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Solo Pirating in Revelations- week one

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Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 11:35:00 - [1] I'm not here to discuss PvP, or pirating in giant gate camps with instalocking remote boosted frigs or bubbled gates in 0.0. I'm here to discuss solo/small gang piracy in low-sec and what's become of it since the new patch. For me personally it has completely disappeared. I had to wait a week to get Recon Probe Launchers (RPLs) seeded, so I could go after mission runners. Doesn't matter now anyway, as all the mission runners have disappeared into high-sec. I can't follow them there (yet) because I'm -10.00. I don't have anyone to shoot at. Zero. There's more traffic in low sec now, but that's an illusion. Haulers go from gate to station, instadock, turn around and leave. Where before I might ahve stood a chance at nabbing one or two that didn't have instas, now I'm assured that I don't get the opportunity, no matter how small it might have been before. Rarely does someone go ratting in a belt, and when they do, they're always aligned to the gate/station, and are usually in warp before I even get warped into the belt proper. Straight to the station and gate, with no chance to persue them. I dislike 0.0 because of the bubbles and bubble camps, but it looks like that is all that remains for me to do. Not bubblecamp mind you, but ply 0.0 systems in search of targets. I spend half my time in 0.0 anyway, but that's fighting fleet battles and such for my alliance. I do that to support them, but I enjoy solo pirating in low-sec as my main style of gameplay. Lately I see less and less reason to undock. In my opinion this game is increasingly becoming one of PvP by consent only. Might as well make special arenas and 'battle grounds' and completely convert to WoW's design, we're already half way there. I have jump clones in the four major circuits of low-sec in Amarr / Gallente / Caldari / Minmatar space. I'm not just suffering in a single system devoid of targets. I move around a lot using warp to 0km to my advantage to traverse high-sec in search of targets in remote low-sec systems. There just isn't anything to shoot at anymore. As soon as I get into a system, everyone is docked / safespotted / on their way to the high-sec gate. Bring back solo piracy to EvE CCP. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:08:00 - [2] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 07/12/2006 12:08:25 I'm anti-pirate myself, but I agree with you pretty much. From the "other side of the fence", there's simply no point in going to lowsec nowadays, other than to hunt pirates . Missions are stupidly risky, and in general 0.0 is a lot more rewarding and safer (bar the occasional bubble). Mining... yeah, sometimes, but that's with a "carebears with teeth" mining group that a solo pirate can't handle (many have tried). So unless the probes + missions thing is fixed so that running lowsec missions makes risk/rewards sense, lowsec will stay a wasteland and you won't get any targets. In other words, you're screwed, welcome to either highsec or 0.0. I used to run missions in 0.2. Don't anymore, doesn't make sense.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:11:00 - [3] 0.0 is more fun tbh. when you get to know a region well, you know where the camps will be, where the npcers are , the routes of haulers, stations etc. much more fun imo. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Bad Borris	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:29:00 - [4] Cant say i can muster much sympathy for the pirates but i do agree that there should be an opportunity for more pirating in the game. the issue is that mission runners are aware of the new probing system ad with the number of 'pirates' out their it is akin to suicide to start doing lvl 4's in low sec. I think one of the main issues is that you want to solo pirate but eve is becoming relentlessly team oriented (given the new hp increase and the attempt to lenghten combat). However i think there are also solutions. Stay in 0.0 a while longer and try out the new exploration feature. I am sure you will get the pvp you desire and possibly find something worth doing with npc's which might well fix your sec status too. I think ccp have done all they can for pirates, and the probing feature has been a real buff for you guys so i dont think you have too many reasons to complain. Ccp cannot force free minded individuals to put their ingame lives on the line and venture into low sec. For one thing low sec is more dangerous than 0.0 (at least for a guy who lives in the north of 0.0 like me) especially as most of the pirates are far more skilled and experienced than the mission runner. So my final suggestion is pick on someone your own size as there are no shortage of people who want to fight. It is all about fighting in conditions favorable to the player. Heading out to do a lvl 4 mission in low sec does not lead to favorable conditions for the mission runner forced into pvp...
Aleksei Thraddash Minmatar Staboholics Anonymous	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:31:00 - [5] Lowsec empire really needs some love, at the moment it is just pointless to be there at all. Missions give only slightly more Isk/hour than in highsec and are riskier than npcing in 0.0 and the belts are just crap. The only people youll find there are newbies who dont know better. IMO the best way would be to add lowend BS spawns and better ores to the belts in 0.1 and to spread out the agents some more.
Samurai1	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:39:00 - [6] Probing has only scared of mission runners its helped reduce lag. After all did you effectively probe a mission running ship before the patch anyways. They make probes the way they use to be then mission runners come back into low sec, guys trying out the mini-professions are shafted. And your still stuck not knowing how to bust their deadspaces. This patch has really nerfed my ability to solo, i cant use stabs im not using nice expensive ships cos im not prepared to be pinned down with one point and ganked by several ships. Infact the only good thing is that ships like the bb have been nerfed hard and i can actually get a missed cycle or two to use my F1-F8 keys before i vapourise. Really why give stabs a partial nerf why not just prevent them from being able to target ships at all if they were only ment for travel setups ffs.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:46:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/12/2006 12:47:32 I would very much prefer if ccp gave people reasons to be in low sec instead of making the scanning system hard to use. I dont think extra bounties are enough. Low sec needs stuff you cant get anywhere else. You can run complexes and get tons of iskies, but you can make iskies in high sec space doing level 4 missions. So add something people want but cant buy for iskies. I have no idea what that would be though. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/12/2006 12:47:32 I would very much prefer if ccp gave people reasons to be in low sec instead of making the scanning system hard to use. I dont think extra bounties are enough. Low sec needs stuff you cant get anywhere else. You can run complexes and get tons of iskies, but you can make iskies in high sec space doing level 4 missions. So add something people want but cant buy for iskies. I have no idea what that would be though. :) So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. IMO I see nothing wrong at all with doubling the bounties on low-sec rats and adding a lot more of the mid range minerals to the belts, along with a sprinkling of the rare stuff. No mercoxit, but maybe a little arkonor and bistot etc., like 1-2% of the total minerals in a .4 system, just enough to indeed be there in the belts if you went looking for it. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:54:00 - [9] "Due to concenr with current over militarization concord decide to banish all ships above cruiser form high sec".. ok problem solved (i know its crap.. but any solution ssomeone will find crap.. this is at least a solution thateveryon ewill have same opinion about)
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:55:00 - [10] Edited by: slothe on 07/12/2006 12:56:54 Originally by: Aleksei Thraddash IMO the best way would be to add lowend BS spawns and better ores to the belts in 0.1 and to spread out the agents some more. /signed and also make lvl 4 missions more profitable and move them all to lowsec *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*

Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:59:00 - [11] 2 spaces.. Hisec and Nosec .. problem solved! "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Bellum Eternus So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. And this wouldn't increase your targets any, so why ask for it? People who don't want to PvP simply won't go and everyone else will only do missions in groups, thus not giving you any solo targets anyway. Either way you're screwed. The only real solution is to treble the benefits of low sec mission running. Make it worth the while of the solo mission runner to be there even though he knows you might be waiting. Originally by: Bellum Eternus IMO I see nothing wrong at all with doubling the bounties on low-sec rats and adding a lot more of the mid range minerals to the belts, along with a sprinkling of the rare stuff. No mercoxit, but maybe a little arkonor and bistot etc., like 1-2% of the total minerals in a .4 system, just enough to indeed be there in the belts if you went looking for it. This sounds very sensible to me. Personally I'd just change the scaling of rats across the board, so you actually get BS spawns appearing between 0.2 to 0.3 and then not only do you have profitable targets for ratters, you've also got targets that take a while to kill, thus making it easier for a pirate to catch someone in a belt. Combine these changes with improved rewards for the current low sec missions and you'll have many more targets in next to no time.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.07 12:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Bellum Eternus So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. IMO I see nothing wrong at all with doubling the bounties on low-sec rats and adding a lot more of the mid range minerals to the belts, along with a sprinkling of the rare stuff. No mercoxit, but maybe a little arkonor and bistot etc., like 1-2% of the total minerals in a .4 system, just enough to indeed be there in the belts if you went looking for it. Personally I would like it, but there are MANY mission runners in this game that wants to be left alone to collect their iskies in peace. I think the game probably have lots more of those than it has pirates. It could be dangerus for ccp to make such a move... I bet most people who dont want to take risks would leave the game. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Bellum Eternus So move all L3 / L4 mission agents to low-sec, and ensure that no missions from those agents spawn in any high-sec system? That would put an immediate cork in the 'free-isk' fountian and force the mission runners to move into low sec to continue their ISK free for all. In practice, that would kill off mission running and probably cause a massive flood of cancellations. The majority of this game consists of mission runners, pvpers are a small (but vocal) minority. Just the way it is, like it or not. And there is no way you can force those people to become targets for you, they'll just quit and do something that's more fun for them. There's a lot of competition in the game market. Maybe you'd be glad to see those "carebears" gone, but I don't think you'd like the results of CCP suddenly losing say, half of the players. At least not in the long run.
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:02:00 - [15] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 07/12/2006 13:03:46 Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. The backlash from the highsec 'bears would be nasty, but it would fix the problem. You'd get less high sec lag, no more making more money in high sec than you do in some 0.0 regions, with more people in low sec, leading to more legitimate piracy and a low sec economy. Everybodies a winner, cept for the WoW crowd who want to grind to an arbitary database entry in perfect safety for no good reason. Big loss. EDIT - Bah, somebody said it first. I take too long typing... ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Ulair Memmet	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:07:00 - [16] I like the idea that the lvl3/4 missions have to be in lowsec. Empire should only exist for not so much experienced players who have to get to know EVE. The general rule: More risk <=> More isk (=more fun) ------------------------ I never used Ctrl + Q and im PROUD OF IT
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Ulair Memmet The general rule: More risk <=> More isk (=more fun) Agreed. Problem is, currently low-sec missions offer much more risk than 0.0, and much less reward. As a consequence, lowsec is emptying. In order to get people there, the rewards need to match the risks. And if the risks are at 0.0 level (or above), the rewards also need to be at 0.0 level at the very least. Simple as that.
Velsharoon Gallente Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance. Mission runners could gang up, keep an eye on local...you know like the pirates do :)
Sadistic Mistress New Beginning INC SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:14:00 - [20] Low sec was something to be fearfull of when i first started, my current ship is a prophecy, its a pretty slow bird, but now thankfully i can travel through lowsec without much to get upset about.

Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance. Fair enough. Nerf the probes then, I think a small nerf is in the works already. Or change the rules. Hell, I'd be happy with pirates being barred from entering other peoples missions full stop if it meant lvl4s were moved to lowsec. It'd make killing missioners much harder (what with wtz when returning from missions and redocking if you're caught when setting out on one) but at least there'd be more traffic. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Velsharoon Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro Move all level4 missions to low sec, that would solve the problem. I doubt it would. With the current probe system and mission rewards, only brain-dead idiots would run lowsec lvl4s. If mission rewards were doubled or tripled, then maybe. Or if you could get really good stuff from missions (faction loot, whatever). But like it is currently? Not a chance. Mission runners could gang up, keep an eye on local...you know like the pirates do :) Doesn't work, in practice. Sure, you can gang up, but since the mission rewards as scaled so as to be ok for solo players, your isk/hour drops to abysmal levels if you start doing missions as a group. It's already much lower that 0.0 ratting for solo players, in most cases. Also, there's the critical thing of missions being long, being tied to specific objectives, having a time window, and costing you lots of standings if you fail them. You can trivially safespot in 0.0 while ratting each time you get a hostile on local -- most of 0.0 is empty, and you're not really interrupting anything. If you start to safespot every time a hostile shows up on mission (on local), you'll spend all your time in warp So yeah, theoretically you could gather a largish gang and do lvl4 missions, and have enough firepower and tanking to also take on player pirates. Problem is, it doesn't make any sort of sense iskwise; it can be fun now and then as a way to relax, but otherwise it's pointless, the rewards become pitifully small compared to pretty much anything else. If mission rats were to aggressively change aggro to newcomers (so that pirates would also face the quite significant DPS from the rats), things might be a bit better. But they don't, so pirates are left holding all the cards. They know what tank the missioner has, they don't have to worry about the npcs, they can take their time -- the missioner isn't going anywhere, missions can take hours to complete. So... nice theory, but doesn't work out. I'm not saying this in a sarcastic way, your comment was good. I'm just pointing out that with the system the way it currently is, it isn't really a workable solution except in some very specific and rare cases.
Phoenix Jones	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:33:00 - [23] It was stated before that you Can't force people to go into lowsec. This is a PVP game, but there are ALLOT of people who DO NOT want to PVP. You really can't force them to go do it. Many people also speak that this is a MMO (massively multiplayer), to that I can say that the solo pirate may have to actually group together if they want to stand a chance at doing things. Scanning had an unexpected effect, which basically drove most of the Mission Runners Out of Lowsec. If CCP actually addresses this issue in someway, then yea you'll probably get your solo pirating targets back. But most likely Lowsec is still going to be a lonely place of Warp Bubbles. Extra Note: Moving level 3 and 4 agents into lowsec will only destroy a large part of the Eve Community. Presently there is nothing wrong with running missions in high-sec space. If thats how an individual wants to spend their time.. Then so be it. It is not our place, or prerogative to tell them that they are Not spending their time in a productive pvp kind of way. In the history of MMO games that have pvp. Many Upon Many people do not want to go PVP. People like content, like the familiar, like to do things that They Find Fun. If a person Does not Find PVP Fun, why the hell should we go Force them to PVP. I do Not Like PVP I do Not want CCP to say "Ok, We moved your Fun, Go PVP" This benefits you to no degree, nor me and half the playerbase. Lowsec may have some people attempting to do missions, but once you've had your week of fun ganking people who try to enjoy themselves... They will become alienated and leave. We have ALLOT of options out there. The objective (reason) we play games is to relax, to enjoy ourselves, to play with our friends. If PVP is not on that list, and CCP (or you) decide to force the issue, we'll just go somewhere else. We want this game to grow in both scope and view. We want more people to join in and contribute to the Eve Universe. I am sorry but this game is not solely about getting people to die to pirates in lowsec. It is as Simple as that. ---------------The Low Sec Issue------------- Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Nero Scuro Fair enough. Nerf the probes then, I think a small nerf is in the works already. Or change the rules. Hell, I'd be happy with pirates being barred from entering other peoples missions full stop if it meant lvl4s were moved to lowsec. It'd make killing missioners much harder (what with wtz when returning from missions and redocking if you're caught when setting out on one) but at least there'd be more traffic. I agree with you. I used to run missions in 0.1/0.2 (besides pvp and other stuff). I'd like to do it again, missions are a fun way to unwind now and then (though they become boring fast), and I generally prefer lowsec to highsec. I just made the risk/reward evaluation with the new probe system, and decided that lowsec missions don't make sense at the moment. I can't kit for solo lvl4s and solo pvp at the same time. So I moved my missioning to highsec. Don't especially like it, but what can you do? I'd love to see a balance tweak that made lowsec missioning "make sense" again. It's generally more fun when you have to be a bit on your toes all the time. That "a bit" is the critical thing. I'm fine with having to watch local and be careful in general. But I can't watch local, run the scanner nonstop for probes, and fight off the harder lvl4 mission NPCs at the same time. All this said, I haven't run missions all that much pre-Revelations either. Too many Empire war decs to deal with.
Bad Borris	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:34:00 - [25] OK so i have commented on this topic in other threads so i am just gonna reiterate my views again. The pirate already has all the advantage over the mission runner because the mission runner normally does not have as much sp and as a result anything that actually prohibits people from making reasonable money in high sec as a fighter would result in carnage as hundreds of mission runners get routinely ganked. This would, in the end result in a loss of subscribers to eve, and, as others have said this would be bad for everyone. Mission runners are not carebears they are low sp players. Notice it is the people with a **** load of sp that most often shout crap about carebears. The merciless skill tree prohibits pvp for a while and i think we are all agreed that it should not be dumbed down. There are not many people who are trained to do lvl 4 missions for a living who are not thinking about pvp in the future. I do agree with some of the suggestions to make low sec more profitable and the comments about increasing bounties and add better minerals are decent suggestions. But it would be counter productive to move all level 3 and 4 missions to low sec and would practically ruin the game for a vast number of players who just want to skill in peace for the benefit of the few-pirates who, as had been said, are some of the most vocal supporters of their particular profession and, not co-incidentally are also the best able to defend their particular slice of eve due to ccp who ARE very pirate friendly and who have provided vast areas of 0.0 just for that kind of activity. So if you are a pirate you have considerably less to complain about than most.... Unless of course you fly amaar.....
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:39:00 - [26] Quote: Moving level 3 and 4 agents into lowsec will only destroy a large part of the Eve Community. Presently there is nothing wrong with running missions in high-sec space. If thats how an individual wants to spend their time.. Then so be it. It is not our place, or prerogative to tell them that they are Not spending their time in a productive pvp kind of way. In the history of MMO games that have pvp. Many Upon Many people do not want to go PVP. People like content, like the familiar, like to do things that They Find Fun. The problem isn't forcing PvEers to PvP, it's one of risk vs rewards. I suppose they could reduce lvl4 mission rewards in high-sec, they'd still have just as much 'fun', wouldn't you agree..? ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Nero Scuro I suppose they could reduce lvl4 mission rewards in high-sec, they'd still have just as much 'fun', wouldn't you agree..? Umm, they already are greatly reduced. The higher the system sec status, the less the mission rewards are. 0.1 missions give a lot more LPs and isk than 1.0. That used to be a working balance for the increased risk you took when moving around in lowsec, and it used to be enough reason to mission in lowsec. Not worth it anymore, though.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:47:00 - [28] - probing deadspace pockets needs to become more difficult again - increase rewards in low sec e.g. with rig components and exploration - well, guess the standing display in local is a piracy killer. If I was a pirate and too many people would run away because of that, I'd play in a nub corp. I think, I'd just make an informal corp that shows up in the bio and contains my alts. But something like that shouldn't be needed imho. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:47:00 - [29] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nero Scuro I suppose they could reduce lvl4 mission rewards in high-sec, they'd still have just as much 'fun', wouldn't you agree..? Umm, they already are greatly reduced. The higher the system sec status, the less the mission rewards are. 0.1 missions give a lot more LPs and isk than 1.0. That used to be a working balance for the increased risk you took when moving around in lowsec, and it used to be enough reason to mission in lowsec. Not worth it anymore, though. It wasn't a serious question. I was just pointing out that all most people find 'fun' about lvl4 missions is the ISK. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.07 13:59:00 - [30] Pirates would have a lot more action in low sec if they couldnt get in mission dead space. They would also have a lot more action if they rewards for low sec missions were increased 10 fold that way people would fly them in groups. Wherever you went - here you are.

Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Plutoinum - probing deadspace pockets needs to become more difficult again - increase rewards in low sec e.g. with rig components and exploration Agreed on both counts. You should not be easily (or at all?) be able to scan down ship in deadspace pockets, you should need to scan the deadspace itself as you would in general "exploration". Easily getting a fix on the mission runner ship and via that getting automatically warped to the mission entry point it the killer here. And yes, lowsec needs more rewards. Maybe exploration will provide that? Dunno. Quote: - well, guess the standing display in local is a piracy killer. If I was a pirate and too many people would run away because of that, I'd play in a nub corp. I think, I'd just make an informal corp that shows up in the bio. But something like that shouldn't be needed imho. Yeah, local standings are a bit of a pain, but I'm not sure how huge an effect they really have. All the smart people were checking local and standings "manually" in any case, this "just" makes it easier. Or course, the same thing could be said for probes, they are "just" easier to use now so... dunno. I have to agree that a solo pirate's life seems to have become a bit more difficult now, bar the mission runner ganking which is now like shooting fish in a barrel. Once that is gone or balanced, we'll see what the big picture is.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Nero Scuro The problem isn't forcing PvEers to PvP, it's one of risk vs rewards. I suppose they could reduce lvl4 mission rewards in high-sec, they'd still have just as much 'fun', wouldn't you agree..? I would still do level 4 missions in high sec even if the overall rewards were halved. Why? Because I enjoy doing the missions. Of course I could be out in a 0.0 alliance, raking billions in one way or another, but as much as the money is nice, its not quite so satisfying as blasting through a fleet of enemy ships with my mates in a level 4 mission. Sure doing missions with friends in high sec is less profitable (unles you factor in doing more missions quickly, in which case it ain't so bad), but its more fun and thats the reason why we play the game right? And if the game isn't fun, you simply stop playing. I do feel sorry for Bellum that he has a shortage of solo targets, but moving l3 and l4 missions to low sec WON'T change that one bit. People will either fly in groups or go do other more profitable activities in groups. There won't be more solo targets. But if CCP boost, and I mean really, really boost, the rewards for existing missions out in low sec, then people will come and will do missions solo.
Echorest Minmatar Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:16:00 - [33] Hi there, Guess What!!!!! I Run lvl 4 missions in low-sec have done for over a year now. Will continue to do so as well. I also enjoy PVP, my corp wardecs constantly, gets us targets. BUT another reason for me to do lvl 4's. I want people to find me. When they do i'll kill em. There we go, PVP. There are plenty of targets in low sec. We have duped noobs into stealing cans. We have locked people on the jump out of a gate. Hey I have even mined a bit. These changes have affected me not one bit. Just now you have to fight smart. If you want PVP just war dec some alliance. They'll be happy to shoot you. Our corp has recently stopped pirating as we like to shop in high sec. but we reside in low sec. and always will. That and 0.0 anyway. I can appreciate that solo PvP might be a bit tough, but 2 men teams are just fine. All you have to do is find ONE friend and you can kill to your hearts content. We kill at planets, we kill at stations, we kill at gates we kill in the belts. Nothing stops us. and we lose, and we win, such is the way with PVP. Invite people to duels in the slow times. you might be surprised how many accept. Have you not noticed how many people whine about pvp. Well why don't these people PvP each other. I killed a scorp outside station just the other day. that same player then offered me a BC duel 1v1 which i accepted. Kicked his ass but more power to him. There is plenty of non consensual PvP to be had, BUT consensual PvP is NOT a dirty word. And just a reminder. WAR DECLARATION IS NOT CONSENSUAL PVP.
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Phoenix Jones Moving level 3 and 4 agents into lowsec will only destroy a large part of the Eve Community. What is this mission runner "community" that you speak of? You're all solo, in your own little deadspace pocket. You don't interact with anyone unless you want to. This is not a community, its a bunch of people playing EVE in single player mode making unhealthy amounts of ISK while doing it. There was another thread asking for mission runners to boycott the rest of EVE because of the scan probe situation. Funny, isn't that exactly what they're doing in the first place? I agree that griefing of key mission loot is wrong, and all such items should be restricted to the person who accepts the mission in order to put a stop to it. But closing off deadspace once more is wrong, imho.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Nir What is this mission runner "community" that you speak of? Well you know, a group of people who communicate with each other, play together and generally participate in the game world. Originally by: Nir You're all solo, in your own little deadspace pocket. Running missions with friends is fun! Running missions solo is fun! Having fun is fun! What is wrong with fun? Originally by: Nir You don't interact with anyone unless you want to. MMORPGs do not = everyone in groups. MMORPGs are about choice. People should be able to choose whether to interect or not. Given how some members of the eve playerbase behave, choosing not to interact seems like a sensible option. Originally by: Nir This is not a community, No, it is a community. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its not a community. I've experienced more community from a group of solo mission runners and belt ratters in a low sec system than I have in a 0.0 alliance. Originally by: Nir unhealthy amounts of ISK while doing it. Indeed. The 10million ISK an hour I make from missions is far, far, far ,far more money than the pittances 0.0 alliance members make from running complexes. Originally by: Nir I agree that griefing of key mission loot is wrong, and all such items should be restricted to the person who accepts the mission in order to put a stop to it. But closing off deadspace once more is wrong, imho. I agree.
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:50:00 - [36] You can't force people to be ganked. People might be more accepting of lowsec combat if it was combat they stood a chance of winning, but it's nearly always a large gang versus someone who's already under NPC fire. When was the last time you heard of a victim beating a pirate? Yeah, that's why people either embrace PvP and go 0.0, or stay in highsec: because being solo in lowsec already makes you a victim, it's just a question of when. Gang piracy killed solo piracy more than any technical changes.
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.07 14:54:00 - [37] The problem is that low sec traffic is very dependant on low sec mission runners. The scanner change means that hardly anybody is going to risk their gist-x gear in a mission that pays a few percent more than a 0.5 one. The exudos of low sec mission running means that who is going to supply these guys? Who is going to buy the mods that mission runners sell to recycle or resell onwards? Without the mission runners in low sec, the low sec economy takes a hit, effecting many people who work indirectly with mission runners. But what do I care, I spend 90% of my time in 0.0 :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Rustimon	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:02:00 - [38] What about adding lvl 5 and lvl 6 agents. lvl 5 agents offer much more lucrative deals, but can only be found in low-sec. lvl 6 agents offer the same type of missons but more group oriented. Getting a little farther ahead, maybe these lvl 6 agents could have player pirates as kill targets :]
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Nir This is not a community, its a bunch of people playing EVE in single player mode making unhealthy amounts of ISK while doing it. Why are so many people whining about people making ISK running missions? Missions do have risk. More so then jumping some nube in a ship fitted for mining in your T2 assault frig. How many of those same whiners hang out in 0.0 chaining BS spawns to pay for those expensive ships? Don't complain about the way someone else plays the game just because it isn't the way you play it. Low sec pirates screwed themselves. You used to be able to go out in a t1 fitted cruiser and get in a friendly dual. You may lose your ship and may have to pay a ransom to keep your pod, but the loses were acceptable. Now you have to be in a 80 mil ship just to have an even match. Podding is mandatory in order to boost stats on a kill board. If that is the way people want to play, fine. But don't complain about the consequences. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Baleine4Nerver	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:29:00 - [40] i dont understand why the game is moving further away from solo motivated players. CCP must realise that the game offers so much to people who dont want to be part of a corp.. Solo Pirating being one of them.. in fact the game in general is moving away from even small gangs of 2 or 3.. seems you have to vastly outnumber someone to get a kill, or alternatively no one will engage unlees they have odds of 3 - 1. Probably fuelled by things being too expensive no that people just wont risk their ship. I myself like to gang up with a buddy and go roaming to see what we can stir up, and to be honest.. theres not much there. Found a target in belt and he was already making speed to stat. I dont blame warp to zero for this, as I believe anyone playing for longer than a month will soon realise the essentiality of instas. This in IMHO is wrong, ===============================================

Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:29:00 - [41] I have to say I'm 100% against nerfing the probes as they are now. They just got fixed. For God's sake, leave them alone. Mission runners don't need to be any harder to find. There is already a huge margin of safety built into the game. Use the scanner, stay away from the warp in point of your mission/deadspace area. How hard is it? If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
eLLioTT wave Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:35:00 - [42] Easy fix, make lvl4's 0.4-0.0 ONLY and boost the rewards, make the belt rats better loot (not bounty) this encourages close range ships to stick around to loot (increasing risk). Boost 0.0 loot/mission rewards accordingly. Have more missions at planets (the local population is under attack by serpentis oh noes!) Lastly (keep in mind i'm not a pirate) make 0.5 medium sec (not low or high) have concord respond like normal at gates and stations but in belts / planets / missions they take like 2-3 minutes (or something) to respond. All these 10 billions isk faction setups flying around empire with no risk is getting old. Send the goods to low sec and people will follow.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:40:00 - [43] Originally by: eLLioTT wave Easy fix, make lvl4's 0.4-0.0 ONLY and boost the rewards, make the belt rats better loot (not bounty) this encourages close range ships to stick around to loot (increasing risk). Boost 0.0 loot/mission rewards accordingly. Have more missions at planets (the local population is under attack by serpentis oh noes!) This could work providing the boosts are big enough. Overall, it probably would just be more effective to increase the number of level 4 mission agents and boost thier rewards, while leaving high sec alone. Originally by: eLLioTT wave Lastly (keep in mind i'm not a pirate) make 0.5 medium sec (not low or high) have concord respond like normal at gates and stations but in belts / planets / missions they take like 2-3 minutes (or something) to respond. I like this idea. Again this would mean this systems need a boost to rat bounties and rat types, but it sounds pretty good to me. Also, wh restrict it to 0.5 space? Why not make 0.4 to 0.6 medium sec? Originally by: eLLioTT wave All these 10 billions isk faction setups flying around empire with no risk is getting old. Send the goods to low sec and people will follow. Who are these people with these ships? I never bloody see them. Are they space ninjas? Do they only ever play when I'm not online? The reality is that a tiny, tiny, number of mission runners have such ships and fittings.
Jason Marshall Infinite Innovations Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Samurai1 Probing has only scared of mission runners its helped reduce lag. After all did you effectively probe a mission running ship before the patch anyways. They make probes the way they use to be then mission runners come back into low sec, guys trying out the mini-professions are shafted. And your still stuck not knowing how to bust their deadspaces. This patch has really nerfed my ability to solo, i cant use stabs im not using nice expensive ships cos im not prepared to be pinned down with one point and ganked by several ships. Infact the only good thing is that ships like the bb have been nerfed hard and i can actually get a missed cycle or two to use my F1-F8 keys before i vapourise. Really why give stabs a partial nerf why not just prevent them from being able to target ships at all if they were only ment for travel setups ffs. Ahh angery Stababond pilots, is there no sweeter sound? Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
Raquel Smith Caldari Freedom-Technologies Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:48:00 - [45] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Bring back solo piracy to EvE CCP. Your targets have adapted so why don't you?
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:49:00 - [46] Originally by: eLLioTT wave Easy fix, make lvl4's 0.4-0.0 ONLY and boost the rewards, make the belt rats better loot (not bounty) this encourages close range ships to stick around to loot (increasing risk). Boost 0.0 loot/mission rewards accordingly. Have more missions at planets (the local population is under attack by serpentis oh noes!) That could work. Originally by: eLLioTT wave Lastly (keep in mind i'm not a pirate) make 0.5 medium sec (not low or high) have concord respond like normal at gates and stations but in belts / planets / missions they take like 2-3 minutes (or something) to respond. I'd actually advocate dropping the sharp difference at 0.5/0.4, and instituting a sliding scale so that in 1.0 Concord responds at once and with massive force, in 0.1 Concord would respond very slowly if at all and provide at least theoretically tankable DPS instead of auto-death. Also change the game rules so that avoiding/tanking Concord is allowed. This would provide some possible help for people who manage to tank the pirates long enough ("the cavalry is here!") while allowing the pirates more options ("hey, let's just kill the cops and continue!"). This artificial "in 0.5 Concord instakills you but in 0.4 they don't care" line is silly. Originally by: eLLioTT wave All these 10 billions isk faction setups flying around empire with no risk is getting old. You know, I keep hearing about these mythical multibillion mission-running pimpmobiles, but I have the feeling they are in the same place Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster are (Jove space, probably). Never seen one myself, or know anyone who uses anything more fancy that the occasional faction module in their mission ships. I guess these mythical fabulously rich mission runners live somewhere else and play during different times.
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:56:00 - [47] Edited by: Val Erian on 07/12/2006 15:58:08 What i don't understand about Deadspace probing/mission busting is why pirates can WARP into a DS pocket when a Mission runner and any gang mates have to start at the first accelleration gate?! Deadspace is supposed to be were warp drives DON'T work.... if mission busters/pirates had to come in at the accelgate there actually could be some measures taken by the mission runner...such as moving away from the warp in point.... looks like othrs already discussed this point. Originally by: Plutoinum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - probing deadspace pockets needs to become more difficult again - increase rewards in low sec e.g. with rig components and exploration -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed on both counts. You should not be easily (or at all?) be able to scan down ship in deadspace pockets, you should need to scan the deadspace itself as you would in general "exploration". Easily getting a fix on the mission runner ship and via that getting automatically warped to the mission entry point it the killer here
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:01:00 - [48] Hehe, you ppl dont have a clue have you. If you want more ppl in low sec, make them be able to fight the pirates. That would, in the end, give pirates more targets as well... Like it is now: pirate enters system, kills a few and cycles safespots while aggro timer goes out. Then leaves the system under full protection from station and gate-sentrys. If ppl had a chanse of defending themselves, low sec would be populated. A 15 min window is just not enough. -----====----- Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
Larshus Magrus Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:08:00 - [49] My background. I lived on 0.0 space for over a year. I'm takinga break in empire mostly because RL is makiing my 0.0 play impossible atm. That said I find this thread most curious. Pirates pretty much got everything they asked for this patch except the squashing of the warp to 0. Stabs have been completely nerfed. Pirates have been asking for that for ages. Probes are MUCH more effective than they were before.. A pirate can find a target in fractions of the time that it took before. Yes warp to 0 is now currently in, but lets be fair. Nearly everyone out in 0.0 had a full set of instas and safespots anyways. I did as does everyone else. What has happened is simply. Pirates had a HUGE boost this patch. Nothing to whine about here. Period. The EFFECT is that people that used to enter 0.0 that were not in an alliance in alliance controlled territory know this and simply aren't going to be put in a situation where they will lose a conflict most of the time. If you are heading into 0.0 to make isk then you are in a pve setup. You going pvp hunting you are in a pvp setup. No camparison between the two. Its simply NOT practical to fly with a pve setup to make ISK so no one is going to do it. Its instant death. You see a pirate enter and you run like hell, where as before you'd chance it. The problem here is NOT that the pirates or underpowered or lacking in anyway. They have every tool at their disposal now (after constant moaning). Guess what, when it ALL goes your way, no one will want to play with you. Its like paying football as an adult with a bunch of 8 year olds. Simply isn't fun for the 8 year olds. With the current situation the only way to fix this is fix the Risk Vs. Reward for low sec. There are two ways to do this. 1) Nerf the Pirates back to where we were before patch. Remove the scanning, Put the stabs back in. Honestly, this isn't going to happen because the pirate base simply doesnt understand how much the buffs to them have hurt them in the long run, so will resist this. 2) Increase the ISK award so the PvE setups will venture out to make the "big money". Please note that moving lvl 3 and lvl 4 missions will move SOME runners out to 0.0, but not most. If you think risking a faction raven, or even a t2 raven to make 10-20 mil isk on a mission is worth it, you simply don't understand risk vs reward. The reality is most people simply wont run the missions anymore and its not a finacially sound practice. These are my opinions. Hell, they may be wrong. Feel free to disagree.
Seishomaru	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:10:00 - [50] Lol so you guys never saw a Machariel used only to PVP in safe empire? Need to open your eyes. If that is not a multi Billion pwonmobile i don't know what is.

Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Raquel Smith Originally by: Bellum Eternus Bring back solo piracy to EvE CCP. Your targets have adapted so why don't you? I am adapting. I'm ratting my sec back up so I can kill mission runners in HIGH SEC. FFS you ppl are stupid. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:19:00 - [52] Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Hehe, you ppl dont have a clue have you. If you want more ppl in low sec, make them be able to fight the pirates. That would, in the end, give pirates more targets as well... Like it is now: pirate enters system, kills a few and cycles safespots while aggro timer goes out. Then leaves the system under full protection from station and gate-sentrys. If ppl had a chanse of defending themselves, low sec would be populated. A 15 min window is just not enough. If the carebears had half a brain and used probes like the pirates do, they could find all the SSed pirates they wanted. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:30:00 - [53] Edited by: Sendraks on 07/12/2006 16:30:57 Originally by: Bellum Eternus I am adapting. I'm ratting my sec back up so I can kill mission runners in HIGH SEC. FFS you ppl are stupid. See, you're so not looking for a "fair" fight and yet you wonder why people don't play in low sec. I'm not saying piracy should be fair, because in its very essence it isn't, but don't whine on the forums when people don't choose to expose themselves to your style of play. They have every right to avoid you and take options to avoid presenting you with targets. Furthermore, you complain and whine about mission runners having an easy time of it, yet you want exactly the same thing. Easy kills to go on your killboard. How very hypocritical of you.
Rak'Kabal Kain Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:31:00 - [54] Edited by: Rak''Kabal Kain on 07/12/2006 16:31:22 Use a vaga for low-sec work, 0.0 is all gang work as most ppl are 2 scared to fly alone. Most of my kills are people in belts very few are gate ganks, with the new HP boost it takes 2 long to kill ppl on gate b4 my vaga has 2 warp out. Working the belts can still be done, I got 5 kills in one days work but i had to travel some 60 systems to find ppl in belts good thing they had t2 kit so i was able to make some isk. Still trying to fit the Recon launcher on w/o the need for CPU boosters. CCP drop the CPU need on recon launchers!! VC
Zladnick Volkow	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:39:00 - [55] Am I the only one who has a real problem with all this talking of "more risk, more reward"? Do those people even know what the frack they're talking about? You tell me what the great reward is for me bringing my 100m battleship (and that's not even taking any decent mods into consideration) into lowsec for a lvl4? lvl4 missions, give a reward in the millions and the occasional nice loot drop. How many millions? In some of the better missions, in the tens of millions, if you spend the time and clear all of it. In the worst cases, only single digit millions. If I lose my ship to another player who flies into my mission, guess how long it will take me to replace it. If most of my missions are in the tens of millions (most unlikely, but ideal situation), it could take me anywhere from 3-6 missions. Oh wait, what am I going to run those 3-6 missions in? I lost my ship. And that's not even figuring in any decent gear I may have fitted. I guess I will go back to level3's in my battlecruiser until I've scraped enough together for a new ship. That takes a very long time, with lvl3 mission rewards in the single digit millions at best. PvP is essential to EVEs character, however, it should NOT override everything else. There CAN be "risk-free" (lol at this statement btw) mission running and balls-to-the-wall adrenaline-rush PvP in the same game! Isn't that a strange thought? What exactly is it that you mission-haters fear from us mission runners? You took on a career full of risk and decided that we HAVE to suffer risk too because of that? Who the frack are you? If lvl4s are moved to lowsec, the only major source of income is the already crowded market. Not everyone is an economics wiz. Please think before you suggest putting lvl4s in lowsec only.
Hotice	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:03:00 - [56] Hmm... solo pirating is OK but solo missions is not. What kind of standard is this? With the new probs, pirates pretty much chased away their target totally. Do you know why in wildlife predators successful rate for catching a prey is very low? It is because if that rate is too high, predators will kill off all their food source. This is exact reason that low sec is now pretty much empty. CCP made probs too good and violated a rule of nature development between predator and prey. This rule has been true for hundreds of millions of years, what make ccp think it doesn't apply here is beyond me. Or maybe ccp never though pirates would pick up this new 100% effective tool to chase low sec mission runners back to high sec. As for moving lvl 3/4 mission to low sec only. The short term result will make low sec have more people. However, as pirates killing more and more mission runners in low sec with very high rate of successes. Mission runner will simply move on for something less risky or simply quit the game. This might seem to be no big deal for pirates or alike. However, this will hurt CCP bank pretty hard. Think about this: if such change hit server and led to 1000 players quit. That means CCP will lose 14000 USD a month and 168000 USD a year. Do you know how many beers can they buy with that money? Do you honestly think CCP will move high level missions to low sec. only? In reality, such a change will result in a lot more than 1000 will quit since the so called carebears usually have multiple accounts.
Sixtyniner The Movement	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:04:00 - [57] Havn¦t read through all the posts, but I can say that I have no problem finding kills in low sec. You just have to use different metods then before. I get moer kills now then ever ;). Adapt!
Yagsi Sadit	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:11:00 - [58] OK, first, I'll admit it. I didn't read the whole thread. Just the OP and a couple others. But I have to say, my main is still running missions in lowsec, along with quite a few others, also. As people say, EVE is about adapting. Some people "adapted" to the probing change by running away. We adapted in a different way. (Come find out how if you like. ) Maybe you need to adapt too? (Naturally, I'm posting under an alt so you don't just come along and find me. )
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:17:00 - [59] Well I used to run lvl 4 missions in low sec (0.2) and the system used to have quite a few pirates in it... no worries, yeah they sometimes visited my missionpocket... but usually I where at such a distance from the warpin point that they would never reach me. I had instant bookmarks to whereever my agent kept sending me... so no need to warp to zero as I already had that but to help lag ... no problem for me. Now with the reduced rewards ... I have helped some corpmates on their missions, and we where salvaging and looting and quite honestly ... it really did not give that good loot !!!! Loot where a sort of bonus, it helped for the reduced isk you got from missions... now what we have got is increase in risk, while our rewards have actually been reduced !!! Even that I have not lost a ship to pirates in ages ... still the risk is higher both from NPC (that I can't use WCS on) and pirates that can find me faster. Some missions have npc that attack you right after you enter the deadspacepocket, so you are in fight the moment you arrive. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:47:00 - [60] "I'm not here to discuss PvP, or pirating in giant gate camps with instalocking remote boosted frigs or bubbled gates in 0.0. I'm here to discuss solo/small gang piracy in low-sec and what's become of it since the new patch. For me personally it has completely disappeared. I had to wait a week to get Recon Probe Launchers (RPLs) seeded, so I could go after mission runners. Doesn't matter now anyway, as all the mission runners have disappeared into high-sec. I can't follow them there (yet) because I'm -10.00. " Well this is the exact kind of lame gameplay we all knew people were doing but finally someone admits it! Look I know you feel you're entittled for some perverted reason to be able to victimize other players to taker thier hard earned ISK, but you know what? I think you will be very hard pressed to find an eve player who is paying 15 bucks a month to role play the hard working victim. How about you swap places and for the next few months you roll into low sec in a mission set up ship and run missions and be relentlessly ganked losing 100's of millions in ships each *****.... lets see how long you tough it out before you go broke or give up. My god seriously how lame of a gamer are you? You plan to follow them into empire now? ROFLMAO. Seriously grow a pair, there are plenty of gate campers in 0.0 beckoning you to come pirate them, beware though they are ready and waiting and also in pvp ships I know I know it is very scarey for a little carebear pirate like yourself but you didnt honestly beleive people actually enjoyed roleplaying a victim did you? Again until you got the nuts to roleplay the victim role for a few months yourself don;t come here complaining because Most people are sick and tired of pendantic whiners who think they have the right to have a never ending assembly line of player run sheep delivering them money, killmail etc....

James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.07 20:02:00 - [61] shrug Warp to zero broke EVE gameplay. Every time you make pirates life harder, it tends to have the opposite effect of what was intended. Gate sentries didn't stop camps, it merely guaranteed that pirates camped in force with battleships, either tanking or sniping. Can flagging didn't stop ore theft. shrug this isn't much a suprise. And personally, I think WTZ breaks EVE in more ways than just making piracy harder.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.07 21:14:00 - [62] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I have to say I'm 100% against nerfing the probes as they are now. They just got fixed. For God's sake, leave them alone. Mission runners don't need to be any harder to find. There is already a huge margin of safety built into the game. Use the scanner, stay away from the warp in point of your mission/deadspace area. How hard is it? All of what you suggested doesn't work vs. cloaked ships. Don't present the facts one-sidedly, just cause it fits you.
Ms Achura	Posted - 2006.12.07 21:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Zladnick Volkow Am I the only one who has a real problem with all this talking of "more risk, more reward"? Do those people even know what the frack they're talking about? You tell me what the great reward is for me bringing my 100m battleship (and that's not even taking any decent mods into consideration) into lowsec for a lvl4? lvl4 missions, give a reward in the millions and the occasional nice loot drop. How many millions? In some of the better missions, in the tens of millions, if you spend the time and clear all of it. In the worst cases, only single digit millions. If I lose my ship to another player who flies into my mission, guess how long it will take me to replace it. If most of my missions are in the tens of millions (most unlikely, but ideal situation), it could take me anywhere from 3-6 missions. Oh wait, what am I going to run those 3-6 missions in? I lost my ship. And that's not even figuring in any decent gear I may have fitted. I guess I will go back to level3's in my battlecruiser until I've scraped enough together for a new ship. That takes a very long time, with lvl3 mission rewards in the single digit millions at best. PvP is essential to EVEs character, however, it should NOT override everything else. There CAN be "risk-free" (lol at this statement btw) mission running and balls-to-the-wall adrenaline-rush PvP in the same game! Isn't that a strange thought? What exactly is it that you mission-haters fear from us mission runners? You took on a career full of risk and decided that we HAVE to suffer risk too because of that? Who the frack are you? If lvl4s are moved to lowsec, the only major source of income is the already crowded market. Not everyone is an economics wiz. Please think before you suggest putting lvl4s in lowsec only. /signed
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2006.12.07 22:21:00 - [64] Originally by: Seishomaru Lol so you guys never saw a Machariel used only to PVP in safe empire? Need to open your eyes. If that is not a multi Billion pwonmobile i don't know what is. I've seen a few of those, and a Nightmare, since I started salvaging and stealing people's loot a few days back. They're good ones to go for- the pilots are often just trying to get through the missions as fast as possible for the LP -------------------------------------------- 'Friends, when the word of reason has been spoken, there is no place left for retort and resentment and contradiction.' *Odyssey XVIII*
Cpt Fina	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:10:00 - [65] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 07/12/2006 23:10:31 Edited by: Cpt Fina on 07/12/2006 23:10:20 Hi sec/zero risk mission running shouldn't pay near the same amount as the life in low sec does. Living in low sec is risky and thus should bring a greater reward. Remove all ore but veldspar and scordite in 0,5-1,0 completely/partly and cut the isk gained from hi sec missions by half. I don't mind people living in hi-sec. I just hate that they make deacent amounts of money, riskfree, while doing it.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.07 23:23:00 - [66] Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 07/12/2006 23:10:31 Edited by: Cpt Fina on 07/12/2006 23:10:20 Hi sec/zero risk mission running shouldn't pay near the same amount as the life in low sec does. Living in low sec is risky and thus should bring a greater reward. Remove all ore but veldspar and scordite in 0,5-1,0 completely/partly and cut the isk gained from hi sec missions by half. I don't mind people living in hi-sec. I just hate that they make deacent amounts of money, riskfree, while doing it. And how exactly are you making your ISK?
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:07:00 - [67] i suggest you pirates go to work, your all basicaly lazy. try grinding out missions to make a living.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:14:00 - [68] Originally by: Sendraks Edited by: Sendraks on 07/12/2006 16:30:57 Originally by: Bellum Eternus I am adapting. I'm ratting my sec back up so I can kill mission runners in HIGH SEC. FFS you ppl are stupid. See, you're so not looking for a "fair" fight and yet you wonder why people don't play in low sec. I'm not saying piracy should be fair, because in its very essence it isn't, but don't whine on the forums when people don't choose to expose themselves to your style of play. They have every right to avoid you and take options to avoid presenting you with targets. Furthermore, you complain and whine about mission runners having an easy time of it, yet you want exactly the same thing. Easy kills to go on your killboard. How very hypocritical of you. Fair fight? Just the other day I took on a Raven, Drake, Ferox and two maxed out Gallente ECM Blackbirds (I fly Gallente) in a 5v1 fight. It's not about finding a 'fair' fight. It's about finding something to shoot at. Period. I don't get fair fights. I'm always outnumbered and outgunned. Otherwise I would never get the opportunity to shoot ANYTHING. I'm always under fire by the station guns or the gate guns. It's all I can do just to trick the players into aggroing me first so they can't dock, in the hopes of killing them in the next thirty seconds before they un-aggro. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:18:00 - [69] All you pirates in low sec whinging there's no action, why not just shoot each other?. Genius! If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:19:00 - [70] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "I'm not here to discuss PvP, or pirating in giant gate camps with instalocking remote boosted frigs or bubbled gates in 0.0. I'm here to discuss solo/small gang piracy in low-sec and what's become of it since the new patch. For me personally it has completely disappeared. I had to wait a week to get Recon Probe Launchers (RPLs) seeded, so I could go after mission runners. Doesn't matter now anyway, as all the mission runners have disappeared into high-sec. I can't follow them there (yet) because I'm -10.00. " Well this is the exact kind of lame gameplay we all knew people were doing but finally someone admits it! Look I know you feel you're entittled for some perverted reason to be able to victimize other players to taker thier hard earned ISK, but you know what? I think you will be very hard pressed to find an eve player who is paying 15 bucks a month to role play the hard working victim. How about you swap places and for the next few months you roll into low sec in a mission set up ship and run missions and be relentlessly ganked losing 100's of millions in ships each *****.... lets see how long you tough it out before you go broke or give up. My god seriously how lame of a gamer are you? You plan to follow them into empire now? ROFLMAO. Seriously grow a pair, there are plenty of gate campers in 0.0 beckoning you to come pirate them, beware though they are ready and waiting and also in pvp ships I know I know it is very scarey for a little carebear pirate like yourself but you didnt honestly beleive people actually enjoyed roleplaying a victim did you? Again until you got the nuts to roleplay the victim role for a few months yourself don;t come here complaining because Most people are sick and tired of pendantic whiners who think they have the right to have a never ending assembly line of player run sheep delivering them money, killmail etc.... I do kill gatecamps. There's just no ISK in it, just killmails. Killing RA and Goons over and over while I blow up their T1 ships and mods doesn't line my pockets. You're missing the point entirely. I'm not inept, it's not that I 'can't' PVP or that I'm some 'carebear pirate'. It's that I kill for maximum profit. Those mission running carebear f#cks are the most profitable targets, hence I follow them. FFS you ppl (you) are stupid. And I'm not being pedantic. Learn the definition of the word. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.

Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:21:00 - [71] Originally by: Brolly All you pirates in low sec whinging there's no action, why not just shoot each other?. Genius! I did for a bit. They all hide in the stations or leave. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Cpt Fina	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:23:00 - [72] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 08/12/2006 00:23:01 Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 07/12/2006 23:10:31 Edited by: Cpt Fina on 07/12/2006 23:10:20 Hi sec/zero risk mission running shouldn't pay near the same amount as the life in low sec does. Living in low sec is risky and thus should bring a greater reward. Remove all ore but veldspar and scordite in 0,5-1,0 completely/partly and cut the isk gained from hi sec missions by half. I don't mind people living in hi-sec. I just hate that they make deacent amounts of money, riskfree, while doing it. And how exactly are you making your ISK? Trade, ratting, pirating... can't really see how that's relevant in this discussion tho.
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:27:00 - [73] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I do kill gatecamps. There's just no ISK in it, just killmails. Killing RA and Goons over and over while I blow up their T1 ships and mods doesn't line my pockets. You're missing the point entirely. I'm not inept, it's not that I 'can't' PVP or that I'm some 'carebear pirate'. It's that I kill for maximum profit. Those mission running carebear f#cks are the most profitable targets, hence I follow them. FFS you ppl (you) are stupid. And I'm not being pedantic. Learn the definition of the word. Liar. You just follow level4 mission grinders around because they're so cool. At least that's what Nanobotter seems to be saying. What other reason would pirates have to be following them around? (OH YEAH! All that isk you get! Stupid, stupid me) ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Isolda Kargil	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:31:00 - [74] Edited by: Isolda Kargil on 08/12/2006 00:31:29 Originally by: Bellum Eternus [...] Really sorry to hear you can no longer solo pirate in this multiplayer game. If CCP wants to make missions more oriented so that people need to form gangs to fly 'm, then why wouldn't the pirates that prey on them have to make a gang? Advertising space for hire. Contact in game.
Larshus Magrus Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:32:00 - [75] Originally by: James Lyrus shrug Warp to zero broke EVE gameplay. Every time you make pirates life harder, it tends to have the opposite effect of what was intended. Gate sentries didn't stop camps, it merely guaranteed that pirates camped in force with battleships, either tanking or sniping. Can flagging didn't stop ore theft. shrug this isn't much a suprise. And personally, I think WTZ breaks EVE in more ways than just making piracy harder. Bzzt. Wrong. WTZ didn't break gameplay. Scroll back and read my post. Nerfing WCS and Probes did. Pirates are magnitudes of degrees more powerful than they were before. The sheep KNOW this and are running scared. For %#^^#@$ sake people. Its not a hard one to grasp.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:45:00 - [76] The funny thing is that the engine of EvE - risk vs reward - is actually working fine. Hence both high sec and 0.0 seem little affected by Relevation 1, except for maybe an increase in population from low sec refugees. Atm it appears that CCP's primary focus is: 0.0 and alliances Attracting new players \| \| \| With mission running and solo/small group piracy being the bottom of the barrel. 0.0 remains the same despite things like bubble gate camps and alliance blobs simply because with a few hours of mining or ratting you can pay for your losses and make a profit on top. High sec has crap rewards but the risk is sufficiently low that you can replace those rare losses from the lower isk and still come out ahead. So why is low sec so unpopular? I suspect that CCP will soon address - or be forced to address - high sec mission griefing (CCP's words not mine) simple because for every two year old NPC corp mission runner with the 4 bil CNR chaining level 4s getting griefed there are far more new players who are trying out all that EvE has to offer, running missions for standing/isk to get themselves established, who are getting griefed. Like the people who were disrupting the tutorial missions. What we have is two disliked minorities - low sec pirates and mission ****s - who are at each others' throats when CCP is the one who has created the situation and CCP is the only one who can fix it. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.*
TheDevilsJury principle of motion R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:49:00 - [77] Edited by: TheDevilsJury on 08/12/2006 00:49:11 Nerf Probes Move better missions to lowsec Remove Sentries from lowsec people who want to travel can fit stabs gets into flame retardant suit ^^^^ You can hide, but you can't run. ^^^^
Jojin Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.12.08 01:49:00 - [78] Originally by: Seishomaru Lol so you guys never saw a Machariel used only to PVP in safe empire? Need to open your eyes. If that is not a multi Billion pwonmobile i don't know what is. For the record, things are being vastly exaggerated in there. Missions don't give billions of isk, in fact complex running is more profitable and you need key and stuff to do that. Also, a Machariel is only about 400-500 million. I have used them in the past for PvP or PvE. The most appealing aspect was the awesome looks for a Minne skilled pilot.
Alaric Rurk	Posted - 2006.12.08 02:50:00 - [79] Originally by: Velsharoon Mission runners could gang up, keep an eye on local...you know like the pirates do :) Keeping an eye on local may help you to avoid attack but constant fleeing to safe spots (which aren't so safe either) can make it difficult to complete a mission. There's also potential for the pirate to grief your mission (e.g. make it impossible to complete) out of frustration. You can do missions in gangs but only one is actually the mission runner and gets a reward at the end. It chops the profitability way down and you have to wait until you can collect a gang too.
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 04:12:00 - [80] Edited by: Tareen Kashaar on 08/12/2006 04:13:15 On lowsec and rewards: Why not simply detach a system's security status from it's so called "true security status", and spread resources equally about low sec and 0.0 space, i.e. same sized rats and same variants of ore. 0.0 has richer and poorer areas already, and so of course would lowsec... the one difference between lowsec and 0.0 then being the rules of engagement - i.e. sentries and sec status loss, and of course npc infrastructure. Both would be "PVP Zones", so to speak. This would greatly increase people's incentive to go to low sec, without changing a lot of mechanics. I'm all for a much steeper difference between low sec and high sec, but without adjusting low sec rewards to the levels of 0.0 rewards it's just not going to work: If you keep a proportional scale and boost lowsec rewards, 0.0 would in turn become way too profitable. I urge you devs to think about this idea :) That said... Escaping pvp if you don't want it has become far too easy. Another possible fix: Don't let people dock or jump a gate even if they're just being shot at, not just when they've shot someone. Would make sense from an RPG perspective too: "There has been a shooting. No one will go anywhere, we will investigate the matter shortly!" Right? :) That way#, you could at least still catch people at stations or gates as a hunter (pirate or antipirate), and everyone would still enjoy fast travel and no database lag. I remember reading on these forums some months ago that the Devs' plans were to make gates MORE dangerous, not less so... way to go So, if mission running is so fun, then why would moving lvl3 and lvl4 missions to low sec hurt? You could still run lvl2 missions in empire if they're so fun :P But that's not it, right? So... aren't they fun? It is all about the isk, don't try to deny it. You're happy you have a way to make lots of isk without significant risk, and that, dear people, is just plain wrong. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!

Squirl	Posted - 2006.12.08 04:17:00 - [81] I didnt read all, cuz im lazy n'stuff, but i think lvl 5 missions should be released, all in Low Sec, they should be doeable solo, but requires tons of time, payment should be huge. This was it wont ruin the mission runners from the thing they love to do, and the real brave, or clever ones can do them. And it gives us pirates some nice targets.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.12.08 04:47:00 - [82] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Rarely does someone go ratting in a belt, and when they do, they're always aligned to the gate/station, and are usually in warp before I even get warped into the belt proper. Straight to the station and gate, with no chance to persue them. I used to have instas to all the lowsec stations and gates that I frequented belts in. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Curzon Dax Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:06:00 - [83] I read this thread and scoffed. Really. How are pirates anything except bullies looking for someone to victimize? You can't force someone to come play with you, on YOUR turf, with YOU getting the drop on them, fitted in a manner that guarantees that YOU win. You can't draw a parallel between PvP and pirating. Pirating isn't PvP, its victimizing. If you want PvP, its everywhere. Don't say that mission runners should have to PvP, because most of us dabble in it here and there, but on our terms, the way we want to. We just choose not to be victimized. Come look me up any day and I'll throw down with you. But I'm not going to go to lowsec and mission run so that you can get your jollies by ganking me while I'm otherwise engaged.
Alucard Draconis	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:30:00 - [84] I personally do TONS Of missions in low sec. Yes this is an alt...Dont want you sneeky pirates to go around and finding me. Poeple underestimate the power of low sec.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:55:00 - [85] "I do kill gatecamps. There's just no ISK in it, just killmails. Killing RA and Goons over and over while I blow up their T1 ships and mods doesn't line my pockets. You're missing the point entirely. I'm not inept, it's not that I 'can't' PVP or that I'm some 'carebear pirate'. It's that I kill for maximum profit. Those mission running carebear f#cks are the most profitable targets, hence I follow them. FFS you ppl (you) are stupid. And I'm not being pedantic. Learn the definition of the word." No your missing the point entirely. FFs how stupid are people? Look noone is paying 15 bucks a month to grind missions to rig a ship up worth 500 million so you can stroll by gank them and make a quick 100 million.... DO YOU GET IT? ARE YOU DENSE? Not to mention your utter BS about killing gate camps.... RA goons not big gate campers last i checked around. I am talking the real camps on the pipelines out of empire. Those camps do NOT use t1 ships, they run phat rigs you can make money off. sorry you are inept, you are a carebear pirate, and you most likely cannot pvp. you certainly are not very intellegent since you cannot manage to understand a simple concept that noone is out there grinidng ISK all month just to loose it all and hand over a part of it to you CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLE CONCEPT? So stop your inccesant whining and drivel about how CCP is supposed to provide you with a never ending treadmill of mission runners so YOU can make quick easy money mkay? PS good call on the pendantic, I am not sure what i was thinking when i used it but that certainly was stupid
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.12.08 08:29:00 - [86] Originally by: Bellum Eternus For me personally it has completely disappeared. I had to wait a week to get Recon Probe Launchers (RPLs) seeded, so I could go after mission runners. Doesn't matter now anyway, as all the mission runners have disappeared into high-sec. I can't follow them there (yet) because I'm -10.00. Come to Aunenen.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.08 08:52:00 - [87] Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/12/2006 09:11:20 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 No your missing the point entirely. FFs how stupid are people? Look noone is paying 15 bucks a month to grind missions to rig a ship up worth 500 million so you can stroll by gank them and make a quick 100 million.... DO YOU GET IT? ARE YOU DENSE? Then stay in high sec. and live with it that you don't get so highly rewarded like the players, who do missions in low sec. Piracy is about shooting stuff and profit, not about trying to get a fight that gives the victim a 50/50 chance. This is more like a strategy game and once you are scrambled by pirates, you have likely already lost. And there is nothing wrong about it. Risk and reward just need to be balanced that's all. We are all potential victims in eve. Don't like to pay you 15 bucks for it, then don't do it. I pay my accounts for that and no, I'm not a pirate, but for me eve is also about the struggle of life: I need to make isk, I try to survive, I try to kill stuff ... and I trade, build, mine ... do whatever, when I want/need to do it. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Abyss Jack Serial Chill3rz	Posted - 2006.12.08 08:59:00 - [88] to the topic, mate we have 300% more targets in lowsec since revelation. I guess the ppl think they can travel save thru now with insta warps . Anyway i miss alot battleships thou... --------------------------------- my english suxx, but i have a opinion. teh sig
Kimoto Harasakii	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:22:00 - [89] I liked the "move lvl 3/4 agents to -0.4" but changing it a bit might be good, like move all agents that have a quality of +5 to lowsec, the higher the quality, the lower security system. this should balance abit in risk-vs-reward.
Earthan Gallente The Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:29:00 - [90] Edited by: Earthan on 08/12/2006 09:29:12 Originally by: Aleksei Thraddash Lowsec empire really needs some love, at the moment it is just pointless to be there at all. Missions give only slightly more Isk/hour than in highsec and are riskier than npcing in 0.0 and the belts are just crap. The only people youll find there are newbies who dont know better. IMO the best way would be to add lowend BS spawns and better ores to the belts in 0.1 and to spread out the agents some more. you are joking right? Its 0.0 that needs aboost. The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage

Earthan Gallente The Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:31:00 - [91] Edited by: Earthan on 08/12/2006 09:34:32 Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'm not here to discuss PvP, or pirating in giant gate camps with instalocking remote boosted frigs or bubbled gates in 0.0. I'm here to discuss solo/small gang piracy in low-sec and what's become of it since the new patch. For me personally it has completely disappeared. I had to wait a week to get Recon Probe Launchers (RPLs) seeded, so I could go after mission runners. Doesn't matter now anyway, as all the mission runners have disappeared into high-sec. I can't follow them there (yet) because I'm -10.00. I don't have anyone to shoot at. Zero. There's more traffic in low sec now, but that's an illusion. Haulers go from gate to station, instadock, turn around and leave. Where before I might ahve stood a chance at nabbing one or two that didn't have instas, now I'm assured that I don't get the opportunity, no matter how small it might have been before. Rarely does someone go ratting in a belt, and when they do, they're always aligned to the gate/station, and are usually in warp before I even get warped into the belt proper. Straight to the station and gate, with no chance to persue them. I dislike 0.0 because of the bubbles and bubble camps, but it looks like that is all that remains for me to do. Not bubblecamp mind you, but ply 0.0 systems in search of targets. I spend half my time in 0.0 anyway, but that's fighting fleet battles and such for my alliance. I do that to support them, but I enjoy solo pirating in low-sec as my main style of gameplay. Lately I see less and less reason to undock. In my opinion this game is increasingly becoming one of PvP by consent only. Might as well make special arenas and 'battle grounds' and completely convert to WoW's design, we're already half way there. I have jump clones in the four major circuits of low-sec in Amarr / Gallente / Caldari / Minmatar space. I'm not just suffering in a single system devoid of targets. I move around a lot using warp to 0km to my advantage to traverse high-sec in search of targets in remote low-sec systems. There just isn't anything to shoot at anymore. As soon as I get into a system, everyone is docked / safespotted / on their way to the high-sec gate. Bring back solo piracy to EvE CCP. well i think its as it was designed solo pirating was never meant to be at gates in low sec with sentries there. Anyway i still dont understand why cant you: 1- uber tank a bs and catch on the warping gate your target i know a friend of mine who did it. 2-Train for arazu or other cloaking ship and get them in belts. The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:33:00 - [92] Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/12/2006 09:35:41 @Nanobotter A little gank story: Yesterday, someone I know just got his new battleship. He was more or less broke and wanted to rat in his BS to make some money again. So what did he do ? He wanted to test his fitting against rats, jumped into the first belt, although there were hostiles around, it was in the middle of a warzone on the main route and the system has only two belts ! Well, he got ganked by 12 hostiles. My comment was only 'Sigh, I better don't ask what you did in that belt...' Then he wanted revenge, because he was totally angry, jumped into another ship, warped into the 12 enemies and lost his pod. You'd say the gankers were mean and the fight was unfair. I'd say it was his own fault. You don't play EVE like that ! It wasn't unfair, he made a bad move like a chess-player and he got punished for it ! No reason to cry or complain, it was fair game. If that happens to you, it's time to rethink your playstyle and improve or suffer again. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:41:00 - [93] I see no problem in low sec piracy. If you want to run missions there join a big corp. Go to the same system will all friendly mission runner and cover each other. If you monitor local you should know when pirate enter system. Start checking scanner and when you see something bigger than covert op call for help from fellow corp members. Most missions are in DS. Pirate will land on gate giving you time to spot him. Few mission ratter BS will make a huge whole in any pirate ship. Even with mission fitting. The key is: multiplayer and cooperation. The ONLY problem I see is high-sec griefing. Like stealing mission items, agroing whole spawns or bumping people so they can't warp. I think it should be petitionable because you can't defend yourself from such behaviours.
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:51:00 - [94] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 FFs how stupid are people? Look noone is paying 15 bucks a month to grind missions to rig a ship up worth 500 million so you can stroll by gank them and make a quick 100 million.... DO YOU GET IT? ARE YOU DENSE? [...] you certainly are not very intellegent since you cannot manage to understand a simple concept that noone is out there grinidng ISK all month just to loose it all and hand over a part of it to you CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLE CONCEPT? I'm not gonna go into spelling ability here, but talk about being intelligent: I do not see any game mechanisms anywhere that force you to fit a ship with 500mil of modules. So, something "intelligent" for you would be to not fly stuff you're not willing to lose. That said, I rat and run missions in my pvp setups, and the pvp-ability of my ship is priority, not that I can run the mission as fast as possible. Of course, I still can, because I'm ooba --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:02:00 - [95] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar That said, I rat and run missions in my pvp setups, and the pvp-ability of my ship is priority, not that I can run the mission as fast as possible. Of course, I still can, because I'm ooba You can't run missions and defend from pirates at the same time. Not solo. The key is to have friends in system ready to warp to you. They may be in mission setups.
Teresa Daluca	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:05:00 - [96] Bellum Eternus and other pvp "junkies" ok I may say you are screwed for the fact most people "dont like PVP" most people playing eve look at pirates as griefers and happy trigger **'s Most people DONT want go get there ships blown up and most people dont like paying for a new clone either and most people dont like the idea of getting there hard saved BPO's got blown up IT's NOT fun it's realy not fun O thats right EvE Online is one of the rare space mmorpg games out on the market we love eve becouse we dont want to play a fairy we like space games. We dont want to get constantly griefed from trigger happy let me say morons becouse I realy **ed at some people here thinking all people want to destroy everything the look at. dont ruin the game for us who love eve becouse it's a space mmorpg, and dont loving blasting up other people property..
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:06:00 - [97] Edited by: KHEN on 08/12/2006 11:06:15 Give to pirates a small chance to hack a stargate and disable it (ss<5, hi slot mod + high-end skill) for a small amount of time (1-2 minutes) and they will be happy again
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:16:00 - [98] Originally by: Teresa Daluca Bellum Eternus and other pvp "junkies" ok I may say you are screwed for the fact most people "dont like PVP" most people playing eve look at pirates as griefers and happy trigger **'s Most people DONT want go get there ships blown up and most people dont like paying for a new clone either and most people dont like the idea of getting there hard saved BPO's got blown up IT's NOT fun it's realy not fun O thats right EvE Online is one of the rare space mmorpg games out on the market we love eve becouse we dont want to play a fairy we like space games. We dont want to get constantly griefed from trigger happy let me say morons becouse I realy ed at some people here thinking all people want to destroy everything the look at. dont ruin the game for us who love eve becouse it's a space mmorpg, and dont loving blasting up other people property.. Oh jesus... Ok, so on the one hand we've got people who play this game because it is the only** MMO with non-con PvP with consequences for your actions. On the other we've got people who want to play a MMO exactly like the other 30 on the market only with spaceships instead of fairies. Brilliant, we'll just give up the last hardcore MMO out there so that you can change it into a clone of all the others for purely cosmetic reasons. THAT'S going to happen. Selfish little mutters... ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Dale Cussler Gallente Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:26:00 - [99] Oh, I dunno. I've had mixed results. It's easy enough to catch haulers when they've just jumped in and are at a gate busy aligning, except you get the whole sentry thing there. But very doable and profitable if you catch some local hulls. Belt piracy, depends on how you approach it I guess. Some people stay aligned all the time, and sure, you might not catch them, but I've had decent results there as well. Complexes are scannable now, so are safespots, so all it takes is scare a carebear away from a belt into his/her safespot, drop a probe, and presto. Same with complexes, missions, and other items of interest. Still plenty of missioning happening in lowsec and 0.0 -- so when you're doing some piracy just for a sec rating drop, you're out of luck. If you're in it for ransoms and the possibility of some good loot dropping, you've got to adapt and you'll do just fine. IMO. YMMV.
Seishomaru	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:52:00 - [100] Funny so much people comlaining.. more than one week kali in. Never got jumped by pirates when doing missions, neither in safe or unsafe space.



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