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Curzon Dax
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:17:00 -
[1]
Greetings, and this isn't your typical flame.
Pirates, you don't get it. CCP is a business. They're in the business to make profit. More players means more profit. Now ask and answer some questions for yourself.
1. Are there more hardcore PvPers in Eve, or more non hardcore PvPers?
2. Are there more lowsec griefers in Eve or people who don't want to be victimized?
3. If people want to PvP, is it available to them?
4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them?
5. Are both play styles conducive to fun?
At the end of the day, CCP will do what any company does and do their best to make as large of a customer base enjoy their product as possible. Making griefing easier doesn't gain more customers (you can't force people into lowsec). Making lowsec more profitable would draw very few people into lowsec. If lowsec had 10 million ISK bounty battleship rats that dropped faction loot, would lowsec be more populated? Doubt it. More players would try it, more pirates would hang in lowsec, and at the end of the day, you'll balance to what we have now. The griefers are in lowsec, the people who don't want to be taken advantage of aren't in lowsec. I like Empire, and I like 0.0. Nothing CCP does it going to bring me to lowsec, and most of us "carebears" feel that way. There's more of us than there are of you, and at the end of the day...a business model caters to the majority, not to the minority.
You want to pirate in lowsec, find some other pirates and grief them. Like draws their own kind, ya know?
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Fuujin
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:18:00 -
[2]
For the record the pirates term is too widely used to encompass all pvpers, there's pirates and then there's gankbears.
Hadean Drive Yards Tier 2 BC Pricing |
Lucifer Fellblade
Caldari
Ore Mongers
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:18:00 -
[3]
You've really got the sweeping generalisation thing down to a tee, well done.
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Saundra Fayid
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:25:00 -
[4]
Pirates
see also
ISS & related constituents i.e. ISSN
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Mary Wan
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:26:00 -
[5]
Most carebears (especially mission runners) I have talked to ingame are doing their carebearing to prep themselves for PVP. A lot of PVP'ers are former mission runners. I doubt many people play EVE with the sole intention of hardcore mining or mission whoring.
The problem comes when these people that "prepare" themselves for the PVP part of the game finally reach their goal (T2 fitted HACS, billions in wallet), and find that they dont automatically wtfpwn the **** out of everybody. It's an ego thing... same reason why they get so angry when they get blown up carebearing.
Anyway, main point is that if you carebear-ize the game even more than kali has done, CCP will find that they lose a good chunk of the carebear population as well as the PVP crowd, cause most carebears are just doing their mindless boring grinding to "prepare" for PVP.
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Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:27:00 -
[6]
No worries... ill get you on your way in between the two....
ok ok that was harsh, i dont hate mods.. as an apology the mod who shows the most wuv gets a free mercedes...
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:28:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/12/2006 20:30:14
Summary of your post:
1. I don't like PvPers. They should leave me alone.
2. CCP would make more profit if they made EVE into World of Warcraft in Space. Even though they have said that they will never abandon the ideals that made EVE into the niche game it is, they should because I said so.
3. Pirates are "griefers."
4. All PvPers can be placed under a single wide category of player and are different from everyone else.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:29:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/12/2006 20:29:37
 Originally by: Curzon Dax
At the end of the day, CCP will do what any company does and do their best to make as large of a customer base enjoy their product as possible.
Then they would have removed piracy a long time ago and made a mission runner game.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:32:00 -
[9]
Hello NPC corporation Player. Nice to see you care about the general population out there. I would like to invite you to my sig. Its a nice and warm place to learn EVE.
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New NPC |
Chewan Mesa
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mary Wan
Most carebears (especially mission runners) I have talked to ingame are doing their carebearing to prep themselves for PVP. A lot of PVP'ers are former mission runners. I doubt many people play EVE with the sole intention of hardcore mining or mission whoring.
The problem comes when these people that "prepare" themselves for the PVP part of the game finally reach their goal (T2 fitted HACS, billions in wallet), and find that they dont automatically wtfpwn the **** out of everybody. It's an ego thing... same reason why they get so angry when they get blown up carebearing.
Anyway, main point is that if you carebear-ize the game even more than kali has done, CCP will find that they lose a good chunk of the carebear population as well as the PVP crowd, cause most carebears are just doing their mindless boring grinding to "prepare" for PVP.
Thumbs up...
Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected]) |
Redart
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
1. Are there more hardcore PvPers in Eve, or more non hardcore PvPers? Most people are attracted to the hardcore PVP. So, yes. There are more hardcore PVPers than Non.
2. Are there more lowsec griefers in Eve or people who don't want to be victimized? Nobody want's to be victimized. But, I would have to say there are more lowsec "griefers" if you don't count the Trial accounts.
<snip>
4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them? No sir. The market is even a form of PVP. TYVM. Unlike other games, that have no real economy.
<snip>
--------
Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
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Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:47:00 -
[12]
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooob
ok ok that was harsh, i dont hate mods.. as an apology the mod who shows the most wuv gets a free mercedes...
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:53:00 -
[13]
OP - you really do need to learn that the game is not made for empire mission running, mining folk such as yourself. The game ACCOMODATES you because that is your prefered style of game. And you're right - ccp is a company. So much so, that they dont want to lose customers such as yourself, by doing what is already nearly happening which is the majority of eve being fully pvp. (long way off, but comparing to 2003 for example ^^)
Eve is Pvp. The economy (as the previous poster stated) is pvp. The entire game, is modelled, textured, even run by pvp. So the changes are based on pvp.
And pirating just fyi isnt victimising. Its a form of gameplay. Lowsec might as well be high sec. Pirates add variety, and non-linear gameplay to eve. Forcing more people into low sec INCREASES the variety in eve, and means less linear 'WoW' style gameplay. And i know damnwell that no one on these forums, bar from the likes of you, want EVE to become WoW.
So i say - BOO to this post
*Waxau throws his bra at the Stage
Whoosp - Wrong thing..
*Waxau throws a tomato at the stage
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Kal Oman
Delta Desperados
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:54:00 -
[14]
Since I have been in EvE (well over a year)...CCP has been all about a good game and than popularity. I hope they have not changed this....
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.12.08 21:00:00 -
[15]
You missed out a few things.
1) Pirates are not unique to low sec, some bridge the low sec / 0.0 divide, some specialise in 0.0 piracy.
2) Most alliances do not give a damn about their military ganking targets of opportunity during peacetime, so long as they keep their sec status above -1.9.
3) Many happy shiny people in 0.0 are happy to coexist with a couple of pirate corps which will act as a filter ahead of their precious chokepoint. The really clever ones will have an informal understanding worked out.
4) High sec space is not a politics-free zone: people can still get war decced.
5) What is play style when you can have a HAC pilot and a barge pilot on the same account?
6) And still people assume that low sec is a place to seek their fortune alone, without doing their research and talking to the locals.
You seem to be drawing solid boundaries where none exist.
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SuperJyinn
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Posted - 2006.12.08 21:11:00 -
[16]
Carebears don't get it. Pirates improve your Eve experience. You need pirates to destroy ships, and modules to increase the demand for your carebear mining and modules. People rarely lose ships from missions or mining. Think about it, pirates are good for the eve economy.
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Kojiami
Dark Empire Fleet
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.08 21:13:00 -
[17]
I'm a pirate. I'm not a griefer, i'm not pirating to cause people misery. I enyoy the heat of battle, pvp in general. I like the loot people drop. I can sell it and make isk from it.
I don't gank mission runners, that's lame. Stop pushing us all in a box.
--------------
Enotz> dude
Enotz> **** YOU
Enotz> ******* **** YOU
Enotz> **** YOU WITH A RED HOT IRON ROD UP THE ASS |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.08 21:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them?
About point 4, the answer is yes. Although it's not as simple as a checkbox you mark, or a special server you join. It has to do with making choices, and managing risks. Instead of "option" it's more like "opportunity" or "challenge".
I wish more games had that philosophy.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.08 21:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mary Wan
Anyway, main point is that if you carebear-ize the game even more than kali has done, CCP will find that they lose a good chunk of the carebear population as well as the PVP crowd, cause most carebears are just doing their mindless boring grinding to "prepare" for PVP.
Thsi guy nailed it. I mission run a ton but not because I prefer it. I just do it to recoup the losses I take in PVP encounters. I tied mining for money but it not only boring for me, but also boring for the people standing guard.
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Haffrage
Revelations Inc.
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.08 21:26:00 -
[20]
Woah woah, hey now. I thought PVPers and 0.0 alliances outnumbered the empire bears by a long shot. All this time I've been wrong, and they really do outnumber us? And still, all they do is whine and talk about doing things about it?
CCP needs to cater to the "masses," in other words "I want things the way I want them." Have fun in your lagless, pirateless, PVPless server when nobody lives in 0.0 anymore but hardcore mission running and mining bears, and when that bores even them, well, god help you 
-----
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente
Spectral Armada
Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.09 06:45:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 09/12/2006 06:47:09
Originally by: Fuujin
For the record the pirates term is too widely used to encompass all pvpers, there's pirates and then there's gankbears.
And then 0.0 pvp... which is kinda like piracy but with no gate guns... and no sec... and you really hate the people you get to kill cos you have to live with them out there...
Also a lot of people wanna try 0.0 they just dont know how... my advice: MAKE AN ALT. you have 3 char slots.. .make a new uber 800k sp alt and get your ass to 0.0, dont follow the autopilot and use a shuttle...
I think i might write a guide on this.. a really basic one...
Quote:
Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story
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slothe
Caldari
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:42:00 -
[22]
i wonder how many different threads cover the same content as this :/
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Greetings, and this isn't your typical flame.
Pirates, you don't get it. CCP is a business. They're in the business to make profit. More players means more profit. Now ask and answer some questions for yourself.
1. Are there more hardcore PvPers in Eve, or more non hardcore PvPers?
2. Are there more lowsec griefers in Eve or people who don't want to be victimized?
3. If people want to PvP, is it available to them?
4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them?
5. Are both play styles conducive to fun?
At the end of the day, CCP will do what any company does and do their best to make as large of a customer base enjoy their product as possible. Making griefing easier doesn't gain more customers (you can't force people into lowsec). Making lowsec more profitable would draw very few people into lowsec. If lowsec had 10 million ISK bounty battleship rats that dropped faction loot, would lowsec be more populated? Doubt it. More players would try it, more pirates would hang in lowsec, and at the end of the day, you'll balance to what we have now. The griefers are in lowsec, the people who don't want to be taken advantage of aren't in lowsec. I like Empire, and I like 0.0. Nothing CCP does it going to bring me to lowsec, and most of us "carebears" feel that way. There's more of us than there are of you, and at the end of the day...a business model caters to the majority, not to the minority.
You want to pirate in lowsec, find some other pirates and grief them. Like draws their own kind, ya know?
i'd read what you just said but i've reached my aneurysm quota for the day. go play in trafic ect ect.
"When still up after 30 hours you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm." |
Jollyreaper
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:50:00 -
[24]
Maybe a veteran player will know how to start pvp successfully with a new character. Non-vets are still getting the hang of things. Since ships are near and dear, nobody wants to risk something good in a fight until they think they're ready. Since there's no "non-fatal" pvp practice out there, people are cautious. Sure, you can form a gang with corpmates and try to practice that way but it won't always prepare you for the real deal. And ratting ain't like PVP.
I'm about ready to start looking into PVP because I've got a bankroll to replace my ship if I lose it. I still need to have a handle on how to best pick fights that I can win. But when I'm doing that, I'll be in lowsec or 0.0. I'm opting in.
Eve's setup is great because people who want to avoid PVP for the time being can stay in high sec and feel relatively secure. It provides the best of both worlds.
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Thaneal Swiftbird
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Posted - 2006.12.09 08:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kojiami
I'm a pirate. I'm not a griefer, i'm not pirating to cause people misery. I enyoy the heat of battle, pvp in general. I like the loot people drop. I can sell it and make isk from it.
I don't gank mission runners, that's lame. Stop pushing us all in a box.
QFT
Same applies to the "other" side. I am a miner, a wannabe builder, a trader and a mission runner. I am not a coward. I like to fight back and I have been living/mining/missioning and trading in 0.4-0.3 systems when I was a two week old.
Real Pirates (those looking for a fight, not a lame gank) are indeed the salt and pepper of this game. What CCP has to take care about is the scum "in between". Those lowly cowards abusing game mechanics to have "fun" with others at no risk.
There allways has to be a balance and a way to fight back (One thing that buggers me, why is there not a single cargo/mining ship capable of at least some basic defense? Ever took a look at the cargo capacity vs. size and number of guns of battleships in 15th-17th century? Did anyone ever take a look at how many friggin cannons a standard trade-ship of the East-India Company would carry? They had up to three gundecks, and were able to take out average pirate-vessles in a single volley! It needed some real smart and determined pirates to overcome them! Are all industrial-ship constructors in eve insane morons with a favour for tissue-paper?)
Time will tell if the devs understand the difference between griefing and piracy/pvp.
With best regards
Thaneal Swiftbird
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mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.12.09 08:35:00 -
[26]
Edited by: mazzilliu on 09/12/2006 08:35:29
i have seen the light!
1000% awesome guide to logging out |
Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.09 08:45:00 -
[27]
Hi all,
Quote:
If lowsec had 10 million ISK bounty battleship rats that dropped faction loot, would lowsec be more populated? Doubt it.
Sure Ill be there in a second. The people whos only goal is to level up their wallet(aka you) are only hiding in empire because they get risk free isk.
Most pirates only pve to replace the losses, once thats done they go loose another ship. Personally Ill be where ever I get the most isk for my time.
So heres a hint: Nerf empire rewards and boost lowsec. People seem to follow thier wallets so throw their wallets into lowsec.
,
<VTIL> Pham Sirge
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Miss Overlord
time for a carebear server where no one can touch em and they can PVE to their hears content and a PVP server where everything is free nothing in the PVE field but endless PVP for all. Lets just do away with the idea of an intergrated universe
I will chop you into pieces.
It's great being Amarr, aint it? |
dantes inferno
Caldari
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:24:00 -
[29]
ohh noes ccp will cater to the majority mission runner..damn i must now run to empire and grind missions so i can cary on playing. whinning caerbears should be strung up by their intestinial track until they learn to stfu
RAM is recruiting |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:27:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 09/12/2006 09:28:15
For those saying empire is a risk free isk making zone, you really need to pay more attention to the weekly threads:
1) OMGWTF I got ganked in hi sec - weekly thread.
2) OMGWTF noobie corp got wardeked in high sec - weekly thread
3) OMGWTF helped guy in high sec, Ganked by POS - weekly thread
Empire has never been safe.
I frecuent a 0.3 system. Full of PvPiers, I know everybody there. I feel safer there than in high sec or even 0.0 alliance space.
Look at the map, check everyday, ship looses in jita, then tell me if empire is safe. It's even listed in EON magazine.
So don't say empire is safe, cuz it has never been. |
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