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Solo Pirating in Revelations- week one

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Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 11:35:00 - [1] I'm not here to discuss PvP, or pirating in giant gate camps with instalocking remote boosted frigs or bubbled gates in 0.0. I'm here to discuss solo/small gang piracy in low-sec and what's become of it since the new patch. For me personally it has completely disappeared. I had to wait a week to get Recon Probe Launchers (RPLs) seeded, so I could go after mission runners. Doesn't matter now anyway, as all the mission runners have disappeared into high-sec. I can't follow them there (yet) because I'm -10.00. I don't have anyone to shoot at. Zero. There's more traffic in low sec now, but that's an illusion. Haulers go from gate to station, instadock, turn around and leave. Where before I might ahve stood a chance at nabbing one or two that didn't have instas, now I'm assured that I don't get the opportunity, no matter how small it might have been before. Rarely does someone go ratting in a belt, and when they do, they're always aligned to the gate/station, and are usually in warp before I even get warped into the belt proper. Straight to the station and gate, with no chance to persue them. I dislike 0.0 because of the bubbles and bubble camps, but it looks like that is all that remains for me to do. Not bubblecamp mind you, but ply 0.0 systems in search of targets. I spend half my time in 0.0 anyway, but that's fighting fleet battles and such for my alliance. I do that to support them, but I enjoy solo pirating in low-sec as my main style of gameplay. Lately I see less and less reason to undock. In my opinion this game is increasingly becoming one of PvP by consent only. Might as well make special arenas and 'battle grounds' and completely convert to WoW's design, we're already half way there. I have jump clones in the four major circuits of low-sec in Amarr / Gallente / Caldari / Minmatar space. I'm not just suffering in a single system devoid of targets. I move around a lot using warp to 0km to my advantage to traverse high-sec in search of targets in remote low-sec systems. There just isn't anything to shoot at anymore. As soon as I get into a system, everyone is docked / safespotted / on their way to the high-sec gate. Bring back solo piracy to EvE CCP. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:08:00 - [2] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 07/12/2006 12:08:25 I'm anti-pirate myself, but I agree with you pretty much. From the "other side of the fence", there's simply no point in going to lowsec nowadays, other than to hunt pirates . Missions are stupidly risky, and in general 0.0 is a lot more rewarding and safer (bar the occasional bubble). Mining... yeah, sometimes, but that's with a "carebears with teeth" mining group that a solo pirate can't handle (many have tried). So unless the probes + missions thing is fixed so that running lowsec missions makes risk/rewards sense, lowsec will stay a wasteland and you won't get any targets. In other words, you're screwed, welcome to either highsec or 0.0. I used to run missions in 0.2. Don't anymore, doesn't make sense.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:11:00 - [3] 0.0 is more fun tbh. when you get to know a region well, you know where the camps will be, where the npcers are , the routes of haulers, stations etc. much more fun imo. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Bad Borris	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:29:00 - [4] Cant say i can muster much sympathy for the pirates but i do agree that there should be an opportunity for more pirating in the game. the issue is that mission runners are aware of the new probing system ad with the number of 'pirates' out their it is akin to suicide to start doing lvl 4's in low sec. I think one of the main issues is that you want to solo pirate but eve is becoming relentlessly team oriented (given the new hp increase and the attempt to lenghten combat). However i think there are also solutions. Stay in 0.0 a while longer and try out the new exploration feature. I am sure you will get the pvp you desire and possibly find something worth doing with npc's which might well fix your sec status too. I think ccp have done all they can for pirates, and the probing feature has been a real buff for you guys so i dont think you have too many reasons to complain. Ccp cannot force free minded individuals to put their ingame lives on the line and venture into low sec. For one thing low sec is more dangerous than 0.0 (at least for a guy who lives in the north of 0.0 like me) especially as most of the pirates are far more skilled and experienced than the mission runner. So my final suggestion is pick on someone your own size as there are no shortage of people who want to fight. It is all about fighting in conditions favorable to the player. Heading out to do a lvl 4 mission in low sec does not lead to favorable conditions for the mission runner forced into pvp...
Aleksei Thraddash Minmatar Staboholics Anonymous	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:31:00 - [5] Lowsec empire really needs some love, at the moment it is just pointless to be there at all. Missions give only slightly more Isk/hour than in highsec and are riskier than npcing in 0.0 and the belts are just crap. The only people youll find there are newbies who dont know better. IMO the best way would be to add lowend BS spawns and better ores to the belts in 0.1 and to spread out the agents some more.
Samurai1	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:39:00 - [6] Probing has only scared of mission runners its helped reduce lag. After all did you effectively probe a mission running ship before the patch anyways. They make probes the way they use to be then mission runners come back into low sec, guys trying out the mini-professions are shafted. And your still stuck not knowing how to bust their deadspaces. This patch has really nerfed my ability to solo, i cant use stabs im not using nice expensive ships cos im not prepared to be pinned down with one point and ganked by several ships. Infact the only good thing is that ships like the bb have been nerfed hard and i can actually get a missed cycle or two to use my F1-F8 keys before i vapourise. Really why give stabs a partial nerf why not just prevent them from being able to target ships at all if they were only ment for travel setups ffs.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:46:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/12/2006 12:47:32 I would very much prefer if ccp gave people reasons to be in low sec instead of making the scanning system hard to use. I dont think extra bounties are enough. Low sec needs stuff you cant get anywhere else. You can run complexes and get tons of iskies, but you can make iskies in high sec space doing level 4 missions. So add something people want but cant buy for iskies. I have no idea what that would be though. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/12/2006 12:47:32 I would very much prefer if ccp gave people reasons to be in low sec instead of making the scanning system hard to use. I dont think extra bounties are enough. Low sec needs stuff you cant get anywhere else. You can run complexes and get tons of iskies, but you can make iskies in high sec space doing level 4 missions. So add something people want but cant buy for iskies. I have no idea what that would be though. :) So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. IMO I see nothing wrong at all with doubling the bounties on low-sec rats and adding a lot more of the mid range minerals to the belts, along with a sprinkling of the rare stuff. No mercoxit, but maybe a little arkonor and bistot etc., like 1-2% of the total minerals in a .4 system, just enough to indeed be there in the belts if you went looking for it. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:54:00 - [9] "Due to concenr with current over militarization concord decide to banish all ships above cruiser form high sec".. ok problem solved (i know its crap.. but any solution ssomeone will find crap.. this is at least a solution thateveryon ewill have same opinion about)
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:55:00 - [10] Edited by: slothe on 07/12/2006 12:56:54 Originally by: Aleksei Thraddash IMO the best way would be to add lowend BS spawns and better ores to the belts in 0.1 and to spread out the agents some more. /signed and also make lvl 4 missions more profitable and move them all to lowsec *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*

Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:59:00 - [11] 2 spaces.. Hisec and Nosec .. problem solved! "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Bellum Eternus So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. And this wouldn't increase your targets any, so why ask for it? People who don't want to PvP simply won't go and everyone else will only do missions in groups, thus not giving you any solo targets anyway. Either way you're screwed. The only real solution is to treble the benefits of low sec mission running. Make it worth the while of the solo mission runner to be there even though he knows you might be waiting. Originally by: Bellum Eternus IMO I see nothing wrong at all with doubling the bounties on low-sec rats and adding a lot more of the mid range minerals to the belts, along with a sprinkling of the rare stuff. No mercoxit, but maybe a little arkonor and bistot etc., like 1-2% of the total minerals in a .4 system, just enough to indeed be there in the belts if you went looking for it. This sounds very sensible to me. Personally I'd just change the scaling of rats across the board, so you actually get BS spawns appearing between 0.2 to 0.3 and then not only do you have profitable targets for ratters, you've also got targets that take a while to kill, thus making it easier for a pirate to catch someone in a belt. Combine these changes with improved rewards for the current low sec missions and you'll have many more targets in next to no time.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Bellum Eternus So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. IMO I see nothing wrong at all with doubling the bounties on low-sec rats and adding a lot more of the mid range minerals to the belts, along with a sprinkling of the rare stuff. No mercoxit, but maybe a little arkonor and bistot etc., like 1-2% of the total minerals in a .4 system, just enough to indeed be there in the belts if you went looking for it. Personally I would like it, but there are MANY mission runners in this game that wants to be left alone to collect their iskies in peace. I think the game probably have lots more of those than it has pirates. It could be dangerus for ccp to make such a move... I bet most people who dont want to take risks would leave the game. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Bellum Eternus So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. In practice, that would kill off mission running and probably cause a massive flood of cancellations. The majority of this game consists of mission runners, pvpers are a small (but vocal) minority. Just the way it is, like it or not. And there is no way you can force those people to become targets for you, they'll just quit and do something that's more fun for them. There's a lot of competition in the game market. Maybe you'd be glad to see those "carebears" gone, but I don't think you'd like the results of CCP suddenly losing say, half of the players. At least not in the long run.
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:02:00 - [15] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 07/12/2006 13:03:46 Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. The backlash from the highsec 'bears would be nasty, but it would fix the problem. You'd get less high sec lag, no more making more money in high sec than you do in some 0.0 regions, with more people in low sec, leading to more legitimate piracy and a low sec economy. Everybodies a winner, cept for the WoW crowd who want to grind to an arbitary database entry in perfect safety for no good reason. Big loss. EDIT - Bah, somebody said it first. I take too long typing... ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Ulair Memmet	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:07:00 - [16] I like the idea that the lvl3/4 missions have to be in lowsec. Empire should only exist for not so much experienced players who have to get to know EVE. The general rule: More risk <=> More isk (=more fun) ------------------------ I never used Ctrl + Q and im PROUD OF IT
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Ulair Memmet The general rule: More risk <=> More isk (=more fun) Agreed. Problem is, currently low-sec missions offer much more risk than 0.0, and much less reward. As a consequence, lowsec is emptying. In order to get people there, the rewards need to match the risks. And if the risks are at 0.0 level (or above), the rewards also need to be at 0.0 level at the very least. Simple as that.
Velsharoon Gallente Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance. Mission runners could gang up, keep an eye on local...you know like the pirates do :)
Sadistic Mistress New Beginning INC SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:14:00 - [20] Low sec was something to be fearfull of when i first started, my current ship is a prophecy, its a pretty slow bird, but now thankfully i can travel through lowsec without much to get upset about.

Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance. Fair enough. Nerf the probes then, I think a small nerf is in the works already. Or change the rules. Hell, I'd be happy with pirates being barred from entering other peoples missions full stop if it meant lvl4s were moved to lowsec. It'd make killing missioners much harder (what with wtz when returning from missions and redocking if you're caught when setting out on one) but at least there'd be more traffic. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Velsharoon Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance. Mission runners could gang up, keep an eye on local...you know like the pirates do :) Doesn't work, in practice. Sure, you can gang up, but since the mission rewards as scaled so as to be ok for solo players, your isk/hour drops to abysmal levels if you start doing missions as a group. It's already much lower that 0.0 ratting for solo players, in most cases. Also, there's the critical thing of missions being long, being tied to specific objectives, having a time window, and costing you lots of standings if you fail them. You can trivially safespot in 0.0 while ratting each time you get a hostile on local -- most of 0.0 is empty, and you're not really interrupting anything. If you start to safespot every time a hostile shows up on mission (on local), you'll spend all your time in warp So yeah, theoretically you could gather a largish gang and do lvl4 missions, and have enough firepower and tanking to also take on player pirates. Problem is, it doesn't make any sort of sense iskwise; it can be fun now and then as a way to relax, but otherwise it's pointless, the rewards become pitifully small compared to pretty much anything else. If mission rats were to aggressively change aggro to newcomers (so that pirates would also face the quite significant DPS from the rats), things might be a bit better. But they don't, so pirates are left holding all the cards. They know what tank the missioner has, they don't have to worry about the npcs, they can take their time -- the missioner isn't going anywhere, missions can take hours to complete. So... nice theory, but doesn't work out. I'm not saying this in a sarcastic way, your comment was good. I'm just pointing out that with the system the way it currently is, it isn't really a workable solution except in some very specific and rare cases.
Phoenix Jones	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:33:00 - [23] It was stated before that you Can't force people to go into lowsec. This is a PVP game, but there are ALLOT of people who DO NOT want to PVP. You really can't force them to go do it. Many people also speak that this is a MMO (massively multiplayer), to that I can say that the solo pirate may have to actually group together if they want to stand a chance at doing things. Scanning had an unexpected effect, which basically drove most of the Mission Runners Out of Lowsec. If CCP actually addresses this issue in someway, then yea you'll probably get your solo pirating targets back. But most likely Lowsec is still going to be a lonely place of Warp Bubbles. Extra Note: Moving level 3 and 4 agents into lowsec will only destroy a large part of the Eve Community. Presently there is nothing wrong with running missions in high-sec space. If thats how an individual wants to spend their time.. Then so be it. It is not our place, or prerogative to tell them that they are Not spending their time in a productive pvp kind of way. In the history of MMO games that have pvp. Many Upon Many people do not want to go PVP. People like content, like the familiar, like to do things that They Find Fun. If a person Does not Find PVP Fun, why the hell should we go Force them to PVP. I do Not Like PVP I do Not want CCP to say "Ok, We moved your Fun, Go PVP" This benefits you to no degree, nor me and half the playerbase. Lowsec may have some people attempting to do missions, but once you've had your week of fun ganking people who try to enjoy themselves... They will become alienated and leave. We have ALLOT of options out there. The objective (reason) we play games is to relax, to enjoy ourselves, to play with our friends. If PVP is not on that list, and CCP (or you) decide to force the issue, we'll just go somewhere else. We want this game to grow in both scope and view. We want more people to join in and contribute to the Eve Universe. I am sorry but this game is not solely about getting people to die to pirates in lowsec. It is as Simple as that. ---------------The Low Sec Issue------------- Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Nero Scuro Fair enough. Nerf the probes then, I think a small nerf is in the works already. Or change the rules. Hell, I'd be happy with pirates being barred from entering other peoples missions full stop if it meant lvl4s were moved to lowsec. It'd make killing missioners much harder (what with wtz when returning from missions and redocking if you're caught when setting out on one) but at least there'd be more traffic. I agree with you. I used to run missions in 0.1/0.2 (besides pvp and other stuff). I'd like to do it again, missions are a fun way to unwind now and then (though they become boring fast), and I generally prefer lowsec to highsec. I just made the risk/reward evaluation with the new probe system, and decided that lowsec missions don't make sense at the moment. I can't kit for solo lvl4s and solo pvp at the same time. So I moved my missioning to highsec. Don't especially like it, but what can you do? I'd love to see a balance tweak that made lowsec missioning "make sense" again. It's generally more fun when you have to be a bit on your toes all the time. That "a bit" is the critical thing. I'm fine with having to watch local and be careful in general. But I can't watch local, run the scanner nonstop for probes, and fight off the harder lvl4 mission NPCs at the same time. All this said, I haven't run missions all that much pre-Revelations either. Too many Empire war decs to deal with.
Bad Borris	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:34:00 - [25] OK so i have commented on this topic in other threads so i am just gonna reiterate my views again. The pirate already has all the advantage over the mission runner because the mission runner normally does not have as much sp and as a result anything that actually prohibits people from making reasonable money in high sec as a fighter would result in carnage as hundreds of mission runners get routinely ganked. This would, in the end result in a loss of subscribers to eve, and, as others have said this would be bad for everyone. Mission runners are not carebears they are low sp players. Notice it is the people with a **** load of sp that most often shout crap about carebears. The merciless skill tree prohibits pvp for a while and i think we are all agreed that it should not be dumbed down. There are not many people who are trained to do lvl 4 missions for a living who are not thinking about pvp in the future. I do agree with some of the suggestions to make low sec more profitable and the comments about increasing bounties and add better minerals are decent suggestions. But it would be counter productive to move all level 3 and 4 missions to low sec and would practically ruin the game for a vast number of players who just want to skill in peace for the benefit of the few-pirates who, as had been said, are some of the most vocal supporters of their particular profession and, not co-incidentally are also the best able to defend their particular slice of eve due to ccp who ARE very pirate friendly and who have provided vast areas of 0.0 just for that kind of activity. So if you are a pirate you have considerably less to complain about than most.... Unless of course you fly amaar.....
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:39:00 - [26] Quote: Moving level 3 and 4 agents into lowsec will only destroy a large part of the Eve Community. Presently there is nothing wrong with running missions in high-sec space. If thats how an individual wants to spend their time.. Then so be it. It is not our place, or prerogative to tell them that they are Not spending their time in a productive pvp kind of way. In the history of MMO games that have pvp. Many Upon Many people do not want to go PVP. People like content, like the familiar, like to do things that They Find Fun. The problem isn't forcing PvEers to PvP, it's one of risk vs rewards. I suppose they could reduce lvl4 mission rewards in high-sec, they'd still have just as much 'fun', wouldn't you agree..? ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Nero Scuro I suppose they could reduce lvl4 mission rewards in high-sec, they'd still have just as much 'fun', wouldn't you agree..? Umm, they already are greatly reduced. The higher the system sec status, the less the mission rewards are. 0.1 missions give a lot more LPs and isk than 1.0. That used to be a working balance for the increased risk you took when moving around in lowsec, and it used to be enough reason to mission in lowsec. Not worth it anymore, though.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:47:00 - [28] - probing deadspace pockets needs to become more difficult again - increase rewards in low sec e.g. with rig components and exploration - well, guess the standing display in local is a piracy killer. If I was a pirate and too many people would run away because of that, I'd play in a nub corp. I think, I'd just make an informal corp that shows up in the bio and contains my alts. But something like that shouldn't be needed imho. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:47:00 - [29] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro I suppose they could reduce lvl4 mission rewards in high-sec, they'd still have just as much 'fun', wouldn't you agree..? Umm, they already are greatly reduced. The higher the system sec status, the less the mission rewards are. 0.1 missions give a lot more LPs and isk than 1.0. That used to be a working balance for the increased risk you took when moving around in lowsec, and it used to be enough reason to mission in lowsec. Not worth it anymore, though. It wasn't a serious question. I was just pointing out that all most people find 'fun' about lvl4 missions is the ISK. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:59:00 - [30] Pirates would have a lot more action in low sec if they couldnt get in mission dead space. They would also have a lot more action if they rewards for low sec missions were increased 10 fold that way people would fly them in groups. Wherever you went - here you are.



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