob?)
At the same time, local is an essential tool for low sec and 0.0 pvp. It also works both ways. You can see who is in local to kill them, but you can also run away from someone you see come into local.
Removing local would just make things harder for everyone (though as stated, it may provide a sense of unpredictability and suspense to the game)
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BoBoZoBo
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:27:00 -
[33]
Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 04/12/2006 03:28:03
 Originally by: Oedus Caro
There are good reasons on either side of the debate... In my opinion, the solution is quite simple:
Remove Local channels from those systems having security below 0.5 - for the die-hard role players, think of it as a CONCORD service, just like gate security and system policing. That way high-traffic systems at the heart of empire retain that "community" feel, and low-sec becomes more anonymous, as it should be.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You want people to feel like a community.. cool.. I am all for LOCAL in 0.5 and above.
But PLEASE get rid of it in 0.0 and below...
I mean.. How can I truly role play a covert ops ship when people know I am there!!!.
It really makes no sence and is counterintuitive to the direction eve is going.
Arent we getting voice chat anyway?
=========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.04 04:32:00 -
[34]
Great, remove local, I'm all for it. Provided we get a proper scanning system in it's place. I want scans to be relativistic (only move at luminal speeds), scans to highlight the person trying to scan (massive pulse of EM would make you stand out) and the ability to use my gang mates or probes/drones to triangulate a scanning person's position. I want the ability to blow out chaff fields and drop dummy beacons to confuse people's sensors. Oh, and I want system wide or at least enormous asteroid belts.
But, most people I know calling for local's removal don't actually want a system like this. Because a system like this would actually make their job really really hard. If you were a pirate, the miners would easily safe/dock when they detected your scanner emissions. Alliances would instantly see the idiot who jumps into system and launches an omnidirectional scan without ever revealing their own positions. To pirate, or raid, you'd actually have to be really really clever about it. Which would be awesome and take a lot of skill. But I don't think it's quite what those calling for local's removal have in mind.
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Troy Knight
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Posted - 2006.12.04 04:53:00 -
[35]
Originally by: James Duar
Great, remove local, I'm all for it. Provided we get a proper scanning system in it's place. I want scans to be relativistic (only move at luminal speeds), scans to highlight the person trying to scan (massive pulse of EM would make you stand out) and the ability to use my gang mates or probes/drones to triangulate a scanning person's position. I want the ability to blow out chaff fields and drop dummy beacons to confuse people's sensors. Oh, and I want system wide or at least enormous asteroid belts.
But, most people I know calling for local's removal don't actually want a system like this. Because a system like this would actually make their job really really hard. If you were a pirate, the miners would easily safe/dock when they detected your scanner emissions. Alliances would instantly see the idiot who jumps into system and launches an omnidirectional scan without ever revealing their own positions. To pirate, or raid, you'd actually have to be really really clever about it. Which would be awesome and take a lot of skill. But I don't think it's quite what those calling for local's removal have in mind.
Actually the whole idea sounds good to me. Pirates job isn't that hard to begin with, especially their ganking abilities. The scanning method you proposed makes alot of sense, and I'd support that. This game has made it real easy for Pirates to be pirates and real hard for those who aren't pirates and try to solo-fly around or are forced to because they know nobody or anybody they know isn't available.
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.04 05:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
Quote:
Yes, it has everything to do with that, because anyone stupid enough to chat would be kicked from any corp with a clue.
And that's one of many points.
Here's another: Risk/rewards allready makes 0.0 marginally viable for many players, the removal of local will lead to many leaving, and others sitting newb alts in shuttles at the gates, and logging whenever an enemy turns up. So you'll never ever see their miners.
How does removing local make 0.0 less viable? You can't see people, and people can't see you the moment they jump in. How many random gank squads will go around and scan every system from one end to the other just to kill a lone miner? Answer: very few. Removing local benefits the lone miner who would otherwise be hunted down.
And you can have your "sense of community" (lol) after you ambush someone, or when you're not in any danger of exposing yourself, or simply by joining specific channels for socializing instead of local.
From what I can see from your other posts, you seem to be very tense tonight Maya. Maybe you should take a break for a while
Ganksquads after lone miners aren't even close to being the problem.
If you remove local, you remove the one tool you have for spotting a hostile fleet bent on penetrating to your home systems and trashing ALL your support echelons.
They can warp through and be in your central system without so much as raising a pip on the radarùeven the starmap's active pilots only shows an average of the last 30 mins: a 60 pilot fleet that takes 30 seconds to cross the system and get out might show as one or two pilots in system.
Yes, you can have scouts sitting on the bottleneck gates into your region 23/7. But how is that fun? Who the heck would volunteer for that? Eve is a game, people play to have fun, not to sit around on sentry duty. There's a reason the Sunday comics make fun of soldiers falling asleep on sentry duty, even today; it sure as heck ain't because they've been exhausted by fun-ness overload.
If you want to remove local, you have to come up with some other VIABLE alternative that people can use to spot hostiles. End of story. Now stop bishing for it until you have some ideas on that front!
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Niccolado Starwalker
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Posted - 2006.12.04 05:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
Local as an intelligence tool is incredibly lame.
Removing it will make the game more challenging for both hunter and prey.
It'll be easier to hide, and harder to spot people sneaking.
It'll make a real profession out of recon, surveillance and spying, and make ambushes viable.
There is absolutely zero reason for local to exist. It benefits no one but the very extreme carebear or very extreme lazy-pirate.
Just remove it already.
It is difficult enough really getting people into low-sec an deep space, if you should not make it a hundred time worse by removing it. I say leave it. The pirates have lots of tools at hand anyway without having to ask for removal of such a great tool for everyone.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
The Guardian Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:07:00 -
[38]
I see no reason to remove local.
If you remove local the game's population I think would plummet. Can the game sustain the loss of half its population. Over half the game's population is probably in the 'carebear' fashion that many scream about it. Like it or not their money is helping to keep the game going.
Removing local would only benefit one group of people, pirates and that's it.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:12:00 -
[39]
The way local works right now ruins the whole hiding thing in EVE.
The chat gives out a ton of information and that ruins any surprises. The moment people see someone jump into local they jump to their safespot or dock (just like before) and wait for them to pass.
A lot of people would lose more ships and a lot of people would get more kills if local didn't automatically give info.
I don't like the idea of automatically detecting ships entering a system because that defeats the purpose of removing local's intelligence effect. Maybe if there was a probe you could drop within 20km of a gate to get information when someone jumps in, sure.
Whatever - I don't know what their plans are to do with local because if anything they gave it a super boost this patch. I'm all for seeing standings in local if it means getting rid of all those names in my addres book hehe.
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Sgt Napalm
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:12:00 -
[40]
How about...no?
K tanks bye
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Lisa Lightyear
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:21:00 -
[41]
IĈm not sure if you guys realise this, but people who live in 0.0 enjoy PVP'ing and having fleet fights, without local these things would simply not happen anymore.
We have defence channels, we direct forces towards systems where hostiles are spotted in local, we engage them, they engage us, and we have fun.
This is how we find each other in the middle of no-where.
If CCP ever seriously consider removing this so empire players can come in and farm 0.0 space free of risk, IĈll probably end up letting my account lapse.
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Kiyano
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:24:00 -
[42]
The problem with removing local is that it only makes a small percentage happy and annoys the greater community. So to put it simply, do a poll and come back with sufficent numbers or it wont happen.
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Lithalnas
Amarr
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.12.04 06:58:00 -
[43]
without local, how could we talk smack?
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Cadet Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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DiuxDium
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.04 07:02:00 -
[44]
I like this idea ALOT. Remove local, keep the ability to chat. Just remove the "Character" selection from local chat, easy as can be. Loads of fun.
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Unknown Subject
Sound of Silence
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Posted - 2006.12.04 07:35:00 -
[45]
This is the first "remove local" thread where the arguement makes some valid points. I think low sec systems should have local removed, or at least have it like the help channel, you only show up if you talk. This would add some flavour to 0.0 and make pirates work a little harder.
And there is no community via local in 0.0. There are friends and there are targets. I dont ever remember having a good old chat with someone neutral or red in local, i just tried finding them to kill them. It would certainly make people pay a bit more attention while travelling thru 0.0. Some flaws but some benifits. I think it would be fairly balanced.
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Xorv
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Posted - 2006.12.04 07:42:00 -
[46]
From my understanding it isn't a question of if CCP removes Local as an inteligence gathering tool, only when. CCP has already stated that the intend to change Local and that Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's only for chat.
From my personal experience, once I learned the hard way and kept local up on my screen in it's own window I was 100% safe ratting in 0.0. Which is nice for me ratting, or mining if I ever did that, but it's really bad gameplay for a PvP game. Anyway, shout and scream all you like, we're all entitled to an opinion, but some time in the near future expect Local to go.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.04 08:26:00 -
[47]
Removing local straight does nothing but favor pirates, and hurts everyone else. Asteroid belts are small, discrete targets. It is guaranteed that anyone not a pirate in system is at one of them. All the pirate has to do is warp from belt to belt and then pop the miner/ratter when he finds one.
The scanner is not a defense against this, it does not have the range, and frankly, clicking scan repeatedly for hours while doing something else that is also nominally pretty uninteresting is not my idea of fun.
See above for how local could go and something more awesome replace it. But of course, that wouldn't favor the pirates so less of them clamor for it.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.12.04 08:32:00 -
[48]
Compromise: make local constellation.
And remove those bloody standing tags.
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Lisa Lightyear
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Posted - 2006.12.04 08:33:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Xorv
From my understanding it isn't a question of if CCP removes Local as an inteligence gathering tool, only when. CCP has already stated that the intend to change Local and that Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's only for chat.
 Well...I can't wait to play eve blindfolded.
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Doxs Roxs
White Wolves Defence league
The OSS
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Posted - 2006.12.04 08:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
Quote:
Yes, it has everything to do with that, because anyone stupid enough to chat would be kicked from any corp with a clue.
And that's one of many points.
Here's another: Risk/rewards allready makes 0.0 marginally viable for many players, the removal of local will lead to many leaving, and others sitting newb alts in shuttles at the gates, and logging whenever an enemy turns up. So you'll never ever see their miners.
How does removing local make 0.0 less viable? You can't see people, and people can't see you the moment they jump in. How many random gank squads will go around and scan every system from one end to the other just to kill a lone miner? Answer: very few. Removing local benefits the lone miner who would otherwise be hunted down.
And you can have your "sense of community" (lol) after you ambush someone, or when you're not in any danger of exposing yourself, or simply by joining specific channels for socializing instead of local.
From what I can see from your other posts, you seem to be very tense tonight Maya. Maybe you should take a break for a while
Are you even aware of the new scan probe changes?
Imagine this:
Ganksquad scout jumps into system, pops a probe and a bit more then a minute later knows if there is someone within 48AU, and to boot there is a good chance that the scout will get a direct jump in point to any mission runners since the new probes have a much better accuracy.
If I am out to kill someone that is nice, but from a defenders point of view it is suicide. Since you will not know that you got someone in system untill they land on top of your sorry ass and kill you. Good luck trying to scan for probes btw, with the lag I usually get, doing a full range scan may well take over a minute or two.
Not to mention how hard it will be to keep enemies out in 0.0 systems, where it already is quite hard. Unless you got a 24/7 bubblecamp going, now you tell me how viable that is?
Regards
/Doxs
After 9 months, why is my face just a '!' ? |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.04 08:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Compromise: make local constellation.
Which is the same as removing local. No one uses constellation because a constellation is huge.
Originally by: Verus Potestas
And remove those bloody standing tags.
...were added because a huge amount of database load comes from people "Show Info" on everyone they see in local.
And second of all - WHY!?!. If I took the effort to set someone to low standings why in god's name would my interface not tell me that they are low standing when I talk to them/see them. It was more absurd when they weren't there.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
HelpCorp United
Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.12.04 08:42:00 -
[52]
I HAVE THE SOLUTION
REMOVE CHAT CHANNELS
Am I right? :D
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
The Guardian Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.04 08:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Compromise: make local constellation.
Which is the same as removing local. No one uses constellation because a constellation is huge.
Originally by: Verus Potestas
And remove those bloody standing tags.
...were added because a huge amount of database load comes from people "Show Info" on everyone they see in local.
And second of all - WHY!?!. If I took the effort to set someone to low standings why in god's name would my interface not tell me that they are low standing when I talk to them/see them. It was more absurd when they weren't there.
I believe they had planned to remove local initially in Kali1 however I also believe they approached it rationally and decided it would be more harmful to the game. Its just like in Alpha when there were no stargates, everything could jump from system to system. It was impossible to get any fights and the devs then came upon the stargate idea in order to create natural chokepoints where fighting could occur.
It is possible local may change in some way but I don't believe EVE could survive its removal, it would be as harmful as the CU and later the NGE was to SWG.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Fracking Beach
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Posted - 2006.12.04 09:36:00 -
[54]
Nice ideas on this thread. Few toughts:
Why not make an ON/OFF switch for "Local Communications Channel". This way if one wished to chat, be visible and participate in local chat, they switch a knob. This would make it possible to be either visible or invisible in local.
Since probing is so easy now, having a active scan/probe warning would make sense. That's a good idea. But, I think passive scanning should also be possible, given it doesn't "locate" anything. If someone starts actively probing for location, it should activate a warning in other ships in system. The warning could also be an option (or on/off) type setting.
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Plastic Moldman
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Posted - 2006.12.04 10:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: James Duar
Great, remove local, I'm all for it. Provided we get a proper scanning system in it's place. I want scans to be relativistic (only move at luminal speeds), scans to highlight the person trying to scan (massive pulse of EM would make you stand out) and the ability to use my gang mates or probes/drones to triangulate a scanning person's position. I want the ability to blow out chaff fields and drop dummy beacons to confuse people's sensors. Oh, and I want system wide or at least enormous asteroid belts.
But, most people I know calling for local's removal don't actually want a system like this. Because a system like this would actually make their job really really hard. If you were a pirate, the miners would easily safe/dock when they detected your scanner emissions. Alliances would instantly see the idiot who jumps into system and launches an omnidirectional scan without ever revealing their own positions. To pirate, or raid, you'd actually have to be really really clever about it. Which would be awesome and take a lot of skill. But I don't think it's quite what those calling for local's removal have in mind.
Gotta say I like the sound of this idea. It would give EVE back some of that wild feeling it has lost. Only thing about it that scares me is the learning curve. I forsee me losing alot of ships learning how to do it right.
Whoever commented about Local giving away Covops, I agree. Why not let the cloak hide you in local? And let you cloak while you still have the jump-in cloak so you don't even blip.
I like local but for crying out loud, the guy is cloaked.
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Kamal Aamma
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Posted - 2006.12.04 10:36:00 -
[56]
Change local chat to for example constellation chat. Then you could chat with even MORE people nearby you, but take away the exploitable benefits of this silly system-chat. And the best thing is, it's alredy implemented in the game so no great changes would have to be made. Nowdays constellation and regional chats are always empty, no matter where you fly. :(
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Chian XinLian
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:17:00 -
[57]
Still people seem to fail to see the POINT.
If you remove local (or as one poster suggested - hide cloaking ships from local) it only benefits pirates. Unless there are some more drastic changes to several key systems in game.
Sure I'd loved myself too that I'd be able to fly out there and be 'invisible' for others, unless they get lucky and spot me in some scan or probe of theirs. But with current game mechanics - only hunter would benefit (A LOT) by removal of local. It would be big shaft (or slap to a face) to anyone not hunting for a player.
As also stated - anyone in 0.0 not hunting player, is most likely ravishing asteroid or giving a hell to npc rats and thus is easy to find. Bigger systems it's bit longer if you have to hop from belt to belt. But you dont - you have scanner. And due map - you know there's someone (even if you wouldnt have local)
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Luka Terrlo
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:38:00 -
[58]
Removing local would be frickin insane. It's the first stage of the primary defenses that alliances use to control their borders. No intel - or even late intel - equals zero defense. You're gonna get walked all over if you don't know what's heading your way. It takes time to build a resistance force out of people scattered all over the region.
And you can't expect people to camp all gates in a 50 jump radius to see who's coming through.
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Marco P
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:55:00 -
[59]
I dont believe in random abuse on the forums but - anyone who wants to remove local is either an idiot or an out and out pirate. The removal of local would finish 99% of mining and ratting in 0.0
Forget scanning, pirates just jump into a system, one in a cov ops checks the belts and they all kill the juiciest targets they can find. Then they would be nearly impossible to find - you dont even know which system they are in and you cant split your defensive blob cos then youll get jumped.
Quite possibly the stupidest, least thought out suggestion that I've ever read on these forums and thats saying something!
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.04 12:43:00 -
[60]
It's simple: the map only updates every 30 minutes. Hunters - mobile - never appear on it. Prey do.
Secondly, prey have to be in an asteroid belt. They will be no where else because asteroid belts are not big enough. Ships easily out range the distance of belts. So all the hunters have to do is fly from belt to belt to find them and target the barges or escort at range. There will be no way to practically secure an alliances space and be able to say - "mine here, we'll tell you if anyone comes" without watching the gates continuously. Which no one wants to do, because IT IS NOT FUN.
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