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Invention. Interfaces. The plan?

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KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.14 15:49:00 - [1] And here we go again. If your not interested in this subject, or are sick of seeing my posts about it etc, then please do us both a favour and hit your back button. The problem with the game, as many people see it right now, is the tech 2 market is rules by those that have ben given Tech 2 BPOs through a lottery. Mostly a few of the bigger guys, that got in early, or already had a lot of capital have bought up lots of the HAC and high profit modules BPOs. Money makes money. Invention has been touted by CCP to address this balance slightly. The idea being that through a set of skills, and some modules, and a variable expense (datacores driven by supply and demand) the general public of Eve would be able to produce BPCs of those popular items. The BPCS are innefiecient, meaning that the BPO owners will still clear 500-800% profit on the builds, but bringing the price down to realistic notions. The market as it is has no competition worth a damn, so the prices have gotten completely out of whack. It costs 20ish mill to make a hac, they sell for 1000% markups.... So, the players have been promised this, everyone has a chance to get in. It will open up themarket, no longer making the rich richer, and the poor poorer..... Well this is the idea, the thesis, the dream. The reality is very different. The Interfaces, the non destrcutible item that is needed for all Invention jobs, are the strangle hold. These items do not drop often (in over 30 complexes now KIA has found 0, and through talking to others heavily investing in this, there are reports of far greater numbers to 0). In fact I have only heard of 2 of these dropping, since exploration hit.... neither of them ship interfaces.... So what does that leave us with. It leaves us with a whole new tech 2. With only the very very very lucky finding these Interfaces, it means that only the very very rich will be able to buy them. If the finder uses it, he is passing up on the 10s of billions it will sell for... And because it will sell for billions, the markeup on the goods will still stay high in order for the investor to make his money back. This Invention, in its current state, solves absolutely nothing, and in fact feels almost like a slap in the face. Still no word from CCP of course as t the drop rate, and wether this is to be addressed. I can only assume by their silence that this is exactly as they envisioned it, even if 1/50th of the user base wanted to invent, that is months and months away from conception, probabbly at this rarity of interface rate, years. I am dissapointed, with rigs and invention, i saw the game becoming a pallette for the industrious, not a bucket of paint for the lucky. It did always seem to be too good to be true. If anyone finding any interfac would like to make his billions of it, please contact me in game. I am one of the rich ones, I am on the side of the "lucky". KIA EVE Home
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:01:00 - [2] If you had looked on the Eve Information Portal, as I did, and checked the thread "DevFinder LiteÖ", and looked at today's Highlights, you would have seen a link to Hunter. explaining a few things about Invention. I took the liberty of examining his post, and it went over the exact same thing you are distraught over. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:08:00 - [3] Thx :) Although "tweaked a bit" better mean about 500% more common. KIA EVE Home
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:24:00 - [4] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 14/12/2006 16:24:42 at the thought of ever getting hold of an Interface MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer & Warwick Castle Gamekeeper
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:29:00 - [5] Both salvage & Exploration are a disappointment so far from what I'm hearing (I've tried salvage, what a bore...). Just like I knew they would be... It's going to take a few more patches for the DEV's to un-nerf them both enough to make them accessible to the common-folk... Or maybe they never intended to do that, maybe they are simply too afraid to upset the almighty T2 BPO holders... Like I've said B4, whoever the idiot was who came up with the lottery in the first place started all this crap. I hope they fired that DEV... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Virginia Bacci	Posted - 2006.12.14 16:59:00 - [6] Originally by: DarkMatter Both salvage & Exploration are a disappointment.... Salvage is boring, exploration is brilliant. I am having a great time. Thank you CCP. The only thing is, if I run away cause I'm getting pwnd, don't be so quick to move the deadspace.
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2006.12.14 17:09:00 - [7] keep looking ffs can you get an officer rat when you like too ffs! "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Ashima Akagani	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:23:00 - [8] How much would you be willing to fork out for a Datacore - Nanite Engineering or a Datacore - Amarrian Starship Engineering then (see PC forum).
maarud Einherjar Incorporated Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Ashima Akagani How much would you be willing to fork out for a Datacore - Nanite Engineering or a Datacore - Amarrian Starship Engineering then (see PC forum). He wants interfaces, datacores are easy enough to come by Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:35:00 - [10] Great post EddZ agree with ya 100% --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Ashima Akagani	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:39:00 - [11] Originally by: maarud Originally by: Ashima Akagani How much would you be willing to fork out for a Datacore - Nanite Engineering or a Datacore - Amarrian Starship Engineering then (see PC forum). He wants interfaces, datacores are easy enough to come by DUH! And here I was getting excited.
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:48:00 - [12] So... has anyone found any more interfaces then? Now recruiting!
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:57:00 - [13] Data interfaces don't get destroyed with use. As a result, they have to be rare now if they're not going to become hideously common later on, no?
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Data interfaces don't get destroyed with use. As a result, they have to be rare now if they're not going to become hideously common later on, no? There's rare and RARE, i'd say its too rare if a fairly large and capable organisation like Eddz can't find any.
BustyBounty Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:06:00 - [15] does it really matter how rare they are if the bpc's you get are nerfed into oblivion anyway? ------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 16/12/2006 00:35:37 That depends, with the markup on ships its peanuts...... Also we dont know anything of the effect decryptors have on the final outcome. Who cares if it nerfs a me35 bpo >> me0 if it gives a fairly good succes rate. Some decryptors are noted as not being efficient but with a large succes rate.
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:44:00 - [17] me0 isnt the lowest you can get if all the info released was accurate ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:47:00 - [18] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 16/12/2006 00:46:58 How bad can it be ? Its not like me research really matters for most T2 ships since markup >>> production costs. so +- 10% on production cost side changes nothing.
Hehulk Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.12.16 01:14:00 - [19] Serously, stick -50 ME into the efficiency formula and see what you get. ---------- It's great being minmatar, ain't it
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:08:00 - [20] More info The build recs on the Interface BPCs are horrendous. If you can get on ethat is. I have billions to spend, and only about 4 of these thigs havebeen found. Invention = the new tech 2, favours the lucky ones, makes individuals rich.... Nice answer to the problem Invention is turning out to be, we wanted to see the move towards the modern market place of a free competiton but we still got the market place of the USSR in the 80's....... KIA EVE Home
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:23:00 - [21] Have you been able to figure out WHERE they can be found? We've found Decryptors and Datacores only so far :/ Now recruiting!
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:47:00 - [22] The are found in hackable cans... in non Escalating Path Dungeons (so far, this may not 100% the only way they are fund, but of the 2 people that have contacted me both say it has been found here) Both people said that they have searched many many (1 said over 100) complexes, and all of the interfaces so far have come from 0.0 dungeons. So in 3 weeks of looking, 4 Interfaces (2 x 2 run BPC) have been found taht I know of, and I have asked a LOT of people. And the people that have found them, are shocked at the build reqs, they are simply ridiculous, and you wont see them built easy. Add to that Explorations problems, and its crappy rewards for its protaginists, and overall its looking like Interfaces will be rare, very very rare. Rare than the tech 2 BPOS lol.. not good So the price of these things is gonna be enormous, nullifying the value of invention to bring the market price down. The investment is gonna be huge, which means that the return will need to be, so people will be forced to sell tech 2 at over inflated prices, for at least the near future. Very few people will be doing invention in the next few months, which is a real shame. Would of been really good to see the masses producing tech 2 equipment, still would sell quite high of course, because of me pe of the bpcs, but at leat lower than the tech 2 bpo cartels are selling at. The investment of both time and isk is huge, the return not quantified yet as no one is trying to build...from someone that has spent a lot of time looking at this, and trying desperately to see how its going to work, quite simply, i dont. KIA EVE Home
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:53:00 - [23] Ugh... thanks for the info. Let's hope that adjustments will be made. If invented BPCs are 'highly ineffective' there's really no need to further artificially limit invention. Like rigs invention should be widely available or both will be pretty much pointless. Now recruiting!
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 03:43:00 - [24] i believe you got lots of encyption skillbooks. can you hang onto one for me please (race specific? if so caldari please) ill pay for it obviously (how much?). *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.16 03:54:00 - [25] Notice how the devs have been talking about Rigs + Explortion.While they seem to turn the cheek with invention. The most we've gotten out of them is "Were going to be tweaking the drop rate of Interfaces".Which makes me believe this was just a gimmick to make the masses STFU for a while. A++ for who ever made this sh**. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Tribunal FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.16 04:55:00 - [26] <sigh> I am still trying to figure out what would have been so wrong with simply letting the agents offer tech 2 BPCs for RP. Instead we have an overcomplicated system that requires items that are rarer then a swim suit model in the North Pole. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.16 05:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 16/12/2006 05:34:25 Originally by: Tribunal <sigh> I am still trying to figure out what would have been so wrong with simply letting the agents offer tech 2 BPCs for RP. Instead we have an overcomplicated system that requires items that are rarer then a swim suit model in the North Pole. Don't underestimate the power of a swim suit model edit - on a more serious note, letting agents offer tech 2 bpc's for rp would have disrupted economy, and for economy I mean tech 2 owners wallet.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 09:59:00 - [28] Could you give us an review of the build costs, any specifics etc.
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Tharrn If the Devs would like to cheat there would be easier ways to do it :P I admit that what I said is a bit tinfoil hat, I'm not putting it forth as a serious suggestion. Do you have any good theories yourself why CCP are acting as they have? Nothing else seems to really make sense, the lottery is just such a terrible system.
IizzaBatch	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:03:00 - [30] I and my friends have found two data interface bpc's from exploration, the drop rate seems fine.

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