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Teras Lakkos
2
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Posted - 2011.12.08 17:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lets get right to it.
Just delete drone sub and give us another laser one. No love for drones you say? Instead give assault sub and the new laser sub a drone bay. Current laser sub = zealot (no drones), new laser sub = navy omen (drones) and last time i checked sacrilege had a drone bay . Loki doesn't seem to have drone issues and we are 2nd in drones...
Covert sub: For the love of all things stop giving 1 bonus amarr ships cap use (everyone just fits autocannons and they work better ) plus your war on the low slots of the legion. Compare T3 dps with covert sub, who is the outlier?
And that does it. Too extreme? I don't think so. |
river Zateki
Dutch Squad Chained Reactions
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 03:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
i just got a legion and got subs to 4/5....and yeah its kind of dissappointing. Especially the offensive subs. The HAM one is missing a bonus and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it.... |
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
108
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Posted - 2011.12.09 03:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
HAM legion needs to be better than a HAM tengu.
Pulse legion needs to be miles ahead of the zealot to justify the additional cost. |
Illrean
Old Prospectors Roid Alliance for Harvesting
0
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Posted - 2011.12.09 04:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
river Zateki wrote:i just got a legion and got subs to 4/5....and yeah its kind of dissappointing. Especially the offensive subs. The HAM one is missing a bonus and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it....
Missiles are a secondary weapon for Amarr, that is why they don't have three bonuses on the missile sub. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
43
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Posted - 2011.12.09 05:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Illrean wrote:river Zateki wrote:i just got a legion and got subs to 4/5....and yeah its kind of dissappointing. Especially the offensive subs. The HAM one is missing a bonus and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it.... Missiles are a secondary weapon for Amarr, that is why they don't have three bonuses on the missile sub.
Thats the worst argument ever, why would they even bother designing one if its useless? |
Salvia Olima
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
10
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Posted - 2011.12.09 07:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Give a 50m3 dronebay to the hull and it's done. |
Twisted Ideals
ZERO T0LERANCE RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.12.09 11:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
am i the only one who has a big problem to understand what the Op is complaining about? anyone care to give me a translation? i like legions |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Narwhals Ate My Duck
12
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Posted - 2011.12.09 13:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Twisted Ideals wrote:am i the only one who has a big problem to understand what the Op is complaining about? anyone care to give me a translation? i like legions
legions are beyond awful for anything other than neuting. that clear enough for you? |
Twisted Ideals
ZERO T0LERANCE RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.12.09 13:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Teras Lakkos wrote:Covert sub: For the love of all things stop giving 1 bonus amarr ships cap use (everyone just fits autocannons and they work better ) plus your war on the low slots of the legion. Compare T3 dps with covert sub, who is the outlier?
not clear yet... |
hiporiko
Obscure Star
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 13:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mine works fine. |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1421
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Posted - 2011.12.09 13:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Twisted Ideals wrote:Teras Lakkos wrote:Covert sub: For the love of all things stop giving 1 bonus amarr ships cap use (everyone just fits autocannons and they work better ) plus your war on the low slots of the legion. Compare T3 dps with covert sub, who is the outlier? not clear yet...
Not our fault you can't understand
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.12.09 13:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am not a Legion pilot but a Proteus pilot and I will say here what a say in many of these threads, many of the strategic cruiser subsystems require balancing, even if you feel your version of the ship is fine some subsystems are just not used.
Although I cannot fly a Legion I often look to compare capability against the Proteus so have done a fair bit EFT warrioring Plus I have ok Amarr cruiser skills anyway.
Defensive
Adaptive Augmenter - 7.5% Cap reduction and at least 50% bonus to armour repair range, I understand the reluctance to replace logistics ships but this sub should at least be viable and it is the cap use and range that holds this back.
Offensive On paper you look to have a good spread of capability but some are just subpar. Generally I would up the drone compliment
Drone Synthesis Projector - 75mbit bandwidth
Liquid Crystal Magnifiers - 25mbut drone bay and bandwidth
Assault Optimisation - A third missile bonus probably explosion velocity
Electronics
Energy Parasitic Complex - donGÇÖt see this used a lot either so how about a further 25mbit drone bay and bandwidth. Combined with the Drone sub you now have 100mbit bandwidth, it can also be used to buff the other offensive subs but you are more likely to use the weapon hard points than neuts, still this would give a Laser Legion 50mbit bandwidth and give the covert sub some drones.
Prop Subs
Wake Limiter - Proteus has this, it is not used. The bonus needs to be more like the Inty bonus; it is already the slowest subsystem.
Those are my ideas anyway, whatever happens donGÇÖt just buff the legion look at all subsystems for all ships
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Takeshi Yamato
ALA Biomedical
29
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Posted - 2011.12.09 13:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
1) Legion Chassis Optimization is useless. Everybody fits an AB or MWD on their Legions and with that the Fuel Catalyst gives better align times and higher top speed.
2) The Legion has generally bad slot layouts. You want 3-4 mids and MORE lows than mids when you have the choice. There are many subsystem combinations that violate this simple rule. I would like to see that changed. Despite several subsystems that imitate the Curse or Pilgrim, the Legion is a different beast: it never shield tanks and it doesn't need midslots to make use of TDs either.
3) HAM Legion compares poorly to a HAM Tengu.
4) Drone Legion has the horrible lone laser cap usage bonus that has never worked well for any ship. It's a really a shame. |
Kahz Niverrah
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming Moar Tears
81
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Posted - 2011.12.09 14:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Salvia Olima wrote:Give a 50m3 dronebay to the hull and it's done. Pretty much this. I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main. |
Teras Lakkos
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 16:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kahz Niverrah wrote:Salvia Olima wrote:Give a 50m3 dronebay to the hull and it's done. Pretty much this.
50/50 with assault sub and 25/25 on laser sub. Cov ops and drone sub will still suck but who cares they don't get used. My golden brick needs drones! |
Aestivalis Saidrian
SplitPush Mercantiles
7
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Posted - 2011.12.09 16:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Howabout some ******* bug fixes.
So, fun story, guys, if you have some free time. Keep a 10MN afterburner with the Fuel Catalyst. Now, swap subsystems. Any of them. Emergent Locus for Targeting Sub, whatever.
Now, go outside, turn on Afterburner. Last time I did this, the 10MN AB decided to eat 482 Cap, not 80.
As for subsystems...
I like the Laser Subsystem as is, though that's just me.
The Drone one REALLY needs a change badly. You get better DPS/Alpha using Arty then Beams. |
Elindreal
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2011.12.09 19:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
comparing ham legion to ham tengu isnt completely a 1:1 comparison
i fly a ham tengu and with the range bonus on the subsys it's excellent at floating around the edge of point range, outside of web so it can keep up its transversal because otherwise a webbed tengu = a dead tengu
in comparison, a ham legion suffers a bit less dps and less range, however its tank is much better. it is essential a ham brawler, like the other khanid ships. due to the lack of a range bonus, it must orbit much tighter, but on the bright side it doesn't suffer from shield tank sig radius bloating. as well, i personally figure the neut subsystem goes hand in hand with the ham subsys as medium neuts are just about the same range as the unbonus'd hams.
so now you have a close range neut/ham brawler, somewhat like the Vangel |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Narwhals Ate My Duck
13
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Posted - 2011.12.10 00:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:1) Legion Chassis Optimization is useless. Everybody fits an AB or MWD on their Legions and with that the Fuel Catalyst gives better align times and higher top speed. This subsystem needs a different bonus.
um...no... chasis opt sub is for when you fit a mwd, which should be always.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
348
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Posted - 2011.12.10 01:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
small default dronebay +1 make covops sub somehow useful
and please make it so that you can *unfit* subsystems WITHOUT killing the rigs (for all tech 3s). Currently you have to buy one hull (+ a full set of subsystems + one spare set) for every fitting you want to fly since tech II rigs lock the hull to a specific fitting -> swapping subs is useless in this case. a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
244
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Posted - 2011.12.10 03:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes, Give my precious Legion a boost!!! PLZ! 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me! |
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Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2011.12.10 05:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
My wish lists? make the lazer sub better than the zealot, and give it another low |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
456
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Posted - 2011.12.10 05:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Shivus Tao wrote:HAM legion needs to be better than a HAM tengu.
Noes.
Not until my hybrid sub become better than your laser sub witch would be has stupid has your legion being better with missiles than Tengu. |
Silverdaddy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.10 18:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
A bit of a side topic, but I wanted to ask if anyone would care to share their legion incursion fits? I'm relatively new, and just want an idea of what to aim for... |
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
13
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Posted - 2011.12.10 19:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
IF you change the drone sub then remove this stupid anti-bonus of laser cap usage and give it a REAL bonus instead like RoF or Damage.
But NO remove!
It's the absolut best subsystem for complex and probing. [Legion] Damage Control II 2*Imperial Navy Heat Sink Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner Analyzer II Codebreaker II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II 4*Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 MORE DRONES
All you need, probe launcher, hacking, analyser, salavger, 464 DPS, 300+ defens, up to 62 opti, can do all complex equal if Ghurista, Angels or Sansash. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
Julia Connor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2011.12.10 20:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:IF you change the drone sub then remove this stupid anti-bonus of laser cap usage and give it a REAL bonus instead like RoF or Damage.
But NO remove!
It's the absolut best subsystem for complex and probing. [Legion] Damage Control II 2*Imperial Navy Heat Sink Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner Analyzer II Codebreaker II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II 4*Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 MORE DRONES
All you need, probe launcher, hacking, analyser, salavger, 464 DPS, 300+ defens, up to 62 opti, can do all complex equal if Ghurista, Angels or Sansash.
PS: as it is now with this NOT bonus of cap usage for lasers ... it is even better with Autocannons -> this is PUR FAIL in designe.
Wait a min, you'll actually use medium autocannons for PVE on a non bonused hull?
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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
14
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Posted - 2011.12.10 23:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Julia Connor wrote:Wait a min, you'll actually use medium autocannons for PVE on a legion? To the guy saying Ham legion should be better than Ham tengu 2/10. You tried but it wasn't good enough.
When I'm in Ghurista or Angel space ... sure. I know Crystals are cheeper, but you get the absolut same DPS with autocannons <-> pulse or a bit less DPS but higher Alpha with arti <-> beams when using the Drone sub. So why not use the advantage of right damage types?
PS: if you find a gas-cloude .. remove the Weapons and Weapon Mods ... and use Cargo Expander + Gas Havesters ;).
And it's a SHAME, that TECH 3 Amarr works equal well (or better in some cases) with our anemys weapons as it does with our mighty Lasers!
So you can add the Legion Drone offensive to - Punisher - Maller - Prophecy - TECH 3 .... god damit ... so much FAIL DESIGNE!
When whill CCP give this ships 25% more BASE CAP (recharge) and a REAL bonus instead ??
They did a damn good job with the change of the Apocalypse ... now they need to fix the other ships with this FAIL ANTI BONUS! Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
Adeena Torcfist
Dark Underground Forces
12
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Posted - 2011.12.11 04:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
some things id like to see on the legion changed. [ 1. Ham's get some flight time bonus. i'd even be happier with 1 extra second flight time 2. Range on neuts, 5% would suffice for me. 3. Drone bay on some of these offensive subs.... 4. agility looked at, all armor rigs slow it down, so adjusting that, will help compensate it a little.
these are just my ideas, & i'd like to see them implemented to be quite honest.
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Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
0
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Posted - 2011.12.11 05:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:comparing ham legion to ham tengu isnt completely a 1:1 comparison
i fly a ham tengu and with the range bonus on the subsys it's excellent at floating around the edge of point range, outside of web so it can keep up its transversal because otherwise a webbed tengu = a dead tengu
in comparison, a ham legion suffers a bit less dps and less range, however its tank is much better. it is essential a ham brawler, like the other khanid ships. due to the lack of a range bonus, it must orbit much tighter, but on the bright side it doesn't suffer from shield tank sig radius bloating. as well, i personally figure the neut subsystem goes hand in hand with the ham subsys as medium neuts are just about the same range as the unbonus'd hams.
so now you have a close range neut/ham brawler, somewhat like the Vangel
This is how I fit my Legion. I wish more Amarr ships used missiles tbh, I <3 my Sacrilege. |
YuuKnow
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2011.12.11 21:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
I just wish that they would switch the graphics of the Dissolution Sequencer with the graphics of the Emergent Locus Analyzer. The Emergent Locus Analyzer is the subsystem that's most useful to me, but also the one that looks the ugliest! Sometimes I want to inquip the Dissolution Sequencer just for the cool look.
How about it devs?
Neut and lasers also is a a difficult combination, so how about changing the Energy Parasitic Complex bonus to "10% reduction in cap use for energy neutralizers per level" or "5% bonus to capictor capacity per level" instead. |
Teras Lakkos
5
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Posted - 2011.12.12 00:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
No matter the changes I think most people agree the legion is due for some love. |
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