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xKillaH
Minmatar
Cruor Frater
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.12.11 12:41:00 -
[1]
Hey there.
I was told that Nosferatu was going to get nerfed. Ships like Rokh and Domi are the uber nos ships. Nos are probably being nerfed because of theese two ships. I was just wondering if they get nerfed what will CCP decrease?
It must be the drain ammount.
Instead of decreasing drain ammount then CCP should consider having it like the damage mods.
After 3 damage mods you're bonus you get from the next damage mod you fit will decrease.
For Nosferatu it'll be after 2-3 nos (dunno how many) the drain ammount will decrease.
Discuss
For A Extra Christmas sig click Here (too big for the forums) |
slothe
Caldari
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.11 12:44:00 -
[2]
Tbh nosferatu has been discussed to death recently.
Any nerf is just speculation but may (or may not) happen.
No-one knows basically so this is a speculation thread rather than discussion.
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.11 12:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dixon on 11/12/2006 12:46:56
I'd actually prefer to see an effective counter-module and a stacking penalty. And if they introduce a counter-mod they should make it Amarr-friendly (low cpu usage).
- - - - - -
 Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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velocoraptor
Art of War
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.11 12:53:00 -
[4]
I used to use some nos on nos-orientated ships (aka Domi ). Now, after Kali it's rly the i-win button and I admit I use it as much as possible.
Still, yeah, it possibly needs a nerf. However I'm afraid that as usually in this game, the devs are going to hit it hard and make it UNDER-powededededereredered.
Probably the best nerf to Nos would be a 'sig-radius penalty' sort of thing and maybe a counter measure, too.
Kali IS the goddess of destruction after all |
Fodderrr
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Posted - 2006.12.11 13:49:00 -
[5]
If enough whiners complained about nos it will get changed. Many of my setups dont involve nos but if it did get a sig penalty like a previous poster mentioned then players simply wouldnt use it for solo activity a rocket/assault missile launcher would be a better alternative so effectively nerfing the mod to uselessness.
Just seems to me the only players really complaining are those in their neutron taranises ripping through ships that dont like people with any sort of counter to their insane dps.
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Diehard Si
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:01:00 -
[6]
I'm a NOS user, but i'd prefer combat to be more about actually shooting things than just sucking the energy out of them..
maybe i'm just old fashioned though
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Lets face it, people that use the word 'noob' are blatantly either 12 or with more friends on the internet than in real life! |
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:10:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Fodderrr
If enough whiners complained about nos it will get changed. Many of my setups dont involve nos but if it did get a sig penalty like a previous poster mentioned then players simply wouldnt use it for solo activity a rocket/assault missile launcher would be a better alternative so effectively nerfing the mod to uselessness.
Just seems to me the only players really complaining are those in their neutron taranises ripping through ships that dont like people with any sort of counter to their insane dps.
Nos doesn't need to be nerfed to uselessness. It does need a nerf however and a proper counter.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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The Anointed
Caldari
StarBug Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:26:00 -
[8]
I always thought some sort of module you fit that will either decrease the drain amount by a certain % for anyone trying to nos you, would be good.
Or what about once a ship has, lets say less than 30% cap, the nos will no longer take anything, and you would have to use a neut if you wanted to get rtid of any more cap.
There are workarounds for people crying for it to be nerfed, i think the main problem is where you get large nos being able to suck dry smaller ships too quickly.
How about the nos amount being directly linked to signature radius of the ship your trying to nos? That way it falls inline with other offensive weapons like missiles and turrets.
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slothe
Caldari
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fodderrr
If enough whiners complained about nos it will get changed. Many of my setups dont involve nos but if it did get a sig penalty like a previous poster mentioned then players simply wouldnt use it for solo activity a rocket/assault missile launcher would be a better alternative so effectively nerfing the mod to uselessness.
Just seems to me the only players really complaining are those in their neutron taranises ripping through ships that dont like people with any sort of counter to their insane dps.
dude your post is extremely biased and therefore pretty useless.
i have flown ships that used nos in the past all of the time. i prob flew nos domis before people had heard of the idea. i tend not to overuse them now i.e. fill my high slots full, as they can be an i-win button , like ecm used to be.
i think personally they are overpowered if stacked like that.
therefore a stacking penalty could work to heavily nerf people that use over 3. that could work.
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 11/12/2006 14:38:45
@ OP: There have been a lot of rumors going on for the last several months. At this point, no solid idea has been introduced as to how such a nerf would work. Anything that is said is speculation at this point.
Originally by: slothe
therefore a stacking penalty could work to heavily nerf people that use over 3. that could work.
That is the one I'm rooting for. It would allow ships like the Tempest and Raven to still fit their 2 NOS effectively, yet it would allow ships that CAN fit more to do so... yet not beyond reason.
Sig radius penalty might also be interesting.
I am against a "counter" - it will become just one more must-have module on an already crowded list of things one "must" have. Besides, a "counter" already sort of exists (cap boosters?  )
Originally by: Fodderrr
Just seems to me the only players really complaining are those in their neutron taranises ripping through ships that dont like people with any sort of counter to their insane dps.
There are tons of players that don't like nos... pretty much any ship that mounts guns that use cap at a high rate... or anyone who has to actively tank. Hurts like hell for people who have to actively tank and require tons of cap to do damage. 
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Tiger Tamer
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:03:00 -
[11]
My favorite idea so far:
Give standard T1 nos a power cost equal to the power drain.
The energy emission systems skill already lowers this cost, so it would actually become useful for NOS users as more than just a prerequisite. (The skill currently has no effect on the module itself.)
The function of NOS as a cap drain would not be affected!
Named and / or T2 could function at a higher efficiency making them the preferred modules.
NOS would finally have SOME drawback. For example: using a NOS that drains 100 cap, with level 3 in Emergy Emission Systems would cost 85 cap on activation, resulting in a cap gain of 15 for the user if the target has 100 cap to drain. Smaller ships would still be affected fully by the NOS drain, however this could result in a power LOSS for the user.
Turning on a full rack of NOS and waiting for the enemy before you to keel over dead will eventually become dangerous as their cap taps out and you start losing power on your cap modules (though you COULD still have the option to keep using them to keep them out of capacitor if you have the cap to spare).
This would overall kill NOS as an I-win button but still leave it viable as a cap draining module, and a defense against smaller ships, without too much fuss...
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Jin Freaks
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:06:00 -
[12]
It took CCP years to make it any good and maybe it's to good now maybe it's not. It's still not good enough as those "instant no more ability to lock someone" mods. EW sucks but it's part of the game
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tiger Tamer
My favorite idea so far:
Give standard T1 nos a power cost equal to the power drain.
What would be the point of Neuts then?
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:12:00 -
[14]
Decrease the drained/neutralized amount by 50%, increase curse/pilgrim/bhaalgorn/cruor/ashimmu nos bonuses by 50%.
It's great being Amarr, aint it? |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Tiger Tamer
My favorite idea so far:
Give standard T1 nos a power cost equal to the power drain.
What would be the point of Neuts then?
Same as normal, just harder to use
proposal.
CAP removed =1
CAP retruned =1
CAP Cost =1
So with 0 skills running a NOS takes 0 capacitor, with level 1 in energy emmission systems the CAP cost would be reduced by 5% and you would get .05 back.
It would remove the power of NOS to power your own tank
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Tiger Tamer
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Tiger Tamer
My favorite idea so far:
Give standard T1 nos a power cost equal to the power drain.
What would be the point of Neuts then?
Come on now, at least read the rest of my post
NOS would still result in a cap gain, due to the Energy Emission Systems skill, provided the target had the cap to drain. Nuets would just be a stronger power drain (and a respective higher activation cost), which is all they are meant to be right?
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:22:00 -
[17]
My favorite Nos nerf is to make the last 30% (or thereabouts) of the target ship's cap and any battery cap supplement untouchable by Nos. This would have to come with buffing the cap batteries somewhat.
... |
Exogene
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:31:00 -
[18]
Fitting Nos should be like fitting EW. Just like Caldari is specialized in using EW, Amarr (since they already have REAL nos ships such as curse/pilgrim, and the faction ships such as bhaalgorn) should be specialized in NOS and Neutralizers.
As for effectiveness of NOS, there have been many suggestion best of which i think was the one suggesting that NOS should fully drain the amount of same class ships but less for smaller class ships. That is, a Heavy NOS on a battleship would drain another BS for the full amount but less from a Battlecruiser, even less from a cruiser, even less then that from a destroyer and the least from a frigate.
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Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:38:00 -
[19]
While we're just throwing Nerf idea's out there without any consequences...
 If your cap is full, you can't suck more from the other ship (because you've nowhere to put the energy).
It takes a high slot, why not require tracking?
Make it an area-effect weapon (like a smartbomb)?
And while we're on the topic...
NOS drones (have just about every other kind out there)?
NOS batteries on POS's
Overcharge (opposite of NOS, floods target ship w/ your cap energy and blows a function of their ship (kills targeting/tracking ability for 20 seconds, or offlines a gun for 10 seconds... whatever).
LM
Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:57:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 11/12/2006 16:02:05
Originally by: Latex Mistress
It takes a high slot, why not require tracking?
Ooooh, can we give missiles tracking then?
Quote:
Make it an area-effect weapon (like a smartbomb)?
How would that even work?
Quote:
And while we're on the topic...
NOS drones (have just about every other kind out there)?
I believe this already exists... energy neutralizer drones.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
DiuxDium
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:14:00 -
[21]
NOS is fine, and keeps the game from just becoming "Orbit at Optimal, Fire till dead" you actually need to consider what range you come into with NOS. Please don't gimp something that adds an element of danger to PvP. Not like everyone can't use NOS.
Timeout! Party time. |
Insidi Us
Amarr
The Imperial Commonwealth
The Sundering
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:25:00 -
[22]
Well I would hope that ships that rely on NOS to survive, like the Pilgrim, would still be viable. If the last 30% remains, that's enough to power a tank to hold off the 5 medium drones a pilgrim will be using against you.
Unless you make it so that energy neuts can take off that remaining 30%, and the NOS will keep it down. So basically a NOS couldn't bring you below 30%, but it could KEEP you below 30%.
With the higher requirements of the neut this could be a balancing factor. I'm just tired of the setup I keep training for gets nerfed 25 days before my 200 day training plan is over :(
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Elaron
Minmatar
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:30:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
NOS drones (have just about every other kind out there)?
Neutraliser drones good enough?
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:46:00 -
[24]
Making nos only take upto 70% of the targets cap isnt enough.
How much of anything can anyone do with 30% cap left, and why does the nos only stop there?
I dont like that idea, and seeing how precisous cap is, just reduce the nos amount!
Stealing cap through the hull, armor and shield of a cap is already pretty ridiculas it stopping at a certain piont is sheer madness.
Face it nos sux, and the only reason it sucks so much is it gives ALOT of energy to the attacker from the victim, so just reduce the amount by alot. And perhaos do what happened to ECM half it and boost nos ships with bonuses. Or even more crazy, make nos chance basied and reduce the nossed amount!
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Rezeik Aurelius
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:49:00 -
[25]
Stacking penalty would be a nice start. Really, I don't see a problem with one or two NOS, it's the ships that have a full rack of them and can still deal damage and jam that's a problem. Stacking penalty would mostly resolve that issue.
If more nerfs are needed, then they can try something else later.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.12.11 17:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tiger Tamer
My favorite idea so far:
Give standard T1 nos a power cost equal to the power drain.
Don't forget to give nos falloff and signature resolution.
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.11 18:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Insidi Us
Well I would hope that ships that rely on NOS to survive, like the Pilgrim, would still be viable. If the last 30% remains, that's enough to power a tank to hold off the 5 medium drones a pilgrim will be using against you.
Unless you make it so that energy neuts can take off that remaining 30%, and the NOS will keep it down. So basically a NOS couldn't bring you below 30%, but it could KEEP you below 30%.
With the higher requirements of the neut this could be a balancing factor.
That was pretty much what I was thinking: the Nos setups would be tempered by having to mount Neuts to be able to completely incapacitate their targets.
... |
dust monkey
Minmatar
Tender Loving Care
Muffins of Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.12.11 18:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 11/12/2006 12:46:56
I'd actually prefer to see an effective counter-module and a stacking penalty. And if they introduce a counter-mod they should make it Amarr-friendly (low cpu usage).
in test today, after i nossed Jiekon to death and made my friend in a Thron invincible with remote reps he thed said that he was now changing nos so they have a stacking penalty. ( this was after he Dooms Dayed ffa 1 to death. )
---
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Tiger Tamer
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Posted - 2006.12.11 18:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Tiger Tamer
My favorite idea so far:
Give standard T1 nos a power cost equal to the power drain.
Don't forget to give nos falloff and signature resolution.
Why? NOS doesn't need to work like a gun, we have guns for that. But it does need some kind of drawback as a weapon. In other words, right now there's no tactical reason to NOT equip one and there needs to be. What I suggested would keep the draining ability of NOS intact while giving it an effective drawback that the user could control somewhat.
As for cap immunity... NOS / neuts should still be able to fully drain a ship's cap, as ultimately that is their main function. This doesn't mean that cap batteries should never be given some attribute like that (or maybe a NOS / neut resistance added to them).
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: dust monkey
in test today, after i nossed Jiekon to death and made my friend in a Thron invincible with remote reps he thed said that he was now changing nos so they have a stacking penalty. ( this was after he Dooms Dayed ffa 1 to death. )
*\o/* *\o/* *\o/*
If you are telling the truth, I <3 you!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.12.11 21:35:00 -
[31]
A stacking penalty would be OK - people have been fitting 2x nos to ships forever, I remember it being standard on many a setup even in mid-2004 and it never broke the game.
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them? 
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.11 22:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
A stacking penalty would be OK - people have been fitting 2x nos to ships forever, I remember it being standard on many a setup even in mid-2004 and it never broke the game.
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
They can fit some Nos and some Neuts?
... |
Dephma
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:05:00 -
[33]
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
=========
You would make a lovely corpse |
R'adeh
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
There ya go, this is the only right solution! Adapt or die, most modules have a successful counter 
__________________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
Yoshimako
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:17:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
Sure, okay, we can do that, lets just make the charges half of their current size to compensate.
Now please stfu.
Imo the stacking penalty sounds like the best idea. Make them pretty much useless past 3 NOS's, If anyone then wants more they can fit 3 neuts aswell. It allows for the tactical use and prevents the I-Win setups that are currently being used.
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LWMaverick
Quam Singulari
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:29:00 -
[36]
Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
<3  |
Drazin DawnTreader
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:33:00 -
[37]
I'd like to see the NoS modules have a min/max range attached.
Small NoS: 0-10,000m
Med. NoS: 10,000m - 20,000m
Heavy NoS: 20,000m-40,000m
Would make it more interesting for tacklers.
Can you get past that Heavy NoS range before you are sucked dry and your MWD shuts off?
Extended Small NoS range so if you can be webbed, you can NoS back.
Something to think about anyway.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: LWMaverick
Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
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Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:51:00 -
[39]
Make nosferatus turn your ship pink, that'll do fine.
(Poor dead horse by the way)
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.11 23:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick
Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
No, it only delays the inevitable. And while you get some cap from the injections you are still fueling the nossers tank...
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
|
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.12.12 00:48:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
They can fit some Nos and some Neuts?
4x Nos, 1x Neut on mine, two nos feed the neut, and the other two are there to prevent the thing from turning into a deathtrap if someone nosses me back. 3x nos, 2x neut with a stacking penalty to nos, is not going to work. Sure, you can fit a couple of guns, but that would completely destroy the purpose of the thing.
Just wondering then, since it takes 2x nos to feed a single neut, how do people propose to feed a neutraliser if nos have a stacking penalty? <--- Anyone? Answers on a postcard.
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everlasting shadow
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Posted - 2006.12.12 01:49:00 -
[42]
Hi All,
I think that all of this is just a waste of time.
There is always going to be some sort of I win button for someone.
You can re write the whole program and people will always find someone complaining that there is I win button on this or that.
I had a Domi with 2large nos and I lost because I did not have guns and the guy had 800 cap running while he finished me off.
It's how you set it up and who you fighting.
Get over it people.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:08:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04
the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 02:24:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Goumindong on 12/12/2006 02:24:32
Originally by: Xtro 2
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04
the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
Acutaly, its good because it can still do good damage while nossing. A geddon isnt bad with its 5 heavies, but the Domi is 30-50% better, and if you pop its drones, its got spares[Alternatly, it can use EW drones until you are nossed, thus reducing its exposure to damage even furhter], and enough mids to fit a decent EW.
Which makes the domi better than the Thron and Geddon for nossing. Nossing is about limiting your exposure to damage before your opponent is neutralized and being able to do damage while he is neutralized.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 02:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick
Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
no it doesn't, all it does is keep there tank going longer.
|
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 02:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
They can fit some Nos and some Neuts?
4x Nos, 1x Neut on mine, two nos feed the neut, and the other two are there to prevent the thing from turning into a deathtrap if someone nosses me back. 3x nos, 2x neut with a stacking penalty to nos, is not going to work. Sure, you can fit a couple of guns, but that would completely destroy the purpose of the thing.
Just wondering then, since it takes 2x nos to feed a single neut, how do people propose to feed a neutraliser if nos have a stacking penalty? <--- Anyone? Answers on a postcard.
cap injectors work.
|
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 02:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Dixon on 12/12/2006 02:35:40
Originally by: Xtro 2
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04
the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
Neither the Armageddon nor the Megathron have the CPU to fit 8 heavy nos. They also don't have a dronebonus, 5 medslots or a 375m3 dronebay.
Nerfing nos isn't dumb, I'm not sure the same can be said for you though.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.12 02:38:00 -
[48]
Giving nos equipped ships a sig radius penalty is insane. What would all the small ships with that empty hi slot fit? A salvager?
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Jang Ezhdeha
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:01:00 -
[49]
Stacking Penalty sounds good but unless its a major penalty its not going to make much difference on a ship running 4 NOS and 1-2 Neuts. A different alternative could be "NOS/Neut Slots" just like Launcher and Turret slots AND extra slots on those ships that already have bonuses to them for NOS and Neuts so they arent rendered as a useless bonus. Sometimes the best soloution to a problem isnt a complicated mathematical formula but rather simple addition or subtraction.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick
Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
no it doesn't, all it does is keep there tank going longer.
What? Are you honestly telling me you can't figure out how to stagger injections and module use to minimize their capgain and maximize yours? Or are you just wanting a module that you activate and gain immunity to Nos?
Seriously, if I can run a Cruiser and keep my cap up under Nossing from a Curse with a single injector long enough to kill a Curse with 5 Med Nos, it works fine. Maybe even better than fine.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.12 04:30:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Siakel
Originally by: LWMaverick
Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/12/2006 23:29:39
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
You really thought that through didnt'cha?
Eh? It works fine to counter Nos.
No, it only delays the inevitable. And while you get some cap from the injections you are still fueling the nossers tank...
Delays the inevitable?! What's wrong with you people?!
It's a perfect counter to Nos. They drain your cap, you inject it. If you time it right, you use up 90% of the cap. Yes, they almost inevitably gain some of it. But if they didn't, you'd be running your entire setup off a single midslot and making their 4-6 Highs invested in Nos useless.
Them getting cap is a risk you take for having a single module that can run your entire setup. Stop whining.
And what would a Nos-counter do? Reduce Nossing amount by 30%? Sure looks like 'delaying the inevitable' to me.
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xKillaH
Minmatar
Cruor Frater
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 11:04:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
A stacking penalty would be OK - people have been fitting 2x nos to ships forever, I remember it being standard on many a setup even in mid-2004 and it never broke the game.
The problem is what a stacking penalty would do to the Curse and Pilgrim, which depend on it as an integral part of their ship design. Perhaps an exception for them?
Maybe they could add a little bonus. But I think most Curses and Pilgrims use neuts.
Originally by: Dephma
There is a counter, its called "Cap Injector". Its simply magical.
Cap Injector doesn't keep your ship alive if it's being nossed by 6-8 heavy nos. You will die and 1 Cap Injector wonŠt save you. There's two ways. Nerf nos or boost cap injectors/cap charges. Decrease the m3 the cap charges take. Cap Charges
are not endless. After they are finished you are dead.
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
I'd like to see the NoS modules have a min/max range attached.
Small NoS: 0-10,000m
Med. NoS: 10,000m - 20,000m
Heavy NoS: 20,000m-40,000m
Would make it more interesting for tacklers.
Can you get past that Heavy NoS range before you are sucked dry and your MWD shuts off?
Extended Small NoS range so if you can be webbed, you can NoS back.
Something to think about anyway.
If that would be done then only sniping ships would fit nos and I don't think that's a smart idea. Nos is for closerange and I don't think that will be changed
For A Extra Christmas sig click Here (too big for the forums) |
Olev
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Posted - 2006.12.12 12:36:00 -
[53]
how to make em like targer painters work?
so they have a optimal range.
more sig radius for more nos u have?
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2006.12.12 12:43:00 -
[54]
I wote for the simple solution. Remove them (nos) from the game. Neuts are fine, as they take as much from the target as the user. Nosses just take with no drawback.
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Soraya Kha'marr
Amarr
Gun Metal Priests
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:12:00 -
[55]
i like the idea from ealier in the thread: make the NOS use cap as well, like a neut, but this cap use can be reduced using the energy emissions skills. that way, they are not only different from neuts as you gain some cap no matter what your skill lvl is, but they are also reduced in effectiveness. currently, they are offensive and defensive - you gain cap, your opponent loses it. if its changed the way it was proposed, its still very offensive, with its defensive side reduced.
it will also take brains to use. at the moment its 'get in range and hit the nos button'. with the above change, you can only NOS for a certain amount of time. if you nos for too long, you lose cap.
Introduce a sig radius for nos and alls sorted. small ships can use their nos against bigger ships to power their modules. big ships can still use nos against smaller ships, but with reduced effectiveness. Heck, you can even introduce a stacking penalty (curse and pilgrim excluded) if you must.
Wouldnt that solve it all?
This space is mine, mine alone!!!oneoneeleven!
(You can rent it for cookies though.)
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Mekkan Eil
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:22:00 -
[56]
The danger with nerfing Nosferatu is that we risk turning combat into a slug fest where only guns matter. Whether Nos are overpowered or not, if no one has to worry about encountering a ship that uses them, everyone will fit lots of guns, press F1 through F8, and wait.
Nosferatu add a level of complexity to combat, and a totally new way to play. Not everyone wants to fly a gun ship, or a missile boat - it is good that there are other viable methods of combat. If anything, I think it would be exciting to even more non-turret high slot weapons added, though I'm not sure what they would be.
Nosferatu keep combat varied, and prevent a "big guns win" mentality from taking over. Variety and complexity are some of EVE's most appealing, and most beautifully executed features.
Best wishes, Mekkan Eil
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.12 13:26:00 -
[57]
Nos is fine, there's a few ships for which it works exceptionally well and if you're fighting them then you damn well should change your setup to account for this.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: xKillaH
Cap Injector doesn't keep your ship alive if it's being nossed by 6-8 heavy nos. You will die and 1 Cap Injector wonŠt save you. There's two ways. Nerf nos or boost cap injectors/cap charges. Decrease the m3 the cap charges take. Cap Charges
are not endless. After they are finished you are dead.
What is wrong with you people, seriously? Does anyone else not see how stupid it looks to be whining that your one midslot won't save you from a ship that has dedicated 6-8 of it's highslots to Heavy Nos?
I guess we should nerf TDs, because one Tracking Comp won't save me from 5-6 Tracking Disruptors.
And nerf Sensor Damps because when someone puts 6-8 RSDs on me, my one sensor booster won't counter it all.
And nerf ECM because I can still be jammed easily by 6-8 ECM modules, despite having fit an ECCM module.
Now since those all look horribly stupid, why should fitting a single injector save you from 6-8 Heavy Nos? Especially if you won't make an effort to time the injector right and maximize it's effectiveness.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 12/12/2006 02:35:40
Originally by: Xtro 2
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 02:10:04
the dominix etc is not a good NOS ship, any ship that can slap on a tank and all highs is a good NOS ship.
I have a megathron with 8x hvy nos, does that mean the thron should be nerfed?
How about the geddon? apoc?
Dominix is just popular because its crap at any other role tbh, its cheap, and has drone bonus, but if your opponent has no cap left, who cares if you have a dmg bonus or not, a geddon, thron or any other will do the job of nossing far better than a domi.
As for nerfing them, thats a dumb idea, the games going to be utterly ruined once every item in the game has been penalised to death because someone manages to adapt to a previous nerf and it becomes a popular idea. Mind you were not far off that now.
Neither the Armageddon nor the Megathron have the CPU to fit 8 heavy nos. They also don't have a dronebonus, 5 medslots or a 375m3 dronebay.
Nerfing nos isn't dumb, I'm not sure the same can be said for you though.
those ships can easily fit 8 heavy nos, my megathron has 8 fitted, and a full standard armour tank, as for drone bonus, well unless your fighting a missile boat, who cares about your damage, as long as the other guys cap is empty, your in no rush.
.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness. |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: xKillaH
Hey there.
I was told that Nosferatu was going to get nerfed. Ships like Rokh and Domi are the uber nos ships. Nos are probably being nerfed because of theese two ships. I was just wondering if they get nerfed what will CCP decrease?
It must be the drain ammount.
Instead of decreasing drain ammount then CCP should consider having it like the damage mods.
After 3 damage mods you're bonus you get from the next damage mod you fit will decrease.
For Nosferatu it'll be after 2-3 nos (dunno how many) the drain ammount will decrease.
Discuss
Hey, what is so good in Nos-Rokh?
---------------------------------
Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh
Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS.
R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven>
R.I.P. <Eagle>
R.I.P. <ECM>
R.I.P. <Drake>
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MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:44:00 -
[61]
Not another Nos whine... Nos are already nerfed by huge power grid requirements. I could see trading a stacking penalty for a reduction in grid requirements.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell |
xKillaH
Minmatar
Cruor Frater
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:43:00 -
[62]
The people that think this is a Whine thread plz read it before posting.
This is a discussion about what would be nerfed if the nos would be nerfed(which is very likely).
So plz read it before posting whine about whining.
For A Extra Christmas sig click Here (too big for the forums) |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:59:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 12/12/2006 19:00:03
You know, another possibility is one suggested as much as a year ago, namely introducing logistics* slots to go alongside our existing turret and missile slots. This way nos and neutralisers alike could be limited in quantity.
I would imagine one would be the minimum, two would be the max on most ships, and some (Amarr only, woot) would have three, with Curse and Pilgrim having all their high slots available for fitting nos/neuts. Nothing else would be able to fit four.
Thus quadruple nos setups would be history - for most ships two would be the limit imposed by slot types. Plus it may be no bad thing to include smartbombs in that category.
* Not strictly speaking logistics at all - I am not talking about remote armour / shield reps.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:57:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 12/12/2006 20:58:51
Introduce highslot items that shield your cap against NOS.
Capacitor Insulation Device I
Reduces the effect NOS/NEUTS have by 10%
You cant fit 10 on any ship at all, so cant totally stop NOS/NEUTS.
A intentional downside would be a reduced amount of remote cap from cap transfers from your friends.
Bam everyone happy.
.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness. |
Majin82
Caldari
g guild
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:07:00 -
[65]
The Only way to balance out Nos is to give it the stacking penalty.
1 = 100% effectiveness
2 = 80%
3 = 60%
...
That way anything after 2 starts to become a wasted slot.
-------------------------------------
Proud member of G Guild! |
Inquis Eisenhorn
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:47:00 -
[66]
NOS are fine, they just need a better counter imo.
[URL=http://imageshack.us][/url]
VILLIANS! I admit the deed, te |
Aberrant
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Posted - 2006.12.13 00:46:00 -
[67]
Any nerf to nos, and I agree they do need one or people will continue to use all nos highslot setups, should take into consideration the effect it will have on the 2 Amarr recon ships (which I admittedly fly).
The most common idea heard is to make a final % of cap nosproof. This kind of change would effectively cripple these ships. A change along the lines of a sig radius penalty, or what was done with ecm and certain ships fitting it, would also likely be a good fix.
I implore you ccp dont ruin my two favorite amarr ships with this (possible) nerf to nos.
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.13 01:19:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Razin on 13/12/2006 01:19:00
Originally by: Aberrant
Any nerf to nos, and I agree they do need one or people will continue to use all nos highslot setups, should take into consideration the effect it will have on the 2 Amarr recon ships (which I admittedly fly).
The most common idea heard is to make a final % of cap nosproof. This kind of change would effectively cripple these ships. A change along the lines of a sig radius penalty, or what was done with ecm and certain ships fitting it, would also likely be a good fix.
I implore you ccp dont ruin my two favorite amarr ships with this (possible) nerf to nos.
Those ships also get a bonus for Neuts, don't they?
...
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Aberrant
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Posted - 2006.12.13 01:24:00 -
[69]
Aye. However, without a nos running a neut will run me out of cap just as fast as any opponent. Will also have no cap for ewar, tank, propulsion mods, indeed anything.
Also in regards to 30% immune capacitors. People will be able to field ships with ridiculous cap recharge rates meant to function optimally in that "sweet spot" Indeed against the amarr recons the goal would be to drop your own cap to below 30% as quickly as possible and to take advantage of a fast recharge rate. Leaving them immune to the primary purpose of our ship. Even if the recon were to run its neut, with a cap of around 1500 we will quickly run dry after only a couple neut cycles while their cap still happily regens and drops around the 30% mark.
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Altemi Calabre
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:04:00 -
[70]
Can i ask the blisteringly obvious question?
Why not just make sure they have a to hit roll or tracking? Wouldn't that bring them in line with many other high slot items that perform best against ships of given classes? Then adjust drain for signature.
Voila?
Math is already in place for this, why not leverage what we have?
Altemi
~ Why is it those with the greatest responsibility to make good decisions so often seem the least capable or inclined?
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
|
Posted - 2006.12.13 03:17:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Altemi Calabre
Can i ask the blisteringly obvious question?
Why not just make sure they have a to hit roll or tracking? Wouldn't that bring them in line with many other high slot items that perform best against ships of given classes? Then adjust drain for signature.
Voila?
Math is already in place for this, why not leverage what we have?
Altemi
because like ECM changes they become a bad change after the "fix".
.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness. |
Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.13 04:02:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 11/12/2006 16:02:05
Originally by: Latex Mistress
It takes a high slot, why not require tracking?
Ooooh, can we give missiles tracking then?
No, but you can make it so that it doesn't do as much damage when exploding next to very fast or very small targets.
Oh wait...
LM
Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
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kessah
Caldari
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.12.13 04:17:00 -
[73]
Edited by: kessah on 13/12/2006 04:20:24
my personal opinion is that nos is lame, but not in a support role 1 or 2 nos to hold your cap up enuf agaisnt other nos users, but thats it you only use nos to counter other nos latly.
The Domi: my personal opinion on this *if used with the 2 days skills reqs of the heavy nos* is that if there used for full nos capabilities its the lamest ship to ever grace eve and the most boring to fly.
Nos is overpowered because any noob can use them and a domi fitted up in such a way well lets just just say a year ago i had a go in one and i had about 700k in drones then gal bs 3 and i killed everything other than domi with same setup.
If its going to be nerfed it better be nerfed to a point that fitting your high slots full of them is to be majorly discouraged. And that ccp should add some skills to them 2days to heavy nos isnt cool.
[EDIT] its funny all the players that are for nerfing nos are players ive seen for years in eve and i know have some nice skillpoints in gunnery. The people agaisnt seem the 10~15m sp players that havnt yet got there gunnery skills up and need the easy fitting nos.
Thats not very balanced guys. Dont be biased with something becus you own with it. [/EDIT]
--------------------------------------------------------
Forever Pirate 2
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xKillaH
Minmatar
Cruor Frater
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:58:00 -
[74]
Originally by: kessah
Edited by: kessah on 13/12/2006 04:20:24
If its going to be nerfed it better be nerfed to a point that fitting your high slots full of them is to be majorly discouraged. And that ccp should add some skills to them 2days to heavy nos isnt cool.
i.e. Stacking penalty like the topic says.
For A Extra Christmas sig click Here (too big for the forums) |
Valen Itrius
Gallente
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.13 13:58:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Majin82
The Only way to balance out Nos is to give it the stacking penalty.
1 = 100% effectiveness
2 = 80%
3 = 60%
...
That way anything after 2 starts to become a wasted slot.
I'm not sure if it matters but would the reduction in effectiveness affect subsequent nos or all nos?
What i mean is hi slot 1 has 100%, hi slot 2 has 80% etc etc or is it reducing the effectiveness of all nos fitted?
-----------------------------------------
Valen 4tw \o/ |
Jin Freaks
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:45:00 -
[76]
Then I would like to say to the old people: Do u remember the time when everyone was saying that there was no point in fitting a nos because it allmost used more cap then it drained? I have 10 mil in gunnery and I say leave it as it is.
cheers
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plastic fantastic
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Posted - 2006.12.13 16:23:00 -
[77]
sig penalty + some sort of anti-nos rigs imho
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xKillaH
Minmatar
Cruor Frater
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.12.14 14:25:00 -
[78]
Originally by: plastic fantastic
sig penalty + some sort of anti-nos rigs imho
sig penalty would probably make ppl stop fitting em(except if it's a little sig penalty like in Shield Extenders).
Anti-nos rigs could work, but I think stacking penalty would be better.
For A Extra Christmas sig click Here (too big for the forums) |
Kyra Moonfall
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.14 14:39:00 -
[79]
Originally by: xKillaH
Hey there.
I was told that Nosferatu was going to get nerfed. Ships like Rokh and Domi are the uber nos ships. Nos are probably being nerfed because of theese two ships. I was just wondering if they get nerfed what will CCP decrease?
It must be the drain ammount.
Instead of decreasing drain ammount then CCP should consider having it like the damage mods.
After 3 damage mods you're bonus you get from the next damage mod you fit will decrease.
For Nosferatu it'll be after 2-3 nos (dunno how many) the drain ammount will decrease.
Discuss
/signed
Death to Nosomix, Nosphoon.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.12.14 14:47:00 -
[80]
Nos themselves really don't need a nerf since attacking a targets cap should be just as viable as attacking their shields/armour.
What nos needs though is an effective counter that people can use as a balance.
The best idea I ever read for this was using the cap batteries to give the player a portion of extra cap that cannot be drained by NOS or Neuts.
This allows nos to be used to reduce the effectiveness of a ship (by limiting what mods can be run at a given time) but not cripple it.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.14 15:01:00 -
[81]
I find both stacking and cap battery idea to be good. Probably both should be introduced, also cap batteries need a slight boost in cap amount they give and reduction in fitting reqs (they require shedloads of cpu right now iirc, not too nice for amarr and gallente, which would be their primary users).
Originally by: Wrangler
We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!  
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