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Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:46:00 - [61] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 04/12/2006 12:47:17 Quote: Secondly, prey have to be in an asteroid belt. They will be no where else because asteroid belts are not big enough. well .. "hidden" belts (aka off-grid belts allow you to mine far far away from the warp in point in the belt. the hunter needs to use the scanner and mwd to find you - should give you ample time to leave before he has found you. oh wait - CCP nerfed the asteroids on the scanner ___________________ EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts
d026 Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:49:00 - [62] local is fine as it is:)
Semper Sanguis	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:49:00 - [63] Originally by: James Duar It's simple: the map only updates every 30 minutes. Hunters - mobile - never appear on it. Prey do. Secondly, prey have to be in an asteroid belt. They will be no where else because asteroid belts are not big enough. Ships easily out range the distance of belts. So all the hunters have to do is fly from belt to belt to find them and target the barges or escort at range. There will be no way to practically secure an alliances space and be able to say - "mine here, we'll tell you if anyone comes" without watching the gates continuously. Which no one wants to do, because IT IS NOT FUN. So don't stay at the same spot for 30 minutes if you aren't prepared to protect yourself? Actually, if you aren't prepared to protect yourself at all, you should be on the move and constantly aware. Being careless is a luxury that you afford through resources like friends and guards, not the goddamn chat device. There will also be no way to hunt people like you do now by jumping into a system and checking local for targets. You think every hunting group is going to stop at every system and check every belt? If they do; a lot of people can mine happily while they're busy wasting time. If they don't; find a system with a lot of space, and mine there safely. The door swings both ways sugarplum!
MECTO Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:53:00 - [64] local is pretty stupid thing It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
Valan	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:59:00 - [65] Remove it. The new player SP boost was to make new players more useful to alliances. With no local you'll need scouts. This gives new players and people who like the faster smaller ships something to do. It will also bring back guerilla warfare and stop the blobbing in single systems. Sneak a few pilots through and build raiding fleets behind lines. Alliances will have to work at patrolling their space. It give those 2000 members something to do. Better than blobbing a choke point. People moan about fleet lag and blobs. Here is an oppurtunity to remove the reason for blobbing and disperse the EVE population. Want people in low sec, remove local. I could see a reason for keeping when scanning was palyer based. But the improvements now allow it to be removed. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:03:00 - [66] Edited by: James Duar on 04/12/2006 13:06:17 Edited by: James Duar on 04/12/2006 13:03:58 Originally by: Semper Sanguis Originally by: James Duar It's simple: the map only updates every 30 minutes. Hunters - mobile - never appear on it. Prey do. Secondly, prey have to be in an asteroid belt. They will be no where else because asteroid belts are not big enough. Ships easily out range the distance of belts. So all the hunters have to do is fly from belt to belt to find them and target the barges or escort at range. There will be no way to practically secure an alliances space and be able to say - "mine here, we'll tell you if anyone comes" without watching the gates continuously. Which no one wants to do, because IT IS NOT FUN. So don't stay at the same spot for 30 minutes if you aren't prepared to protect yourself? Actually, if you aren't prepared to protect yourself at all, you should be on the move and constantly aware. Being careless is a luxury that you afford through resources like friends and guards, not the goddamn chat device. There will also be no way to hunt people like you do now by jumping into a system and checking local for targets. You think every hunting group is going to stop at every system and check every belt? If they do; a lot of people can mine happily while they're busy wasting time. If they don't; find a system with a lot of space, and mine there safely. The door swings both ways sugarplum! So what do you do in EVE anyway? Have you ever guarded a mining op? Would you want to? Mining ops are guarded now. Without local no one will have even the faintest chance of getting away due to the time it takes barges to warp. And you still haven't answered the problem of securing alliance territory at all. EDIT: And all that aside, you still haven't answered why if removing Local is so fair to everyone, it should be done in the first place with absolutely no other changes to the gameplay. EDIT 2: Also, you might want to look earlier in the thread to see my point about removing local which would be an improvement on the game before you go off on a tangent about me being opposed to change.
Semper Sanguis	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:12:00 - [67] Quote: So what do you do in EVE anyway? Have you ever guarded a mining op? Would you want to? Mining ops are guarded now. Without local no one will have even the faintest chance of getting away due to the time it takes barges to warp. Yes I've guarded mining ops, and our barges haven't died because we guard them. Anything else? Quote: And you still haven't answered the problem of securing alliance territory at all. Simple answer: If you want to fully secure you alliance space, you should only claim as much as you are capable of securing. If you want recon, you should have scouts. Because you know, thats how intelligence is gathered if you don't have an omniscient chat device; scouts and recon. Quote: EDIT: And all that aside, you still haven't answered why if removing Local is so fair to everyone, it should be done in the first place with absolutely no other changes to the gameplay. I don't understand this question. Please rephrase it. Quote: EDIT 2: Also, you might want to look earlier in the thread to see my point about removing local which would be an improvement on the game before you go off on a tangent about me being opposed to change. If you link it, I might read it. No promises.
Thundercat Doom Minmatar Melissa Jumpclones INC	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:15:00 - [68] Edited by: Thundercat Doom on 04/12/2006 13:19:23 Removing local would give anyone who wants to camp out a station in low security the advantage. I understand there is a timer on people who are docking and undocking, but if you are in a fat ship that labors into warp drive, you are a dead duck. Or you could have someone there bumping the person exiting until the timer is up, then ya blast them. You of course cannot scan from inside a station, so it would give any would be station camper a huge advantage. At least with local, you know that there could be someone outside waiting for you. I don't think local should be removed any where, but of course, that is just my opinion. -------------------- -------------------- Flamers are Lamers.
SamuelAdams Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:16:00 - [69] I like the new local, keep it.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:19:00 - [70] Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: So what do you do in EVE anyway? Have you ever guarded a mining op? Would you want to? Mining ops are guarded now. Without local no one will have even the faintest chance of getting away due to the time it takes barges to warp. Yes I've guarded mining ops, and our barges haven't died because we guard them. Anything else? Really? So the fact your barges were already powering up for warp had nothing to do with it? Because I've plenty of mining ops happen where despite this a barge goes down anyway because there armor is paper. There is no practical way to 'shield' a weak ship in EVE if someone just zooms in for the kill - or snipes. Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: And you still haven't answered the problem of securing alliance territory at all. Simple answer: If you want to fully secure you alliance space, you should only claim as much as you are capable of securing. If you want recon, you should have scouts. Because you know, thats how intelligence is gathered if you don't have an omniscient chat device; scouts and recon. No one wants to sit on a gate and watch for people who jump in. That is boring. That is not what people play EVE for. And on a practical level, if that had to happen then we would quickly build automated sentries that did it for us and yelled when they got attacked. And put them everywhere at 300km from the gates. Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: EDIT: And all that aside, you still haven't answered why if removing Local is so fair to everyone, it should be done in the first place with absolutely no other changes to the gameplay. I don't understand this question. Please rephrase it. Simple: why do you want Local removed? There have been numerous disadvantages to fun for 90% of the game pointed out. The only people who benefit are low sec pirates if Local simply disappeared tomorrow. So how come you want it, if you are not a low sec pirate? Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: EDIT 2: Also, you might want to look earlier in the thread to see my point about removing local which would be an improvement on the game before you go off on a tangent about me being opposed to change. If you link it, I might read it. No promises. Linkage Enjoy. In fact you should probably read that first and tell me why we shouldn't do that.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:33:00 - [71] Lets not remove local and let those that like it keep it just as it is. Wow radical view! I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Semper Sanguis	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:34:00 - [72] Quote: Really? So the fact your barges were already powering up for warp had nothing to do with it? Because I've plenty of mining ops happen where despite this a barge goes down anyway because there armor is paper. There is no practical way to 'shield' a weak ship in EVE if someone just zooms in for the kill - or snipes. I guess you just don't know how to protect a mining op then, since in my experience, it's very much doable. Quote: No one wants to sit on a gate and watch for people who jump in. That is boring. That is not what people play EVE for. And on a practical level, if that had to happen then we would quickly build automated sentries that did it for us and yelled when they got attacked. And put them everywhere at 300km from the gates. Then don't do it? You don't have to keep eyes on gates 24/7 if you don't want to. You'll notice when a fleet rams into your space eventually. The only difference is, those who have eyes around will know sooner and can prepare better, hence the importance of "boring" intelligence activity. And you can't really claim to know what "people play EVE for" so cut down on the elected-representative talk. Quote: Simple: why do you want Local removed? There have been numerous disadvantages to fun for 90% of the game pointed out. The only people who benefit are low sec pirates if Local simply disappeared tomorrow. So how come you want it, if you are not a low sec pirate? Every single statement above is your silly opinion. I see no numerous disadvantages, and I have already explained why. I don't see 90% of the game anywhere, and you're certainly not qualified to make that kind of a numerical statement. So what am I to answer to exactly? Nothing substantial obviously. And is it so hard to imagine a person who doesn't act out of SELFISHNESS but rather the desire to have a game that is more immersive and strategy oriented rather than ADHD-compatible and safety-padded for the comfort of the lazy?
SSgt Sniper Gallente In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:35:00 - [73] Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 04/12/2006 13:39:45 Originally by: Extinctor Fortis I agree, local should not be a tactical tool, and optional for the user to broadcast themselves.. No one really uses it for chat in low sec systems anyways. Corporations have corpchat, alliances have alliance chat, and allied alliances have joint channels - assuming they aren't all using Teamspeak in the first place. I think it would create more immersion, and excitement. EVE is just so boring when you don't have to work for information. It puts everyone on the same playing field, when clearly, not everyone is of the same skill. And without losers, there are no winners. I use it to talk in lowsec. Yes, let's be all about the hardcore, shove the recreational and casual gamers even FURTHER out of the game, so ccp can go broke. I swear I'm getting sick to death of the hardcore crowd thinking they have the right to assess what's 'fair' for everyone. I don't use teamspeak btw, and never will. (I actually can't it conflicts with some progrms I use for work) It would completely ruin my immersion, as I can't sidle up to the belt and chat it up, nor can I watch an interesting convo that was already going on. My enjoyment factor would definitely go down. And putting everyone on the same playing field (which local does by snitching on you) should be something you like, so that your ability shines through. The OP reads like someone who had a lot of folks run away from systems he's visited recently. Kinda tells you a lot about who he is to be honest, he is the type interested in ruining someone else's day just so he can say he did it. --------- Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
Semper Sanguis	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:37:00 - [74] Quote: Linkage Nice idea! Definately better than the omniscient pilot list that is local, but probably not completely balanced since it's obvious you wrote it in a hissy fit in order to make a point. But in general, I don't think it's outrageous or unacceptable at all.
Semper Sanguis	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:38:00 - [75] Quote: The OP reads like someone who had a lot of folks run away from systems he's visited recently. Kinda tells you a lot about who he is to be honest, he is the type interested in ruining someone else's day just so he can say he did it. You forgot "He probably tortured and killed animals when he was a child". I am disappointed. The quality of the pseudo-shrinks on these boards is going down.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:41:00 - [76] Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: Linkage Nice idea! Definately better than the omniscient pilot list that is local, but probably not completely balanced since it's obvious you wrote it in a hissy fit in order to make a point. But in general, I don't think it's outrageous or unacceptable at all. It's not really meant to be outrageous, it's meant to put the "remove local!" calls in context. I support them, provided a lot more is done to many other systems. Obviously there would be ways it would make pirating dumb players easier too, but I am certainly making some assumptions about the mentality of the typical caller for the removal of local. A proper sensor/electronic warfare system in EVE would indeed be quite awesome, and if we got it I'd be happy for local to be removed since being jumped by a pirate in a belt would certainly mean I should've seen him coming or he's just really clever.
Semper Sanguis	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:43:00 - [77] Quote: ...but I am certainly making some assumptions about the mentality of the typical caller for the removal of local. Quote: Certainly your assumptions are wrong then, since I find your idea to be feasible. No?
SSgt Sniper Gallente In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:44:00 - [78] Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: The OP reads like someone who had a lot of folks run away from systems he's visited recently. Kinda tells you a lot about who he is to be honest, he is the type interested in ruining someone else's day just so he can say he did it. You forgot "He probably tortured and killed animals when he was a child". I am disappointed. The quality of the pseudo-shrinks on these boards is going down. I'm not a pseudo shrink by any means. The only folks that want local to go away are folks being hurt by it. Pirates, and invaders pretty much. What do raiders and pirates do? they blow up other people, whether these folks wanted to be engaged or were willing to fight in the first place. What happens to folks who lost their ships trying to mind their own business? They get upset. So, by being a pirate your whole point of existance is to make others miserable! Bleeding simple, and bleeding obvious. Go point your epeen someplace else. --------- Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:45:00 - [79] Man people are short sighted. Remove local and far fewer people would be in lowsec/0.0 and many would leave the game altogether. When realism > Fun for the majority of the players people start leaving. Just a simple fact. I'm kind of on the fence about how I feel about local. I both like and dislike it. But if you pull it you are going to do a lot more than just allow people to hide. You're going to encourage people... a lot of them... to leave lowsec/0.0 (and possibly the game altogether). Which is probably why posts like these tend to be ignored by the Devs.
Semper Sanguis	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:46:00 - [80] Edited by: Semper Sanguis on 04/12/2006 13:46:20 Quote: I'm not a pseudo shrink by any means. The only folks that want local to go away are folks being hurt by it. Pirates, and invaders pretty much. What do raiders and pirates do? they blow up other people, whether these folks wanted to be engaged or were willing to fight in the first place. What happens to folks who lost their ships trying to mind their own business? They get upset. So, by being a pirate your whole point of existance is to make others miserable! Bleeding simple, and bleeding obvious. Go point your epeen someplace else. Well slap me silly, this must be what they meant when they said Revelations! ...not.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:46:00 - [81] Edited by: James Duar on 04/12/2006 13:48:58 Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: ...but I am certainly making some assumptions about the mentality of the typical caller for the removal of local. Certainly your assumptions are wrong then, since I find your idea to be feasible. No? Never assumed you were a pirate. My question above was more "I don't think you've really considered this question properly" - but I guess we can agree to disagree on that point. The assumptions are in the way I present it. I wouldn't be quite so condescending were I just throwing it out there. EDIT: Also Sgt. Sniper I think you're really being too hard on pirates. I don't like them because they blow up my stuff. But I enjoy the fact they exist in the game. What's life without challenges?
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:50:00 - [82] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 04/12/2006 13:51:26 Originally by: Semper Sanguis As I said, local is hardly the only way to chat. There are plenty of channels for specific purposes, for specific groups etc. And again, you can declare yourself in local just like you did before. Removing local does nothing but add to immersion and strategy. LOL are you one of these people who never open your mouth except for a specific purpose? When within 3 posts of this thread starting you used the words "ADHD mentality" to describe someone who disagrees with you, I lost all respect for anything you had to say on the issue. If you think this is a game for people with ADHD, you clearly misunderstand the term. The fact that you bandy it about trying to belittle Maya, and the fact that you can't seem to empathise at all with the fact that some people just like to 'chat' for no other reason than just to communicate, leads me to believe that if anyone around here has issues, it is you. Maya was saying that local chat is part of the fun of the game. Of course it is used as a tactical tool, because it is useful as such, but it is also used for its intended purpose, which is to chat, often at random with complete strangers. Obviously this doesnt suit your particular style of play, so you want it abolished. However you support this with the arbitrary assumption that because it is called 'local chat' it should have no use as a tactical tool. Why not? Within the mechanics and story of the game, everyone jumps into a system through jumpgates, which record the entry and exit of ships and their pilots from a system. Faster tha light travel and instant communications are also not a problem within the game mechanics. Put the two together and you have local chat. It is not implausable in the slightest, yet in your mind you have made it so, simply because you do not want it in game because you see it as an obstacle. I honestly think you are taking this Game a little too seriously, when you wish something as extreme as the removal of local chat, which is a fun feature for the majority of players who pay their subs too, simply to make recon and blobbing people more viable. Its not hard to get kills in this game as it is already, and its also not hard to escape being killed if you are smart. Removal of local chat will not change this because people will adapt. All removal of local chat will do is remove community and fun for alot of people to whom EVE isnt a religion, its just something they play for fun.
SSgt Sniper Gallente In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:54:00 - [83] Originally by: Taram Caldar Man people are short sighted. Remove local and far fewer people would be in lowsec/0.0 and many would leave the game altogether. When realism > Fun for the majority of the players people start leaving. Just a simple fact. I'm kind of on the fence about how I feel about local. I both like and dislike it. But if you pull it you are going to do a lot more than just allow people to hide. You're going to encourage people... a lot of them... to leave lowsec/0.0 (and possibly the game altogether). Which is probably why posts like these tend to be ignored by the Devs. Exactly. And ccp would shut down, and their would be no tranquility for him to leagally make people suffer. So why would he want what would in the end kill his own fun? --------- Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
Yumi Katanawe Caldari SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:00:00 - [84] Actually probes can be considered "active" since they show up on the scanner thus they show that someone's out there looking for you. I'm quite sure the devs have something thought out - you can see down the line how a strengthened scan system could eventually replace local.
SSgt Sniper Gallente In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:02:00 - [85] Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 04/12/2006 14:11:55 Originally by: James Duar Edited by: James Duar on 04/12/2006 13:48:58 Originally by: Semper Sanguis Quote: ...but I am certainly making some assumptions about the mentality of the typical caller for the removal of local. Certainly your assumptions are wrong then, since I find your idea to be feasible. No? Never assumed you were a pirate. My question above was more "I don't think you've really considered this question properly" - but I guess we can agree to disagree on that point. The assumptions are in the way I present it. I wouldn't be quite so condescending were I just throwing it out there. EDIT: Also Sgt. Sniper I think you're really being too hard on pirates. I don't like them because they blow up my stuff. But I enjoy the fact they exist in the game. What's life without challenges? James, I am a very simple to the point guy. And I believe you should treat other folks with a respectful nature when at all possible, and treat those the way you wish to be treated. Which cuts both ways: by apirate blatantly disrespecting other people, he has lost any right to respectful treatment from me. That's just the way I see it and likely I will never change. If you want to go fight in some huge corp tussel, fine. Pony up the iskies for a legal dec and away you go! But pirates, don't qualify. EDIT to add that Mercs don't qualify as pirates and do get respect. They are not hunting folks for the fun of making folks not asking for trouble suffer, they are hunting because someone PAID them to do it. And a lot of them dec it just like normal, which means the 'victim' had full awareness they were coming. --------- Gallente need ONE ship with an ecm bonus option. JUST ONE.
Edgars Sults LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:03:00 - [86] They won't remove local so stop asking for it!
Valan	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:09:00 - [87] Originally by: Edgars Sults They won't remove local so stop asking for it! Oveur put a post up a few years ago as they were thinking about it. No one really knows what will really happen. Opinion was split across all communities and professions. They decided not to remove it but didn't discount considering it in the future. Its like any otehr big change people always threatens to leave. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:12:00 - [88] Originally by: SSgt Sniper I'm not a pseudo shrink by any means. The only folks that want local to go away are folks being hurt by it. Pirates, and invaders pretty much. What do raiders and pirates do? they blow up other people, whether these folks wanted to be engaged or were willing to fight in the first place. What happens to folks who lost their ships trying to mind their own business? They get upset. So, by being a pirate your whole point of existance is to make others miserable! Bleeding simple, and bleeding obvious. Go point your epeen someplace else. Exactly. I couldn't have said it better, although I don't agree with the making people miserable part. I'm a complete **** in real-life but like to play a nice-guy in game just to get away from all that . Another point people are missing is that there is a fundemantal asymmetry between hunters and hunted in Eve: the hunted are usually more or less stationary and their favourite spots are pretty well known or easy enough to discover. For this reason, you have as Maya has said many times before, to use either local or the scanner. If you think insta-lag was bad just wait until 10,000 carebears start spamming their scanners every 5 seconds. The problem here is that "pirates" are whining for the wammmmbulances after WTZ. I say damned right. They need to work for their kills.
Sentinel Eeex Caldari Two Brothers Mining Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:19:00 - [89] Originally by: Extinctor Fortis I am very suprised someone from the biggest 0.0 entity ingame would be abhorrently opposed to what is essentially more content for them. Please, stop with this silly suggestions about LOCAL. It'd affect 0.0 space more than anything else (and 99% of people suggesting these changes seemingly know ****all about living in 0.0), and I'm tired of silly little piwates whining about LOCAL all the time. Go and find someone to fight, if you want to pew-pew so much, it's really easy...
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:47:00 - [90] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Please, stop with this silly suggestions about LOCAL. It'd affect 0.0 space more than anything else (and 99% of people suggesting these changes seemingly know ****all about living in 0.0), and I'm tired of silly little piwates whining about LOCAL all the time. Go and find someone to fight, if you want to pew-pew so much, it's really easy... Indeed, pierats n00bs cannot kill people because they suck, so they want everyone nerfed so they can get a kill We all know that the remove local threads come from the fevered imagination of people with too much time on their hands while sitting at a gate camp trying to kill other n00b's.. you talk it up as much as you can, but flying through empty space and not even seeing someone else in local would make this game the most boring space sim ever, it would no longer be a MMO, it would be a online single or two player game <nelson>ha, ha</nelson>

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