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Curzon Dax Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:17:00 - [1] Greetings, and this isn't your typical flame. Pirates, you don't get it. CCP is a business. They're in the business to make profit. More players means more profit. Now ask and answer some questions for yourself. 1. Are there more hardcore PvPers in Eve, or more non hardcore PvPers? 2. Are there more lowsec griefers in Eve or people who don't want to be victimized? 3. If people want to PvP, is it available to them? 4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them? 5. Are both play styles conducive to fun? At the end of the day, CCP will do what any company does and do their best to make as large of a customer base enjoy their product as possible. Making griefing easier doesn't gain more customers (you can't force people into lowsec). Making lowsec more profitable would draw very few people into lowsec. If lowsec had 10 million ISK bounty battleship rats that dropped faction loot, would lowsec be more populated? Doubt it. More players would try it, more pirates would hang in lowsec, and at the end of the day, you'll balance to what we have now. The griefers are in lowsec, the people who don't want to be taken advantage of aren't in lowsec. I like Empire, and I like 0.0. Nothing CCP does it going to bring me to lowsec, and most of us "carebears" feel that way. There's more of us than there are of you, and at the end of the day...a business model caters to the majority, not to the minority. You want to pirate in lowsec, find some other pirates and grief them. Like draws their own kind, ya know?
Fuujin Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:18:00 - [2] For the record the pirates term is too widely used to encompass all pvpers, there's pirates and then there's gankbears. Hadean Drive Yards Tier 2 BC Pricing
Lucifer Fellblade Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:18:00 - [3] You've really got the sweeping generalisation thing down to a tee, well done. ------
Saundra Fayid	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:25:00 - [4] Pirates see also ISS & related constituents i.e. ISSN
Mary Wan	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:26:00 - [5] Most carebears (especially mission runners) I have talked to ingame are doing their carebearing to prep themselves for PVP. A lot of PVP'ers are former mission runners. I doubt many people play EVE with the sole intention of hardcore mining or mission whoring. The problem comes when these people that "prepare" themselves for the PVP part of the game finally reach their goal (T2 fitted HACS, billions in wallet), and find that they dont automatically wtfpwn the **** out of everybody. It's an ego thing... same reason why they get so angry when they get blown up carebearing. Anyway, main point is that if you carebear-ize the game even more than kali has done, CCP will find that they lose a good chunk of the carebear population as well as the PVP crowd, cause most carebears are just doing their mindless boring grinding to "prepare" for PVP.
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:27:00 - [6] No worries... ill get you on your way in between the two.... ok ok that was harsh, i dont hate mods.. as an apology the mod who shows the most wuv gets a free mercedes...
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:28:00 - [7] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/12/2006 20:30:14 Summary of your post: 1. I don't like PvPers. They should leave me alone. 2. CCP would make more profit if they made EVE into World of Warcraft in Space. Even though they have said that they will never abandon the ideals that made EVE into the niche game it is, they should because I said so. 3. Pirates are "griefers." 4. All PvPers can be placed under a single wide category of player and are different from everyone else. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:29:00 - [8] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/12/2006 20:29:37 Originally by: Curzon Dax At the end of the day, CCP will do what any company does and do their best to make as large of a customer base enjoy their product as possible. Then they would have removed piracy a long time ago and made a mission runner game. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:32:00 - [9] Hello NPC corporation Player. Nice to see you care about the general population out there. I would like to invite you to my sig. Its a nice and warm place to learn EVE. ------------------------------------- New NPC
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Mary Wan Most carebears (especially mission runners) I have talked to ingame are doing their carebearing to prep themselves for PVP. A lot of PVP'ers are former mission runners. I doubt many people play EVE with the sole intention of hardcore mining or mission whoring. The problem comes when these people that "prepare" themselves for the PVP part of the game finally reach their goal (T2 fitted HACS, billions in wallet), and find that they dont automatically wtfpwn the **** out of everybody. It's an ego thing... same reason why they get so angry when they get blown up carebearing. Anyway, main point is that if you carebear-ize the game even more than kali has done, CCP will find that they lose a good chunk of the carebear population as well as the PVP crowd, cause most carebears are just doing their mindless boring grinding to "prepare" for PVP. Thumbs up... Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected])

Redart	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. Are there more hardcore PvPers in Eve, or more non hardcore PvPers? Most people are attracted to the hardcore PVP. So, yes. There are more hardcore PVPers than Non. 2. Are there more lowsec griefers in Eve or people who don't want to be victimized? Nobody want's to be victimized. But, I would have to say there are more lowsec "griefers" if you don't count the Trial accounts. <snip> 4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them? No sir. The market is even a form of PVP. TYVM. Unlike other games, that have no real economy. <snip> -------- Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:47:00 - [12] Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooob ok ok that was harsh, i dont hate mods.. as an apology the mod who shows the most wuv gets a free mercedes...
Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:53:00 - [13] OP - you really do need to learn that the game is not made for empire mission running, mining folk such as yourself. The game ACCOMODATES you because that is your prefered style of game. And you're right - ccp is a company. So much so, that they dont want to lose customers such as yourself, by doing what is already nearly happening which is the majority of eve being fully pvp. (long way off, but comparing to 2003 for example ^^) Eve is Pvp. The economy (as the previous poster stated) is pvp. The entire game, is modelled, textured, even run by pvp. So the changes are based on pvp. And pirating just fyi isnt victimising. Its a form of gameplay. Lowsec might as well be high sec. Pirates add variety, and non-linear gameplay to eve. Forcing more people into low sec INCREASES the variety in eve, and means less linear 'WoW' style gameplay. And i know damnwell that no one on these forums, bar from the likes of you, want EVE to become WoW. So i say - BOO to this post Waxau throws his bra at the Stage Whoosp - Wrong thing.. Waxau throws a tomato at the stage
Kal Oman Delta Desperados	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:54:00 - [14] Since I have been in EvE (well over a year)...CCP has been all about a good game and than popularity. I hope they have not changed this....
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2006.12.08 21:00:00 - [15] You missed out a few things. 1) Pirates are not unique to low sec, some bridge the low sec / 0.0 divide, some specialise in 0.0 piracy. 2) Most alliances do not give a damn about their military ganking targets of opportunity during peacetime, so long as they keep their sec status above -1.9. 3) Many happy shiny people in 0.0 are happy to coexist with a couple of pirate corps which will act as a filter ahead of their precious chokepoint. The really clever ones will have an informal understanding worked out. 4) High sec space is not a politics-free zone: people can still get war decced. 5) What is play style when you can have a HAC pilot and a barge pilot on the same account? 6) And still people assume that low sec is a place to seek their fortune alone, without doing their research and talking to the locals. You seem to be drawing solid boundaries where none exist.
SuperJyinn	Posted - 2006.12.08 21:11:00 - [16] Carebears don't get it. Pirates improve your Eve experience. You need pirates to destroy ships, and modules to increase the demand for your carebear mining and modules. People rarely lose ships from missions or mining. Think about it, pirates are good for the eve economy.
Kojiami Dark Empire Fleet Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.08 21:13:00 - [17] I'm a pirate. I'm not a griefer, i'm not pirating to cause people misery. I enyoy the heat of battle, pvp in general. I like the loot people drop. I can sell it and make isk from it. I don't gank mission runners, that's lame. Stop pushing us all in a box. -------------- Enotz> dude Enotz> ** YOU Enotz> *** YOU Enotz> ** YOU WITH A RED HOT IRON ROD UP THE ASS
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.08 21:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Curzon Dax 4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them? About point 4, the answer is yes. Although it's not as simple as a checkbox you mark, or a special server you join. It has to do with making choices, and managing risks. Instead of "option" it's more like "opportunity" or "challenge". I wish more games had that philosophy. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Rman	Posted - 2006.12.08 21:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Mary Wan Anyway, main point is that if you carebear-ize the game even more than kali has done, CCP will find that they lose a good chunk of the carebear population as well as the PVP crowd, cause most carebears are just doing their mindless boring grinding to "prepare" for PVP. Thsi guy nailed it. I mission run a ton but not because I prefer it. I just do it to recoup the losses I take in PVP encounters. I tied mining for money but it not only boring for me, but also boring for the people standing guard.
Haffrage Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.08 21:26:00 - [20] Woah woah, hey now. I thought PVPers and 0.0 alliances outnumbered the empire bears by a long shot. All this time I've been wrong, and they really do outnumber us? And still, all they do is whine and talk about doing things about it? CCP needs to cater to the "masses," in other words "I want things the way I want them." Have fun in your lagless, pirateless, PVPless server when nobody lives in 0.0 anymore but hardcore mission running and mining bears, and when that bores even them, well, god help you -----

Aphotic Raven Gallente Spectral Armada Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.12.09 06:45:00 - [21] Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 09/12/2006 06:47:09 Originally by: Fuujin For the record the pirates term is too widely used to encompass all pvpers, there's pirates and then there's gankbears. And then 0.0 pvp... which is kinda like piracy but with no gate guns... and no sec... and you really hate the people you get to kill cos you have to live with them out there... Also a lot of people wanna try 0.0 they just dont know how... my advice: MAKE AN ALT. you have 3 char slots.. .make a new uber 800k sp alt and get your ass to 0.0, dont follow the autopilot and use a shuttle... I think i might write a guide on this.. a really basic one... Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be **ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ***** nerf. True story
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.09 07:42:00 - [22] i wonder how many different threads cover the same content as this :/ *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Merchantigus Minmatar Riot Zone	Posted - 2006.12.09 07:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Curzon Dax Greetings, and this isn't your typical flame. Pirates, you don't get it. CCP is a business. They're in the business to make profit. More players means more profit. Now ask and answer some questions for yourself. 1. Are there more hardcore PvPers in Eve, or more non hardcore PvPers? 2. Are there more lowsec griefers in Eve or people who don't want to be victimized? 3. If people want to PvP, is it available to them? 4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them? 5. Are both play styles conducive to fun? At the end of the day, CCP will do what any company does and do their best to make as large of a customer base enjoy their product as possible. Making griefing easier doesn't gain more customers (you can't force people into lowsec). Making lowsec more profitable would draw very few people into lowsec. If lowsec had 10 million ISK bounty battleship rats that dropped faction loot, would lowsec be more populated? Doubt it. More players would try it, more pirates would hang in lowsec, and at the end of the day, you'll balance to what we have now. The griefers are in lowsec, the people who don't want to be taken advantage of aren't in lowsec. I like Empire, and I like 0.0. Nothing CCP does it going to bring me to lowsec, and most of us "carebears" feel that way. There's more of us than there are of you, and at the end of the day...a business model caters to the majority, not to the minority. You want to pirate in lowsec, find some other pirates and grief them. Like draws their own kind, ya know? i'd read what you just said but i've reached my aneurysm quota for the day. go play in trafic ect ect. "When still up after 30 hours you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm."
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2006.12.09 07:50:00 - [24] Maybe a veteran player will know how to start pvp successfully with a new character. Non-vets are still getting the hang of things. Since ships are near and dear, nobody wants to risk something good in a fight until they think they're ready. Since there's no "non-fatal" pvp practice out there, people are cautious. Sure, you can form a gang with corpmates and try to practice that way but it won't always prepare you for the real deal. And ratting ain't like PVP. I'm about ready to start looking into PVP because I've got a bankroll to replace my ship if I lose it. I still need to have a handle on how to best pick fights that I can win. But when I'm doing that, I'll be in lowsec or 0.0. I'm opting in. Eve's setup is great because people who want to avoid PVP for the time being can stay in high sec and feel relatively secure. It provides the best of both worlds.
Thaneal Swiftbird	Posted - 2006.12.09 08:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Kojiami I'm a pirate. I'm not a griefer, i'm not pirating to cause people misery. I enyoy the heat of battle, pvp in general. I like the loot people drop. I can sell it and make isk from it. I don't gank mission runners, that's lame. Stop pushing us all in a box. QFT Same applies to the "other" side. I am a miner, a wannabe builder, a trader and a mission runner. I am not a coward. I like to fight back and I have been living/mining/missioning and trading in 0.4-0.3 systems when I was a two week old. Real Pirates (those looking for a fight, not a lame gank) are indeed the salt and pepper of this game. What CCP has to take care about is the scum "in between". Those lowly cowards abusing game mechanics to have "fun" with others at no risk. There allways has to be a balance and a way to fight back (One thing that buggers me, why is there not a single cargo/mining ship capable of at least some basic defense? Ever took a look at the cargo capacity vs. size and number of guns of battleships in 15th-17th century? Did anyone ever take a look at how many friggin cannons a standard trade-ship of the East-India Company would carry? They had up to three gundecks, and were able to take out average pirate-vessles in a single volley! It needed some real smart and determined pirates to overcome them! Are all industrial-ship constructors in eve insane morons with a favour for tissue-paper?) Time will tell if the devs understand the difference between griefing and piracy/pvp. With best regards Thaneal Swiftbird
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.09 08:35:00 - [26] Edited by: mazzilliu on 09/12/2006 08:35:29 i have seen the light! 1000% awesome guide to logging out
Pham Sirge VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.09 08:45:00 - [27] Hi all, Quote: If lowsec had 10 million ISK bounty battleship rats that dropped faction loot, would lowsec be more populated? Doubt it. Sure Ill be there in a second. The people whos only goal is to level up their wallet(aka you) are only hiding in empire because they get risk free isk. Most pirates only pve to replace the losses, once thats done they go loose another ship. Personally Ill be where ever I get the most isk for my time. So heres a hint: Nerf empire rewards and boost lowsec. People seem to follow thier wallets so throw their wallets into lowsec. , <VTIL> Pham Sirge
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.12.09 09:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Miss Overlord time for a carebear server where no one can touch em and they can PVE to their hears content and a PVP server where everything is free nothing in the PVE field but endless PVP for all. Lets just do away with the idea of an intergrated universe I will chop you into pieces. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.09 09:24:00 - [29] ohh noes ccp will cater to the majority mission runner..damn i must now run to empire and grind missions so i can cary on playing. whinning caerbears should be strung up by their intestinial track until they learn to stfu RAM is recruiting
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.12.09 09:27:00 - [30] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 09/12/2006 09:28:15 For those saying empire is a risk free isk making zone, you really need to pay more attention to the weekly threads: 1) OMGWTF I got ganked in hi sec - weekly thread. 2) OMGWTF noobie corp got wardeked in high sec - weekly thread 3) OMGWTF helped guy in high sec, Ganked by POS - weekly thread Empire has never been safe. I frecuent a 0.3 system. Full of PvPiers, I know everybody there. I feel safer there than in high sec or even 0.0 alliance space. Look at the map, check everyday, ship looses in jita, then tell me if empire is safe. It's even listed in EON magazine. So don't say empire is safe, cuz it has never been.

Sinlare Gallente Sinlare Auditorium	Posted - 2006.12.09 09:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 09/12/2006 09:28:15 For those saying empire is a risk free isk making zone, you really need to pay more attention to the weekly threads: 1) OMGWTF I got ganked in hi sec - weekly thread. You can't get ganked in highsec - if you think before you act, and don't fly around your vagabond bpo in an ibis. 2) OMGWTF noobie corp got wardeked in high sec - weekly thread noobie corps, a.k.a. npc corporations can't be wardecced - player corps, a.k.a. not noobie corps can. 3) OMGWTF helped guy in high sec, Ganked by POS - weekly thread Think before you act, highsec pos dont randomly shoot people.
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.09 09:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Sinlare Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 09/12/2006 09:28:15 For those saying empire is a risk free isk making zone, you really need to pay more attention to the weekly threads: 1) OMGWTF I got ganked in hi sec - weekly thread. You can't get ganked in highsec - if you think before you act, and don't fly around your vagabond bpo in an ibis. 2) OMGWTF noobie corp got wardeked in high sec - weekly thread noobie corps, a.k.a. npc corporations can't be wardecced - player corps, a.k.a. not noobie corps can. 3) OMGWTF helped guy in high sec, Ganked by POS - weekly thread Think before you act, highsec pos dont randomly shoot people. So what is your point? Huh? High-sec is HIGH SEC not 0.0. wtf it's supposed to be 99% safe, with a small chance of taking one from behind.
pushdogg Minmatar The BlackSail Corp	Posted - 2006.12.09 09:44:00 - [33] lol, i dont care to read what you say, get over it, pie is everywhere, and if i get the chance, i will make your life completely miserable, just because mine is miserable
Sinlare Gallente Sinlare Auditorium	Posted - 2006.12.09 09:51:00 - [34] Originally by: BurnHard So what is your point? Huh? High-sec is HIGH SEC not 0.0. wtf it's supposed to be 99% safe, with a small chance of taking one from behind. The point is, you gotta be well high on drugs if you wanna die in highsec.
Exogene	Posted - 2006.12.09 10:11:00 - [35] If there were 10 mil BS spawns in low sec i would never leave low sec, pirate or no pirate
Expote RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.09 10:58:00 - [36] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/12/2006 20:30:14 Summary of your post: 1. I don't like PvPers. They should leave me alone. 2. CCP would make more profit if they made EVE into World of Warcraft in Space. Even though they have said that they will never abandon the ideals that made EVE into the niche game it is, they should because I said so. 3. Pirates are "griefers." 4. All PvPers can be placed under a single wide category of player and are different from everyone else. Excellent summary. Almost exactly what I though when reading the OP. EVE is the only good MMO with risk involved wherever you go. This hard environment is what makes it unique. The last thing we need is for CCP to give in to all the whines and make it like almost every other MMORPG out there. They've said they won't so I'm not worried about it though.
Trinity Faetal Gallente Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.09 11:11:00 - [37] anyone ever told you that the devs who make this game play as low sec miner/carebear ganking pirates in the game (who run away at the slightest suggestion that someone might shoot back ) ? i saw tomb and kieron ganking in amamake yesterday, griefers -- join channel Dope Dealerz if you wanna sell or can supply drugs on a regular basis.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2006.12.09 11:17:00 - [38] Your right i don't get it. are you talking to pvp'ers or pirates? gankers or griefers? because u address it to pirates but looks like ur trying to talk to all pvp'ers. I also don't actually get the point of this post tbh. DE
pyrofox mUfFiN fAcToRy Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.09 11:46:00 - [39] Sheesh you guys all lead such complicated lifes all them rules and morals.......your right i'm wrong yada yada Damn well sucks to be you guys....... 1. I want your ****, your mods whatever you got. 2. I will use whatever means are at my disposable to get it. 3. I will fraps the explosion your ship makes cos I like explosions. 4. I will frollick with your corse afterwards just for carnal pleasure. CCP can move the goalposts all they want it don't matter a jot to me or my corpies. Just gotta slap them round the head occasionlly to break of free of the mass hysteria induced "OMFG pirating is dead" paronia instigated by people that do not have a clue. Your post is just another 'typical about nothing flame' yada yada for the sake of it......... It's all about balance in eve and pirates are required for said balance. Who are you trying to convince of anything ? or are you trying to educate or correct See ya in lowsec when your travelling hi sec to 0.0 And above all remember kiddies its just a game please keep your R.L tainted morals out of game.
hUssmann Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:02:00 - [40] What's with all the use of "Griefer" lately, have you actually looked up CCP's definition? No, You haven't. Idiot term of griefer - "When I get my ship blown up" Idiot response when shooting someone else "They deserve it, it's not griefing" Newsflash, killing people in LOW SECURITY space is perfectly allowed within game mechanics whatever their age. High security, Is exactly that, HIGH security, Not PERFECTLY Secure, it's hard to gank someone in high-sec but not impossible. There's a difference between Lame and Game mechanics, a few of you need to learn this. Lameness happens, get over it, exploitation of game mechanics happens and CCP sort it. You can't cry "griefer" every time you get killed fair and square and expect CCP to cuddle you into it's bosom and ban everyone who is a threat Grow up. Phoenix Lonestar > Server lag was non-existant pre-Dragon

Neon Genesis Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:13:00 - [41] Edited by: Neon Genesis on 09/12/2006 14:13:12 Originally by: Fuujin For the record the pirates term is too widely used to encompass all pvpers, there's pirates and then there's gankbears. For the record the content of your post is worthless.
Requiescat Keepers of the Holy Bagel The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.12.09 14:26:00 - [42] For the record, I think this is the first "nerf pirates" thread I've seen since Revelations. High 5s all around! Good job m8s! Can't waste a day when the night brings a hearse So make your move and plead the fifth, 'cause you can't plead the first
Curzon Dax Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.09 16:02:00 - [43] Ok, ebil pirates read again. Apparently you missed the point. YOU CANNOT MAKE PEOPLE GO ANYWHERE. Regardless of how easy of victims you want. There are more people in highsec at any given time than there are in lowsec. And who the hell are you to speak for CCP? You say "CCP wanted highsec to be for new people to learn blah blah." That's a complete load of it. If that were the case, they would have made a few 1.0 constellations that carried everything necessary to learn the game and after 30 days of playing, you would be locked out of them. Just like Everquest 2. Once you finish the noobie zone, you enter the real world and no more access to the noobie zone. But they didn't did they? CCP supported a thriving high security galaxy which bustles with activity. What I'm saying is 1. Let people play the way they want to. 2. Get off your high horses. 3. Stop pretending that you know CCP's thoughts and feelings and that 4. They cater to your individual wishes AGAINST the majority. 5. Understand that lowsec is empty because YOU made it that way. 6. It will stay that way until you leave or carebears get to have bigger guns on their mining boats. 7. In life, easy money is rare. Very rare. You have to work for it. 8. Pirating is the same way. You want an easy victim? Its rare. 9. Don't equate PvP with pirating. There will NEVER be a shortage of PvP. Stop being a knee-knocking pansy and go get it. 10. Being the victim of pirating is NOT PvP. Don't even BEGIN to think that mission runners and miners who don't want to get ganked don't like PvP. Seriously, stop twisting views and pretending that you're a boon to the galaxy. You're pirates. Unlawful, despicable, robbing without sovereign, a plunderer. There's nothing noble in what you do, and those you want to pirate have far less defense than someone who PvPs. Which is why you're pansies. You're afraid of PvP unless your "opponent" is defenseless. By the way. I do PvP. I've been podded out of some +4 implants before, never pleasant. Lost some great ships, destroyed some others. I just scoff at pirating because you think you fit into the PvP scene. You don't. Want to pirate? Remember that the chance of "easy money" is not an every day thing. Want PvP? Look me up. Seriously. Look me up. Bring your ****zle. I'm an industrialist, not a PvPer, and I will still knock your tail between your legs and remind you why you stick to pirating instead of PvP. Really. I'm getting online now. /rant off
Phant Zon Minmatar No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.10 02:46:00 - [44] sighs First of all, "PvP" is a very simple term, it means, simply 'Player versus Player'. Thats it. It doesnt mean "Player versus Player in a fair fight where both sides consented to combat", or any other gobbledy**** that you think it does. Its much older than EVE, older than your /duel s on Everquest, and Ive been told it predates MUDs as well. Secondly, PVPers arent out to eat your puppies and ruin your day. Well, I suppose some of them are, theres always those types in any population you care to choose. Most of them dont think anything more of popping your hauler/npc BS/mining ship than they would putting you in checkmate, or sinking your battleship. Its just a game folks, and your getting all overly attached to your virtual possessions doesnt change that fact. And finially, CCP obviously intended EVE to be what it is for the most part, argue risk versus reward, argue balancing, but screaming and throwing a temper tantrum about how the 'gankers' pwnded your ship aint goona matter a whit to them. In the end, PVErs arent your loyal segment in a game like this, eventually youve run every mission 1000 times, done every scripted thing there is, they can get there fix of killing mobs anywhere. EQ2, WOW, any plethora of other MMOs. For open, consequential PVP however, EVE is IT. Theres really no other game in town, short of MUDS.
Gix Firebrand	Posted - 2006.12.10 03:37:00 - [45] LOL @ OP. Low sec is empty because it's risk doesn't match it's reward. Period. You think its not true? You obviously didn't play UO. People will risk all for great reward. People knew Deceit was a bad dungeon to go into. Knew there was a good chance to get killed and everything taken. Also a good chance to make some money and some loot. This is the typical not understanding why low sec should be profitable thread. Don't be afraid of low sec getting buffed. You won't have to go there, but the reward should match the risk. Nobody is trying to take your precious industry away from you :P
Stroke	Posted - 2006.12.10 07:51:00 - [46] Originally by: Curzon Dax Seriously, stop twisting views and pretending that you're a boon to the galaxy. You're pirates. Unlawful, despicable, robbing without sovereign, a plunderer. There's nothing noble in what you do, and those you want to pirate have far less defense than someone who PvPs. Which is why you're pansies. You're afraid of PvP unless your "opponent" is defenseless. So when real-world pirates sailed the seas in the days of old, they went strait after the British Navy ships because they would give them the most challenge? I could have sworn they attacked and plundered soft targets. At times, they did mix it up with the Navy, but only when they saw it in their favor or had few options. Take modern day pirates. They board and steal from merchant ships or small luxury liners/boats. They do not engage the US coast guard. Are you seeing the pattern? Even Sun Tzu's dirty socks understand warfare better than you.
shogun1 Gallente Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2006.12.10 08:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Curzon Dax Greetings, and this isn't your typical flame. Yeah it is. We have heard them time and time before. Originally by: Curzon Dax Pirates, you don't get it. CCP is a business. They're in the business to make profit. More players means more profit. Now ask and answer some questions for yourself. 1. Are there more hardcore PvPers in Eve, or more non hardcore PvPers? 2. Are there more lowsec griefers in Eve or people who don't want to be victimized? 3. If people want to PvP, is it available to them? 4. If people want to avoid PvP is the option available to them? 5. Are both play styles conducive to fun? At the end of the day, CCP will do what any company does and do their best to make as large of a customer base enjoy their product as possible. Making griefing easier doesn't gain more customers (you can't force people into lowsec). Making lowsec more profitable would draw very few people into lowsec. If lowsec had 10 million ISK bounty battleship rats that dropped faction loot, would lowsec be more populated? Doubt it. More players would try it, more pirates would hang in lowsec, and at the end of the day, you'll balance to what we have now. The griefers are in lowsec, the people who don't want to be taken advantage of aren't in lowsec. I like Empire, and I like 0.0. Nothing CCP does it going to bring me to lowsec, and most of us "carebears" feel that way. There's more of us than there are of you, and at the end of the day...a business model caters to the majority, not to the minority. You want to pirate in lowsec, find some other pirates and grief them. Like draws their own kind, ya know? Moved from General Discussion - Serathu ([email protected]) 1. more non-pvpers, but the scale is tipping. 2. People who cry when their "baby" gets a scratch. 3. if there is always people. 4. Yes it is. 5. ...sure, lets go with "yes". Your argument is fair, except for one small detail: people will go to great lengths to get more ISK. And where is the ISK? Low sectors! The greed outweighs the need for saftey. And we can STILL get to you in high sector, so how would it make a diffrence anyway? hablaaarg?
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 09:12:00 - [48] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 10/12/2006 09:12:02 Originally by: Curzon Dax Ok, ebil pirates read again. Apparently you missed the point. YOU CANNOT MAKE PEOPLE GO ANYWHERE. Regardless of how easy of victims you want. There are more people in highsec at any given time than there are in lowsec. And who the hell are you to speak for CCP? You say "CCP wanted highsec to be for new people to learn blah blah." Of course you can't FORCE people to go anywhere, thats entirely up to them..nobody ever said otherwise. The reason people go "CCP wanted this" and "CCP wanted that" is because CCP really said these things at one point or another. Originally by: Curzon Dax That's a complete load of it. If that were the case, they would have made a few 1.0 constellations that carried everything necessary to learn the game and after 30 days of playing, you would be locked out of them. Just like Everquest 2. Once you finish the noobie zone, you enter the real world and no more access to the noobie zone. Well isn't that cute. Here's some news for you though mr. loudmouth dimwit, THIS AINT EVERQUEST 2! SURPRISE! There are however, several systems that are designated "starter" systems, which are actually vastly different from regular 1.0 systems: 1. They have an ABUNDANCE of skills, ships, equipment etc..granted not necessarily T2 ships, but hey..by the time you wanna get a T2 ship, you SHOULD by all reason be out of the starter system. 2. CONCORD reacts INSTANTLY in these starter systems..believe me I KNOW first hand.. I went through several high sec systems in a mwd'ing interceptor even though I was flashy red (ie. -5.0 sec status) with no problem..even 1.0 ..Then I got to a starter system (also 1.0) and as SOON as I uncloaked, CONCORD appeared out of the thin air, had me locked instantly and killed me in less then 2 seconds. Originally by: Curzon Dax But they didn't did they? CCP supported a thriving high security galaxy which bustles with activity. What I'm saying is BUZZZZ Wrong again sport! -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 09:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. Let people play the way they want to. Works both ways buddy boy, us pirates want to play our way too..and that means killing and ransoming people and just having fun. Does that mean our victims should willingly submit to that?..Course not, but we shouldn't submit either. Originally by: Curzon Dax 2. Get off your high horses. Says the man preaching on a pedestal about what us pirates can and can't do, and what we can and can't say etc etc. Get over yourself numbnuts. Originally by: Curzon Dax 3. Stop pretending that you know CCP's thoughts and feelings and that See this is what I mean. Get over youself! Who's pretending though? CCP have more then once said this was a PvP game, and part of what makes this game so awesome, is that you MIGHT gain wealth and success. You also might lose EVERYTHING. Originally by: Curzon Dax 4. They cater to your individual wishes AGAINST the majority. Really now eh? Just what exactly did you base that statement on? Where's your figures? your data? your evidence!? Well? Thats what I thought. Originally by: Curzon Dax 5. Understand that lowsec is empty because YOU made it that way. Partially true..lowsec is empty because the risk (us pirates killing people who enter it) is a LOT bigger then the reward. If we stopped killing people in lowsec, the reward would be worth it..BUT! Seeing as thats not going to happen shrugs Just have to wait and see if that changes over time. Originally by: Curzon Dax 6. It will stay that way until you leave or carebears get to have bigger guns on their mining boats. We won't leave, and mining boats won't get bigger guns..you can't have your cake and eating it too. If you want to mine in lowsec, make sure you have an able bodied military force to protect you. Originally by: Curzon Dax 7. In life, easy money is rare. Very rare. You have to work for it. First of all this ain't real life...second of all, you're right, easy money IS rare..that is, if you don't know HOW to get easy money. Lots of people do..and they are FILTHY rich without too much effort. Originally by: Curzon Dax 8. Pirating is the same way. You want an easy victim? Its rare. Patience is a virtue...finding easy victims is just a matter of searching long enough. Originally by: Curzon Dax 9. Don't equate PvP with pirating. There will NEVER be a shortage of PvP. Stop being a knee-knocking pansy and go get it. Here's another little surprise for you dimwit; PvP = Player versus Player..now unless you industrialists/carebears, aren't players..you get my point. It don't matter if what you're shooting at can't fight back..it is still ONE PLAYER, versus ANOTHER PLAYER, thus Player Versus Player, pvp..get it?? Originally by: Curzon Dax 10. Being the victim of pirating is NOT PvP. Don't even BEGIN to think that mission runners and miners who don't want to get ganked don't like PvP. BUZZZ WRONG AGAIN! It IS PvP, whether you like it or not Originally by: Curzon Dax Seriously, stop twisting views and pretending that you're a boon to the galaxy. You're pirates. Unlawful, despicable, robbing without sovereign, a plunderer. There's nothing noble in what you do, and those you want to pirate have far less defense than someone who PvPs. Which is why you're pansies. You're afraid of PvP unless your "opponent" is defenseless. Thank you for the compliment about being unlawful, despicable and all that other jazz blushes you're too kind! Of course it's not noble...I don't pirate to be noble, quite on the contrary, and I don't really care if the person I kill is less capable at fighting then I am..It's not something I think about. I kill/ransom people because I want to...whether it's a mining barge, or it's a command ship. Now, do you want to possibly use your BRAIN next time before you post? Please do..if you know how. -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Felix Dzerzhinsky	Posted - 2006.12.10 10:11:00 - [50] I never understoood people who actually enjoy mission running in EvE. EvE has, nearly the worst, most boring, most mind-numbing PvE system in the world. . .I mean "woot, I got PI - finally a challange" just does not cut it. . . As much as I hate wow, that is a PvE game. If people want to turn 0.0 into a 'battlefield' style game, then please, go play the game that is right for you - its not eve.

Famine Aligher'ri V i L e	Posted - 2006.12.10 10:23:00 - [51] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 10/12/2006 10:22:59 Originally by: Originally by: Curzon Dax 10. Being the victim of pirating is NOT PvP. Don't even BEGIN to think that mission runners and miners who don't want to get ganked don't like PvP. Originally by: Cadela Fria BUZZZ WRONG AGAIN! It IS PvP, whether you like it or not It's really not hard to understand his logic. Sure it's player vs player. It's not what they call "real pvp". Why? Well, what they call "real pvp" is sort of like being a soldier in a army(corp/faction). You fight for a cause and you do it for the combat. Piracy we do it for the ISK. They might have honor but rarely do we. Piracy isn't about that style of pvp but instead a vile style of pvp. Engaging people who do not want to be engage yet they engage people who want to be engaged. 2 different worlds of pvp really. Simple logic eh? It's a matter of opinion too but really I don't consider what I do real pvp. I consider it pay. Vile - Recruiting Pirates
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 10/12/2006 10:22:59 Originally by: Originally by: Curzon Dax 10. Being the victim of pirating is NOT PvP. Don't even BEGIN to think that mission runners and miners who don't want to get ganked don't like PvP. Originally by: Cadela Fria BUZZZ WRONG AGAIN! It IS PvP, whether you like it or not It's really not hard to understand his logic. Sure it's player vs player. It's not what they call "real pvp". Why? Well, what they call "real pvp" is sort of like being a soldier in a army(corp/faction). You fight for a cause and you do it for the combat. Piracy we do it for the ISK. They might have honor but rarely do we. Piracy isn't about that style of pvp but instead a vile style of pvp. Engaging people who do not want to be engage yet they engage people who want to be engaged. 2 different worlds of pvp really. Simple logic eh? It's a matter of opinion too but really I don't consider what I do real pvp. I consider it pay. "real pvp" is a concept thats in the eye of the beholder and can be debated from one end of the universe to the other. Sure enough as you say, there's a difference...but it's like I said, a matter of debate/opinion. -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Kehmor Caldari PAK Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:43:00 - [53] Edited by: Kehmor on 10/12/2006 21:43:59 Haven't read all the thread so apologies if this has been said but in actuality I don't think the op gets it. How do ccp find out what their players want? Well they don't guess, they read the forums. So if CCP read the forums and see wide spread complaints about piracy being gimped then maybe they will change it. So even by your line of arguement whining is 100% worth it for us.
Mikojo Dark Entropy iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:42:00 - [54] Eve would be a scary, SCARYplace if it was all carebears. I have almost daily meetings with carebears and a good majority of them are some of the nastiest and most immature people that I have ever spoken too, in and out of eve. I do a bit of orethieving and high sec piracy to make money and I do it nicely and politely. It's one of the things I enjoy in this game, but they take it as a personal attack and go completely psycho most of the time and do some really nasty things. To one of my friends they have gone to the point of where he petitioned them and I'm quite sure they were banned.
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Mikojo Eve would be a scary, SCARYplace if it was all carebears. I have almost daily meetings with carebears and a good majority of them are some of the nastiest and most immature people that I have ever spoken too, in and out of eve. I do a bit of orethieving and high sec piracy to make money and I do it nicely and politely. It's one of the things I enjoy in this game, but they take it as a personal attack and go completely psycho most of the time and do some really nasty things. To one of my friends they have gone to the point of where he petitioned them and I'm quite sure they were banned. Amen. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Devian 666 SHADOW FLEET iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:57:00 - [56] I agree a lot of the carebears are vile people that deserve to have their ship popped, podded, ore stolen/flipped and popped. They are the type of people that ruin the game for other people with their sociopathic behaviour. Cool an orange sig
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.12 01:07:00 - [57] Tapdances in from the left, sporting a tall hat and a cane tap tap tappedee tap tap tap tap then tap dances out to the right, raising hat on way out -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Devian 666 SHADOW FLEET iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.12 02:18:00 - [58] Originally by: shogun1 Originally by: Devian 666 I agree a lot of the carebears are vile people that deserve to have their ship popped, podded, ore stolen/flipped and popped. They are the type of people that ruin the game for other people with their sociopathic behaviour. Oh the irony! Check out the title of this thread "Pirates don't get it". It should be correctly titled carebears don't get it. They are rude to and abuse pirates, but hang on where does the market demand for minerals, modules and ships come from? They should be overjoyed that their ship, pod or jet can have been selected for destruction and thank pirates. It's rather hypocritical to consider that once pvpers move from low sec to 0.0 they change from pirates, anti pirates, etc. to friendlies and hostiles. It's all semantics. Cool an orange sig
grizzlemethis Epiphyte Mining and Exploration	Posted - 2006.12.12 04:30:00 - [59] All roads lead to PvP in the end TBH. There are exceptions but its the rule
El Verbatim	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:16:00 - [60] Edited by: El Verbatim on 12/12/2006 12:16:47 Imho, empire is the place where all the griefers are cause they won't let me play the game how I want. I'm trying to sell my tritanium for 100 isk/unit cause I can't make much money otherwise but all these griefers keep undercutting my price and nobody is buying my trit. How am I ever going to make money this way? They're completely blocking my income and I can't do anything else then boring mining, mining mining for hours for a few isk only. THIS IS NOT FAIR! BAN THEM!!!! /sarcasm off

Sammy Xan Caldari Order of the Storm	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:29:00 - [61] Originally by: Miss Overlord time for a carebear server where no one can touch em and they can PVE to their hears content and a PVP server where everything is free nothing in the PVE field but endless PVP for all. Lets just do away with the idea of an intergrated universe Mmmkay, I take it that "Trammel" and Fellucca" doesn't ring any bells grasshopper ?
Neal Cassady Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:39:00 - [62] you guys are too much... pirates have the hardest life in eve. We can get blown up anywhere. We can't go to rens or jita to get mods, unless we have an alt. We have to take a big risk every time we want to make money. People rarely pay ransoms. And on top of this we have to listen to whiny little wusses like you talk about what low-lifes we are and how we dont play the game right. I joined eve so I could pirate (hear that, CCP?) and im sick of you sallies saying that the game should be more the way you want it because there are more of you. Maybe there are more of you because pirating takes skill, grit, and finesse, and you all just suck at it so you have to kill npc's who can barely fight back. Our life is hard, but it's fun. It keeps you on your toes. If you dont want to pvp, stay in high sec. If you want to learn how to pvp, start with a rifter or kestrel, that way when it pops (which it will) you wont be broke. If you're a whiny little girl who lost her raven with faction mods and wants to cry about it, go play Hello Kitty: Island Adventure. Neal Cassady
MirandasRight	Posted - 2006.12.12 17:11:00 - [63] Originally by: Neal Cassady you guys are too much... pirates have the hardest life in eve. We can get blown up anywhere. We can't go to rens or jita to get mods, unless we have an alt. We have to take a big risk every time we want to make money. People rarely pay ransoms. And on top of this we have to listen to whiny little wusses like you talk about what low-lifes we are and how we dont play the game right. I joined eve so I could pirate (hear that, CCP?) and im sick of you sallies saying that the game should be more the way you want it because there are more of you. Maybe there are more of you because pirating takes skill, grit, and finesse, and you all just suck at it so you have to kill npc's who can barely fight back. Our life is hard, but it's fun. It keeps you on your toes. If you dont want to pvp, stay in high sec. If you want to learn how to pvp, start with a rifter or kestrel, that way when it pops (which it will) you wont be broke. If you're a whiny little girl who lost her raven with faction mods and wants to cry about it, go play Hello Kitty: Island Adventure. Neal Cassady You're too funny. Pirating "takes skill". LOL. Yeah, lots of skill to swoop in on those unfortunate barge miners and try to scramble them. Then act all tough asking for ransom. Oooohh, how skillful. And then when those "carebears" make a stand you run like a scared rabbit. Love your WT0 skill dude. Run little piwat! Run!
Neal Cassady Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.12 17:20:00 - [64] the carebears always make a stand unless they have a wcs fitted... they dont always shoot though. Sometimes they dont even get their drones out.
MirandasRight	Posted - 2006.12.12 17:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Neal Cassady the carebears always make a stand unless they have a wcs fitted... they dont always shoot though. Sometimes they dont even get their drones out. Stay and fight next time. You and Raven. Prove to the "carebears" that you have true fighting (aka "pvp") skills. Only thing that I have seen...about most pies, are "they're not fighting fairly" and they run or stay docked. Cowards.
Kcissem Dahc	Posted - 2006.12.12 17:27:00 - [66] Originally by: MirandasRight Originally by: Neal Cassady you guys are too much... pirates have the hardest life in eve. We can get blown up anywhere. We can't go to rens or jita to get mods, unless we have an alt. We have to take a big risk every time we want to make money. People rarely pay ransoms. And on top of this we have to listen to whiny little wusses like you talk about what low-lifes we are and how we dont play the game right. I joined eve so I could pirate (hear that, CCP?) and im sick of you sallies saying that the game should be more the way you want it because there are more of you. Maybe there are more of you because pirating takes skill, grit, and finesse, and you all just suck at it so you have to kill npc's who can barely fight back. Our life is hard, but it's fun. It keeps you on your toes. If you dont want to pvp, stay in high sec. If you want to learn how to pvp, start with a rifter or kestrel, that way when it pops (which it will) you wont be broke. If you're a whiny little girl who lost her raven with faction mods and wants to cry about it, go play Hello Kitty: Island Adventure. Neal Cassady You're too funny. Pirating "takes skill". LOL. Yeah, lots of skill to swoop in on those unfortunate barge miners and try to scramble them. Then act all tough asking for ransom. Oooohh, how skillful. And then when those "carebears" make a stand you run like a scared rabbit. Love your WT0 skill dude. Run little piwat! Run! Now as a new rookie/wannabe pirate i agree that attacking barges and other undefended ships do not take much skill, but that is what pirating is, why fight a fair fight when you can win an unfair one? seems to be pirating economics 101 to me. I can't say for anyone else but for me when "carebears" as you put it take stand the reason i run is cuz i have to be in control of the targets I pick not anyone else. Besides when they stand up it's usually very uneven odds and would be a lose lose situation for the pirate. 10 vs 1 anti pirating does not take skill either. The real skill to me is avoiding the revenge of those stand up "carebears" in the big blob that just jumped into the sytem, now thats my thrill. just my 2 cents. 2 kills and counting. /logoff
Neal Cassady Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.12 17:48:00 - [67] Originally by: MirandasRight Originally by: Neal Cassady the carebears always make a stand unless they have a wcs fitted... they dont always shoot though. Sometimes they dont even get their drones out. Stay and fight next time. You and Raven. Prove to the "carebears" that you have true fighting (aka "pvp") skills. Only thing that I have seen...about most pies, are "they're not fighting fairly" and they run or stay docked. Cowards. Ahh I remember you now. Sorry, but sometimes all the smacktalkers tend to blur together. Didn't realize this was personal. Better keep a sharp eye on your miners in that little dead end system because Raven and I will definitely be back. Perhaps with friends who also have an appetite for mining barges :)
Valerek Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.12 18:05:00 - [68] Quote: 10 vs 1 anti pirating does not take skill either. The real skill to me is avoiding the revenge of those stand up "carebears" in the big blob that just jumped into the sytem, now thats my thrill. just my 2 cents. 2 kills and counting. /logoff Just see your fellow pie's remarks. He'll be back with his bunk buddies. Oh goodie...a piwat blob. How macho and exciting. Its hilarious to see you guys get all worked up about a "carebear" blob. Geee...isn't t the SAME TACTIC that you guys use against mission runners, lone barges, etc? Ummm...come to think of it no, it isn't. When you guys come in blobs, you attack players that CAN'T defend themselves. Silly me... Kettle, meet pot. Guess you piwats don't like a taste of your own meds. Too f'n bad.
Kcissem Dahc	Posted - 2006.12.12 18:11:00 - [69] Originally by: Valerek Quote: 10 vs 1 anti pirating does not take skill either. The real skill to me is avoiding the revenge of those stand up "carebears" in the big blob that just jumped into the sytem, now thats my thrill. just my 2 cents. 2 kills and counting. /logoff Just see your fellow pie's remarks. He'll be back with his bunk buddies. Oh goodie...a piwat blob. How macho and exciting. Its hilarious to see you guys get all worked up about a "carebear" blob. Geee...isn't t the SAME TACTIC that you guys use against mission runners, lone barges, etc? Ummm...come to think of it no, it isn't. When you guys come in blobs, you attack players that CAN'T defend themselves. Silly me... Kettle, meet pot. Guess you piwats don't like a taste of your own meds. Too f'n bad. My remarks was based off of solo pirating, which is all i've done as of yet. Solo pirating and gang pirating are two different things and require different tactics or evasion techniques. In a gang i would be more inclined to stay and fight depending on the situation of course. only my opinion though
Borg Fusion The Lost Souls	Posted - 2006.12.12 18:20:00 - [70] I don't think that matters, anyone can call themselves pirates these days in EvE. Corpse Collection

RavenofAzerath Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:18:00 - [71] Pirating is a part of eve, so is low sec. If you have a problem of people taking advantage of your stupidity dont go in low sec. Simple solution to a simple problem. Lets face it i'd rather make easy money off an idiot in a mining barge then to have to fight a bc for it, thats just how business works. But dont get me wrong when it comes down to the fight i'l be sure to give it my all and regardless of who comes out on top, gf & gg, win or lose. Eve is only a game, and pirating is a part of it. Its time you learnt that. --------------------------- I'm not a pirate. Yarr! If in doubt spam ECM
MirandasRight	Posted - 2006.12.12 21:33:00 - [72] I have no problem whatsoever with TRUE pirates that will actually put up a fight even if solo. Blobs (whether small or large) that run are hilarious. And accusations of smack talk. Funnier still. Giving it your all? Yeah...you gave it your all ...full speed WT0.
RavenofAzerath Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.12 23:00:00 - [73] True pirate? If a 'true' pirate is someone who jumps into masses of hostiles just to give a good show then i'd rather stay as i am (Unless i'm flying a t1 non-named frig/cruiser then what the hell :D). Pirating is just another business like in the rl, were people who money out of other peoples hard work. Eve has a sence of reality in it: you can do whatever you want but everything has a consequence, the consequence for pirates is that were banned from highsec and are the subject of flaming/whining/generally irritating posts like this. Hell, i was an ex-miner before i went rogue and i can tell you i used to think exactly the same about pirates being cowardly and stuff, theres more to it then you carebears realise and it takes alot of patience waiting for you to come back to your jetcan after we scared you off in the first place. All i'm trying to say is, sure we may take advantage of people and we may be run sometimes but i'd sooner run then loose my ship fittings and you clearly think the same, otherwise you wouldent run from us when we jump you in a belt or mission would you? --------------------------- I'm not a pirate. Yarr! If in doubt spam ECM
Devian 666 SHADOW FLEET iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 00:07:00 - [74] This is the one thing I don't get. I don't understand why people go around saying pirates are bad people and so on. When I first started I joined a mining corp to raise some isk. As a part of that I moved into a 0.4 system. I had great joy with nubs sniping at my hauler, inties or afs scramming me while mining. While I got rather grumpy on occassions and wanted to get some revenge I didn't go abusing people and do ridiculous smacktalk. Well except for one occassion. One of the nubs guys had entered local in a hac so I explained to him that he needed to pay a 500m ransom (yes my first ransom and I was still docked) . One of my former corp mates was passing through local and suggested that it was probably a bit steep so I lowered it to 400m. I fitted out a junk frig like an imicus with some electron blasters and went out looking for him. I scrammed him and started shooting. After about a minute or so I had him down to 90% shield (yes shield lol). At that point I told him that he could still surrender. Guess how long before my ship popped. The thing is I didn't fear being attacked or shot down and I knew I had to avoid combat ships, I also was well aware that heading into low sec was a significant risk but I accepted that. I have my own list of questions. Why do carebears insist on immunity from all pvp when they start taking risks? Why do they insist on not learning how to avoid combat? Why do they not bother scouting before jumping? Why are there so many players that avoid working with other people? Why do people want to make large amounts of isk and never use it for anything in the game? Why do they train lots of skills thinking that those skills will make them awesome at pvp? Why do carebears move into 0.0 with no intention of fighting for their region? Cool an orange sig
Smog890	Posted - 2006.12.13 03:54:00 - [75] well this post makes no sense you should already know that
MirandasRight	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:30:00 - [76] Edited by: MirandasRight on 13/12/2006 20:35:41 Us "carebears". I love how that title is thrown into the discussions. Carebears... Whatever. Yes, we run when we're in FRIGGIN BARGES. What kind of challengs is that for you? What SKILL does it take? None. That's my point. Why don't you try tackling peeps that can defend theselves to a certain degree. A career that takes no skill. LOL. Good one. And another thing, I like the smacktalk when you run away saying things like "Get protection from a buddy next time. Yadda yadda." If there was protection would you stick around for the challenge...? nahh...
Kcissem Dahc	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:55:00 - [77] Originally by: MirandasRight Edited by: MirandasRight on 13/12/2006 20:35:41 Us "carebears". I love how that title is thrown into the discussions. Carebears... Whatever. Yes, we run when we're in FRIGGIN BARGES. What kind of challengs is that for you? What SKILL does it take? None. That's my point. Why don't you try tackling peeps that can defend theselves to a certain degree. A career that takes no skill. LOL. Good one. And another thing, I like the smacktalk when you run away saying things like "Get protection from a buddy next time. Yadda yadda." If there was protection would you stick around for the challenge...? nahh... people just don't understand, like you for example. Pirating is not about taking on people who can defend themselves. Pirating is about making profit from raiding/killing anything we can handle EASILY either for ransom or the off chance something valuable drops for loot. if that means it's a unfair fight against a barge and a hauler than so be it. if they are stupid enough to be in low sec without someone watching their back then it's not the pirates fault but the "carebears" fault for not using their brain. I just don't understand why people expect to fly solo around low sec mining or trading whatever and expect there to be no risks involved. The way i see it if you don't like being ransomed/killed/or podded either stay in high sec where it's relatively safe or go play Toontown Online with the kiddies and be bugs bunny or daffy duck. /rant off........3 kills and counting /logoff
rat master	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:04:00 - [78] Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: shogun1 Originally by: Devian 666 I agree a lot of the carebears are vile people that deserve to have their ship popped, podded, ore stolen/flipped and popped. They are the type of people that ruin the game for other people with their sociopathic behaviour. Oh the irony! Check out the title of this thread "Pirates don't get it". It should be correctly titled carebears don't get it. They are rude to and abuse pirates, but hang on where does the market demand for minerals, modules and ships come from? They should be overjoyed that their ship, pod or jet can have been selected for destruction and thank pirates. It's rather hypocritical to consider that once pvpers move from low sec to 0.0 they change from pirates, anti pirates, etc. to friendlies and hostiles. It's all semantics. Thats what Im reffering to. "oh they are griefers!" they yell in despair....and yet we get insulted more than they do! Or insulted at all, for that matter.....
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:19:00 - [79] EvE is all about PvP. Whether you're in the market, or on the battlefield, or in production, you are competing against other players. Allowing people to do whatever they want in eve without facing unwanted competition would ruin eve. There are tons of games that support PvE much better than eve does, but there are none that support PvP in all its forms as well as EVE. If CCP makes EVE just like the other games by strictly limiting PvP then they will lose their niche and there will be nothing to prevent players from going to other games which have much more developed forms of PvE. Shamis
Soporo	Posted - 2006.12.13 23:45:00 - [80] Edited by: Soporo on 13/12/2006 23:46:46 I'm going to make a wild guess and say that most people, possibly the vast majority, dont care about PvP being prevalent; but the contention is all about the matter of degree. Everything is subjective, and this is no different. Some people want 0.0 EVERYWHERE.(shortsighted) Some want more sa***uards EVERYWHERE.(shortsighted) edit: wtf s a f e g u a r d s is banned!? A lot of people fall somewhere between these views, and as in RL, the extremes seem to be the most noisy. I reckon I am somewhere in the middle, and the longer I play EVE I find myself gravitating more to the "right".

Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 02:49:00 - [81] Originally by: MirandasRight Edited by: MirandasRight on 13/12/2006 20:35:41 Us "carebears". I love how that title is thrown into the discussions. Carebears... Whatever. Yes, we run when we're in FRIGGIN BARGES. What kind of challengs is that for you? What SKILL does it take? None. That's my point. Why don't you try tackling peeps that can defend theselves to a certain degree. A career that takes no skill. LOL. Good one. And another thing, I like the smacktalk when you run away saying things like "Get protection from a buddy next time. Yadda yadda." If there was protection would you stick around for the challenge...? nahh... It's simple..we don't care what you're in..it doesn't matter. If we can kill it/ransom it..we will. Thats it.....seriously..thats all there is to it...no spooky motives or choices going on in the background. -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Tappad Bakomenvagn	Posted - 2006.12.14 14:56:00 - [82] Pirates who ransom and so on I have no problem with, actually I respect them if they follow a code and let you go once you pay the ransom. Gatetards who gang up 10:1 killing whatever ship tries to use the gate are another thing, and those aren't IMO pirates I don't think anyone should mix them with real pirates who go Yaarr. Anyway, I agree mainly with the OP, CCP really shouldn't/couldn't move the PvE players favourite aspects of game to low sec. forcing PvE-players to become Ganktards content. They should tweak lo/no sec making it even more interesting to visit, not nerfing the options for us safespace-carebears. I think a lot of players would just stop playing if they removed the Carebear aspects of game, sure some would probably adapt but most would probably leave, I know I would leave and I know most of my RL friends playing eve would too. People play to have fun, if game change so much that you don't have fun anymore you'll simply leave or should for your own sanity. I don't think one group of player should look down on another group because they don't fancy the same content as the other. I have played some MMORPGS and in none of them I have enjoyed PvP, not because I am afraid to lose Money/loot/Exp. I just don't think it's funny. "Our profile says you're trying to con the street into killing you when you're not looking."
Hakiro Murasame Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.14 17:30:00 - [83] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz EvE is all about PvP. Whether you're in the market, or on the battlefield, or in production, you are competing against other players. ... Agreed. EvE stands for Everyone vs Everyone, after all. Ganj is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Kehmor Caldari PAK Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.14 17:44:00 - [84] Originally by: MirandasRight I have no problem whatsoever with TRUE pirates that will actually put up a fight even if solo. Blobs (whether small or large) that run are hilarious. And accusations of smack talk. Funnier still. Giving it your all? Yeah...you gave it your all ...full speed WT0. you do of course realise that the changes that carebears have demanded provoked pirate blobbing. Back when there were no sentry guns or flagging there were also fewer pirate blobs as it was more profitable to work solo or in a small group. So you adapt the game, and we will adapt to survive.
Kye Kenshin Black Takeda	Posted - 2006.12.14 18:45:00 - [85] I've been playing this game nearly two years now and I see the same doom preaching threads every month or so. Yet the playerbase continues to rise. Now explain me this. If pirates and pvpers are "griefing" carebears out of the game how come we haven't lost subscribers steadily since the game launched? I bet you can't answer that one.
Kelbryn Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:33:00 - [86] CCP said it themselves "EVE is a PvP Game!"
Cheng Kung Amarr Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:33:00 - [87] to the op: If you like mmorpg's but don't like pvp and evil pirates like us, perhaps this is the game for you: Disney's Toontown Online
Aypse Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:36:00 - [88] Originally by: Cheng Kung to the op: If you like mmorpg's but don't like pvp and evil pirates like us, perhaps this is the game for you: Disney's Toontown Online QFT, oh and read my sig. Originally by: Oveur Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
Tappad Bakomenvagn	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:05:00 - [89] Originally by: Kelbryn CCP said it themselves "EVE is a PvP Game!" Yep, who said it isn't? PvP is just not all about easy target ganking. -T "Our profile says you're trying to con the street into killing you when you're not looking."
David H'Levi Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:11:00 - [90] Why am I responsible for CCP's success or failure as a business? If they want to change the game to stop pirating, that's their responsibility, not mine. We Recruit!

Galan Amarias	Posted - 2006.12.16 05:05:00 - [91] heya guys, I couldn't help but notice the OP got quiet after a while, mabey he couldn't find the thread after it ran from gerneral into "forrums low sec" in crime and P. Anyway I feel he's been suficiently shot to bits on most of that pompus drivle. Still there were a few itty bitty little things that I feel went unresolved. The use of the phrases PVP and Griefing were execrable (really amazingly aweful). To this effect I'm gonna go make a new post about defining our terms. If we all get behind it mabey we can have a sticky and quote it and laugh when they still insist that flying into .4 with your brand new HAC heck bent on pwning noob pies and geting wasted instead was some form of being griefed :P -Galan, still anti-pie but some days....
Gothikia Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:32:00 - [92] Originally by: Mary Wan I doubt many people play EVE with the sole intention of hardcore mining cough EOG.... COUGH _________________________ Originally by: L'Ron Hubbard only the power of Xenu can fix EVE!
Redbad Minmatar Gingerbread Reapers Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:42:00 - [93] Originally by: Galan Amarias heya guys, I couldn't help but notice the OP got quiet after a while, mabey he couldn't find the thread after it ran from gerneral into "forrums low sec" in crime and P. Anyway I feel he's been suficiently shot to bits on most of that pompus drivle. Still there were a few itty bitty little things that I feel went unresolved. The use of the phrases PVP and Griefing were execrable (really amazingly aweful). To this effect I'm gonna go make a new post about defining our terms. If we all get behind it mabey we can have a sticky and quote it and laugh when they still insist that flying into .4 with your brand new HAC heck bent on pwning noob pies and geting wasted instead was some form of being griefed :P -Galan, still anti-pie but some days.... Nope, he was busy writing after this about he thought he was a pirate ... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=444404


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