Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2751
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 09:21:54 -
[151] - Quote
SpaceSaft wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Many people had issues with the "picking" of probes happening accidentally, so we put the modifier keys in. That post 2 before this one raises a very good point. Regardless, can you go all the way and map mod key + number to a scanrange if you go ahead with the mod keys? CCP Goliath wrote:Why is the focus camera being fast a problem? I'm kind of surprised I have to restate to you that good tweening feels better. I find the old tweening very nice on the eyes, it also fits the pace of scanning a lot better. When you scan an entire wormhole you're looking at 10-20 minutes of looking the scanning screen, mostly spent watching the timer tick down and repositing and one of those is rather slow paced and the other would now be a very hectic affair. Again, if you find this somehow improves the experience, go ahead, but it certainly makes scanning less pleasant to me.
We want to make the keys remappable to your own convenience ideally. Don't off the top of my head see how numbers could intuitively be mapped to scanrange without having to display that information somewhere, thus adding more crowd to a crowded scene. The numbers I have issue with directly are those below 1 and greater than 10.
If you were kind of surprised at that, I strongly suggest you take a seat before you read my next sentence.
Before right now, I thought "tweening" was something people did about Bieber. Having now done some googling, I will pass it on to the team. I think your scanning use case is not neccesarily representative of the whole picture though - if I'm not just casually scanning a hole, e.g. I'm combat scanning or racing someone to a site, I need things to be fast ergo feel fast. Maybe it'll be a toggle we can put in (unlikely), or we can find a nice intermediate ground (preferable). I've still to do a really prolonged test (targeted at frustration, repetitiveness and any nausea inducers) and this may well become more of an issue over time.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
|
|
Arla Sarain
671
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 10:09:50 -
[152] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Can you screenshot the interface you're talking about and post back please? The CTRL+Click map that's outlined in this thread.
Whilst the movement speed is crisp, it isn't tight, there is quite a bit of jitter when moving.
Also interacting with the scanning box is tough with all the system celestials and warpables in the way - constantly end up selecting the celestials instead of the box. Locking the sphere resize behind the ALT button is a nuisance as well. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
560
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 11:39:57 -
[153] - Quote
When probes movement cube are in the same place (visually) with for example planets or bookmarks ir other visual indicators of map the cube is not accessible. Wheb you try to move it outside of clamped moon area you have to move camera around or try using different side of cube or use arrows on the cube to move it. Instead of moving probes you are selecting whatever object is on top . This is annoying.
Also can we have "center around" function for right clicking on object in map that would move probes to that location? For example right click on planet and using it would center formation around that planet.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1777
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 14:06:57 -
[154] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
. Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one. Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea. I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug? "Keep using the old scanner" won't be an indefinite solution - once we are happy with how this interface behaves and looks, the old system will be retired. If you can explain a little more why you have issues with a key modified system beyond "not a good idea", I would be happy to hear your concerns though. Ok Just to clarify, currently it is possible to scan single handed, using just the mouse. If it is an absolute requirement to use a second hand to engage a modifier, then It becomes quite unpleasant and impractical in many circumstances. Having a modifier AVAILABLE is a nice idea, but not when there is no alternative. I hate to give personal examples, but I have recently been bedridden, and EvE has kept me going using a laptop beside the bed. I can currently scan whilst resting on my left arm and using the mouse with my right. If it requires two hands, I can only do this sitting up, and then I might as well be in the lounge (which is not possible) or wait a few days until I am stronger. Whilst I have not been able to fully participate, I can at least scan out the WH chain for the corp. I am certain that many will play the game in situations where they are not sitting in the ideal situation, on a dedicated, clear desk where the monitor and keyboard are directly in front of them, all the time. Also I am sure people like to drink coffee, or beer, and that needs a hand free :) Changing an activity from one that utilises one hand to become two handed, is NOT a good improvement. Scanning is a non twitch activity, whilst for combat, travel, ratting etc, two handed use is reasonable, as one is highly committed to the activity, when scanning for hours, requiring physical as well as mental commitment, is excessive. Please re-enable the ability to drag the probe circle to resize without having to press a modifier key, it is about the only good design feature worth keeping of the old scanner. Why remove it? I have never heard of anyone resizing the probe radius when trying to move the "square" issues there are usually, throwing the probes out a billion miles with the arrows when trying to click the "square" as the cube move arrows, sometimes Get in the way of the cube faces? Other than that the new scanner is looking really good. Ps trackpads on laptops, magic mice, etc etc, do not have a mouse wheel. And besides the mouse wheel controls zooming in and out, for scanning, that's important as you know. With a Key modified mousewheel, we are back to the same issue of requiring two hands. The question is do you decide to make scanning a compulsory two handed activity? Is this an improvement? Please consider this carefully as this changes the activity negatively for quite a number of situations, That doesn't seem like a good choice, as for some this will be the defining feature of the new scanner, and all the other good work is wasted, and the now unwanted scanner will appear to be forced on us rather than something to be welcomed. It would be such a shame for that to happen when there is so much to appreciate. Please consider this very carefully. Many thanks. Hi, Thanks for the detailed and reasoned feedback. So, the current working theory of the hotkeys is that they will ultimately be bindable to whatever you want. This means that if you want to remap to a mousebutton for instance, you would be able to do that and still keep scanning onehanded if you want to. That being said, that doesn't solve the problems you brought up with touchpads and general accessibility concerns that users may have. I'll take this back to the team and see what they say. You're quite correct though, with the old system picking was very easy and not an issue. Now that we've abstracted the window and made it resizeable however, the problem with picking was becoming more and more of an issue in our feedback. Two minor tongue in cheek points of rebuttal - EVE isn't a "twitch" game in any part of itself really, and the most "twitchy" experience I've ever had myself in the game has been combat scanning, funnily enough! Also, if all y'all beer and coffee drinkers want to game like champs, you gotta get yourselves some of these: [img]http://revolutionandbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/344592d1336775424-beer-carrying-spitfires-world-war-ii-1373436-beerhat_large.jpg[/img]
Thank you very much, your response reassures me that it is really worth giving feedback. I hope that you have a good discussion with the team. And back to the humourous side, I bet it was the Beer comment that really struck home :)
Keep up the great work.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 14:16:45 -
[155] - Quote
Are you sure that people were actually complaining about selecting the probes accidentally? The only complaint I've ever had or heard along those lines is selecting things which are not the probes accidentlaly. Generally when your probes are out, the majority of your clicks are in the solar system map are either camera movement or probe movement. |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
165
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 16:05:46 -
[156] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: We want to make the keys remappable to your own convenience ideally. Don't off the top of my head see how numbers could intuitively be mapped to scanrange without having to display that information somewhere, thus adding more crowd to a crowded scene. The numbers I have issue with directly are those below 1 and greater than 10.
Scan range is 2 to the power of a number between -2 and 5 for core and -1 and 6 for combat probes. That translates very well to a scale from 1 to 10 corresponding to all scan ranges. (1 -> 0.25 AU , 2 -> 0.5 AU , ... , 9 -> 32 AU, 10 -> 64 AU ).
I think alt is a good mod key, many programs use alt as mod key.
Regarding combat scanning and speed - I don't think the gameplay is that fast, I might be wrong because i'm not doing it very much but I don't think the whole "wait until the timer finished" is very conductive to fast gameplay. I'm sure the CSM or other people here can comment on whether they ever felt the combat scan refocus was too slow.
They too will appreciate the keyboard controls if they're serious about it though. |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2751
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 16:02:23 -
[157] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Can you screenshot the interface you're talking about and post back please? The CTRL+Click map that's outlined in this thread. Whilst the movement speed is crisp, it isn't tight, there is quite a bit of jitter when moving. Also interacting with the scanning box is tough with all the system celestials and warpables in the way - constantly end up selecting the celestials instead of the box. Locking the sphere resize behind the ALT button is a nuisance as well.
Have you tried filtering objects you don't care about out of the map? Using the filters in the top left corner.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
|
|
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 17:09:33 -
[158] - Quote
He probably does care about those objects, just not enough to let them make him unable to move his probes. |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
129
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:54:23 -
[159] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: Have you tried filtering objects you don't care about out of the map? Using the filters in the top left corner.
The issue lies in that the most needed objects are the most plentiful as well. When you're dscanning you want anoms and moons amogn other things, so that's where most of the clutter comes from. You can afford to turn some more stuff off when using probes, but then you'll want to turn them back on after every scan to see where does the warpable sig lie.
|
Arla Sarain
677
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 20:25:45 -
[160] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Can you screenshot the interface you're talking about and post back please? The CTRL+Click map that's outlined in this thread. Whilst the movement speed is crisp, it isn't tight, there is quite a bit of jitter when moving. Also interacting with the scanning box is tough with all the system celestials and warpables in the way - constantly end up selecting the celestials instead of the box. Locking the sphere resize behind the ALT button is a nuisance as well. Have you tried filtering objects you don't care about out of the map? Using the filters in the top left corner. I do not recall tampering with the filter options in the old (F10) map. I'm not even sure it has them. I do not expect to have to use them either - it is only naturally intuitive that it behaves almost exactly as the old one.
It is difficult to compare now, since on SISI the F10 map no longer has the scanning cube (just tried it 2 minutes ago).
My only guess is that the awkwardness comes with the sphere of influence (hitbox, best I can describe) of the celestial and anomaly/signature brackets in the new map: they are too large, making them sensitive to any cursor pass/swipe. This is especially awkward now that signatures have their own "dot" bracket (which they didn't have in the old map). The dot coincides with the center of the sig sphere, and when you drag the cube onto the center (best positioning guess for initial scan), it consistently overlaps with the "dot" bracket. The sphere of influence of the sig dot bracket is about the size of the scan cube. Because of this, the area of the cube sides are difficult to grab with the sig "dot" bracket in the way.
Hence, if you insist on keep on the signature "dot" brackets, I suggest you introduce some kind of priority for the cursor - if the cube is surrounded by the celestial brackets, when hovering the cursor of the blob of celestials and the cube, the priority will be given to grabbing the cube first.
P.S. The group column (thanks for adding it) cannot be changed in width size in the new probe window when it's anchored along with the D-scan window. All the rest of the columns cannot be reduced beyond some point (I assume the same size as the shortest entry, i.e. the name column cannot be reduced below the size of "Cosmic Signature")
P.S.S. Can you not give us a tickbox for the starfield...?
P.S.S.S. Wheel mouse for probe size is pretty nifty, but the previous drag to stretch had visual feedback, as in you could correlate the direction of the size change with the direction you drag them in. The mouse wheel thingy keeps me testing it out every time, just find out the direction. |
|
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
227
|
Posted - 2015.10.22 06:16:53 -
[161] - Quote
Can the red dscan cone / sphere be reduced in brightness / made more subtle.
Its very distracting when probing (obscures the sigs ur trying to scan) and also when ur traveling through system dscaning. The red is to bright and busy.
I have my probe window and my dscan window in tabs and have the solar system map open (in a corner) all the time. The sphere is constantly present even though it is only ment to be active when the dscan window is open. The sphere is still displayed active when i have the probe scan window open.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Soltys
33
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 01:51:52 -
[162] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
The focus camera movement is very very fast.
I'm not very happy with the changes, doesn't feel like you're changing anything really. Just looks a bit different. Many people had issues with the "picking" of probes happening accidentally, so we put the modifier keys in. We are also putting in hotkeys for resizing probes on the fly (inc. key modified mousewheel), which is looking nice so far. Layering (move arrows having priority) is something we're taking a second swing at, since a lot of people seem dissatisfied with its current behaviour. Why is the focus camera being fast a problem?
I have jumped on sisi and checked it out and this is amazing change. I can't count how many times I grabbed sphere when trying to rotate / whatever else on TQ. For those that prefer current version, just add checkbox/option to enable/disable it.
Key modified wheel works great as well.
Stuff I noticed:
- when using new dscan ui, the direction is stuck (ignores camera); angles and range refresh fine
- new probe map reacts visually (but not functionally) to all key modifiers even if EvE doesn't have application focus (I realized it when I put probe map on the 2nd monitor and started typing this post). Why the need for system wide shortcuts ? This is really distracting both in-game when probe/dscan map doesn't have focus and outside the game when EvE is in background.
What I would change:
- swap 'ctrl' and 'alt' roles - so 'alt' retains current functionality of changing probes' position against their center (without range change) and 'ctrl' supports range-only resizes ; this is just a nitpick, but people are used to current alt functionality - so unless there is a good reason, no need to move it to 'ctrl'
- make probe/dscan map react to ctrl/alt/shift press only if probe map has the focus
- as mentioned above, add checkbox to enable sphere-grab resizing for those that prefer it
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Arla Sarain
696
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 13:03:03 -
[163] - Quote
Borked F10 map made it to TQ. |
GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
199
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 14:03:00 -
[164] - Quote
UGGHHHHH Is it me or is scanning not working in the old map?
The new map is nice, but i cant re centre my camera on top of what im trying to scan, if the systems big I cant zoom in correctly. Also how do i turn off the noise of my dscan range from the map window? |
Arla Sarain
696
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 14:18:50 -
[165] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:UGGHHHHH Is it me or is scanning not working in the old map?
The new map is nice, but i cant re centre my camera on top of what im trying to scan, if the systems big I cant zoom in correctly. Also how do i turn off the noise of my dscan range from the map window? Old map isn't working.
Disable D-SCAN lock at the top of the new solar system window. Looks like a Wi-Fi icon. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
215
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 14:40:20 -
[166] - Quote
Well, the new scanner is a bit getting used to. But i think i found a bug. After jumping in a new system, the "you are here" tag seems to stick to the sun and stays there where ever i go.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
|
Peonza Chan
Gloryhole Initiative Que os den forsaken
19
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 16:48:40 -
[167] - Quote
I'll keep using old map because: a) signature's dot so small b) celestial hitboxes interfering too much with probe hitbox c) dscan sphere same color as signatures d ship controls hiding behind map e) 2 maps for the solar system
other minor issues: f) moving camera is easy with old, new map move/rotate is awful g) black background clearer than star background
only one suggestion about camera tracking related with dscan: enable camera tracking while hitting bookmarks in people&places |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
600
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 17:25:34 -
[168] - Quote
Peonza Chan wrote: only one suggestion about camera tracking related with dscan: enable camera tracking while hitting bookmarks in people&places
This would be fantastic.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
|
Sleepaz Den
Artificial Memories
7
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 18:25:04 -
[169] - Quote
want to buy: Diablo-style'd map
And hold *button* or whatnot to interact with map, release *button* to have map fade into background again.
Cause the current *new* map is terrible beyond explanation. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
302
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 18:33:04 -
[170] - Quote
So overlay on space? That's a very reasonable idea, much better than the pointless background in a window.
|
|
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
68
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 19:01:33 -
[171] - Quote
The scan filters are now cumulative - so rather than easily switching between different custom filters - the user is forced to select the new filter and then deselect the old one.
Given that it is possible to create custom filters, I'd have thought it would make more sense to retain the previous modal functionality. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
215
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 19:38:56 -
[172] - Quote
Is there an option to remove the d-scan red on the map ? It is in the way when scanning, i still want to see things on the d-scan list though, just an option to not see the d-scan area when scanning.(turn on /off switch)
No local in null sec would fix everything!
|
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
215
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 19:58:55 -
[173] - Quote
An other bug: Half of the time the bookmarks of the system you were in before you jumped are still in the system-map window of the new system.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
|
Sleepaz Den
Artificial Memories
9
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 20:20:57 -
[174] - Quote
I currently got two accounts running, one uses the old layout for scan windows, the other uses the modern one. NBD. You can even have both at once, atleast until you relog. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
493
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 20:28:07 -
[175] - Quote
Peonza Chan wrote: a) signature's dot so small b) celestial hitboxes interfering too much with probe hitbox c) dscan sphere same color as signatures d ship controls hiding behind map e) 2 maps for the solar system
This, also can we turn off d-scan sphere? Did few scans, it's good in general, it will take some time to learn alt+mouse wheel but when learned it will be faster than old system.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
87
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 20:42:49 -
[176] - Quote
Thanks for taking the time to respond to player concerns in this thread.
Two quick points:
- When combat d-scanning with anomalies shown, if you then zoom in -- the anomalies gradually fade away and then disappear. This is kinda problematic if zoom in to differentiate between two close anoms.
- The "Align with camera" option is awesome, however the number of red circles is a little overkill. Could we have the option to reduce this to maybe 1 or 2 with a red dot showing the center of the view?
|
Devian Chase
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
8
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 20:50:01 -
[177] - Quote
i kinda dscan a lot i mostly use dscan from map mode , point my camera towards stuff reduce the angle , zoom in a little and find stuff to shoot
i'm gonna be honest i dislike the half map mode , while the cone looks nice you will be faster and more accurate just using the full map mode
the bad things about the full map mode 1 in full map mode if you zoom in on your ship , the green dots and other stuff you are aiming your camera at fade out and disapear to fast . 2 All the red lines when you dont use the cone feature ( its a sphere then) clutter up the map its like 30 lines all over the place ( picture those lines with 7-9 scannable sites ( red spheres ) ) A single thick White ( any other color would do )outline would suffice to show scanning range and keep things neat and clear. 3 lacking ship controlls in full map mode
good things about the full map mode 1 the pin markers that show whats covert under your current dscan angle 2 dscan button bind
I would very much like to have the option to bind a increase / decrease in angle |
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1226
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 23:47:15 -
[178] - Quote
Hud and mods needs to show on full screen map mode.
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
|
Beness
Vojtech Fekete
21
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 01:43:32 -
[179] - Quote
Feedback! Yay!
When moving probes, the red highlight that seems to indicate "you're able to move probes" is misleading.
In the case that I get the red highlight and then the mouse wanders over a marker (like, for the probe), the visual feedback continues to indicate that I should be able to move the probes. However, the drag interaction focus is captured by the marker.
The red highlight should only exist when I'm actually able to move probes. |
Olmeca Blanco
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 14:36:41 -
[180] - Quote
[CCPlease] Faster Way to Refresh the Anomaly Distances on Probe Scanner
Refreshing the anomaly distances on probe scanning is essential for many reasons, especially for nullsec hunters.
When a hunter jumps in a system and there are no anomalies around the in gate, he warps to the center of the system to dscan for targets. After the warp he needs to refresh the anomaly distance, so when he figures how far the target is away from him, he will know which anomaly he is in.
In the old probing window you could refresh anomaly distance by double clicking "show all".
In the new window you need to click the filter menu, deselect a filter and select it again. 3 clicks on 2 different and very small areas. I believe this is a detail that lowers the quality of life for hunters.
I suggest the distance to be refreshed when we drop the scan results down and up again by clicking the bar. Or a refresh button, but that would perhaps complicate the window unnecessarily for others. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |