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Lugh Crow-Slave
1202
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Posted - 2015.08.10 16:07:05 -
[181] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:I totally agree in this. Jump bridges need to change. This can be done in multiple ways - another possibility. Jump bridges don't give you "blue timer" , but using jump bridge give you 5 minute "red timer". Limiting them to one organization have its downsides - as many groups are split to 2 sub alliances. First keeps all mains , and pvp characters, 2nd where you keep your alts ( cynos , JF, pve chars) , academy or friends. So the question is : Will CCP consider changing jump bridge mechanic that they don't provide any fatigue (blue timer) , but instead of it generate only reactivation timer? 5 minute red timer for jumps within same region , and 15 minutes* of red timer for Jump Bridges between regions. *to block abuse in power projection.
I'm not sure how easy this would be to do since they could not tie the jump timer to ships using cov ops portals and just had to tie it to all the ships that could use them
changing fatigue based on what was being used to jump doesn't seem to be something ccp can do with ease
as well the jump timer is tied to the fatigue timer and ignores the range you are jumping. it is only the fatigue timer that takes jumping into account
so if ccp can do this then \o/ and please remove the fatigue bonuse from cov ops/recon and put it onto the cov ops bridge
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
286
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Posted - 2015.08.10 16:56:52 -
[182] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:I might be willing to concede to your idea, on one condition, it only applies to your alliance jump bridges
Jump bridges work by standings, so going from Deklein to Vale in a matter of a few minutes, then bridging to geminate is a bit too much power projection compared to what others have at their disposal, considering only a small portion of that is actual goon controlled space Nor is any fleet doing that likely to be a 100% (or even 50%) goon fleet. So what you're really complaining about isn't jump bridges, it's politics.
Nope, that is a fleet traveling long distances with no drawback, which is power projection pure and simple.
BY your same token, jumping to beacons should accrue any fatty gay either then |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
524
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Posted - 2015.08.10 19:08:34 -
[183] - Quote
Malcanis, I have come to expect better out of you.
It's impossible to fully separate and parse out the strength of the individual effects of FozzieSov vs Phoebe. Each individual effect plus their interaction best explains the current map and the change from the old one, rather than one effect on it's own. Jump fatigue alone does not explain the massive shift in the map, which you do assert.
Edit: Perhaps not intentional, but its also odd that one of the selected maps shows coalitions, and one shows alliances. It would be more fair to show coalitions on both, of which the change is there, but less drastic.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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B0RG 0VERLORD
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.08.10 20:24:22 -
[184] - Quote
a lot of people for and against any changes to the jump range/fatigue,so many pros and cons to it depending on were you live in eve.and main objections to changing it is due to power projection,so would it not be a better method of dealing with the power houses and not taking it out on the ships or the ships abilities
would removal of standings help.disband the power houses and lets get some killing in on all sides allow only one blue and one red the rest of the universe is nuetral
long live NBSI |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
305
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Posted - 2015.08.10 23:12:52 -
[185] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:I totally agree in this. Jump bridges need to change. This can be done in multiple ways - another possibility. Jump bridges don't give you "blue timer" , but using jump bridge give you 5 minute "red timer". Limiting them to one organization have its downsides - as many groups are split to 2 sub alliances. First keeps all mains , and pvp characters, 2nd where you keep your alts ( cynos , JF, pve chars) , academy or friends. So the question is : Will CCP consider changing jump bridge mechanic that they don't provide any fatigue (blue timer) , but instead of it generate only reactivation timer? 5 minute red timer for jumps within same region , and 15 minutes* of red timer for Jump Bridges between regions. *to block abuse in power projection. I'm not sure how easy this would be to do since they could not tie the jump timer to ships using cov ops portals and just had to tie it to all the ships that could use them changing fatigue based on what was being used to jump doesn't seem to be something ccp can do with ease as well the jump timer is tied to the fatigue timer and ignores the range you are jumping. it is only the fatigue timer that takes jumping into account so if ccp can do this then \o/ and please remove the fatigue bonuse from cov ops/recon and put it onto the cov ops bridge
No..please continue to suck it. Especially in light of the unprovoked WH nerf. Thank you and EABOD |
GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
87
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Posted - 2015.08.11 05:52:34 -
[186] - Quote
I know i missed the cutoff but here goes.
Major problems with phoebe 1) Effectively removed what many players view as end game material. Causing many to unsub. 2) Made eve a bigger place by reducing the ability to travel, due to less players playing this is a force multiplier for stagnation.
Major Problems with eve as a whole
1) New players so far behind an aging playerbase, skillpoints being the biggest and hardest thing to overcome; core skills are the biggest problem with getting newer players to play the game and stick with it. There's well over a year's worth of training for core skills. I define core skills as anything you train that has a passive effect not on a specific item. Its a long list of skills and a lot of skillpoints, for my characters I wouldn't care if I got a refund on them, but for lower SP characters they probably would. It is such a massive amount of skillpoints to refund that it should be done @ 1-2mil sp refunded per month and the skill then being a permanent passive or rolled into the base stats of everything it effected. This is to prevent the majority of the playerbase from having ~20+ million unallocated skillpoints.
2) Fozziesov turned sov warfare into a war of attrition to maintain your sov by opening up the ability for completely un-interested parties to troll sov owners. Not only is the concept of the entosis link terrible, the multinode system is bad. This is because it promotes small fights with annoying ships, not real combat. Battleships and above have basically been made useless by this. I really don't have a solution for this, other than come to some sort of middle ground between dominion sov and fozziesov. Bring back SBU's and structure grinding, but keep the indexes and have them modify the hitpoints/resists of structures and the SBU online time.
Judging by http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility we're back to mid 2007 login numbers, eve has had a very rough past year in this regard. To deny that in its current state eve is dieing would be foolish. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
567
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Posted - 2015.08.11 15:18:40 -
[187] - Quote
I missed the cut-off, but this wasn't very well publicised so if you can include these questions, that would be great:
Once the capital rebalance is done, assuming jump fatigue stays in it's current format, would they consider SP reimbursement for selected capital only skills for those that wanted them? This is due to the fact that when people initially invested in both supercapitals and their supercapital alt, the game was significantly different to what it is today.
If jump fatigue was originally introduced to prevent fast and massive escalation of capital fights and this has been achieved, would CCP consider toning down fatique or extending jump range so the tedium of just moving a capital around is lessened? Pheobe didn't prevent capital deployment for long term war, it didn't prevent capital use as taxis, it just made it very, very tedious. It went from 20 minutes to get across EVE (if you're well oiled) to about 4 days by jumping only.
Would CCP consider adding back two jump bridges per system if fatigue remains the same as it is now? The fatigue itself would act as a deterrent for overuse.
Pheobe then Fozzie sov drastically changed the nature of fleet warfare, limiting fleets to not only in class but to very specific hulls (your stats may say otherwise but in game you'll notice this clearly). Would you consider rebalancing classes of ships to more diversify fleet combat? Or is a the predominately risk adverse kiting doctrines we see right now (and since pheobe went live) something CCP actually wants? Armoured close range ships and close range combat in general seems to have been killed with Pheobe. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
965
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Posted - 2015.08.11 17:37:03 -
[188] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:BY your same token, jumping to beacons should accrue any fatty gay either then
Holy Autocorrect, Batman! :)
And there's a case to be made of exactly that: That fleets jumping to beacons aren't projecting power, they're moving around in areas you already hold. In fact, there's more of a case there, because my carrier can't jump to an ally's beacon, no matter what their standings are... rather like entosising. It just doesn't work.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that jump bridges etc don't make it a lot easier to hold a Coalition together - but at this point, I think it should be pretty clear they're not the defining tool for Power Projection that Greyscale seemed to think they were, and his own statements indicated that you were supposed to be able to move around your own space.
So why not ADM 'em? Reduce fatigue for using a JB or jump drive (but not a titan bridge) based on friendly ADM. If we're supposed to be able to move around our own space, let us move around our own space. |
PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
70
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Posted - 2015.08.11 18:49:09 -
[189] - Quote
I hope jump ranges revert back to the old values some day, with no jump fatigue, because new fozzie sov doesn't favor any capital ships, as capital ships play absolutely no role in taking sov anymore. Anyone with noob ship can take any system he wants, no matter how many capital ships defender brings.
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Ben Fenix
Net Neutrality
17
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Posted - 2015.08.11 19:08:50 -
[190] - Quote
PAPULA wrote:I hope jump ranges revert back to the old values some day, with no jump fatigue, because new fozzie sov doesn't favor any capital ships, as capital ships play absolutely no role in taking sov anymore. Anyone with noob ship can take any system he wants, no matter how many capital ships defender brings.
All capital ships would literally reduce your chances of defending to zero vs small none hit-able ships.
1) Next they will be further reducing ship loss for anything sub capital. This will allow them to reduce capital ships in game by attrition, as people will prefer flying ships they cannot lose. Nullsec was an excellent use case test for this customer behavior.
2) Then, they will make capital ship blueprints hard to research and buy. Further reducing capitals in game.
3) It's important that we don't panic. CCP has great plans for capitals ships. |
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Vinz Clortho
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.08.11 19:17:37 -
[191] - Quote
Ben Fenix wrote:PAPULA wrote:I hope jump ranges revert back to the old values some day, with no jump fatigue, because new fozzie sov doesn't favor any capital ships, as capital ships play absolutely no role in taking sov anymore. Anyone with noob ship can take any system he wants, no matter how many capital ships defender brings.
All capital ships would literally reduce your chances of defending to zero vs small none hit-able ships. 1) Next they will be further reducing ship loss for anything sub capital. This will allow them to reduce capital ships in game by attrition, as people will prefer flying ships they cannot lose. Nullsec was an excellent use case test for this customer behavior. 2) Then, they will make capital ship blueprints hard to research and buy. Further reducing capitals in game. 3) It's important that we don't panic. CCP has great plans for capitals ships.
You have discovered CCP's plans! That is great news. Now that it's a matter of public information, they will have no choice but to return back to PAPULA's suggestion. Original jump ranges and capital ship usability. Capital ships matter ! |
PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
70
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Posted - 2015.08.11 19:52:20 -
[192] - Quote
Ben Fenix wrote: All capital ships would literally reduce your chances of defending to zero vs small none hit-able ships.
I don't know if you know but: 5x penalty to Entosis Link cycle time
For all capitals, that gives you enough time to jump in your capitals with 15 au range and kill them. And try to hit a ceptor with moros if you can.
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Jim Khan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.08.11 20:31:18 -
[193] - Quote
PAPULA wrote:Ben Fenix wrote: All capital ships would literally reduce your chances of defending to zero vs small none hit-able ships.
I don't know if you know but: 5x penalty to Entosis Link cycle time For all capitals, that gives you enough time to jump in your capitals with 15 au range and kill them. And try to hit a ceptor with moros if you can.
I would love to see the fit that lets a Moros hit a ceptor? Not possible after the nerfs. |
PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
70
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Posted - 2015.08.11 20:36:53 -
[194] - Quote
Jim Khan wrote: I would love to see the fit that lets a Moros hit a ceptor? Not possible after the nerfs.
Of course it's not possible, that makes dreads obsolete if you wanna kill a ceptor entosisinGäó |
Ben Fenix
Net Neutrality
17
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Posted - 2015.08.11 21:38:56 -
[195] - Quote
Idea for creating more activity in nullsec. Tie jump fatigue to the hull. Increase industry, Increase ISK drain, Increase market activity, Increase hauling.Nullsec will be booming with a new economy to compensate for "Jump Fatigue". People cannot afford to buy alts on the char bazaar to compensate for pilot jump fatigue. Many also cannot afford to sub alternate accounts. Buying new ships once in awhile is far more realistic.
Idea for increasing fights in nullsec. Reduce alliances via unrealistic ISK fee. (10 billion a month). Maybe remove alliances and coalitions entirely.
Idea for reducing capital ship usage. Continue on the same road. Reduce our abilities to use capitals ships. You are only 1 step away from completely removing them.
Capital Ships Matter !
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loquacious7
String Theory For. U The Obsidian Front
21
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Posted - 2015.08.11 22:55:53 -
[196] - Quote
Zverofaust wrote:1) "Who in CCP actually thought it was actually a good idea to use boredom and tedium as a balancing factor in a video game?"
2) "Why haven't they been fired?"
:) THIS! I often wondered why they punish players who spent a great deal of isk and over a year of skill training. Add up the isk and time spent with those skills, then put in a pile and burn it. *I think a great deal of capital pilots felt the punishment (nerf) was a little severe. Yes there was a problem with power projection, not enough of it :) Would any military industry nerf their weapons/ships. Odd how the game logic is not following RL experiences (in a real sandbox the ships that do not preform as well as others would be upgraded as well) not nerfed. |
Ben Fenix
Net Neutrality
17
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Posted - 2015.08.11 23:42:20 -
[197] - Quote
loquacious7 wrote:Zverofaust wrote:1) "Who in CCP actually thought it was actually a good idea to use boredom and tedium as a balancing factor in a video game?"
2) "Why haven't they been fired?" :) THIS! I often wondered why they punish players who spent a great deal of isk and over a year of skill training. Add up the isk and time spent with those skills, then put in a pile and burn it. *I think a great deal of capital pilots felt the punishment (nerf) was a little severe. Yes there was a problem with power projection, not enough of it :) Would any military industry nerf their weapons/ships. Odd how the game logic is not following RL experiences (in a real sandbox the ships that do not preform as well as others would be upgraded as well) not nerfed.
I have noticed that a lot of people online feel as though to much ISK and power has pooled up into a few single groups within eve online. That nerfing capital ships was justified in favor of helping the small guy. I thought the only reason new players even stayed in this "cliff of a learning experience" was to reach capital ships? Are there hordes of new players out there who hate capitals? I would love to hear some new players feedback on this. The first nerf reducing capital ships ability to hit subcaps was probably enough? So why nerf the capital ships ability to travel also? A massive group of capitals that cannot attack interceptors is hardly the problem? Maybe the new player cannot understand that interceptors are immune to capitals in general? So just seeing capitals in the area is enough to scare them off?
Any new players who care to comment on the jump fatigue?
Capital Ships Matter !
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Sort Dragon
Resilience. DARKNESS.
140
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Posted - 2015.08.12 11:55:28 -
[198] - Quote
For those wanting to listen in to the townhall today you can keep track by listening on twitch at http://www.twitch.tv/spectrefleet |
Kari Trace
32
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Posted - 2015.08.12 14:34:02 -
[199] - Quote
loquacious7 wrote:Zverofaust wrote:1) "Who in CCP actually thought it was actually a good idea to use boredom and tedium as a balancing factor in a video game?"
2) "Why haven't they been fired?" :) THIS! I often wondered why they punish players who spent a great deal of isk and over a year of skill training. Add up the isk and time spent with those skills, then put in a pile and burn it. *I think a great deal of capital pilots felt the punishment (nerf) was a little severe. Yes there was a problem with power projection, not enough of it :) Would any military industry nerf their weapons/ships. Odd how the game logic is not following RL experiences (in a real sandbox the ships that do not preform as well as others would be upgraded as well) not nerfed.
Recommending sub-caps should have been `upgraded` with jump drives? :D. In honesty though I do agree with you, its Fatigue nurf was a bit harsh. Maybe a hard cap of 7 days instead of 30. I DO however VERY much like the fact that the fatigue mechanic has caused the collapse of and contraction of most of the pre existing null-blocs. Yes, it has had it's intended effect, I am ok with that. Now, how do we make jump bridges worth having without going back to having 250 archon blobs moving all across the map in 15mins.
I like making things explode.
Kari Trace
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
317
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Posted - 2015.08.12 14:58:06 -
[200] - Quote
Can we get a link where we can watch later?
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
315
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Posted - 2015.08.12 15:35:23 -
[201] - Quote
Usually the Sounding Board is recorded on TS, then hosted on Soundcloud or a direct download service.
If it's being streamed on Twitch, hopefully that means the stream will be saved and we can just reference that. |
Hobbitude
Maple Moose The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2015.08.12 17:00:01 -
[202] - Quote
I unfortunately missed this but I sure hope we address a few things. A lot of people seem to want to tackle all the problems now but until some missing pieces are implemented, it is difficult to know for sure how it is best to address.
This new system granted it needs adjustment (insert interesting content here) is forcing entities to live in a smaller footprint. That is fine in principle. That said, from a transportation standpoint, jump bridges usage went from crazy high to probably 5-10% of what it was (I am being generous). I would heavily reduce fatigue similar to a JF or remove it entirely. If a large entity owns 1 constellation, who cares if that JB network makes it easy to travel in it?? Its a substantial quality of life improvement for resident while having little to no impact on force projection.
For capitals, I would either look at reduced fatigue (say 20% less) or same fatigue with increased range (say +2LY). Something not too drastic so CCP can evaluate the impact and adjust if needed. They keep flashing that increased iteration speed as an advantage. Capitals/force projection is important enough to try and find a better situation without reverting back completely (or maintaining current status quo).
Once capitals are rebalanced and we have the structures, then we can have a good idea of what additional changes could be needed. |
Baki Yuku
Boob Heads Black Legion.
34
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Posted - 2015.08.12 17:03:22 -
[203] - Quote
Hello, Baki Yuku of Black Legion rental overlord and fc thereof. I have a question for CCP regarding the jump-changes where CCP repeatedly stated moving should not be easy which just seems a bit silly to me because CCPGÇÖs version of GÇ£difficultGÇ¥ seems to be more time consuming and tedious instead of actual difficulty in any meaning full way. Why is it that a game should be GÇ£difficultGÇ¥ which in CCP words means time consuming to the point where it feels like having a second job? Should game not first and foremost be about fun? Spending 6-10 hours on a move op is not fun. Being more or less forced to destroy or entire dreadnought fleet in Venal and having to rebuild them in lowsec because it is economically sound and for the sake of our memberGÇÖs sanity to do so is not fun either. You might say well you had the choice between moving them or insuring them and blowing them up to rebuild them in lowsec but it really was not a choice. It was a GÇ£forcedGÇ¥ choice so to speak. It allowed us to preserve the sanity of our members at the expanse of my own. |
Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
98
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Posted - 2015.08.12 17:53:15 -
[204] - Quote
As I see it as I listen to the round table.
Home field advantage should have massive reduced Jump Fatigue when using JB no matter the ship.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
1015
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Posted - 2015.08.12 17:53:24 -
[205] - Quote
[17:47:46] EVE System > Xenuria was muted by corbexx Effective until: 2015.08.12 18:17 Reason: "shoes"
I didn't even ask about shoes. Clearly the CSM needs reform to prevent this sort of abuse and over zealous moderation. My voice matters just as much as anybody elses. I didn't even ask about shoes, I didn't ask about anything. I pointed out that the stream was down.
REFORM THE CSM
CSM 11 Candidate
My Lore Predictions
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Lord Longus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.08.12 18:07:10 -
[206] - Quote
if there's still a possibility to ask a question:
Is it possible to generate jumpfatigue only when doing a regional jump e.g. from Metropolis -> The Forge but jumpes within the same region do not generate fatigue or it gets a bonus of e.g. 50% less fatigue?
In my opinion that would still make it hard to move across multiple regions but makes it possible to move faster within the same region and therefore make it easier to generate local (3 regions according to CCP Larrikin) content |
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die Suddenly Spaceships.
200
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Posted - 2015.08.12 19:22:06 -
[207] - Quote
USS YORKTOWN wrote:Given the developement of various space chokepoints as a result of the reduced number of viable transit paths through low is there any thought to adjusting range to increase potential paths?
As is we have places like Aradia making the life of a super pilot one of waiting, boredom, and debating suicide.
instead of thinking its a game mechanic issue why dont you think about restricting the amount of api data available or data full stop. its crazy that you can go on the map for instance and see every cyno lit in the entire universe, or see all pod kills, or see npc kills. In reality you would never know this information. Just keep api data to pure stats not player stats, its silly that all this info is available.
There is far too much intel available. |
PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
70
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Posted - 2015.08.12 19:25:08 -
[208] - Quote
http://www.netsky.org/CCPJFRT.zip
RAW, UnCut, Full Length. CCP/CSM Round Table: Jump Fatigue 2 hours 2 minutes. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2930
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:53:48 -
[209] - Quote
https://soundcloud.com/mike-azariah/jump
done and yes I know that the voice over is distracting, I honestly do not hear it anymore unless it is pointed out. It was just background noise for me.
I will do better next time (if there is a next time)
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
20
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:06:34 -
[210] - Quote
Well it seems that CCP havent answered any question in particular and limit their answers to evasive manouvers.
The point is not only the the jump fatigue for itself but the limited LY that capitals can jump. I can understand their concerns, however something should be done regardind for those who only wish to move assets to or from null sec/low sec/high sec, and that part as not been looked as it should.
Mobility from and to null sec are needed in order to people can move their things, If there is no mobility and the risk are too high, of course nobody will move anything and null sec will be empty in a short matter of time ( it is now in fact).
Null sec markets never worked as intended, but theres one part of null where null sec market works but that comes with a cost where only a few have become rich(trilionaires) and the others must do what they are told.
One of the problems are most of the people dont care about pvp, i can understand them and I can undurstand those who really want to make pvp, but the reallity in eve is other, everytime some group tries to make some pvp they are literally ganked by hotdrops and that is not pvp. That way are demotivating for who are trying to start on pvp, as they always ends on the same way, no matter what they do, its high skilled and trained pvpeers in a large superior numbers against no trained at all new pvpeers.
Small entities as CCP call the small alliances, are not going to be able to estabilish in null sec, at least for medium or long periods due the anterior and that new sov mechanichs. CCP are convicted that unused systems are the main problem or the renter alliances, but thats not true and they know that, systems are not in use just because they are not providing anything usefull to players as they have done 4 or 5 year ago where all systems are equal and the upgrades will upgrade only that system giving the real benefit to who work on that system.
Four years ago almost everybody as what are looking for, pvpeers, miners, explorers industrialists, traders etc, now almost anyone are getting what are looking for, and that is very bad for the game.
CCP have created and feeded the monster, now they havent any clue on how to dominate that monster and, the worst part of this story is, that said monster have dominated CCP.
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