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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:41:00 - [61] Originally by: Aen Bolusova I think my concerns have been addressed. Thanks for the information, those that provided some. The rest of you can continue to throw monkey ****. Cheers all. I see now I red your OP way to fast , seems like we agree on this principal matter. Take care and fly safe. Cheers Plan Neun "I Will Drug You and Fluff You, through the permafrost"
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:46:00 - [62] AFIK all CCP employees, are required to have at least one active account. Only one GM/employee has ever been fired for useing his "power" in the wrong way. And when asked if they cheat or would they cheat to get the upper hand...."Are you kidding, its not worth my job" IMHO all CCP employees have left BoB...and are in other non-spotlighted corps and alliances by now. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Agrias Hellion Diligentia Sodalitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:46:00 - [63] Op does have a slight point. If one group of devs are in one alliance and that alliance starts moving forward it could be said that they had an unfair advantage, like it or not devs have knowledge of game mechanics that others may not. An example would be, using recent events, a GM is a member of BoB and is the GM who receives the petition about the recently dispatched Titan. He/she may have even taken part in its destruction. Could the owner of the titan expect to receive a completely unbiased invstigation and subsequent conclusion? Are there safe guards in place to prevent potentially biased decisions taking place? On the flip side having CCP employees ingame helps in game development, it allows them to hear opinions out of these forums. They can find the borked game mechanics and make plans on fixing them. A very good thing in my opinion. To the people who mention paranoia, or growing up. It's the fact I am grown up with plenty of life experience that tells me it's good to be paranoid. People are scum, and even those people who understand morals and apply them to their own actions can make biased decisions. Need Some Sig Loving.
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:18:00 - [64] Originally by: Agrias Hellion Could the owner of the titan expect to receive a completely unbiased invstigation and subsequent conclusion? Are there safe guards in place to prevent potentially biased decisions taking place? I believe we have to assume the answer to both questions is 'yes' unless we have some evidence to the contrary. This is a big picture issue, and goes beyond the particulars of the ASCN-BoB conflict. It's about the integrity of CCP and EVE.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:20:00 - [65] This is my personal conspiracy theory about the Devs. Yes, they play EvE. But not for th3 ph3w ph3w or ph4t l00t. I think they play (and prolly in both big and small alliances) to experience who they work and how well they work. And if the alliances do work as they should. I doubt they will do it for personal gain because they own it all allready, so what can they gain? They play the game on a level that all their customers don't. Or, and this is my 2nd theory, they are pretty tired of EvE after 8-12 hours of coding it, reading our whines and fighting everyday problems. So they go home and watch some TV and play WoW ducks and covers
Apolitos	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:23:00 - [66] Topic is wrng, CCP And White Wolf, they merged so add them too. They are part of our in game life now. Thank you.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:27:00 - [67] Originally by: Aen Bolusova Originally by: Agrias Hellion Could the owner of the titan expect to receive a completely unbiased invstigation and subsequent conclusion? Are there safe guards in place to prevent potentially biased decisions taking place? I believe we have to assume the answer to both questions is 'yes' unless we have some evidence to the contrary. This is a big picture issue, and goes beyond the particulars of the ASCN-BoB conflict. It's about the integrity of CCP and EVE. In the rest of the world, nobody assumes 'yes' to questions like this. Why would you have integrity rules, chinese walls and all that stuff and still have people getting fired by the busload for doing stupid **** at work? Fishy things are going on. Extremely fishy.
qrac Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:31:00 - [68] Originally by: Roshan longshot IMHO all CCP employees have left BoB...and are in other non-spotlighted corps and alliances by now. Nope, they're still in BoB. I don't know if they still play on those chars but they have more or less stopped posting on the forums with their chars at least. I have to date seen no proof of them cheating and until proven otherwise I'm going to presume that they don't. -------------------------------------------
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:37:00 - [69] Edited by: Aen Bolusova on 13/12/2006 15:38:09 Originally by: Malachon Draco In the rest of the world, nobody assumes 'yes' to questions like this. Why would you have integrity rules, chinese walls and all that stuff and still have people getting fired by the busload for doing stupid **** at work? I would hope as honorable men and women we would also begin with the supposition that everyone else is equally honorable, and let their actions reveal the truth. Otherwise, we'd be like DB Preacher shudder That would be a death worse than fate!
LynxArd UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:39:00 - [70] well kudos to the op for posting a valid question with his main, after reading the pathetic apology post by spirajunkie its a valid question, thx to the BOB guy who linked t20's post was very interesting and sad to hear he lost his main.

K24Q	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:40:00 - [71] Edited by: K24Q on 13/12/2006 15:42:06 Having not read all the post, in response to the original post ccp employees have played eve before and had caused some trouble (though not intentionally). I refer you back to pre tech 2 days when a lone pilot stumbles on a dev flying a jovian frigate. A conversation took places and said dev gave the curious pilot his mining lasers. The dev hadn't realised that these mining laser where of a tech 4 calibre extremely good. Any ways news spread and these items where brought for large sums on in game money by a large corp hoping to reverse engineer them in the future(irony). Eventually Devs realised their mistake and asked for the return of said laser in exchange for Tech II mining laser BPO (the first one ingame- a licence to print money). This whole episode just highlights the need for employees to be careful when playing their game. At the very least they should not have a position of power which they did not earn via in game means. As for GMs and Devs sorting problems like spanking a pirate who was ganking in highsec and tanking concord fair do it was essentially an exploit of the game mechanics and instead of banning they just spanked him/her. My point is it has happened before and I think CCP learnt a few lessons from it. Though the accusations that the big alliances have inside information I see no proof and I'm such a small fish in a massive pond it has little bearing on me even if this was the case.
MMXMMX Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:40:00 - [72] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Major Stormer Originally by: DB Preacher ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp Still trolling huh? Good luck with that. @OP Just pretend everyone you kill is a GM. Then the "problem" goes away ;) Aye, I'm the one claiming that ASCN are gm's and dev's, that we sploit, hax, cheat our way to victory, that we crash pc's remotely and god knows what other hilarious stuff they have come up with. It's awesome, absolutely awesome. dbp Hmmm why do u feel the need to defand your self when there is no attack ? Strange
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:44:00 - [73] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 13/12/2006 15:49:17 Originally by: qrac Originally by: Roshan longshot IMHO all CCP employees have left BoB...and are in other non-spotlighted corps and alliances by now. Nope, they're still in BoB. I don't know if they still play on those chars but they have more or less stopped posting on the forums with their chars at least. That's twice you speak of this with some serious conviction. The first time you said that members of [Evol] should know what you mean. I've been in Evolution since 2004 now. Tell me, who of us is the dev eh ? I'm sure it's not me, since if i was a dev this game would have gone down the drain long ago already, not to mention that I'd ave done alot less dev-insulting on these forums had I been one of them, right ? So, evemail me, I'd seriously like to know. Old blog
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:44:00 - [74] OMG TIN-FOIL HATTERY!! passes around tin-foil hats by the thousends PUT THEM ON WHILE YOU CAN!! My point? 2 simple things 1. Of course they should be allowed to play their own game!! DUH! Mention 1! game to me where the devs of a game aren't allowed to play it themselves..just 1 please. 2. Like one bright person mentioned...CCP logs everything..certainly they'd log all commands being executed and by whom, and all know which dev is in what player corp/alliance..so you think they'd just be allowed to get away with it? BUZZZ No! Stop yer darn retarded tin-foil yammering, leave them alone and let them play the game like everyone else! -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Soporo	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:46:00 - [75] Like some dude earlier said, I think the benefit outweighs the potential risks. I WANT the Devs to encounter the same retarded random problems I and other people are having about whatever. Playing is the only other way to see this, aside from examining petitions. That having been said, if you think people arent gonna be people and make friends and wish those friends do well....then your out of your tree. I dont think they would do or say or let slip things that would hurt or trouble a large group of people, but I can easily see someone saying to a good friend : "oh btw, might wanna pick up X BPO, no matter the cost,NOW."

kieron	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:49:00 - [76] Yes, the Devs and GMs play EVE. We have to to understand not only the game mechanics, but the concerns of the players. Are we entrusted with a lot? Absolutely, but the penalties for misconduct are just as large. Staff have been fired for misconduct and if someone in the company abuses their position, they will meet with the same punishment. Last time I checked, being on the winning side of a war or fleet engagement didn't pay the house note. Personally, I think that is more than sufficient deterrent. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:51:00 - [77] Edited by: Plan Neun on 13/12/2006 15:54:01 Originally by: Soporo Like some dude earlier said, I think the benefit outweighs the potential risks. I WANT the Devs to encounter the same retarded random problems I and other people are having about whatever. Playing is the only other way to see this, aside from examining petitions. That having been said, if you think people arent gonna be people and make friends and wish those friends do well....then your out of your tree. I dont think they would do or say or let slip things that would hurt or trouble a large group of people, but I can easily see someone saying to a good friend : "oh btw, might wanna pick up X BPO, no matter the cost,NOW." And all this retarded problems we encounter on the tranq server can be re-created and simulated in a closed enviroment. They could even recreate us all as NPC's with all the good and bad habits we have during gameplay Cheers Plan Neun Now im signing off Galnet "I Will Drug You and Fluff You, through the permafrost"
Ellohem Viziam	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:56:00 - [78] Edited by: Ellohem on 13/12/2006 15:59:03 Firstly... this is my main, check it out if you like... Secondly some, note i said some and not all!! people in this thread are way out of line... DB Preacher for 1... Mate a simple question was asked. The OP may be a member of ASCN, but that does not mean the question was from ASCN... the question was from a member of the EVE comunity, so is there any need to be so hostile towards someone who asked a simple question? NO This back stabing and slagging people off on the forums and in game is just petty and childish, simple as that, if you feel you cant answer the question with a resonable answer, then dont post, its not rocket science people, its just manners Rant over, carry on
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:01:00 - [79] Its all true! DB Preacher himself is a dev! ...for another game company. But hes a dev!!! And thats all the proof you need! Seriously though, don't you think having devs play in alliances is actually a GOOD thing, since it gives them firsthand experience with the game mechanics and situations that alliance members have to deal with. Would you really want the devs in a game as complicated as this to not actually play the game the same way the players do? Nemo me impune lacessit
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:31:00 - [80] I think it's a safe bet there's at least one dev in every major alliance, not just BoB. And I think it's a great idea. It gives them an inside look at the game the way the players see it, helps them find areas of improvement and lets them see what players really think about things when they're not talking to a dev. Kind of like how a captain can't get the full picture on what his crew thinks in a situation, because the crew always behaves differently around the captain. So hello to whichever dev was/still is a part of the Stain Alliance group I have my suspicions...

Frankinator Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:34:00 - [81] Originally by: Bayroo WHO WANTS MY STUFF!!! First! me!
Bayroo Gallente Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:35:00 - [82]
Agrias Hellion Diligentia Sodalitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:35:00 - [83] The idea of a dev only corp of uber pwnage does sound interesting though. My new sig! Yes I need practice!
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:36:00 - [84] Edited by: DeckardIRL on 13/12/2006 16:46:57 Have to disagree and say that if Devs want to play then they must remain members of Faction NPC Corps. If they are now in Game they MUST be tagged as being a Dev or CCP employee. I think anything else is unacceptable and always leaves a question. I saw Kierons reply but there is no way you can police your employees that tightly. Its not possible. Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know
Scifa Caldari Fat Bold Men	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [85] Originally by: Arntdec Personnaly I see no problem in CCP staff playing EvE, as long as they do not band together. Like, say... Brothers?!?! Anyway it's all BS.
Doc Punkiller Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [86] Originally by: Arntdec Personnaly I see no problem in CCP staff playing EvE, as long as they do not band together. How would you know if it's not already the case ? I'm exagerating a bit, i guess that it's not the case, but more transparency would be welcome.
Karnov Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Karnov on 13/12/2006 16:46:27 Originally by: Malachon Draco So you're admitting here it has happened, and if I take you litterally, even more than once ("Staff have been fired" sounds like more than 1 occasion. So that means that the risk of dismissal is apparently not enough of a sa***uard in and of itself. Secondly, are you certain you can catch all types of 'abuse'? Specifically: 1. Sure you log your Dev/GM actions, but do you/can you also prevent Devs from telling alliance mates beforehand on upcoming changes/nerfs? 2. Do you prevent devs from informing members of certain very obscure design features? 3. Do you prevent GMs from telling alliance buddies about exploits that they might have encountered in the game, but which CCP can't track or doesn't consider a punishable offense yet? 4. Would you find it appropriate if a large majority of your Bughunters were all member of the same alliance, thus gaining advance knowledge on certain things? The only time I can recall someone abusing powers was a GM, who was caught same day. Evidently he weas new and logs clearly showed a breach. Unlike you the players with "evidence" petitioned and the matter was dealt with instead of the mere suggestion of this all knowing you continue to spout. As stated "repeatedly" if you have evidence either state it or petition it. If you don't then we can all assume your posturing is just empty rhetoric. I'm guessing this has something to do with the insinuation by a certain person who lost a ship about undocumented bugs, do explain that one while you at it. SamuraiJack > I will post a picture of my ass in a thong on eve-o if you win
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [88] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 13/12/2006 16:39:54 I believe that there a non-disclosure agreement is in force. If someone tells you that they're an alt of a GM or dev, and they're telling the truth they are risking the sack. If they're lying, then they risk getting banned as I think that impersonating a CCP employee is against the EULA. So if someone ever claims to be a GM or dev alt, you should report them. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:41:00 - [89] i think the Dev's should play their own game... lol they should be subjected to the good and bad... how can they fix something they know nothing first hand about it? i have not played a game where the dev's do not play, although i would agree they need to be tagged so you know they are devs... and can run from the fast Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:44:00 - [90] I think this all gets taken a little out of context. Nobody in their right mind cares if Devs play the game at alliance level. So they should. Just need to make sure all the checks and balances are there so staff don't abuse the position. It gets a little more burred if the devs (more generally CCP staff) are leaders or senior people within a major alliance. We all know how passionate people can get about their alliances. It gets even more blurry if the most senior people in CCP are also senior people in alliances. See... none of this has anything to do with 'corruption'. I believe CCP is more than professional enough to have systems in place to stop such behaviour. It's more that CCP employees have 'insider' knowledge of both the game dynamics and the changes that are ahead. The rest of us just don't have access to that information. To be honest it's a very thorny issue.



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