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Money = Power Pt 2

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KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:51:00 - [1] A while back I raised a thread, in which I suggested that ISk = Power. This is the thread: http://www.eve-search.com/index.dxd?thread=403563#5564853 There was some disagreement with my theory that someoone with a large amount of ISK could directly effect the landscape of Eve in a permanent manner. The debate was largely centered around what happens when the ISK runs out.... With the latest large scale war IAC vs ISS in place, it is interesting to see for the first time a real look at the power of ISK. There is 2 sources of ISK at play in this war, but essentially they are the same. There is ISS, and the amount of ISK they are paying to have MC come to work for them. It will be in the 10s of billions, but it is a drop in the ocean in reality. There are members of MC corps with 250 billion plus in their personal wallets, I am sure ISS has similar. I know the rough costings of the upper tier of Merc Corps, and I am sure that in reality ISS could afford without even noticing it to employ MC for 4-8 weeks. And of course could bring them back in at a notice with a decent sized retainer in place. There are also the investors, willing to protect their investment, much like the current employer of KIA. He sees that the 0.0 arena is taken care off, and thus KIA are on duty mopping up the Hubs so IAC resupplying is risky, and agent runners that we all know make the most noise when their gameplay is under threat. Those investors that want to ensure the safety of ISS and their investment are large in number, a factor it seems IAC didn't consider pre war deccing. On their own ISS would NO DOUBT fall to IAC. It would be a slaughtering, but with the power of ISK behind them, they are a force to be very reckoned with, and this reaction from them is a clear sign to anyone thinking of knocking on their door in the future. IAC cannot win this war, they must concede and make peace, or they will lose more than just a battle, their home is seriously under pressure. I personally feel that my original point in the original post still stands. If someone has a large quantity of ISK, they can effect the landscape of Eve in a dramatic way. Taking stations for resale, breaking morale of entire alliances, clearing POS, smashing logistics. All it needs is a desire and the resource, and except invention ;) anything is possible. Single people with a few 100 billion isk to spank, could end entire alliances..... the ball game is larger than just teh few big players we all know n love. Put simply "we have isk, and we are willing to use it" is a stand point that imho over time will begin to play more and more in the poilitics of Eve. As more and more Merc corps wake up, and the existing top guys grow in strength resource and numbers, the day when you wont even need an in house defense force are really not that far away. Interesting times indeed. KIA EVE Home
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:56:00 - [2] Edited by: Omeega on 19/12/2006 13:59:37 Don't ever mistake the ability to hire alot of mercs to take someone's stations for a permanent solution to your problem. Taking an alliance's space is only a definite 'win' if said alliance is left in no shape to retaliate at a later date. Mercs are a temporary solution, and always will be. In the end, your ability to devestate rather then just remove your enemy is key if you're loking for a permanent solution. Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. Anyone copying this text is a fool! Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:58:00 - [3] Don't ever mistake the ability to hire alot of mercs to take someone's stations for a permanent solution to your problem. Taking an alliance's space is only a definite 'win' if said alliance is left in no shape to retaliate at a later date. Mercs are a temporary solution, and always will be. In the end, your ability to devestate rather then just remove your enemy is key if you're loking for a permanent solution. Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Omeega Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. What if MC/KIA/OO + friends were hired for 6 months..... you think this is impossible? Because I tell you now it certainly isn't. I am not a natural capatilist, but ISK = anything is possible. KIA EVE Home
Cabadrin Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:11:00 - [5] I want to know who in the MC has 250 billion! I'll start begging them immediately, I only have 2.7 billion In EVE, isk does equal power, but there're also the intangibles you need to factor in: morale, leadership, a certain insanity that scares your opponents. These factors break alliances, not just monetary power. Almost every alliance that's fallen has been because of internal conflict and differing expectations and resolve among their members. That said, I always get a thrill when the wallet flashes and goesup several billion isk Also, Rod copying Omeega? Posting with the wrong character? _______________________________________________
Tjakka KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:16:00 - [6] Edited by: Tjakka on 19/12/2006 14:16:22 Eddz its time you go to work instat of spamming forum all day :P Mercs are a tehre to give the extra push in the back but can 90% of the time dont kick out a allaince forever because ppl dont have the isk to keep paying them. someone has to move in and keep the presure in like Omeega sad else its just a drop in the sea but if you do have the isk who knows
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:18:00 - [7] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 19/12/2006 14:19:33 Originally by: KIAEddZ Originally by: Omeega Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. What if MC/KIA/OO + friends were hired for 6 months..... you think this is impossible? Because I tell you now it certainly isn't. I am not a natural capatilist, but ISK = anything is possible. Taking a 6 month contract of which 5 months would be sitting around in a 0.0 npc region or empire hunting for small gangs and and npc'ers would break your corp Eddz. If IAC hold together, and if LV calls it a night when the IAC stations are taken, IAC are going to have the last laugh here, even if it'll cost them. edit: rofl Omeega Sorries, but they all knew AAA=BoB anyway Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:21:00 - [8] weren't ascn supposed to be one of the richest alliances in eve ....and weren't Curse alliance before that ? ....isk is a nice weapon but you need to know how to wield it knowledge is power.... guard it well
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 19/12/2006 14:19:33 Originally by: KIAEddZ Originally by: Omeega Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. What if MC/KIA/OO + friends were hired for 6 months..... you think this is impossible? Because I tell you now it certainly isn't. I am not a natural capatilist, but ISK = anything is possible. Taking a 6 month contract of which 5 months would be sitting around in a 0.0 npc region or empire hunting for small gangs and and npc'ers would break your corp Eddz. If IAC hold together, and if LV calls it a night when the IAC stations are taken, IAC are going to have the last laugh here, even if it'll cost them. edit: rofl Omeega Sorries, but they all knew AAA=BoB anyway they don't need to employ a single merc corp for 5-6 months i suppose no one has had the idea of rotating merc contracts ... i.e MC for 1 month, veto for the 2nd month but i doubt iss would bother with that cos they live with griefers 24x7, knowledge is power.... guard it well
Hermia HIVE	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:31:00 - [10] lets hope the gaming culture in eve recognises the power of economic fortitude and not just how many gun wielding maniacs you have. (actually the two go hand in hand in theory). i dont feel sorry for IAC at all, they went for (what they thought) easy targets to score that big win and claim dominance. Other alliances did this to "the big blue", i remember thinking how pathetic they are, especially after all the egotistical posts (mercs on payrol excape this ofcourse). Attacking smaller millitary forces isnt the way to increase your own image as a force to be reckoned with. Its damaging infact.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:37:00 - [11] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 19/12/2006 14:39:39 No merc corp in Eve is currently capable of handling any of the medium to big allainces on their own, bar maybe the MC. So much for rotating. Sure, isk is power. But to use it you need people, and you can only hire so many for so long. It's both cheaper and better in the long run to use other things then isk to bind those users of your power to you. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Larsson7 Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:40:00 - [12] People in the MC with 250 Bil in their personal wallets!? My two characters have a grand total of 64 Mil between them I knew Sel didnt pay me enough
Tjakka KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:44:00 - [13] Originally by: Larsson7 People in the MC with 250 Bil in their personal wallets!? My two characters have a grand total of 64 Mil between them I knew Sel didnt pay me enough Guess those "special members" give him Extra service in .....
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Larsson7 People in the MC with 250 Bil in their personal wallets!? My two characters have a grand total of 64 Mil between them I knew Sel didnt pay me enough I'll have my MC alts send you some isk later Larsson, you have always been one of my favourites. KIA EVE Home
Coug Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:47:00 - [15] ISK buys you time, not power. ISS can hire us to bide them time to bring IAC to the negotating table. This does give them an advantage on the negotating table as more and more POS die, but that largely depends on the skill of the diplomats as well as the goals of the ISS Management. ----------------- ~C~
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:48:00 - [16] If anyone's sat with 250b in their wallet they want a slap, isk should be put to work not looked at. Blog
Speng Angel's of Redemption	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:49:00 - [17] Originally by: KIAEddZ On their own ISS would NO DOUBT fall to IAC. It would be a slaughtering, but with the power of ISK behind them, they are a force to be very reckoned with, and this reaction from them is a clear sign to anyone thinking of knocking on their door in the future. Perhaps, then, it is for the best that IAC pushed the button now. It seems that after the initial prodding of the tiger and the crushing response that IAC + friends intend to somehow remove ISS as a force. Whether this is possible in the face of the ISK mountain is another debate altogether, but to leave ISS alone to accrue more wealth only makes them a more dangerous entity for the future.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Omeega Edited by: Omeega on 19/12/2006 13:59:37 Don't ever mistake the ability to hire alot of mercs to take someone's stations for a permanent solution to your problem. Taking an alliance's space is only a definite 'win' if said alliance is left in no shape to retaliate at a later date. Mercs are a temporary solution, and always will be. In the end, your ability to devestate rather then just remove your enemy is key if you're loking for a permanent solution. Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. Actually agree with you, the world has come to an end :) AXE - Where the men work hard and the girls want to play.
Larsson7 Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:59:00 - [19] Originally by: KIAEddZ Originally by: Larsson7 People in the MC with 250 Bil in their personal wallets!? My two characters have a grand total of 64 Mil between them I knew Sel didnt pay me enough I'll have my MC alts send you some isk later Larsson, you have always been one of my favourites. \o/ <3
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:11:00 - [20] Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 19/12/2006 15:11:54 Originally by: Omeega Edited by: Omeega on 19/12/2006 13:59:37 Don't ever mistake the ability to hire alot of mercs to take someone's stations for a permanent solution to your problem. Taking an alliance's space is only a definite 'win' if said alliance is left in no shape to retaliate at a later date. Mercs are a temporary solution, and always will be. In the end, your ability to devestate rather then just remove your enemy is key if you're loking for a permanent solution. Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. Anyone copying this text is a fool! Completely agree Isk is worthless unless once you have taken the space you are then able to hold it merc's won't be around forever. Once they leave you need to then hold that space. Isk is power if used correctly the amount of mercs hired by ASCN was quite big and I only saw part of the list but it hasn't really helped them. PS: I would also like to know who has that amount of isk sat in their wallet. /me looks at Sel
nickky01 The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Traxio Nacho Originally by: Omeega Edited by: Omeega on 19/12/2006 13:59:37 Don't ever mistake the ability to hire alot of mercs to take someone's stations for a permanent solution to your problem. Taking an alliance's space is only a definite 'win' if said alliance is left in no shape to retaliate at a later date. Mercs are a temporary solution, and always will be. In the end, your ability to devestate rather then just remove your enemy is key if you're loking for a permanent solution. Mercs can be used to remove, but to devastate you need to keep up that pressure for far longer then the average merc contract lasts. Anyone copying this text is a fool! Completely agree Isk is worthless unless once you have taken the space you are then able to hold it merc's won't be around forever. Once they leave you need to then hold that space. Isk is power if used correctly the amount of mercs hired by ASCN was quite big and I only saw part of the list but it hasn't really helped them. agreed.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:17:00 - [22] I like you KIAEddZ but I think you are partly wrong on this. Case in point : ASCN. More money than you can dream. At a HC meeting, with chips on the table at the beginning of this war they could put down 5 outposts and 200 billion. Money can change a lot of things. But it is not, nor will it ever be a replacment for good leadership. And in Eve I think that smart, charismatic leadership is the single most valuable commodity you can have.
CDS Leader Caldari Eve Forum Warriors	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Montaire I like you KIAEddZ but I think you are partly wrong on this. Case in point : ASCN. More money than you can dream. At a HC meeting, with chips on the table at the beginning of this war they could put down 5 outposts and 200 billion. Money can change a lot of things. But it is not, nor will it ever be a replacment for good leadership. And in Eve I think that smart, charismatic leadership is the single most valuable commodity you can have. In ASCN's case, those riches were limited to a few while the agerage isk/member ratio was low. Unless I am mistaken, those riches are assumed to be.... missing..... or more realistically, in the pockets of the leaders
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.19 15:28:00 - [24] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 19/12/2006 15:28:46 Originally by: Coug ISK buys you time, not power. ISS can hire us to bide them time to bring IAC to the negotating table. This does give them an advantage on the negotating table as more and more POS die, but that largely depends on the skill of the diplomats as well as the goals of the ISS Management. omg were ****ed /me hides diplomat badge Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
n sx The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Hermia i dont feel sorry for IAC at all, they went for (what they thought) easy targets to score that big win and claim dominance. Other alliances did this to "the big blue", i remember thinking how pathetic they are, especially after all the egotistical posts (mercs on payrol excape this ofcourse). IAC in no way is asking you to feel sorry for us. ISS and IAC knew this war was always going to happen. Ask Count its been brewing for a long time and if he disagree's he would be lieing. IAC standing up for our right to be a neutral entity and to be respected by our neighbour is all that was asked for. It was never given and as a result their navy was shamed in 3 days. That said, what has been amassed against us is NOTHING short of amazing, and regardless of what they're doing to us, we are watching in awe. It's potentially the largest capital fleet ever amassed in EVE and we're feeling very special that we deserve this level attention. Ultimately, in the end there is no glory in a 8000 pilot coalition vs 2000 pilot coalition. I am sure our previous opponents will testify that if LV and friends hadn't uber blobbed with the capital compliment they possess (not to discredit them they are serving a role) IAC would still be in MC, FIX and ISS' face fighting the hard fight. Right now, undocking is just outright stupid and just throwing away any ship a pilot chooses to fly. The last two days are the first that IAC's actually lost more ships than we've destroyed. The conclusion of this conflict has many endings, all of which I can assure you IAC is looking into. How it will end or unfold over the next few months only time will tell. Lets just say, if IAC can keep MC and it's pilots in a job for the next 6 months, i'm going to start asking Seleene to start passing some commissions our way hehe. I can assure you IAC savours the fight and adores putting what skills we have against what many deem to be the best in the industry. Merc's serve a purpose in EVE and in this case, the sheer number of them goes a long way to guaranteeing their success. My only question to them is, is it purely the ISK that you will sell yourself to or is there any moral standing that you will not undertake? IAC's pilots fight from their own wallets, with ISK they earn on their own and for that I am forever indebted with their presence. I said it in another thread, and I will stand by it now that ISK will never buy you honour, glory or respect - that you need to earn the hard way.
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:19:00 - [26] Personally I like ISK. Pure, clean, crisp ISK. That I can roll around nekkid in. Glorious! Money is power, money has the power to change. For good and for bad. Always has been, always will be. No matter what reality you are in. Just look outside EVE, its not like its "good will" that runs the world. Sad but true. Regards, Lowa What if the truth was something else?
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:47:00 - [27] Omeega wins this thread.
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Lowa Personally I like ISK. Pure, clean, crisp ISK. That I can roll around nekkid in. Glorious! Blood money! I do agree that ISK by itself is not enough to instill a permanent change in the political map.. You need someone to stay and live in the new space.. If your ISK can give the needed push to either push out (or protect, like happend in 9UY), and then maintain control via friends or whatever, then yes money can be very powerful force. But other than that, its only use is for T2 bpos Save Tranquility!
Raid Caldari Tyrell Corp	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:57:00 - [29] In fairness to the rest of us... ISS hired 3 mercs... The rest of us that are there are here because we have an interest in seeing ISS survive and IAC die. Money does buy some power... but throwing some money in with dedicated pilots and friends and you got yourself one giant IAC gang bang.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Coug ISK buys you time, not power. So true. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (Temporarily down)

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