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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:47:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!  
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
J'Tell
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:52:00 -
[32]
I can not comprehend all the complaining about griefing.
This is an unforgiving universe we live in here.
Live by its rules and you will be sort of fine.
Bend those rules, and you'll get rich.
Break the rules and not take into consideration the thousands of other players out there?
j00 d34d f00!
It's because of the games' unforgivingness that I love it.
Mistakes are punished.
Wise actions may be punished.
I sure hope that made sense.
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Dendrin Koljn
Minmatar
Elite United Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: franny
....this is not WoW, where your safe unless your a brainless moron...
No but atm you ARE SAFE if you ARE a brainless moron, think thats what peeps are upset about 
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Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
gonna put this in my sig.
Originally by: Wrangler
We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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The Snowman
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:25:00 -
[35]
oh....
So what Wrangler is saying is that if you get greifed in a mission : you should make a note of his name..
and when your next not doing much, hunt this nob down and greif HIS missions.
what if he never does missions, how exactly do you greif a greifer?
<------------>
Poker RPG
60 jumps 'Flop' by.. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:30:00 -
[36]
If you want SOCIAL types of people to grief ANTI-SOCIAL types of people, then give them the means to do so already !
Now, what exactly COULD that be, I wonder...
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Mollyanna
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
Then how about changing your marketing and FAQ to reflect that instead of misrepresenting your game in order to sell it.
It's a pretty nasty slap in the face to new customers to offer them one game experience, and in fact deliver something else - tends to make them not happy with you or your company.
-M
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Feyd Darkholme
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:39:00 -
[38]
Well all kidding aside, TBH the wording of that quote is a little... troublesome. It does make it sound like the devs are condoning "griefing"... but I'm not going to be dragged into some retarded forum debate over it, or the issues behind the quote for that matter.
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The Snowman
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Feyd Darkholme
Well all kidding aside, TBH the wording of that quote is a little... troublesome. It does make it sound like the devs are condoning "griefing"... but I'm not going to be dragged into some retarded forum debate over it, or the issues behind the quote for that matter.
I dont think its that much of a problem.
As Devs have said before, Greifing was always possible and they do promote a "do what you want so long as its not an exploit" mentality.
And I dont think they properly realised that making scan probing much easier would impact mission runners quite as much as this.. after all, they made scanning easier for exploration, not with the intention of making greifing "easier"
more interesting is the comment about social people greifing antisocial people... is there a tutorial? lol
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Poker RPG
60 jumps 'Flop' by.. |
Wotar
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:02:00 -
[40]
In Eve, griefing is just another word for shooting at someone or taking their stuff.
Please, leave meaningless words and phrases from other games at the door. Ta.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:05:00 -
[41]
I hate griefers.. they spoil my game 
And now Dev's joined griefers.. this is outrageous!
I will now re-install WoW and play it.
"It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö"
"A world without pain" |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:07:00 -
[42]
tbh some griefing makes everything a bit interesting, without any smack, grief, general evilness both the game and forums would be pretty boring (of course as long as it doesn't go too far).
Of course noone wants to be the victim of it, yet we all most likely have been at some point, or will be (unless your avatar has a little gold icon beneath it in which case you simply hit the WTFPWNBBQ button on the abuser).
    
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Thaneal Swiftbird
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
And you think making fun of an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population is what a community-manager is supposed to do? You think catering "funny" comments to a few griefing morons with social defects that should be treated in a closed sanatory will do any good? I fired people for much less...
I just started out playing eve. I like the game and its open aspects. I do not fear a fair battle. But reading this forums and CCP¦s official reactions to major concerns of their playerbase makes me doubt the game will have much room for different playstiles in the future. The second I get catered as easy prey to some RL psyco (and I am not talking about eye to eye combat here) I am gone. I got lots of work, my free time is valuable to me. I would not even think about paying a game for the honour of "beeing griefed and griefing back".
Greetings
Thaneal Swiftbird
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Skyy
Edited by: Skyy on 08/12/2006 05:18:55
Trust me... once it becomes "more difficult" the griefers will stop. Anything that is any form of effort is just too much for them.
QFT
Most of these people who are currently griefing mission runners are idiots who are currently taking advantage of an "idiot-proof" scanning system.
As soon as something requires an ounce of effort or thought for them, they'll stop, as there really isn't much to gain from "griefing" high sec mission runners. Then they'll go to low sec, try to do the same thing and get blown up by real pirates and PvPers.
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Shadow Lightbringer
Nightghosts Inc
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Thaneal Swiftbird
Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
And you think making fun of an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population is what a community-manager is supposed to do? You think catering "funny" comments to a few griefing morons with social defects that should be treated in a closed sanatory will do any good? I fired people for much less...
I just started out playing eve. I like the game and its open aspects. I do not fear a fair battle. But reading this forums and CCP¦s official reactions to major concerns of their playerbase makes me doubt the game will have much room for different playstiles in the future. The second I get catered as easy prey to some RL psyco (and I am not talking about eye to eye combat here) I am gone. I got lots of work, my free time is valuable to me. I would not even think about paying a game for the honour of "beeing griefed and griefing back".
Greetings
Thaneal Swiftbird
Welcome to EVE, where people will destroy your ship, step on your ketchup packets, and steal your kitten for no better reason than you were a convenient target. When you come up against someone who knows what they are doing, there is no way you will experience a fair fight because he will be too busy killing you to think, "Gee, I wonder if this is really fair?"
As far as your claim, "...an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population..." I would like to see you prove that. I am betting it is only a majority in your mind. 
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:38:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Thaneal Swiftbird
Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
And you think making fun of an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population is what a community-manager is supposed to do? You think catering "funny" comments to a few griefing morons with social defects that should be treated in a closed sanatory will do any good? I fired people for much less...
I just started out playing eve. I like the game and its open aspects. I do not fear a fair battle. But reading this forums and CCP¦s official reactions to major concerns of their playerbase makes me doubt the game will have much room for different playstiles in the future. The second I get catered as easy prey to some RL psyco (and I am not talking about eye to eye combat here) I am gone. I got lots of work, my free time is valuable to me. I would not even think about paying a game for the honour of "beeing griefed and griefing back".
Greetings
Thaneal Swiftbird
Whoah, hold there Mr. Social defect. You don't like PVP, you go play wow.
It's great being Amarr, aint it? |
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:45:00 -
[47]
Well, griefer is defined by us as:
Quote:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersÆ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
And obviously these kinds of people really don't have any place in a game like EVE. Unfortunately the term griefer is generally defined as pretty much any player attacking a player who doesn't wish to fight, no matter where that player is or what he is doing. This is of course completely wrong, EVE is a PvP game after all. Much in the same way as a carebear is defined as someone who doesn't like PvP, which is also not true.
Anyway, In EVE you can even attack another player if you are in high sec space, though that will cost you your ship it is also entirely possible you will manage to destroy the one you attack first, though that is not usually the outcome.
Anyway, the point is, no, we do not wish to see griefers, but we do like to see conflict and such in different ways, because that is a big part of EVE.
And I think I used up todays quota of the word "anyway".
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base
Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ |
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OneSock
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:49:00 -
[48]
There are many mechanisms CCP could adopt to stop mission griefing. They choose not to do it, but they make it harder. In effect they are condoning it to a certain extent.
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Pesadel0
Vagabundos
THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:09:00 -
[49]
Yes some of the devs are indeed PK ,were is that thread in wich it shows tomb caracter in UO?
Lol at the op.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: OneSock
IMO while PVE remains in the game CCP have a responsibility to the player base to provide relatively safe PVE environment. At least the PVE'er should be able to engage a gate crasher without concord intervention and the gatecrasher should not be able to affect the PVE'er's standing by screwing up the mission objective.
See - there you are wrong.
CCP have absolutely no responsibility to do anything of the sort.
There is NO SEPERATION of "pvp" and "pve" stuff in this game. all the PvE you are doing gets resources for the PvP part of the game - so if someone wants to beat you in PvP, one of the ways they can plan to do this is to stop you from getting the resources to PvP - ie, hinder your PvE isk making activities.
Heck, my corp was just in a war because someone didn't like that we were mission running in their backyard.
if you want to engage freely - go to 0.4 and under sec space.
Although i do agree that mission critical drops (keys etc) should be only seen by the players in the gang doing the mission.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:11:00 -
[51]
EVE is a PvP game in the way that no matter where you are in EVE, except docked in a station, you can target and fire on the other ship. EVE isn't all about PvP, but the possibility for PvP exists everywhere in EVE, and in that sense it is a PvP game.
As for this particular issue, I believe Oveur says it best in his forum post on the topic: Originally by: Oveur
Two things to take into consideration here, you are supposed to be able to scan out people, whether they are doing missions, mining or hiding. On the other hand, it's not supposed to be too easy to find everyone.
TomB is looking into the scanner balancing specifically around this, let's see what his findings are.
Which I would interpret as it is too easy now, but the possibility of it will/should exist in the future even if it should be harder to do.
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base
Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ |
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DropZone 187
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:11:00 -
[52]
It is completely amazing to see how stupid mission runners are.
Wrangler, a well respected Dev who works for CCP clearly stated that this is a PvP game and yet you continue to disagree with him. Utterly amazing.
Anyhow, it should put to bed the mission runner 'I can play the game the way I want to because it isn't a PvP game...' claim.
Move out to 0.0 as was intended. Empire is for newer players and trading, not mission running.
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OneSock
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
On the first point, see the above, on the second point, you're definition of PvP is screwy.
How so screwy ? explain. All I am saying is that CCP provided high sec, relatively safe PVE and that has effectively been taken away. If CCP want to make the game more PVP oriented then why not throw away high sec and let us all get on with it.
If CCP want PVE to remain in the game then they make it safer. I'm not saying it should be perfectly secure. I just made a couple of suggestions on ways to improve it. What do you suggest ?
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Verone
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:15:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
OMGF TEH FUNNAY...
VETO FOR HIRE
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Seldon Corran
Caldari
Camelot Innovations
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:17:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: OneSock
There are many mechanisms CCP could adopt to stop mission griefing. They choose not to do it, but they make it harder. In effect they are condoning it to a certain extent.
Except as I just posted, EVE is a PvP game. PvP isn't the only thing in EVE, but it is essentially allowed everywhere. Pirates lurk ar stargates to prey on ships transporting valuable things. You can see people doing complexes as a sort of treasure hunters, if EVE is a PvP game, why would pirates not lurk around complexes or even search out players to steal their treasure? It shouldn't be too easy, but it should be a possibility, and I do believe the term griefer is incorrectly used in the quoted part. Though you have to remember that it is not a final patch note if I understand it correctly.
And I might as well point out that I'm not a PvPer, if I even do any form of combat it is in missions.
Well I am glad I finally saw a Dev answer my question as to what Eve is supposed to be, PvE/PvP or PvP. When I signed up 8 months ago I was under the impression that I could PvE in relative safety in high sec, and that I was opening myself up for PvP by venturing into low sec. I understood that I could still be shot at in high sec, but I assumed that once I was in a PvE enviroment (missions in this case) I was safe enough to enjoy the game as I saw fit. I am not complaining here, so please dont jump down my throat PvP players, I obviously just misunderstood 'your' game and what I could do in it. Well this account expires on the 13th and I am letting my alt's GTC expire.. so I guess for the moment it's back to City of Heroes/Villains for me, WoW doesnt interest me at the moment *snaps spandex*
Thanks for the fun you gave me during the 8 months though It truely is a beautiful game, just not the one I thought it was.
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R3dSh1ft
Caldari
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:17:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Wrangler
That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
its true, there is a god
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:20:00 -
[57]
Lol, the proof is astonishing
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relaxed corp looking for members |
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: OneSock
Originally by: Exiled One
Originally by: OneSock
Originally by: Wrangler
EVE is a PvP game after all.
Your wrong infact. Eve is a game which allows PVP, it also permits PVE in deadspace missions, cosmos etc. There is usually a clear deliniation between the two but this is obviously more blurred since revelations hit us with uber probing.
If Eve is a PVP game, delete mission running from the game, make npcs sell T2 equipment and we can all get down to some serious PVP.
IMO while PVE remains in the game CCP have a responsibility to the player base to provide relatively safe PVE environment. At least the PVE'er should be able to engage a gate crasher without concord intervention and the gatecrasher should not be able to affect the PVE'er's standing by screwing up the mission objective.
You got no bloody clues. Get back to your hole and post again in 3 years when you learn. 
I take it your a loser griefer then ? post something constructive or shut up.
You just told a member of the Dev team and CCP's assistant community manager that he is wrong about what Eve is?
Seriously what are you smoking?
CCP's line has been consistent on this issue ever since the servers were switched on and their representative has confirmed it twice in this thread, Eve is a PvP game, all PvE activities within the game are carried out in the context of an environment that allows PvP.
It amazes me how stubbornly people resist admitting this fact to themselves. Ok so you might not want to PvP, ok so there are elements of PvE in the game, ok there are places where it is harder to PvP but the overall context of the game isn't changed by any of those statements.
Eve is a PvP game.
I feel my IQ deteriorate by a point per minute every time I venture into the General Forum section, it's always a major relief to get back to the safety of CAOD where there's only a bit of smack to deal with
Blog
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:23:00 -
[59]
Hey! Calm down here! Discussing things are good, even if it get's a bit heated at times. Letting the discussion degrade to insults and personal attacks is not. So get back to the discussion bit or I'll unleash the moderator team on y'all and then it'll just get nasty.
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base
Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ |
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OneSock
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Varis
There is NO SEPERATION of "pvp" and "pve" stuff in this game.
There is. High Sec and deadspace. If there is no seperation, take away high sec, take away deadspace. What we are talking about is how much seperation there should be. Like it or not there are players in the game who want PVE and have no interest in PVP at all. They build their trading empires and production lines which feed the PVPers needs for ships and modules.
There are always risks in this game but recently that balance has been thrown towards PVPers and specfically those who want to make PVE mission runners miserable. I think that's wrong and I've made a couple of suggestions to improve it a bit. Feel free to disagree.
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