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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
corbexx
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1398
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 10:22:53 -
[1] - Quote
Team Psycho Sisters invite you to try out our new Scanning interface on the Singularity test server. We have made some changes to the interface based on feedback on the new map, and have pulled scanning out of the map entirely to reside in its own window. The feature can be accessed by Ctrl-Left Clicking the Probe Scanner button. This is a temporary place for the feature while we perform some user experience testing on it. For help on how to connect to the Singularity test server, please see this helpdesk article: https://ccpcommunity.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202331461-Test-Server-Singularity-. Please try out all the scanning use cases you care to, especially ones you use frequently on Tranquility. To give us feedback, please fill in this short survey following your time testing out the new interface. We ask you kindly to not distribute this link.
http://questionpro.com/t/AKgazZS5GT
If people would like to go on sis and test this and give some constructive feedback that would be really helpful.
Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1397
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 10:26:56 -
[2] - Quote
corbexx wrote: We ask you kindly to not distribute this link.
Oops.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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corbexx
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1398
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 12:06:15 -
[3] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:corbexx wrote: We ask you kindly to not distribute this link.
Oops.
Not a issue I copied the parts I was ment to. Although I've taken it out and people will have to message me to get that link till I get clarity from CCP. I think its more they are worried people will just fill in the survey without even trying it.
Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1399
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 12:44:40 -
[4] - Quote
is this only a change for scanning in the new map, or does it change scanning in the old map as well?
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Winthorp
3660
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 13:06:01 -
[5] - Quote
This is so horrible it should be stopped now, i have tried this on SISI and have filled in the survey.
You can't dscan from this at all and i realise they are only releasing this to test the signature scanning but these are hand in hand for me and this holds no hope that it will be able to be made workable with dscan as a functionality.
Whoever made this map has clearly never scanned past the few sigs they required to learn to test this out.
A system that would take usually 5-10mins to scan was taking me 30-40mins and i was struggling the whole way through it.
When scanning a cluster of sigs at 4au and receiving a few named results you normally then lock down one of those sig to 100%. Once you then go after that one sig the system forgets all the others. Like really WTF?
The highlighting of sigs that you click on and want to narrow down is so negligible that i couldn't pick it. It is made worse when a sig splits and you need to see both of them in a cluster of over 5 sigs. This is one of the worst parts for me, i would almost have to give up on some signatures.
Some signatures even after scanning them to 100% you can warp to it and the window won't even tell you what it is yet. You can't edit the info window to give you more info on things.
The progress bar on the signature icon is horrible and really doesn't even represent how much you have scanned it down at all.
The signature info window is so in your way that you can't even scan comfortably without making the whole window full screen, why is that locked to there.
Please don't implement this or at the very least can you not find a dev there that has at least scanned a few systems down to test this out before releasing this to sisi in its horrible condition twice now?
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
328
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 13:17:35 -
[6] - Quote
I'm collecting all my feedback here, because I'm pretty sure the survey would time out, and/or I would hit the character limit.
Because boy there is a lot to mention:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hcc59_ZWxoTjTkfz0st8-e-f9E_ojrc3leSwP04iSj0
Edit: Yeah I'm still working on it. Will update when I'm actually done :P |
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
62
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 15:06:58 -
[7] - Quote
I don't think this is a good idea. The starmap and system map merge isn't that bad, it just needs to have the scale adjusted, so that you have to zoom more to switch from starmap to solar system map, and that solar map is very small compared even to the distance between neighbour stars, to reduce the overlapping between the two maps. |
Quesa
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
81
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 15:42:56 -
[8] - Quote
I don't like that you cannot pop-out the scan results and have to keep this, very large, window open.
When you start making the windows for the map smaller, it becomes more difficult and awkward to maneuver it, making it more difficult and awkward to complete the task of scanning.
I would love a button to center the probes on your current location and/or a right-click to center probes at a desired celestial/object.
I cannot count how many times I have tried to move probes but grabbed the arrow facing me, thus shooting the probes so far out of my view I have to recall and re-deploy the entire set. To address this, could you possibly remove the Z-axis arrows when your perspective is at a certain angle?
Recover probes should be more prominent and slightly separated from the reconnect/destroy. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
298
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 16:11:44 -
[9] - Quote
Quesa wrote:I don't like that you cannot pop-out the scan results and have to keep this, very large, window open.
When you start making the windows for the map smaller, it becomes more difficult and awkward to maneuver it, making it more difficult and awkward to complete the task of scanning.
I would love a button to center the probes on your current location and/or a right-click to center probes at a desired celestial/object.
I cannot count how many times I have tried to move probes but grabbed the arrow facing me, thus shooting the probes so far out of my view I have to recall and re-deploy the entire set. To address this, could you possibly remove the Z-axis arrows when your perspective is at a certain angle?
Recover probes should be more prominent and slightly separated from the reconnect/destroy.
You can make the map full screen now and it acts exactly like the old map
except it looks like you just zoom in on the solar system, which looks weird, but usable |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
875
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 16:27:48 -
[10] - Quote
I am a wormholler, and scan more then 99% of the EVE population, so what I say I say from much, much experience.
New interface is basically a copy-paste of the old (current) scanning interface, only now in a separate window rather then a screen.
Advantages over current scanning interface:
1) separate window you can dock on the 2nd screen somewhere. This is a good thing.
Disadvantages over current scanning interface:
1) Adds more clutter to the UI. 2) Minimum size of the window is an issue. 3) Inability to decouple scan results window from the graphical map overlay with the probes.
For example, in current scanning interface, when I play as a t3 destroyer, I drop combats in a tight spread over the grid i am at, and i just leave them there. An enemy warps in 300km away, I hit scan, and on the scan results window I get a hit that i can warp to. For this, i do not need to see actual probes. i drop them, I pre-position them in advance, and I leave them, all i need is a Scan button and a list of warp-able results.
Scan window needs to have all elements decoupled, so I can drag them whichever way i want, and hide unnecessary parts.
4) Those ugly-ass icons... Please, for the love of god, let us use a small generic colored dot for most things. Currently icons are big, fat, and take up a lot of visual real-estate. I do not NEED to see the damn triangles on my scanning map, only a green dot that signifies signal strength.
Green, yellow, red dot. Nothing else.
5) Separate window. Yes it is also an advantage, but also a disadvantage. When i am scanning wormholes, and not in a rush, I like a fully maximized scanning window with no other UI elements distracting me. The fact that it is now a free-floating window competing with other UI elements for space, can be a good thing, but also a bad thing.
overall:
overall, the scanning interface is still garbage. Copy-pasting the old interface and adding ugly-ass icons into it does not count as improvement sorry.
remind me, did anyone actually ask for you to break the scanning as well as the map and icons?
Scanning window does not need changes other then maybe letting us scan from a tiny window in the main UI as well as the current separate screen. |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3384
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 16:31:14 -
[11] - Quote
i like the concept of it. Bringing the UI controls to the map and making things like the proble list collapsible was long overdue ;)
first impression is good. Map still has the same problems it had before but thats off topic.
what i was missing after a short test: - filter to disable anomalies (used to be a checkbox) - filters in general
maybe i overlooked them however
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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darkezero
Scope Works Dead Terrorists
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 16:35:03 -
[12] - Quote
A) organizing by signal strength doesn't actually organize by signal strength. it shifts them around, but something scanned to 100% doesn't appear on either top or bottom when in the same list as unscanned or partially scanned signatures.
B) Old map, selecting one signature caused the others to disappear, leaving you with just the one selected on the map. New map, selecting one signature changes nothing. Old map style is preferred, due to the ability for multiple signatures to be scanned in a single pass, but only wanting a particular one.
C) Scan results window is simply too small to provide any information beyond range, scan group, and percentage scanned, and even omits the group (Data, Relic, combat, wormhole) and type. it is expandable up and down, but not left and right.
D) during position of probes: old map style, right click while holding left click during dragging returned probes to original position prior to start of drag; new map style, right click while holding left click during dragging changes camera position and zoom, making it uncertain that probes are in fact in their original place. Old map style preferred.
E) new map doesn't include ranges to objects other than anomalies and signatures.
Image showing items A, B, C, and E is here
hopefully this helps and/or is what you're looking for. |
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4646
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 17:34:09 -
[13] - Quote
This gets a 10/10, A++ and a huge fkn gold star for moving the recall probes button away from right next to the analyze button!!!! Actually functionality is aparently bad based on feedback from people I reasonably trust though (I don't do sisi myself)
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Arla Sarain
647
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 17:46:18 -
[14] - Quote
Please remove the black balloon around brackets. You can make it hop in on mouseover, but unless interacted with it shouldn't show up and clutter with other balloons, which are obviously just there for no reason. Also, aesthetically, trying to give the balloons volume through color shading when everything else seems flat 2D is so Windows XP era. Flat bracket balloons on mouseover if you insist please.
Darker background please.
Can the tactical overlay have a different colour from the orbital paths? For easier distinction. Like yellow. Could also play with the thickness of orbital lines or tac overlay lines.
Will edit for more
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Quesa
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
81
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 18:10:06 -
[15] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Quesa wrote:I don't like that you cannot pop-out the scan results and have to keep this, very large, window open.
When you start making the windows for the map smaller, it becomes more difficult and awkward to maneuver it, making it more difficult and awkward to complete the task of scanning.
I would love a button to center the probes on your current location and/or a right-click to center probes at a desired celestial/object.
I cannot count how many times I have tried to move probes but grabbed the arrow facing me, thus shooting the probes so far out of my view I have to recall and re-deploy the entire set. To address this, could you possibly remove the Z-axis arrows when your perspective is at a certain angle?
Recover probes should be more prominent and slightly separated from the reconnect/destroy. You can make the map full screen now and it acts exactly like the old map except it looks like you just zoom in on the solar system, which looks weird, but usable
Yes, I understand that but it isn't really my concern. If this new UI is to replace the old one, I want to be able to keep the results window separate once the probes are put in the proper place, not have this window that is ~1/5 of my screen area. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
875
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 18:24:14 -
[16] - Quote
Anyhow rather then trying to break the last working elements of UI, simply let community customize UI as we see fit.
All these separate windows, and separate teams working on separate aspects of the UI...
It is just bad. If you are going to re-do the UI, do it all in one pass, make it fully moddable, and everyone will be happy, rather then doing it all in separate bits and pieces and releasing half-assed **** that noone likes, wants, or asked for. |
Aladar Dangerface
13. Enigma Project
237
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 19:33:13 -
[17] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:This gets a 10/10, A++ and a huge fkn gold star for moving the recall probes button away from right next to the analyze button!!!! Actually functionality is aparently bad based on feedback from people I reasonably trust though (I don't do sisi myself) I posted this on the little things post a couple of weeks back, you're welcome :)
I don't need twitter.
I'm already following you.
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Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
831
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 19:36:33 -
[18] - Quote
My comments in the survey.
It looks much more like the new way that CCP has been designing new interfaces but has some deficiencies, mainly to do with the new map.
However, it forces you to use the new map, which it is honestly very hard to use compared to the old map. You cannot click on a lot of items due to the way the ordering of icons. To use it, you need to deselect items on the map to use it. And you don't have any groupings that make that easy.
Also, you cannot put the see-through overlay on it, to have it blown up large, but still able to see ships approaching you nearby. Once you have your probes set, you can go back to the normal space view instead of the map, and just have your probe selections set, which is twice as small as the new one.
The icons for launch, reconnect and destroy are small and might be easily miss able by newbies. You might consider coloring these icons as well.
The removal of the 'clear filtered result >' option, to see what you have filtered, is a reduction in information that is not helpful. The ability to immediately add an old filtered result was helpful.
You have also removed the seconds from probe times, which was a nice gentle reminder that your time is ticking down as your probes sit on fields. Otherwise, it looks pretty static. The columns for the probes section could be adjusted as well.
Maybe naming the types of probes you have out since you are using a larger column size?
Right clicking on a item that is inside warp range will not give you a warning that it is too close.
I really like the fact that the map seems to follow the new probes though.
Select all probes to change their distance.
Remove an ignored probe result for a single ship.
Seconds counting down, reminding you that you're on a clock to scoop/relaunch your probes.
Missing icon on new probe scanner, it is a set of pages.
Add pre-populated formations, these are not rocket science.
Make the new window Splitable from the map window, even if they can operate together.
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Alundil
Isogen 5
1019
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 20:57:15 -
[19] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:This gets a 10/10, A++ and a huge fkn gold star for moving the recall probes button away from right next to the analyze button!!!! Actually functionality is aparently bad based on feedback from people I reasonably trust though (I don't do sisi myself) LEL - Jack points out one of the huge wins of the redesign. Neverending agony and frustration from accidentally recalling probes.
Other than that, this redesign doesn't actually improve much over the previous iterations of the beta map from a scanning perspective. The googledoc write up (linked earlier) is pretty damn close to my thoughts as well and saves me the need to type a lot of words.
I'm right behind you
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Marech Bhayanaka
The Night Crew The Night Crew Alliance
52
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 20:58:46 -
[20] - Quote
Quesa wrote: I cannot count how many times I have tried to move probes but grabbed the arrow facing me, thus shooting the probes so far out of my view
I hate this is he most in the current implementation.
Marech. |
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
334
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 22:22:15 -
[21] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:
*The new window lacks the "show anomalies" toggle tick box.
It's been moved to the "Right Click" menu if you mouse over "Filtered", so it's still there but not as obvious. Same with the ability to filter scan results by type, or ignored signatures: http://i.imgur.com/YKGRoqe.png
I definitely think it needs to be more obvious, as I thought all of that functionality was missing originally as well.
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Maria Kitiare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
21
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 22:22:49 -
[22] - Quote
Wow.. I don't even.. Are you sure you considered feedback? Cause I don't really see any big improvements over the horrible beta map?
I mean.. Did the guys making this even try to zoom out and move their probes with "scanner probe" markers turned on? - If you can't move your probes, it isn't really a UI for probing, is it?
If you are in Thera, you can't even zoom out enough to see the entire system(same issue on the beta map).
Having it in a new window isn't even an improvement imo. Cause you are locking down all the windows behind it, and with the amount of space it takes, you can't really place it anywhere where it isn't in the way (unless you extend your client over several screens).
I think my best piece of feedback is to scrap the betamap, scrap this new probe window and put those dev hours somewhere else. God knows, EVE got enough bugs you guys can sort out. ;)
(I am running EVE in 1920x1080 Fixed Window on my 24" monitor for reference) |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
158
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 22:41:12 -
[23] - Quote
Is it already over? Is there a new button or something I have to check on Sisi, like with the beta galaxy map? Can't seem to find the thing to test it... |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
335
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 22:43:24 -
[24] - Quote
Updates After Downtime:
- Grey/Green background is now replaced with generic nebulae skybox. It's pixelated and distracting, and doesn't match the actual system background. While graphically it might be an improvement for casual use, please give us the option to turn it off and just go completely black background for efficiency. See bottom left for pixellation: http://i.imgur.com/7PvhDFo.png
- Related to above, we will need the ability to turn off the Sun lighting in a system. Because zooming in on the system core, for example in Thera and having your retinas destroyed will get old REALLY fast: http://i.imgur.com/3IYcS7a.jpg
- The "Recover Active Probes" icon, and all those probe icons are looking finer detail - a big improvement.
- When you jump into a system, the "Focus Current Location" button doesn't focus and zoom you in on YOUR location, but centers on the Sun. The "You Are Here" icon is also on the sun when you're actually on the gate, as shown by the tactical overlay ranging. Possible bug because you haven't spawned yet? Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/21tOkz7.png
- Scan Results is now a thin line on underneath the signature description. Not sure why this change was made - I don't really like it compared to having the entire row background bar update. It doesn't compact anything, and I don't think anyone was asking for this in the Scan Results window: http://i.imgur.com/I31tkiW.png
- 100% Signature no longer goes from a Dot to the "Beacon" icon. That, or it's just not consistent: http://i.imgur.com/SxYSy8z.png. Either way, the circle and icon are still WAY too large and need to scale down a lot more when completely zoomed in.
- Cosmic Anomalies when unchecked are being added to the Filtered list. This is going to mess with a lot of people, and is going to lead to problems later when you have to account for Citadels, Faction Warfare Complexes and other "Cosmic Anomalies" which should be completely separate from Cosmic Signatures and be able to quickly turn on/off. Would rather see the checkbox more visble but not count towards filters at all: http://i.imgur.com/WD7O9FL.png
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Ashterothi
Nova Haven
291
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 23:52:26 -
[25] - Quote
I hate to say this but this seems to have clearly been done by someone who has very little to no practical experience trolling the space lanes. This is by far a step back from even the current map system.
I am going to have to look at this a second time because the only feedback I have is a wall of frustration after looking at it for 2 minutes.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4647
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 00:03:24 -
[26] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:Jack Miton wrote:This gets a 10/10, A++ and a huge fkn gold star for moving the recall probes button away from right next to the analyze button!!!! Actually functionality is aparently bad based on feedback from people I reasonably trust though (I don't do sisi myself) I posted this on the little things post a couple of weeks back, you're welcome :) I mean, I've been complaining about it and posting about it, along with a bunch of other people since late 2009 but sure, I bet it was all you.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Nox52
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
85
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 02:56:58 -
[27] - Quote
There is a lot of work to be done on the actual interface as noted above but for me the overall feel of the new probing is that it's a lot more snappy and fast in ui feedback, compared to the overall wading through molasses feel that the beta map probing had.
Which is very good. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2727
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 07:20:34 -
[28] - Quote
You wanted people to not live in wormholes and this is your best effort at achieving that so far. Bravo, Team Dinkus Garglers.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Montecore Qubaal
The Order of Thelemic Ascension Novus Dominatum
2
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Posted - 2015.09.12 09:06:42 -
[29] - Quote
My largest fear is that CCP might not realize how we use the solar system map and that itGÇÖs not just about scanning. When IGÇÖm scouting in wormhole space, the solar system map is my main view. I even fly my ship around using the map instead of the overview. IGÇÖm a visual person so it works much better for me then using the overview. When IGÇÖm scanning, IGÇÖm also flying my ship, using dscan and watching my overview, chat windows, and local. I want to be able to do all those things, which I can do in the old solar system map, while scanning.
Here are some things I noticed when trying out the scanning interface on SISI.
In general, the icons obstruct the box and arrow handles which are used to reposition the probes. This is very annoying. IGÇÖm not sure how to fix this since sometimes you need to interact with the icon and other times you need to interact with the probe positioning handles. I can say that I donGÇÖt have this problem with the old solar system map. There are two situations where this annoyance frequently occurs.
- The probe icons need to be turned off by default. They obstruct the box and arrow handles which are used to reposition the probes.
- After scanning down a signature, the signature icon is directly covering the box and arrow handles which are used to reposition the probes.
The Filtered and Ignored menus are not immediately noticeable and therefore are not as intuitive as they could be. I couldnGÇÖt figure out how to unignore signals. I gave up and moved on to other things. After a while I found those menus by accident. Now that IGÇÖve found them, I like them.
Scan results window
- I was not able to increase the width of the scan results window. ItGÇÖs hard to read the info in there.
- I miss the group column and would like to see that added back in.
- I donGÇÖt like the scan progress underline. I prefer the old, full row coloring.
- As many others have said, when you click on a signal only that signal should be shown on the map. This helps so much when trying to scan down a signal.
The blinding sun is not good. You canGÇÖt see anything when you are zoomed in close to the sun.
I like the button that centers the display on your ship.
I like the clicking to center the display on a celestial/sig/anom though I think it should require a double click instead of a single click. With single click you sometime center the display when you didnGÇÖt mean to. When zoomed out, you should be able to click on a cluster of object to center the display instead of having to go into the menu or zoom in to click a specific object.
Needs a full screen mode which doesnGÇÖt obscure other windows though I assume there will be since the beta map has that option.
I learned to play eve using the radial menu so IGÇÖm very sad I canGÇÖt use the radial menu in this scanning interface and beta map. It works better for me then right click menus.
The ship icon needs to stand out more. IGÇÖm thinking it should be colored so it can quickly be found. In the old map you could quickly find your ship because of the big GÇ£you are hereGÇ¥ label. In the scanning interface and beta map, itGÇÖs hard for me to quickly see where my ship is. While the range markers are a visual cue where your ship is, you canGÇÖt see those markers when zoomed in to look at a planet and itGÇÖs moons. (I zoom in like this when scouting a POS and trying to not get caught in a bubble trap.)
Speaking of the range markers, I never used those in the old map and didnGÇÖt realize I could turn that on. I would always hover over objects to see their range. Again, this is much nicer than using the overview to find ranges. I would like the hover to find range feature added to the scanning interface / beta map.
Bookmarks are very important to me in this view. They need to be viewable at all zoom levels.
Another feature I didnGÇÖt know existed in the old solar system map is the ability to aim your dscan with the map. I think IGÇÖll start using this feature so IGÇÖll add this to my list as well.
A minor nitpick I have is the interface shows nebula that doesn't match the system you're in. It looks very weird and breaks immersion. ItGÇÖs not that important though.
What would be really nice is if the solar system view and scanning could be integrated into the main game view. |
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1198
|
Posted - 2015.09.12 10:26:37 -
[30] - Quote
The things that matter. Moving probes is a 8itch. Not showing your route when you set a destination is a 8itch. The music or ambient sound that you cannot turn off is a 8itch. Couple of small things are a 8itch, specially this one "I would suggest getting rid of tooltips completely for celestial objects (planets, moons, stations, sun). I really donGÇÖt like having them in the probe view as I want as fine detail as possible, and they overlap each other - especially with moons." What a 8itch...
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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TurboX3
Hax. Shadow Cartel
132
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Posted - 2015.09.14 09:52:47 -
[31] - Quote
When I land + get home i'll jump on SiSi + see excited.
No Trolling Please
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
349
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 22:40:23 -
[32] - Quote
Maybe Corbexx or someone from Team Psycho Sisters could come by and talk about the requirements and goals for this new scanning interface and the new map. Considering all of the work done on it, there's a lot of difficulty in just getting it to feature parity for combat probing and DSCAN, and I'd be interested in what they've set out for themselves, considering the effort that's been put in.
Previous Devblogs:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/a-map-to-treasure/ http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/x-marks-the-spot-the-new-star-map-is-out-of-beta/
From these devblogs:
- improving both the visual experience and usability of the map
- Updated Visuals
- WeGÇÖve put the map in an actual space scene with nebulas and stars and ditched the old flat black background.
- WeGÇÖve also made a lot of changes to coloring, highlighting, and labeling in the map to improve readability and aesthetic appeal (sexiness).
- Adding windowed mode to make scanning resizable and retain 100% functionality of fullscreen mode. Allow you to use a second monitor for scanning interface while retaining full game control.
So improving the visual experience and usability sounds great. A lot of the testing shows that usability is actually WORSE than the old map currently. We are still a long way from feature parity, and missing DSCAN functionality inside the map is a big part of this. I think more details on exactly what the goals for the change are here.
Updating visuals - this is more of what I'd like to hear back from the team on. Is there a technical limitation on why the old map can't be iterated on? My guess is that the type of vector graphics they're using has limitations and cant just be imported into a window? The old map is very minimalistic but very usable, other than a few minor complaints like the floating Star Map/Solar System Map window, and lack of dynamic visual DSCAN range.
Putting the skybox into the solar system map aesthetically is very nice, and I think newer players or casual scanners will appreciate it. But please make sure there is an option for us to keep the flat black background for client performance, efficiency and removing distractions.
Honestly I think you should review the changes for coloring/highlighting/labelling. The use of tooltip popups is VERY annoying in the new map because of how detailed we need to drill down sometimes, especially when combat scanning. The old map having the small celestial icons for sun, planets, moons, etc works very well. Personally I'd rather keep this way, because the tooltips stack on top of themselves. are very large and don't scale down as you zoom in well. Go back and look at some of the feedback from the overlay stacking - as this was some good work for managing these old type of icons.
In terms of the galaxy map, that's another place I have a lot of feedback, but I don't use the Beta map a lot because the classic galaxy map is much easier to read and find hotspots for pilots in space, ratting numbers ,etc. The same when flattened for looking at stargate routes, which I don't believe the new galaxy map can do. The "Abstract Layout" is sort of flattened, and the heat dots for info is getting better, but still needs a lot of work.
Adding the windowed mode was a good goal because switching between the game interface and fullscreen scanning interface is slow, and limits what you can do while you're scanning. Being able to take advantage of multi monitor setups is a very good idea. The self-contained probe results window need an option to be removed however, so single monitor setups who want to use window mode don't have it taking up unneeded space, or if we want to fullscreen in single-monitor mode we can use our existing window setups. For example, I typically have my scanning window open fullscreen on one monitor, and Siggy/Tripwire on the other in a browser window to make updates. |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
349
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:57:57 -
[33] - Quote
Another important point: Make sure the text results from the Scan Results is consistent for us to copy/paste. This is huge for third party tools like Siggy and Tripwire, and I don't want them to have to parse the scan results differently. For example:
Classic Map Results:
CGW-624Cosmic SignatureWormholeUnstable Wormhole100.00%8.56 AU
New Test Map Results:
8.56 AUCGW-624Unstable Wormhole100.0%
As mentioned before, some of the columns are just missing from the new map right now, but the copy text order is wrong as well, despite looking the same. |
Vala Ancalagon
The Order of Thelemic Ascension Novus Dominatum
32
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 00:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
I have commented on the two previous feedback threads for the beta map so I'll do so again.
First what has improved over the "old beta" design! - The sloggy inertia feel is gone, honestly my main difficulty using the old beta map. - The circle cursor is gone, another huge improvement. Now I can point at things! - I like how the sig shows what % it is identified right on the object! - Bookmarks appear to work now in wh's through the map, thank you for the right click options!
What still needs improvement (imo of course) - Drop the black balloon backgrounds, they aren't necessary, and clutter it up. - If you're going to have a window you can size and move around for the map, why not attach the controls for scanning to it? Going full screen in this map means you can't scan! - The arrows for moving around the probes are awkward, but I'm not sure I have a suggestion for that. That isn't anything new with the beta map of course.
Another note: I don't really think you needed to eliminate the ability to zoom directly out to the larger star map, but maybe that was something you had to do on the code side. I did kind of like the cohesiveness of being able to view everything then zoom all the way into your current system. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
576
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 00:45:21 -
[35] - Quote
corbexx wrote:this is from the team working on the scanning UI. Quote:Team Psycho Sisters invite you to try out our new Scanning interface on the Singularity test server. We have made some changes to the interface based on feedback on the new map, and have pulled scanning out of the map entirely to reside in its own window. The feature can be accessed by Ctrl-Left Clicking the Probe Scanner button. This is a temporary place for the feature while we perform some user experience testing on it. For help on how to connect to the Singularity test server, please see this helpdesk article: https://ccpcommunity.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202331461-Test-Server-Singularity-. Please try out all the scanning use cases you care to, especially ones you use frequently on Tranquility. To give us feedback, please fill in this short survey following your time testing out the new interface.
This crap looks like it was designed by a Goon!
Oh wait
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 06:22:18 -
[36] - Quote
Tried it. Liked the resizable window.
Functionality is alright accept for
Problem one Can probe range be displayed on the probe circles so we can minimise the drop down box that shows Probe 1 -5AU Probe 2 - 5AU etc without losing functionality.
Problem Two I should be able to tight beam (15 degreee) dscan using this new interface window by lining my ship(current postion icon) up with a anom etc like I can in the current solar system map.
Problem Three Need distance to planets,anoms, sigs as a hover tool tip like current solar system map.
Note when I refer to current solar system map I mean the original map. Not the beta one.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
353
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 07:45:10 -
[37] - Quote
What is the base concept above merging probes tab with system solar map? This may be good for wormhole life when you scan one or few systems, but for 25+ jumps exploring it will be pain. First thing I do after jump is checking probes tab for anoms and sigs, do I have to open solar system map every time? Also tactical overlay showed on map should be 14,3 AU why 25? Can't D-scan that far anyway.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1432
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 20:34:45 -
[38] - Quote
Could not test myself yet ... but besides the feature parity on the probe and results management my top 3 for a usuable scanning view (all possible with classic map):
1. Separation of map window and results window, it's crucial to be able to keep scanning in "flight/combat mode" 2. Full zoom in and out, especially in Thera. You need to able to visually tell that a ship is (not) co-located with which moon. 3. Exact distance of objects displayed in map. You need to be able to see if a ship is a couple 1k away from a POS/moon.
BTW, why is CCP answering questions on Reddit and keeps quiet in it's own forum???
I'm my own NPC alt.
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2722
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 14:35:04 -
[39] - Quote
Heyyyy you guyyys,
So, first off on behalf of Team Psycho Sisters, thanks so much for all of this feedback. We've got lots of it from here, reddit, survey, anecdotes, and Corbexx has some more for us too that he's been gathering through his channels. In the spirit of iteration, we thought we'd share some of the inital changes that have been made to the new interface based on the feedback. Please note that this list, while comprehensive of changes that have already been made, is not indicative of the final shape of the product and we are absolutely looking for an ongoing discussion so that we can deliver a scanning interface we can all be proud of and have fun using.
Before I give you the list though, I wanted to let you know about my own EVE background. I started playing in 2010 and did the oh-so-familiar train-mine-quit cycle. Came back with a friend a few weeks later, hooked up with other friends that had been playing for a while, did some missioning until that got old and then it was off to wormhole space! I've lived out of C1-4 holes, never a 5 or 6, since then (barring a brief sojourn into FW, which was fun but lacked the awesome dread that WH space imparts to me - and I'm not talking Moros). I do a ton of scanning, mainly sigs but a fair bit of combat too, so I have a lot of attachment to the scanning system, though who knows - I may use it in totally different ways to many of you. From reading this thread alone, it is clear that scanning styles and use cases vary wildly and that's one of the reasons it's so important to the team to have this discourse and iron out discrepancies.
Anyway, enough about me! Here are the changes made so far, in no particular order, based on your feedback. The new interface has been re-enabled again on Singularity, available via Ctrl-Click on the existing Probe Scanner button. Give it another go and let us know how you feel!
- Reverted probe position controls to the old one - Removed experimental alt-click probe positioning - Fixed position update on probe markers on init and probe warp - Tweaked colors of probes and scene, removed starfield - Added sun marker filter (applies to all new maps) - Changed appearance and behaviour of probe move/scale controls - Visibility of scan result in 3D scene reflects selection state of result list - Decreased min size of probe scan window - Made standard filters toggleable through 1,2,3,4,5 keys (this only works when the window is active and does not overwrite other bindings, and cannot be rebound) - Added distance on celesital and scan result markers (applies to map as well) - Made it possible to scan by hitting RETURN when window has focus - Added smaller "No probes deployed" hint so its visible if the probes menu is at its min size - Making ignored result clickable to reset the state, changed icon to X - Adding help icon explaining probe position modifier keys - Change Range only accessible while pressing ALT - Added menu icon on filtered and ignored status texts - Added support for configurable min height in DockPanelMenu allowing probe menu to be resized to one entry - Tweaked fadeout distance on bookmark markers (applies to map as well) - Synced the tooltip delay to inflight-bracket tooltip delay - Added camera center offset to mapview camera - Fixed spots in 3D scene for planets and moons - cleaned up scan result entry - Unified probe, intersection, warpline, movement line colors - Added map backdrop - Removed probe status in probelist - Dimmed the starfield - Polished icons on formation and probe buttons - Tweaked appearance of menu resize handles - Tweaked the layout so all controls are in the sidepanel - Re-enabled the new probe scan window by CTRL-Click probescan button - Implemented highlight indication on probes and results
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
490
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Posted - 2015.09.17 15:05:03 -
[40] - Quote
These changes are amazing. Will jump on later to test. Thank you for making so many of the important tweaks.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Varyah
I am Forever of the Stars
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 15:08:40 -
[41] - Quote
Why can't scanning not just happen in space (as in not in a separate window).
This would provide a more immersive gameplay that feels like exploration and not just another somewhat disconnected minigame in the actual game. I mean, why are signatures actually shown by the sensor overlay in space again? |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire Great Blue Balls of Fire
660
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 15:31:54 -
[42] - Quote
Here's how I'm using it my first time. Bit cramped for space on my 22" monitor. This would be great throwing on second monitor so scanning window is on right monitor and normal client is on left. However since I'm usually using second monitor for another character that's a bit moot.
This is pretty cool. I like the idea just wonder if its not very practical.
Complaints/Issues: 1. Scan sig down. Zoom out to scan next sig and have issues moving probes because 100% sig is 'on top'. 2. The probe manipulator box scales with window height. The box size is tiny when window height is at min. Like barely bigger than cursor! 3. The balloons for planets/gates/etc. are annoying. Can't they pop up only if mouse hovers for a second or something? I had to turn nearly all of them off just so I could actually scan. 4. Not related to scanning but I'd like to be able to vertically change camera center for this new scanning window.
Comments: 1. Would like to be able to position the controls on either side of scanning window. I.E. move the analyze/probes/scan results block to left side. Maybe make it free floating? 2. Whats the point of the destroy probes button? Why would you ever want to destroy your probes? Shouldn't this just be removed? 3. Toggling anoms on/off is now a 2 click operation.
Blue-Fire Best Fire
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
355
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 15:40:26 -
[43] - Quote
Adding my feedback to the same doc as before. Found some weird bugs related to zooming in/out and resizing the window:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hcc59_ZWxoTjTkfz0st8-e-f9E_ojrc3leSwP04iSj0 |
Arla Sarain
653
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 15:46:35 -
[44] - Quote
Varyah wrote:Why can't scanning not just happen in space (as in not in a separate window).
This would provide a more immersive gameplay that feels like exploration and not just another somewhat disconnected minigame in the actual game. I mean, why are signatures actually shown by the sensor overlay in space again? Yeap.
Noticed improvements: *Snapping is superfast, could be a tad slower, but still appreciate the speed of the new new map. *Bookmarks don't fade out too much. *Scanning cube scale is constant regardless of window size. Makes it easier to interact with.
Things that were not addressed since last iteration: *Bookmarks don't show distance. They do in the old old window. *Bookmarks still warpable only through right click, no click-n-hold contextual menu. *Progress rings still constant scale. Seriously, try zooming out in a small window. Now you have a huge green clusterfudge full of anomalies. *Also, why do anomalies have progress rings? They can never be below 100% anyway. *I suggest you animate the progress ring so that at 100% it shows up briefly, then disappears. *Still not possible to filter through sigs by selecting them in the probe window, like you can in the old map. Specifically, by selecting one sig they others fade out, but their progress is not lost. *Someone still has an unhealthy intimate fascination with the skybox. It's a scanning interface, not a canvas. *"Type" column is still not present in the embed probe scanner window by default. Can't figure whats a Relic, Combat site or whatever. Have to Google by names and remember by heart. *Tactical overlay is too faded out. Trick is if you make too opaque it blends with the orbital paths. Hence the previous suggestion of changing color. *The pop-out signature window when you hover your mouse over a sig is too fast and snappy. This presents an issue when you need to send your scanning cube into a bunch of anoms/100% sig. Hovering your mouse over these spams you with these popup windows, making it difficult to interact with the cube. *It is still possible to accidentally drag the cube by the arrow and fling at the speed of light to the bottom of nowhere. There need to be some artificial limits to the scanning window 3D box. Something like 400-500AU box. Doubt there is a system bigger than that. All sigs appear around celestials anyway.
Overall, not much of an improvement. Still obtrusive and sends a message that functionality was sacrificed in favour of bling and glitter. Wouldn't use it over the F10 variant.
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
833
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:35:46 -
[45] - Quote
Are all changes active on Sisi? There has not been a new build depoyed in 2 days.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1963
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 17:31:07 -
[46] - Quote
Center probes on self button, pretty please?
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Ashterothi
Nova Haven
292
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 17:50:45 -
[47] - Quote
Here are my notes from my playing with the feature after it was updated:
Small red dots are hard to double click on. Unscanned sigs could be a bit more obvious and have a higher priority for clicking. Inconsistent that you click on the dot for sigs, but the label above the dot for everything else. Bigger would be better, customizable scalability would be best ;-)
Probe bubble visual effect nifty. But would be fun to see the same bounce with resizes.
I cannot highlight a sig on the scan results screen and see which of the small red dots it is. I can see it for scanned sigs. I CAN get this information from hovering over the red dot, so it isnGÇÖt like that information is hidden.
enter to probe is fantastic. Can we get this for Dscan? ;-)
Here is the real problem: I cannot visually check to see what are sigs and what are anams in the list. The filter out anoms is not obvious ( I couldnGÇÖt figure it out by just monkeying with it and I know it is a possibility. Someone who does not know about it, don't know how to do any filtering). So I just scanned down a sig, but I donGÇÖt actually know which one is sigs and which ones are anoms on the list without memorizing what sites are what. This is worse than the old system. I would like more information about my scan results, but the customization of that panel is god awful.
Follow up: I finally found the filters, and think it is OK. However the UI has taught us that customization is either at the top or bottom of the panel, and filtering is generally at the bottom (see inventory). Also the place to control filters, is different than the place that reports filters. I think some UI flourish (even a carrot or something) to indicate there is more information there is in order.
Finally, the fact we are not getting the option to turn on our dscan cone makes me sad.I thought we lived in the future!
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Vic Vorlon
Aideron Robotics
31
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 18:59:16 -
[48] - Quote
I have a suggestion for a little feature - how about a keyboard shortcut and a separate UI control for the size of the probe spheres? The current method of pointing the mouse to the edge of one of the spheres can sometimes be fiddly, but if you were to ADD (not substitute) a keyboard shortcut and/or a slider (a la dscan range control) in the UI, that would be great.
I'm thinking up/down arrow, or page-up/page-down to change probe sphere size up (16AU to 32AU, for example) or down (16AU to 8AU for example). |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
490
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 19:13:36 -
[49] - Quote
Vic Vorlon wrote:I have a suggestion for a little feature - how about a keyboard shortcut and a separate UI control for the size of the probe spheres? The current method of pointing the mouse to the edge of one of the spheres can sometimes be fiddly, but if you were to ADD (not substitute) a keyboard shortcut and/or a slider (a la dscan range control) in the UI, that would be great.
I'm thinking up/down arrow, or page-up/page-down to change probe sphere size up (16AU to 32AU, for example) or down (16AU to 8AU for example).
Seconded, this would be awesome. Now with the ENTER hotkey it means you could scan very efficiently.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Vala Ancalagon
The Order of Thelemic Ascension Novus Dominatum
32
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Posted - 2015.09.18 00:24:01 -
[50] - Quote
A couple suggestions:
- Right now when you hover over a sig in the sig list, the % circle lights up. I think the dot in the middle should also get brighter. I also think you should be able to click the sig in the list, and have it stay highlighted. That way you can highlight a sig you want to look at, then move the probes around to do so without losing track of which dot that was that you cared about. The other sigs should fade back a bit when doing this.
- Still don't like the balloons!
- Would still like the ability to align for dscan from within the map
- I like vic's suggestion also!
- I don't agree that the popup for hovering over sigs is too fast... why would anyone want something to be slower???
- Bookmarks don't show distance, but they should!
- The background is faded out enough now that it isn't an issue
- It would be interesting to see the locations of fleet members in your system on the map but that's probably beyond scope or intended capability.
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Quesa
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
82
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Posted - 2015.09.18 03:32:17 -
[51] - Quote
Hey guys, good changes so far.
One of my biggest issues with the current probing system is the ability to accidentally grab the wrong axis. So, if you're looking down on the probes, you are still able to click and drag on the UP arrow. Given the perspective at the time, the most minute movements will throw the probes very far out of view and very difficult to bring them back into the view. Most of the time this results in having to recall and re-deploy probes.
If you can see it here: http://i.imgur.com/Gf3dVwk.jpg. This shows me looking down on the probes and dragging using the up arrow. Now, from this view, this http://i.imgur.com/HO284Jf.png shows me looking strait down, in an attempt to move the probes along the x and z axis but still able to click and hold the y axis. Keep in mind that this is me having the window open to almost full screen and zoomed in close the the probes. Think of this issue when speed of scanning has consequences and you are zoomed out with other markers on the screen and trying to move the probes around a system, if you then grab the y axis, you're in big trouble, like here http://i.imgur.com/LdrcFsO.png. Now, look at the previous picture and then this http://i.imgur.com/c7BEsYc.png notice how short of distance the mouse was moved to the left, this resulted in the probes ending up so far up that they cannot be seen or moved without completely zooming out of the solar system, like here http://i.imgur.com/PrCGaSh.png. |
Montecore Qubaal
The Order of Thelemic Ascension Novus Dominatum
4
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Posted - 2015.09.18 06:49:46 -
[52] - Quote
Great changes! This new iteration is much better. I can actually use and get by with the current version. I would like to see more work done to bring it on par with the old map. Anyway, great progress!
Sometimes when you enter a system with the scan interface open, the GÇ£you are hereGÇ¥ marker get broken. It is located at the sun and doesnGÇÖt move with your ship. I still would like that marker to be colored.
IGÇÖm happy to see that hovering over a celestial now displays your distance to that celestial. IGÇÖm hoping the box containing that info could be widened. The bookmarks pins also need to show your distance to the bookmark. I forgot to check if anomalies show their distance. Basically everything on the map should show your distance to it like on the old solar system map.
I agree with the other posters that there need to be a tiny menu icon placed next to the Filtered and Ignored menu labels to indicate to people that those are actually interactable menus.
So that I can still use the overview, dscan, and chat boxes, I canGÇÖt make my probing window very large. It works well with my full size monitor. IGÇÖm concerned that it wouldnGÇÖt be good on a small screen like on a laptop. It would be nice to be able to use the interface like the old interface which is to put it in full screen mode with your windows (probe scanner,overview, dscan, chat) on top.
To be consistent with the rest of the game and because I prefer it, I hope the radial menu can be made to work in the scanning interface. |
Arla Sarain
655
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:18:24 -
[53] - Quote
Vala Ancalagon wrote: - I don't agree that the popup for hovering over sigs is too fast... why would anyone want something to be slower???
So that when you need to traverse your cursor over the sigs in the map window to navigate to the probe box you aren't spammed with these and remain unable to interact with the box because they overlap.
In retrospect, the fade delay cannot be reduced because it's needed so that you could hover over the popup panel and use the warp button from there. Which would be redundant if the radial menu and the contextual right click menu actually worked...
Hence fix the radial menu and assume people will use it or the right click menu to warp to sigs from the map and reduce the fade out timer of the popup that occurs when you swipe your cursor across a field of sigs/anoms. |
Ong
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
112
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Posted - 2015.09.18 23:44:03 -
[54] - Quote
Sorry if this has already been brought up, but on the system currently on TQ, if I align my 'you are here' and say the sun while in the map, select 30 degrees and hit the d-scan button, the directional results change to the sun, and whatever is on the sun.
Under this new system the d-scan results do not change when doing this.
This is currently a really useful feature for quickly getting a fix on things in system. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1965
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 07:49:56 -
[55] - Quote
Why for the love of god is there still celestial brackets stacking at close zoom, and why is the maximum zoom so limited compared to the old map? (That enabled you to see each moon separately)
Being able to tell if an enemy is on moon 1 or moon 2 with combat probes isn't a luxury!
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Montrazar Ormand
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.09.20 08:45:45 -
[56] - Quote
This is from the point of view of probe scanning anomalies, very little experience of combat scanning
It looks and works better than the previous attempt I still would not use it for scanning over the orginal
First thing I noticed apart from the fact it is still in a window that covers everything else on your screen depending on size is that whislt it shows the various spreads of probes available to you, you cannot click on them and launch, i had to go back to the old probe screen and launch from there - having tried again, it seems it is my saved spreads that cannot launch from that window, the default ones can! The fact that it covers everything else is really useless when you are using a modest/regular sized monitor, even when dragged to full size (no auto windows style full screen/windowed button apparent) Can we have an option to turn off the 'You are here' marker as well please, too big, too intrusive. Have to say my first action (after trying screen resizing) was to find out where to switch all the markers off. Why do we need the progress rings, the information in the original window on the bar and now the thin line under the anom name is enough, unnecessary clutter as far as I am concerned Clicking on an anomaly needs to have that as the only signature on the scanner like now, not just fade it out a bit otherwise I will be constantly ignoring and re-show signatures, no thanks I will use the old system. In a wormhole with losts of sigs this is particularly annoying. Definitely need an identifier for the type of site as mentioned by others, no good having to remember once they are scanned, even the hover over box does not tell you.
In summary, still not a fan, nothing so far has convinced me that I want to switch from the current system. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
203
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Posted - 2015.09.20 08:53:39 -
[57] - Quote
I only tested anomalie scanning not combat scanning.
The first thing i did was take off all the markers(except sattelite, still haven't seen on of those ). They clutter up the window that it is hard to see where to move the probes. Even the probe markers get in the way, if i need to move them seperatly pressing shift is easier. First hing i hate is the fact that you can't expand the scan results window to the left or right. Now it is to small to see the sig name and what the thing is you scanned. The mouse over helps but should not be the only thing needed. The scan results are copyable wich i like( needed for wh-mappers). A thing a noticed, when scanning a wormhole it suddently had 2 indicators, one just a normal filled dot one and one with the triangle wit dot above it one. Ma-ybe a bug? If you know it is a wh then the dot one needs to go. And since the sig and it outercircle do not scale it became harder to actualy find the correct one of the two. Also could the recover probe button be ontop next to the formations? It is actualy used quite often, before i jump a hole... .
Also some functionality i miss i seeing wich scan filter you set . Or is that obscured by the fact that you can not enlarge the scan results window horizontaly? O, by the way the sun doesn't need to be that bright .
If you ignore scanresults you can only un-ignore them all , not specific ones like you could in the old scan results window.
I think i have found a small bug. I was zoomed in on the sun before i jumped the wormhole. In the new system the marker of where i was was at the sun, but my ship was elsewhere(at the hole i jumped through). The start was close (3.85au) but as i bookmarked the hole the bm marker was at the correct location.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
103
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 12:27:56 -
[58] - Quote
I like the overall direction, it's an improvement from the beta map, but it is still worse than the old system map.
Some good stuff:
- The DScan overlay is fainter than the system orbits now, making it less obtrusive (old grievance of mine) - The signature dots are smaller, which is welcome - Having the probe controls within the same window as the map is very nice - Being able to collapse the useless probe list is great (you could just do away with it since probes work in groups now) - Running a scan by hitting enter (thank you so much!)
Some stuff that needs work:
- Zoom levels are still inadequate, on both ends of the spectrum - Map markers are too obtrusive... maybe we could turn them off without losing all indication that there is something there? Like leaving a small dot on celestials when you deactivate their marker? - The map window reference for centering appears to be in the middle of the square that has no control elements in it, rather than the center of the whole window. Maybe some like it that way, but I finde the probe controls unintrusive and the off-center reference drives me nuts, could we have an option like we do with the ship cam? - The signature list is missing some columns, and while I have at times wished I could turn some off, I find I don't know all the data sites by name and thus can't avoid them fast enough now :P - The anom filtering mechanism needs work. Unfortunately I can't quite suggest a good way of doing it, but I hope you'll come up with something before you're in need of squeezing citadels in there - Tooltips are way too fast to trigger - Probes should take precedence for selection ALWAYS. They are the raison d'etre of this map and in no circumstance should I have to fight other map elements when I am trying to drag a probe arrow. Or, from another point of view, Probes are easy to move out of the way if I do need to click on a planet. - Any chance we could launch probes on self rather than on the sun?
And I know this it mostly offtopic but, is there any chance we can hope for a dscan functionality rework? Alter ranges based on hull? Pretty please? In the name of de-dumbing exploration? |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 01:20:24 -
[59] - Quote
Stil no Dscan functionality in the new probe window that I can see.
Without DSCAN it will just take more time as we need to switch back to the old solar system map to do a 15 degree dscan of a moon/anom etc
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
878
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 00:35:46 -
[60] - Quote
I dont appreciate that new scanning window pushes new icons on me. This was last straw.
-2 paying accounts.
https://gyazo.com/417ca44bc3a8399c702af46dd0b77605
The whole of this year was a waste of my time. Good bye. |
|
Emma en Divalone
Eve Minions The-Company
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 01:22:12 -
[61] - Quote
Thank you CCP for continuing to work on and improve the new scanning interface. I have not used previous iterations of the beta map so I cannot comment on the progression of changes but from what IGÇÖve heard this is a marked improvement. Some comments I have on the new scanning interface as an avid explorer.
- The icon the displaying the status of the cosmic signature is the same size as the box to move the probes so when zoomed out it interferes will being able to move the probes around by the box
- When looking from a top down perspective, the shading of the arrows and box is almost too light to even see, darken the shading
- The center probe in the pinpoint formationGÇÖs icon makes it difficult to grab the box to move the probes. Possible to only have it display when you are holding ctrl?
- Having all of the probes displayed even when not pressing ctrl is very distracting. Possible to only have them display when you are holding ctrl?
- Center probe arrows bugs out, rapidly changes its orientation, when shrinking or expanding the probe centering using ctrl
- The tooltips are very large and intrusive to scanning
- Double clicking on item in scan results window has the signature centered to the left of the actual center of the center
- Would it be possible to leave in the ability to grab the edge of the probe spheres in order to shrink their size? ItGÇÖs a big quality of life thing for somebody who scans so much daily in being able to do everything I need to do to scan with just the mouse
- When grabbing the arrows along the plane of the universe from a perpendicular angle, only see them side on, and try to move them, the probe move sporadically, not following the cursor
- The recentering on double clicking something is a bit too quick for my taste, if possible tune this down a touch
|
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 01:29:29 -
[62] - Quote
Seeing as your quiting an all.. how bout helping a fellow wormholer out and depositing all your now useless ISK in my bank account ?
May BoB smile upon you.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1218
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 15:47:34 -
[63] - Quote
I want his stuff!
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
362
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 17:32:15 -
[64] - Quote
I don't get it. We have new probe scanner window merged with solar system map. Why have second solar system map on star map level (beta map)? Zooming up solar system from star map level is impaired. Very bad at scalling, anoms merge into green ball. It's hard to tell were gates are leading in "crowded" constellations. My 2 euros to new probe scanner. I did only few scanns, it's better than before, still not good enough, definately a progess.
Probe scanner window in compact mode: - recover, reconnect, destroy buttons are too small ( recover is second most using button here, it must be bigger); - filtering still not enough accurate, I want to tell if system have ghost site or ore site without browsing 20 anoms; - instead "disable compat mode button" I would prefer something like old probe scanner "map button"; - fast filter shortcuts (1-5), maybe 1-anoms, 2-sigs - most common use for filtering (there are not scan group tab at new probe scanner, it would be easier to filter them.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
358
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 14:39:46 -
[65] - Quote
Some new changes to the scanner on SiSi:
Holding ALT shows "cones" for each of the probes to be able to expand/contract the distribution multiple AU. While holding it down, the probe cube and arrows disappear. I like this cleaner look.
Holding CTRL shows "slider arrows" that let you slide the probes to manually compact at the current range. While holding it down, the probe cube and arrows disappear. I like this cleaner look. Also, thank you for getting rid of the blinding white overlap when trying to arrange individual probes.
Holding SHIFT shows the individual probe formation, and allows you to move them manually in formation. I'm glad this is still an option, as when we're trying to scan something extremely difficult down; like a Sleeper Cache site, moving individual probes is absolutely necessary to squeak it to 100%.
Couple suggestions/requests:
- Not sure what happened with the recent change on SiSi, but I cant grab the blue probe distribution to expand/contract it at all anymore with just left-click/hold/drag anymore. Having to hold down ALT to shift the probes larger/smaller is very annoying, and doubles the APM, as I'm always snapping around the orientation while moving the entire formation and then shrinking/expanding the distance around the signature.
- Can we change highlight color when we mouse over a probe or arrow? I'd prefer green or blue rather than red, but I'm sure others will have their preference.
- The cube/cone/arrows for the probe formation, and the signature beacons themselves should scale down more as you zoom in. It still feels clunky with how large they are. It's not POS-module-anchoring-arrow-level-green-box huge, but it's still rather unwieldy.
|
Rex Noia
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 21:08:02 -
[66] - Quote
- When launching probes in a new system, the position arrows/box will appear in the location where they were last recalled. This can make them needlessly hard to find when scanning a small system after a big one such as Thera. Can the position controls appear in the place the probes are launched?(i.e. at the location of the scanning ship).
- The RETURN key is fairly far from where hands rest while scanning (mouse/left side of the keyboard) . To minimize movement, SPACEBAR feels like a more comfortable shortcut. I guess this can be subjective so the ability to customize it would be ideal.
- It would be great if you could allow resizing of the probe formation via ALT+mouse scroll, or ALT+drag. Having to click cones all the time is annoying.
- This one has always been a problem (also in the old map): When moving your probe formation around, sometimes you might accidentally click one of the arrows that is facing you, displacing the whole thing hundreds of AU towards or away from you. Is it possible to hide these arrows that are on the axis you are looking from?
- Very often the 'You are here' icon will incorrectly appear at the sun's location.
Thanks for the hard work! |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 21:12:11 -
[67] - Quote
Rex Noia wrote:
- When launching probes in a new system, the position arrows/box will appear in the location where they were last recalled. This can make them needlessly hard to find when scanning a small system after a big one such as Thera. Can the position controls appear in the place the probes are launched?(i.e. at the location of the scanning ship).
- The RETURN key is fairly far from where hands rest while scanning (mouse/left side of the keyboard) . To minimize movement, SPACEBAR feels like a more comfortable shortcut. I guess this can be subjective so the ability to customize it would be ideal.
- It would be great if you could allow resizing of the probe formation via ALT+mouse scroll, or ALT+drag. Having to click cones all the time is annoying.
- This one has always been a problem (also in the old map): When moving your probe formation around, sometimes you might accidentally click one of the arrows that is facing you, displacing the whole thing hundreds of AU towards or away from you. Is it possible to hide these arrows that are on the axis you are looking from?
- Very often the 'You are here' icon will incorrectly appear at the sun's location.
Thanks for the hard work!
Great points. If center on ship probes can't happen, can they at least center on the sun? Something predictable?
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
|
Zappity
the 57th Overlanders Brigade A Band Apart.
2458
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 22:38:19 -
[68] - Quote
I seem to recall that the lack of a 'centre on me' option was deliberate to increase the time required to probe on grid. It would be much better if there was a different solution, though. Perhaps probe time should be doubled if on grid or something.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
motie one
Secret Passage
29
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:02:17 -
[69] - Quote
Emma en Divalone wrote:Thank you CCP for continuing to work on and improve the new scanning interface. I have not used previous iterations of the beta map so I cannot comment on the progression of changes but from what IGÇÖve heard this is a marked improvement. Some comments I have on the new scanning interface as an avid explorer.
- The icon the displaying the status of the cosmic signature is the same size as the box to move the probes so when zoomed out it interferes will being able to move the probes around by the box
- When looking from a top down perspective, the shading of the arrows and box is almost too light to even see, darken the shading
- The center probe in the pinpoint formationGÇÖs icon makes it difficult to grab the box to move the probes. Possible to only have it display when you are holding ctrl?
- Having all of the probes displayed even when not pressing ctrl is very distracting. Possible to only have them display when you are holding ctrl?
- Center probe arrows bugs out, rapidly changes its orientation, when shrinking or expanding the probe centering using ctrl
- The tooltips are very large and intrusive to scanning
- Double clicking on item in scan results window has the signature centered to the left of the actual center of the center
- Would it be possible to leave in the ability to grab the edge of the probe spheres in order to shrink their size? ItGÇÖs a big quality of life thing for somebody who scans so much daily in being able to do everything I need to do to scan with just the mouse
- When grabbing the arrows along the plane of the universe from a perpendicular angle, only see them side on, and try to move them, the probe move sporadically, not following the cursor
- The recentering on double clicking something is a bit too quick for my taste, if possible tune this down a touch
Yes dragging the probe sphere to reduce, is essential, currently as tested it turns scanning from a one handed task to requiring both hands. I want to be able to drink my coffee! |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1028
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:18:31 -
[70] - Quote
Quesa wrote:Hey guys, good changes so far. One of my biggest issues with the current probing system is the ability to accidentally grab the wrong axis. So, if you're looking down on the probes, you are still able to click and drag on the UP arrow. Given the perspective at the time, the most minute movements will throw the probes very far out of view and very difficult to bring them back into the view. Most of the time this results in having to recall and re-deploy probes. Better illustration: If you can see it here: http://i.imgur.com/Gf3dVwk.jpg. This shows me looking down on the probes and dragging using the up arrow. Now, from this view, this http://i.imgur.com/HO284Jf.png shows me looking strait down, in an attempt to move the probes along the x and z axis but still able to click and hold the y axis. Keep in mind that this is me having the window open to almost full screen and zoomed in close the the probes. Think of this issue when speed of scanning has consequences and you are zoomed out with other markers on the screen and trying to move the probes around a system, if you then grab the y axis, you're in big trouble, like here http://i.imgur.com/LdrcFsO.png. Now, look at the previous picture and then this http://i.imgur.com/c7BEsYc.png notice how short of distance the mouse was moved to the left, this resulted in the probes ending up so far up that they cannot be seen or moved without completely zooming out of the solar system, like here http://i.imgur.com/PrCGaSh.png. Excellent points + illustration. This is a issue in the old map as well. It would be fantastic if it were possible to resolve (or at least tone it down) this issue.
I'm right behind you
|
|
Alundil
Isogen 5
1028
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:20:13 -
[71] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I seem to recall that the lack of a 'centre on me' option was deliberate to increase the time required to probe on grid. It would be much better if there was a different solution, though. Perhaps probe time should be doubled if on grid or something. That is my recollection as well. It was argued that "combat scanning" was too fast due to the probes being centered on you at the start of the scan. This was one of the reasons (in Odyssey iirc) that it was changed to start arranged on the sun to force a little more time and manipulation of the probes.
I'm right behind you
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
362
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 06:34:47 -
[72] - Quote
Can we have this as beta feature on Tranquility?
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
834
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 04:05:50 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Heyyyy you guyyys,
So, first off on behalf of Team Psycho Sisters, thanks so much for all of this feedback. We've got lots of it from here, reddit, survey, anecdotes, and Corbexx has some more for us too that he's been gathering through his channels. In the spirit of iteration, we thought we'd share some of the inital changes that have been made to the new interface based on the feedback. Please note that this list, while comprehensive of changes that have already been made, is not indicative of the final shape of the product and we are absolutely looking for an ongoing discussion so that we can deliver a scanning interface we can all be proud of and have fun using.
Before I give you the list though, I wanted to let you know about my own EVE background. I started playing in 2010 and did the oh-so-familiar train-mine-quit cycle. Came back with a friend a few weeks later, hooked up with other friends that had been playing for a while, did some missioning until that got old and then it was off to wormhole space! I've lived out of C1-4 holes, never a 5 or 6, since then (barring a brief sojourn into FW, which was fun but lacked the awesome dread that WH space imparts to me - and I'm not talking Moros). I do a ton of scanning, mainly sigs but a fair bit of combat too, so I have a lot of attachment to the scanning system, though who knows - I may use it in totally different ways to many of you. From reading this thread alone, it is clear that scanning styles and use cases vary wildly and that's one of the reasons it's so important to the team to have this discourse and iron out discrepancies.
Anyway, enough about me! Here are the changes made so far, in no particular order, based on your feedback. The new interface has been re-enabled again on Singularity, available via Ctrl-Click on the existing Probe Scanner button. Give it another go and let us know how you feel!
- Reverted probe position controls to the old one - Removed experimental alt-click probe positioning - Fixed position update on probe markers on init and probe warp - Tweaked colors of probes and scene, removed starfield - Added sun marker filter (applies to all new maps) - Changed appearance and behaviour of probe move/scale controls - Visibility of scan result in 3D scene reflects selection state of result list - Decreased min size of probe scan window - Made standard filters toggleable through 1,2,3,4,5 keys (this only works when the window is active and does not overwrite other bindings, and cannot be rebound) - Added distance on celesital and scan result markers (applies to map as well) - Made it possible to scan by hitting RETURN when window has focus - Added smaller "No probes deployed" hint so its visible if the probes menu is at its min size - Making ignored result clickable to reset the state, changed icon to X - Adding help icon explaining probe position modifier keys - Change Range only accessible while pressing ALT - Added menu icon on filtered and ignored status texts - Added support for configurable min height in DockPanelMenu allowing probe menu to be resized to one entry - Tweaked fadeout distance on bookmark markers (applies to map as well) - Synced the tooltip delay to inflight-bracket tooltip delay - Added camera center offset to mapview camera - Fixed spots in 3D scene for planets and moons - cleaned up scan result entry - Unified probe, intersection, warpline, movement line colors - Added map backdrop - Removed probe status in probelist - Dimmed the starfield - Polished icons on formation and probe buttons - Tweaked appearance of menu resize handles - Tweaked the layout so all controls are in the sidepanel - Re-enabled the new pTrobe scan window by CTRL-Click probescan button - Implemented highlight indication on probes and results
These changes are not in the patch notes.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2731
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 10:45:16 -
[74] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Heyyyy you guyyys,
So, first off on behalf of Team Psycho Sisters, thanks so much for all of this feedback. We've got lots of it from here, reddit, survey, anecdotes, and Corbexx has some more for us too that he's been gathering through his channels. In the spirit of iteration, we thought we'd share some of the inital changes that have been made to the new interface based on the feedback. Please note that this list, while comprehensive of changes that have already been made, is not indicative of the final shape of the product and we are absolutely looking for an ongoing discussion so that we can deliver a scanning interface we can all be proud of and have fun using.
Before I give you the list though, I wanted to let you know about my own EVE background. I started playing in 2010 and did the oh-so-familiar train-mine-quit cycle. Came back with a friend a few weeks later, hooked up with other friends that had been playing for a while, did some missioning until that got old and then it was off to wormhole space! I've lived out of C1-4 holes, never a 5 or 6, since then (barring a brief sojourn into FW, which was fun but lacked the awesome dread that WH space imparts to me - and I'm not talking Moros). I do a ton of scanning, mainly sigs but a fair bit of combat too, so I have a lot of attachment to the scanning system, though who knows - I may use it in totally different ways to many of you. From reading this thread alone, it is clear that scanning styles and use cases vary wildly and that's one of the reasons it's so important to the team to have this discourse and iron out discrepancies.
Anyway, enough about me! Here are the changes made so far, in no particular order, based on your feedback. The new interface has been re-enabled again on Singularity, available via Ctrl-Click on the existing Probe Scanner button. Give it another go and let us know how you feel!
- Reverted probe position controls to the old one - Removed experimental alt-click probe positioning - Fixed position update on probe markers on init and probe warp - Tweaked colors of probes and scene, removed starfield - Added sun marker filter (applies to all new maps) - Changed appearance and behaviour of probe move/scale controls - Visibility of scan result in 3D scene reflects selection state of result list - Decreased min size of probe scan window - Made standard filters toggleable through 1,2,3,4,5 keys (this only works when the window is active and does not overwrite other bindings, and cannot be rebound) - Added distance on celesital and scan result markers (applies to map as well) - Made it possible to scan by hitting RETURN when window has focus - Added smaller "No probes deployed" hint so its visible if the probes menu is at its min size - Making ignored result clickable to reset the state, changed icon to X - Adding help icon explaining probe position modifier keys - Change Range only accessible while pressing ALT - Added menu icon on filtered and ignored status texts - Added support for configurable min height in DockPanelMenu allowing probe menu to be resized to one entry - Tweaked fadeout distance on bookmark markers (applies to map as well) - Synced the tooltip delay to inflight-bracket tooltip delay - Added camera center offset to mapview camera - Fixed spots in 3D scene for planets and moons - cleaned up scan result entry - Unified probe, intersection, warpline, movement line colors - Added map backdrop - Removed probe status in probelist - Dimmed the starfield - Polished icons on formation and probe buttons - Tweaked appearance of menu resize handles - Tweaked the layout so all controls are in the sidepanel - Re-enabled the new pTrobe scan window by CTRL-Click probescan button - Implemented highlight indication on probes and results
These changes are not in the patch notes.
As I've explained before, this isn't a feature getting released tomorrow.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
|
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Ezio Dicostanzo
Gate Is Red Drama Sutra
21
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 13:46:43 -
[75] - Quote
then why is it announced on http://updates.eveonline.com/ ??? |
Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
2305
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 13:47:11 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:As I've explained before, this isn't a feature getting released tomorrow. So we better not rely on updates.eveonline.com
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
|
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation
240
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 15:01:05 -
[77] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:As I've explained before, this isn't a feature getting released tomorrow. So we better not rely on updates.eveonline.com
You guys are terrible and should feel terrible. Your getting a new MAP for scanning that's integrated into the probing screen. These mechanics are not part of it, nor listed on the probe map changes on the updates.eve site. LEARN TO READ.
Posting should be handled like construction
Read twice (at least), post once.
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2733
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 13:40:36 -
[78] - Quote
The card got on to the site due to miscommunication between departments, sorry for the inconveniece. Ideally we are aiming for a point release in the next few weeks, but only once we and you are happy with it.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
|
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Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
2307
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 14:40:37 -
[79] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:Read twice (at least), post once. Read what you quoted twice and try to find where I refer to anything different than irritating ways of (new feature) communication, thank you.
CCP Goliath wrote:The card got on to the site due to miscommunication between departments, sorry for the inconveniece. Ideally we are aiming for a point release in the next few weeks, but only once we and you are happy with it. No harm done, I see this not-yet-feature already available on TQ as an advantage. Like the New map we have the opportunity and choice to test drive the current state and provide feedback that will sure result in a feature that also those not on sisi can count on.
Almost like an unintended opt-in checkbox.
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
|
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 17:33:16 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:The card got on to the site due to miscommunication between departments, sorry for the inconveniece. Ideally we are aiming for a point release in the next few weeks, but only once we and you are happy with it.
The scanning interface is available on TQ via the CTRL+Probe Scanner hotkey.
So it's live right now. If that wasn't intentional, I'll put it in the Vanguard issues thread. |
|
KPomgPL
Bad Intentions Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 18:13:40 -
[81] - Quote
Gave another chance to new map on sisi. It is better but still useless.
Minimal fixes to improve usability: 1) markers and signatures should not overlap box with arrows - can't move probes because of this, 2) map animation should draw faster - especially while changing angle by moving mouse horizontally and vertically, 3) in fullscreen mode map should be on fullscreen - like current map - not in a box, 4) there should be an option to hide all markers at once -had to hide them because overlapping mentioned in point #1.
Use cases for testers: 1) Try to tackle rewarping battleship with use: T2 frig, combat probes and new map ;) , 2) Try to find c6 wh in chain starting from Thera (write your time and repeat next day), 3) Try to scan all signatures in random c6 wh on sisi at least (40 signatures) (write your time and repeat next day - or jump to static and scan it) - it should take max 1-1,5 min per signature on skills lvl4.
All above use cases should make positive experience !
Bad Intentions Inc. is recruiting [C5/5 Wormhole]
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
369
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 20:27:52 -
[82] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:The scanning interface is available on TQ via the CTRL+Probe Scanner hotkey.
So it's live right now. If that wasn't intentional, I'll put it in the Vanguard issues thread.
In the meantime, I'm happy to continue using on it TQ and provide more feedback. Don't remove it from TQ please, it's better to test it that way.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2733
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 09:17:19 -
[83] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:The scanning interface is available on TQ via the CTRL+Probe Scanner hotkey.
So it's live right now. If that wasn't intentional, I'll put it in the Vanguard issues thread.
In the meantime, I'm happy to continue using on it TQ and provide more feedback. Don't remove it from TQ please, it's better to test it that way.
We can't push our latest changes to TQ, so we are going to disable it in today's update (miscommunication caused it to ship, but that's no bad thing necessarily since it doesn't break anything that existed before). This way we can always be assured of feedback on the absolute freshest iteration of the interface. I get the convenience of testing on TQ, and for the results to feel more representative, but the cost of not having our latest changes is too high, and we are changing things too fast to properly ensure quality in surrounding features, which we need to worry about less in staging. Once the feature is good from a usability and visual standpoint, we will optimise it and get it ready for production.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1448
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 12:57:35 -
[84] - Quote
would you say you're being agile
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2734
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 16:12:11 -
[85] - Quote
Singularity will be running the Brain In A Box sandbox for the next while, so while that is ongoing we ask for no further feedback on the scanning interface. We hope to be back with fresh changes and to get more feedback once the testing of BIAB has been satisfactorily resolved.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC Bad Intention
1262
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 20:41:03 -
[86] - Quote
The new map must have dscan
Probe improvements are great, but I will never switch to the new map until I can use it to dscan. It is very important to me and anyone else who does a lot of scouting.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
190
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Posted - 2015.09.30 22:36:47 -
[87] - Quote
I really dislike the new badges for planets, sun etc that appear above their actual location. It takes up too much space.
Cant we just have the same system as the old map where you clicked on a small dot and it showed the planet and its au distance from your ship.
That system was great, minimal clutter and effective.
While I appreciate the effort that has gone into this I honestly Ifeel like your trying to reinvente the wheel here with this new map for 'reasons'.
I would be totaly happy with giving the old map a resize fucntion and a transperency slider. - Transperency slider so those who want the background black can have it so and those who want the background of the actual solar system are also catered for. - Resize cause being able to scan using only 1/3 of your screen is great.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate Together We Solo
273
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:03:55 -
[88] - Quote
Unless I'm missing something you can not center on your probes just by clicking on the 'box' at the centre of the formation. This makes it rather hard to go from one sig to another if they are on different ends of a system once you move your box for the next scan. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2736
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Posted - 2015.10.05 10:18:51 -
[89] - Quote
Temp locking this for now until we have a testable version available somewhere. Please see my post above regarding feedback when there is no testable version available.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2736
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Posted - 2015.10.08 14:30:03 -
[90] - Quote
And we're back! Put on your reading pants.
Hi Scanning Fans,
Goliath and Psycho Sisters here, blasting out of our pizza comas with another wave of updates to our new scanning tool. After some technical rejiggering, weGÇÖve moved the latest version of the interface into the Brain in a Box sandbox, which is currently on Singularity. Although we still plan on releasing the interface when we deem it ready, the test server needs of BIAB meant we had no other way to get you our latest work without joining up with them, so donGÇÖt assume our release plans have changed. The system is isolated enough to test without impacting BIAB, so we donGÇÖt have a ton of concerns there. So, whatGÇÖs new? Well, before we get into the new, letGÇÖs do a quick round of catch-up for people that might be hearing about this for the first time.
So, first off, the new scanning interface can be accessed by Ctrl-Clicking the Probe Scanner button. This will pop up the new probe scanner window. To access the now decoupled Solar System map, simply click on the Solar System Map button in the new probe scanner window. Note that this is not the final implementation of how you will access these features, just the hacky way we have implemented right now so we can test the systems side by side.
These annotated pictures will give you an idea of where certain buttons and commands are in the new system: http://imgur.com/a/dzvji
Our goals for this feature are very simple: -DonGÇÖt wreck existing functionality -Make the scanning interface look and feel better than it currently does -Make quality of life improvements to scanning in general, within the boundaries of UI/UX
WeGÇÖve had plenty of feedback from you in the form of posts in various places, surveys, EVEmails, CSM-relayed info and chats on the test server. We still arenGÇÖt done talking to you though! With each wave of changes, new dynamics enter play and new priorities take hold as we see how you react, so even if you were happy with the changes before and have nothing more to say on the matter GÇô please keep trying it and telling us! Similarly, if you had issues with the current system, the beta map scanner interface, or this new interface in whatever iteration you tested, please come to us with your concerns in a balanced, constructive manner and they will be heard and addressed.
WeGÇÖve also made some changes to the Directional Scanner. As you can see in the album, we have moved some stuff around, and added a button to bring up the new solar system map. We also, as Seagull discussed last week, made the D-scan visually represented in the Solar System map. This was some functionality that had partially existed in the F11 map, but since it was only in 2D it didnGÇÖt really tick all the boxes. The most major change that you may not know about is that you can now, via the radial menu in the solar system map, focus on a target to D-Scan, such as a celestial you think your target might be hiding near. Unfortunately, as a consequence of doing this, we broke D-scan a little bit, so while it follows your in-space camera as it always did, it doesnGÇÖt work properly in the solar system map at the momentGǪ Our bad! ThatGÇÖs what test servers are for. We hope that D-scanning will be fully functional in one of our updates early next week.
Changes in this iteration: (for past changes, please see my post here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6042856#post6042856)
- Changed markers so they are more in line with inflight brackets - Enabled radial menu on markers - Changed marker overlap menu so itGÇÖs more in line with inflight bracket menu - Created a Solar System map window that will serve probes and D-scan and possibly other use cases in the future. This View is dockable like the beta map - Making the result list fill available space in the window instead of being resizeable - Linking range circle to tactical overlay state - Moved Recover button to main button row - Changed probes and result menus to be expanded by default - Adding drop-down on Ignored Result listing individual entry - Changed copy data on result entries as it is in old probe window (for pasting into Siggy and such) - Created new D-Scan window using standalone solar system view (currently only supporting target based D-scan through radial menu, this is a known issue). Accessible via Ctrl-Clicking D-scan button. - Added radial menu functionality to D-scan celestials/targets from solar system map.
Coming (hopefully) tomorrow (9th October): - Hiding formation move-control while scanning - Adding Group name in result list - Hooking up MouseWheel for probe scan range and formation spread (Ctrl/Alt key modifiers) - Added commands for Refresh Probe Scan, Refresh Directional Scan, In/Decrease Scan Range (No default mapping yet)
If youGÇÖre reading the last one thinking GÇ£does he mean that there will be a d-scan hotkey?GÇ¥, then the answer is yes. We will be adding a mappable hotkey that, when pressed, should bring up the Dscan window if it isnGÇÖt open, and scan with it if it is open. The scanning frequency time has not changed GÇô the 2sec window still applies, but hopefully this will mitigate some of the relentless precise clicking that players, particularly wormhole dwellers like myself, have had to endure to be safe.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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TurboX3
Hax. Shadow Cartel
139
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Posted - 2015.10.08 15:12:39 -
[91] - Quote
Reddit post too --> Here
No Trolling Please
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Naughty Cargo
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
48
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Posted - 2015.10.08 15:40:25 -
[92] - Quote
Hotkeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyy YES!!!!!!! :D :D :D |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
280
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Posted - 2015.10.08 16:14:37 -
[93] - Quote
This will be my initial impressions of the new scanning interface because I literally did not understand how to access it during the first round of testing. (Oh ctrl-click THAT button. You mean people use that button?)
Although it's not the first thing I did, d-scan: Ummmmm.... I'm not sure you understand how we use dscan on the solar system map. We're not looking just to dscan celestials, we have to dscan completely arbitrary space away from celestials. Free dscan control is completely necessary for combat scanners, not just a radial menu option on celestials.
So, the very first thing I did was launch probes in a saved formation then open the map and.... where's my handle for the probes? This hasn't happened every time, but sometimes the handle's just absent. I'd bug report this but I'm having trouble reproducing it, it happened again at random but I can't do it on demand. It does however remind me of a feature request: please let us move probe handles for the next scan while doing the current scan.
Could you swap alt and ctrl? I don't think this is just consistency for users of the old system, alt is normally used for translation while ctrl is more normally used for resizing in other applications, so as well as being an unnecessary change I think it's generally confusing this way round. Also I feel like there's no need to grab such small handles for size steps when you have to hold a modifier (currently alt, hopefully ctrl) to perform the action. Why does it need to be fiddly if it's already unambiguous? For that matter, why does it need to be mouse based at all for size steps? It's not an analogue operation, if we have to use a modifier why not go the whole way and make it a keyboard shortcut for step up and step down? The handle size complaint is also applicable to controlling the spacing of the formation (currently ctrl, hopefully back to alt) to a lesser degree.
I'm not sure what the point of scan result strengths on fixed celestials is meant to be, it's clutter. On a related note, hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera (which incidentally feels sluggish for a reason I can't put my finger on, maybe just a low frame rate.)
This is probably something it's possible to get used to but the narrow scan strength bars under the results initially are processed as being BETWEEN results, making them ambiguous. I'm not sure what's wrong with the old system for this, which is unambiguous and intuitive.
Destroy probes feels poorly placed but there's a confirmation dialog so I'm not sure it's actually an issue.
On the bright side I like the new system for custom formation launching, one click for any formation is a vast improvement. This is something that has irked me for a long time about the current implementation but I didn't complain about because I wasn't sure how it could be done better, and I just lived with sometimes using the wrong formation because I misremembered which I used last. The list on hover is perfect.
The filter system... hmm. I like the concept but it has practicality issues. For casual use the predefined 5 sets with keyboard shorts are nice but when you use the keyboard shortcuts you can't see what you have selected. Since there are only 5 predefined sets, please add a row of icons in the header which you can grey out, there is plenty of room. Selecting a specific user filter requires toggling everything currently selected to off then selecting that filter, very slow, too much clicking, we need a fast way to deselect everything as a minimum. User defined shortcuts for filtering states would be nice. |
MuraSaki Siki
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
64
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Posted - 2015.10.08 16:26:16 -
[94] - Quote
just a quick check of the D-scan in New map.
i see the red cone would not move around as i move the camera, and i can only D-scan those celestial object, beacon instead off all direction. it seems to be what it stated "broken", hope it will be fix :D |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3412
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Posted - 2015.10.08 21:56:22 -
[95] - Quote
i just tested the latest version and was very impressed, amazing work.
here a few things which could be improved/or things i did not like - the new dscan window looks cool but you swapped angle with range and the descan button moved from right to left, please don't do that :P - the dscan visualization in the map is awesome but the fade-in makes it difficult to see where it is actually coming from ( http://i.imgur.com/3oTCYT6.png ) if you remove the fade in it would be easier to read
regarding the probes and the cube for interacting with them - the color coding is great and the trick where you block cube movement if the angle is to steep is also awesome. I actually wanted to write that down as a suggestion but after testing it i saw you already implemented it - great job
selecting things on the map while scanning - using the cube can be a bit annoying if many objects are close to it ( http://i.imgur.com/7DfvmuI.png ), have you tried to make it so that the cube would cover everything behind it and it would be impossible to select it while it is above it while zoomed out? To select something all a player would have to do is to zoom in or: give us a modifier key which when held down would only let us interact with the cube, not with the rest of the map.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Jack Miton
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
4708
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:01:29 -
[96] - Quote
Quote: We're not looking just to dscan celestials, we have to dscan completely arbitrary space away from celestials. Free dscan control is completely necessary for combat scanners, not just a radial menu option on celestials. ^quoting this for truth. this is not optional.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Johnny Splunk
EvE-Scout EvE-Scout Enclave
2
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:46:28 -
[97] - Quote
It's mentioned that these latest changes will be ready around 10/9. When will they be on SISI? |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
196
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Posted - 2015.10.09 00:53:15 -
[98] - Quote
Great work ccp. The latest changes are much much better.
- I like how the probe and sig strength information is now back in one window instead of duplicated across two windows. - the arrows and other indicators showing probe distance and movement are much appreciated. - the floating tool tips/icons on planets etc now look much cleaner. - direct link to solar system map on probe scanner window is great. - love how recall probe button is now far away from the scan button. - love the resizable solar system map. background of the map is cool and not distracting.
Room for improvement - as others have mentioned the white arrows that we use to move probes around are too small. (I play on 90% font). The resize probe arrows are also quite small. Please make them bigger. Also the probe result red dot (centre) is quite small. - Can you make the colour of windows have a transparency slider or reduce the areas of the probe scanner/ dscan windows that have colour. Because currently the colour is quite distracting. (depending on what overall ui colour scheme a player chooses) - scan button doesn't need its own separate colour. - Dscan cone needs to be repositionable to any area of space. not just celestial/probe results. As often before you do a combat probe scan you will use dscan to approximate a targets position before launching probes +other uses.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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RZN
The Maythorn
0
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Posted - 2015.10.09 00:56:25 -
[99] - Quote
Amazing work!
Would it be possible to add and remove headers from the scan result list?
I would really like to be able to sort results by Group or Type. This makes bookmarking much easier and reduces mistakes.
P.S. Unrelated but has been bugging me for a while. Is there any chance of you guys getting all these awesome threads linked in one place for those of us that do not reddit? I would think the update site would be the best place but i couldn't even find a link to the beta launcher on it .
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Lavayar
Russian SOBR Dream Fleet
233
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Posted - 2015.10.09 06:39:20 -
[100] - Quote
Awesome! |
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Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
2334
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Posted - 2015.10.09 07:13:54 -
[101] - Quote
RZN wrote:P.S. Unrelated but has been bugging me for a while. Is there any chance of you guys getting all these awesome threads linked in one place for those of us that do not reddit? I would think the update site would be the best place but i couldn't even find a link to the beta launcher on it .
Shameless plug (other releases available through the menus further up the page)
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
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Tilk Hendar
Mark Of The Wolves
1
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Posted - 2015.10.09 08:16:30 -
[102] - Quote
Hi,
I'm not sure it is the good place but i put it here.
Can you add a smaller but cool information is the number of combat anomalies and the number of cosmic signature and maybe number of ore anomalies cause each time we jump in a new wh we have to count line by line and it is so boring...
Thanks and sorry if it is not in good topic :).
Fly Unsafe.
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:03:37 -
[103] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:This will be my initial impressions of the new scanning interface because I literally did not understand how to access it during the first round of testing. (Oh ctrl-click THAT button. You mean people use that button?)
Although it's not the first thing I did, d-scan: Ummmmm.... I'm not sure you understand how we use dscan on the solar system map. We're not looking just to dscan celestials, we have to dscan completely arbitrary space away from celestials. Free dscan control is completely necessary for combat scanners, not just a radial menu option on celestials.
So, the very first thing I did was launch probes in a saved formation then open the map and.... where's my handle for the probes? This hasn't happened every time, but sometimes the handle's just absent. I'd bug report this but I'm having trouble reproducing it, it happened again at random but I can't do it on demand. It does however remind me of a feature request: please let us move probe handles for the next scan while doing the current scan.
Could you swap alt and ctrl? I don't think this is just consistency for users of the old system, alt is normally used for translation while ctrl is more normally used for resizing in other applications, so as well as being an unnecessary change I think it's generally confusing this way round. Also I feel like there's no need to grab such small handles for size steps when you have to hold a modifier (currently alt, hopefully ctrl) to perform the action. Why does it need to be fiddly if it's already unambiguous? For that matter, why does it need to be mouse based at all for size steps? It's not an analogue operation, if we have to use a modifier why not go the whole way and make it a keyboard shortcut for step up and step down? The handle size complaint is also applicable to controlling the spacing of the formation (currently ctrl, hopefully back to alt) to a lesser degree.
EDIT: Just noticed that those shortcuts are already in development. The complaint about the handle size still stands.
I'm not sure what the point of scan result strengths on fixed celestials is meant to be, it's clutter. On a related note, hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera (which incidentally feels sluggish for a reason I can't put my finger on, maybe just a low frame rate.)
This is probably something it's possible to get used to but the narrow scan strength bars under the results initially are processed as being BETWEEN results, making them ambiguous. I'm not sure what's wrong with the old system for this, which is unambiguous and intuitive.
Destroy probes feels poorly placed but there's a confirmation dialog so I'm not sure it's actually an issue.
On the bright side I like the new system for custom formation launching, one click for any formation is a vast improvement. This is something that has irked me for a long time about the current implementation but I didn't complain about because I wasn't sure how it could be done better, and I just lived with sometimes using the wrong formation because I misremembered which I used last. The list on hover is perfect.
The filter system... hmm. I like the concept but it has practicality issues. For casual use the predefined 5 sets with keyboard shorts are nice but when you use the keyboard shortcuts you can't see what you have selected. Since there are only 5 predefined sets, please add a row of icons in the header which you can grey out, there is plenty of room. Selecting a specific user filter requires toggling everything currently selected to off then selecting that filter, very slow, too much clicking, we need a fast way to deselect everything as a minimum. User defined shortcuts for filtering states would be nice.
Thanks for the post, lots of stuff in there. On the D-scan point, I thought I had explained clearly enough that D-scan is currently *not functional* in this iteration. It's not that we've changed how it's going to work, it's that in adding something to it we broke the other part :) It'll get fixed. The celestial direction radial menu option is a QoL bump, not a crazy new paradigm.
Setting up a new scan while performing one is out of the scope for our team, sorry. Handle size seems to be a hot button issue for a lot of people but no consensus comes from the discussion - some think it's egregiously large, some think it's too small. "hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera" - could you show me a picture or video of what you mean? I might just be uncaffeinated at the moment, but I'm having major problems trying to visualise that. Destroy probes got moved as a direct response to a lot of feedback, so it's probably going to stay there.
Using the keyboard shortcuts would be considered an advanced move, at which point we would assume you know what you're doing. I think the last thing the window needs is more information to care about all the time. The latter point on the user created filter is really nice though, will bring that up. Sounds like a defect actually.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:07:01 -
[104] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:i just tested the latest version and was very impressed, amazing work. here a few things which could be improved/or things i did not like - the new dscan window looks cool but you swapped angle with range and the descan button moved from right to left, please don't do that :P - the dscan visualization in the map is awesome but the fade-in makes it difficult to see where it is actually coming from ( http://i.imgur.com/3oTCYT6.png ) if you remove the fade in it would be easier to read regarding the probes and the cube for interacting with them - the color coding is great and the trick where you block cube movement if the angle is to steep is also awesome. I actually wanted to write that down as a suggestion but after testing it i saw you already implemented it - great job selecting things on the map while scanning - using the cube can be a bit annoying if many objects are close to it ( http://i.imgur.com/7DfvmuI.png ), have you tried to make it so that the cube would cover everything behind it and it would be impossible to select it while it is above it while zoomed out? To select something all a player would have to do is to zoom in or: give us a modifier key which when held down would only let us interact with the cube, not with the rest of the map.
Yeah the fade might be a little high at the start - will definitely bring this up with Colgate. The layering of the cube is something that quite a lot of people have mentioned - I'll also bring it up with Colgate and see if we can make some improvements here.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:07:47 -
[105] - Quote
Johnny Splunk wrote:It's mentioned that these latest changes will be ready around 10/9. When will they be on SISI?
That was only the last short list of changes, and it's been on Sisi since I made the post :)
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:10:29 -
[106] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:Great work ccp. The latest changes are much much better. - I like how the probe and sig strength information is now back in one window instead of duplicated across two windows. - the arrows and other indicators showing probe distance and movement are much appreciated. - the floating tool tips/icons on planets etc now look much cleaner. - direct link to solar system map on probe scanner window is great. - love how recall probe button is now far away from the scan button. - I like the ability to use the radial menu to focus dscan on a BM/sig/celestial etc. (but ability for random area of space dscan still needed - see below) - love the resizable solar system map. background of the map is cool and not distracting. Room for improvement- as others have mentioned the white arrows that we use to move probes around are too small. (I play on 90% font). The resize probe arrows are also quite small. Please make them bigger. Also the probe result red dot (centre) is quite small. - Can you make the colour of windows have a transparency slider or reduce the areas of the probe scanner/ dscan windows that have colour. Because currently the colour is quite distracting. (depending on what overall ui colour scheme a player chooses) - Scan button doesn't need its own separate colour. - Dscan cone needs to be repositionable to any area of space. not just celestial/probe results. As often before you do a combat probe scan you will use dscan to approximate a targets position before launching probes +other uses. - I do find the 'you are here' target crosshair icon wrongly positioned. Because when you zoom out the icon is not actually where you are. But could be several AU 'above' where your ship is located. Maybe replace crosshair icon with a small purple circle (transparent fill) that will show through even with a another icon on top of it. - ability to toggle on/off the red dscan cone / sphere would be nice. As some people HS explorers etc probably wont ever use dscan. (although they should )
Hey great call, we haven't actually been trying it out in UI scaling modes yet, so that's super interesting to hear! The D+¦scan is broken, as I mentioned above and in my OP, it's not changed, it just doesn't work. I don't really understand the Dscan toggle use case? It's only visible when the D-scan window is open.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:11:13 -
[107] - Quote
RZN wrote:Amazing work!
Would it be possible to add and remove headers from the scan result list?
I would really like to be able to sort results by Group or Type. This makes bookmarking much easier and reduces mistakes.
P.S. Unrelated but has been bugging me for a while. Is there any chance of you guys getting all these awesome threads linked in one place for those of us that do not reddit? I would think the update site would be the best place but i couldn't even find a link to the beta launcher on it .
As I explained in the imgur album, Group and Type aren't gone for good (well, one of them might be actually).
Not sure which "all these threads" you're referring to exactly?
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Johnny Splunk
EvE-Scout EvE-Scout Enclave
2
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:12:21 -
[108] - Quote
Testing on a Mac and the current version on Sisi does not have the center box for the probes.
See attached: http://imgur.com/Opt6Jlv
Edit: Looks like they are showing up now, but only after ctrl+probe scanner button. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:13:26 -
[109] - Quote
Tilk Hendar wrote:Hi,
I'm not sure it is the good place but i put it here.
Can you add a smaller but cool information is the number of combat anomalies and the number of cosmic signature and maybe number of ore anomalies cause each time we jump in a new wh we have to count line by line and it is so boring...
Thanks and sorry if it is not in good topic :).
Fly Unsafe.
That's quite a good idea actually... I wonder if we have the UI real estate for such a thing. How about, in case we don't have room, a "x selected" display in the bottom left, so if you select all the anomalies or whatever, it's like "9 selected".
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:14:11 -
[110] - Quote
Johnny Splunk wrote:Testing on a Mac and the current version on Sisi does not have the center box for the probes. See attached: http://imgur.com/Opt6Jlv
Is this 100% reproducible for you? IE recall probes, try again, and if that doesn't work relog, try again.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Johnny Splunk
EvE-Scout EvE-Scout Enclave
2
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:37:48 -
[111] - Quote
It appears to be a redraw issue. I tried what you suggested without a fix. I can reproduce this nearly 90% of the time. Toggling the SolarSystem map fails to show the probe controls. One time I saw them and then the probes animated in and then the controls vanished.
To reproduce:
1. Ctrl+Click Icon 2. Launch Probes 3. Open SolarSystem View
I can get them to show by doing the following:
- Pressing ctrl - Pressing alt
I can't get them to show by doing the following:
- Click Analyze button - Moving or resizing window - Panning or zooming SolarSystem - Changing SolarSystem filters - Changing Scan Results filters - Changing window docking
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2745
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:45:48 -
[112] - Quote
Johnny Splunk wrote:It appears to be a redraw issue. I tried what you suggested without a fix. I can reproduce this nearly 90% of the time. Toggling the SolarSystem map fails to show the probe controls. One time I saw them and then the probes animated in and then the controls vanished.
To reproduce:
1. Ctrl+Click Icon 2. Launch Probes 3. Open SolarSystem View
I can get them to show by doing the following:
- Pressing ctrl - Pressing alt
I can't get them to show by doing the following:
- Click Analyze button - Moving or resizing window - Panning or zooming SolarSystem - Changing SolarSystem filters - Changing Scan Results filters - Changing window docking
Great steps, thanks very much for the info :)
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Jack Miton
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
4708
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Posted - 2015.10.09 11:01:30 -
[113] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:Jack Miton wrote:This gets a 10/10, A++ and a huge fkn gold star for moving the recall probes button away from right next to the analyze button!!!! Actually functionality is aparently bad based on feedback from people I reasonably trust though (I don't do sisi myself) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5980634#post5980634 you're welcome :) As I've mentioned before, this has been a frequently raised complaint since 2009, but by all means, take your credit.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1460
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 12:55:06 -
[114] - Quote
Wait I want the credit
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC Bad Intention
1272
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 14:09:56 -
[115] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Quote: We're not looking just to dscan celestials, we have to dscan completely arbitrary space away from celestials. Free dscan control is completely necessary for combat scanners, not just a radial menu option on celestials. ^quoting this for truth. this is not optional. Also emphasizing, this is the single most important thing to me.
Edit: sorry just saw the post above. I'll wait until it's fixed to comment more.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Yusef Brion
Big Yellow Pidgeon Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 14:19:17 -
[116] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote: EDIT: Holy crap there is so much wrong...
A somewhat less important note:
From what I understand the motivation behind moving the probing and universe map to windows is for the ability to see the grid in the background. What if you invert it, and have the the grid be contained and rendered in a window of a fixed player defined size, whilst the solar and universe map are in the background? And make the zoom exponential. You can zoom out to max grid size, after a point there is no reason to keep zooming the grid, so it automatically toggles to system map with a grid window (which can be toggled on/off for scanning adjacent areas). And zooming further toggles universe map (sam way you have in old-new beta map, where the system/universe maps are homogenous). So the grid can still be seen as an oversized object in the solar map, and togglable on/off as the player may need. If the scan result is on grid then the sig shows up on the grid window too.
Re: edit Thank you for posting all the points I was thinking.
Re: suggestion
GREAT idea! When I am scanning I prefer the old map if only for the lower graphic requirements. Hitting F10 gives my graphics card a chance to breathe... |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
282
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 16:00:39 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Handle size seems to be a hot button issue for a lot of people but no consensus comes from the discussion - some think it's egregiously large, some think it's too small.
I'm only saying the handles when holding ctrl or alt are too small. Since you need a modifier for those to show up at all there's no reason for them to be small.
Quote: "hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera" - could you show me a picture or video of what you mean? I might just be uncaffeinated at the moment, but I'm having major problems trying to visualise that.
Um. I can't do a video. I made a little imgur album and in the process of making it realised what the little bars above brackets are: hidden brackets. Still, the effect is a lot of blinking icons.
Quote:Using the keyboard shortcuts would be considered an advanced move, at which point we would assume you know what you're doing. I think the last thing the window needs is more information to care about all the time.
Whether you know what you're doing or not you can't tell whether you have, for instance, just toggled anomalies on or off if there are none in system. The active filter is something you have to "care about all the time" whether it's visible or not as it affects the result list at all times, so having it visible would be strictly an improvement. I know that icons are a strain on the art department, maybe there are some that can be reused.
The sun and the faint nebulae annoy me more every time I open the map. You know what really says science fiction? An efficient visualisation with all necessary information and no distractions, something you can see people actually using. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1555
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 18:11:41 -
[118] - Quote
Just read about the hotkey for d-scan ... you realize that this is not a QoL change but a re-balancing?
Why?
As a hunter I'm relying to an extend on the prey's d-scan laziness or distraction by other activities. For example today I have to interrupt a hacking activity in order to move my mouse to the dscan button, with the hotkey I can just continue hacking while "automatically" pushing the d-scan key with my other hand every 2s. You remove a very important decision, do I continue my activity or should I interrupt to d-scan. With the introduction of a hotkey you make New Eden safer for the lazy ...IMO d-scan should remain an active manual "ping" and decision to do so with a tradeoff.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Yngvar ayShorn
Einheit X-6
493
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:03:57 -
[119] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Just read about the hotkey for d-scan ... you realize that this is not a QoL change but a re-balancing? Why? As a hunter I'm relying to an extend on the prey's d-scan laziness or distraction by other activities. For example today I have to interrupt a hacking activity in order to move my mouse to the dscan button, with the hotkey I can just continue hacking while "automatically" pushing the d-scan key with my other hand every 2s. You remove a very important decision, do I continue my activity or should I interrupt to d-scan. With the introduction of a hotkey you make New Eden safer for the lazy ...IMO d-scan should remain an active manual "ping" and decision to do so with a tradeoff.
Yep! That's also my opinion.
For your safty, you have to do something, have to work, not do be lazy with a hotkey.
D-Scan need do be a manual thing.
30 Tage EVE testen! -->> Klick mich <<--
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
282
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:38:50 -
[120] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:As a hunter I'm relying to an extend on the prey's d-scan laziness or distraction by other activities. For example today I have to interrupt a hacking activity in order to move my mouse to the dscan button, with the hotkey I can just continue hacking while "automatically" pushing the d-scan key with my other hand every 2s.
This is true and something I considered too, but moving your mouse to and pressing a button regularly is hardly good gameplay. Balance shouldn't rely on tedium and RSI, maybe more ships should get the d-scan immunity role bonus or probes should be removed from d-scan. |
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Viggo Konstanin
Midnight Rejects
52
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 21:54:19 -
[121] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Just read about the hotkey for d-scan ... you realize that this is not a QoL change but a re-balancing? Why? As a hunter I'm relying to an extend on the prey's d-scan laziness or distraction by other activities. For example today I have to interrupt a hacking activity in order to move my mouse to the dscan button, with the hotkey I can just continue hacking while "automatically" pushing the d-scan key with my other hand every 2s. You remove a very important decision, do I continue my activity or should I interrupt to d-scan. With the introduction of a hotkey you make New Eden safer for the lazy ...IMO d-scan should remain an active manual "ping" and decision to do so with a tradeoff.
I agree, and I am usually the guy scanning, not hunting.
It promotes poor gameplay and laziness.
The reward for getting the loot from the cans should derive from you being better than the hunter, not better than the trivial can maze.
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
834
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 03:33:58 -
[122] - Quote
The last build broke it. No way to move probes from inside the new map.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
159
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 03:43:06 -
[123] - Quote
as a person that has spent more hours scanning than id like to quantify, i appreciate both the devs and the community giving great feedback in this post. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
2817
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 05:28:47 -
[124] - Quote
hotkey for d-scan.
No one, and i mean absolutely no one, would abuse that with a key macro. Nope. No way at all would your Hulks and mackinaws auto warp if your d-scan or probe scan showed any change. Nosiree Bob.
Greenlight that change, Fozzie.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
204
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 07:42:25 -
[125] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:hotkey for d-scan.
No one, and i mean absolutely no one, would abuse that with a key macro. Nope. No way at all would your Hulks and mackinaws auto warp if your d-scan or probe scan showed any change. Nosiree Bob.
Greenlight that change, Fozzie.
I get ur point.
However I am sick of mashing dscan both in pve and pvp. Perhaps instead of the hotkey which will for sure be macroed we could have one click equals 30 seconds of DScan. Would stop the endless clicking but still ensure people have to click dscan regulary to get forewarning of unexpected visitors dropping in.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
204
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 07:51:32 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:
I don't really understand the Dscan toggle use case? It's only visible when the D-scan window is open.
I have solar system view open now and Im in the probe scan window. the DSCAN sphere is still showing. I do have both DSCAN and the Probe Scaner windows tabbed together the same as I do on tranquility. So even though DSCAN is not my 'active' tab maybe the game interprets it as being open.
My point is that with the DSCAN sphere and unscanned red sigs spheres both on screen it can get confusing which is which. Perhaps another colour for the DSCAN sphere and does it really need a fill when in 360 degree scan mode ?
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
125
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 11:40:03 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:"hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera" - could you show me a picture or video of what you mean? I might just be uncaffeinated at the moment, but I'm having major problems trying to visualise that. Destroy probes got moved as a direct response to a lot of feedback, so it's probably going to stay there.
Using the keyboard shortcuts would be considered an advanced move, at which point we would assume you know what you're doing. I think the last thing the window needs is more information to care about all the time. The latter point on the user created filter is really nice though, will bring that up. Sounds like a defect actually.
I think what he means is that, as you move the camera and different markers align with one another, they "snap" into or out of a stack of grouped markers, and the effect is kinda weird, like crickets jumping all over the map once you have enough signatures and anoms in system.
On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed.
It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window? |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
549
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 11:44:27 -
[128] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:[quote=CCP Goliath]On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed.
It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window?
Assuming I understand what you're saying, there are several instances you would want signatures separate from the map.
If you are in a wormhole system (or really any system), having that open allows you to monitor the opening and collapsing of wormholes.
If you are doing exploration, it is useful as you jump system to system to be able to quickly see if there are any signatures there or, if not, you can just move on quickly.
If you aren't using probes but just looking for anomalies, you can still use this interface without worrying about the probe window.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
204
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 13:25:46 -
[129] - Quote
]Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:[quote=CCP Goliath]On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed.
It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window?
haha cant please everyone.. I actually like how they removed the scan results from the new map window. makes the map window now nice and compact and you can have it in a corner of the screen.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
165
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 12:48:10 -
[130] - Quote
Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
The focus camera movement is very very fast.
I'm not very happy with the changes, doesn't feel like you're changing anything really. Just looks a bit different. |
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1774
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 07:25:25 -
[131] - Quote
SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
.
Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one.
Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea.
I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug?
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
207
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 08:42:12 -
[132] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
. Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one. Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea. I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug?
You can now use ur mouse scroll wheel to resize probes. So your hand is still free for 'other' things.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
400
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 10:22:02 -
[133] - Quote
I was testing a bit. Looks good. At least non combat probing. Thank you so much for moving recover button away from scan button, so many times I missclicked those. Probe window even stack with other windows! 1) So if we have solar system map on probe scanner window, will it be removed from beta star map? Then give beta map a proper change to intel. 2) Can we have an option to switch off planet orbits (or maybe there is but I can't find it)? When scanning I only need planets/gates. We would have clearer window with less lines on it.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2747
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:07:36 -
[134] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:"hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera" - could you show me a picture or video of what you mean? I might just be uncaffeinated at the moment, but I'm having major problems trying to visualise that. Destroy probes got moved as a direct response to a lot of feedback, so it's probably going to stay there.
Using the keyboard shortcuts would be considered an advanced move, at which point we would assume you know what you're doing. I think the last thing the window needs is more information to care about all the time. The latter point on the user created filter is really nice though, will bring that up. Sounds like a defect actually.
I think what he means is that, as you move the camera and different markers align with one another, they "snap" into or out of a stack of grouped markers, and the effect is kinda weird, like crickets jumping all over the map once you have enough signatures and anoms in system. On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed. It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window?
OK I think I get it now, thanks :)
RE: Map window - enough people felt strongly enough about the windows not being joined together (size concerns, mainly) that we decided to pull them apart. This change has been well enough received that we are likely going to stick with it.
Good point about the hotkey though - will discuss this with Colgate (likely solution off the top of my head - make that hotkey bindable and not only work when the window is active.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2747
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:10:15 -
[135] - Quote
SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
The focus camera movement is very very fast.
I'm not very happy with the changes, doesn't feel like you're changing anything really. Just looks a bit different.
Many people had issues with the "picking" of probes happening accidentally, so we put the modifier keys in. We are also putting in hotkeys for resizing probes on the fly (inc. key modified mousewheel), which is looking nice so far. Layering (move arrows having priority) is something we're taking a second swing at, since a lot of people seem dissatisfied with its current behaviour. Why is the focus camera being fast a problem?
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2747
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:12:36 -
[136] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
. Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one. Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea. I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug?
"Keep using the old scanner" won't be an indefinite solution - once we are happy with how this interface behaves and looks, the old system will be retired. If you can explain a little more why you have issues with a key modified system beyond "not a good idea", I would be happy to hear your concerns though.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2747
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:14:29 -
[137] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:I was testing a bit. Looks good. At least non combat probing. Thank you so much for moving recover button away from scan button, so many times I missclicked those. Probe window even stack with other windows! 1) So if we have solar system map on probe scanner window, will it be removed from beta star map? Then give beta map a proper change to intel. 2) Can we have an option to switch off planet orbits (or maybe there is but I can't find it)? When scanning I only need planets/gates. We would have clearer window with less lines on it.
1 - I believe so, but we haven't discussed it as a team yet 2 - You mean remove the lines? Hmm, it's not an option currently certainly. I can ask? Might not be possible though, or require too much technical implementation.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
400
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:54:02 -
[138] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:2 - You mean remove the lines? Hmm, it's not an option currently certainly. I can ask? Might not be possible though, or require too much technical implementation. Yes, the lines. It's just decoration at least for me. When scanning internal planets, UI tends to clutter.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
206
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Posted - 2015.10.12 11:57:21 -
[139] - Quote
Stupid question, but how to resize probes?
I assume you have to hold alt (why?), but nothing happens. Well, the cones appear, but I can't drag them. I can alt-shift and resize a single probe, but not all probes at once. |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
126
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 15:42:29 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: OK I think I get it now, thanks :)
RE: Map window - enough people felt strongly enough about the windows not being joined together (size concerns, mainly) that we decided to pull them apart. This change has been well enough received that we are likely going to stick with it.
Good point about the hotkey though - will discuss this with Colgate (likely solution off the top of my head - make that hotkey bindable and not only work when the window is active.
Thanks for the reply! I have noticed a lot of people seem to prefer having separate windows, so I guess whatever works is fine, I'm just stating my own preference.
Also a quick and dirty solution that comes to my mind for the map crickets is to refresh the groupings on button release rather than every frame, but that's likely to be me using a handaxe to cut a cupcake.
RE: Orbit lines. I'll throw in my two cents. They are indeed mostly decoration, but can serve to orient yourself sometimes, as well. The main problem is that with the old map, when you tilted the camera into the ecliptical plane to dscan a moon, the orbit line often ended up in your face, ie: pointing straight at the camera, so I guess that's where the request comes from. Maybe you could dim them when the camera is nearby?
RE: Controls for one-handed-scanning. Have you looked into mouse button combinations? For example, click and hold anywhere on the map to start rotating the view, as usual, then tap the secondary mouse button to initiate probe resize. Release all buttons to reset this sequence. Middle mouse button click to center on the cursor (or a celestial under it). This is similar to how some CAD programs work, CATIA in particular, and while it may sound complex at first, it seems just natural after the first thirty minutes.
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2748
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Posted - 2015.10.12 15:51:11 -
[141] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:CCP Goliath wrote: OK I think I get it now, thanks :)
RE: Map window - enough people felt strongly enough about the windows not being joined together (size concerns, mainly) that we decided to pull them apart. This change has been well enough received that we are likely going to stick with it.
Good point about the hotkey though - will discuss this with Colgate (likely solution off the top of my head - make that hotkey bindable and not only work when the window is active.
RE: Controls for one-handed-scanning. Have you looked into mouse button combinations? For example, click and hold anywhere on the map to start rotating the view, as usual, then tap the secondary mouse button to initiate probe resize. Release all buttons to reset this sequence. Middle mouse button click to center on the cursor (or a celestial under it). This is similar to how some CAD programs work, CATIA in particular, and while it may sound complex at first, it seems just natural after the first thirty minutes.
Feels like that wouldn't translate well to Mac at all.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
127
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Posted - 2015.10.12 15:56:33 -
[142] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: Feels like that wouldn't translate well to Mac at all.
Ah, right, I forgot about the minions of the Apple. Guess two buttons is still too complex for them |
Ben Ishikela
64
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 16:47:55 -
[143] - Quote
With the new Scanner Window, i was wondering. Can we please get a "center probe's formation on own ship's position"-button. Or is this a bad idea? I really dont know. Please consider.
Some implications: On grid probe&warp will be faster and easier. (But again: I have no Idea if this would be healthy for the game.) Systemwide probing unaffected. (unless offgridspot) Finding the signature name of the wormhole one just jumped through would be way faster. There is not really a choice of where to put the probes, when you want them on-grid.
If this request seems to be redundant. well. Search did not find anything similar.
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
400
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Posted - 2015.10.12 19:38:52 -
[144] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:RE: Orbit lines. I'll throw in my two cents. They are indeed mostly decoration, but can serve to orient yourself sometimes, as well. The main problem is that with the old map, when you tilted the camera into the ecliptical plane to dscan a moon, the orbit line often ended up in your face, ie: pointing straight at the camera, so I guess that's where the request comes from. Maybe you could dim them when the camera is nearby?
I was refering to non combat scanning. For combat orbit lines are must I presume.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1774
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Posted - 2015.10.13 07:20:48 -
[145] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
. Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one. Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea. I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug? "Keep using the old scanner" won't be an indefinite solution - once we are happy with how this interface behaves and looks, the old system will be retired. If you can explain a little more why you have issues with a key modified system beyond "not a good idea", I would be happy to hear your concerns though.
Ok Just to clarify, currently it is possible to scan single handed, using just the mouse. If it is an absolute requirement to use a second hand to engage a modifier, then It becomes quite unpleasant and impractical in many curumstances.
I hate to give personal examples, but I have recently been bedridden, and EvE has kept me going using a laptop beside the bed. I can currently scan whilst resting on my left arm and using the mouse with my right. If it requires two hands, I can only do this sitting up, and then I might as well be in the lounge (which is not possible) or wait a few days until I am stronger. I am certain that many will play the game in situations where they are not sitting in the ideal situation, on a dedicated, clear desk where the monitor and keyboard are directly in front of them, all the time.
Also I am sure people like to drink coffee, that needs a hand free :)
Changing an activity from one that utilises one hand to become two handed, is NOT a good improvement.
Please re-enable the ability to drag the probe circle to resize without having to press a modifier key, it is about the only good design feature worth keeping of the old scanner. Other than that the new scanner is looking really good.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Arla Sarain
671
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Posted - 2015.10.13 17:43:47 -
[146] - Quote
Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter. |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
165
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 06:55:56 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Many people had issues with the "picking" of probes happening accidentally, so we put the modifier keys in.
That post 2 before this one raises a very good point. Regardless, can you go all the way and map mod key + number to a scanrange if you go ahead with the mod keys?
CCP Goliath wrote:Why is the focus camera being fast a problem?
I'm kind of surprised I have to restate to you that good tweening feels better.
I find the old tweening very nice on the eyes, it also fits the pace of scanning a lot better. When you scan an entire wormhole you're looking at 10-20 minutes of looking the scanning screen, mostly spent watching the timer tick down and repositing and one of those is rather slow paced and the other would now be a very hectic affair.
Again, if you find this somehow improves the experience, go ahead, but it certainly makes scanning less pleasant to me. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2751
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Posted - 2015.10.14 09:05:19 -
[148] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:With the new Scanner Window, i was wondering. Can we please get a "center probe's formation on own ship's position"-button. Or is this a bad idea? I really dont know. Please consider.
Some implications: On grid probe&warp will be faster and easier. (But again: I have no Idea if this would be healthy for the game.) Systemwide probing unaffected. (unless offgridspot) Finding the signature name of the wormhole one just jumped through would be way faster. There is not really a choice of where to put the probes, when you want them on-grid.
If this request seems to be redundant. well. Search did not find anything similar.
I think this mars convenience with potential balancing so our team would prefer to stay clear of it.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2751
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Posted - 2015.10.14 09:15:00 -
[149] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
. Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one. Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea. I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug? "Keep using the old scanner" won't be an indefinite solution - once we are happy with how this interface behaves and looks, the old system will be retired. If you can explain a little more why you have issues with a key modified system beyond "not a good idea", I would be happy to hear your concerns though. Ok Just to clarify, currently it is possible to scan single handed, using just the mouse. If it is an absolute requirement to use a second hand to engage a modifier, then It becomes quite unpleasant and impractical in many circumstances. Having a modifier AVAILABLE is a nice idea, but not when there is no alternative. I hate to give personal examples, but I have recently been bedridden, and EvE has kept me going using a laptop beside the bed. I can currently scan whilst resting on my left arm and using the mouse with my right. If it requires two hands, I can only do this sitting up, and then I might as well be in the lounge (which is not possible) or wait a few days until I am stronger. Whilst I have not been able to fully participate, I can at least scan out the WH chain for the corp. I am certain that many will play the game in situations where they are not sitting in the ideal situation, on a dedicated, clear desk where the monitor and keyboard are directly in front of them, all the time. Also I am sure people like to drink coffee, or beer, and that needs a hand free :) Changing an activity from one that utilises one hand to become two handed, is NOT a good improvement. Scanning is a non twitch activity, whilst for combat, travel, ratting etc, two handed use is reasonable, as one is highly committed to the activity, when scanning for hours, requiring physical as well as mental commitment, is excessive. Please re-enable the ability to drag the probe circle to resize without having to press a modifier key, it is about the only good design feature worth keeping of the old scanner. Why remove it? I have never heard of anyone resizing the probe radius when trying to move the "square" issues there are usually, throwing the probes out a billion miles with the arrows when trying to click the "square" as the cube move arrows, sometimes Get in the way of the cube faces? Other than that the new scanner is looking really good. Ps trackpads on laptops, magic mice, etc etc, do not have a mouse wheel. And besides the mouse wheel controls zooming in and out, for scanning, that's important as you know. With a Key modified mousewheel, we are back to the same issue of requiring two hands. The question is do you decide to make scanning a compulsory two handed activity? Is this an improvement? Please consider this carefully as this changes the activity negatively for quite a number of situations, That doesn't seem like a good choice, as for some this will be the defining feature of the new scanner, and all the other good work is wasted, and the now unwanted scanner will appear to be forced on us rather than something to be welcomed. It would be such a shame for that to happen when there is so much to appreciate. Please consider this very carefully. Many thanks.
Hi,
Thanks for the detailed and reasoned feedback. So, the current working theory of the hotkeys is that they will ultimately be bindable to whatever you want. This means that if you want to remap to a mousebutton for instance, you would be able to do that and still keep scanning onehanded if you want to. That being said, that doesn't solve the problems you brought up with touchpads and general accessibility concerns that users may have. I'll take this back to the team and see what they say. You're quite correct though, with the old system picking was very easy and not an issue. Now that we've abstracted the window and made it resizeable however, the problem with picking was becoming more and more of an issue in our feedback.
Two minor tongue in cheek points of rebuttal - EVE isn't a "twitch" game in any part of itself really, and the most "twitchy" experience I've ever had myself in the game has been combat scanning, funnily enough! Also, if all y'all beer and coffee drinkers want to game like champs, you gotta get yourselves some of these:
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2751
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Posted - 2015.10.14 09:15:43 -
[150] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter.
I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Can you screenshot the interface you're talking about and post back please?
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2751
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Posted - 2015.10.14 09:21:54 -
[151] - Quote
SpaceSaft wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Many people had issues with the "picking" of probes happening accidentally, so we put the modifier keys in. That post 2 before this one raises a very good point. Regardless, can you go all the way and map mod key + number to a scanrange if you go ahead with the mod keys? CCP Goliath wrote:Why is the focus camera being fast a problem? I'm kind of surprised I have to restate to you that good tweening feels better. I find the old tweening very nice on the eyes, it also fits the pace of scanning a lot better. When you scan an entire wormhole you're looking at 10-20 minutes of looking the scanning screen, mostly spent watching the timer tick down and repositing and one of those is rather slow paced and the other would now be a very hectic affair. Again, if you find this somehow improves the experience, go ahead, but it certainly makes scanning less pleasant to me.
We want to make the keys remappable to your own convenience ideally. Don't off the top of my head see how numbers could intuitively be mapped to scanrange without having to display that information somewhere, thus adding more crowd to a crowded scene. The numbers I have issue with directly are those below 1 and greater than 10.
If you were kind of surprised at that, I strongly suggest you take a seat before you read my next sentence.
Before right now, I thought "tweening" was something people did about Bieber. Having now done some googling, I will pass it on to the team. I think your scanning use case is not neccesarily representative of the whole picture though - if I'm not just casually scanning a hole, e.g. I'm combat scanning or racing someone to a site, I need things to be fast ergo feel fast. Maybe it'll be a toggle we can put in (unlikely), or we can find a nice intermediate ground (preferable). I've still to do a really prolonged test (targeted at frustration, repetitiveness and any nausea inducers) and this may well become more of an issue over time.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Arla Sarain
671
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Posted - 2015.10.14 10:09:50 -
[152] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Can you screenshot the interface you're talking about and post back please? The CTRL+Click map that's outlined in this thread.
Whilst the movement speed is crisp, it isn't tight, there is quite a bit of jitter when moving.
Also interacting with the scanning box is tough with all the system celestials and warpables in the way - constantly end up selecting the celestials instead of the box. Locking the sphere resize behind the ALT button is a nuisance as well. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
560
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 11:39:57 -
[153] - Quote
When probes movement cube are in the same place (visually) with for example planets or bookmarks ir other visual indicators of map the cube is not accessible. Wheb you try to move it outside of clamped moon area you have to move camera around or try using different side of cube or use arrows on the cube to move it. Instead of moving probes you are selecting whatever object is on top . This is annoying.
Also can we have "center around" function for right clicking on object in map that would move probes to that location? For example right click on planet and using it would center formation around that planet.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1777
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Posted - 2015.10.14 14:06:57 -
[154] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
. Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one. Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea. I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug? "Keep using the old scanner" won't be an indefinite solution - once we are happy with how this interface behaves and looks, the old system will be retired. If you can explain a little more why you have issues with a key modified system beyond "not a good idea", I would be happy to hear your concerns though. Ok Just to clarify, currently it is possible to scan single handed, using just the mouse. If it is an absolute requirement to use a second hand to engage a modifier, then It becomes quite unpleasant and impractical in many circumstances. Having a modifier AVAILABLE is a nice idea, but not when there is no alternative. I hate to give personal examples, but I have recently been bedridden, and EvE has kept me going using a laptop beside the bed. I can currently scan whilst resting on my left arm and using the mouse with my right. If it requires two hands, I can only do this sitting up, and then I might as well be in the lounge (which is not possible) or wait a few days until I am stronger. Whilst I have not been able to fully participate, I can at least scan out the WH chain for the corp. I am certain that many will play the game in situations where they are not sitting in the ideal situation, on a dedicated, clear desk where the monitor and keyboard are directly in front of them, all the time. Also I am sure people like to drink coffee, or beer, and that needs a hand free :) Changing an activity from one that utilises one hand to become two handed, is NOT a good improvement. Scanning is a non twitch activity, whilst for combat, travel, ratting etc, two handed use is reasonable, as one is highly committed to the activity, when scanning for hours, requiring physical as well as mental commitment, is excessive. Please re-enable the ability to drag the probe circle to resize without having to press a modifier key, it is about the only good design feature worth keeping of the old scanner. Why remove it? I have never heard of anyone resizing the probe radius when trying to move the "square" issues there are usually, throwing the probes out a billion miles with the arrows when trying to click the "square" as the cube move arrows, sometimes Get in the way of the cube faces? Other than that the new scanner is looking really good. Ps trackpads on laptops, magic mice, etc etc, do not have a mouse wheel. And besides the mouse wheel controls zooming in and out, for scanning, that's important as you know. With a Key modified mousewheel, we are back to the same issue of requiring two hands. The question is do you decide to make scanning a compulsory two handed activity? Is this an improvement? Please consider this carefully as this changes the activity negatively for quite a number of situations, That doesn't seem like a good choice, as for some this will be the defining feature of the new scanner, and all the other good work is wasted, and the now unwanted scanner will appear to be forced on us rather than something to be welcomed. It would be such a shame for that to happen when there is so much to appreciate. Please consider this very carefully. Many thanks. Hi, Thanks for the detailed and reasoned feedback. So, the current working theory of the hotkeys is that they will ultimately be bindable to whatever you want. This means that if you want to remap to a mousebutton for instance, you would be able to do that and still keep scanning onehanded if you want to. That being said, that doesn't solve the problems you brought up with touchpads and general accessibility concerns that users may have. I'll take this back to the team and see what they say. You're quite correct though, with the old system picking was very easy and not an issue. Now that we've abstracted the window and made it resizeable however, the problem with picking was becoming more and more of an issue in our feedback. Two minor tongue in cheek points of rebuttal - EVE isn't a "twitch" game in any part of itself really, and the most "twitchy" experience I've ever had myself in the game has been combat scanning, funnily enough! Also, if all y'all beer and coffee drinkers want to game like champs, you gotta get yourselves some of these: [img]http://revolutionandbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/344592d1336775424-beer-carrying-spitfires-world-war-ii-1373436-beerhat_large.jpg[/img]
Thank you very much, your response reassures me that it is really worth giving feedback. I hope that you have a good discussion with the team. And back to the humourous side, I bet it was the Beer comment that really struck home :)
Keep up the great work.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 14:16:45 -
[155] - Quote
Are you sure that people were actually complaining about selecting the probes accidentally? The only complaint I've ever had or heard along those lines is selecting things which are not the probes accidentlaly. Generally when your probes are out, the majority of your clicks are in the solar system map are either camera movement or probe movement. |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
165
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Posted - 2015.10.14 16:05:46 -
[156] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: We want to make the keys remappable to your own convenience ideally. Don't off the top of my head see how numbers could intuitively be mapped to scanrange without having to display that information somewhere, thus adding more crowd to a crowded scene. The numbers I have issue with directly are those below 1 and greater than 10.
Scan range is 2 to the power of a number between -2 and 5 for core and -1 and 6 for combat probes. That translates very well to a scale from 1 to 10 corresponding to all scan ranges. (1 -> 0.25 AU , 2 -> 0.5 AU , ... , 9 -> 32 AU, 10 -> 64 AU ).
I think alt is a good mod key, many programs use alt as mod key.
Regarding combat scanning and speed - I don't think the gameplay is that fast, I might be wrong because i'm not doing it very much but I don't think the whole "wait until the timer finished" is very conductive to fast gameplay. I'm sure the CSM or other people here can comment on whether they ever felt the combat scan refocus was too slow.
They too will appreciate the keyboard controls if they're serious about it though. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2751
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:02:23 -
[157] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Can you screenshot the interface you're talking about and post back please? The CTRL+Click map that's outlined in this thread. Whilst the movement speed is crisp, it isn't tight, there is quite a bit of jitter when moving. Also interacting with the scanning box is tough with all the system celestials and warpables in the way - constantly end up selecting the celestials instead of the box. Locking the sphere resize behind the ALT button is a nuisance as well.
Have you tried filtering objects you don't care about out of the map? Using the filters in the top left corner.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 17:09:33 -
[158] - Quote
He probably does care about those objects, just not enough to let them make him unable to move his probes. |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
129
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:54:23 -
[159] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: Have you tried filtering objects you don't care about out of the map? Using the filters in the top left corner.
The issue lies in that the most needed objects are the most plentiful as well. When you're dscanning you want anoms and moons amogn other things, so that's where most of the clutter comes from. You can afford to turn some more stuff off when using probes, but then you'll want to turn them back on after every scan to see where does the warpable sig lie.
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Arla Sarain
677
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Posted - 2015.10.18 20:25:45 -
[160] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Option for the old map needs to stay. New map still has loads of clutter. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. Can you screenshot the interface you're talking about and post back please? The CTRL+Click map that's outlined in this thread. Whilst the movement speed is crisp, it isn't tight, there is quite a bit of jitter when moving. Also interacting with the scanning box is tough with all the system celestials and warpables in the way - constantly end up selecting the celestials instead of the box. Locking the sphere resize behind the ALT button is a nuisance as well. Have you tried filtering objects you don't care about out of the map? Using the filters in the top left corner. I do not recall tampering with the filter options in the old (F10) map. I'm not even sure it has them. I do not expect to have to use them either - it is only naturally intuitive that it behaves almost exactly as the old one.
It is difficult to compare now, since on SISI the F10 map no longer has the scanning cube (just tried it 2 minutes ago).
My only guess is that the awkwardness comes with the sphere of influence (hitbox, best I can describe) of the celestial and anomaly/signature brackets in the new map: they are too large, making them sensitive to any cursor pass/swipe. This is especially awkward now that signatures have their own "dot" bracket (which they didn't have in the old map). The dot coincides with the center of the sig sphere, and when you drag the cube onto the center (best positioning guess for initial scan), it consistently overlaps with the "dot" bracket. The sphere of influence of the sig dot bracket is about the size of the scan cube. Because of this, the area of the cube sides are difficult to grab with the sig "dot" bracket in the way.
Hence, if you insist on keep on the signature "dot" brackets, I suggest you introduce some kind of priority for the cursor - if the cube is surrounded by the celestial brackets, when hovering the cursor of the blob of celestials and the cube, the priority will be given to grabbing the cube first.
P.S. The group column (thanks for adding it) cannot be changed in width size in the new probe window when it's anchored along with the D-scan window. All the rest of the columns cannot be reduced beyond some point (I assume the same size as the shortest entry, i.e. the name column cannot be reduced below the size of "Cosmic Signature")
P.S.S. Can you not give us a tickbox for the starfield...?
P.S.S.S. Wheel mouse for probe size is pretty nifty, but the previous drag to stretch had visual feedback, as in you could correlate the direction of the size change with the direction you drag them in. The mouse wheel thingy keeps me testing it out every time, just find out the direction. |
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
227
|
Posted - 2015.10.22 06:16:53 -
[161] - Quote
Can the red dscan cone / sphere be reduced in brightness / made more subtle.
Its very distracting when probing (obscures the sigs ur trying to scan) and also when ur traveling through system dscaning. The red is to bright and busy.
I have my probe window and my dscan window in tabs and have the solar system map open (in a corner) all the time. The sphere is constantly present even though it is only ment to be active when the dscan window is open. The sphere is still displayed active when i have the probe scan window open.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Soltys
33
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Posted - 2015.10.28 01:51:52 -
[162] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:SpaceSaft wrote:Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.
The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?
Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.
The focus camera movement is very very fast.
I'm not very happy with the changes, doesn't feel like you're changing anything really. Just looks a bit different. Many people had issues with the "picking" of probes happening accidentally, so we put the modifier keys in. We are also putting in hotkeys for resizing probes on the fly (inc. key modified mousewheel), which is looking nice so far. Layering (move arrows having priority) is something we're taking a second swing at, since a lot of people seem dissatisfied with its current behaviour. Why is the focus camera being fast a problem?
I have jumped on sisi and checked it out and this is amazing change. I can't count how many times I grabbed sphere when trying to rotate / whatever else on TQ. For those that prefer current version, just add checkbox/option to enable/disable it.
Key modified wheel works great as well.
Stuff I noticed:
- when using new dscan ui, the direction is stuck (ignores camera); angles and range refresh fine
- new probe map reacts visually (but not functionally) to all key modifiers even if EvE doesn't have application focus (I realized it when I put probe map on the 2nd monitor and started typing this post). Why the need for system wide shortcuts ? This is really distracting both in-game when probe/dscan map doesn't have focus and outside the game when EvE is in background.
What I would change:
- swap 'ctrl' and 'alt' roles - so 'alt' retains current functionality of changing probes' position against their center (without range change) and 'ctrl' supports range-only resizes ; this is just a nitpick, but people are used to current alt functionality - so unless there is a good reason, no need to move it to 'ctrl'
- make probe/dscan map react to ctrl/alt/shift press only if probe map has the focus
- as mentioned above, add checkbox to enable sphere-grab resizing for those that prefer it
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Arla Sarain
696
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 13:03:03 -
[163] - Quote
Borked F10 map made it to TQ. |
GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
199
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 14:03:00 -
[164] - Quote
UGGHHHHH Is it me or is scanning not working in the old map?
The new map is nice, but i cant re centre my camera on top of what im trying to scan, if the systems big I cant zoom in correctly. Also how do i turn off the noise of my dscan range from the map window? |
Arla Sarain
696
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 14:18:50 -
[165] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:UGGHHHHH Is it me or is scanning not working in the old map?
The new map is nice, but i cant re centre my camera on top of what im trying to scan, if the systems big I cant zoom in correctly. Also how do i turn off the noise of my dscan range from the map window? Old map isn't working.
Disable D-SCAN lock at the top of the new solar system window. Looks like a Wi-Fi icon. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
215
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Posted - 2015.11.03 14:40:20 -
[166] - Quote
Well, the new scanner is a bit getting used to. But i think i found a bug. After jumping in a new system, the "you are here" tag seems to stick to the sun and stays there where ever i go.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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Peonza Chan
Gloryhole Initiative Que os den forsaken
19
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Posted - 2015.11.03 16:48:40 -
[167] - Quote
I'll keep using old map because: a) signature's dot so small b) celestial hitboxes interfering too much with probe hitbox c) dscan sphere same color as signatures d ship controls hiding behind map e) 2 maps for the solar system
other minor issues: f) moving camera is easy with old, new map move/rotate is awful g) black background clearer than star background
only one suggestion about camera tracking related with dscan: enable camera tracking while hitting bookmarks in people&places |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
600
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 17:25:34 -
[168] - Quote
Peonza Chan wrote: only one suggestion about camera tracking related with dscan: enable camera tracking while hitting bookmarks in people&places
This would be fantastic.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Sleepaz Den
Artificial Memories
7
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Posted - 2015.11.03 18:25:04 -
[169] - Quote
want to buy: Diablo-style'd map
And hold *button* or whatnot to interact with map, release *button* to have map fade into background again.
Cause the current *new* map is terrible beyond explanation. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
302
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Posted - 2015.11.03 18:33:04 -
[170] - Quote
So overlay on space? That's a very reasonable idea, much better than the pointless background in a window.
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Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
68
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Posted - 2015.11.03 19:01:33 -
[171] - Quote
The scan filters are now cumulative - so rather than easily switching between different custom filters - the user is forced to select the new filter and then deselect the old one.
Given that it is possible to create custom filters, I'd have thought it would make more sense to retain the previous modal functionality. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
215
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Posted - 2015.11.03 19:38:56 -
[172] - Quote
Is there an option to remove the d-scan red on the map ? It is in the way when scanning, i still want to see things on the d-scan list though, just an option to not see the d-scan area when scanning.(turn on /off switch)
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
215
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Posted - 2015.11.03 19:58:55 -
[173] - Quote
An other bug: Half of the time the bookmarks of the system you were in before you jumped are still in the system-map window of the new system.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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Sleepaz Den
Artificial Memories
9
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Posted - 2015.11.03 20:20:57 -
[174] - Quote
I currently got two accounts running, one uses the old layout for scan windows, the other uses the modern one. NBD. You can even have both at once, atleast until you relog. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
493
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Posted - 2015.11.03 20:28:07 -
[175] - Quote
Peonza Chan wrote: a) signature's dot so small b) celestial hitboxes interfering too much with probe hitbox c) dscan sphere same color as signatures d ship controls hiding behind map e) 2 maps for the solar system
This, also can we turn off d-scan sphere? Did few scans, it's good in general, it will take some time to learn alt+mouse wheel but when learned it will be faster than old system.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
87
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Posted - 2015.11.03 20:42:49 -
[176] - Quote
Thanks for taking the time to respond to player concerns in this thread.
Two quick points:
- When combat d-scanning with anomalies shown, if you then zoom in -- the anomalies gradually fade away and then disappear. This is kinda problematic if zoom in to differentiate between two close anoms.
- The "Align with camera" option is awesome, however the number of red circles is a little overkill. Could we have the option to reduce this to maybe 1 or 2 with a red dot showing the center of the view?
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Devian Chase
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
8
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Posted - 2015.11.03 20:50:01 -
[177] - Quote
i kinda dscan a lot i mostly use dscan from map mode , point my camera towards stuff reduce the angle , zoom in a little and find stuff to shoot
i'm gonna be honest i dislike the half map mode , while the cone looks nice you will be faster and more accurate just using the full map mode
the bad things about the full map mode 1 in full map mode if you zoom in on your ship , the green dots and other stuff you are aiming your camera at fade out and disapear to fast . 2 All the red lines when you dont use the cone feature ( its a sphere then) clutter up the map its like 30 lines all over the place ( picture those lines with 7-9 scannable sites ( red spheres ) ) A single thick White ( any other color would do )outline would suffice to show scanning range and keep things neat and clear. 3 lacking ship controlls in full map mode
good things about the full map mode 1 the pin markers that show whats covert under your current dscan angle 2 dscan button bind
I would very much like to have the option to bind a increase / decrease in angle |
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1226
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Posted - 2015.11.03 23:47:15 -
[178] - Quote
Hud and mods needs to show on full screen map mode.
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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Beness
Vojtech Fekete
21
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Posted - 2015.11.04 01:43:32 -
[179] - Quote
Feedback! Yay!
When moving probes, the red highlight that seems to indicate "you're able to move probes" is misleading.
In the case that I get the red highlight and then the mouse wanders over a marker (like, for the probe), the visual feedback continues to indicate that I should be able to move the probes. However, the drag interaction focus is captured by the marker.
The red highlight should only exist when I'm actually able to move probes. |
Olmeca Blanco
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.11.04 14:36:41 -
[180] - Quote
[CCPlease] Faster Way to Refresh the Anomaly Distances on Probe Scanner
Refreshing the anomaly distances on probe scanning is essential for many reasons, especially for nullsec hunters.
When a hunter jumps in a system and there are no anomalies around the in gate, he warps to the center of the system to dscan for targets. After the warp he needs to refresh the anomaly distance, so when he figures how far the target is away from him, he will know which anomaly he is in.
In the old probing window you could refresh anomaly distance by double clicking "show all".
In the new window you need to click the filter menu, deselect a filter and select it again. 3 clicks on 2 different and very small areas. I believe this is a detail that lowers the quality of life for hunters.
I suggest the distance to be refreshed when we drop the scan results down and up again by clicking the bar. Or a refresh button, but that would perhaps complicate the window unnecessarily for others. |
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1289
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Posted - 2015.11.04 16:40:35 -
[181] - Quote
I used the old map religiously for Dscan and finding targets. Here's my thoughts on the new one (Parallax update).
I would love a way to toggle off the dscan cone visual. It's great for new players to conceptualize how dscan works, but for people who scan every day it really doesn't add any extra information. When you synch the dscan with the camera (the only proper way to dscan using the map) it doesn't look like a cone so you just have a large filled in circle obscuring whatever you are trying to target. Not only that, but if your target is closer than the max dscan range, the circle actually encompasses things which you can't hit. Often when using dscan to find targets the fastest way is to leave your range at 14.3 AU and do a narrow scan on each target of interest. Now I have this big red circle surrounding all kinds of things that aren't actually in my scan - just not helpful.
When the dscan is locked to the camera view you can't center your view on anything else but your ship. That's very painful. Generally I will find a target at a cluster of stuff, warp closer to get a better angle, and do another scan. With the old map I could double click on my warpin and start lining up my next scan while travelling. Now I have to wait until my ship has accelerated/warped/decelerated before I can even start lining up my next scan. Those seconds really matter when you're hunting a moving target.
A bug I think - when I use a hotkey (default F9) to bring up the solar system map (in fullscreen mode) the focus becomes locked on the map and won't let me click any other windows (to manipulate dscan sliders, interact with overview, etc.) Instead I just end up rotating the map view. This did not happen when using the map icon in the scan window, just with the hotkey (which I rebound and did not try using the default F9).
There's no HUD in the fullscreen map view! That's absolutely awful. Scanning/combat dscanning goes hand in hand with operating modules (cloak, heating your point, prepping for tackle, etc.) I found the windowed view very awkward so I would like this functionality in fullscreen mode.
Like many people I keep my dscan and probe scan tabs in the same window. After the update the default seems to be the probe scan tab and it switches to that every session change which is very annoying because dscan is much more important.
This isn't new but it always bugged me that the AU distance in the probe scan window never properly updated for anomalies/signatures while warping around the system.
I had a rough time finding stations/gates while dscanning with the map even if I already knew where they were. They weren't very obvious in the map view. (Though I just remembered I forgot to look through the filters so if that solves the problem I will retract this statement).
All-in-all I think it has the potential to be pretty good once the kinks are worked out. I like the new dscan hotkey and once the map view hotkey is working it will be nice and quick to enter mapview and scan down a target. Thanks for your hard work and for listening to all the feedback in this thread. Dscan is so important to us. We all appreciate it.
Adventures
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Titan's Lament
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
303
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Posted - 2015.11.04 17:47:16 -
[182] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote: I would love a way to toggle off the dscan cone visual. It's great for new players to conceptualize how dscan works, but for people who scan every day it really doesn't add any extra information. When you synch the dscan with the camera (the only proper way to dscan using the map)
You may want to rethink that being the only way, the dscan cone is in fact incredibly useful for combat scanning and the people who have started using it are scanning down safed ships faster than ever before. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
2806
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Posted - 2015.11.04 17:50:12 -
[183] - Quote
Locking this thread. Please use https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6146374#post6146374 for comments on scanning now.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
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