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One Percent
Caldari
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:33:00 -
[1]
.. they practically kill themselves.
There are quite a few ways to avoid being killed while running missions in low-sec or 0.0. It's unfortunate that CCP is being flamed on the forums by players who simply have trouble adapting or don't understand game mechanics.
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
You shouldn't be able to do your homework, watch tv, and generate millions upon millions of isk simultaneously.
If anyone wants lessons on "not dying" shoot me an evemail, my rates are reasonable. 
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:35:00 -
[2]
God.. you sig.. my EYES.... its burning....!
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Zei Xeu
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:36:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: One Percent
.. they practically kill themselves.
There are quite a few ways to avoid being killed while running missions in low-sec or 0.0. It's unfortunate that CCP is being flamed on the forums by players who simply have trouble adapting or don't understand game mechanics.
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
You shouldn't be able to do your homework, watch tv, and generate millions upon millions of isk simultaneously.
If anyone wants lessons on "not dying" shoot me an evemail, my rates are reasonable.
Let me get this straight: according to what you are saying above the "price" for entry to the game is
1) Monthly payment to CCP
2) Knowledge of how to "survive" in 0.0
3) In game money to pay for said knowledge
which I can't get because I don't have 2).
Seems like a pretty high price to me. Why bother?
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Nir
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
God.. you sig.. my EYES.... its burning....!
burning.. with.. desire? 
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: One Percent
.. they practically kill themselves.
There are quite a few ways to avoid being killed while running missions in low-sec or 0.0. It's unfortunate that CCP is being flamed on the forums by players who simply have trouble adapting or don't understand game mechanics.
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
You shouldn't be able to do your homework, watch tv, and generate millions upon millions of isk simultaneously.
If anyone wants lessons on "not dying" shoot me an evemail, my rates are reasonable.
The main problems have been in High Sec not low sec.
The low sec whiners are just that whiners...they will always be there. But i think the High sec guys getting jumped have a point.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 07/12/2006 20:39:16
Originally by: Zei Xeu
Let me get this straight: according to what you are saying above the "price" for entry to the game is
1) Monthly payment to CCP
2) Knowledge of how to "survive" in 0.0
3) In game money to pay for said knowledge
which I can't get because I don't have 2).
Seems like a pretty high price to me. Why bother?
Yeah, I still think my idea of getting iskies while being offline was EXCELLENT. Nobody would have to actually DO anything. :)
Originally by: Nir
burning.. with.. desire?
Yeah, desire to get the hell out of the thread.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: One Percent
your sig is pure <3
i am WIERCHAS i am like UBER and stuff |
Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:53:00 -
[8]
The main problem with probing and missions was the greifing in high sec, not low sec killings.
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Lil Miner
Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
One Percent
Caldari
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Serapis Aote
Originally by: One Percent
.. they practically kill themselves.
There are quite a few ways to avoid being killed while running missions in low-sec or 0.0. It's unfortunate that CCP is being flamed on the forums by players who simply have trouble adapting or don't understand game mechanics.
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
You shouldn't be able to do your homework, watch tv, and generate millions upon millions of isk simultaneously.
If anyone wants lessons on "not dying" shoot me an evemail, my rates are reasonable.
The main problems have been in High Sec not low sec.
The low sec whiners are just that whiners...they will always be there. But i think the High sec guys getting jumped have a point.
Yes, I'll admit that having people come into your mission and steal your lootz is probably annoying.. especially when they take something you need to complete your mission.
Although, the same thing can happen in belts.. so I don't have a huge problem with it. If you run missions with friends you're much less likely to have problems. I personally have no friends.. so no more lvl 2 high-sec mission whoring for me.  |
One Percent
Caldari
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2006.12.07 20:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: One Percent
your sig is pure <3
A tip of the cap to your sig also sir.  |
StarStryder
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: One Percent
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
That's right it's not fair, for one simple reason. Level 4's don't pay enough, even in low sec, to make it worth the time for 2, let alone more, players. A little while back they nerfed the earning potential of level 4s because people were earning too much running them solo. If you now expect it to be a multi-player endevour then the earnings have to be restored to make it viable.
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One Percent
Caldari
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: StarStryder
Originally by: One Percent
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
That's right it's not fair, for one simple reason. Level 4's don't pay enough, even in low sec, to make it worth the time for 2, let alone more, players. A little while back they nerfed the earning potential of level 4s because people were earning too much running them solo. If you now expect it to be a multi-player endevour then the earnings have to be restored to make it viable.
Or, you could mine/npc hunt.
More dangerous? Certainly.
More isk? Compared to 2 or more people doing the same mission, of course. Mining is insanely profitable in the right regions with a small group of players.
Makes sense to me. |
StarStryder
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:20:00 -
[13]
Yeah, I know I could mine, but what if I don't want to, I want to run missions. The way you think would result in only one thing worth doing in the game because why bother balancing something when there something else that is better out there already.
The fact that mining is viable is not an excuse to ignore the fact missions aren't.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: One Percent
.. they practically kill themselves.
There are quite a few ways to avoid being killed while running missions in low-sec or 0.0. It's unfortunate that CCP is being flamed on the forums by players who simply have trouble adapting or don't understand game mechanics.
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
You shouldn't be able to do your homework, watch tv, and generate millions upon millions of isk simultaneously.
If anyone wants lessons on "not dying" shoot me an evemail, my rates are reasonable.
And i don't get idiotic hipocrite little morons like you who would rather bash on the forums than drink the potion by their own recepy and see start wathing TV while generating a zillion isk.
lamer!
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Frankinator
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:21:00 -
[15]
Indeed.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nir
Originally by: Jim McGregor
God.. you sig.. my EYES.... its burning....!
burning.. with.. desire?
Good now i know which alt you are and who's your main!
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Zei Xeu
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: One Percent
Originally by: StarStryder
Originally by: One Percent
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
That's right it's not fair, for one simple reason. Level 4's don't pay enough, even in low sec, to make it worth the time for 2, let alone more, players. A little while back they nerfed the earning potential of level 4s because people were earning too much running them solo. If you now expect it to be a multi-player endevour then the earnings have to be restored to make it viable.
Or, you could mine/npc hunt.
More dangerous? Certainly.
More isk? Compared to 2 or more people doing the same mission, of course. Mining is insanely profitable in the right regions with a small group of players.
Makes sense to me.
I'll bite:
How long should the newbie have to mine before he can "play" the game?
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: One Percent
your sig is pure <3
I much prefer Wierchas' sig! at least it has girls on it.
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StarStryder
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:24:00 -
[19]
Let me just add that I would have no problem with level 4 missions being moved to low sec/0.0 entirely but that would have to be contingent on:
1) Increased earnings to offset the increased risk (ie: the need to do them in gangs or potentially replace many more ships).
2) Alter mission structures to make PVP setups more viable.
3) Reduce the flying time between DS gates since warping out while 3 tiers deep is a right royal pain in the arse.
4) split aggro between the runner(s) and the pirate(s).
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: StarStryder
Let me just add that I would have no problem with level 4 missions being moved to low sec/0.0 entirely but that would have to be contingent on:
1) Increased earnings to offset the increased risk (ie: the need to do them in gangs or potentially replace many more ships).
2) Alter mission structures to make PVP setups more viable.
3) Reduce the flying time between DS gates since warping out while 3 tiers deep is a right royal pain in the arse.
4) split aggro between the runner(s) and the pirate(s).
Let me modify that a bit:
1. Increase the benefit WITHOUT the need to do them in gangs, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the increased benefit
2. A Scrambler will never be a viable mod in a mission, hence the pirate has it ultimately risk free.
3. As this is correct, if they do not change the mechanics, I actually prefer longer space since it will mean that if a pirate enters your complex he will have to travel 100km as well to the next gate...
If this situation is fixed (probes) of course, gates 100km away make NO sense...
4. Aggro ONLY the attacker. As the attacker he has the complete advantage, hence making it a lot less possible for the defender to counter attack. Just as you have turrets at the gates, make the NPCs target the attacker immediately.
I'd like him to fight them off with ease, as someone suggested "While watching TV" and then kill me as well.. ... maybe on a mission like Enemies abound 5/5.. or a similar one.. :D
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
2. A Scrambler will never be a viable mod in a mission, hence the pirate has it ultimately risk free.
I learnt this lesson many moons ago. I always PvE with a scram these days- its an excellent way of nabbing those who think they can nab your loot, or who attack you thinking its risk free.
I've always thought it a bit distasteful to "optimise" a setup for PvE. You should never fly a setup in a risky enviroment (like low-sec) that you wouldn't be happy to PvP in. I can manage most missions and all belts just fine in a PvP-capable setup, and I'm hardly Uber.
-----------------------------------------------
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Iudex
Caldari
CaIdari Navy
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: One Percent
.. they practically kill themselves.
There are quite a few ways to avoid being killed while running missions in low-sec or 0.0. It's unfortunate that CCP is being flamed on the forums by players who simply have trouble adapting or don't understand game mechanics.
Now that there is an element of danger or more incentive to run missions with your friends, EVE is no longer fair? Please.
You shouldn't be able to do your homework, watch tv, and generate millions upon millions of isk simultaneously.
If anyone wants lessons on "not dying" shoot me an evemail, my rates are reasonable.
Element of danger is a bit of an understatement. And being not afk does not safe you there. I don't know how you want to survive, maybe share your wisdom with us ?
Skilled scanners can find a raven within 2 minutes. In this time you don't move far enough from the warp-in point to be out of scrambler range, so they'll jump in right after you aggroed a major spawn, scramble and kill you. Of corse they come in gangs, so there won't be a fair fight, as you have ncp aggro + gang on you. Really curious what you want to do against that. And please don't say "watch local etc.". I was running lvl 4s in a complete hostile system. Didn't have to use gates as this system had many lvl 4 agents. So it was quite safe although the system was full of people who wanted to kill me (because they thought it is "their" system) but could not - now they easily can - or what are the game mechanics here that i don't understand ?
L...i...b...e...r...a...t...e.........C...a...l...d...a...r...i........P...r...i...m...e.!
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Kruel
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:51:00 -
[23]
Death to mission runners.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Black Scorpio
2. A Scrambler will never be a viable mod in a mission, hence the pirate has it ultimately risk free.
I learnt this lesson many moons ago. I always PvE with a scram these days- its an excellent way of nabbing those who think they can nab your loot, or who attack you thinking its risk free.
I've always thought it a bit distasteful to "optimise" a setup for PvE. You should never fly a setup in a risky enviroment (like low-sec) that you wouldn't be happy to PvP in. I can manage most missions and all belts just fine in a PvP-capable setup, and I'm hardly Uber.
I can hold my own in PvE-ish setups and have not requested a detailed review on the topic. Do i think most PvEers include scrambler modules in their mid slots as opposed to an active shield res or a T2 shield extender (caldari speaking)? No.
Btw, it is easier (note i do not say easy) for an Armor tanking ship to use scrambler, when compared to a shield tanking ship. It just makes you a lot less resilient and you have to say warp out at least several times.
For some missions (like the one i quoted above) you need as much optimizing as you can to do the mission. A friend is not always available.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kruel
Death to mission runners.
Ladies first, alt! Go for it!
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wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: One Percent
your sig is pure <3
I much prefer Wierchas' sig! at least it has girls on it.
well its depeds on orientation tbh 
i am WIERCHAS i am like UBER and stuff |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.12.07 22:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: One Percent
your sig is pure <3
I much prefer Wierchas' sig! at least it has girls on it.
well its depeds on orientation tbh
Well I like the girls, maybe the OP likes guys..
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Gray Carmicheal
Wings of Redemption
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Posted - 2006.12.07 22:03:00 -
[28]
I've found that running Serpentis and Guristas missions provides little to no difficulty increase with a PVP setup.
Maybe you guys complaining just have really bad pvp setups?
Matter of fact, I soloed a 4/10 plex in my pvp fitted AF the other day in low sec. Not a huge accomplishment, but I did it and tanked every ounce of it no problem. PVP setups aren't nerfed in missions, they're just a bit slower on the isk farm, which the very idea of slower profit gains makes some of you scream like girls (obviously).
I'll add that Angels ARE really hard with Minmatar PVP setups, but it can be done, and is incredible fun.I've never had an Amarr PVP build, sand never really ran missions on that alt when it existed, so I can't give an opinion on that.
I realize this doesn't completely cover the OP in the thread, but it can pretty much sum up the repetitive posts on this section. Which are getting older than the "OMG fix macrominers!!!1" threads, REALLY fast.
Ranis by Trey Azagthoth
Cortes has haxed my sig. :(
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StarStryder
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.07 22:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
4. Aggro ONLY the attacker. As the attacker he has the complete advantage, hence making it a lot less possible for the defender to counter attack. Just as you have turrets at the gates, make the NPCs target the attacker immediately.
While that has a certain appeal it makes no sense to me. The runner is killing the NPCs but as soon as a pirate appears they turn on him and help protect the runner that was shooting them a moment before!
Making it split aggro basically takes the NPCs out of the equation for the duration of the PvP encounter since they equally reduce the players tanking ability. Of course the pirate has some advantage since the runner is probably already reduced somewhat from having all the NPCs on him before the pirate appeared.
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar
Pragmatics
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Posted - 2006.12.07 22:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: One Percent
<...> more incentive to run missions with your friends <...>
If you've got friends logged in at the same time as you, there are more profitable things to be doing than running low-sec missions.
I'm not running missions, so it's no loss to me. But if mission running isn't worth it then it becomes another part of the game that doesn't have a useful role. Too many parts of the game like that and it's in danger of becoming brief periods of pewpew separated by long periods of whatever happens to be the best way of making money at the time. If EvE loses the diversity of possible pursuits it will be a great shame.
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