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Invention. Interfaces. The plan?

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KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.14 15:49:00 - [1] And here we go again. If your not interested in this subject, or are sick of seeing my posts about it etc, then please do us both a favour and hit your back button. The problem with the game, as many people see it right now, is the tech 2 market is rules by those that have ben given Tech 2 BPOs through a lottery. Mostly a few of the bigger guys, that got in early, or already had a lot of capital have bought up lots of the HAC and high profit modules BPOs. Money makes money. Invention has been touted by CCP to address this balance slightly. The idea being that through a set of skills, and some modules, and a variable expense (datacores driven by supply and demand) the general public of Eve would be able to produce BPCs of those popular items. The BPCS are innefiecient, meaning that the BPO owners will still clear 500-800% profit on the builds, but bringing the price down to realistic notions. The market as it is has no competition worth a damn, so the prices have gotten completely out of whack. It costs 20ish mill to make a hac, they sell for 1000% markups.... So, the players have been promised this, everyone has a chance to get in. It will open up themarket, no longer making the rich richer, and the poor poorer..... Well this is the idea, the thesis, the dream. The reality is very different. The Interfaces, the non destrcutible item that is needed for all Invention jobs, are the strangle hold. These items do not drop often (in over 30 complexes now KIA has found 0, and through talking to others heavily investing in this, there are reports of far greater numbers to 0). In fact I have only heard of 2 of these dropping, since exploration hit.... neither of them ship interfaces.... So what does that leave us with. It leaves us with a whole new tech 2. With only the very very very lucky finding these Interfaces, it means that only the very very rich will be able to buy them. If the finder uses it, he is passing up on the 10s of billions it will sell for... And because it will sell for billions, the markeup on the goods will still stay high in order for the investor to make his money back. This Invention, in its current state, solves absolutely nothing, and in fact feels almost like a slap in the face. Still no word from CCP of course as t the drop rate, and wether this is to be addressed. I can only assume by their silence that this is exactly as they envisioned it, even if 1/50th of the user base wanted to invent, that is months and months away from conception, probabbly at this rarity of interface rate, years. I am dissapointed, with rigs and invention, i saw the game becoming a pallette for the industrious, not a bucket of paint for the lucky. It did always seem to be too good to be true. If anyone finding any interfac would like to make his billions of it, please contact me in game. I am one of the rich ones, I am on the side of the "lucky". KIA EVE Home
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:01:00 - [2] If you had looked on the Eve Information Portal, as I did, and checked the thread "DevFinder LiteÖ", and looked at today's Highlights, you would have seen a link to Hunter. explaining a few things about Invention. I took the liberty of examining his post, and it went over the exact same thing you are distraught over. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:08:00 - [3] Thx :) Although "tweaked a bit" better mean about 500% more common. KIA EVE Home
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:24:00 - [4] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 14/12/2006 16:24:42 at the thought of ever getting hold of an Interface MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer & Warwick Castle Gamekeeper
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:29:00 - [5] Both salvage & Exploration are a disappointment so far from what I'm hearing (I've tried salvage, what a bore...). Just like I knew they would be... It's going to take a few more patches for the DEV's to un-nerf them both enough to make them accessible to the common-folk... Or maybe they never intended to do that, maybe they are simply too afraid to upset the almighty T2 BPO holders... Like I've said B4, whoever the idiot was who came up with the lottery in the first place started all this crap. I hope they fired that DEV... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Virginia Bacci	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:59:00 - [6] Originally by: DarkMatter Both salvage & Exploration are a disappointment.... Salvage is boring, exploration is brilliant. I am having a great time. Thank you CCP. The only thing is, if I run away cause I'm getting pwnd, don't be so quick to move the deadspace.
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2006.12.14 17:09:00 - [7] keep looking ffs can you get an officer rat when you like too ffs! "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Ashima Akagani	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:23:00 - [8] How much would you be willing to fork out for a Datacore - Nanite Engineering or a Datacore - Amarrian Starship Engineering then (see PC forum).
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Ashima Akagani How much would you be willing to fork out for a Datacore - Nanite Engineering or a Datacore - Amarrian Starship Engineering then (see PC forum). He wants interfaces, datacores are easy enough to come by Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:35:00 - [10] Great post EddZ agree with ya 100% --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Ashima Akagani	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:39:00 - [11] Originally by: maarud Originally by: Ashima Akagani How much would you be willing to fork out for a Datacore - Nanite Engineering or a Datacore - Amarrian Starship Engineering then (see PC forum). He wants interfaces, datacores are easy enough to come by DUH! And here I was getting excited.
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:48:00 - [12] So... has anyone found any more interfaces then? Now recruiting!
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:57:00 - [13] Data interfaces don't get destroyed with use. As a result, they have to be rare now if they're not going to become hideously common later on, no?
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Data interfaces don't get destroyed with use. As a result, they have to be rare now if they're not going to become hideously common later on, no? There's rare and RARE, i'd say its too rare if a fairly large and capable organisation like Eddz can't find any.
BustyBounty Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:06:00 - [15] does it really matter how rare they are if the bpc's you get are nerfed into oblivion anyway? ------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 16/12/2006 00:35:37 That depends, with the markup on ships its peanuts...... Also we dont know anything of the effect decryptors have on the final outcome. Who cares if it nerfs a me35 bpo >> me0 if it gives a fairly good succes rate. Some decryptors are noted as not being efficient but with a large succes rate.
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:44:00 - [17] me0 isnt the lowest you can get if all the info released was accurate ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:47:00 - [18] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 16/12/2006 00:46:58 How bad can it be ? Its not like me research really matters for most T2 ships since markup >>> production costs. so +- 10% on production cost side changes nothing.
Hehulk Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.12.16 01:14:00 - [19] Serously, stick -50 ME into the efficiency formula and see what you get. ---------- It's great being minmatar, ain't it
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:08:00 - [20] More info The build recs on the Interface BPCs are horrendous. If you can get on ethat is. I have billions to spend, and only about 4 of these thigs havebeen found. Invention = the new tech 2, favours the lucky ones, makes individuals rich.... Nice answer to the problem Invention is turning out to be, we wanted to see the move towards the modern market place of a free competiton but we still got the market place of the USSR in the 80's....... KIA EVE Home
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:23:00 - [21] Have you been able to figure out WHERE they can be found? We've found Decryptors and Datacores only so far :/ Now recruiting!
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:47:00 - [22] The are found in hackable cans... in non Escalating Path Dungeons (so far, this may not 100% the only way they are fund, but of the 2 people that have contacted me both say it has been found here) Both people said that they have searched many many (1 said over 100) complexes, and all of the interfaces so far have come from 0.0 dungeons. So in 3 weeks of looking, 4 Interfaces (2 x 2 run BPC) have been found taht I know of, and I have asked a LOT of people. And the people that have found them, are shocked at the build reqs, they are simply ridiculous, and you wont see them built easy. Add to that Explorations problems, and its crappy rewards for its protaginists, and overall its looking like Interfaces will be rare, very very rare. Rare than the tech 2 BPOS lol.. not good So the price of these things is gonna be enormous, nullifying the value of invention to bring the market price down. The investment is gonna be huge, which means that the return will need to be, so people will be forced to sell tech 2 at over inflated prices, for at least the near future. Very few people will be doing invention in the next few months, which is a real shame. Would of been really good to see the masses producing tech 2 equipment, still would sell quite high of course, because of me pe of the bpcs, but at leat lower than the tech 2 bpo cartels are selling at. The investment of both time and isk is huge, the return not quantified yet as no one is trying to build...from someone that has spent a lot of time looking at this, and trying desperately to see how its going to work, quite simply, i dont. KIA EVE Home
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:53:00 - [23] Ugh... thanks for the info. Let's hope that adjustments will be made. If invented BPCs are 'highly ineffective' there's really no need to further artificially limit invention. Like rigs invention should be widely available or both will be pretty much pointless. Now recruiting!
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 03:43:00 - [24] i believe you got lots of encyption skillbooks. can you hang onto one for me please (race specific? if so caldari please) ill pay for it obviously (how much?). *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.16 03:54:00 - [25] Notice how the devs have been talking about Rigs + Explortion.While they seem to turn the cheek with invention. The most we've gotten out of them is "Were going to be tweaking the drop rate of Interfaces".Which makes me believe this was just a gimmick to make the masses STFU for a while. A++ for who ever made this sh**. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Tribunal FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.16 04:55:00 - [26] <sigh> I am still trying to figure out what would have been so wrong with simply letting the agents offer tech 2 BPCs for RP. Instead we have an overcomplicated system that requires items that are rarer then a swim suit model in the North Pole. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.16 05:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 16/12/2006 05:34:25 Originally by: Tribunal <sigh> I am still trying to figure out what would have been so wrong with simply letting the agents offer tech 2 BPCs for RP. Instead we have an overcomplicated system that requires items that are rarer then a swim suit model in the North Pole. Don't underestimate the power of a swim suit model edit - on a more serious note, letting agents offer tech 2 bpc's for rp would have disrupted economy, and for economy I mean tech 2 owners wallet.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 09:59:00 - [28] Could you give us an review of the build costs, any specifics etc.
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Tharrn If the Devs would like to cheat there would be easier ways to do it :P I admit that what I said is a bit tinfoil hat, I'm not putting it forth as a serious suggestion. Do you have any good theories yourself why CCP are acting as they have? Nothing else seems to really make sense, the lottery is just such a terrible system.
IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:03:00 - [30] I and my friends have found two data interface bpc's from exploration, the drop rate seems fine.
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:13:00 - [31] Well, as a newish player I have been training up my R&D skills and missioning to get access to multiple high-level R&D agents to participate in invention--what a freaking joke! For some reason, I thought that Invention was intended to allow someone other than the uber-rich to participate... Why does CCP even go through this charade? Why not eliminate the NPC-seeded T1 BPOs and give them all to the T2 Barons as well so that they can extend their control even more?
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Virginia Bacci Originally by: DarkMatter Both salvage & Exploration are a disappointment.... Salvage is boring, exploration is brilliant. Now this has got to be the funniest thing ive seen I've heard... the time taken salvage provides a relative and balanced amount of profit.. Exploration takes hours and hours even with perfect skills and guarantee's nothing! If you find spending 5hours + scanning more exciting than destroying waves of highly profitable NPC's which provide sec status, bounties, loot, minerals, salvage components and rewards.. well your just whack! Exploration and Invention have got to be the worst implemented idea's since the war on Iraq! <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:06:00 - [33] KIA EVE Home
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:08:00 - [34] AT LAST now will you stop complaining for the love of god ?
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:12:00 - [35] Edited by: KIAEddZ on 16/12/2006 13:18:25 so between 100k+ subsscribers we have maybe 20 bpcs in 3 weeks so thats 280 in year...... and they have the build reqs as above... Invention, the new tech 2. ps. The 280 a year figure... assumes that peoples enthusiasm to cosmos sig hunt doesn't fall off... and its so blindingly unprofitable at all other times, not to mention boring and frustrating... that I,m not sure if 280 is gonna be a realistic figure.. ;( KIA EVE Home
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:31:00 - [36] Great work Eddz, its nice to see we aren't the only small combat corp looking into invention, that info on the interfaces is priceless (and ofc, equally depressing because the idea of collecting all 12 is now mammoth-to-impossible). Could you clarify for me - you say the build requirements are insane but the required items are ones I haven't heard of / dont come across. I take it they are cosmos drops and are those valuable in themselves, let alone in the quanities required to make 12 different interfaces? ---\|\|---
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2006.12.16 13:31:00 - [37] Originally by: KIAEddZ Edited by: KIAEddZ on 16/12/2006 13:18:25 so between 100k+ subsscribers we have maybe 20 bpcs in 3 weeks so thats 280 in year...... and they have the build reqs as above... Invention, the new tech 2. ps. The 280 a year figure... assumes that peoples enthusiasm to cosmos sig hunt doesn't fall off... and its so blindingly unprofitable at all other times, not to mention boring and frustrating... that I,m not sure if 280 is gonna be a realistic figure.. ;( Im not bored and im not greedy either, if i find stuff i wont profit excessivley from it
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:40:00 - [38] I assume those are parts obtained through hacking ? If so, cluster**** again CCP.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:44:00 - [39] Eddz, demonstrate to me that that 20 number is a valid extrapolation from a statistically significant dataset and you may have a point. In any case I'd also point out that the relevant date is not three weeks, it's since Wednesday, particularly as you can now cherry-pick exploration site types.
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:34:00 - [40] So, where did you find it? 0.0 or lowsec? Hacking or drop? The numbers ARE depressing :/ Let's hope it's pre-nerfed and will be changed. Now recruiting!
Ammath The 5 Amigo's LLC. New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.16 16:13:00 - [41] yeah what sort of system, is there a pattern? Ammath Director The 5 Amigos LLC
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.16 16:15:00 - [42] All of those items listed are parts obtained in empire cosmos complexes. It requires hacking to obtain. In addition, to get 800 of any item would take a dedicated team/group about a week of doing nothing but sitting in a complex and hacking their rears off, since each can in a hacking plex only contains a single item per can. Raptor and Ares Fix
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.12.16 16:30:00 - [43] Wow big numbers. On a second thought, it could maybe be suspected that the price of a working data interface would be in the 1 billion range at least. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Hehulk Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.12.16 16:43:00 - [44] That's one disturbingly huge list of required conponents ---------- It's great being minmatar, ain't it
Mohoi	Posted - 2006.12.16 16:45:00 - [45] So, Kiaeddz, after all this whining you buy one for 10 bil? Invention broken, yeah right!
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:33:00 - [46] Edited by: DNightmare on 16/12/2006 18:40:42 Edited by: DNightmare on 16/12/2006 18:36:44 Hrm, ok, that are quite some Big numbers, but think about it. The SHIP data interfacecs are the toplevel to invent T2 Ship bpc's (cerberus/vaga anyone?) so it was obvious that those would need the most stuff to build (and because the interfaces will never be destroyed, it's a one time pain in the ....) Take my normal Data Interface BPC for example, it's not used for such shiny stuff than HACs so the numbers are quite low compared to the one the op posted. But anyway, I agree that it is just a bit TOO high, maybe lower them to 75% or something, but don't make it to cheap, it should be a challenge to be able to produce T2 ships w/o BPO lottery luck. just my 2 isk, dnightmare
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:35:00 - [47] And now noone wants to share where they were found :/ Now recruiting!
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Tharrn And now noone wants to share where they were found :/ 0.4 Low Sec "Profession - Hacking - Base 2 - lo sec - Serpentis" after 3Hrs of probing around, if that helps you :)
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:42:00 - [49] Thanks, it does - means I can keep going in low-sec :) Now recruiting!
Missy Mai'la	Posted - 2006.12.16 18:58:00 - [50] Has anyone noticed the buildcost for the ship data interface vs the normal one? It's exactly 10 times higher, infact if you remove a zero from the right for each component from the ship one, it's component cost becomes the same as the other one, could it be seem have made an error and added an extra ZERO at the end for each component?
Teis Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.16 19:49:00 - [51] Originally by: DNightmare 0.4 Low Sec "Profession - Hacking - Base 2 - lo sec - Serpentis" after 3Hrs of probing around, if that helps you :) LMFAO... if it takes 3Hrs of probing around, then I have already forgot all about Invention. It is off my list of things to go for in EVE - sadly that leaves very little left from Kali... I very seldom have 3 hours to play EVE
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.16 20:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Teis Originally by: DNightmare 0.4 Low Sec "Profession - Hacking - Base 2 - lo sec - Serpentis" after 3Hrs of probing around, if that helps you :) LMFAO... if it takes 3Hrs of probing around, then I have already forgot all about Invention. It is off my list of things to go for in EVE - sadly that leaves very little left from Kali... I very seldom have 3 hours to play EVE Who said it's going to be a "I get Rich very easy" Button? And btw: i also got 16x "Datacores - Caldari Starship Engineering" after roughly 20minutes of probing (and 3mil bounty of the rats guarding it) so not everything takes that long, but if you can't put enough effort into it, don't wonder about 2k rats and some quafe instead of BPCs, Skillbooks (also got some), or other nice toys cheers DNightmare
Tribunal FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.16 20:10:00 - [53] Originally by: Kai Lae All of those items listed are parts obtained in empire cosmos complexes. It requires hacking to obtain. In addition, to get 800 of any item would take a dedicated team/group about a week of doing nothing but sitting in a complex and hacking their rears off, since each can in a hacking plex only contains a single item per can. Has anyone ever talked to someone that enjoys the cosmos missions? The only people I ever hear of even bothering with the whole cosmos mess are the book/item campers. I am failing to see why the content that most don't, or don't want to, take part in is beign forced down the throats of people wishing to do make t2 items through this process. "We will MAKE people take part in cosmos areas and they will ENJOY it." They have taken a system and made it so most people would rather sit on their RP waiting for the snowballs chance in hell of getting a decient t2 BPO. I know that's what I am/will be doing. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.16 20:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Eve Features Page While the act of discovery is likely to be a solo activity, capitalizing on what you found will require good connections through contracts or the market. Linky So, you can find great stuff from Exploration, but this is an MMO and if you want to use that things, you have to team up with some friends. And even in the smallest 10-20 player corp out there, are 1-2 ppl that are intrested in doing something new from time to time (instead of mining/building/NPCing/PvPing) and those are the ppl to team up with and gather the stuff for invention, easy as that. So it will maybe take you 1 week with a good team to grab the stuff, but after that, the hardest part (gathering cosmo materials) is done and all other ppl from the corp can get involved (Research players for datacores for example), because the Interface is the thing that never gets destroyed and together you have the ability to produce as much T2 ships/modules/rigs as you want, as long as the team provides the effort and the Materials to do so (or do you think, when owning a T2 BPO, the stuff produces itself with a finger snip?)and the effort you have put into hunting cosmos items will reward you with rock-solid ISK or with T2 Stuff for free. Get my point? Hell yeah, I have a 5 man Corp with RL Friends, and we do what we want and what we enjoy at the moment. And now we're planning Cosmos runs & Explorations to take a sneak peak into Invention/T2 producing. So, where's the Problem? If you don't wanna put some time into it, noone forces you to, just continue buying shiny things from the few ppl that own a BPO. Oh, and btw: I'm no fanboy at all (hell yeah, I have enough things on my list I could shoot CCP for) but I enjoy cosmos from time to time, cause it's hard when you make your first attemps, and it's kinda exciting for me to build up a "perfect" tactic + ships + fitting to do those missions/complexes and get some reward (me still hopes for another skillbook :D) again, only my 2 isk DNightmare
Tousaka Langley	Posted - 2006.12.16 20:35:00 - [55] Edited by: Tousaka Langley on 16/12/2006 20:36:51 Oh No, Individuals Getting Rich! We need a red revolution in Eve, a common playing field! More lame garbage! I can only play 10 minutes a day! I demand that I be as rich as the highest tier PC Corps because I pay as much money for the game as they do! Unless you count opportunity cost!
Driven Caldari Mass Produced Venturi Starea	Posted - 2006.12.17 04:28:00 - [56] I'm beginning to think i have a better chance of getting a date with Pamela Anderson than finding the elusive magical date interface. These things are as rare as unicorns apparently. 25 systems down. 1500 to go. I BUY TECH II AMMO BPOs
Pick Me	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:20:00 - [57] Originally by: Driven I'm beginning to think i have a better chance of getting a date with Pamela Anderson than finding the elusive magical date interface. These things are as rare as unicorns apparently. 25 systems down. 1500 to go. It's 0 systems down since the sites are always on the move. They are moving around you right now!
Teis Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.17 10:26:00 - [58] Originally by: DNightmare Who said it's going to be a "I get Rich very easy" Button? I don't expect it to be easy to get rich in EVE, and most of the stuff needed for Invention are not that hard to get. But to get your hands on the so desired Datainterfaces are clearly only for those that play EVE 23/7 or the big corporations. And that is sad!
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:06:00 - [59] Edited by: DNightmare on 17/12/2006 12:07:34 So. why not give it a bit of time? Maybe the droprate will be adjusted. And the more ppl find those Data Interfaces, most likely there wil be enough that sell them (even if the first one sell them at horrible prices, it's not a limited Resource like T2 BPOs so the prices will drop over time). And in some Weeks/Months Invention will get "quite" common, not for every podpilot out there avaiable but still widely spread and not just for the "big ones" or the "crazy workless ones". This whole new explroation/Invention stuff is only a couple of weeks out, so don't expect everything to be avaiable like civilian shield boosers :) And if CCP had spread all the new things around at once, where would be the fun of exploration? (Cause, yeah, basicly i am a 23/7 player, but it's just so addictive to fly around and find things noone has seen before and that keeps me doing it, even if some results take 4 or 5 Hrs. Till now I found every single signature I tried and i'm counting 60 in total since we got multi-specc probes and 3 the week before that)
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:25:00 - [60] I really don't think invention is broken at this point. The data interface requirements are big, but they seem sensible since it's a persistent component. What you've got to wait for is reports as to how people fare after they get a data interface - BPC yields, efficiency etc.
Rab	Posted - 2006.12.17 13:12:00 - [61] From what I have seen so far, the big shame of this is that Invention was touted as a viable option for those without a T2 BPO. Everyone can invent! to stop it displacing the T2 BPO market, they added a fail rate plus worse ME figures. plus you have to spend RP on invention even with fails, which restricts how often its done. Rare books and items required to make sure its not a skill for the casual player. The natural restrictions on invention could logically have been RPs, because they are a finite resource built into the game, and because theres a stack of people who spent skilltime to produce theirs. Instead, we do not have a place to spend Rps, because to buy something useful with your RPs you need a rare drop item that takes a stack of work to build. if the CCP plan was for most people with RP not to invent, but in fact to convert their RP into isk by selling datacores to the few inventors, they missed the concept of RPs and should have just given everyone ISK for research. Those that do not wish to simply convert RPs into isk, theres only the T2 lottery, so nothing has changed from a year ago. - In an infinite universe, everything is definite. -
Gabs Gallente Eternal Silence Ltd.	Posted - 2006.12.18 17:01:00 - [62] Buying datacores with RP is a very good way to use your RP when switching to a new and better agent, or changing research field. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I buy your Data Interfaces! Mail me ingame.
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.12.18 20:57:00 - [63] Originally by: Hehulk Serously, stick -50 ME into the efficiency formula and see what you get. true, most negative numbers don't work. but do the math with numbers between 0 and -1 and see what happens. An ME of -.5 would double the waste. .99999 would make huge waste. Think about it.

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