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Why the hate march on mission runners. ?

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Spuck	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Crumplecorn I hate people who enjoy missions on principle. It's just wrong. Thing that bothers me about missions themselves is they are more than ISK faucets. There's stuff like research agents and stuff, and to get the good ones you have to grind stupid PvE. FFS. nobody forces you to fly missions ! nobody cares if you like mission or not ! nobody cares if ya like em or not ! while EVERYBODY should just play like he wants to play !
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:20:00 - [32] Edited by: Too Kind on 13/12/2006 12:25:28 EVE is also an isk competition and many not so rich pvp'ers don't like to compete with PvE people, who make isk all day long and suffer almost no losses. Especially they hate farmers. To stay competitive as a pvp'er, I need to grind to raise my wallet like the mission runner and do some extra grinding to replace my losses. Looks like one needs to play 23/7 as a pvp'er to stay competive or needs to win the tech-2 lottery. So many pvp'er are poor, because their pve activity is to replace losses. The pure pve player becomes richer and richer, buys bpos and becomes even more rich and raises the prices on the market, which many pvp guys really don't like. Now they even want to get extra isk from us for rig-stuff. Kill 'em all ! I say. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:24:00 - [33] the problem with a lot of arguments about eve is that too many people confuse oppinion with fact. -NEVER CONFUSE OPPINION WITH FACT-
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:24:00 - [34] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/12/2006 12:27:08 Originally by: Spuck Originally by: Crumplecorn I hate people who enjoy missions on principle. It's just wrong. Thing that bothers me about missions themselves is they are more than ISK faucets. There's stuff like research agents and stuff, and to get the good ones you have to grind stupid PvE. FFS. nobody forces you to fly missions ! nobody cares if you like mission or not ! nobody cares if ya like em or not ! while EVERYBODY should just play like he wants to play ! 1. If I want a good research agent I have to grind missions. Thusly I am not interested in a good research agent (fortunately the lottery and invention are broken anyway, so I'm not missing much) 2. Nobody should care 3. Again, nobody should care Conversly, I don't care that no one cares, and I don't care that you do seem to care. There are many other groups of people in the world who I dislike in general, and they don't care either, but that doesn't stop me from disliking them, or from pointing it out when that group is the topic of discussion. Incidentally, did you miss the part where the OP actually asked why people hate mission runners? Your's is an odd response to someone merely answering a question. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Too Kind Edited by: Too Kind on 13/12/2006 12:20:40 EVE is also an isk competition and many not so rich pvp'ers don't like to compete with PvE people, who make isk all day long and suffer almost no losses. Especially they hate farmers. To stay competitive as a pvp'er, I need to grind to raise my wallet like the mission runner and do some extra grinding to relace my losses. Looks like one needs to play 23/7 as a pvp'er to stay competive or needs to win the tech-2 lottery. So many pvp'er are poor, because their pve activity is to replace losses. The pure pve player becomes richer and richer, buys bpos and becomes even more rich and raises the prices on the market, which many pvp guys really don't like. But the PvPer gets rewarded with the infinite fun that PvP always is, while the mission runner is stuck with the boring PvE (and according to most gankbears absolutely cannot have any fun). And is not fun the ultimate reward in any game? --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:26:00 - [36] Well alot of those posted here comes with reasons why missionrunners are getting it. As a missionrunner/industrialist... I can say that I do my missions in low sec and the risk there atleast before this patch are just stupidly high.... Before Kali atleast you had a chance to avoid pirates, yet I got frequently visited in my deadspacepocket by pirates. But living in low sec gives you a few clues on who to keep away and how to run the missions to be as safe as possible. Then the patch came and well ofcourse now they are fixing that mistake and hopefully missionrunners are returning to low sec. Problem is that the whining pirates are the same that always say when missionrunners complain "Adapt or die!!!" once the missionrunners addapted... the pipe got a different tone... "Missionrunners are without risk!!!!"... sorry pirates.. you forced the missionrunners to adapt, now it is time for pirates to adapt. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Vuller Hubris	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:30:00 - [37] I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod.
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:33:00 - [38] It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:34:00 - [39] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/12/2006 12:36:46 Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. It's because Eve has full on PvE and full on PvP with real true massively multiplayer aspects mixed in there too. It attracts such diverse people that you end up with groups of people who dislike people who play other games finding those people playing a different part of 'their' game. Your example of 'PvP' shows you are not immune to this yourself. But the problem isn't groups of people who dislike each other, that's normal and it's fine. It's the people who complain about the people who dislike them, attempting to denigrate them in the process. Like the mission runners in this thread. And, now, because of posting this, me. Vicious cycle, no? ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. Absolutely right.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Queen Hades It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf. a very small fig leaf hehehe -NEVER CONFUSE OPPINION WITH FACT-
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Queen Hades It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf. lol I mean, really, lol. On so many levels. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Jessica Lorelei Originally by: Queen Hades It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf. a very small fig leaf hehehe It's the same as with real life pimped car owners... a big fig leaf is most probably not needed anyway.
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:47:00 - [44] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Have i missed something over the last 3-4 years ? Maybe i have, i dont read or post much here, But i take it evrey "non" mission runner is blaming the mission runners for? A - the system LAG? B - The system congestion ? C - The fact that most of us have a full set of +5 implants? D - That we fly some of the most expensive ships with the best mods? E - that we have large ISK wallets? F - that CCP dropped the Salvage prereqs and we can salvage heaps of cool stuff to make rig mods? And just for the record some not all, use missions to fund the war machine ie PVP. Soooooo i say YAY for the mission runners... The rich get richer .... the poor get.... upset cause they have lag and noob ships with a civilian shield booster Well, i don't know about anyone else, since i am not them, but i personally don't hate mission runners. What i sure hate as hell is high sec. runners coming to the forums to whine to be absolutely safe withing mission pockets, even in high sec. In EVE you're not safe anywhere, see all the "tricks" to destroy and/or ransom people in high sec. that CCP, of course, has sanctioned as legit. Why missions should be any different at all? Specially when before Revelations, it was possible to scan a mission (however complicated it might have been ,it was possible), jump into it and do exactly all the same things that people now complain about. _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:47:00 - [45] Edited by: Victor Vision on 13/12/2006 12:51:01 Edited by: Victor Vision on 13/12/2006 12:50:10 Missions, NPC ratting, complex running, PvP, mining, production and trading are all parts of the game. It is surprising that a small, but vocal, minority of PvPers seem to have a problem with mission runners. I know a good amount of PvPers who purchase their isk. Legaly, via GTC, may I add. Personaly I prefer to keep playing in game and not spend additional RL money to buy equipment. For most people in alliances, that leaves Missions, NPC ratting, complex running, mining, production and trading to fund themselves. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
TheZiggy Caldari Star Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:11:00 - [46] I run quite a lot of lvl 4 missions, mainly for faction standing purposes. There are quite a few aspects of the game make good standings useful, such as refining and selling items on the market. While I have made quite a substantial amount of isk from running these missions, the first 6 months of the year I was doing a huge amount of tech 1 ship and module building, from which a much larger pile of isk was collected at the end of the day. Some of the missions are fairly boring, as someone said. Warp in-gank-loot/salvage (if you want)-go home. However some of them can be fun if you try different tactics from time to time. If it was totally boring what would be the point? As for the problem with people jumping in on someone's mission to attack them, is because of how fast someone can find you inside the mission. During the pvp tournament it was admitted that while yes it should be possible to scan someone down, it shouldn't be that quick. Thinking about though, on Angel Extravaganza room one could be quite a shock to a pirate if he warped in on you and got most of the spawn aggroed on them. It just a fact we have to deal with, that there will always be someone that whines about something else that other players do. I still wonder if there's a big group of players that don't dare to go anywhere with less than 0.5 security, even with warp to zero.
LynxArd UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:17:00 - [47] i use to speak to level 4 mission runners when i used to do them, a lot were or are pvpers earning enough to pvp, some taking a break from the pvp scene others changing there gamestyle etc etc, they allways helped the new mission runners. when u are at war in 0.0 its not easy to get time to rat and even then you either rat or pvp u cant setup a ship to do both efficiantly, so its more viable and a lot safer to run missions in empire, until ccp make a viable option for earning isk in 0.0 then it will be as it is, they keep nerfing missions players wont have the isk to buy ships to pvp, i firmly believe the problem lies at ccps feet to sort this, the nature of the game dictates its playstyle so to blame the players for having to earn isk in empire so they can pvp in 0.0 is crazy, the question that should be being asked is, why do they *have to go to that extreme in a game? ccp? as for pirates, nah the real pirates dont complain, its the lame pirates that need 10-1 odds and still fail that cry, unfortunately there are a lot of them, they want it all for 0 input, at least the mission runner puts effort in. at the end of the day its just a game, if i wanna pvp thats my choice, if i wanna mine or mission run or just sit in jita refreshing the market its all my choice, until CCP states otherwise i play my game how i wish, if people dont like it then they need to get a reality check, eve doesnt revolve around one type of player and it should never be that way. its a cold world until someone puts a laser up your intake.
zeroh Caldari V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:23:00 - [48] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS E - that we have large ISK wallets? lol how much can u make a day agent whoring in high sec 100m? 200m? a day ?
haniblecter	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:26:00 - [49] Mission runners contribute to empire lag. Empire should be for the few that reeeally cant handle risk or the very new. Everyone else should be in 00, makihng more ISK per hour for marginally more risk.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:37:00 - [50] Lets turn the question around? What risk does the pirates, "feeding" off belt ratters and mission runners, have? I would say that its the real 0 risk, great reward. When the pirate attacks, the victim is allready under fire and is straining his/hers tank. So, really, where is your risk? Concord? Don't do it in Empire. Low seceurity rating? That is not gonna kill you, unless you fail the point above. People hunting you? When hunted, you are not hunting. And why don't you just face them like you want your victims to do? (Above questions are not meant as bashing, but I really need an explanation)
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:51:00 - [51] Originally by: zeroh Originally by: CRUSH BOSS E - that we have large ISK wallets? lol how much can u make a day agent whoring in high sec 100m? 200m? a day ? If you play 23/7, yeah. Which means it is only a fraction of what you can make in 0.0 And besides, if pirates rather spend their time on destroying other peoples isk than creating their own, they should not blame others for their very own choice. Not to mention that if they are actually good at what they do, they destroy other peoples isk AND make their own too in the process. I guess the real problem is the many simpletons who actually fail at being good. And those are on both sides of the fense, the bad runners cry for invincibility, the bad pirates cry to have PvE players to be nothing but game content for them. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:52:00 - [52] Originally by: haniblecter Mission runners contribute to empire lag. Empire should be for the few that reeeally cant handle risk or the very new. Everyone else should be in 00, makihng more ISK per hour for marginally more risk. LOL How does gate camping contribute to income?
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Crumplecorn Conversly, I don't care that no one cares, and I don't care that you do seem to care. There are many other groups of people in the world who I dislike in general, and they don't care either, but that doesn't stop me from disliking them, or from pointing it out when that group is the topic of discussion. Quoted for being a well written piece of textual beauty.
Souvera Corvus Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/12/2006 12:36:46 Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. It's because Eve has full on PvE and full on PvP with real true massively multiplayer aspects mixed in there too. It attracts such diverse people that you end up with groups of people who dislike people who play other games finding those people playing a different part of 'their' game. Your example of 'PvP' shows you are not immune to this yourself. But the problem isn't groups of people who dislike each other, that's normal and it's fine. It's the people who complain about the people who dislike them, attempting to denigrate them in the process. Like the mission runners in this thread. And, now, because of posting this, me. Vicious cycle, no? Vicious circle? Potentially yes, but then I would never campaign for the styles of play that I don't particularly enjoy to be banned or to be schemed out of the game. "If man does not know to which port he is sailing, no wind is favourable"
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:14:00 - [55] Edited by: CRUSH BOSS on 14/12/2006 00:17:21 How many mission runners actualy go beyond the Flashing red targets and survey the enviroment around them, I have found some amazing "secrets" CCP arnt just going to give you every thing served on a platter, Take a moment to look around, you might get a plesant suprise. I know i have. When doing missions now days, instead of 5 of us doing 5 seperate missions (LVL 4) all 5 of us do the one mission, Every ship fitted to do is seperate thing and not all combat ready. The riches go far beyond the Blast every thing to hell and get another mission. So Ship1 the "tank" this guys take all the fire power and more :) and proberl;y has the most expensive ship ie somewhere in the cost of 5-6 Billion isk. Then you have the 2 PVP - PVE ships thiese are the 2 ships that hold the Pirates at bay in low sec, and also can give the support role to the TANK if things run into trouble, also being quite capable of taking down PVE enemys. The survey and salvage ship, usualy the flycatcher, great salvage ship indeed, all this guy or gal :) does if pick up loot and rig parts. Last but not least the Strip miner... yep thats right, but im not going into that. So you say missions are boaring, Rinse repeat yea they proberly would. SO you have PVE, PVP (in low sec) Support, combat tactics. Mining and Exploration .... and you guys say its boaring.. pffft....with no REAL LOSS .. LOL tell that to me when a pirate band ang LAG takes your TANK ship out. no real loss indeed. We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust In fact I would dare say that mission running really has no risk. As opposed to the risk of, say, a battleship locking down an industrial ship? As opposed to the risk of, say, PvPers wardeccing industrial corps? As opposed to the risk of, say, 'hardcore' mercs wardeccing noob corps? As opposed to the risk of, say, people logging off in PvP combat to save their ship? According to the above quote no mission runner should ever lose a ship past their first few level 1 missions (enough to learn the ins and outs of them).
Soporo	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:03:00 - [57] To the Op. They are angry that they cant insta-scan/gank LowSec missioners now. Quinn in another thread pretty much summed it up. Quote: They are not "pvpers" they are gankbears complaining about the loss of their easy prey. There are plenty of opportunities for non-consensual PvP in this game. Get a group of 2-3 pirates together and run quick strikes against 0.0 alliances. Tons of targets. Declare an empire war against a major alliance. Again, tons of targets. Join an alliance, become a merc corp, just head to 0.0 and start shooting folk.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:22:00 - [58] I have a slight dislike for mission runners.. My reasons are not very original, for me it comes down to the whole risk/efford VS reward thing like with many people. Mission runners have it easy compared to the rest of the player popuation when it comes to making isk, they simply have to shoot at something, and they get money in their wallets for it, and since the NPC's are so predictable, and other players cant directly touch them, they can pimp out their ships with the most rediculously priced mods to make it even easier. The rest of us.. Miners have to find the ore, mine it, transport it, then refine it, and possibly transport it yet again. There is alot more involved than simply clicking twice and pressing F1 trough F8 to get that donation to your wallet as a miner. In low sec solo mining is just not done, you NEED others, which you dont for most lvl4 missions. Ratters.. well i cant imagine any serious ratters operating in highsec, the risks of lowsec are well documented so i'll leave that up to your imagination. Pirates.. well from what i understand making money as a pirate is quite hard, you have to deal with a hostile.. human target, other pirates, anti pirates, alliances.. while you f* up your sec rating, they are faced with targets that just wont pay the ransom, theres alot of risk, and not always a reward. So yeah, i believe missioners have it quite easy.. too easy, which kind of annoys me, and i imagine the same is true for others. If i'm missing something, feel free to englighten me. Originally by:** Deja Thoris The dead horse has now been flogged into puree.
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Crumplecorn I hate people who enjoy missions on principle. It's just wrong. I believe no comment is necessary after this thoughtful and well documented reply. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Hephaesteus Gallente PILGRIMS Insane Asylum	Posted - 2006.12.14 02:09:00 - [60] Originally by: Clytamar I don't care if mission runners are filthy rich and fly uber-ships with the rarest mods. Missioning is boring, at the end of the day. Very boring. There's so much more to EvE and much faster end interesting ways to make your billions. -- Zenud In your opinion. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.

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