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Here's proof EVE Dev Team want anti-social players to grief others

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
G'Kar Nomad	Posted - 2006.12.08 04:58:00 - [1] In the Community Relations Manager's own words... Quote: Although the patch notes have not been assembled yet, the Devs have been working on a number of fixes and improvements for Tuesday's Revelations 1.2 patch. Among the items under consideration for the patch are: *Adjustments to the scan system so that: -griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult... The Dev's dirty little secret is out- DEVS LIKE TO SEE PLAYERS GRIEF EACH OTHER! CCP should change EVE-Online to Grief-Online! You could clearly see the Devs enjoy having a minority of losers grief other paying customers. I now suspect some of the Devs have actively griefed players (in-game) to get their kicks...
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:00:00 - [2] How is reducing the potential for griefing in missions make the developers biased for creating more grief play? Last Weeks Signature
Capt Harlock Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:03:00 - [3] oh shut up b4 i grief you!
Rudolfii Miller	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:13:00 - [4] Originally by: Aeaus How is reducing the potential for griefing in missions make the developers biased for creating more grief play? Because they could have made deadspace mission regions not scannable.
Skyy Caldari Veni-Vidi-Vici	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:18:00 - [5] Edited by: Skyy on 08/12/2006 05:18:55 Trust me... once it becomes "more difficult" the griefers will stop. Anything that is any form of effort is just too much for them.
ee21k	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:19:00 - [6] Originally by: G'Kar Nomad In the Community Relations Manager's own words... Quote: Although the patch notes have not been assembled yet, the Devs have been working on a number of fixes and improvements for Tuesday's Revelations 1.2 patch. Among the items under consideration for the patch are: *Adjustments to the scan system so that: -griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult... The Dev's dirty little secret is out- DEVS LIKE TO SEE PLAYERS GRIEF EACH OTHER! CCP should change EVE-Online to Grief-Online! You could clearly see the Devs enjoy having a minority of losers grief other paying customers. I now suspect some of the Devs have actively griefed players (in-game) to get their kicks... Seriously. People. How hard is it to think for 20~30 seconds before posting and arrange your thoughts into an intelligable structure. You may have had a point put the manner in which you present it makes me not want to hear about it. be calm. be cool. be reasonable. then maybe you'll recieve an answer you will like as opposed to a thread full of flames as this is becoming.
Kwint Sommer	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:23:00 - [7] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 08/12/2006 05:23:09 Originally by: ee21k Seriously. People. How hard is it to think for 20~30 seconds before posting and arrange your thoughts into an intelligable structure. You may have had a point put the manner in which you present it makes me not want to hear about it. be calm. be cool. be reasonable. then maybe you'll recieve an answer you will like as opposed to a thread full of flames as this is becoming. May I point out the irony that your response contains several typographical and grammatical errors which make it hard to read: intelligible not intelligable, but not put, capitalization is cool

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:25:00 - [8] That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

Skyy Caldari Veni-Vidi-Vici	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! he made a funny
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Rudolfii Miller Originally by: Aeaus How is reducing the potential for griefing in missions make the developers biased for creating more grief play? Because they could have made deadspace mission regions not scannable. how about, NO this is not WoW, where your safe unless your a brainless moron... this is a pvp game, like it or not, making deadspace pockets unscannable would make them the ultimate safespot in wars CEO - PKKP Recruitment
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! <3 CEO - PKKP Recruitment
Takanohana Deep Space Explorers	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:35:00 - [12] Quote: *Adjustments to the scan system so that: -griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult... Poor choice of words perhaps ? I would have expected something with the meaning of "CCP does not accept griefplay, so we have prevented that by a change in something". The quote above could be interpreted as saying "griefing is acceptible, it should just be difficult to do", which I believe is the way the OP has interpreted it. I however chose to believe that CCP does not accept griefplay, that they strive to eliminate it, and p'haps that Rome wasn't built in a day. ///Taka
Voin	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:37:00 - [13] Originally by: franny Originally by: Rudolfii Miller Originally by: Aeaus How is reducing the potential for griefing in missions make the developers biased for creating more grief play? Because they could have made deadspace mission regions not scannable. how about, NO this is not WoW, where your safe unless your a brainless moron... this is a pvp game, like it or not, making deadspace pockets unscannable would make them the ultimate safespot in wars this is NOT only PvP game girl... DEV's can give some un-scannable modules to protect spot from jerk's and griefers...
Red Six Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:40:00 - [14] When will you people learn, the devs have said on numerous occasions that this IS a PvP game. Originally by: Eridu Fallen Upon closer inspection, that Caldari BS doesn't even look like it got hit with the ugly stick, it looks like it is the ugly stick.
Red Six Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:40:00 - [15] Edited by: Red Six on 08/12/2006 05:40:27 Bloody forums! Originally by: Eridu Fallen Upon closer inspection, that Caldari BS doesn't even look like it got hit with the ugly stick, it looks like it is the ugly stick.
DiuxDium The Graduates	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:42:00 - [16] I grief mission runners using game exploits like scan-probes because my mother beats me with mustard, and I have no friends. Send Ketchup. Timeout! Party time.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Red Six When will you people learn, the devs have said on numerous occasions that this IS a PvP game. The devs also said cargo expander II bpos would be in the lottery. I'm not saying this isn't PvP... but its also PvE. Its both, so when will YOU and THEY learn? People prepare in PvE, they prosper in PvE, and they strive for better PvE... PvP is only the conflict between gaining more PvE.... period.
Rudolfii Miller	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:53:00 - [18] Originally by: franny Originally by: Rudolfii Miller Originally by: Aeaus How is reducing the potential for griefing in missions make the developers biased for creating more grief play? Because they could have made deadspace mission regions not scannable. how about, NO this is not WoW, where your safe unless your a brainless moron... this is a pvp game, like it or not, making deadspace pockets unscannable would make them the ultimate safespot in wars Dear .. I was just answering the question of why he feels this way. I have no issue with PVP. I would prefer that PVP be in the context of the greater story line of EVE. I, however, have no use for players that do something just to make someone unhappy and then revel in the joy of that person's pain.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:56:00 - [19] Originally by: G'Kar Nomad In the Community Relations Manager's own words... Quote: Although the patch notes have not been assembled yet, the Devs have been working on a number of fixes and improvements for Tuesday's Revelations 1.2 patch. Among the items under consideration for the patch are: Adjustments to the scan system so that: -griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult... The Dev's dirty little secret is out- DEVS LIKE TO SEE PLAYERS GRIEF EACH OTHER! CCP should change EVE-Online to Grief-Online! You could clearly see the Devs enjoy having a minority of losers grief other paying customers. I now suspect some of the Devs have actively griefed players (in-game) to get their kicks... The devious rascals! Boosting griefing by nerfing it! /shakes fist at devs * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.12.08 05:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
Bobbit1 Caldari Barge Insurance Company Relief	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Wrangler, you are my Hero!!
Moraguth	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:40:00 - [22] Heh, this made me chuckle. I've been pouring over the forums alot lately because of the patch and all i see is complaining (with the exception of a few very well thought out and presented posts on the current status of things and a few theories). Thanks for the laugh, sorry the some of the first posters didn't get your joke, they'll get it soon though, maybe on tues. good game
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:51:00 - [23] Originally by: G'Kar Nomad The Dev's dirty little secret is out- DEVS LIKE TO SEE PLAYERS GRIEF EACH OTHER! CCP should change EVE-Online to Grief-Online! You could clearly see the Devs enjoy having a minority of losers grief other paying customers. I now suspect some of the Devs have actively griefed players (in-game) to get their kicks... Uh, and this is secret? Have you ever seen this? clearly, people who come to play eve know which game it is they're playing. your 'revelation' has surprised precisely no-one.
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:52:00 - [24] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! I <3 CCP for that comment! -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.08 06:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Win! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Zelakil	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:06:00 - [26] -Q- "May I point out the irony that your response contains several typographical and grammatical errors which make it hard to read: intelligible not intelligable, but not put, capitalization is cool" Apparently you read it well enough to identify the errors. Where is the punctuation at the end of your sentence? "May I" is a question. "Capitalization is cool" is not consistent with the previous items in your list and therefore is not gramatically correct. I am so sick of useless posts. Unfortunately I cannot resist the urge to fight back.
Kamal Drax	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! LMAO .
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! EVE devs ftw! -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:41:00 - [29] well with the devs in BOB i think that says more than enough once again whiny carebears have made it harder for PVPers = see the more u whine the more they act now how about my whine on the lack of exploration sites any chacne of 3 per system These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Wrangler wins the forums today! 'Nuff said. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
J'Tell	Posted - 2006.12.08 07:52:00 - [32] I can not comprehend all the complaining about griefing. This is an unforgiving universe we live in here. Live by its rules and you will be sort of fine. Bend those rules, and you'll get rich. Break the rules and not take into consideration the thousands of other players out there? j00 d34d f00! It's because of the games' unforgivingness that I love it. Mistakes are punished. Wise actions may be punished. I sure hope that made sense.
Dendrin Koljn Minmatar Elite United Corp	Posted - 2006.12.08 08:36:00 - [33] Originally by: franny ....this is not WoW, where your safe unless your a brainless moron... No but atm you ARE SAFE if you ARE a brainless moron, think thats what peeps are upset about
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.08 08:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! gonna put this in my sig. Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:25:00 - [35] oh.... So what Wrangler is saying is that if you get greifed in a mission : you should make a note of his name.. and when your next not doing much, hunt this nob down and greif HIS missions. what if he never does missions, how exactly do you greif a greifer? <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:30:00 - [36] If you want SOCIAL types of people to grief ANTI-SOCIAL types of people, then give them the means to do so already ! Now, what exactly COULD that be, I wonder... _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Mollyanna	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:31:00 - [37] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Then how about changing your marketing and FAQ to reflect that instead of misrepresenting your game in order to sell it. It's a pretty nasty slap in the face to new customers to offer them one game experience, and in fact deliver something else - tends to make them not happy with you or your company. -M
Feyd Darkholme Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:39:00 - [38] Well all kidding aside, TBH the wording of that quote is a little... troublesome. It does make it sound like the devs are condoning "griefing"... but I'm not going to be dragged into some retarded forum debate over it, or the issues behind the quote for that matter. ---------------
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Feyd Darkholme Well all kidding aside, TBH the wording of that quote is a little... troublesome. It does make it sound like the devs are condoning "griefing"... but I'm not going to be dragged into some retarded forum debate over it, or the issues behind the quote for that matter. I dont think its that much of a problem. As Devs have said before, Greifing was always possible and they do promote a "do what you want so long as its not an exploit" mentality. And I dont think they properly realised that making scan probing much easier would impact mission runners quite as much as this.. after all, they made scanning easier for exploration, not with the intention of making greifing "easier" more interesting is the comment about social people greifing antisocial people... is there a tutorial? lol <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
Wotar	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:02:00 - [40] In Eve, griefing is just another word for shooting at someone or taking their stuff. Please, leave meaningless words and phrases from other games at the door. Ta.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:05:00 - [41] I hate griefers.. they spoil my game And now Dev's joined griefers.. this is outrageous! I will now re-install WoW and play it. "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:07:00 - [42] tbh some griefing makes everything a bit interesting, without any smack, grief, general evilness both the game and forums would be pretty boring (of course as long as it doesn't go too far). Of course noone wants to be the victim of it, yet we all most likely have been at some point, or will be (unless your avatar has a little gold icon beneath it in which case you simply hit the WTFPWNBBQ button on the abuser). EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Thaneal Swiftbird	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! And you think making fun of an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population is what a community-manager is supposed to do? You think catering "funny" comments to a few griefing morons with social defects that should be treated in a closed sanatory will do any good? I fired people for much less... I just started out playing eve. I like the game and its open aspects. I do not fear a fair battle. But reading this forums and CCP¦s official reactions to major concerns of their playerbase makes me doubt the game will have much room for different playstiles in the future. The second I get catered as easy prey to some RL psyco (and I am not talking about eye to eye combat here) I am gone. I got lots of work, my free time is valuable to me. I would not even think about paying a game for the honour of "beeing griefed and griefing back". Greetings Thaneal Swiftbird
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Skyy Edited by: Skyy on 08/12/2006 05:18:55 Trust me... once it becomes "more difficult" the griefers will stop. Anything that is any form of effort is just too much for them. QFT Most of these people who are currently griefing mission runners are idiots who are currently taking advantage of an "idiot-proof" scanning system. As soon as something requires an ounce of effort or thought for them, they'll stop, as there really isn't much to gain from "griefing" high sec mission runners. Then they'll go to low sec, try to do the same thing and get blown up by real pirates and PvPers.
Shadow Lightbringer Nightghosts Inc	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Thaneal Swiftbird Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! And you think making fun of an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population is what a community-manager is supposed to do? You think catering "funny" comments to a few griefing morons with social defects that should be treated in a closed sanatory will do any good? I fired people for much less... I just started out playing eve. I like the game and its open aspects. I do not fear a fair battle. But reading this forums and CCP¦s official reactions to major concerns of their playerbase makes me doubt the game will have much room for different playstiles in the future. The second I get catered as easy prey to some RL psyco (and I am not talking about eye to eye combat here) I am gone. I got lots of work, my free time is valuable to me. I would not even think about paying a game for the honour of "beeing griefed and griefing back". Greetings Thaneal Swiftbird Welcome to EVE, where people will destroy your ship, step on your ketchup packets, and steal your kitten for no better reason than you were a convenient target. When you come up against someone who knows what they are doing, there is no way you will experience a fair fight because he will be too busy killing you to think, "Gee, I wonder if this is really fair?" As far as your claim, "...an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population..." I would like to see you prove that. I am betting it is only a majority in your mind. ---
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Thaneal Swiftbird Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! And you think making fun of an issue that could well drive off a majority of eve¦s population is what a community-manager is supposed to do? You think catering "funny" comments to a few griefing morons with social defects that should be treated in a closed sanatory will do any good? I fired people for much less... I just started out playing eve. I like the game and its open aspects. I do not fear a fair battle. But reading this forums and CCP¦s official reactions to major concerns of their playerbase makes me doubt the game will have much room for different playstiles in the future. The second I get catered as easy prey to some RL psyco (and I am not talking about eye to eye combat here) I am gone. I got lots of work, my free time is valuable to me. I would not even think about paying a game for the honour of "beeing griefed and griefing back". Greetings Thaneal Swiftbird Whoah, hold there Mr. Social defect. You don't like PVP, you go play wow. It's great being Amarr, aint it?

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:45:00 - [47] Well, griefer is defined by us as: Quote: A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersÆ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. And obviously these kinds of people really don't have any place in a game like EVE. Unfortunately the term griefer is generally defined as pretty much any player attacking a player who doesn't wish to fight, no matter where that player is or what he is doing. This is of course completely wrong, EVE is a PvP game after all. Much in the same way as a carebear is defined as someone who doesn't like PvP, which is also not true. Anyway, In EVE you can even attack another player if you are in high sec space, though that will cost you your ship it is also entirely possible you will manage to destroy the one you attack first, though that is not usually the outcome. Anyway, the point is, no, we do not wish to see griefers, but we do like to see conflict and such in different ways, because that is a big part of EVE. And I think I used up todays quota of the word "anyway". Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

OneSock	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:49:00 - [48] There are many mechanisms CCP could adopt to stop mission griefing. They choose not to do it, but they make it harder. In effect they are condoning it to a certain extent.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:09:00 - [49] Yes some of the devs are indeed PK ,were is that thread in wich it shows tomb caracter in UO? Lol at the op.
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:10:00 - [50] Originally by: OneSock IMO while PVE remains in the game CCP have a responsibility to the player base to provide relatively safe PVE environment. At least the PVE'er should be able to engage a gate crasher without concord intervention and the gatecrasher should not be able to affect the PVE'er's standing by screwing up the mission objective. See - there you are wrong. CCP have absolutely no responsibility to do anything of the sort. There is NO SEPERATION of "pvp" and "pve" stuff in this game. all the PvE you are doing gets resources for the PvP part of the game - so if someone wants to beat you in PvP, one of the ways they can plan to do this is to stop you from getting the resources to PvP - ie, hinder your PvE isk making activities. Heck, my corp was just in a war because someone didn't like that we were mission running in their backyard. if you want to engage freely - go to 0.4 and under sec space. Although i do agree that mission critical drops (keys etc) should be only seen by the players in the gang doing the mission.

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:11:00 - [51] EVE is a PvP game in the way that no matter where you are in EVE, except docked in a station, you can target and fire on the other ship. EVE isn't all about PvP, but the possibility for PvP exists everywhere in EVE, and in that sense it is a PvP game. As for this particular issue, I believe Oveur says it best in his forum post on the topic: Originally by: Oveur Two things to take into consideration here, you are supposed to be able to scan out people, whether they are doing missions, mining or hiding. On the other hand, it's not supposed to be too easy to find everyone. TomB is looking into the scanner balancing specifically around this, let's see what his findings are. Which I would interpret as it is too easy now, but the possibility of it will/should exist in the future even if it should be harder to do. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:11:00 - [52] It is completely amazing to see how stupid mission runners are. Wrangler, a well respected Dev who works for CCP clearly stated that this is a PvP game and yet you continue to disagree with him. Utterly amazing. Anyhow, it should put to bed the mission runner 'I can play the game the way I want to because it isn't a PvP game...' claim. Move out to 0.0 as was intended. Empire is for newer players and trading, not mission running.
OneSock	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Crumplecorn On the first point, see the above, on the second point, you're definition of PvP is screwy. How so screwy ? explain. All I am saying is that CCP provided high sec, relatively safe PVE and that has effectively been taken away. If CCP want to make the game more PVP oriented then why not throw away high sec and let us all get on with it. If CCP want PVE to remain in the game then they make it safer. I'm not saying it should be perfectly secure. I just made a couple of suggestions on ways to improve it. What do you suggest ?
Verone Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! OMGF TEH FUNNAY... VETO FOR HIRE
Seldon Corran Caldari Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: OneSock There are many mechanisms CCP could adopt to stop mission griefing. They choose not to do it, but they make it harder. In effect they are condoning it to a certain extent. Except as I just posted, EVE is a PvP game. PvP isn't the only thing in EVE, but it is essentially allowed everywhere. Pirates lurk ar stargates to prey on ships transporting valuable things. You can see people doing complexes as a sort of treasure hunters, if EVE is a PvP game, why would pirates not lurk around complexes or even search out players to steal their treasure? It shouldn't be too easy, but it should be a possibility, and I do believe the term griefer is incorrectly used in the quoted part. Though you have to remember that it is not a final patch note if I understand it correctly. And I might as well point out that I'm not a PvPer, if I even do any form of combat it is in missions. Well I am glad I finally saw a Dev answer my question as to what Eve is supposed to be, PvE/PvP or PvP. When I signed up 8 months ago I was under the impression that I could PvE in relative safety in high sec, and that I was opening myself up for PvP by venturing into low sec. I understood that I could still be shot at in high sec, but I assumed that once I was in a PvE enviroment (missions in this case) I was safe enough to enjoy the game as I saw fit. I am not complaining here, so please dont jump down my throat PvP players, I obviously just misunderstood 'your' game and what I could do in it. Well this account expires on the 13th and I am letting my alt's GTC expire.. so I guess for the moment it's back to City of Heroes/Villains for me, WoW doesnt interest me at the moment snaps spandex Thanks for the fun you gave me during the 8 months though It truely is a beautiful game, just not the one I thought it was.
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! its true, there is a god ______________________________________
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:20:00 - [57] Lol, the proof is astonishing ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:20:00 - [58] Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Exiled One Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Wrangler EVE is a PvP game after all. Your wrong infact. Eve is a game which allows PVP, it also permits PVE in deadspace missions, cosmos etc. There is usually a clear deliniation between the two but this is obviously more blurred since revelations hit us with uber probing. If Eve is a PVP game, delete mission running from the game, make npcs sell T2 equipment and we can all get down to some serious PVP. IMO while PVE remains in the game CCP have a responsibility to the player base to provide relatively safe PVE environment. At least the PVE'er should be able to engage a gate crasher without concord intervention and the gatecrasher should not be able to affect the PVE'er's standing by screwing up the mission objective. You got no bloody clues. Get back to your hole and post again in 3 years when you learn. I take it your a loser griefer then ? post something constructive or shut up. You just told a member of the Dev team and CCP's assistant community manager that he is wrong about what Eve is? Seriously what are you smoking? CCP's line has been consistent on this issue ever since the servers were switched on and their representative has confirmed it twice in this thread, Eve is a PvP game, all PvE activities within the game are carried out in the context of an environment that allows PvP. It amazes me how stubbornly people resist admitting this fact to themselves. Ok so you might not want to PvP, ok so there are elements of PvE in the game, ok there are places where it is harder to PvP but the overall context of the game isn't changed by any of those statements. Eve is a PvP game. I feel my IQ deteriorate by a point per minute every time I venture into the General Forum section, it's always a major relief to get back to the safety of CAOD where there's only a bit of smack to deal with Blog

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:23:00 - [59] Hey! Calm down here! Discussing things are good, even if it get's a bit heated at times. Letting the discussion degrade to insults and personal attacks is not. So get back to the discussion bit or I'll unleash the moderator team on y'all and then it'll just get nasty. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

OneSock	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:27:00 - [60] Originally by: Varis There is NO SEPERATION of "pvp" and "pve" stuff in this game. There is. High Sec and deadspace. If there is no seperation, take away high sec, take away deadspace. What we are talking about is how much seperation there should be. Like it or not there are players in the game who want PVE and have no interest in PVP at all. They build their trading empires and production lines which feed the PVPers needs for ships and modules. There are always risks in this game but recently that balance has been thrown towards PVPers and specfically those who want to make PVE mission runners miserable. I think that's wrong and I've made a couple of suggestions to improve it a bit. Feel free to disagree.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:30:00 - [61] Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Varis There is NO SEPERATION of "pvp" and "pve" stuff in this game. There is. Originally by: Wrangler EVE is a PvP game in the way that no matter where you are in EVE, except docked in a station, you can target and fire on the other ship. EVE isn't all about PvP, but the possibility for PvP exists everywhere in EVE, and in that sense it is a PvP game. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:30:00 - [62] Originally by: Wrangler Hey! Calm down here! Discussing things are good, even if it get's a bit heated at times. Letting the discussion degrade to insults and personal attacks is not. So get back to the discussion bit or I'll unleash the moderator team on y'all and then it'll just get nasty. Yeah but sometimes it is the only way to herd cattle (sheep, livestock, lemmings, etc) as they are incapable of making logical decisions :) A strong dose of reality is what is needed in this case. Plus, quite frankly they aren't intelligent enough to realize that it is CCP's game and not theirs. The problem here lies in the fact that they have used the same tactic in other mmo games to get their way and it has always worked in the past. Snap back to reality is that it won't work here - threatening to cancel your account holds about as much weight as a birthday party balloon. Falling into the trap ends up killing the game.
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:32:00 - [63] Originally by: Wrangler Hey! Calm down here! Discussing things are good, even if it get's a bit heated at times. Letting the discussion degrade to insults and personal attacks is not. So get back to the discussion bit or I'll unleash the moderator team on y'all and then it'll just get nasty. Will it involve pewpew and frozen corpses? It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Erichk Knaar Caldari Tactical Enterprise Group LTD The Imperial Order	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:33:00 - [64] Originally by: OneSock There is. High Sec and deadspace. If there is no seperation, take away high sec, take away deadspace. What we are talking about is how much seperation there should be. Like it or not there are players in the game who want PVE and have no interest in PVP at all. They build their trading empires and production lines which feed the PVPers needs for ships and modules. Do you have any idea how many wars have started over trading empires in Eve?
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:35:00 - [65] Originally by: Blacklight Eve is a PvP game. Actually, what Wrangler said was.... Quote: in that sense it is a PvP game. ...which is not the same as what you're saying. In fact what Wrangler said in full was. Quote: EVE isn't all about PvP, but the possibility for PvP exists everywhere in EVE, and in that sense it is a PvP game. Looking at each point one at a time. 1) Eve isn't all about PvP - that seems pretty clear to me. I'd actually disagree with this, because in Eve in everything you do involes some competition with other players. So perhaps this could mean that Eve is not a PvP game in the sense that it is not all about "combat PvP." That seems to be the case to me. 2) The possibility of PvP exists anywhere - I'm pretty sure this statement refers to "combat PvP" as much as all the other forms. You can be attacked anywhere in the Eve universe and this is a good thing IMO. Plus you can defend yourself against the hostile actions of players anywhere in the Universe, be it from a high sec pirate, an ore thief, a hostile alliance, a corp theif or even a hostile trader. Oddly missions seems to be the only place where you can't defend yourself against another player's hostile actions right now, but I'm sure that will be fixed in time. 3) in that sense it is a PvP game - basically, depending on how you describe Eve, it can be considered a PvP game. Originally by: Blacklight I feel my IQ deteriorate by a point per minute every time I venture into the General Forum section, I sympathise Blacklight, I feel the same when I read your's and Avon's posts. Perhaps we should form some sort of support group for our deteriorating IQs?
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:35:00 - [66] Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Varis There is NO SEPERATION of "pvp" and "pve" stuff in this game. There is. High Sec and deadspace. If there is no seperation, take away high sec, take away deadspace. What we are talking about is how much seperation there should be. Like it or not there are players in the game who want PVE and have no interest in PVP at all. They build their trading empires and production lines which feed the PVPers needs for ships and modules. There are always risks in this game but recently that balance has been thrown towards PVPers and specfically those who want to make PVE mission runners miserable. I think that's wrong and I've made a couple of suggestions to improve it a bit. Feel free to disagree. God you're stubborn. IF you have a interest only in PvE and oppose the idea of unconsentual PVP period... then you're in the wrong game. EVE will never ever stop you from shooting people, there are consequences defined by the security rating of the system you're in. But you're never stopped from killing each other. Saying industry is PvE is even funnier. Since no industry is done by the enviroment... you do realise that PvP means player vs player right. As in competition between players. Even ignoring that bit. Supplying a warrior with his sword, makes you a target of that warriors enemies, as such you are directly involved in pvp combat style as well. Making mission runners lives miserable is annoying. Especially if it's done with the pure purpose of being a annoying bastard. But people shoot griefer way to fast these days.
McBrite Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:36:00 - [67] Originally by: G'Kar Nomad In the Community Relations Manager's own words... Quote: Although the patch notes have not been assembled yet, the Devs have been working on a number of fixes and improvements for Tuesday's Revelations 1.2 patch. Among the items under consideration for the patch are: *Adjustments to the scan system so that: -griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult... The Dev's dirty little secret is out- DEVS LIKE TO SEE PLAYERS GRIEF EACH OTHER! CCP should change EVE-Online to Grief-Online! You could clearly see the Devs enjoy having a minority of losers grief other paying customers. I now suspect some of the Devs have actively griefed players (in-game) to get their kicks... I think you should be banned for using dirty sensationalism to harms ccp's reputation like that... But all I can do is hope that it's you that shows up on my scanner next... ;)
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:36:00 - [68] Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other! Thanks for the new sig, thats a class answer seriously would it not be possible to let high sec mission runners be scanned, but have the perp flagged as soon as he enters the mission space ? and allow gangs to kill anyone attacking a gang member or stealing from their cans ? that way mission runners have a chance to get organised, if they then dont take that chance they suffer the consequeces. Oh and keep the ickle rascals away from mission critical loot to, and make so if they aggro your rat spawn they get the aggro all over them, voila everyones happy, well maybe not the griefers, but screw them as they say in china Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Logan Xerxes ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:37:00 - [69] Originally by: OneSock RABBLE RABBLE I think you're playing the wrong game mate. I won't suggest one that you should, but I don't think EVE is one you'll enjoy in the long run.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots From Honour	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:38:00 - [70] No, there is no seperation. High sec is not meant to be a pvp-free area. As has been said, if high sec was meant to be pvp-free you wouldn't be able to shoot people in it. Deadspace is not meant to seperate you from people either, it's just an area in which you do your missions. You shouldn't be able to treat it as a super-safespot. I do think only the mission runner should be able to kill the mission essential rats, but other than that, grief away folks. Eve is a pvp oriented game. That's the beginning and end of it. The devs have said so, and they made the damn game. You aren't meant to live perfectly safe lives in 1.0 systems. Imo they should remove the majority of lvl 4 agents in high sec space, if not all of them. Miners and npcers have to head to lower sec space to get higher profits, why shouldn't mission runners?
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:40:00 - [71] Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Wrangler EVE is a PvP game after all. Your wrong infact. Eve is a game which allows PVP, it also permits PVE in deadspace missions, cosmos etc. There is usually a clear deliniation between the two but this is obviously more blurred since revelations hit us with uber probing. If Eve is a PVP game, delete mission running from the game, make npcs sell T2 equipment and we can all get down to some serious PVP. IMO while PVE remains in the game CCP have a responsibility to the player base to provide relatively safe PVE environment. At least the PVE'er should be able to engage a gate crasher without concord intervention and the gatecrasher should not be able to affect the PVE'er's standing by screwing up the mission objective. You win the "dumbest post of the week" award. Eve is not a pve game that allows pvp, its a pvp game that allows some pve, if the pvpers allow you to pve that is. Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Fink Angel Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:41:00 - [72] Wrangler actually posting here is a form of griefing, as the fanbois all work themselves up into such a spurt of furious delight they all explode in RL!
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:42:00 - [73] Originally by: Seldon Corran Well I am glad I finally saw a Dev answer my question as to what Eve is supposed to be, PvE/PvP or PvP. When I signed up 8 months ago I was under the impression that I could PvE in relative safety in high sec, and that I was opening myself up for PvP by venturing into low sec. I understood that I could still be shot at in high sec, but I assumed that once I was in a PvE enviroment (missions in this case) I was safe enough to enjoy the game as I saw fit. I am not complaining here, so please dont jump down my throat PvP players, I obviously just misunderstood 'your' game and what I could do in it. Well this account expires on the 13th and I am letting my alt's GTC expire.. so I guess for the moment it's back to City of Heroes/Villains for me, WoW doesnt interest me at the moment snaps spandex Thanks for the fun you gave me during the 8 months though It truely is a beautiful game, just not the one I thought it was. Can I have your stuff before you go? Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:47:00 - [74] Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Wrangler EVE is a PvP game after all. Your wrong infact. Eve is a game which allows PVP, it also permits PVE in deadspace missions, cosmos etc. There is usually a clear deliniation between the two but this is obviously more blurred since revelations hit us with uber probing. If Eve is a PVP game, delete mission running from the game, make npcs sell T2 equipment and we can all get down to some serious PVP. IMO while PVE remains in the game CCP have a responsibility to the player base to provide relatively safe PVE environment. At least the PVE'er should be able to engage a gate crasher without concord intervention and the gatecrasher should not be able to affect the PVE'er's standing by screwing up the mission objective. your wrong,and it seems an idiot too, you cannot play this game without PVP. Even using the Market is pvp. CCP have no responsibility to provide PVE pplayers with a safe envioronment, thats up to you fool.
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:47:00 - [75] Edited by: Varis on 08/12/2006 11:48:58 Originally by: OneSock Originally by: Varis There is NO SEPERATION of "pvp" and "pve" stuff in this game. There is. High Sec and deadspace. If there is no seperation, take away high sec, take away deadspace. What we are talking about is how much seperation there should be. Like it or not there are players in the game who want PVE and have no interest in PVP at all. They build their trading empires and production lines which feed the PVPers needs for ships and modules. There are always risks in this game but recently that balance has been thrown towards PVPers and specfically those who want to make PVE mission runners miserable. I think that's wrong and I've made a couple of suggestions to improve it a bit. Feel free to disagree. Oh dear. High sec is just patrolled by CONCORD. means that If someone shoots another player, concord will come in and shoot them. Deadspace just means that warp drives (and MWD) dont work so well, and need special acceperation gates to get to them - nothing more. In neither case does it mean "this is PvE only area" heck - there are missions, agents and deadspace in 0.0. does that mean that 0.0 is "PvE only" as well in your book? And thatks for letting me disagree. I think i will at this stage.

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