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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:40:00 - [1] I admit my noobitude. I've been playing this game for some number of months without really hearing anything about issues with employees of CCP that play the game. So, I'd like to understand the situation a little more. Of course, CCP employees should be allowed to play EVE, and more than just in the capacity of a GM. But isn't there a conflict of interest when such employees, with intimate knowledge of the game at a level most players can't possibly achieve, are the members of in-game alliances? Particularly those that regularly attack other players? It seems to me that the philosophy of EVE, with all of its lawlessness and inter-player violence, implies that a CCP employee can't really play the game without participating in such things. As a customer, however, it does cause me some concern that the time I spend in EVE achieving whatever goals I set for myself could be undone by the same people that cash my check every month. Isn't that kinda odd? I was told recently that a number of GMs have admitted that they're in BoB. I don't know if this is true or not, but it makes me wonder. Are we going to end up with a situation in which CCP's own people end up controlling a significant chunk of the playable area? That's a dubious variety of customer service, dontcha think? I am prepared to be set straight on my tinfoil hat theories. Moving to General discussions, keep it constructive and civil - Kreul Intentions
Frankinator Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:42:00 - [2] Dude, post the proof already. This is getting kinda old :/
Karunel Princeps Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:44:00 - [3] Absolutely, the cousin of the father of the aunt of the nephew of the father in law of CCP's janitor who is Oveur's best friend' friend also told me about that. Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:45:00 - [4] Call the Concord fire brigade! Blog
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Aen Bolusova I admit my noobitude. I've been playing this game for some number of months without really hearing anything about issues with employees of CCP that play the game. So, I'd like to understand the situation a little more. Of course, CCP employees should be allowed to play EVE, and more than just in the capacity of a GM. But isn't there a conflict of interest when such employees, with intimate knowledge of the game at a level most players can't possibly achieve, are the members of in-game alliances? Particularly those that regularly attack other players? It seems to me that the philosophy of EVE, with all of its lawlessness and inter-player violence, implies that a CCP employee can't really play the game without participating in such things. As a customer, however, it does cause me some concern that the time I spend in EVE achieving whatever goals I set for myself could be undone by the same people that cash my check every month. Isn't that kinda odd? I was told recently that a number of GMs have admitted that they're in BoB. I don't know if this is true or not, but it makes me wonder. Are we going to end up with a situation in which CCP's own people end up controlling a significant chunk of the playable area? That's a dubious variety of customer service, dontcha think? I am prepared to be set straight on my tinfoil hat theories. Ehrm, even if anyone from CCP is playing the game, you're aware they dont have their hax gm-dev-tools on a hotkey to spawn 5 dreads yeah? They play the game within the same game mechanics you do. Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected])
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:46:00 - [6] its not true at all, according to D2 im a GM. im not saying that they are correct on a single point but its a easy thing to throw out if you exploit and GM's judge against you. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Scharrer PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:47:00 - [7] Edited by: Scharrer on 13/12/2006 13:48:10 GM's are paid to be fair if they get caught on deciding pro XYZ whilst deciding conrta ABC they wil just loose their job. This of course does not stop everyone from doing bad things but is of course a very good insurance for us players. So please do not try to start rumors but ask the boss of the GM you suspect to act wrong. This will at first of course will stop you looking like an idiot, and later on of course if you were right make the GM loose his job.
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:47:00 - [8] You should note I haven't made any accusations. I'm just trying to understand the situation.
Alakazam Bob The Builder Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:48:00 - [9] Actually he has a valid point. This is why employees and their family that works in lotteries aren't allowed to play because it might look like they have a unfair advantage if they actually do win. There are many similar cases, although I don't think it's a problem for them to play the game--and I'm sure CCP frequently discusses this issue--I think there would be less doubt if they weren't allowed to play the game with their customers.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:48:00 - [10] ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto

Alakazam Bob The Builder Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Scharrer Edited by: Scharrer on 13/12/2006 13:48:10 GM's are paid to be fair if they get caught on deciding pro XYZ whilst deciding conrta ABC they wil just loose their job. This of course does not stop everyone from doing bad things but is of course a very good insurance for us players. So please do not try to start rumors but ask the boss of the GM you suspect to act wrong. This will at first of course will stop you looking like an idiot, and later on of course if you were right make the GM loose his job. This is not about GMs but about devs and employees of CCP. GMs are under very strict rules.
Haks'he Lirky Durgar og Illmenni	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:50:00 - [12] CCP has roughly 100 employees. Most of those are people who are mature and quite frankly old, a great portion of them have spent more than 6 years working on their dream project wich is EVE online. The founders have been living this dream since 1997, thats nine years. Do you seriously think that these people would allow their fellow employees to mess with a dream thats been almost a decade in the making? This is not quake or counterstrike, cheating has long lasting effects on the economy and the very future of EVE online. Read the Dev blogs of Oveur to fully understand that he is a man that lives the EVE dream not to get killmails or Sovereignity victories. Read Skellibjallas blog and think why he should spend time cheating in eve to gain fame, go on read all the dev blogs and wonder if those people are cheating their dreams and occupation. Go on...
Sir JoJo Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:50:00 - [13] only 1 good thing in this topic... u posted whit u main, now u just need to get a tiny little clue
Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:50:00 - [14] Edited by: Plan Neun on 13/12/2006 14:20:28 Note: Personal op Absoletely all the CCP Avatars on tranq server should be deleted ASAP. Why, because of conflict of interest. The CCP staff is humans the temptation to cross borders is no _less_ tempting than a CEO from a stocktrader firm that is only "advising" the sitting president about stocks in f.ex USA. They (CCP employee's) can play on the test server and let us (paying gamers) define the EVe-Univers without this "guiding hand" from CCP. Cheers Plan Neun "I Will Drug You and Fluff You, through the permafrost"
Alakazam Bob The Builder Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:50:00 - [15] Originally by: DB Preacher ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp I swear I didn't see this until now^^
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:50:00 - [16] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 13/12/2006 13:53:02 Im confused, if the devs play eve as players and theryre better at it then you then whats the problem? Its not like they get free isk or super accounts. As for GMs admitting to be in Bob, am i right in guessing ASCN HC told you that? Originally by: Plan Neun They (CCP employee's) can play on the test server and let us (paying gamers) define the EVe-Univers without this "guiding hand" from CCP. Yeah lets force the devs to become completely out of touch with the actuall gameplay, thats just gonna do wonders for the game... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Major Stormer Caldari Red Storm Vendetta	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:51:00 - [17] Originally by: DB Preacher ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp Still trolling huh? Good luck with that. @OP Just pretend everyone you kill is a GM. Then the "problem" goes away ;) Red Storm Vendetta is now recruiting! Click me for more info
Gunstar Zero Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:52:00 - [18] Edited by: Gunstar Zero on 13/12/2006 13:54:14 CCP employees don't have enough time to play the game as well as we do ;-p.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Major Stormer Originally by: DB Preacher ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp Still trolling huh? Good luck with that. @OP Just pretend everyone you kill is a GM. Then the "problem" goes away ;) Aye, I'm the one claiming that ASCN are gm's and dev's, that we sploit, hax, cheat our way to victory, that we crash pc's remotely and god knows what other hilarious stuff they have come up with. It's awesome, absolutely awesome. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Mariko San Saints Surrounded	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:55:00 - [20] Originally by: DB Preacher ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp Why? You know as well as anyone that several GMs and even some Devs have characters in BoB. By the same token there are similar people in other alliances. I dont have an issue with this particularly. I do not doubt for one instant that certain information is leaked (i.e. get training this, this nerf is coming in) at a certain level within those alliances but so what, ce la vie. Trying to say it is not true is just .

Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 13/12/2006 13:53:02 Im confused, if the devs play eve as players and theryre better at it then you then whats the problem? Its not like they get free isk or super accounts. As for GMs admitting to be in Bob, am i right in guessing ASCN HC told you that? Originally by: Plan Neun They (CCP employee's) can play on the test server and let us (paying gamers) define the EVe-Univers without this "guiding hand" from CCP. Yeah lets force the devs to become completely out of touch with the actuall gameplay, thats just gonna do wonders for the game... It's no IF, they are a part of the game. That is not good at all. "I Will Drug You and Fluff You, through the permafrost"
Gardiner Minmatar Silver Star Federation Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:55:00 - [22] Okey, i read upto part of Gm's in bob... personaly i dont like bob, and they kicked SA's ass in past. but i say to u. take it like a man and stfu leave the fcking GM's alone... they work there ass off not to be ****ed at. "with intimate knowledge of the game at a level most players can't possibly achieve" u say this? i say learn the game and stop moaning sorry for outburst.. lol
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:55:00 - [23] GM's/Dev's/etc don't get any special treatment in eve bar, perhaps not paying monthly for their account (I assume anyway). And there are plenty players in EVE that can "exploit" in game systems to a higher degree than any GM/Dev/etc can, otherwise they wouldn't need said players to test things on the test (and live server). Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Dekiri Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:56:00 - [24] The rumors about this all come from people who have been owned in game and are bitter. This is not new, this is normal in MMORPG's. The only statements i know of regarding Dev's GM's playing eve i ever heard officially was that many of them play and that they are scattered all over eve in different corps. The "heads" of CCP don't play anymore. Hilmar and Oveur both to my knowledge quit playing activly, because they are involved with the game so much that they don't have the time really and the drive to spend all their private life on eve as well. If there was any favorism or cheating with GM or Dev chars it would be figured out. You either believe EVERYONE at CCP is cheating on the game (wich is really ridiculous because they built the game and would not destroy it and the vision they have for it) or it is impossible that it happens. I am 100% sure that CCP is tracking the staff members logs on their dev accounts to assure there is no cheating. To my knowledge there has only been a single incident of a GM cheating and he was instantly fired and the damage caused was "fixed" NOONE has been able to proove anything in that regard yet and i doubt that this will ever happen. If someone for example in BoB was a GM or Dev who would be cheating it would be impossible to keep sectret for long. It is just human nature that secrets will be revealed at some point because someone is **ed at his superior or something like that. In conclusion: your post is pointless nonsense. --------------------------------- My dad can beat up your dad!**
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:56:00 - [25] Heh, I can hardly catch up to the responses, though most of them completely miss the point. I'm happy with CCP having players in the game as it keeps them in touch with both how the code really works and with the player base. I also don't think any CCP employee in his right mind would use his influence to harm the players. I was just hoping to become enlightened as to the situation and hopefully getting some commentary on what it means in a global sense.
DirtyHarry Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:57:00 - [26] So DEVs and GMs shouldnt be able to experience the game they created/manage? STFU seriously, as for GMs admiting they are members of XYZ corp, send it to a HGM or contact Kieron, but ofc you and I both know your sprouting **** and have nothing to back it up. Havocide - DirtyHarryF-E Homepage F-E Killboard
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Plan Neun Edited by: Plan Neun on 13/12/2006 13:52:05 Note: Personal op I don't agree in this at all, absoletely all the CCP Avatars on tranq server should be deleted ASAP. Why, because of conflict of interest. The CCP staff is humans the temptation to cross borders is no _less_ tempting than a CEO from a stocktrader firm that is only "advising" the sitting president about stocks in f.ex USA. They (CCP employee's) can play on the test server and let us (paying gamers) define the EVe-Univers without this "guiding hand" from CCP. Cheers Plan Neun I disagree one BIG advantages of GM's playing the game they work for is they know the problems the average player has. I'm sure its alot easier for them to understand than if they hadn't ever played the game before.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:57:00 - [28] I think the pros heavily outweigh the cons. There's rumors that the first alliance in-game ever was a dev experiment to see if it could be done. Having devs play the game on the live server in all levels of game-play allows them to understand their own game, something which I doubt we're unhappy with. There's only so much you can theorize / test on SiSi. Playing on the production environment should help a ton with balance questions, etc. So yes, by all means the devs should play this game on TQ. Of course they cannot use their gm hax powers and the information they get out of playing their own game is invaluable for the developers. - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:58:00 - [29] Read this post by t20 Blog
DeadProphet Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:59:00 - [30] having devs that DON'T play their game is a BAD idea. they need to understand how it works, and what the playerbase wants/thinks etc. as for the 'BoB is full of GMs!!1' tinfoilery again, give it a rest eh

Alakazam Bob The Builder Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky CCP has roughly 100 employees. Most of those are people who are mature and quite frankly old, a great portion of them have spent more than 6 years working on their dream project wich is EVE online. The founders have been living this dream since 1997, thats nine years. Do you seriously think that these people would allow their fellow employees to mess with a dream thats been almost a decade in the making? This is not quake or counterstrike, cheating has long lasting effects on the economy and the very future of EVE online. Read the Dev blogs of Oveur to fully understand that he is a man that lives the EVE dream not to get killmails or Sovereignity victories. Read Skellibjallas blog and think why he should spend time cheating in eve to gain fame, go on read all the dev blogs and wonder if those people are cheating their dreams and occupation. Go on... the OP is not about what actually a CCP doing anything pro or con anyone, he's just proposing that they shouldn't be allowed to play so that there are absolute no doubt that they don't do anything they shouldn't.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Mariko San Originally by: DB Preacher ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp Why? You know as well as anyone that several GMs and even some Devs have characters in BoB. By the same token there are similar people in other alliances. No actually, I haven't got a clue if there are or aren't. Neither do you, and neither do ASCN. But what is absolutely fantastic about all this is that instead of ASCN actually looking for the real reasons behind their complete and utter failure as a 0.0 power, they are trying to blame it on GM's, Hax's, cheating, excuses, pc's blowing up and everything else. As a dev of another game myself I can look at this impartially and say that ALL of this is absolutely and utterly hilarious, Keep it up ASCN you are destroying your alliance faster than we ever could have, dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:01:00 - [33] Edited by: Nez Perces on 13/12/2006 14:04:46 ...and the fun continues... soo.. I think all your questions will be answered once Malochon decides to grace us with his presence..... Originally by: Malochon Draco, Exceed Inc pilot Some things can't be proven, even if they are true. Other things I know are bound by confidentiality, to which I am coming dangerously close of breaking. I've probably already said more than I should have according to some, but depending on how it goes from here, if it all doesn't matter anymore to the people involved, it will come out. I can't say more until I talked to some people about our course of action from here on out, but if it is up to me you will hear exactly what happened. Regardless of the consequences for Eve and CCP. Your post assumes what Malochon implies, that not only are there GM's in BoB (like there may well be in any number of alliances).. but that they congregate in order to.. and I quote ... "end up controlling a significant chunk of the playable area". Do you realise the implications of what your post implies or asks about? I really mean that, do you understand what this would mean if true? Where do you get this stuff from. Is it spoonfed to you by your HC? ... or do you have a shred of evidence to support it? Unbelievable, ASCN hits hard times and off we go with these CCP theories. Why is it that only when alliances lose stuff does this topic rear its ugly head? I wonder if BoB was losing Delve or Period Basis, would we get ASCN players implying or asking the same questions about CCP... I wonder. [edit:typo]
Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:02:00 - [34] Edited by: Plan Neun on 13/12/2006 14:18:50 Originally by: Aen Bolusova Heh, I can hardly catch up to the responses, though most of them completely miss the point. I'm happy with CCP having players in the game as it keeps them in touch with both how the code really works and with the player base. I also don't think any CCP employee in his right mind would use his influence to harm the players. I was just hoping to become enlightened as to the situation and hopefully getting some commentary on what it means in a global sense. What garantee do we have that this gamers is not messing with politics, giving items etc etc, hints etc etc and therefore manipulate the game. We have none. And when we see whats going on in RL around the world what makes us think that the employee's in CCP has higher human standards. I dont buy the garantees from CCP at all because of the human factor to error (greed etc, personal gain, taking sides in wars etc). Such participation should be illegal, thats my opinion on this topic. Cheers Signing off Galnet Plan Neun "I Will Drug You and Fluff You, through the permafrost"
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:03:00 - [35] I used to GM in the last game i played, there was only 2 sides in that and i only fought for one (even though people could and did swap sides much to the consternation of most others) my GM tools gave me the ability to cross sides when ever needed, to see both sides secure command channels, and to see everyone on the battlefield as opposed to just the one side a normal player would see. i had no problem what so ever of keeping my passion for the one side completely seperate from my completely unbiased duties as a GM, not only that but neither did 99% of my GM colleagues. ofc the GM's here play the game, but you can bet your arse that CCP has made it clear in no uncertain terms that the 2 shall never mix, and if they do, and are caught doing sillies, said caught GM will be out gone and banned for life. When you love something the last thing you want to do is fak it all up by being stupid, any GM in any game anywhere knows this it's not exactly rocket science. in fact i'd say from personal experience that you need to give GM's some credit, because they aren't as a rule stupid. imho Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:05:00 - [36] Originally by: DirtyHarry So DEVs and GMs shouldnt be able to experience the game they created/manage? Seriously, man, you didn't even read the post. Originally by: Blacklight Read this post by t20 Thanks Blacklight, that's pretty much what I was looking for. They're here, but the consequences of their discovery is severe.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:05:00 - [37] @op grow up devs playing the game can only help the game, and i think the eve devs have by far enough credibilty to not suspect them for any misbehaviour every alliance that wins has either A) GM's B) Sploiters C) Devs D) Haxers in short: start taking the anti-paranoia pills again plz ___________________________________
Dekiri Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:06:00 - [38] Oh yea... if the GM's and Dev's would not spent a certain time on playing the game it would suck like most other games do. You need to be in touch with a product you develope and need to know about it to be able to do anything in it. Just imagine people who are there to balance a game would not play it???? Especially in eve with all the fitting possibilities it would completly go downhill .... I really wonder why some people can't think a bit and try to understand a bit more instead of just complaining... --------------------------------- My dad can beat up your dad!
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:08:00 - [39] Oh, and by the way, attributing what anyone in ASCN says to the whole of the alliance is just absurd. I don't speak for the alliance, and I certainly don't want to put any blame on BoB. It's been a lot of fun so far, to be honest. I just wanted to know more about this one aspect of the game. I believe my initial worries were mostly unfounded, and I'm happy that is the case.
Extreme Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:09:00 - [40] I don't care about anyones opinion. Aen Bolusova made a valid point; 1. CCP's integrity (involving employee's playing Eve) 2. CCP's credability (too many 'things' happened) 3. "Infested" Eve-TV (last Tournament was "clan" TV) Somehow, somewhere, CCP got an image problem. Definately some measures should be taken by CCP leadership to restore all 3 points. . .

qrac Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:09:00 - [41] Originally by: DB Preacher No actually, I haven't got a clue if there are or aren't. Neither do you, and neither do ASCN. But I do and I think you do too even though you aren't in evol Do I think they cheat? No. -------------------------------------------
Ranko Antares Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:09:00 - [42] Edited by: Ranko on 13/12/2006 14:12:13 Another paranoia based post and/or thread replies. Its common knowledge that Devs and GMs play this game, both in an official capacity, as advertised by their ISD corp. status etc. We also know they have normal player-made accounts which are members of various alliances and corp., come on its their game they can play it as mere mortals too you know. Its also common knowledge that the tools that empower a GM or a DEV to do their job in an official capacity of a CCP employee are also stored under lock-and-key security within CCP HQ its self, the tools they use never leave the premises of CCP and this is the fundamental reasons why each and every single GM and/or dev/employee of CCP is relocated to Iceland, there is not one EVE:Online (CCP) employee who requires the GM/Dev toolset based outside of Iceland (China GMs, and DEVs withstanding, they are in Shanghi). If the GMs and Devs wish to play the game as normal, they canÆt use their official empowered accounts by default (apart from Event staff, which play from within the building :P ) they play normal accounts either in their office (lol I want that kind of job) or play outside their working hours... They are limited to the same game mechanics that you and I are limited too; they canÆt empower their own accounts just because they are Devs or GMs.... ThereÆs been one recorded event in history that a new GM that did abuse their powers and gave out a lot of high powered items, that GM I believe was booted out of CCP so hard and fast, I think he left a skid mark on the runway at Heathrow when he landed (figuratively speaking). So all this chatter and slander about various GMs and/or Devs abusing their CCP related accounts to benefit others and their 'normal' accounts is stupid, yes they know more about game mechanics and the technology behind EVE a lot more then you or I do, of course they do they work for CCP, they help maintain and/or design the very code base we use to play on. BUT they can not use their knowledge in anyway, shape or form to which would give any extraordinary beneficial precedence to their normal accounts, any corp. they are in relations with or any alliance their normal non-empowered accounts are members of. Sure they know ways of 'cheating', 'hacking', 'abusing' the system, would they do it? No they wouldnÆt, itÆs not their 5-6 digit salary. So think, before you unwittingly slander and abuse various CCP and EVE:Online employees, not everyone is as paranoid in nature as you are. ThatÆs my 2 pence on this subject I now await the rebuttals, slander and abuse I am about to receive due to this post. Edit: Typos etc --- fixed my sig images from 24,241 bytes to 23,997 bytes ^_^
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Ranko Edited by: Ranko on 13/12/2006 14:10:29 ThereÆs been one recorded event in history that a new GM that did abuse their powers and gave out a lot of high powered items, that GM I believe was booted out of CCP so hard and fast, I think he left a skid mark on the runway at Heathrow when he landed (figuratively speaking). So all this chatter and slander about various GMs and/or Devs abusing their CCP related accounts to benefit others and their 'normal' accounts if stupid... It's only stupid if the situation you described is common knowledge, and it's not. That's why I asked.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:16:00 - [44] At least PapaSmurf is still lowsec ganker pirate in some well known corporation. Mostly all dev's still play for gankfest. I don't know many devs who are hisec empire huggers "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:17:00 - [45] I couldn't pass up the opportunity to post this one. O RLY <3 Dont post pictures directly, link to them instead please. I fixed it for you this time. - Devil Hanzo .... Real men use blasters
qrac Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:21:00 - [46] Edited by: qrac on 13/12/2006 14:21:22 Did this thread disappear or something? I can't find it without using a direct link. edit: ahh.. they moved it. -------------------------------------------
Ranko Antares Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:22:00 - [47] Originally by: Aen Bolusova It's only stupid if the situation you described is common knowledge, and it's not. That's why I asked. There was a Dev-Blog about this ohh a few months back I belive, but I could be incorrect about such matters. --- fixed my sig images from 24,241 bytes to 23,997 bytes ^_^
ScoRpS 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:25:00 - [48] tbh i would be more concerned if devs didnt moonlight in the game, it should give them a good idea of whats goin on at grass roots level and make more informed changes with each new patch. Its like salesmen who believe in their product so much that they use it themselves! And i am sure Oveur would do unspeakable things to any member of his staff caught abusing their privelages!
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:25:00 - [49] Originally by: Ranko There was a Dev-Blog about this ohh a few months back I belive, but I could be incorrect about such matters. If you've got a title or link I'd appreciate it. I'm not sure why my honest questions were worthy of so much acrimony. I guess that's par for the Eve-online course.
Jap theBlind Minmatar The Wanderers	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:28:00 - [50] Having a fleet battle against BoB, one year ago so discard the ASCN thing. It's a regular fleet battle, nothing special. A GM pops in and pats on the back of several BoB pilots. Does this prove anything? No, it does not. Maybe it's enough to raise some questions, but nothing more.

DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:28:00 - [51] Edited by: DB Preacher on 13/12/2006 14:28:33 Originally by: Aen Bolusova Oh, and by the way, attributing what anyone in ASCN says to the whole of the alliance is just absurd. I don't speak for the alliance, and I certainly don't want to put any blame on BoB. It's been a lot of fun so far, to be honest. I just wanted to know more about this one aspect of the game. I believe my initial worries were mostly unfounded, and I'm happy that is the case. Then perhaps, just perhaps, you shouldn't have said: Originally by: Aen Bolusova I was told recently that a number of GMs have admitted that they're in BoB. I don't know if this is true or not, but it makes me wonder. As for us not attributing one post to the whole of an alliance... that would be fine if it wasn't the majority of your alliance posting ridiculous claims on the forums. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
ApophisXP Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:29:00 - [52] Edited by: ApophisXP on 13/12/2006 14:28:52 stop moaning just cause ur alliance lost ur strongest asset. The GM's that do play dont have enough time as it is to play to our level. Most of the time theyre working on GM thingies like petitions or fixing stuff. The last thing they need is for wingy minge bags like urself to start punching holes in them and ruining their day. To end it. Grow up. If you dont wanna grow up, get a coke, sit down and stfu.
Zeknichov Amarr Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:31:00 - [53] If they don't play the game then they can't make proper changes to improve the game. If they are not allowed to play the game why would they want to invest their efforts into something when they can't even reap the benefits. Developers playing the game is for the best. I'd rather developers make changes to the game based on their impressions from playing the game then make changes based on what will give them a higher profit margin. Sure CCP could screw up their game if they were power hungry but I have more faith in the devs then that.
vipeer Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:31:00 - [54] I hope you all agree that if one pilot warps into a fleet of 50+ ships and the consequence of that is in 100% destruction of his ship within seconds. This person then petitions the loss and his ship is reimbursed on grounds of lagging out apparently. ASCN was the 50+ ships and a person not in ASCN was the one who got blown up in a full faction kitted ship. Dunno about you but it sure raised my eybrows... All conspiracy theories aside: A lot of odd "things" took place since BoBo declared on us. Starting with the constant node crashes and people complaining about not getting their ships back or getting ships back after 2-3 weeks. "Things" continued throughout the war. Oddly enough node never crashed when there were GMs in local... I agree a lot of deaths were caused by people not being good at pvp. The war took a U turn after 3 weeks of constant node crashes and ASCN fleet ALWAYS being on the receiving end of the punishment and CCP could not care less about it. People were sick of loosing ships to CCP, lag, node crashes, fleets dissapearing, screwed up POS timers... A very strange was the occurence when a GM told us that sharing accounts is legal and after we responded citing the EULA promptly deleted the petition. Thank you CCP for an excellent game but when the people working for you are blowing off and dismissing the opinions of 5000 account holders of the makers of 0.0 the way it was meant to be you should expect an uproar.
Vala Draaken Gallente Madhatters Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:31:00 - [55] It's not the first time this question has come up. Originally by: "Gnauton" I can tell you for sure that most of the devs who play the game (about 20 or so, to the best of my knowledge) are noob- to mid-level players. There's only one I can think of that can reasonably be called "uber," and that's just because he was an utterly manic EVE player long long before being hired. ... Sometimes, if what we're asking about is an implemented feature, we'll be able to wrest an answer from the programmer or designer in question. Most often, though, the answer is the same: "Ask the players," delivered in that same tone, betraying a cynical sort of wonder at how utterly our players dominate us at our own game. From this post. Hope that explains, Vala D.
Hitomi Ito Caldari F13	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Plan Neun Edited by: Plan Neun on 13/12/2006 14:18:50 I dont buy the garantees from CCP at all because of the human factor to error (greed etc, personal gain, taking sides in wars etc). I don't really get where you're coming from. You seem to think them playing involves them constantly having access to tools/information that puts them leagues above us when they don't. Not to mention that, as many others have posted, the higher-ups at CCP wouldn't allow them to "ruin" the game by flooding the economy with spawned ISK/items/ships. To those that say there's a conflict of interest. Exactly what interest? And if there's a CCP employee playing char that's in BoB and another that's in ASCN, what does that prove? Seriously, I'm pretty sure they all play just like you and I do. Better yet, they just might do what we do and talk about what they, heck, maybe even brag a little. Unless there's a blatant bias (ALL of them are in BoB, which you can't prove) there's no conflict of interest. @OP: It's been common practice for Devs/GM to play the game they work on since MMOGs were created. Every company does log tracking, especially of GM tool/command use, so I doubt it would ever be a problem for CCP. You can't please everyone either, there's always going to be someone that doesn't like X because of Y. Just so happens that this is one of those cases and it's much easier to pull it on the people who run the show. Food for thought, what if they told you they weren't allowed to play and continued to do so? You'd never know and suddenly the "CCP is doing bad things!" argument would be dead, but they'd still be flying beside you or against you. It's weird how people work.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:34:00 - [57] Hypothetical Situation: Dev/GM/Employee XYZ comes across petition. Petition leads him to learn information regarding his in-game enemy ABC. I don't think the OP is talking about spawning isk for yourself, your alliance, your friends, msetting mobs, sseting chars, osetting modules, or whatever the commands would be in EVE. It's a perfectly reasonable question to wonder if people in a position to have such endless possibilities, are going to pursue any of those possibilities. Have you ever wondered what happens if you petition your POS that you've setup in enemy territory and the person who deals with it knows exactly every setting etc. in it? How about all those logs the employee's of CCP sift through all the time? I could imagine there is some pretty nifty stuff they find out all the time =P --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:35:00 - [58] I think my concerns have been addressed. Thanks for the information, those that provided some. The rest of you can continue to throw monkey ****. Cheers all.
Hitomi Ito Caldari F13	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:37:00 - [59] At some point I'd like to think the people saying CCP employees use information to their advantage would think that maybe, just MAYBE, they have more to do outside of a video game. Especially when said actions might risk their job. Just saying...
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:37:00 - [60] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 13/12/2006 14:40:11 Edited by: Nev Clavain on 13/12/2006 14:38:59 Originally by: DB Preacher Aye, I'm the one claiming that ASCN are gm's and dev's, that we sploit, hax, cheat our way to victory, that we crash pc's remotely and god knows what other hilarious stuff they have come up with. It's awesome, absolutely awesome. dbp No one is really claiming that. Perhaps nuance and the tone of a post escapes you utterly, but the guy was talking about a potential conflict of interest, not about BoB Haxploits rahrahrah. He happened to use your alliance as an example, and you came storming in all guns blazing. To be honest, it would stun me if your alliance didn't have one or two people who can make critical game decisions. GMs and Devs play this game too. Why is it impossible that some could be in BoB, or ASCN, or any corp/ alliance anywhere? The fact that your reaction is so over the top is probably the most suspicious thing in this thread. But then you rarely seem to be able to control yourself, so it is in character at least. My personal opinion is that people who have a position of responsibility like GM or Dev within the game, are for the mostpart going to be trustworthy and diligent, and will not use thier influence to bend the game in their favour. I am also sure there are multiple safe-guards (lol F E G is filtered now? sa***uards) to prevent the abuse of GM/ Dev powers, and that any actions they take will be logged thoroughly via independent systems, and scrutinised at the first sign of foul play. The positive side is that it is important that Devs and GMs know how the game is to play, so they can help to develop / manage it in the best way. There is of course a potential for abuse, but I would hope that this is mitigated by stringent checks and balances.

Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:41:00 - [61] Originally by: Aen Bolusova I think my concerns have been addressed. Thanks for the information, those that provided some. The rest of you can continue to throw monkey ****. Cheers all. I see now I red your OP way to fast , seems like we agree on this principal matter. Take care and fly safe. Cheers Plan Neun "I Will Drug You and Fluff You, through the permafrost"
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:46:00 - [62] AFIK all CCP employees, are required to have at least one active account. Only one GM/employee has ever been fired for useing his "power" in the wrong way. And when asked if they cheat or would they cheat to get the upper hand...."Are you kidding, its not worth my job" IMHO all CCP employees have left BoB...and are in other non-spotlighted corps and alliances by now. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Agrias Hellion Diligentia Sodalitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:46:00 - [63] Op does have a slight point. If one group of devs are in one alliance and that alliance starts moving forward it could be said that they had an unfair advantage, like it or not devs have knowledge of game mechanics that others may not. An example would be, using recent events, a GM is a member of BoB and is the GM who receives the petition about the recently dispatched Titan. He/she may have even taken part in its destruction. Could the owner of the titan expect to receive a completely unbiased invstigation and subsequent conclusion? Are there safe guards in place to prevent potentially biased decisions taking place? On the flip side having CCP employees ingame helps in game development, it allows them to hear opinions out of these forums. They can find the borked game mechanics and make plans on fixing them. A very good thing in my opinion. To the people who mention paranoia, or growing up. It's the fact I am grown up with plenty of life experience that tells me it's good to be paranoid. People are scum, and even those people who understand morals and apply them to their own actions can make biased decisions. Need Some Sig Loving.
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:18:00 - [64] Originally by: Agrias Hellion Could the owner of the titan expect to receive a completely unbiased invstigation and subsequent conclusion? Are there safe guards in place to prevent potentially biased decisions taking place? I believe we have to assume the answer to both questions is 'yes' unless we have some evidence to the contrary. This is a big picture issue, and goes beyond the particulars of the ASCN-BoB conflict. It's about the integrity of CCP and EVE.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:20:00 - [65] This is my personal conspiracy theory about the Devs. Yes, they play EvE. But not for th3 ph3w ph3w or ph4t l00t. I think they play (and prolly in both big and small alliances) to experience who they work and how well they work. And if the alliances do work as they should. I doubt they will do it for personal gain because they own it all allready, so what can they gain? They play the game on a level that all their customers don't. Or, and this is my 2nd theory, they are pretty tired of EvE after 8-12 hours of coding it, reading our whines and fighting everyday problems. So they go home and watch some TV and play WoW ducks and covers
Apolitos	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:23:00 - [66] Topic is wrng, CCP And White Wolf, they merged so add them too. They are part of our in game life now. Thank you.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:27:00 - [67] Originally by: Aen Bolusova Originally by: Agrias Hellion Could the owner of the titan expect to receive a completely unbiased invstigation and subsequent conclusion? Are there safe guards in place to prevent potentially biased decisions taking place? I believe we have to assume the answer to both questions is 'yes' unless we have some evidence to the contrary. This is a big picture issue, and goes beyond the particulars of the ASCN-BoB conflict. It's about the integrity of CCP and EVE. In the rest of the world, nobody assumes 'yes' to questions like this. Why would you have integrity rules, chinese walls and all that stuff and still have people getting fired by the busload for doing stupid **** at work? Fishy things are going on. Extremely fishy.
qrac Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:31:00 - [68] Originally by: Roshan longshot IMHO all CCP employees have left BoB...and are in other non-spotlighted corps and alliances by now. Nope, they're still in BoB. I don't know if they still play on those chars but they have more or less stopped posting on the forums with their chars at least. I have to date seen no proof of them cheating and until proven otherwise I'm going to presume that they don't. -------------------------------------------
Aen Bolusova Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:37:00 - [69] Edited by: Aen Bolusova on 13/12/2006 15:38:09 Originally by: Malachon Draco In the rest of the world, nobody assumes 'yes' to questions like this. Why would you have integrity rules, chinese walls and all that stuff and still have people getting fired by the busload for doing stupid **** at work? I would hope as honorable men and women we would also begin with the supposition that everyone else is equally honorable, and let their actions reveal the truth. Otherwise, we'd be like DB Preacher shudder That would be a death worse than fate!
LynxArd UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:39:00 - [70] well kudos to the op for posting a valid question with his main, after reading the pathetic apology post by spirajunkie its a valid question, thx to the BOB guy who linked t20's post was very interesting and sad to hear he lost his main.

K24Q	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:40:00 - [71] Edited by: K24Q on 13/12/2006 15:42:06 Having not read all the post, in response to the original post ccp employees have played eve before and had caused some trouble (though not intentionally). I refer you back to pre tech 2 days when a lone pilot stumbles on a dev flying a jovian frigate. A conversation took places and said dev gave the curious pilot his mining lasers. The dev hadn't realised that these mining laser where of a tech 4 calibre extremely good. Any ways news spread and these items where brought for large sums on in game money by a large corp hoping to reverse engineer them in the future(irony). Eventually Devs realised their mistake and asked for the return of said laser in exchange for Tech II mining laser BPO (the first one ingame- a licence to print money). This whole episode just highlights the need for employees to be careful when playing their game. At the very least they should not have a position of power which they did not earn via in game means. As for GMs and Devs sorting problems like spanking a pirate who was ganking in highsec and tanking concord fair do it was essentially an exploit of the game mechanics and instead of banning they just spanked him/her. My point is it has happened before and I think CCP learnt a few lessons from it. Though the accusations that the big alliances have inside information I see no proof and I'm such a small fish in a massive pond it has little bearing on me even if this was the case.
MMXMMX Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:40:00 - [72] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Major Stormer Originally by: DB Preacher ASCN have utterly and completely lost the plot. It's absolutely fantastic. dbp Still trolling huh? Good luck with that. @OP Just pretend everyone you kill is a GM. Then the "problem" goes away ;) Aye, I'm the one claiming that ASCN are gm's and dev's, that we sploit, hax, cheat our way to victory, that we crash pc's remotely and god knows what other hilarious stuff they have come up with. It's awesome, absolutely awesome. dbp Hmmm why do u feel the need to defand your self when there is no attack ? Strange
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:44:00 - [73] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 13/12/2006 15:49:17 Originally by: qrac Originally by: Roshan longshot IMHO all CCP employees have left BoB...and are in other non-spotlighted corps and alliances by now. Nope, they're still in BoB. I don't know if they still play on those chars but they have more or less stopped posting on the forums with their chars at least. That's twice you speak of this with some serious conviction. The first time you said that members of [Evol] should know what you mean. I've been in Evolution since 2004 now. Tell me, who of us is the dev eh ? I'm sure it's not me, since if i was a dev this game would have gone down the drain long ago already, not to mention that I'd ave done alot less dev-insulting on these forums had I been one of them, right ? So, evemail me, I'd seriously like to know. Old blog
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:44:00 - [74] OMG TIN-FOIL HATTERY!! passes around tin-foil hats by the thousends PUT THEM ON WHILE YOU CAN!! My point? 2 simple things 1. Of course they should be allowed to play their own game!! DUH! Mention 1! game to me where the devs of a game aren't allowed to play it themselves..just 1 please. 2. Like one bright person mentioned...CCP logs everything..certainly they'd log all commands being executed and by whom, and all know which dev is in what player corp/alliance..so you think they'd just be allowed to get away with it? BUZZZ No! Stop yer darn retarded tin-foil yammering, leave them alone and let them play the game like everyone else! -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Soporo	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:46:00 - [75] Like some dude earlier said, I think the benefit outweighs the potential risks. I WANT the Devs to encounter the same retarded random problems I and other people are having about whatever. Playing is the only other way to see this, aside from examining petitions. That having been said, if you think people arent gonna be people and make friends and wish those friends do well....then your out of your tree. I dont think they would do or say or let slip things that would hurt or trouble a large group of people, but I can easily see someone saying to a good friend : "oh btw, might wanna pick up X BPO, no matter the cost,NOW."

kieron	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:49:00 - [76] Yes, the Devs and GMs play EVE. We have to to understand not only the game mechanics, but the concerns of the players. Are we entrusted with a lot? Absolutely, but the penalties for misconduct are just as large. Staff have been fired for misconduct and if someone in the company abuses their position, they will meet with the same punishment. Last time I checked, being on the winning side of a war or fleet engagement didn't pay the house note. Personally, I think that is more than sufficient deterrent. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Plan Neun Caldari Ganja Unlimited Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:51:00 - [77] Edited by: Plan Neun on 13/12/2006 15:54:01 Originally by: Soporo Like some dude earlier said, I think the benefit outweighs the potential risks. I WANT the Devs to encounter the same retarded random problems I and other people are having about whatever. Playing is the only other way to see this, aside from examining petitions. That having been said, if you think people arent gonna be people and make friends and wish those friends do well....then your out of your tree. I dont think they would do or say or let slip things that would hurt or trouble a large group of people, but I can easily see someone saying to a good friend : "oh btw, might wanna pick up X BPO, no matter the cost,NOW." And all this retarded problems we encounter on the tranq server can be re-created and simulated in a closed enviroment. They could even recreate us all as NPC's with all the good and bad habits we have during gameplay Cheers Plan Neun Now im signing off Galnet "I Will Drug You and Fluff You, through the permafrost"
Ellohem Viziam	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:56:00 - [78] Edited by: Ellohem on 13/12/2006 15:59:03 Firstly... this is my main, check it out if you like... Secondly some, note i said some and not all!! people in this thread are way out of line... DB Preacher for 1... Mate a simple question was asked. The OP may be a member of ASCN, but that does not mean the question was from ASCN... the question was from a member of the EVE comunity, so is there any need to be so hostile towards someone who asked a simple question? NO This back stabing and slagging people off on the forums and in game is just petty and childish, simple as that, if you feel you cant answer the question with a resonable answer, then dont post, its not rocket science people, its just manners Rant over, carry on
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:01:00 - [79] Its all true! DB Preacher himself is a dev! ...for another game company. But hes a dev!!! And thats all the proof you need! Seriously though, don't you think having devs play in alliances is actually a GOOD thing, since it gives them firsthand experience with the game mechanics and situations that alliance members have to deal with. Would you really want the devs in a game as complicated as this to not actually play the game the same way the players do? Nemo me impune lacessit
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:31:00 - [80] I think it's a safe bet there's at least one dev in every major alliance, not just BoB. And I think it's a great idea. It gives them an inside look at the game the way the players see it, helps them find areas of improvement and lets them see what players really think about things when they're not talking to a dev. Kind of like how a captain can't get the full picture on what his crew thinks in a situation, because the crew always behaves differently around the captain. So hello to whichever dev was/still is a part of the Stain Alliance group I have my suspicions...

Frankinator Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:34:00 - [81] Originally by: Bayroo WHO WANTS MY STUFF!!! First! me!
Bayroo Gallente Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:35:00 - [82]
Agrias Hellion Diligentia Sodalitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:35:00 - [83] The idea of a dev only corp of uber pwnage does sound interesting though. My new sig! Yes I need practice!
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:36:00 - [84] Edited by: DeckardIRL on 13/12/2006 16:46:57 Have to disagree and say that if Devs want to play then they must remain members of Faction NPC Corps. If they are now in Game they MUST be tagged as being a Dev or CCP employee. I think anything else is unacceptable and always leaves a question. I saw Kierons reply but there is no way you can police your employees that tightly. Its not possible. Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know
Scifa Caldari Fat Bold Men	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [85] Originally by: Arntdec Personnaly I see no problem in CCP staff playing EvE, as long as they do not band together. Like, say... Brothers?!?! Anyway it's all BS.
Doc Punkiller Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [86] Originally by: Arntdec Personnaly I see no problem in CCP staff playing EvE, as long as they do not band together. How would you know if it's not already the case ? I'm exagerating a bit, i guess that it's not the case, but more transparency would be welcome.
Karnov Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Karnov on 13/12/2006 16:46:27 Originally by: Malachon Draco So you're admitting here it has happened, and if I take you litterally, even more than once ("Staff have been fired" sounds like more than 1 occasion. So that means that the risk of dismissal is apparently not enough of a sa***uard in and of itself. Secondly, are you certain you can catch all types of 'abuse'? Specifically: 1. Sure you log your Dev/GM actions, but do you/can you also prevent Devs from telling alliance mates beforehand on upcoming changes/nerfs? 2. Do you prevent devs from informing members of certain very obscure design features? 3. Do you prevent GMs from telling alliance buddies about exploits that they might have encountered in the game, but which CCP can't track or doesn't consider a punishable offense yet? 4. Would you find it appropriate if a large majority of your Bughunters were all member of the same alliance, thus gaining advance knowledge on certain things? The only time I can recall someone abusing powers was a GM, who was caught same day. Evidently he weas new and logs clearly showed a breach. Unlike you the players with "evidence" petitioned and the matter was dealt with instead of the mere suggestion of this all knowing you continue to spout. As stated "repeatedly" if you have evidence either state it or petition it. If you don't then we can all assume your posturing is just empty rhetoric. I'm guessing this has something to do with the insinuation by a certain person who lost a ship about undocumented bugs, do explain that one while you at it. SamuraiJack > I will post a picture of my ass in a thong on eve-o if you win
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:39:00 - [88] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 13/12/2006 16:39:54 I believe that there a non-disclosure agreement is in force. If someone tells you that they're an alt of a GM or dev, and they're telling the truth they are risking the sack. If they're lying, then they risk getting banned as I think that impersonating a CCP employee is against the EULA. So if someone ever claims to be a GM or dev alt, you should report them. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:41:00 - [89] i think the Dev's should play their own game... lol they should be subjected to the good and bad... how can they fix something they know nothing first hand about it? i have not played a game where the dev's do not play, although i would agree they need to be tagged so you know they are devs... and can run from the fast Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
LC Sulla BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:44:00 - [90] I think this all gets taken a little out of context. Nobody in their right mind cares if Devs play the game at alliance level. So they should. Just need to make sure all the checks and balances are there so staff don't abuse the position. It gets a little more burred if the devs (more generally CCP staff) are leaders or senior people within a major alliance. We all know how passionate people can get about their alliances. It gets even more blurry if the most senior people in CCP are also senior people in alliances. See... none of this has anything to do with 'corruption'. I believe CCP is more than professional enough to have systems in place to stop such behaviour. It's more that CCP employees have 'insider' knowledge of both the game dynamics and the changes that are ahead. The rest of us just don't have access to that information. To be honest it's a very thorny issue.

Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:45:00 - [91] It's absolutely necessary for the Devs to play the [expletive] game! If they stop doing that, eventually their ideas of where the game is supposed to go and where it's actually heading are two completely different things. Keep in touch with the game itself, and its players, and you'll stay on track. So, game on, Devs! -- Thukkers do
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:46:00 - [92] Originally by: kieron Yes, the Devs and GMs play EVE. We have to to understand not only the game mechanics, but the concerns of the players. Are we entrusted with a lot? Absolutely, but the penalties for misconduct are just as large. Staff have been fired for misconduct and if someone in the company abuses their position, they will meet with the same punishment. Last time I checked, being on the winning side of a war or fleet engagement didn't pay the house note. Personally, I think that is more than sufficient deterrent. This is key to the point. You think I'd risk my home, my families welfare to win a battle, to get back a ship I lost... Don't be talking so crazy. KIA EVE Home
rig0r Arcane Industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:46:00 - [93] BoB killed our titan and all we got is this lousy forum. Creator of eve-killboard.net. Get the killboard here.
theRaptor Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:48:00 - [94] Originally by: Doc Punkiller Perfectly fair interogation. Ethically, ccp employee should not be able to play the game anonymously. As they have acess to sensitive information and that they are human, 100% trust can not be granted to them. What ethics are you nattering on about? They could come along and blow you up in their pimp titans (It is called Aurora :P) and there would be no ethical problem. The only problem would be if they as a group favoured a certain group of players in such activity. And that still wouldn't involve ethics. Not to mention that I expect CCP employees as professionals to behave with more decency then the average 14 year old smacktard. Especially as they are monitored. Never mind the fact that if they didn't play then this game would be as awesome as something made by SOE. Some of us do manage to rise above mere tribalism and personal preference and see things from other peoples perspective. I am absolutely sure there are few CCP employees of note playing a large role in the big alliances, simply because of how unanonymous notable people become in alliances (Im sure lots of Icelandic accents on TS would be noticed), and the amount of anti-CCP vitriol ("X alliance has GM's in it" "effing GM's gave back all the enemy ships lost in last nights fleet battle" blah blah). I am sure none of my regular contacts (of which a few are minor BoB personalities) are CCP because I would have gotten teh banz from all the *****ing I do in private :P I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:48:00 - [95] Originally by: Frankinator Originally by: Malachon Draco more random paranoia When is the proof coming tho? I think everybody is ready. Most of this stuff can't be proven, so what do you expect? Fact is we have a lot of people stating that indeed BoB has a number of GMs/Devs in its membership. Secondly we have Kieron admitting that indeed in the past staff have been sacked for inappropriate behaviour. Finally I am giving some examples of what Devs/GMs can do to unfairly benefit an alliance without ever being traceable by anyone. We now seem to be getting to the same old problem of the shifting discussion. First it was: - XXX alliance has no devs. Then when lots of people said: yeh, they do have devs, and no its not that bad, the discussion shifted: - Yes, they have devs, but they are checked over and over again they dont get a chance to cheat. Now we get Kieron stating that indeed staff has been punished, and I give examples of other things employees at CCP could cheat at without CCP ever finding out. As for the bughunters, its a rumor I heard, I'm sure someone can check the affiliation of all the bughunters working for CCP and their alliance affiliation.
Dumus Silver Service	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:50:00 - [96] WTS tin foil hats very cheep Get em whilst they are hot! -Dumus-
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:54:00 - [97] Well, at least you know there USED to be one cough 50b fitted scorp No matter what alliance they are in I doubt they would risk their employment by trying to influence in game situations. Certainly they will have certain advantages, but they are not leaps and bounds over what experienced players have. Save a miner, kill a farmer today
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:54:00 - [98] Originally by: Karnov Edited by: Karnov on 13/12/2006 16:46:27 Originally by: Malachon Draco So you're admitting here it has happened, and if I take you litterally, even more than once ("Staff have been fired" sounds like more than 1 occasion. So that means that the risk of dismissal is apparently not enough of a sa*uard in and of itself. Secondly, are you certain you can catch all types of 'abuse'? Specifically: 1. Sure you log your Dev/GM actions, but do you/can you also prevent Devs from telling alliance mates beforehand on upcoming changes/nerfs? 2. Do you prevent devs from informing members of certain very obscure design features? 3. Do you prevent GMs from telling alliance buddies about exploits that they might have encountered in the game, but which CCP can't track or doesn't consider a punishable offense yet? 4. Would you find it appropriate if a large majority of your Bughunters were all member of the same alliance, thus gaining advance knowledge on certain things? The only time I can recall someone abusing powers was a GM, who was caught same day. Evidently he weas new and logs clearly showed a breach. Unlike you the players with "evidence" petitioned and the matter was dealt with instead of the mere suggestion of this all knowing you continue to spout. As stated "repeatedly" if you have evidence either state it or petition it. If you don't then we can all assume your posturing is just empty rhetoric. I'm guessing this has something to do with the insinuation by a certain person who lost a ship about undocumented bugs, do explain that one while you at it. Actually I have been told the reason why the titan (or at least I've been told the claim about the reason) wasn't replaced even though it should have apparently, and it had nothing to do with BoB or anything. Let's call it a sensible 'business decision' on CCPs part, since replacement would have raised a **storm of unparalelled proportion, which I can understand, though I obviously don't agree with it. So no, it doesnt have to do with that. And as I stated, there are tons of ways for GMs and Devs to abuse their power without ever even setting a foot ingame. No logs exist of that.
D'an Y'eal Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:00:00 - [99] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky CCP has roughly 100 employees. Most of those are people who are mature and quite frankly old (SNIP) ROFL. I've seen the videos and you are 1/2 right.... they are old Originally by: Gardiner leave the fcking GM's alone... they work there ass off not to be **ed at. (SNIP) ROFL again...... You ever had contact with a GM? Originally by:** Dekiri The rumors about this all come from people who have been owned in game and are bitter. This is not new, this is normal in MMORPG's. (SNIP) zOMG! This is getting funny. /Me recollects fondly all the talk of M0o being GM's and dev alts, NOT!... people getting owned leads to this accusation, all-the-time? Tell you what folks, I'll break it down for you: 1. GMS, Devs, employees of CCP most certainly play the game. This is a good thing, it keeps them in touch with the reality of the game. 2. There are most certainly GM's, Devs, employees in ASCN, BoB, Trust, etc, etc. This is a morally neutral thing, neither bad nor good. 3. The OP was wondering if Devs "insider info" could be or is used. This is a perfectly valid question, although posting it here is kinda pointless tbh. Either post pics or STFU @Preacher Geez man, put your head in the sand much? The OP isn't going to get anything constructive out of this, but you Alliance taking control of some of his alliances territory (oh yeah corp espionage) and destroying his alliances Titan (oh yeah, was pilotless at the time) certainly show BoB's superior game play and tactical prowess without you resorting to childlike name calling.
Trak Cranker Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:01:00 - [100] Originally by: Ranko Another paranoia based post and/or thread replies. In all fairness I don't think the OP was so paranoid and/or implying that the devs cheated. He was just asking into the fact that the devs have intricate knowledge on the games rules and workings. I for one, don't share any concerns in that direction though. The players have consistently shown that they take the game where the devs did not quite expect. And any impact they can make with the little more knowledge is bound to be very small on the grand scale of things. And on top of that, as someone else pointed out, I think they have so much love for the project that they would not taint it with any improber meddling in that regard. The loss of them NOT playing actively would be much greater than any possible detriment I can think of.

Doc Punkiller Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:02:00 - [101] Originally by: theRaptor What ethics are you nattering on about? They could come along and blow you up in their pimp titans (It is called Aurora :P) and there would be no ethical problem. The only problem would be if they as a group favoured a certain group of players in such activity. And that still wouldn't involve ethics. In my opinion, CCP should ensure that every entities are evenly treated. If the word ethic dont fit, pick another one, but the idea is there.
Rennard Janissaries	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:03:00 - [102] Why is anytime a topic appears with GMs accused being BOB, some bob members come here and defend the GM`s? Being a former Polaris member, i remember some old TTI abusing their GM/volunteer powers to find good trade routes and tell them to their corp. I am very sure similar things happen like in BoB too, you just cannot track everything, you cannot log everything. About nerfs, changes, good trade locations, rare items, competitions, puzzles, hidden plexes etc. They just tell it over MIRC to their buddies, you cannot prove it. As former Polaris member, i saw TTI abuse with my own eyes and reported to "Pann" back at 2003, but i heard she didn`t do anything about it. So things like this actually happened in the past. GMs/DEVs must leave playing with their other accounts. It just brings unfairness to the game, they know all game mechanics even the hidden mechanics, everything about rare/hidden in game and they can just tell their buddies to go and farm it. Don`t tell me it doesn`t happen, it happened in the past, it will happen in future. It`s human nature, everybody helps the people they love. I personally don`t believe GMs/Devs/Volunteers are 100% Honest about what they are doing... For volunteers/bughunters, they should not be allowed to be a part of alliance or warring corp too. I know you got other accounts playing for free, so don`t come here and say you like helping people. I know of some people who just joined BH to have benefit of learning exploits before everyone else and abuse it before it gets fixed. Or sell it to websites like "pay us $$$ so we teach you xploits/hacks/macros about EvE", you know those sites just goggle it. So you cannot stop it, you cannot prove it, you cannot log everything, it will keep happening. The decision of having player accounts for Devs/GMS/Volunteers/BH were terrible idea in first place. Now i don`t know how can you fix this... ...Not playing EvE at the moment, currently hibernating and forum whoring...
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:07:00 - [103] Originally by: Malachon Draco Actually I have been told the reason why the titan (or at least I've been told the claim about the reason) wasn't replaced even though it should have apparently, and it had nothing to do with BoB or anything. Let's call it a sensible 'business decision' on CCPs part, since replacement would have raised a ***storm of unparalelled proportion, which I can understand, though I obviously don't agree with it. I've started to notice that I can predict when an ASCN member will say some stupid, because they always say "I've been told..." This statement is generally immediately followed by some ridiculous conspiracy theory. Nemo me impune lacessit*
PhamNuwen Caldari Bungee Jumper	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:12:00 - [104] Originally by: kieron Yes, the Devs and GMs play EVE. We have to to understand not only the game mechanics, but the concerns of the players. Are we entrusted with a lot? Absolutely, but the penalties for misconduct are just as large. Staff have been fired for misconduct and if someone in the company abuses their position, they will meet with the same punishment. Last time I checked, being on the winning side of a war or fleet engagement didn't pay the house note. Personally, I think that is more than sufficient deterrent. I hope, not only GMs and Devs are playing - I hope your architects and designers are also playing... Moreover they should have a obligation to play. Maybe this could protect us for crappy/unusable interface, too much lag and other handicaps in the game. Some nice task for the CCP-employed: - produce and research in different regions via remote production/remote research - collect something via map and assets across the univers if you have assets in 3000 systems - buy via contracts some special items (in different regions; find the best offer) - create some contracts (remote/local) : tbc. ---
theRaptor Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Doc Punkiller In my opinion, CCP should ensure that every entities are evenly treated. If the word ethic dont fit, pick another one, but the idea is there. Then you are playing the wrong game. In EVE you will get screwed over and crushed by people that know every single thing about EVE, and who have so much power that even if you where as good as them you will never catch up. I was in an alliance that was robbed for 30-40 billion ISK by people with connections to CCP/Aurora (they didn't use those connections to get the ISK though). When I was in BoB the Serpentis decided to bring dread fleets at the drop of a hat to take out our POS (30+ jumps away from most of BoB). They colluded with BoB's enemies to try and give BoB a bloody nose (and did put one large POS in reinforced with minimal effort). CCP have changed 0.0 areas such that it massively boosted one alliance to the detriment of another (ore rebalances, new inter region jumps, EXODUS). They relocated the Blood Raiders from the Bleak Lands in empire, to Delve (BoB territory), which majorly screwed over some RPers. There was no problem because CCP wasn't doing this for personal reasons. They did it for the good of the game and to entertain the players. Even if it was unfair to certain players. EVE is a game of struggle against the odds. If you expect to be treated "fairly" or "evenly" then I suggest (in a nice way) you find an MMO which matches those ideals. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:26:00 - [106] Originally by: KIAEddZ Originally by: kieron Yes, the Devs and GMs play EVE. We have to to understand not only the game mechanics, but the concerns of the players. Are we entrusted with a lot? Absolutely, but the penalties for misconduct are just as large. Staff have been fired for misconduct and if someone in the company abuses their position, they will meet with the same punishment. Last time I checked, being on the winning side of a war or fleet engagement didn't pay the house note. Personally, I think that is more than sufficient deterrent. This is key to the point. You think I'd risk my home, my families welfare to win a battle, to get back a ship I lost... Don't be talking so crazy. Never underestimate humans Ship lovers click here
Takanohana Deep Space Explorers	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:31:00 - [107] Originally by: Smagd It's absolutely necessary for the Devs to play the [expletive] game! If they stop doing that, eventually their ideas of where the game is supposed to go and where it's actually heading are two completely different things. Keep in touch with the game itself, and its players, and you'll stay on track. So, game on, Devs! Agreed. Though I think it's important they play all aspects of the game so they have a balanced view of the game, not just missions, or 0.0 politics...
theRaptor Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:41:00 - [108] Edited by: theRaptor on 13/12/2006 17:44:55 Originally by: Malachon Draco Fact is we have a lot of people stating that indeed BoB has a number of GMs/Devs in its membership. Enemies of BoB. Yes, completely unbiased sources. Some people in BoB make similar accusations against certain of their enemies who get more then their fair share of ships reimbursed (and I don't mean ASCN, I have only come back into the game after seven months away). Oh and IRL we also had the "fact" of a lot of people stating certain countries had certain items, and certain links to certain groups. When in fact said items and said links didn't actually exist except in said peoples minds. People repeating something a lot doesn't make it true. And I am sure ASCN has spies with access to BoB's TS, I doubt they will be able to make a recording of any suspiciously Icelandic voices (which most of the devs still are afaik). Hell if you wanted to be really paranoid you could take recordings of dev voices at fanfest and compare to recordings from BoB's TS. Oh and accusations of GM/Dev involvement has never historically been raised against powerful groups by embarrased enemies. Or maybe all the GM's in PA and CA just went to BoB. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Hitomi Ito Caldari F13	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:46:00 - [109] Originally by: DeckardIRL Edited by: DeckardIRL on 13/12/2006 16:46:57 Have to disagree and say that if Devs want to play then they must remain members of Faction NPC Corps. If they are now in Game they MUST be tagged as being a Dev or CCP employee. Yeah, cause who doesn't want to be bugged on their personal time playing a game just because someone thinks they should be known as a Dev/GM/Employee of CCP at all times. Brilliance, I swear..
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:02:00 - [110] Before any of you even dream of starting to play whos-the-dev detective, I direct your atention here. If you suspect one of your playmates is a CCP employee, spilling the beans is effectively a great way of destroying that person's EVE life. Its mean, its unpleasant, it ruins your friend's time, and will guarunteed put you in the bad books of that (and other) CCP staff. As t20 says: Quote: So if you find out a dev by accident (I hope for your sake it's an accidental figuring-out of, otherwise if you're actively hunting dev identities, i can only speak for myself, but you'd be on my alts' sh*tlist till the day I die ... ) have the sportmansship to keep it to yourself (confirmed or unconfirmed), consider it a test on the lost art of keeping secrets. -----------------------------------------------

Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:27:00 - [111] I'm sure the GMs and Devs have more stones than submitting to the B[m]oB. Btw were the Jokers ever proven to be Devs and what happened to them? Ourselves Alone
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:49:00 - [112] This again... yeah devs cheat, a fleeting advantage in a game, is way more important then say ehmmm a awesome job, and friends and stuff... course it is...
theRaptor Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.13 19:52:00 - [113] Originally by: Patch86 Before any of you even dream of starting to play whos-the-dev detective, I direct your atention here. If you suspect one of your playmates is a CCP employee, spilling the beans is effectively a great way of destroying that person's EVE life. Its mean, its unpleasant, it ruins your friend's time, and will guarunteed put you in the bad books of that (and other) CCP staff. I have known some people I suspected of being GM's (no, not in BoB), and just took a "don't ask, don't tell attitude". I just posted that little comment about using TS because if people are going to be so paranoid about one alliance having devs, they should at least try to prove it (at least to themselves) or STFU. And also because I know if there are devs in BoB, there are few, and they don't suddenly whip out their dev controls to win fleet battles for BoB. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:08:00 - [114] something I noticed, and like, about CCP is their data dumps... the SQL they provide about once every major patch. It is not EVERYTHING... but it is ALOT of information, and it helps. This also helps with worries of some insider information, stats, and the like. Most of the static data is now publicly available... players and staff have access to it. want to farm a rat... you can find its exact resistances just like a CCP staffer can Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services.
Ubel Feuer	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:30:00 - [115] Edited by: Ubel Feuer on 13/12/2006 20:30:51 What the OP is getting at isn't whether they do play as BoB or anyone else, because they do play the game. He is concerned that they know little secrets or minute details about combat that a regular player does not have access too. The truth is this: we have access to all the same data they do, and the stats that aren't available through the info on things can be found through some research. Just leave them alone.
moregan Gallente SoIo Infinity	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:30:00 - [116] Can't see a problem with DEV's or GM's playing the game, and I don't have a problem with them being in Alliances. What I did have a problem with is how different GM's deal with the same matters differently! But that's another matter. Leave them be :)
Doc Punkiller Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:31:00 - [117] Originally by: theRaptor Then you are playing the wrong game. In EVE you will get screwed over and crushed by people that know every single thing about EVE, and who have so much power that even if you where as good as them you will never catch up. I was in an alliance that was robbed for 30-40 billion ISK by people with connections to CCP/Aurora (they didn't use those connections to get the ISK though). When I was in BoB the Serpentis decided to bring dread fleets at the drop of a hat to take out our POS (30+ jumps away from most of BoB). They colluded with BoB's enemies to try and give BoB a bloody nose (and did put one large POS in reinforced with minimal effort). CCP have changed 0.0 areas such that it massively boosted one alliance to the detriment of another (ore rebalances, new inter region jumps, EXODUS). They relocated the Blood Raiders from the Bleak Lands in empire, to Delve (BoB territory), which majorly screwed over some RPers. There was no problem because CCP wasn't doing this for personal reasons. They did it for the good of the game and to entertain the players. Even if it was unfair to certain players. EVE is a game of struggle against the odds. If you expect to be treated "fairly" or "evenly" then I suggest (in a nice way) you find an MMO which matches those ideals. I suggest (in a nice way) you to not suggest me to leave the game. I'm not complaining about big game evolution, rebalance or other stuff you said. I complain of non planed/designed stuff, that may be done by some individuals abusing (inconsciently or not) of their position and the hypocrisys/opacity about this.
Liquid Vision Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:38:00 - [118] Considering how bad a job CCP does with their new content (i.e. wrecks, scanning deadspaces, etc.) while also playing. . .I'd be loathe to see what would happen if they didn't play at all. Still, don't knock the OP. It's a legitimate gripe and you just have to look at any normal operating business to see that there is definitely a POSSIBILITY of a conflict of interest. I'm not saying BoBsies GM players give them an edge over the competition but it's definitely possible. I mean, at the very least, who understands the inner-workings of the game better than the people that developed it? If I want to figure out how the new ships/content/whatever works I have to look it up and research it or test it on my own. The people in-game who play with the devs and whatnot don't have to do that, they get it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. Also, I think BoB and Co. would do themselves a big favor by not coming in and acting like fools everytime someone questions CCP on anything, especially this issue. It's always some BoB forum crusader that comes in and acts like everyone else is crazy and whatnot and SURELY this stuff would never happen blah blah blah. Maybe just keep your mouth shut because going on and on about tin foil hats and nonsense just ****es people off and makes them think you ARE getting outside help. Just my humble opinion of course and no I'm not anyones alt. I'm an 8 month old or so character who STILL hasn't gotten his picture. Thanks, CCP! Glad to know you're spending time playing the game instead of working on getting me my mugshot. Give me my damn picture already!
The Wizz117	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:02:00 - [119] hahaha, they fired sombody becouse he cheated in a computer game? putting a man with maybe a family on the street beecouse he cheated in a computer game by flying a expensivly fitted space ship in a computere game xD haha! and on top of that they leaked this out to the community ( or proudly announce this to the community as a way of showing wathever) and then the best part: the community actualy finds this "justice" good LOL! seriouse get realistic here! ------------------------------------------- That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:10:00 - [120] Originally by: Ubel Feuer Edited by: Ubel Feuer on 13/12/2006 20:30:51 What the OP is getting at isn't whether they do play as BoB or anyone else, because they do play the game. He is concerned that they know little secrets or minute details about combat that a regular player does not have access too. The truth is this: we have access to all the same data they do, and the stats that aren't available through the info on things can be found through some research. Just leave them alone. You can safely bet that there are regular players with a much better understanding of some aspects of actual gameplay/combat/whatever then some CCP employees as well... another reason why this is really a non-issue

Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:15:00 - [121] Originally by: The Wizz117 hahaha, they fired sombody becouse he cheated in a computer game? putting a man with maybe a family on the street beecouse he cheated in a computer game by flying a expensivly fitted space ship in a computere game xD haha! and on top of that they leaked this out to the community ( or proudly announce this to the community as a way of showing wathever) and then the best part: the community actualy finds this "justice" good LOL! seriouse get realistic here! You'd get fired for tampering with your corporations product everywhere else, why not in the gaming industry? Reality check needed.
Becham	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:32:00 - [122] When you have in game items that are rare and unobtainable by people playing the game, it is natural that people will look with suspicious eyes at CCP employees playing the game when their corp mates end up getting something like T2 blueprints. Their corp mates probably got them fair and square, but that doesn't matter because there is an appearance of impropriety. It is crucial that they also play the game, but please, do a better job of hiding your identity! Stop telling people who you are, it is inevitable that they will tell someone else!

ReverendM Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:40:00 - [123] Thread Locked. This thread has run its course. eve-crc.net \| forum rules \| Email Us I fed your cookies to my goat! - Tirg Goes to bake fresh batch

Cipher7	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:40:00 - [124] Don't you EVER criticise the devs for actually playing their own game. This is one of the few titles where the devs are not just a bunch of suits, aloof from the playerbase. The devs here actually PLAY their own game, and the game is better off for it. BoB takes the game to the edge. They're top players, and they contribute a great deal of in-game lore and technique to Eve.


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