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Why the hate march on mission runners. ?

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CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:15:00 - [1] Have i missed something over the last 3-4 years ? Maybe i have, i dont read or post much here, But i take it evrey "non" mission runner is blaming the mission runners for? A - the system LAG? B - The system congestion ? C - The fact that most of us have a full set of +5 implants? D - That we fly some of the most expensive ships with the best mods? E - that we have large ISK wallets? F - that CCP dropped the Salvage prereqs and we can salvage heaps of cool stuff to make rig mods? And just for the record some not all, use missions to fund the war machine ie PVP. Soooooo i say YAY for the mission runners... The rich get richer .... the poor get.... upset cause they have lag and noob ships with a civilian shield booster We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:17:00 - [2] To much competition on the loot market for the gankers needing to grind some missions on alts for their Isk fix. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Kryss Darkdust	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:28:00 - [3] I think most of the complaints have to do with the fact that at this point if you want to make money anything but running missions and ratting in 0.0 space means you will make significantly less ISK then if you ran missions. Considering the hazards of 0.0 space, mission running is far superior to ratting in 0.0 Most other notably profitable professions of the past have really slipped from grace. With all the drawbacks and dangers of being a pirate for example you might expect it to be a highly profitable proffession, but in the end any noob running level 3 or 4 missions will make way more ISK then even the best pirates simply because of how good the mission rewards have become. With profitability being so good in mission running it has sort of made several other professions obsolete, at least if your trying to maximise your profits. Obviously if you pirate simply for the joy of it, thats one thing, but just strictly speaking in terms of time vs. value, mission running is superior to everything else in the game after you factor in risk. More importantly its gauranteed. Unlike pirating for example which you could spend a lot of time simply hunting fruitlessly, every moment spent mission running is profitable and the risk is extremly low. In fact I would dare say that mission running really has no risk. Are you are gamer? www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:31:00 - [4] Missioning sucks.
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust In fact I would dare say that mission running really has no risk. Tell that to the neverending gate spawn on Enemies Abound 5/5 :D We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Elfman Obsidian Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:33:00 - [6] Weird I only run mission's (as little as possible) to get standings up so I dont pay refine tax when refining ore and loot for corp. For corp as I dont mine either - all I play for is phew phew. And yes even my youngest daughter's favorite line is "daddy do grow up" when she overhears me on TS. Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Aslann Missioning sucks. Sucks ..... ?? u cant PVP 23/7 , have to get isk from somehwhere. We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:36:00 - [8] Quote: [...] because of how good the mission rewards have become. [...] You do not run missions, don't you? Loot and bounty have not been as low as they're these days for a long time. Rewards aren't that good neither. They just can't make the HiSec mission runner's ships go boom. And the average mission runner does not really care about a ganker's whines about that fact. Did you hear the miners complain about mission runners? Or did the productive people complain past the usual 'They're undercutting even the mineral costs.' lately? I know quite a few pilots out there who do not complain about mission runners, who love hunting down others and can live on small wallets. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Lokyi	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:46:00 - [9] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Have i missed something over the last 3-4 years ? Maybe i have, i dont read or post much here, But i take it evrey "non" mission runner is blaming the mission runners for? A - the system LAG? well... you do tank what, 40 rats at a time? Quote: B - The system congestion ? Nah, that's the ph4gs sitting in the station undock bay doing nothing... well, maybe they cyber in the help channel or something, I think that must be what I'm missing Quote: C - The fact that most of us have a full set of +5 implants? Well, someone has to have em ay? Quote: D - That we fly some of the most expensive ships with the best mods? Cos we can TANK :D PvPers are too scared to loose their noob stuff :P Quote: E - that we have large ISK wallets? Cos PvPers spend what meagre savings they have on a new Caracal :P Quote: F - that CCP dropped the Salvage prereqs and we can salvage heaps of cool stuff to make rig mods? Personally I think this was fruity. Only cos I trained Survey V before they dropped it. Now any noob can use salvage mods :P How about dropping all the pre-requisites for scan probes to "look, I can fly an Ibis" status while ur at it so we can all raid each others missions too :P Quote: And just for the record some not all, use missions to fund the war machine ie PVP. Soooooo i say YAY for the mission runners... The rich get richer .... the poor get.... upset cause they have lag and noob ships with a civilian shield booster ...The poor get podded - or stay in empire.
Aphotic Raven Gallente WMD Special Forces Dark Forces Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:47:00 - [10] I'm used to being poor.. tried missions... they arent all that great.. but risk = 0 makes it easy even with level 3 missions to grind your ass up to hefty balance (ive got enough for a few months pvp...) and level 4 missions are hard, there i said it, i got my ass kicked a few times, though once you figure them out the warp - gank spawn - attack next spawn - go home thing gets too easy Some missions should be rediculously hard... On the other hand who the ** cares what carebears get up too??!! what are they gonna do with all that isk? buy another CNR? good for them... I'd like to see a load of NPCs dropping cool BPCs in 0.0. i dont care if this screws the faction market.... faction ships are pretty in compare with t2 (excluding battleships.. nothing to really compare em too...) Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ***** nerf. True story
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:49:00 - [11] mission running does indeed suck take your 4*100k battleships and no loot drops if you want i like the 0.0 500k to 15 mill + battleship spawns with the chance of rare faction mods worth 100's of millions, along with the nice fairly common named loot worth 10's of millions knowledge is power.... guard it well
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:53:00 - [12] A large part of the ill feeling towrds mission runners comes from the mistaken belief that all mission runners get huge ISK rewrds from it. In fact unless you have an very expensive setup and loads of SP missons are not nearly as profitable as a people believe. However enough people have reported speed running level 4s in faction fitted Raven's that most players can only dream of, earning multi-million ISK per mission, that this is now the common view amongst your average ganker. Combine this with the fact that the typical lowsec gankbear takes warp to 0 as a personal attack and you get the current situation. The source of most of the real misson hate comes from the third rate pirate wanabees. Before the usual mob of mission haters leap in let me say that I don't only run missions, and am not saying this simply to defend my own playstyle, if I was told tomorrow there where no more missions it would have little impact on my game. I spend as much time in 0.0 as I do in Empire. 0.0 ratting is hardly riskier than mission running, in alliance space I have yet to lose a ship doing it and the rewrds much greater than I can get missioning. Whilst I cannot fly all 0.0 mission solo I can kill pretty much any rat I find in 0.0. However I have run enough missions to know that for the average player they are not the endless money fountain that critics claim them to be. Overall mission running ranks well below 0.0 Alliance space ratting or mining when it comes to an attractive risk/reward ratio.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:54:00 - [13] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Originally by: Aslann Missioning sucks. Sucks ..... ?? u cant PVP 23/7 , have to get isk from somehwhere. some peeps make money to pvp, others pvp to make money, you know???
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:55:00 - [14] Edited by: Sendraks on 13/12/2006 09:01:27 Originally by: CRUSH BOSS But i take it evrey "non" mission runner is blaming the mission runners for? It really is only a vocal whiny minority on these forums who think that the game would be better without all the mission runners or at least with all the missions in low sec/0.0, which largely amounts to the same thing. Basically its a case where all these whiners are saying is "play the game the way I want you to so I can shoot you. If I can't shoot you, don't play the game."
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.13 09:00:00 - [15] well the pirates drove the low sec missioners out and now are lacking targets trying to get at em in high sec ( the obsession with being top of the killbaord and having more killmails than youre corp buddy is also a factor) These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.13 09:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Originally by: Aslann Missioning sucks. Sucks ..... ?? u cant PVP 23/7 , have to get isk from somehwhere. some peeps make money to pvp, others pvp to make money, you know??? Yea i do know, ive been with goonswarm for a while now, but hey what we know about PVP ..lol We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Lygos Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 09:06:00 - [17] I don't like Skinnerian economies. (Ok I do, but only if the scientists are insane and their decisions make the test subjects curl up into little balls tightly wrapped around the tattered remnants of their confidence and dreams.) --- T2 Risk
Horatio Nately Caldari 808 Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.13 09:23:00 - [18] you forgot to include boredom. --------------------------------------- Implement Isk Stipends (no its not asking for your donations) Isk Stipends
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.13 09:24:00 - [19] Low sec gankbears *** and whine more than any other group in EVE. They want to force their playstyle on all others but as they are generally a bunch of wimps, they can't hack it in 0.0 (usually * about fleet battles not being 'their thing') They just want some nice easy ganks from defenceless mission runners in high sec. Have a look at all the threads, the mission runners just want to do their thing, the majority of 0.0 residents want to do their thing and all the low sec gankbears? yup, *** about the rest /sigh Only the rare uber-rich mission runners can make huge amounts of isk speed running missions, most of the rest just 'get by'. I would expect alot are just happy to do their thing (mission running) and nothing else. Some combine it with industry to get starting capital and materials, then just run missions in groups for fun while their industrial backbone grinds out the ships and isk. Shame CCP dont release ship lose stats, I would bet that ship losses in high sec mission running per day are many times more than all those across the whole of low sec and 0.0 in a week... High sec mission runners and industrialists are the ones buying all those uber expensive mods the gankbears and 0.0 residents are gathering, trying to oust your market is probably not a very wise thing? Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Clytamar	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:20:00 - [20] I don't care if mission runners are filthy rich and fly uber-ships with the rarest mods. Missioning is boring, at the end of the day. Very boring. There's so much more to EvE and much faster end interesting ways to make your billions. -- Zenud
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:23:00 - [21] I think alot of the dislike comes from the general mentality we see somtimes that full time mission runners have some god given right to grind missions with no risk from other players and yet keep all the rewards (mission rewards, loot, lp rewards etc). This of course is a generalisation but it's how most mission runners get perceived. G I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:25:00 - [22] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Originally by: Aslann Missioning sucks. Sucks ..... ?? u cant PVP 23/7 , have to get isk from somehwhere. I did a couple of lvl 4's the other day, made 5 million ISK an hour on bounties.. in RMR I'd easaly get 15 mil . Granted the ISK payout might be higher in lowsec due to LP offers but those missions are hardly 'risk free' nowadays.
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:26:00 - [23] Everyone's gotta blame someone. --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.
Nardon Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Clytamar I don't care if mission runners are filthy rich and fly uber-ships with the rarest mods. Missioning is boring, at the end of the day. Which can be said about every activity that you do repeat mindlessly. ^^
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Aslann Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Originally by: Aslann Missioning sucks. Sucks ..... ?? u cant PVP 23/7 , have to get isk from somehwhere. I did a couple of lvl 4's the other day, made 5 million ISK an hour on bounties.. in RMR I'd easaly get 15 mil . Granted the ISK payout might be higher in lowsec due to LP offers but those missions are hardly 'risk free' nowadays. Exactly, you can easily make more isk/hour by mining in high sec these days ... The only reason the gankbears what to nerf everyone else is to get at the nice faction/officer loot from the top mission runners and to extend their epeen (I'd wager they go into paroxysms of joy when they blow up a CNR) alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:44:00 - [26] I hate people who enjoy missions on principle. It's just wrong. Thing that bothers me about missions themselves is they are more than ISK faucets. There's stuff like research agents and stuff, and to get the good ones you have to grind stupid PvE. FFS. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:03:00 - [27] Well, whats wrong with missioning? They aren't that boring. I enjoy them "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Kuolematon Well, whats wrong with missioning? They aren't that boring. I enjoy them Go play (insert any other game with NPCs). Come back. Recoil in horror at the crapness of missions. Look at the sort of game Eve is and recoil in horror that there are even missions anyway. Repeat until you understand or have recoiled so much that you have backed into a table, chair, or other obstacle. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Crumplecorn Come back. Recoil in horror at the crapness of missions. Look at the sort of game Eve is and recoil in horror that there are even missions anyway. Been there, done that. I've played quite a few MMOs now, either as a subscriber or in beta, and while I would agree that Eve missions are not the best example of PvE in a MMO, they are far from the worst. This isn't to say that they couldn't be better i.e. tougher, more varied, but they are far from terrible and fit nicely into the Eve game setting.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:10:00 - [30] One of the main reasons I like mission (despite them being far from great PvE) is that I am a ship & fitting nerd. And missions allow me to TRY a new ship/fitting every day without having to BUY a new ship/fitting every day. And they are a nice playground for the faction stuff in my collection too which is fun to use but (for me) way to valuable both monetarily and emotionally (yes, I DO grow fond of my high end ships much like a real captain often does) to risk it in PvP. And I guess people like me are like epeenephrine to the average ADS-ridden gankbear in his endless search for superiority and the next kick... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Spuck	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Crumplecorn I hate people who enjoy missions on principle. It's just wrong. Thing that bothers me about missions themselves is they are more than ISK faucets. There's stuff like research agents and stuff, and to get the good ones you have to grind stupid PvE. FFS. nobody forces you to fly missions ! nobody cares if you like mission or not ! nobody cares if ya like em or not ! while EVERYBODY should just play like he wants to play !
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:20:00 - [32] Edited by: Too Kind on 13/12/2006 12:25:28 EVE is also an isk competition and many not so rich pvp'ers don't like to compete with PvE people, who make isk all day long and suffer almost no losses. Especially they hate farmers. To stay competitive as a pvp'er, I need to grind to raise my wallet like the mission runner and do some extra grinding to replace my losses. Looks like one needs to play 23/7 as a pvp'er to stay competive or needs to win the tech-2 lottery. So many pvp'er are poor, because their pve activity is to replace losses. The pure pve player becomes richer and richer, buys bpos and becomes even more rich and raises the prices on the market, which many pvp guys really don't like. Now they even want to get extra isk from us for rig-stuff. Kill 'em all ! I say. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:24:00 - [33] the problem with a lot of arguments about eve is that too many people confuse oppinion with fact. -NEVER CONFUSE OPPINION WITH FACT-
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:24:00 - [34] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/12/2006 12:27:08 Originally by: Spuck Originally by: Crumplecorn I hate people who enjoy missions on principle. It's just wrong. Thing that bothers me about missions themselves is they are more than ISK faucets. There's stuff like research agents and stuff, and to get the good ones you have to grind stupid PvE. FFS. nobody forces you to fly missions ! nobody cares if you like mission or not ! nobody cares if ya like em or not ! while EVERYBODY should just play like he wants to play ! 1. If I want a good research agent I have to grind missions. Thusly I am not interested in a good research agent (fortunately the lottery and invention are broken anyway, so I'm not missing much) 2. Nobody should care 3. Again, nobody should care Conversly, I don't care that no one cares, and I don't care that you do seem to care. There are many other groups of people in the world who I dislike in general, and they don't care either, but that doesn't stop me from disliking them, or from pointing it out when that group is the topic of discussion. Incidentally, did you miss the part where the OP actually asked why people hate mission runners? Your's is an odd response to someone merely answering a question. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Too Kind Edited by: Too Kind on 13/12/2006 12:20:40 EVE is also an isk competition and many not so rich pvp'ers don't like to compete with PvE people, who make isk all day long and suffer almost no losses. Especially they hate farmers. To stay competitive as a pvp'er, I need to grind to raise my wallet like the mission runner and do some extra grinding to relace my losses. Looks like one needs to play 23/7 as a pvp'er to stay competive or needs to win the tech-2 lottery. So many pvp'er are poor, because their pve activity is to replace losses. The pure pve player becomes richer and richer, buys bpos and becomes even more rich and raises the prices on the market, which many pvp guys really don't like. But the PvPer gets rewarded with the infinite fun that PvP always is, while the mission runner is stuck with the boring PvE (and according to most gankbears absolutely cannot have any fun). And is not fun the ultimate reward in any game? --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:26:00 - [36] Well alot of those posted here comes with reasons why missionrunners are getting it. As a missionrunner/industrialist... I can say that I do my missions in low sec and the risk there atleast before this patch are just stupidly high.... Before Kali atleast you had a chance to avoid pirates, yet I got frequently visited in my deadspacepocket by pirates. But living in low sec gives you a few clues on who to keep away and how to run the missions to be as safe as possible. Then the patch came and well ofcourse now they are fixing that mistake and hopefully missionrunners are returning to low sec. Problem is that the whining pirates are the same that always say when missionrunners complain "Adapt or die!!!" once the missionrunners addapted... the pipe got a different tone... "Missionrunners are without risk!!!!"... sorry pirates.. you forced the missionrunners to adapt, now it is time for pirates to adapt. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Vuller Hubris	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:30:00 - [37] I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod.
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:33:00 - [38] It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:34:00 - [39] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/12/2006 12:36:46 Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. It's because Eve has full on PvE and full on PvP with real true massively multiplayer aspects mixed in there too. It attracts such diverse people that you end up with groups of people who dislike people who play other games finding those people playing a different part of 'their' game. Your example of 'PvP' shows you are not immune to this yourself. But the problem isn't groups of people who dislike each other, that's normal and it's fine. It's the people who complain about the people who dislike them, attempting to denigrate them in the process. Like the mission runners in this thread. And, now, because of posting this, me. Vicious cycle, no? ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. Absolutely right.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Queen Hades It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf. a very small fig leaf hehehe -NEVER CONFUSE OPPINION WITH FACT-
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Queen Hades It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf. lol I mean, really, lol. On so many levels. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Jessica Lorelei Originally by: Queen Hades It's just the same mindless jealousy, intolerance and greed that makes our real world so often inhuman, cold and uncomfortable. There is no intelligent reason for this whole mission runner - bashing, it is pure malevolence. An exception to this are the representatives of the big alliances. They hate mission running because it takes off people they could otherwise use for their boring 23 / 7 gate camping and strip mining duty. This "omg Eve is a pvp game and I will show you that I'm the most uber leet noobh8er!!!1!" is nothing but a fig leaf. a very small fig leaf hehehe It's the same as with real life pimped car owners... a big fig leaf is most probably not needed anyway.
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:47:00 - [44] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Have i missed something over the last 3-4 years ? Maybe i have, i dont read or post much here, But i take it evrey "non" mission runner is blaming the mission runners for? A - the system LAG? B - The system congestion ? C - The fact that most of us have a full set of +5 implants? D - That we fly some of the most expensive ships with the best mods? E - that we have large ISK wallets? F - that CCP dropped the Salvage prereqs and we can salvage heaps of cool stuff to make rig mods? And just for the record some not all, use missions to fund the war machine ie PVP. Soooooo i say YAY for the mission runners... The rich get richer .... the poor get.... upset cause they have lag and noob ships with a civilian shield booster Well, i don't know about anyone else, since i am not them, but i personally don't hate mission runners. What i sure hate as hell is high sec. runners coming to the forums to whine to be absolutely safe withing mission pockets, even in high sec. In EVE you're not safe anywhere, see all the "tricks" to destroy and/or ransom people in high sec. that CCP, of course, has sanctioned as legit. Why missions should be any different at all? Specially when before Revelations, it was possible to scan a mission (however complicated it might have been ,it was possible), jump into it and do exactly all the same things that people now complain about. _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:47:00 - [45] Edited by: Victor Vision on 13/12/2006 12:51:01 Edited by: Victor Vision on 13/12/2006 12:50:10 Missions, NPC ratting, complex running, PvP, mining, production and trading are all parts of the game. It is surprising that a small, but vocal, minority of PvPers seem to have a problem with mission runners. I know a good amount of PvPers who purchase their isk. Legaly, via GTC, may I add. Personaly I prefer to keep playing in game and not spend additional RL money to buy equipment. For most people in alliances, that leaves Missions, NPC ratting, complex running, mining, production and trading to fund themselves. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
TheZiggy Caldari Star Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:11:00 - [46] I run quite a lot of lvl 4 missions, mainly for faction standing purposes. There are quite a few aspects of the game make good standings useful, such as refining and selling items on the market. While I have made quite a substantial amount of isk from running these missions, the first 6 months of the year I was doing a huge amount of tech 1 ship and module building, from which a much larger pile of isk was collected at the end of the day. Some of the missions are fairly boring, as someone said. Warp in-gank-loot/salvage (if you want)-go home. However some of them can be fun if you try different tactics from time to time. If it was totally boring what would be the point? As for the problem with people jumping in on someone's mission to attack them, is because of how fast someone can find you inside the mission. During the pvp tournament it was admitted that while yes it should be possible to scan someone down, it shouldn't be that quick. Thinking about though, on Angel Extravaganza room one could be quite a shock to a pirate if he warped in on you and got most of the spawn aggroed on them. It just a fact we have to deal with, that there will always be someone that whines about something else that other players do. I still wonder if there's a big group of players that don't dare to go anywhere with less than 0.5 security, even with warp to zero.
LynxArd UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:17:00 - [47] i use to speak to level 4 mission runners when i used to do them, a lot were or are pvpers earning enough to pvp, some taking a break from the pvp scene others changing there gamestyle etc etc, they allways helped the new mission runners. when u are at war in 0.0 its not easy to get time to rat and even then you either rat or pvp u cant setup a ship to do both efficiantly, so its more viable and a lot safer to run missions in empire, until ccp make a viable option for earning isk in 0.0 then it will be as it is, they keep nerfing missions players wont have the isk to buy ships to pvp, i firmly believe the problem lies at ccps feet to sort this, the nature of the game dictates its playstyle so to blame the players for having to earn isk in empire so they can pvp in 0.0 is crazy, the question that should be being asked is, why do they *have to go to that extreme in a game? ccp? as for pirates, nah the real pirates dont complain, its the lame pirates that need 10-1 odds and still fail that cry, unfortunately there are a lot of them, they want it all for 0 input, at least the mission runner puts effort in. at the end of the day its just a game, if i wanna pvp thats my choice, if i wanna mine or mission run or just sit in jita refreshing the market its all my choice, until CCP states otherwise i play my game how i wish, if people dont like it then they need to get a reality check, eve doesnt revolve around one type of player and it should never be that way. its a cold world until someone puts a laser up your intake.
zeroh Caldari V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:23:00 - [48] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS E - that we have large ISK wallets? lol how much can u make a day agent whoring in high sec 100m? 200m? a day ?
haniblecter	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:26:00 - [49] Mission runners contribute to empire lag. Empire should be for the few that reeeally cant handle risk or the very new. Everyone else should be in 00, makihng more ISK per hour for marginally more risk.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:37:00 - [50] Lets turn the question around? What risk does the pirates, "feeding" off belt ratters and mission runners, have? I would say that its the real 0 risk, great reward. When the pirate attacks, the victim is allready under fire and is straining his/hers tank. So, really, where is your risk? Concord? Don't do it in Empire. Low seceurity rating? That is not gonna kill you, unless you fail the point above. People hunting you? When hunted, you are not hunting. And why don't you just face them like you want your victims to do? (Above questions are not meant as bashing, but I really need an explanation)
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:51:00 - [51] Originally by: zeroh Originally by: CRUSH BOSS E - that we have large ISK wallets? lol how much can u make a day agent whoring in high sec 100m? 200m? a day ? If you play 23/7, yeah. Which means it is only a fraction of what you can make in 0.0 And besides, if pirates rather spend their time on destroying other peoples isk than creating their own, they should not blame others for their very own choice. Not to mention that if they are actually good at what they do, they destroy other peoples isk AND make their own too in the process. I guess the real problem is the many simpletons who actually fail at being good. And those are on both sides of the fense, the bad runners cry for invincibility, the bad pirates cry to have PvE players to be nothing but game content for them. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:52:00 - [52] Originally by: haniblecter Mission runners contribute to empire lag. Empire should be for the few that reeeally cant handle risk or the very new. Everyone else should be in 00, makihng more ISK per hour for marginally more risk. LOL How does gate camping contribute to income?
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Crumplecorn Conversly, I don't care that no one cares, and I don't care that you do seem to care. There are many other groups of people in the world who I dislike in general, and they don't care either, but that doesn't stop me from disliking them, or from pointing it out when that group is the topic of discussion. Quoted for being a well written piece of textual beauty.
Souvera Corvus Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/12/2006 12:36:46 Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. It's because Eve has full on PvE and full on PvP with real true massively multiplayer aspects mixed in there too. It attracts such diverse people that you end up with groups of people who dislike people who play other games finding those people playing a different part of 'their' game. Your example of 'PvP' shows you are not immune to this yourself. But the problem isn't groups of people who dislike each other, that's normal and it's fine. It's the people who complain about the people who dislike them, attempting to denigrate them in the process. Like the mission runners in this thread. And, now, because of posting this, me. Vicious cycle, no? Vicious circle? Potentially yes, but then I would never campaign for the styles of play that I don't particularly enjoy to be banned or to be schemed out of the game. "If man does not know to which port he is sailing, no wind is favourable"
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:14:00 - [55] Edited by: CRUSH BOSS on 14/12/2006 00:17:21 How many mission runners actualy go beyond the Flashing red targets and survey the enviroment around them, I have found some amazing "secrets" CCP arnt just going to give you every thing served on a platter, Take a moment to look around, you might get a plesant suprise. I know i have. When doing missions now days, instead of 5 of us doing 5 seperate missions (LVL 4) all 5 of us do the one mission, Every ship fitted to do is seperate thing and not all combat ready. The riches go far beyond the Blast every thing to hell and get another mission. So Ship1 the "tank" this guys take all the fire power and more :) and proberl;y has the most expensive ship ie somewhere in the cost of 5-6 Billion isk. Then you have the 2 PVP - PVE ships thiese are the 2 ships that hold the Pirates at bay in low sec, and also can give the support role to the TANK if things run into trouble, also being quite capable of taking down PVE enemys. The survey and salvage ship, usualy the flycatcher, great salvage ship indeed, all this guy or gal :) does if pick up loot and rig parts. Last but not least the Strip miner... yep thats right, but im not going into that. So you say missions are boaring, Rinse repeat yea they proberly would. SO you have PVE, PVP (in low sec) Support, combat tactics. Mining and Exploration .... and you guys say its boaring.. pffft....with no REAL LOSS .. LOL tell that to me when a pirate band ang LAG takes your TANK ship out. no real loss indeed. We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2006.12.14 00:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust In fact I would dare say that mission running really has no risk. As opposed to the risk of, say, a battleship locking down an industrial ship? As opposed to the risk of, say, PvPers wardeccing industrial corps? As opposed to the risk of, say, 'hardcore' mercs wardeccing noob corps? As opposed to the risk of, say, people logging off in PvP combat to save their ship? According to the above quote no mission runner should ever lose a ship past their first few level 1 missions (enough to learn the ins and outs of them).
Soporo	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:03:00 - [57] To the Op. They are angry that they cant insta-scan/gank LowSec missioners now. Quinn in another thread pretty much summed it up. Quote: They are not "pvpers" they are gankbears complaining about the loss of their easy prey. There are plenty of opportunities for non-consensual PvP in this game. Get a group of 2-3 pirates together and run quick strikes against 0.0 alliances. Tons of targets. Declare an empire war against a major alliance. Again, tons of targets. Join an alliance, become a merc corp, just head to 0.0 and start shooting folk.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:22:00 - [58] I have a slight dislike for mission runners.. My reasons are not very original, for me it comes down to the whole risk/efford VS reward thing like with many people. Mission runners have it easy compared to the rest of the player popuation when it comes to making isk, they simply have to shoot at something, and they get money in their wallets for it, and since the NPC's are so predictable, and other players cant directly touch them, they can pimp out their ships with the most rediculously priced mods to make it even easier. The rest of us.. Miners have to find the ore, mine it, transport it, then refine it, and possibly transport it yet again. There is alot more involved than simply clicking twice and pressing F1 trough F8 to get that donation to your wallet as a miner. In low sec solo mining is just not done, you NEED others, which you dont for most lvl4 missions. Ratters.. well i cant imagine any serious ratters operating in highsec, the risks of lowsec are well documented so i'll leave that up to your imagination. Pirates.. well from what i understand making money as a pirate is quite hard, you have to deal with a hostile.. human target, other pirates, anti pirates, alliances.. while you f* up your sec rating, they are faced with targets that just wont pay the ransom, theres alot of risk, and not always a reward. So yeah, i believe missioners have it quite easy.. too easy, which kind of annoys me, and i imagine the same is true for others. If i'm missing something, feel free to englighten me. Originally by:** Deja Thoris The dead horse has now been flogged into puree.
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Crumplecorn I hate people who enjoy missions on principle. It's just wrong. I believe no comment is necessary after this thoughtful and well documented reply. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Hephaesteus Gallente PILGRIMS Insane Asylum	Posted - 2006.12.14 02:09:00 - [60] Originally by: Clytamar I don't care if mission runners are filthy rich and fly uber-ships with the rarest mods. Missioning is boring, at the end of the day. Very boring. There's so much more to EvE and much faster end interesting ways to make your billions. -- Zenud In your opinion. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Exlegion Caldari Legion's Knight	Posted - 2006.12.14 02:40:00 - [61] From many of the responses I've seen on the forums it boils down to something like this: "Players that do missions are making more isk than me, but I don't want to do missions because they're boring. Therefore, missions should be removed from the game." Mind you, anyone that has actually done missions post-RMR knows there's very little to be made in high sec. In short, missioners run missions because they enjoy it and just want to log in without having to be hassled. If you're looking for a reasonable and sensible explanation as to why the hate I'm afraid you won't find one.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.14 02:45:00 - [62] The strange part is I suspect that "pure mission runners", just like "pure PvPers" or "pure" anything else, are so rare in EvE as to be almost a myth. Most EvE players - either via multiple accounts, alts, or simply during different phases of their EvE lives - probably sample all EvE has to offer in the way of activities. The problem comes from a very small section of players who only want to do one thing in EvE and then expect the game to revolve around that activity (and therefore them). Thus the purist mission runner demands to be allowed to do nothing but run their missions when and where they like without anyone else being allow to interfer in any way. Thus the purist combat PvPer demands that everyone be forced to PvP all the time so that they are kept entertained. Thus the 0.0 alliance purist demands that Empire be nerfed until everyone is forced into 0.0 where they can contribute to their game. The vast bulk of EvE players have a live and let live attitude, by which I mean they accept that everyone who plays EvE has the right to enjoy any activity they want as long as it is within the spirit of the game. Hence the vast bulk of EvE players are concerned only with balancing different activities within EvE. The purists are not interested in balance and instead expect their "choice" in EvE to be favoured above all others. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.14 03:23:00 - [63] Missions are a way to get isk to replace a covert ops ship, the covert ops cloak, and the full set of Halo implants... /me grinds out more missions.. 1/16th the way there! In regards to the RMS chat, in efforts to look cool and hip, people using the 1337 speak look like ignorant morons from WoW.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.14 03:57:00 - [64] I don't think anyone really hates Misson runners or gives them much thought. However, after the Rev patch was put in they all came to these forums and whined, kicked and screamed about the easier probing and scanning and it annoyed the rest of the playerbase because Mission Running is the one profession in the game where you could do it until your fingers fall off with virtually zero risk. The only risk at all is losing ships to NPCs during the missions and if that is costing you more money than you are making, it is time to look for a new profession. When the carebears whined about some risk being injected into their profession, most people got irritated and that is what started the flames. Even Mining has more risk than missions as you always have to be on the lookout for pirates and people messing with your cans ect. Plus Mining is generally less profitable for the time you put in. Especially if you are a noob miner like me. So to sum it up, nobody cared until they all came to the forums to whine about their "isk fountains" becoming more risky. Then came the "let us play our way and you play your way" garbage.....which IS garbage considering this isn't a game where the populations are or should be segragated.
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Feng Schui Missions are a way to get isk to replace a covert ops ship, the covert ops cloak, and the full set of Halo implants... /me grinds out more missions.. 1/16th the way there! I hope you mean snakes, or you're fired. And as for mission runners, no issue with them - I do have an issue with people trying to obstruct reasonable balancing efforts towards any profession, including their own, by incessant and incoherent fearmongering. Everyone should pretty much be forced to a similar level of non-consentual interaction, whether they decide to mine, belt or mission. I won't even dispute that the current mission format can make it a bit tedious to be messed with, but short of a few respawn fixes and mission-specific items being locked there is no excuse for any sort of special protection.
Exlegion Caldari Legion's Knight	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:14:00 - [66] Originally by: Maximillian Pele The strange part is I suspect that "pure mission runners", just like "pure PvPers" or "pure" anything else, are so rare in EvE as to be almost a myth. Most EvE players - either via multiple accounts, alts, or simply during different phases of their EvE lives - probably sample all EvE has to offer in the way of activities. The problem comes from a very small section of players who only want to do one thing in EvE and then expect the game to revolve around that activity (and therefore them). Thus the purist mission runner demands to be allowed to do nothing but run their missions when and where they like without anyone else being allow to interfer in any way. Thus the purist combat PvPer demands that everyone be forced to PvP all the time so that they are kept entertained. Thus the 0.0 alliance purist demands that Empire be nerfed until everyone is forced into 0.0 where they can contribute to their game. The vast bulk of EvE players have a live and let live attitude, by which I mean they accept that everyone who plays EvE has the right to enjoy any activity they want as long as it is within the spirit of the game. Hence the vast bulk of EvE players are concerned only with balancing different activities within EvE. The purists are not interested in balance and instead expect their "choice" in EvE to be favoured above all others. I don't think PVE'ers are looking to be 100% safe. I certainly don't believe we should be. Imagine if you will, carebears upset at 0.0 space and demanding it to be safe from PVP. Or demanding that 0.0 be turned into high sec empire protected by Concord. Although there might be a few of these people I don't see many posts chanting for such ideas. On the other hand, I see posts on the forums almost on a daily basis bashing mission runners and empire. Reasons? "Missions are boring, please nerf!!!" (seems to be the favorite chant), "Missioners make too much money", "Missions were never intended to be part of the game", "EVE is PVP, not PVE", "I can't find targets anymore, send carebears, plzkthxbye!!!". Then you have the exploit of game mechanics for the sole purpose of griefing, steal critical loot or aggro entire spawns just for kicks, nothing to be gained. Again, for someone to suggest that EVE be turned into a PVE game is just as extreme and ludicrous. However, I agree with you in that most players have a "live and let live" mentality, including missioners and PVE'ers. I certainly believe that there is a place for pirates and PVP'ers in this game. But there seems to be a small and very vocal minority which would be more than happy to see "carebears" cancel their subscriptions from EVE because there simply is no room between their playstyle and others'.
St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:19:00 - [67] I mission run a lot I do it mainly because i enjoy the activity. Its farly predictable and safe no player rats i can test setups on them and i get some good loot. Also i find that as my faction rating rises i get better NPC services that cost less and reduce the ammount they take from me in tax. As for the rewards they ahve definatly gone down since i really started missioning for example once i could sell a level 3 implant for say 25 million a pop now id be lucky to get 10 million. Also the mission rewards rarly tops 1 million isk in total even for level 4 missions. Unless of course its a Combat missin then sometimes the reward reaches 2 million. As for the rat bounties in level 4 missions then you can get a few million but no more usually than 8 million unless its a serpentis extravaganza. As for why people post in these forums concerning mission runners id say the real reason boils down to the following.... 1. Recently CCP has introduced warp to 0km limiting there gate ganking opertunities. What they forget here is that ccp also fixed Warp stabs and that travel was boring and very unpopular compared to now. 2. They feel that mission running is one of the amin reasons for lag in eve. This is only partly true but not the only caise of course. After all recently an alliance talked about how they fought over 2 days to set up an out post repeatedly talking about how there fights were crashing eve's nodes and not seeming to mind that they were doing thios and even using it as a tactic. Another cause of lag apart from blobs is of course the programming of eve itself which i can happily say ccp is fixing. 3. Mission runners are not as vocal as Carebear gankers who live in empire so of course the carebeargankers are very vocal about it making this a bigger problem than it really is. I persoanlly feel mission running adds a much needed PvE component in a game that is pretty crap at this area of online gaming and its a great content for those who want a break from corp life and groupe work. True this is a MMORPG which entails groupe activaties but in all reallity we DO need at elast some good solo content so we can cater to all player styles and needs. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:20:00 - [68] i love how those that have no clue about misson running complain bout no risk. every time i do a lvl 4 misson I take a chance, you never know whats gonna happen, go ld.. loose the ship, dones dont do what you say and get blown up, aggro the whole stage... might loose the ship to npc's that warp scramble you, web you, jam you and NOS you. If i loose my ship i loose 1-2 billion. having your drones aggro a whole stage of a tough lvl 4 and having to tank 6bs's 30 cruisers, 10+ frigs that was warp scrambling, webbing, and nosing you while you pick them off one at a time all for what? maybe 5 mill total in an hour. thats risk. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:26:00 - [69] Originally by: Gonada i love how those that have no clue about misson running complain bout no risk. every time i do a lvl 4 misson I take a chance, you never know whats gonna happen, go ld.. loose the ship, dones dont do what you say and get blown up, aggro the whole stage... might loose the ship to npc's that warp scramble you, web you, jam you and NOS you. If i loose my ship i loose 1-2 billion. having your drones aggro a whole stage of a tough lvl 4 and having to tank 6bs's 30 cruisers, 10+ frigs that was warp scrambling, webbing, and nosing you while you pick them off one at a time all for what? maybe 5 mill total in an hour. thats risk. Yea there is risk in missions especially the ones ccp ahve hardened tho they are still predictable im sure. And the cash rewards and loot is pitifull. I really only do them for the faction and the agent offers for example. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:45:00 - [70] funny, I make much more mining in 0.0 than level 4 missions, and I have lost a lot more ships mission running than mining.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:50:00 - [71] Originally by: Gonada i love how those that have no clue about misson running complain bout no risk. every time i do a lvl 4 misson I take a chance, you never know whats gonna happen, go ld.. loose the ship, dones dont do what you say and get blown up, aggro the whole stage... might loose the ship to npc's that warp scramble you, web you, jam you and NOS you. If i loose my ship i loose 1-2 billion. having your drones aggro a whole stage of a tough lvl 4 and having to tank 6bs's 30 cruisers, 10+ frigs that was warp scrambling, webbing, and nosing you while you pick them off one at a time all for what? maybe 5 mill total in an hour. thats risk. I admit I am somewhat clueless about Mission Running because the highest I ever took it for myself was lvl 2's in a Crusier so i never attempted the harder levels and the NPCs which can warp scram and all that stuff. However, I find it hard to believe that "Drones not working correctly" or whatever is such a risk or problem that it stops people from wanting to do missions and they are still one of the safer( or safest } professions in EvE and I agree with those who say the risk/reward compared to other things in the game isn't balanced out. That being said, I agree the Pirates and other whiners are just as bad with their complaints.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.14 04:52:00 - [72] Originally by: Audri Fisher funny, I make much more mining in 0.0 than level 4 missions, and I have lost a lot more ships mission running than mining. Details??? Nice blanket statement. Do you mine in a 0.0 system with your corp buddies protecting you? Yeah I could out gain mission runners too that way.
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:01:00 - [73] Originally by: Gonada i love how those that have no clue about misson running complain bout no risk. every time i do a lvl 4 misson I take a chance, you never know whats gonna happen, go ld.. loose the ship, dones dont do what you say and get blown up, aggro the whole stage... might loose the ship to npc's that warp scramble you, web you, jam you and NOS you. If i loose my ship i loose 1-2 billion. having your drones aggro a whole stage of a tough lvl 4 and having to tank 6bs's 30 cruisers, 10+ frigs that was warp scrambling, webbing, and nosing you while you pick them off one at a time all for what? maybe 5 mill total in an hour. thats risk. Amen to that.!!!!!! We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:04:00 - [74] If you are constantly losing ships in missions, you have more problems than a pirate scanning you out to steal your mission specific loot. I would say try Mining or Trading.
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:06:00 - [75] You got to make money somehow, and missions have the highest profit/fun factor, unless your corp gives free ships you got to do what you got to do.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:12:00 - [76] I am also curious to why someone loses 1-2 billion when someone loses their ship in missions like the guy a few posts up claimed? Do you really need a 2 billion isk ship/mods to do a mission?
Nodal Zone	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:29:00 - [77] Originally by: Xavier Raines Edited by: Xavier Raines on 14/12/2006 05:12:54 I am also curious to how someone loses 1-2 billion when they lose their ship in missions like the guy a few posts up claimed? Do you really need a 2 billion isk ship/mods to do a mission? To successfully tank some of the level 4 missions with one ship, yes.
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:30:00 - [78] Yeay mission runners.. I run and produce and I donate over 150million ISK a week. ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.14 05:37:00 - [79] Originally by: Nodal Zone Originally by: Xavier Raines Edited by: Xavier Raines on 14/12/2006 05:12:54 I am also curious to how someone loses 1-2 billion when they lose their ship in missions like the guy a few posts up claimed? Do you really need a 2 billion isk ship/mods to do a mission? To successfully tank some of the level 4 missions with one ship, yes. Seriously? I am glad I went into mining then...lol
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.14 06:03:00 - [80] Originally by: Xavier Raines Originally by: Audri Fisher funny, I make much more mining in 0.0 than level 4 missions, and I have lost a lot more ships mission running than mining. Details??? Nice blanket statement. Do you mine in a 0.0 system with your corp buddies protecting you? Yeah I could out gain mission runners too that way. 22 mil/hour mining crokite.
Hesed Hamartia.	Posted - 2006.12.14 06:13:00 - [81] Merchants, and Pirates and people who earn their living from pvp bear the brunt of maintaining the illusion of a zero sum gain game. Meanwhile, carebears rummage with mindless greed in the sack of infinity all day long. I hate them. Luckily, they're all completely over-civilized, and the shock of barbarianism makes them easy marks. Most of them don't even pause to ponder their position in the scheme of things. It's not that they don't have all the answers, it's that they haven't come to grips with asking the questions.
Trotski II Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2006.12.14 06:14:00 - [82] I hate mission runners because i hate myself.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.12.14 08:57:00 - [83] Its partially because people with large disposable incomes and little to no sense drive up the cost of certain vessels, pushing them well out of the reach of a humble belt pirate like myself. Its also partially because of the reactions of a (not so) few hi-sec mission runners when they are faced with any sort of risk.They whine.Then they whine some more.Then anyone who apposes them has their real-life activities questioned.Then they whine some more.Then (the worst thing) they make me feel like whining I think my disgust with hi-sec mission runners reached its peak when some new missions were introduced/existing missions were changed.There was a long thread in the mission forum of the little 's whining because these were not properly documented so actually provided some challenge and risk. My response, now as then, is ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Wolfmoon	Posted - 2006.12.14 09:29:00 - [84] All these threads seem to go in the same direction. You can word it any way you want, but unless CCP suddenly doesn't care about revenue they aren't going to force people out of high sec so you can eat their lunch. Sorry. oh...no I'm not.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.12.14 09:33:00 - [85] Originally by: Wolfmoon All these threads seem to go in the same direction. You can word it any way you want, but unless CCP suddenly doesn't care about revenue they aren't going to force people out of high sec so you can eat their lunch. Sorry. oh...no I'm not. ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Razor Jaxx Fate.	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:06:00 - [86] As a 0.0 pilot, I'm in sheer awe of mission runners. I mean, come on, face it. At worst I'm going to fight 2, 3 maybe 4 other players on my own, and that's only 50% of the time. The other 50% I'm on the outnumbering side (known as ganks). But these mission runners, they have balls of STEEL. They take on 10, 15, sometimes 20 BATTLESHIPS on their own, and I'm not even counting support !!! And those guys doing it in high-sec, now they are really the ultimate PWN. Come on, those rats they're fighting have either snuck by or beaten the crap out of CONCORD to get to high-sec in the first place - you know how tough that is? You ever tried to survive CONCORD as a criminal? So the PWNAGE FACTOR here is really simple : High-sec mission runner > High-sec elite rat > CONCORD > Player pirate > 0.0 pilot (hell, we're scared of sentries, that's why we don't go into empire) So, yeah mission runners deserve the rewards, the standings & sec increase, the high-end implants and the faction ships. It's only fair they get to salvage more stuff and be the prime beneficiaries of the rig market. Hell, if it was up to me, they should erect a statue in Jita to commemorate "The Unknown Mission Runner". /me bows Fate kills
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:51:00 - [87] Originally by: Razor Jaxx As a 0.0 pilot, I'm in sheer awe of mission runners. I mean, come on, face it. At worst I'm going to fight 2, 3 maybe 4 other players on my own, and that's only 50% of the time. The other 50% I'm on the outnumbering side (known as ganks). But these mission runners, they have balls of STEEL. They take on 10, 15, sometimes 20 BATTLESHIPS on their own, and I'm not even counting support !!! And those guys doing it in high-sec, now they are really the ultimate PWN. Come on, those rats they're fighting have either snuck by or beaten the crap out of CONCORD to get to high-sec in the first place - you know how tough that is? You ever tried to survive CONCORD as a criminal? So the PWNAGE FACTOR here is really simple : High-sec mission runner > High-sec elite rat > CONCORD > Player pirate > 0.0 pilot (hell, we're scared of sentries, that's why we don't go into empire) So, yeah mission runners deserve the rewards, the standings & sec increase, the high-end implants and the faction ships. It's only fair they get to salvage more stuff and be the prime beneficiaries of the rig market. Hell, if it was up to me, they should erect a statue in Jita to commemorate "The Unknown Mission Runner". /me bows QFFT ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Majutsu Caldari S.Y.N.D	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:17:00 - [88] The argument will never end. I've run missions, enjoyed them at first, made some ISK, rapidly got bored after being able to AFK level 3's, haven't bothered trying level 4's. Just more of the same. Now I live in a 0.1 system, quite well populated, policed by player corps, raided by pirates, swept clean by pirate hunters. It's fun, I enjoy it, I get at thrill I never got from missions, I don't care about having a huge wallet, I usually have a few hundred mill ISK and that's plenty for my purposes. We fight those who come to raid us, we win and shout with joy, we lose and come roaring back with anger (lost a Brutix to a CTD yesterday, ** happens). This is how (for now) I enjoy playing Eve, I enjoyed missions for while, I'm enjoying this now, I will enjoy alliance war in 0.0 (a move I will make at some point). Basically, I have fun playing how I want play, I don't care how other people play, and can't for the life of me understand why other people care what others do. I'm no pirate, however I admire what many of them do. And I don't mean those who whine on here about being unable to trap high level mission runners in low sec. I mean the real pirates, those who hunt in gangs, who come to our system to destroy the covetors that mine for Zydrine there, those who we fight short, sharp battles with protecting our area and our assets. Never see those people whining on here. I've died by their hand, I've killed in retribution, long may it continue. Ummm, there was a point to my post when I started it, but I don't remember what it was now so I'm just ranting. Oh yeah, that was it, let them run their missions, who cares, really. Caldari Gunboat Pilot**
Apollo Balthar Minmatar The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:22:00 - [89] Originally by: Razor Jaxx As a 0.0 pilot, I'm in sheer awe of mission runners. I mean, come on, face it. At worst I'm going to fight 2, 3 maybe 4 other players on my own, and that's only 50% of the time. The other 50% I'm on the outnumbering side (known as ganks). But these mission runners, they have balls of STEEL. They take on 10, 15, sometimes 20 BATTLESHIPS on their own, and I'm not even counting support !!! And those guys doing it in high-sec, now they are really the ultimate PWN. Come on, those rats they're fighting have either snuck by or beaten the crap out of CONCORD to get to high-sec in the first place - you know how tough that is? You ever tried to survive CONCORD as a criminal? So the PWNAGE FACTOR here is really simple : High-sec mission runner > High-sec elite rat > CONCORD > Player pirate > 0.0 pilot (hell, we're scared of sentries, that's why we don't go into empire) So, yeah mission runners deserve the rewards, the standings & sec increase, the high-end implants and the faction ships. It's only fair they get to salvage more stuff and be the prime beneficiaries of the rig market. Hell, if it was up to me, they should erect a statue in Jita to commemorate "The Unknown Mission Runner". /me bows I sense a certain amount of sarcasme ------------------------------------------------ WTS: tech2 clue
Oosel Nightmare Holdings	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:55:00 - [90] Originally by: Exlegion From many of the responses I've seen on the forums it boils down to something like this: "Players that do missions are making more isk than me, but I don't want to do missions because they're boring. Therefore, missions should be removed from the game." Mind you, anyone that has actually done missions post-RMR knows there's very little to be made in high sec. In short, missioners run missions because they enjoy it and just want to log in without having to be hassled. If you're looking for a reasonable and sensible explanation as to why the hate I'm afraid you won't find one. well said that man i mission in a carrier and people call me for it but you know what thats how i want to play it and if i can pull every trick in the book to avoid it i will because i dont and never will pvp
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.12.14 13:38:00 - [91] Originally by: Razor Jaxx As a 0.0 pilot, I'm in sheer awe of mission runners. I mean, come on, face it. At worst I'm going to fight 2, 3 maybe 4 other players on my own, and that's only 50% of the time. The other 50% I'm on the outnumbering side (known as ganks). But these mission runners, they have balls of STEEL. They take on 10, 15, sometimes 20 BATTLESHIPS on their own, and I'm not even counting support !!! And those guys doing it in high-sec, now they are really the ultimate PWN. Come on, those rats they're fighting have either snuck by or beaten the crap out of CONCORD to get to high-sec in the first place - you know how tough that is? You ever tried to survive CONCORD as a criminal? So the PWNAGE FACTOR here is really simple : High-sec mission runner > High-sec elite rat > CONCORD > Player pirate > 0.0 pilot (hell, we're scared of sentries, that's why we don't go into empire) So, yeah mission runners deserve the rewards, the standings & sec increase, the high-end implants and the faction ships. It's only fair they get to salvage more stuff and be the prime beneficiaries of the rig market. Hell, if it was up to me, they should erect a statue in Jita to commemorate "The Unknown Mission Runner". /me bows omg I love your posting. /me being a mission runner.
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2006.12.15 00:31:00 - [92] Originally by: Tasuric Orka I have a slight dislike for mission runners.. My reasons are not very original, for me it comes down to the whole risk/efford VS reward thing like with many people. Mission runners have it easy compared to the rest of the player popuation when it comes to making isk, they simply have to shoot at something, and they get money in their wallets for it, and since the NPC's are so predictable, and other players cant directly touch them, they can pimp out their ships with the most rediculously priced mods to make it even easier. The rest of us.. Miners have to find the ore, mine it, transport it, then refine it, and possibly transport it yet again. There is alot more involved than simply clicking twice and pressing F1 trough F8 to get that donation to your wallet as a miner. In low sec solo mining is just not done, you NEED others, which you dont for most lvl4 missions. Ratters.. well i cant imagine any serious ratters operating in highsec, the risks of lowsec are well documented so i'll leave that up to your imagination. Pirates.. well from what i understand making money as a pirate is quite hard, you have to deal with a hostile.. human target, other pirates, anti pirates, alliances.. while you f*** up your sec rating, they are faced with targets that just wont pay the ransom, theres alot of risk, and not always a reward. So yeah, i believe missioners have it quite easy.. too easy, which kind of annoys me, and i imagine the same is true for others. If i'm missing something, feel free to englighten me. You misunderstand or never run missions, I run lvl4 and some lvl3 missions solo and it's hard work, I use a HAC with a full T2 setup and I can still run into trouble. Sometimes I need to drop a mission because I can't tank and fight the NPC's or my agent sends me to some 0.0 system to deliver a doll for his nice! . High sec mining work is easy and very risk free, I'm also a hardened miner, I spent a day mining Omber for Isogen in 0.6 systems and got about 20mils worth for just sitting in a belt (you can find those anywhere), today I ran a lvl3 1 to 5 story misison and all I got for 2 hours work was 5mil.
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.01.31 03:06:00 - [93] Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. LOL! Listen to yourself. You don't understand why anyone would want to dictate their style on someone else's play style yet you come to the C&P forums and try to flex your muscles against the Pirates there. Plank of wood out of your eye first, then splinter out of ours m8. Damn hypocrite. And you're 2 months old to boot? Come to my system Hagilur and I'll give you a nice introduction of my play style.
Karille Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.31 03:19:00 - [94] Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. LOL! Listen to yourself. You don't understand why anyone would want to dictate their style on someone else's play style yet you come to the C&P forums and try to flex your muscles against the Pirates there. Plank of wood out of your eye first, then splinter out of ours m8. Damn hypocrite. And you're 2 months old to boot? Come to my system Hagilur and I'll give you a nice introduction of my play style. Lol look at yourself, replying to a post over a month old. _________________________________________________________
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.01.31 03:20:00 - [95] Originally by: Karille Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. LOL! Listen to yourself. You don't understand why anyone would want to dictate their style on someone else's play style yet you come to the C&P forums and try to flex your muscles against the Pirates there. Plank of wood out of your eye first, then splinter out of ours m8. Damn hypocrite. And you're 2 months old to boot? Come to my system Hagilur and I'll give you a nice introduction of my play style. Lol look at yourself, replying to a post over a month old. Ohhh MC is smacking now. Does this mean you have our contract?
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.01.31 03:22:00 - [96] Originally by: Karille Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. LOL! Listen to yourself. You don't understand why anyone would want to dictate their style on someone else's play style yet you come to the C&P forums and try to flex your muscles against the Pirates there. Plank of wood out of your eye first, then splinter out of ours m8. Damn hypocrite. And you're 2 months old to boot? Come to my system Hagilur and I'll give you a nice introduction of my play style. Lol look at yourself, replying to a post over a month old. In addition, the time of his post is irrelevant to me. I can dig up all his historical posts and bash them all if I want. I just can't understand how some complete nub has the audacity to start smacking on topics he doesn't understand.
CmdrThor	Posted - 2007.01.31 05:34:00 - [97] I spend most of my playtime doing missions, yet I earn 80% of my ISK by playing the market. The moral of the story: nerf the market!
grappler Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.01.31 06:58:00 - [98] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust Considering the hazards of 0.0 space, mission running is far superior to ratting in 0.0 . I always felt more secure in .0 rattin that in empire mining or running missions. In empire you dont know who is going to try and jump you in a belt or scan you down in a mission, In .0 if they arent blue they are red no guessing involved
Meng Wei	Posted - 2007.01.31 07:22:00 - [99] Where do you suppose the pvpers get their stuff? they don't spontaniously appear, they come from other people, and where did the other people get their stuff? npcs. without mission runners there won't be pvp, because nobody will be able to afford anything and they will be forced to do missions themselves to replace the ship they just lost. oh and missioning is far more profitable than any other profession. missioning for a week at 2 hours a day gets me a billion, more than enough to throw away a couple fully fitted hacs.
J Valkor	Posted - 2007.01.31 07:30:00 - [100] Why do you care if the people after your blood hate you? It seems... natural.
Oro Masut Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.31 07:53:00 - [101] Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Karille Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Vuller Hubris I the short time I've played this game (Which, in anticipation of juvenile flame, doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about it)I've been struck by just how much resentment of other people's playing style there is in it compared to other online games I've played. Quite why anyone would want to dictate how anyone else plays the game is beyond me on the basis that those who play it play it the way the game mechanics were designed to allow them to. So mission running is as much a part of the game as the practice of lurking in a ten player gate-camp waiting for a velator to show up and then bragging about how much of a 'real man' you are on the forums when you popped the poor noob's pod. LOL! Listen to yourself. You don't understand why anyone would want to dictate their style on someone else's play style yet you come to the C&P forums and try to flex your muscles against the Pirates there. Plank of wood out of your eye first, then splinter out of ours m8. Damn hypocrite. And you're 2 months old to boot? Come to my system Hagilur and I'll give you a nice introduction of my play style. Lol look at yourself, replying to a post over a month old. In addition, the time of his post is irrelevant to me. I can dig up all his historical posts and bash them all if I want. I just can't understand how some complete nub has the audacity to start smacking on topics he doesn't understand. I am reading his post now for the fourth time, and still the "smack" eludes me. He is just stating his opinion. Completely idiotic reply on your part, Slice. Playing this game for (insert No. of years here) doesn't make your opinion any more valid, than the views of a 2 month old. WCS gimps your fighting abilty. Make your choice BEFORE you undock. Do not complain about a lost ship ever, if you fit for running and go fighting with it
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 08:51:00 - [102] Being a PVP player or a PVE player is a matter of conditioning. Highsec is like a donut shop in the center of a marine base. The donut shop is open 24 hours and the donuts are free, so people stay in the donut shop and have no incentive to come out. As a result the donut shop is overflowing with obese people pretending to be Marines. High Sec = Donut Shop Missions = Donuts People need to be CONDITIONED to interact, they need to be CONDITIONED to accept danger without stress. PVP is a LEARNED behavior. Missions discourage players from becoming conditioned for PVP.
General Grevous Caldari The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.01.31 09:49:00 - [103] Edited by: General Grevous on 31/01/2007 09:48:31 Edited by: General Grevous on 31/01/2007 09:46:43 I have to say i dont think thats a fair statement. i am starting to edge more to PvP but i need an income to offset the massive losses i am gonna incurr whilst i learn to PvP and be able to accept that i will loose some expensive stuff. does this make me bad for wanting to do missions? if u think the mission loot/lp/rewards is all that why dont u just do the pirate versions yourselves? wont u get access to faction bp's that are worth more than most ships i can be offered in empire? why do u care so much what other people do with their time? Chiiiil Wiiiinnnnston Noob since november 05
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.01.31 09:58:00 - [104] Originally by: Majutsu The argument will never end. I've run missions, enjoyed them at first, made some ISK, rapidly got bored after being able to AFK level 3's, haven't bothered trying level 4's. Just more of the same. Now I live in a 0.1 system, quite well populated, policed by player corps, raided by pirates, swept clean by pirate hunters. It's fun, I enjoy it, I get at thrill I never got from missions, I don't care about having a huge wallet, I usually have a few hundred mill ISK and that's plenty for my purposes. We fight those who come to raid us, we win and shout with joy, we lose and come roaring back with anger (lost a Brutix to a CTD yesterday, ** happens). This is how (for now) I enjoy playing Eve, I enjoyed missions for while, I'm enjoying this now, I will enjoy alliance war in 0.0 (a move I will make at some point). Basically, I have fun playing how I want play, I don't care** how other people play, and can't for the life of me understand why other people care what others do. I'm no pirate, however I admire what many of them do. And I don't mean those who whine on here about being unable to trap high level mission runners in low sec. I mean the real pirates, those who hunt in gangs, who come to our system to destroy the covetors that mine for Zydrine there, those who we fight short, sharp battles with protecting our area and our assets. Never see those people whining on here. I've died by their hand, I've killed in retribution, long may it continue. Ummm, there was a point to my post when I started it, but I don't remember what it was now so I'm just ranting. Oh yeah, that was it, let them run their missions, who cares, really. Thread winner. ------------------- Ignorance
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.31 10:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Xavier Raines I don't think anyone really hates Misson runners or gives them much thought. However, after the Rev patch was put in they all came to these forums and whined, kicked and screamed about the easier probing and scanning and it annoyed the rest of the playerbase because Mission Running is the one profession in the game where you could do it until your fingers fall off with virtually zero risk. The only risk at all is losing ships to NPCs during the missions and if that is costing you more money than you are making, it is time to look for a new profession. When the carebears whined about some risk being injected into their profession, most people got irritated and that is what started the flames. Even Mining has more risk than missions as you always have to be on the lookout for pirates and people messing with your cans ect. Plus Mining is generally less profitable for the time you put in. Especially if you are a noob miner like me. So to sum it up, nobody cared until they all came to the forums to whine about their "isk fountains" becoming more risky. Then came the "let us play our way and you play your way" garbage.....which IS garbage considering this isn't a game where the populations are or should be segragated. Not to be offensive, but you are suffering of some sort of retrospective blindness. i have seen the first threads about "nerf mission" in may, and that only because I have started reading regurarly the forum in may. I am sure that with little research I can find thread about that dating 2 or 3 years ago. True, with the first release of Revelation there was a surge of complains, but if you think that finding a target in 30 seconds, with 100% success, and jumping on him while busy fighting 30 NPC whitout risk of the sayd NPC ever firing on you was well balanced, you have a particular idea of what is balanced. Currently it is balanced, scanning require multiple retry to get a lock, so even a busy mission runner, scrambled and warp disrupted by NPC has a chance to kill the NPC he need to warp away, if he is reasonably cautios and check local for potential enemyes.
Kaptein Trefot Caldari Calista Industries	Posted - 2007.01.31 11:00:00 - [106] Originally by: Meng Wei Where do you suppose the pvpers get their stuff? they don't spontaniously appear, they come from other people, and where did the other people get their stuff? npcs. without mission runners there won't be pvp, because nobody will be able to afford anything and they will be forced to do missions themselves to replace the ship they just lost. oh and missioning is far more profitable than any other profession. missioning for a week at 2 hours a day gets me a billion, more than enough to throw away a couple fully fitted hacs. Please tell me how you earn 70+ mill an hour playing 2 hours a day. Thats right - you dont.
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 11:37:00 - [107] Originally by: General Grevous why do u care so much what other people do with their time? Thousands of people creating isk in highsec, pushing down the value of isk earned in 0.0 affects us the same way macro miners affect real miners.
General Grevous Caldari The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:43:00 - [108] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: General Grevous why do u care so much what other people do with their time? Thousands of people creating isk in highsec, pushing down the value of isk earned in 0.0 affects us the same way macro miners affect real miners. isnt that all part of a dynamic economy? why whine at something that was intended.... why not just nerf the market altogether. infact dont complain at the people with the money moan at the people selling the stuff so cheaply. what ur basically saying is that if spend time in 0.0 killin u want more (because its lawless and u can get killed by othr players in the oh so empty 0.0 systems cause everyone thinks its bad, i have spent time there)than someone who hones their skills to deal with making money.... in that case i want t2bpo's handed out on char creation and every mineral type available in high sec because the low sec people have all the glory of PvP/alliance/high bounty rats high end complexes minerals to make u rich. at the end of the day all this whining isnt going to acheive anythin. ur moaning wont stop me doin misions to save for a cnr or any other thing i want from eve... same as mine wont affect ur 0.0 experience. Noob since november 05
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:29:00 - [109] Originally by: Xavier Raines I don't think anyone really hates Misson runners or gives them much thought. However, after the Rev patch was put in they all came to these forums and whined, kicked and screamed about the easier probing and scanning and it annoyed the rest of the playerbase because Mission Running is the one profession in the game where you could do it until your fingers fall off with virtually zero risk. The only risk at all is losing ships to NPCs during the missions and if that is costing you more money than you are making, it is time to look for a new profession. When the carebears whined about some risk being injected into their profession, most people got irritated and that is what started the flames. Even Mining has more risk than missions as you always have to be on the lookout for pirates and people messing with your cans ect. Plus Mining is generally less profitable for the time you put in. Especially if you are a noob miner like me. So to sum it up, nobody cared until they all came to the forums to whine about their "isk fountains" becoming more risky. Then came the "let us play our way and you play your way" garbage.....which IS garbage considering this isn't a game where the populations are or should be segragated. Will take a guess and say you not been playing for long/or not a big forum goer till recently? The mission runner hate has been on going for quite a while now, "they make to much ISK, its to safe, they are hurting the market, its the only way to get empire faction ships etc...". That lists a couple of the reoccurring whines that hit the forums on a regular basis (granted they do wax and wane, maybe its a phase of the moon thing?). The utter bull**** that is put out about the rewards mission runners get is beyond a joke, not to mantion it refrances figures that are what over a year out of date? ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:35:00 - [110] Bottom line though, is that wheras _most_ of EVE is competitive, people driving for control of finite quantities, missions aren't.
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:59:00 - [111] Edited by: Exlegion on 31/01/2007 15:03:40 Originally by: James Lyrus Bottom line though, is that wheras _most_ of EVE is competitive, people driving for control of finite quantities, missions aren't. Other than systems and T2 BPOs, nothing is finite, including complexes (which from what I understand are *****d every day). And competition in Eve is presented in many ways. And depending on someone's style of play some are more appealing than others. Perhaps someone's competitive drive is to own a CNR one day, or become a rig builder. It doesn't necessarily have to be about enslaving to an alliance or becoming a pirate. Eve is a diverse universe appealing to different types of play styles, not just pirates and alliances.
Soon Tzu	Posted - 2007.01.31 15:03:00 - [112] Originally by: James Lyrus Bottom line though, is that wheras _most_ of EVE is competitive, people driving for control of finite quantities, missions aren't. so? If I mine, the rock will respawn, not finite If I kill NPC's, they too will respawn, not finite. <sarcasm>...so lets remove all of these since they are not finite...</sarcasm> I think missions suck for the rewards vs time, I could kill rats in low-sec and make more money, but there is that lotto type chance I might get something nifty, so I do a few now and then. Missions can make you isk, get you items, but the time sink to get there is huge, and the economy of the game would take a greivous hit if they removed it due to whiny pvp-only narrow minded viewpoint players hint -->(eve != CTF)
Carter Burke	Posted - 2007.01.31 15:35:00 - [113] Originally by: Too Kind EVE is also an isk competition That is incorrect. I don't care how much cash you make. I don't care how much cash anyone else makes. Only if you choose to use an ISK accumulation as your balance does that matter - and if all you're doing is collecting a score, why not go play pinball or something? I play for scenery, for competition in a variety of ways, and for the occasional heart attack (read: warping into six battleships, ten sentries, and twenty frigates). PvP doesn't really do much for me, but I'm happy to hand someone their lunch from time to time. Ultimately, though, where's the satisfaction? It's never a fair fight - either I totally overpower the opponent, or I am overpowered. Where's the excitement in that? I would suggest we get an arena - fight singly or in teams - maybe we register ourselves or our teams with DED for PvP competition and warp to our Deadspace arenas to fight opponents of matched class. Who knows? Maybe that'd become a form similar to the Caldari competitions. CB
Imaldris	Posted - 2007.01.31 15:43:00 - [114] 0.0 ratting is hardly riskier than mission running Really?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:18:00 - [115] I dislike missions in general I WANT BOUNTY AND ASSASINATION MISSIONS DAMMIT! Bounty missions get assigned on pirates Asassination missions get assigned on bounty hunters and people with bad standings to an NPC corp (it would give more incentive to not have -5 to The brutor tribe for example) Half Assed Rhymage
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:28:00 - [116] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS Originally by: Kryss Darkdust In fact I would dare say that mission running really has no risk. Tell that to the neverending gate spawn on Enemies Abound 5/5 :D Its good you enjoy EVE and have succes with PvE, and PvP selling your loot...gratz to you But you cannnot compare AI..to good players...it takes little effort to NOT get killed by AI drones.... I once had a sig...it deleted
Oosel Nightmare Holdings Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:39:00 - [117] no matter how hard the masses cry for us mission runners to be nerfed i know it wont stop me doing them .......i dont want to engage in player ship to ship combat and no argument from pvp'ers will convince me otherwise and until the day ccp take them out of the game all together i will always find some way of doing them and also avoiding any type of player to player ship combat i can when they take it out all together i will find another game as will many others but i wouldnt worry about it too much yet as we all know a great many paying players run missions and ccp will not be stupid enough to drive that many people away
Crumplecorn Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:49:00 - [118] My opinion on mission runners has not changed since I last posted in this thread. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:01:00 - [119] I don't know about anyone else, but I can make more ISK mining in a Ret in a decent 0.0 system than I ever could running lvl 3's. As for level 4's...pfft, I need more sp to even think aabout handling Worlds Collide or somesuch. As for faction fitted CNR's...ha only a small percentage of people can afford that sorta thing. Missions...I run missions when I need cash or want to raise my LP with an Agent, when I'm not mining. I do this a lot, tbh becasue I can only afford limited losses in PvP. If I Lose two Drakes? Guess what, back to the grind for a while.
Halafian The Graduates	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:01:00 - [120] Edited by: Halafian on 31/01/2007 16:58:09 Originally by: Cipher7 Being a PVP player or a PVE player is a matter of conditioning. Highsec is like a donut shop in the center of a marine base. The donut shop is open 24 hours and the donuts are free, so people stay in the donut shop and have no incentive to come out. As a result the donut shop is overflowing with obese people pretending to be Marines. High Sec = Donut Shop Missions = Donuts People need to be CONDITIONED to interact, they need to be CONDITIONED to accept danger without stress. PVP is a LEARNED behavior. Missions discourage players from becoming conditioned for PVP. But I don't want to pvp. I don't like pvp. PvP is not fun. I tried pvp and I didn't enjoy it. If my options are to pvp or quit Eve I will quit Eve. I build things, I mine, I trade, I run missions, I chat with friends, I cooperate with others on their projects -- there's more to Eve than pvp. Any good MMORPG is about more than pvp. The nearest Counterstrike server is ---> that way.
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:02:00 - [121] Originally by: General Grevous isnt that all part of a dynamic economy? Missions aren't part of any economy, money is created in safety with no competition. Level 3 and 4 missions should all be outside of highsec. Risk/Reward
18 Rabbit	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:10:00 - [122] Originally by: James Lyrus A fixed rate respawn is _not_ the same as an infinite 'gimme missions'. In the former case, it's worth competing for 'control'. If I bring 10000 people and there is a mining op, the net amount of cash generated is capped by the ore respawn rates. If I take 10000 people doing missions, then the rate cap is what? The time spent running the missions. When you accept a mission, you do actually have to go through the step of completing all mission objectives, which can frequently take hours. And for some people, missions are actually hard. Not everyone is flying around in a CNR with a billion isk setup, rigs and fancy implants. Meanwhile, ores in 0.0 ARE effectively limitless, since they are almost never mined out, in reality, and they do respawn pretty quickly.
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:11:00 - [123] Originally by: Halafian But I don't want to pvp. I don't like pvp. PvP is not fun. I tried pvp and I didn't enjoy it. If my options are to pvp or quit Eve I will quit Eve. I build things, I mine, I trade, I run missions, I chat with friends, I cooperate with others on their projects -- there's more to Eve than pvp. Right now a highsec mission runner can make 3-4x the money that someone can make ratting in lowsec. FYI, a highsec miner is a higher life form than a level 4 mission runner in my eyes. They take a risk, they can get their ore stolen, they have to compete for ore spawns, and they have to compete on the market to sell their ore. There is risk and competition. Where is the risk and competition in highsec mission running? Play how you want, but the rewards should be in-line with the risks.
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:15:00 - [124] Originally by: Halafian Edited by: Halafian on 31/01/2007 16:58:09 Originally by: Cipher7 Being a PVP player or a PVE player is a matter of conditioning. Highsec is like a donut shop in the center of a marine base. The donut shop is open 24 hours and the donuts are free, so people stay in the donut shop and have no incentive to come out. As a result the donut shop is overflowing with obese people pretending to be Marines. High Sec = Donut Shop Missions = Donuts People need to be CONDITIONED to interact, they need to be CONDITIONED to accept danger without stress. PVP is a LEARNED behavior. Missions discourage players from becoming conditioned for PVP. But I don't want to pvp. I don't like pvp. PvP is not fun. I tried pvp and I didn't enjoy it. If my options are to pvp or quit Eve I will quit Eve. I build things, I mine, I trade, I run missions, I chat with friends, I cooperate with others on their projects -- there's more to Eve than pvp. Any good MMORPG is about more than pvp. The nearest Counterstrike server is ---> that way. It seems to me you enjoy PvP, the only thing you dont like is combatting against other players in ship fights. Everything in EVE is PvP...from mining,trading,manufacturing...even mission running.......you cpmpete against others, fore the best belts, you trade against others on the market, etc etc. I once had a sig...it deleted
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:16:00 - [125] Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 31/01/2007 16:55:48Take 100 people, that you have mission running in one of the popular systems. Now take that same hundred people out into 0.0 mining or ratting? Or hell, just out into a 0.5 system (even though the ore and rats are much worse). You will very quickly find that the place gets mined/ratted out. Yes, technically they respawn. So do complexes for that matter. But only once a day. A fixed rate respawn is _not_ the same as an infinite 'gimme missions'. In the former case, it's worth competing for 'control'. If I bring 10000 people and there is a mining op, the net amount of cash generated is capped by the ore respawn rates. If I take 10000 people doing missions, then the rate cap is what? And no, I disagree with you entirely on the economic point too. Infinite low risk streams of isk have a very serious effect on the economy, in exactly the wrong direction. If mission-running is soo much more profitable than 0.0 mining and 0.0 ratting I'm sure alliances wouldn't mind trading their space for empire space; I sure as hell wouldn't mind And when CCP decides to tuilt this game 100% towards 733T PVP I suspect many are gonna wish those 'darn pesky mission runners' were back helping to pay the bills. But I guess for now you can bash 'em and trash 'em.
Halafian The Graduates	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:17:00 - [126] Edited by: Halafian on 31/01/2007 17:14:21 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Halafian But I don't want to pvp. I don't like pvp. PvP is not fun. I tried pvp and I didn't enjoy it. If my options are to pvp or quit Eve I will quit Eve. I build things, I mine, I trade, I run missions, I chat with friends, I cooperate with others on their projects -- there's more to Eve than pvp. Right now a highsec mission runner can make 3-4x the money that someone can make ratting in lowsec. FYI, a highsec miner is a higher life form than a level 4 mission runner in my eyes. They take a risk, they can get their ore stolen, they have to compete for ore spawns, and they have to compete on the market to sell their ore. There is risk and competition. Where is the risk and competition in highsec mission running? Play how you want, but the rewards should be in-line with the risks. Go join a large 0.0 alliance and mine, rat and complex with almost less risk than low-sec, with all the manly pvp you can stomach. If you choose to stay in low-sec, the worst part of Eve, that is your own decision. I'll bet the real reason you stay in low-sec and want to drive more people from empire there is that you simply want more gank opportunities. It's not risk and reward you want -- you want an easier life for yourself. You always have the option of moving to 0.0 and enjoying all those opportunities, which are considerably greater than low-sec, with less risk. Why don't you do that?
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:20:00 - [127] No. So is working the market and reselling, no risk/for the reward. Wanna nerf martket peeps too? I never see people complaining about mining, why? becasue you can easily find and gank them, bottom line. You want more targets, more EASY targets, and most of the naysayers are utterly clueless about the mission rewards. It's not nearly as lucrative as you might think., of course you would know this, if you ever ran missions. Please, go right ahead and nerf the sh*t out of Missions AGAIN and see what happens. Cancelled accounts, less PvP, rig prices skyrocketing... All you candy ass whiners who want to ruin the game for others play styles (many of whom are casuals and n00bs) need to just get a glass of stfu and go w a n k off to your killboards with the rest of the e-peen comparison crowd.
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:24:00 - [128] Originally by: Cipher7 Right now a highsec mission runner can make 3-4x the money that someone can make ratting in lowsec. FYI, a highsec miner is a higher life form than a level 4 mission runner in my eyes. They take a risk, they can get their ore stolen, they have to compete for ore spawns, and they have to compete on the market to sell their ore. There is risk and competition. Where is the risk and competition in highsec mission running? Play how you want, but the rewards should be in-line with the risks. I don't really know what you meant by 'higher life form' as opposed to, lower life form (mission runners)? But if it was meant as an insult, I just have to say just because you PVP in front of a PC doesn't mean you are of a higher life form than perhaps the person that role-plays a mission runner. Don't value people based on the professions they choose on a game . Exlegion
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:37:00 - [129] I run missions to finance my PvP. But I seem to be making more isk off of AFK haulers in Empire lately and haven't had to run a mission for about a week now. AFK Hauler plus five T2 cargo expanders in cargo bay makes me a happy camper. ----------------------- I expect no quarter, and will give none. What I post are my views, no one elses.
Antithysis Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:08:00 - [130] We don't hate mission-runners! You drop the best loot! --------- Originally by: Oveur (at FanFest 2006) Titans aren't meant to be cost-effective - they're giant ****s!
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:21:00 - [131] Well back when the only missions Eve-online had, sucked so bad only a few hundred were doing them. Remember the very first Miner II? Production corporations, well they could specialize, there were ammo companies, missles, turrets...etc...etc...etc...Then they added these missions, and ammo, and missle drops went from 10 to 100 per drop, the 'named' mods were far better then the player made mods...Player made market went to **. One could not produce and sell an item for 1.5% profit anymore. Most likely player made items sold for at the most .25% profit margin. Thousands of new players leaving WoW and EQ came flocking to Eve, no they did not come here to PvP...far from it, just another game that allowed them to PvE. Some of the core systems became croweded with agent runners, they are now at the top limet...no level 5's With the mass influx of new players, along came the gold farmers.... Then the character sales.... Then the GTC<-->ISK trade.... Man this game is going to hell quick Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate** or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:23:00 - [132] Originally by: Halafian Go join a large 0.0 alliance and mine, rat and complex with less risk than low-sec I live in 0.0 ya goof. As far as "z0mg pirates" the game would be boring without them. If you want to stay in highsec and avoid any kind of hostility, you're free to do that, but the pay should scale with the level of risk and competition.
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:39:00 - [133] Originally by: Roshan longshot Well back when the only missions Eve-online had, sucked so bad only a few hundred were doing them. Remember the very first Miner II? Production corporations, well they could specialize, there were ammo companies, missles, turrets...etc...etc...etc...Then they added these missions, and ammo, and missle drops went from 10 to 100 per drop, the 'named' mods were far better then the player made mods...Player made market went to ****. One could not produce and sell an item for 1.5% profit anymore. Most likely player made items sold for at the most .25% profit margin. Thousands of new players leaving WoW and EQ came flocking to Eve, no they did not come here to PvP...far from it, just another game that allowed them to PvE. Some of the core systems became croweded with agent runners, they are now at the top limet...no level 5's With the mass influx of new players, along came the gold farmers.... Then the character sales.... Then the GTC<-->ISK trade.... Man this game is going to hell quick With the success came some cons. I don't get it. Are you suggesting Eve revert back to the old days' subcription base? You do relize that without Eve's current subscription base you wouldn't have much of the upgrades and expansions, right?
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:41:00 - [134] Originally by: Roshan longshot Well back when the only missions Eve-online had, sucked so bad only a few hundred were doing them. Remember the very first Miner II? Production corporations, well they could specialize, there were ammo companies, missles, turrets...etc...etc...etc...Then they added these missions, and ammo, and missle drops went from 10 to 100 per drop, the 'named' mods were far better then the player made mods...Player made market went to ****. One could not produce and sell an item for 1.5% profit anymore. Most likely player made items sold for at the most .25% profit margin. Thousands of new players leaving WoW and EQ came flocking to Eve, no they did not come here to PvP...far from it, just another game that allowed them to PvE. Some of the core systems became croweded with agent runners, they are now at the top limet...no level 5's With the mass influx of new players, along came the gold farmers.... Then the character sales.... Then the GTC<-->ISK trade.... Man this game is going to hell quick Bingo. Companies are tripping over themselves to cash in on WoW kiddies.
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:43:00 - [135] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Halafian Go join a large 0.0 alliance and mine, rat and complex with less risk than low-sec I live in 0.0 ya goof. As far as "z0mg pirates" the game would be boring without them. If you want to stay in highsec and avoid any kind of hostility, you're free to do that, but the pay should scale with the level of risk and competition. Scale the pay enough to where it's a waste and no fun to play the game, and you'll lose enough players to hurt anyone's game play (including yours). The game would be boring without the mission runners as well. They help pay for Eve's expansions and upgrades.
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:55:00 - [136] Originally by: Exlegion Scale the pay enough to where it's a waste and no fun to play the game, and you'll lose enough players to hurt anyone's game play (including yours). The game would be boring without the mission runners as well. They help pay for Eve's expansions and upgrades. Some would be forced to go PVP and fall in love. Some would be forced to go play WoW. The game itself would be better, more mature, more cohesive. The only argument that can be made for having missions is income from the WoW crowd. But I am not proposing to do away with Missions, some people enjoy doing them. Simply placing all level 3 and 4 missions in lowsec would bring risk/reward in balance.
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:00:00 - [137] And almost forgot. My other suggestion. 1) Raise all mission rewards by %40 2) Tax NPC corps %40
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:01:00 - [138] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Exlegion Scale the pay enough to where it's a waste and no fun to play the game, and you'll lose enough players to hurt anyone's game play (including yours). The game would be boring without the mission runners as well. They help pay for Eve's expansions and upgrades. Some would be forced to go PVP and fall in love. PvP I can understand I guess, but forced to fall in love? My girlfriend would beat my ass. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:11:00 - [139] Do you believe casual players are going to log in for 2 to 3 hours a day to do levels 1 and 2 missions on their 1+ year character? Instead of concentrating on those players that just want to do their own thing in high sec why not concentrate your efforts on those that DO want to play with you?
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:19:00 - [140] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust Considering the hazards of 0.0 space, mission running is far superior to ratting in 0.0 missions is what? well considering you can make 30mill a hour by mining in 0.0 i would like to know what crazy missions your doing? and around 20mil a hour by ratting in 0.0 (loot not counted, but would get alot higher if you took the loot too).. a mission runner with the right skills can make lvl 4 missions. (some of them are really hard without faction mods, almost impossible without any t2). so if your just using full t2 we are looking on a 300mill. missioning ship.. if we are talking faction (which will remove the chance of beeing killed) we are talking 2bill+ considering you get around 2 mill a mission(reward (normal lvl 4 highest quelity caldari) and around lets just say 5mill in bounties (the bs's in missions only gives you around 300-700k) then its 7 mill per missions, doing more then 2 missions a hour is kind of harsh... so around 14mill a hour maybe 21... with a 2bill+ investment... well yer i wouldn't complain about you getting to much from missions ___________________________________________ come on.. stop thinking about YOU. and start thinking about All of us... how do we get a more fun and enjoyable game for all of us.
Alz Shado Ever Flow ORION FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:25:00 - [141] Originally by: CmdrThor I spend most of my playtime doing missions, yet I earn 80% of my ISK by playing the market. The moral of the story: nerf the market! Some might argue that the market is just as PvP, if not moreso, than going pewpew in tin cans. Don't nerf the market, give me more weapons for it!
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:28:00 - [142] Edited by: Exlegion on 31/01/2007 19:31:18 Originally by: Cipher7 Some would be forced to go PVP and fall in love. Some would be forced to go play WoW. Force people to your playstyle? Why? Originally by: Cipher7 The game itself would be better, more mature, more cohesive. I see immaturity from both sides of the fence, not just 'mission runners'. Assuming that the maturity level will improve once non-PVPers leave from the game is a very rash position to take. Originally by: Cipher7 The only argument that can be made for having missions is income from the WoW crowd. Here's some more carebear benefits : They buy 0.0 and low sec loot, they provide the market with T1 rig components, some build stuff (perhaps even what you have equipped at the moment), they provide the market with named loot and minerals. By the way, I've never played WoW in my life. In fact, I only learned about WoW because it's rehashed so much in the form of "Go play WoW". Originally by: Cipher7 But I am not proposing to do away with Missions, some people enjoy doing them. Simply placing all level 3 and 4 missions in lowsec would bring risk/reward in balance. People enjoy missions because they can see results and actually find things to do with the isk they earn. Low sec and 0.0 already earn you much more than mission running. Why nuke them to where there's no purpose to them?
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:38:00 - [143] Edited by: CrestoftheStars on 31/01/2007 19:34:29 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Exlegion Scale the pay enough to where it's a waste and no fun to play the game, and you'll lose enough players to hurt anyone's game play (including yours). The game would be boring without the mission runners as well. They help pay for Eve's expansions and upgrades. Some would be forced to go PVP and fall in love. Some would be forced to go play WoW. The game itself would be better, more mature, more cohesive. The only argument that can be made for having missions is income from the WoW crowd. But I am not proposing to do away with Missions, some people enjoy doing them. Simply placing all level 3 and 4 missions in lowsec would bring risk/reward in balance. 1: fall in love? You most be far outà either you like the pvp (if you got the isk) or you donÆt like it. 2: so every one that is not in pvp should go play wowà yer can just see the market disappearing and people using only things you can buy from npcÆs.. 3: no it would be repetitively and boring, every one doing the same again and again. And more mature? I have never meet more immature people then I have meet in 0.0à they are acting like power hungry children that think they can do whatever they want toà 4: emm if thatÆs the only thing you can find good about them your not very far into the game or your just stupid as hell.. good things: 1: standing (will be a main thing for the upcoming Fw) 2: let people do some fighting in a more secure space 3: another way of making isk 4: another way of teamwork (where only the team can go, no unwelcome guest dropping in and destroying the fun for those players that just want to play with their friends) and as a last commendà the risk/reward are in balance, do a bunch of missions and then come and make conclusions afterwoods (you need a fully t2 bs to be able to do all the lvl 4 missions, and still with this it can be very hardà you will need faction mods to do it without the big riskà but anything you do with a 2bill + is with very low risk) ___________________________________________ come on.. stop thinking about YOU. and start thinking about All of us... how do we get a more fun and enjoyable game for all of us.
000Hunter000 Gallente Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:11:00 - [144] Without reading any other post then the 1st op's one i can say i really don't give a insert bad word here what other people think about missionrunners or miners or carebears in general, i enjoy this game my way and i'm tired of people who think their way is the only way to play eve. So once more, if u like missions, do missions, if u like beeing a pirate, be a pirate, if u like to mine, mine, if u like to build and sell stuff, do so, if u like to snipe newbfrigs, get a social life if u like to pvp, go pvp, just make sure u enjoy your way of playing style but have some respect for the playing style of others. Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
F900EX	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:15:00 - [145] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Without reading any other post then the 1st op's one i can say i really don't give a insert bad word here what other people think about missionrunners or miners or carebears in general, i enjoy this game my way and i'm tired of people who think their way is the only way to play eve. So once more, if u like missions, do missions, if u like beeing a pirate, be a pirate, if u like to mine, mine, if u like to build and sell stuff, do so, if u like to snipe newbfrigs, get a social life if u like to pvp, go pvp, just make sure u enjoy your way of playing style but have some respect for the playing style of others. Your so right... I never knew there could be some many idiots in one thread at once.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:28:00 - [146] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Roshan longshot Well back when the only missions Eve-online had, sucked so bad only a few hundred were doing them. Remember the very first Miner II? Production corporations, well they could specialize, there were ammo companies, missles, turrets...etc...etc...etc...Then they added these missions, and ammo, and missle drops went from 10 to 100 per drop, the 'named' mods were far better then the player made mods...Player made market went to **. One could not produce and sell an item for 1.5% profit anymore. Most likely player made items sold for at the most .25% profit margin. Thousands of new players leaving WoW and EQ came flocking to Eve, no they did not come here to PvP...far from it, just another game that allowed them to PvE. Some of the core systems became croweded with agent runners, they are now at the top limet...no level 5's With the mass influx of new players, along came the gold farmers.... Then the character sales.... Then the GTC<-->ISK trade.... Man this game is going to hell quick With the success came some cons. I don't get it. Are you suggesting Eve revert back to the old days' subcription base? You do relize that without Eve's current subscription base you wouldn't have much of the upgrades and expansions, right? You do know CCP has been makeing a profit for the last two years?....And I dont know about you, but these last couple of expansions have not impressed me one little iota. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate** or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Caedicus Minmatar Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:29:00 - [147] Missions runners who do nothing but run missions are paying 15 bucks a month to play a single player game. There are much more fun single player space sims that you guys can play and don't cost nearly as much. Seriously, if you think missions in Eve are fun, please try playing another game. Mission runners that expect and demand they should make as much ISK/hour as people who actually risk their ships are really annoying. Evolution in Eve:
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:49:00 - [148] Originally by: Caedicus Missions runners who do nothing but run missions are paying 15 bucks a month to play a single player game. There are much more fun single player space sims that you guys can play and don't cost nearly as much. Seriously, if you think missions in Eve are fun, please try playing another game. Mission runners that expect and demand they should make as much ISK/hour as people who actually risk their ships are really annoying. Missions aren't (gulp) fun? When did this happen? I must have missed the memo. Could you also tell me if Broccoli tastes good? Again, OPINION!
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:17:00 - [149] Originally by: Exlegion Missions aren't (gulp) fun? When did this happen? I must have missed the memo. Could you also tell me if Broccoli tastes good? Again, OPINION! Anyone who thinks missions in EVE are actually FUN must be derranged, depraved, in denial (I'd love to keep the "d" theme going on but..) or absolutely retarded. And yes, that is my opinion. ~~~~~~~~~ Hey Gai. Bak Off Coz Ai Bang Yu Hawd. K Gai?
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:26:00 - [150] Edited by: Exlegion on 31/01/2007 21:23:27 Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Originally by: Exlegion Missions aren't (gulp) fun? When did this happen? I must have missed the memo. Could you also tell me if Broccoli tastes good? Again, OPINION! Anyone who thinks missions in EVE are actually FUN must be derranged, depraved, in denial (I'd love to keep the "d" theme going on but..) or absolutely retarded. And yes, that is my opinion. Nvm. It's clear you're just throwing bait here.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:30:00 - [151] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Halafian But I don't want to pvp. I don't like pvp. PvP is not fun. I tried pvp and I didn't enjoy it. If my options are to pvp or quit Eve I will quit Eve. I build things, I mine, I trade, I run missions, I chat with friends, I cooperate with others on their projects -- there's more to Eve than pvp. Right now a highsec mission runner can make 3-4x the money that someone can make ratting in lowsec. FYI, a highsec miner is a higher life form than a level 4 mission runner in my eyes. They take a risk, they can get their ore stolen, they have to compete for ore spawns, and they have to compete on the market to sell their ore. There is risk and competition. Where is the risk and competition in highsec mission running? Play how you want, but the rewards should be in-line with the risks. Chyper7; you are ratting in low sec, right? How much are you doing in 1 hour? Running level 4 missions in high sec, loot and bonus implants from storylines included, give 20 million/hour max, counting the time from accepting mission and delivery of the same + looting. So you are doing 5-7 million hour ratting, included salvage and looting? Unless those are your return (and don't forget to factor the 1 spawn in 10 giving good faction items, storyline missions are 1 every 16 regular, and no more than half give bonus implants now) you are very wrong.
Tarminic	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:30:00 - [152] I like missions. Those big red crosses are like little morsels of delicious money and salvage waiting to be plucked Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:00:00 - [153] For a game that requires so much brainpower, these forums sure have a surplus of daft people... get's into his cnr and fly's off into infinity
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:01:00 - [154] Originally by: Caedicus Missions runners who do nothing but run missions are paying 15 bucks a month to play a single player game. There are much more fun single player space sims that you guys can play and don't cost nearly as much. Seriously, if you think missions in Eve are fun, please try playing another game. Mission runners that expect and demand they should make as much ISK/hour as people who actually risk their ships are really annoying. Your last phrase is one of the funniest, in a twisted way, I have read in this forum. If with "those that risk their ship" you intend miners or rattlers in low sec/0.0 (PvP is totally another thing, in it one side will always lose more isk than it will gain, and it is possible to both the side to lose isk) I have very rarely seen some one advocating that, and no one, mission runner included, will cosider a similar proposal seriously. On the other and, a lot of non-mission runner is constantly crying for a nerf in the uber rewards, relocating the level 3 and 4 missions in low sec, getting better chances at gankin mission runners in the mission sites (possibly while they are webbed, warp scrambled and fired upon by 30 ships).
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:09:00 - [155] Most low sercuity pirates have less risk than low sercuity miners/mission runners Miner/Mission runner: Take the risk of people showing up and blowing you up any time you want Pirates: We only fight when they A) have no guns or B) are already engaged by multiple NPCs. I have to say risk wise, from lowest to highest: high sec mining < high sec missioning < pirating < low sec missioning < low sec mining 0.0 is another story, pirates actually risk getting shot there by anti-pirates, so they don't usually go there.
Soumk	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:28:00 - [156] Gankers want to force non-PvP type mission runners into low sec or 0.0 so they can kill them and steal their stuff. Any argument they make against mission running is to achieve this goal.
Caios Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.01 00:35:00 - [157] I wouldn't mind shifting some missions into lowsec. In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward.
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.02.01 00:57:00 - [158] Originally by: Caios I wouldn't mind shifting some missions into lowsec. In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward. I'd love to see this implemented.
Cipher7 Nightgliders Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:39:00 - [159] Originally by: Caios I wouldn't mind shifting some missions into lowsec. In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward. I think that's a brilliant idea. Or how about this. When someone warps in, rat frigate reinforcements arrive and web/scramble the new arrival. But anyway. This conversation is not about missions and how sucky they are or doing away with them. My issue with missions is rewards, they simply should not pay anywhere near what they do. My vision of the game : Highsec : 3 mil an hour max, that goes for missions, miners etc Lowsec : 4-7 mil an hour ratting/mining 0.0 : 10+ mil an hour ratting, 30+ mil an hour mining Miners should make more than ratters, ratters should make more than mish runners, industrialists and traders obviously have the most potential for profit.
General Grevous Caldari The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:42:00 - [160] Originally by: Caios I wouldn't mind shifting some missions into lowsec. In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward. if ur quiet u can almost hear the pirates gasp before they shour NERF i would so love this to happen sad aint it that they are dependant on prey, especially when the prey adapts. then they cry to mommy Noob since november 05
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:44:00 - [161] Originally by: RtoZ For a game that requires so much brainpower, these forums sure have a surplus of daft people... Quote: Anotha Winnah! ------------------- Ignorance
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:44:00 - [162] IMO If you don't like the game the way it is, don't play it. Can I have your stuff?
Igus	Posted - 2007.02.01 14:50:00 - [163] I really like the way the missions are set up. If i want to do a mission with a few buddies i can. If i want to do high sec missions i can, (with lesser rewards of course) if i want to do low sec missions for greater reward, and much greater risk i can. As far as i see it the anti mission stuff is coming from a group of whiners getting upset because they are not able to enlarge their epeen as big as they want. Though the thought about making npc AIs much smarter/dumber to attack another player as they warp it would be great in low sec. Right now the risk of lowsec mission running greatly outweighs the reward. Mainly because PvP and PvE are two completely different combat styles and ship load outs. The pirates that gank a person in low sec have a major advantage.
Soporo	Posted - 2007.02.01 17:27:00 - [164]
Soporo	Posted - 2007.02.01 17:31:00 - [165] Sure as hell, I would mission in LowSec if a prat got aggro soon as he jumped in. Hell, I would mission there in the HOPES that some would jump in. Wonder how much they would like Blockade or Worlds Collide. ____________________________________________________________ Quote: DooD... Your village called. They want their idiot back...
000Hunter000 Gallente Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.01 18:04:00 - [166] I wish i hadn't read the posts made after my last one... sigh... Some people really don't get it and still think their way is the only way... how small minded... oh well... Well i'd love to throw in a few rants, flames and insults of my own but i have a WC L4 waiting Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
IRS Informant Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2007.02.01 18:14:00 - [167] Originally by: Caios In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward. Errr... That's not a recipe for abuse at all, is it?.. Main sits in big FOF missile ship or drone boat.. Tanked alt jumps in and out of mission pulling aggro.. No risk, all reward.. Yeah, that's definitely an improvement..
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.02.01 18:21:00 - [168] Originally by: IRS Informant Originally by: Caios In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward. Errr... That's not a recipe for abuse at all, is it?.. Main sits in big FOF missile ship or drone boat.. Tanked alt jumps in and out of mission pulling aggro.. No risk, all reward.. Yeah, that's definitely an improvement.. But wait! I thought missions were easy??? Which is it, are they or not?
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.02.01 18:23:00 - [169] Edited by: Exlegion on 01/02/2007 18:20:47 Originally by: IRS Informant Originally by: Caios In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward. Errr... That's not a recipe for abuse at all, is it?.. Main sits in big FOF missile ship or drone boat.. Tanked alt jumps in and out of mission pulling aggro.. No risk, all reward.. Yeah, that's definitely an improvement.. But wait! I thought missions were easy??? Which is it, are they or not? If they're easy, why use alts? If they're not, why the "missions have no risk" chants? You can't have it both ways now.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.02.01 18:27:00 - [170] Originally by: Caios I wouldn't mind shifting some missions into lowsec. In return, rework NPC AI so they shift aggro to any new ships warping in. Risk/reward. Whether LowSec missions need to be made safer or not from pirates is a complicated question, but this would be an awful way to accomplish the goal--unless the real goal is just to make them trivial to finish for any player with a friend or a second character, as well as to make them almost completely safe from pirating. In that case, a simpler solution would be just to instance them and halve the damage output of all NPCs. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Caios Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.01 21:01:00 - [171] Edited by: Caios on 01/02/2007 20:59:22 Edited by: Caios on 01/02/2007 20:58:43 It wasn't a real proposal. Just meant to illustrate a point. Mission runners don't have it all so easy, and those who prey on it don't have it all that hard atm, either. I think the general problem with these forums is that everyone takes things way too seriously. CCP didn't nerf the player base's sense of humor, did it?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.02.01 21:28:00 - [172] Originally by: Caios Edited by: Caios on 01/02/2007 20:59:22 Edited by: Caios on 01/02/2007 20:58:43 It wasn't a real proposal. Just meant to illustrate a point. Mission runners don't have it all so easy, and those who prey on it don't have it all that hard atm, either. I think the general problem with these forums is that everyone takes things way too seriously. CCP didn't nerf the player base's sense of humor, did it? I was pretty sure you were joking, but other people were taking it seriously, and the same thing has been proposed in the past. So I felt the need to point out why it's not a good idea. I'm probably a little over-protective of both mission running and of pirates crashing them--two ideas that don't oppose each other afaic, but sometimes other people seem to have a hard time getting their minds around that. But you're right, people who are serious about something foolish probably shouldn't be taken seriously. Guess that includes me this time. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE

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