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Buxaroo Constructive Influence	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:52:00 - [331] Edited by: Buxaroo on 21/12/2006 14:53:23 Originally by: Gragnor Originally by: Evil Thug If target of propaganda read all bob posts, and start to feel uncomfortable - mission of forum ***s completed. Its just another way of demoralise your opponent, and raise morale of your own troops. As for ascn - bob made leaders of ascn target of propaganda. Every post on internal forums = quoted, and laughed at. Every teamspeak speech - recorded, and again "look at this funny guy, he is lying to his own members". Now, without leader, ascn = headless. I spent loads of time reading ascn boards (who dont ? ), and it seems that Virtuozzo is right man to rule this alliance. Unfortunately it seems that there will be loads of "who are you ? you are not cyvok, so i`ll wont execute everything you said", and they will crumble. It is actually funny for those who is able to analyze, and dont go into "forum says that XYZ is bad" QFT The attacks on the HC of ASCN were devastating to the broader community's perception of the leadership. They were part of a venomous and targetted campaign of terror directed at the HC of ASCN. I have had nothing to do with ASCN and wish them no harm - but the post I thought most devastating to morale was hearing how the ASCN diplomat was ganked mining while the rest of the fleet was being annihilated 10 odd jumps away. Then, to make the point even more apparent, the diplomat was replaced a few days later, leaving the impression that this was in direct response to the BOB propaganda. BOOM. BOB made its point, the HC had reinforced it and the chasm between the leadership and the front line troops was made wider. An absolutely beautiful piece of propaganda that undermined the credibility of ASCN's leadership and MUST have had an impact on their morale. All those who believe that forum whoring has no impact on game play only have to perceive what happened the same way I did to understand that BOB has played the propaganda card magnificently and used it to increase the pressure on the ASCN leadership. Very clever game play, even if some think it was a bit of dirty pool. And does anyone NOT think that Cyvok's resignation was in some part attributable to the pressure he must have felt from the BOB propaganda? Exactly. It's not necessarily BoB's propaganda that has resulted in ASCN's mistakes and failures. All BoB had to do was accentuate and point out ASCN's inherent failures and mistakes. And to make matters worse what does ASCN do in response to all the problems: blame others and become even more rigid. If ASCN were strong and didn't have so many weaknesses, they would have lasted longer and put up a better fight from the get go. All BoB had to do was just let ASCN do even more screwed things like self-destructing a dreadnaught and of course CYVOK's logging off with aggro timer still counting down for BoB to come in with the finishing blow. Stop blaming others for your stupidity and close-minded ways. BoB takes advantage of ASCN's weakness and then everyone blames BoB for doing what they would do if they were in same position? War is a ***, live with it. Or don't.
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:25:00 - [332] Originally by: Rift Scorn Originally by: Christopher Multsanti The original point was that BOB gives respect to the enemies they have fought, the last enemy they gave respect to was fix. Then Molle made the statement I quoted above in the famous "there is no spoon" thread and started its campaign agaisnt FA. Since then I have never seen molle or any BOB leader give respect to anyone they have fought. Every post from a bob leader is propoganda to drive down the morale of their enemy. That is how they have changed. With all due respect, you have absolutley no idea who we have and/or haven't talked to. Who we give props to and who we don't. You read what you want to and think you know everything about BoB from the small percentage of posts you see on teh forum and nothing in-game. I could by the very same standard say 'E-R couldn't hac it in player owned 0.0, and after promising to fight for geminate, they couldn't and left on some excuse of a 0.0 tour and standings re-set where they didn't actually have a standings re-set cos they ended up throwing the T2 NAP gun at the biggest alliance in the North and other well known PvP corps that might actually give them a good fight'. Cos thats all i've seen from E-R recently on here. Truth of the matter is there's probabley a lot more to it than that. So give it a break trying to talk with authority about who we do and don't give respect to. Cos there's a lot more to it than what you read here, and the assumptions you make that you seem to think are written in stone fact. You make a very good point. EVIL SYNNs > Bob are the best, we have to pay them to use the plexs... EVIL SYNNs > we fall at their knees to stay here... so we're their *****es!
Tam Chi Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 00:51:00 - [333] Good read. I stopped after the 2nd post. GJ all o/ oh and GG 3 Alliance Tourny's and 1 Titan - BOB Radio WWW.1337.FM
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.22 02:15:00 - [334] Quote: I have had nothing to do with ASCN and wish them no harm - but the post I thought most devastating to morale was hearing how the ASCN diplomat was ganked mining while the rest of the fleet was being annihilated 10 odd jumps away. Without linking to a killboard, or killmail. go to the loss on 10/09/06 on the BoB or ASCN killboard and show me how you can mine with 150mm railguns in a Destroyer. That's on BoB's killboard, not ours. The whole "mining while everyone was fighting" thing was made up by somebody who thought it sounded better. SJ was actually leading a gang that was trying to fight off their interceptor gang. Quote: Then, to make the point even more apparent, the diplomat was replaced a few days later, leaving the impression that this was in direct response to the BOB propaganda. Actually, if you check titles, I'm his assistant. SJ handles all standings requests, I just forward them on and act as an intermediary. I also work as spokesman as SJ tends to lean toward the abrasive side sometimes. Quote: BOOM. The noise you just heard was everyone falling over as the weight of BoB posts in this thread took it over the precipice. Quote: BOB made its point, I don't think they actually spun it that way, they tried to say he was NPCing or something. Quote: the HC had reinforced it and the chasm between the leadership and the front line troops was made wider. We all thought it was pretty silly, to be honest. We just looked at the killboard, and talked to the gang that was actually forming down there, and shrugged. Was all kind of dumb, to be honest. Quote: An absolutely beautiful piece of propaganda that undermined the credibility of ASCN's leadership and MUST have had an impact on their morale. Not really, no. Quote: All those who believe that forum whoring has no impact on game play only have to perceive what happened the same way I did to understand that BOB has played the propaganda card magnificently and used it to increase the pressure on the ASCN leadership. Very clever game play, even if some think it was a bit of dirty pool. I think it has an impact on gameplay, although not really where I'd like this game to go someday. BoB states time and time again that "anything goes" when it comes to winning in 0.0- Be that local smacking, forum spying, Forum propaganda, TS Spying, Offlining POS networks, etc. etc. That's fine if they want to do that. Not my thing. I think every time I see another three word title BoB post here in the forum I pay attention less. If they're having fun with that, then by all means, they paid their $15 and it's not against the rules. Boo-hooing about it won't change it. I just think that if the best this game has to offer as the "Best in Game" is BoB, then we sure did go down a wrong road somewhere. Everyone on the sidelines, we should be your wakeup call. Regardless if you lift a finger or not, better start training your fleets now. Check your recruiting practices. Make it a pain in the ass to get on your comms and forums. Get your POS roles situated. It's a very painful thing to see what you've worked so hard for chipped away bit by bit. Don't mistake this for an acquiesce, the core of this alliance will fight for every gate, moon, POS, Outpost and rock. I hope this lasts for two years so you can truly experience tedium. Quote: And does anyone NOT think that Cyvok's resignation was in some part attributable to the pressure he must have felt from the BOB crap? Of course, I believe it did, a little. The man spends a great deal of his life living under an honor code, tries to carry that into an online game, and has it challenged on quite a regular basis. I think losing the Titan, then having his petition denied was just the last straw for someone that just couldn't bear to see the things he had built dying. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 02:41:00 - [335] Edited by: Blacklight on 22/12/2006 02:42:15 Originally by: Gungankllr I just think that if the best this game has to offer as the "Best in Game" is BoB, then we sure did go down a wrong road somewhere. I can't let this slide without a comment. Do you not think given the nature of the game (and the fact that MMO's in general tend to polarise this way) lends itself to having for want of a better phrase "forces of good and forces of evil"? Don't you think that given the description on the box and CCP's intention to allow all types of gameplay that having a group like BoB (regardless of whether that group was successful or not) was inevitable? I believe the answer to both those questions is yes. Yes the game and the nature of MMO's lends itself to a polarisation of a significant portion of the playerbase towards either "good" or "evil". Yes we should expect very aggressive and ruthless play styles given the nature of Eve and the way the Devs have envisaged the game should be played. So how, given the above, do you arrive at the conclusion that we have taken a wrong turn just because the "bad guys" (again for want of better terminology) happen to be on top at the moment? If BoB falls in a month, for argument's sake, and Eve goes through a period where the dominant force is one with a largely "good" playing style would that be the right way for the game to progress? What would make that the 'right' way? Frankly that statement of yours is just utter drivel Gungankllr. The only people who have gone down a wrong road somewhere are those that failed to understand the way the game is designed to work and assumed they could play sim-city in space when this is a PvP game where might makes right. If 'the good guys' want to triumph then they should get their house in order and not whine about the fact that for some nebulous unfounded reason it is 'wrong' that more aggressive and ruthless people are enjoying greater success than they are. I could go on about this whole polarisation of attitude in MMO's between 'good' and 'evil' and the fact that Eve is one of the first MMO's to provide an environment where that polarisation is less and less relevant, despite the playerbase en-masse's tendency to fall into such easily defined pigeonholes. The fact is that ASCN's play style was no more 'right' and BoB's is no more 'wrong' than any other, just because you're getting your arses kicked doesn't mean that the game and community have taken the wrong path somewhere along the way - it simply means that you need a new strategy in order to be more successful. The 'right road' in Eve is simply a matter of perception and your perception is no more valid than anyone elses - herein lies the greatness of Eve. Blog
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.22 02:54:00 - [336] Originally by: Blacklight The 'right road' in Eve is simply a matter of perception and your perception is no more valid than anyone elses - herein lies the greatness of Eve. I couldn't agree with you more. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Roland 99 Minmatar Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.22 03:07:00 - [337] I dont like either one of you BoB for obvious reasons ACSN for having VI and LV at +10 I was kinda hoping you would both lose _______
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.22 03:40:00 - [338] To retort: I think Eve is an interesting microcosm of humanity, to say the least. A group of persons can be either white knights or black knights, or both. Sometimes on the same day. It is this freedom that I believe is one of Eve's greatest treasures, and one of its biggest anchors. I'll get back to that in a moment. As to the formation of a group like BoB, history in MMORPG's shows that groups of elite players ALWAYS band together, to form elite groups. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it's actually good for gaming, to get people of like skills and abilities in the same arena and to give others something to strive for. Getting back to the topic of freedom. Every one of us has the freedom to say or think what we want within certain parameters. I've covered these points many times before, but they complete the core of my argument, so I feel I must present them yet again. I believe that Eve would not be remotely as good of a PVP game if it wasn't coupled with a type of voice communication such as Teamspeak or Ventrillo. It's an out of game resource, which many people use for more exciting and fast paced gaming. You cannot compare PVP with and without voice communication and say one is remotely as proficient in a tactical sense as the other. Without voice communications, one side of a conflict has a far less chance of victory (With glaring exceptions) With compromised voice communications, one side of the conflict has far less chance of victory, while the other has a far greater chance. Is this argument about teamspeak? Not really. The argument I make is the utter impossibility to sa*uard such assets from outside interference. With multiple accounts, no amount of research, no amount of steadfast investigation and patience will stop a "spy" from getting in to your organization. Obviously there is risk-management measures that can assuage the recruitment process, but in all reality, they are going to get in. I hope this isn't taken as whining, but as reality. Perhaps it is just the way my own brain is wired, I enjoy this game far more when I, for instance, come across a close match to myself in a random place, have a nail biter of a fight, and win. Or not. The grand point of everything I feel in my heart, is do you really enjoy listening to what your enemy is doing to know how to best fight him? Do you enjoy using undetectable spies in order to discover his movements, instead of working to discover them yourselves by some honest hard work and things like locator agents? Do you care more about the killmails than the actual time leading up to, and the fight itself? Is it enjoyable to sow so much discord on the public forums, that paying members of this game avoid them now? I guess the idea of a game should be something that entertains you, something you do to relax or forget about troubles, or to go cause some to burn some stress. I just wonder if there is some point you guys won't cross in the pursuit of "fun". Hidden in this signature is a secret message.** I like pie.
Lag Fest Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 04:04:00 - [339] as you might have noticed, BoB really enjoys PvP. we love all aspects of it and we have absolutley no problems with using TS spies and forum spies. Its all part of the game, som ppl enjoy mining and building, others just pure killin and there is also a group that like to infiltrate the oponent, find out valuable info and if possible dmg the oponent from within without getting caught. Its all part of the war my dear enemy. You also mention that when you enter the game you want to relax a bit and just have fun, did it ever cross you that BoB enjoys what we are doing and that its our way of relaxing? That is the beauty of EvE, you can do whatever you want. If you want to blow something up without the risk of getting blown up urself than there are always missions in empire, if you wish only occasional PvP than there is piracy in lowsec. eve supports all types of gameplay, you just simply need to find your own type and settle with it. As for "how far would BoB go to get what they want?" We'd never brake any rules set by CCP. simple as that Best Regards Lag Fest _______________________________________
Angelica Krem Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:07:00 - [340] As a semi-inactive member I really shouldnt be posting but I cant ignore this. Originally by: Gungankllr With multiple accounts, no amount of research, no amount of steadfast investigation and patience will stop a "spy" from getting in to your organization. ...... Do you enjoy using undetectable spies in order to discover his movements, instead of working to discover them yourselves by some honest hard work and things like locator agents? "Honest" hard work would include safe guarding your corporation and alliance from spies. Why do you shy away from such honest hard work? It's not only BoB that has access to your forums and internal out of game communication tools, others have admitted to have the same access, so it seems that you dont do anything to safe guard your communication pathways at all. Honest hard work includes clearing old access and basically setting up a logistical system to maintain this important out of game asset. As it is you dont even need a spy to infiltrate ASCN, disgruntled members and old member forum access seems to be enough and for a former infiltrator like my self it just looks sad to see the oldest EVE lesson be lost on such a great former contender like ASCN. And in closing I want to state that you are right it's impossible to stop a "spy" from getting into your inner circle but you can make it much harder and thus limit the number of spies that are successfull and if your sure of your security then it becomes much simpler to wash those spies away once you are infiltrated.
Dr Smythe Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:29:00 - [341] OMG, actually didn't want to say anything as it's on the kazillionth page of this thread. Just wanted to show off my siggy :D God Damn I hope this works
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:35:00 - [342] your sig is to large, change it or the mods will nerf j0 Originally by: omeega PICTURE TOO BIG, KGB INCOMING HAVE FUN.
Dr Smythe Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:39:00 - [343] no i will not :P
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:40:00 - [344] Originally by: Dr Smythe OMG, actually didn't want to say anything as it's on the kazillionth page of this thread. Just wanted to show off my siggy :D God Damn I hope this works From the rules: The size limits for signature graphics are as follows: * Maximum height: 120 pixels * Maximum width: 400 pixels * Maximum file size: 24,000 bytes (not kbytes) Nice sig though ..... My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Dr Smythe Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:43:00 - [345] Thanks maybe I can make it a mini me sig :D
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:54:00 - [346] you are stretching the forums aswell forumcat is not pleased Originally by: omeega PICTURE TOO BIG, KGB INCOMING HAVE FUN.
Barrick Stormsworn Minmatar CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.12.22 11:02:00 - [347] Originally by: Blacklight Edited by: Blacklight on 22/12/2006 03:21:50 Originally by: Gungankllr I just think that if the best this game has to offer as the "Best in Game" is BoB, then we sure did go down a wrong road somewhere. I can't let this slide without a comment. Do you not think given the nature of the game (and the fact that MMO's in general tend to polarise this way) Eve lends itself to having for want of a better phrase "forces of good and forces of evil"? Don't you think that given the description on the box and CCP's intention to allow all types of gameplay that having a group like BoB (regardless of whether that group was successful or not) was inevitable? I believe the answer to both those questions is yes. Yes the game and the nature of MMO's lends itself to a polarisation of a significant portion of the playerbase towards either "good" or "evil". Yes we should expect very aggressive and ruthless play styles given the nature of Eve and the way the Devs have envisaged the game should be played. So how, given the above, do you arrive at the conclusion that we have taken a wrong turn just because the "bad guys" (again for want of better terminology) happen to be on top at the moment? If BoB falls in a month, for argument's sake, and Eve goes through a period where the dominant force is one with a largely "good" playing style would that be the right way for the game to progress? What would make that the 'right' way? Frankly that statement of yours is just utter drivel Gungankllr. The only people who have gone down a wrong road somewhere are those that failed to understand the way the game is designed to work and assumed they could play sim-city in space when this is a PvP game where might makes right. If 'the good guys' want to triumph then they should get their house in order and not whine about the fact that for some nebulous unfounded reason it is 'wrong' that more aggressive and ruthless people are enjoying greater success than they are. I could go on about this whole polarisation of attitude in MMO's between 'good' and 'evil' and the fact that Eve is one of the first MMO's to provide an environment where that polarisation is less and less relevant, despite the playerbase en-masse's tendency to fall into such easily defined pigeonholes. The fact is that ASCN's play style was no more 'right' and BoB's is no more 'wrong' than any other, just because you're getting your arses kicked doesn't mean that the game and community have taken the wrong path somewhere along the way - it simply means that you need a new strategy in order to be more successful. The 'right road' in Eve is simply a matter of perception and your perception is no more valid than anyone elses - herein lies the greatness of Eve. It's nice to know that someone else acknowledges this :-) The above is what makes this a game... because EVE isn't some epic struggle between good and evil. Not really. At the end of the day, even if I just got podded by the "bad guys," I can go read a book. Or, I can go join the winning side. Sort of reminds me of BF2. Which side are the good guys and which are the bad? Of course, the "good guys" are whichever side you're currently on. Your enemies are the "bad guys." People in EVE are no different, they just seem to whine more :-P Also, I must say, reading the GHSC coup just before I started playing EVE is one of the things that drew me in. A game where literally almost anything is possible really appeals to me. I may not be a spy myself, but I heartily respect a game that makes room for that. Kudos to CCP.
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.22 11:13:00 - [348] come and join us instead we get to shoot both sides - so if u want to shoot BOB while they attack ASCN and have some fun and vise versa as well as 12 other alliacnes come and join privateers we are the mystery element in eve and making a killing ISK wise in the process These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Coupo Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 11:33:00 - [349] Originally by: Miss Overlord come and join us instead we get to shoot both sides - so if u want to shoot BOB while they attack ASCN and have some fun and vise versa as well as 12 other alliacnes come and join privateers we are the mystery element in eve and making a killing ISK wise in the process Im guessing, wrong character.. no longer a mystery to me heh I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.12.22 11:46:00 - [350] Originally by: Miss Overlord come and join us instead we get to shoot both sides - so if u want to shoot BOB while they attack ASCN and have some fun and vise versa as well as 12 other alliacnes come and join privateers we are the mystery element in eve and making a killing ISK wise in the process Lol busted?
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:00:00 - [351] Originally by: Miss Overlord come and join us instead we get to shoot both sides - so if u want to shoot BOB while they attack ASCN and have some fun and vise versa as well as 12 other alliacnes come and join privateers we are the mystery element in eve and making a killing ISK wise in the process OH NOES MISS OVERLORD DOES A LUNAS. And his main turns out to be a nobody as well :/ dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:01:00 - [352] Originally by: Miss Overlord come and join us instead we get to shoot both sides - so if u want to shoot BOB while they attack ASCN and have some fun and vise versa as well as 12 other alliacnes come and join privateers we are the mystery element in eve and making a killing ISK wise in the process lol you really are a prize muppet Blog
pershphanie Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:08:00 - [353] Originally by: Gungankllr With multiple accounts, no amount of research, no amount of steadfast investigation and patience will stop a "spy" from getting in to your organization. Not true at all. If your alliance put half as much effort into finding a solution for that problem as you guys do complaining about it the problem would be solved by now. It's the reason you're losing the war. Your alliance spends more time complaining and making excuses than you spend finding solutions. Originally by: Gungankllr Obviously there is risk-management measures that can assuage the recruitment process, but in all reality, they are going to get in. With that attitude ofc they are. You have the sloppiest recruiting of any alliance in eve. You expect your enemies not to capitalize on your weaknesses? If TS spying is such a great tactic and is the reason why we are winning the war than why not do the same to level the field? Originally by: Gungankllr I hope this isn't taken as whining, but as reality. It is whining. Why would anyone take it any other way? Originally by: Gungankllr Perhaps it is just the way my own brain is wired, I enjoy this game far more when I, for instance, come across a close match to myself in a random place, have a nail biter of a fight, and win. Or not. The grand point of everything I feel in my heart, is do you really enjoy listening to what your enemy is doing to know how to best fight him? You lost the moral high ground before the war even started with Several members of your leaderships endorcement of exploits. Then to seal the deal you guys continued to endorse logging off in combat. You can't play good guy card anymore. Originally by: Gungankllr Do you enjoy using undetectable spies in order to discover his movements, instead of working to discover them yourselves by some honest hard work and things like locator agents? Do you enjoy conspiracy theorys, complaining, and blaming other people for your flaws at the expense of your alliance's future? Originally by: Gungankllr I guess the idea of a game should be something that entertains you, something you do to relax or forget about troubles, or to go cause some to burn some stress. Why are you guys even bothering to show up then? If you just want to fly around and hold hands with everyone why not move your alliance to jita? Evil bob won't interrupt your year long mining ops there. There are places you can go in eve where you can relax and forget your troubles with out people bothering you. Building the largest empire in 0.0 isn't the way to achive relaxation. You asked for it. Originally by: Gungankllr I just wonder if there is some point you guys won't cross in the pursuit of "fun". Maybe killing you is fun. If you aren't having fun no one is forcing you to stay. Just move your assests to empire and quit your corp. There is no Good vs Evil here. Just Competent vs Incompetent. Originally by: CYVOK If you surrender now we will consider letting you guys keep Fountain. -CYVOK-
Buxaroo Constructive Influence	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:13:00 - [354] Originally by: Blacklight Edited by: Blacklight on 22/12/2006 03:21:50 Originally by: Gungankllr I just think that if the best this game has to offer as the "Best in Game" is BoB, then we sure did go down a wrong road somewhere. I can't let this slide without a comment. Do you not think given the nature of the game (and the fact that MMO's in general tend to polarise this way) Eve lends itself to having for want of a better phrase "forces of good and forces of evil"? Don't you think that given the description on the box and CCP's intention to allow all types of gameplay that having a group like BoB (regardless of whether that group was successful or not) was inevitable? I believe the answer to both those questions is yes. Yes the game and the nature of MMO's lends itself to a polarisation of a significant portion of the playerbase towards either "good" or "evil". Yes we should expect very aggressive and ruthless play styles given the nature of Eve and the way the Devs have envisaged the game should be played. So how, given the above, do you arrive at the conclusion that we have taken a wrong turn just because the "bad guys" (again for want of better terminology) happen to be on top at the moment? If BoB falls in a month, for argument's sake, and Eve goes through a period where the dominant force is one with a largely "good" playing style would that be the right way for the game to progress? What would make that the 'right' way? Frankly that statement of yours is just utter drivel Gungankllr. The only people who have gone down a wrong road somewhere are those that failed to understand the way the game is designed to work and assumed they could play sim-city in space when this is a PvP game where might makes right. If 'the good guys' want to triumph then they should get their house in order and not whine about the fact that for some nebulous unfounded reason it is 'wrong' that more aggressive and ruthless people are enjoying greater success than they are. I could go on about this whole polarisation of attitude in MMO's between 'good' and 'evil' and the fact that Eve is one of the first MMO's to provide an environment where that polarisation is less and less relevant, despite the playerbase en-masse's tendency to fall into such easily defined pigeonholes. The fact is that ASCN's play style was no more 'right' and BoB's is no more 'wrong' than any other, just because you're getting your arses kicked doesn't mean that the game and community have taken the wrong path somewhere along the way - it simply means that you need a new strategy in order to be more successful. The 'right road' in Eve is simply a matter of perception and your perception is no more valid than anyone elses - herein lies the greatness of Eve. OK, time for a little azzkissing, but BL nailed it right on the head about EVE. It IS a giant sandbox in 0.0. There is no good and evil, only the aggresive and docile. This isn't EQ2. Even in EQ2 you get to choose wether you want to be on the good side or the bad side. But in EVE it has ramifications. Even though there really isn't good and evil in EVE. Only blind (or not so blind) evolution.
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:23:00 - [355] Originally by: Gungankllr Quote: I think losing the Titan, then having his petition denied was just the last straw for someone that just couldn't bear to see the things he had built dying. It was a failure of leadership, nothing more, nothing less. Having amassed an enormous alliance, Titan and lots of stations ASCN clearly thought that Concord would be deployed in their empire. With all of their might they should have had their own Concord and with the ability to field at a higher level than ISSN could (but kudos to ISS for having the thought to at least do that...) Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know
PinaNi Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 13:03:00 - [356] " Because love and fear can hardly coexist, it is much safer to be feared than to be loved" Said by some realy famous guy from the medival ages...
Constantinee Caldari PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.22 14:20:00 - [357] so...is this truley the end of ascn like xtec went? please tell me no..this was looking like such a good war to follow. Want a Cheap sig?
HostageTaker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 14:45:00 - [358] Originally by: Miss Overlord come and join us instead we get to shoot both sides - so if u want to shoot BOB while they attack ASCN and have some fun and vise versa as well as 12 other alliacnes come and join privateers we are the mystery element in eve and making a killing ISK wise in the process I just spilt some coffee! >>> EvE-Online Wallpapers <<<
Riese Blecja Gallente Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.22 17:56:00 - [359] Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Gungankllr I just think that if the best this game has to offer as the "Best in Game" is BoB, then we sure did go down a wrong road somewhere. I can't let this slide without a comment. words This is both a bit stunning and is telling of why ASCN was doomed to fail from the get-go - if BoB didn't kill them then LV, or Goonswarm, or someone else would have. It stuns me that Ascendant Frontier has existed in EVE for two years and they've still fundamentally misunderstood the nature of the game in 0.0. It has always been about competing for resources, violently - and if you cannot defend your own property then it is ripped away from you by someone who can take it. My god, 0.0 is (usually) not a place where you can just "log in casually" and "forget your troubles", 0.0 is a high-stakes poker or chess game, not a game of solitaire. If you aren't ready to play the chess game, pick up your pieces and go home. BoB is the best in the game because they believe in each other, because they're up front with one another, and because they play the game the way it is meant to be played in 0.0. Anyone from the pre-beta days knows that the game has always, always been about ruthlessly competing with others for the greatest amount of success. ASCN, you have no one to blame but yourselves for your failures, because you never understood the way the game was meant to be played in 0.0 in the first place. 0.0 space is not god damned Earth & Beyond. Almost no part of EVE is. Play EVE like E&B and you will fail forever. E&B is dead, get over it. (As an aside, E&B was a festering heap of dog crap from the get-go but that's a whole other thread...) I could say more but my point is made. Finish taking them down, BoB. Teach these tools what EVE really is.
Riese Blecja Gallente Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.22 20:05:00 - [360] Originally by: Spaja Saist What has happened to BOB? Why would they let people leave? I thought it was all about the pew pew. It seems BOB is getting lazy with these eviction notices. You haven't been paying attention, then. When it's obvious that an enemy of BoB is defeated, BoB always gives a few-day "grace period" for people who want to clear out to do so before the final BoB Pain TrainÖ rolls into station. They did this with Fountain.

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