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B0rn2KiLL
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2006.12.23 04:46:00 -
[91]
jesus christ i'd say poetic justice but.. i feel for you
im happy im not into industry or into fancy exploration n manufacturing, though it does sound interesting.. but holy ****. Miner I?
you have my sympethies
best tell the rest of the guys to chill over this thing before they get owned too. mini Doomsday device? o.0
CCP IS THE DEVIL! ---
new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u. *Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11
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Lord Artemis
Team Wide Open Throttle
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Posted - 2006.12.23 06:33:00 -
[92]
sheesh, tough day
a few of us have been doing exploration in low sec areas, only to find that yes the rewards are pretty jacked up, we kind of thought maybe the rewards like rare loot drops were chanced based but now I'm not so sure and even if they were with situations like the above would it even be worth it if it did turn out to be say a navy issued bpc? [with over 2 bil in losses]
The exploration sites are indeed harder and a nice challenge, however with the situation above in 0.0 why wouldn't someone be allowed at least a cap ship to tanked insane amount of damage. meh, hopefully we will here something from the powers that be about this, I loved the idea when it was announced and hopefully it is not/will not be as it seems now. _____________________________ Public Health Advisory - Say NO to OOC! |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2006.12.23 07:37:00 -
[93]
So your just saying its as hard as the first 10/10 plexes?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.23 08:20:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
... We all rushed to the can... wondering what loot could be gaurded by a doomsday device, 4x Giga Pulse Sentries, several hundered battleships... We knew full well that lvl 4 missions in 1.0 space drop centus-X large armor reps, officer mods, and billions upon billions of ISK of loot for missions that don't even compair to this lvl of difficulty.
In the Can:
1x Cargo Scanner I 1x Small Nosferotu I 1x Miner I
We thought to ourselves, how can this be? Who uses 4x Giga Pulse Lasers to defend a miner I? Who uses a doomsday device to stop the theft of a Small Nos? How is it fair that we finally destroyed a complex that is impossible to complete without ship losses and we get nothing... What was the point?
Total Damage Tanked By Megathron: 3.75 Million Damage (Base) Rough Losses: 2bil ISK in ships and modules. Estimated Value of Loot: 10k ISK.
Summary:
We spent the rest of the night salvaging the loot, inspecting every object in the complex. Testing Codebreakers, Analyzers, & Salvagers on everything.
Nothing... Basically in the end we lost roughly 2bil isk in ships to some of the nastiest tricks we have ever seen (doomsday device and POS guns). And in the end... the value of the loot was worth less then the value of the tags we used to get in.
The CCP Risk vs Reward Formula:
Lvl 4 Mission in a 1.0 System = Centus-X Loot
No risk of being killed by other players No time spent trying to "find" the mission No real risk of losing ships No doomsday suprises No POS guns spawning on top of you
Exploration Complexes in 0.0 = Miner I
Random Spawn Sizes POS Weapons Doomsday Devices
I was hoping this post would end on a positive note. That there would have been "something" at the end of that complex. Basically, if you find a hidden complex in 0.0. Give the BM to one of your enemies. It isn't worth the trouble for a Miner I.
I have found all your post highly interesting and informing, but I must warn you that you are way back in the rewards for level 4 missions.
You don't finr officer items, very little factions items, and the loot for a typical combat mission is at most 20 millions, most from reciclying items.
Your loot is even worse, but in line with the standard loot tables for all not belt rat NPC.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.23 09:24:00 -
[95]
Wow. Unless there's some type of completely amazing "buy your won station" exploration plex reward out there, that sucks.
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Devanesc
Disbelievers of Fate The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.12.23 13:01:00 -
[96]
Similar situation happened to us. We found a Sansha's hidden plex... attempted it on day one fairly late, scratch 1 arma, 2 x ravens. Due to the hour we left it for that night. Went back the next evening and took it on in a Damnation (2 x Corpum a-type armour reps with an nano pump rig fitted) AND with a remote repper Dommi. Total time to completion (avoiding all structures) 3 hours.
Loot reward - 1 Multifrequency Crystal... small, oh and 10 x 400 cap injector batterys.
Gotta love it.
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DeadProphet
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.23 13:11:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas Edited by: Commander Nikolas on 21/12/2006 06:26:16 As promised I will finish the story now.
Plan G:
Tonight we had a good number of people online who wanted to help finish the complex. We decided to go with a super tank strategy. We used a megathron with at least 90% EM/Therm resists and about 10 battleships with rep drones, and large remote reps.
We geared up and approached the complex. Upon entering the first stage and approaching the gate we learned that it now requiered a Sansha's Diamond Tag to enter (a much more resonable request then the mini-doomsday device it had given us previously).
So we quickly sent someone back to get a Sansha's Diamond Tag. Finally, we had a plan that was going to work. The tanking megathron recieved the tag and we all activated the gate. Apparently the designer threw in a catch to this acceleration gate. It takes 1 Diamond Tag per person...
Scratch: 1 Megathron
Plan H:
By this point the fact that we had reached Plan H was disturbing. We got a Sansha's Diamond Tag for everyone in the gang. Finally, everyone was able to pass through the gate. With all our remote reps and rep drones the megathrons tank held. Slowly but surly we killed the NPCs, one by one... then finally the Sansha's Military Bunker. The crux of every green message of death that had been displayed to us... boom... the screen light up as it was destroyed.
We all rushed to the can... wondering what loot could be gaurded by a doomsday device, 4x Giga Pulse Sentries, several hundered battleships... We knew full well that lvl 4 missions in 1.0 space drop centus-X large armor reps, officer mods, and billions upon billions of ISK of loot for missions that don't even compair to this lvl of difficulty.
In the Can:
1x Cargo Scanner I 1x Small Nosferotu I 1x Miner I
We thought to ourselves, how can this be? Who uses 4x Giga Pulse Lasers to defend a miner I? Who uses a doomsday device to stop the theft of a Small Nos? How is it fair that we finally destroyed a complex that is impossible to complete without ship losses and we get nothing... What was the point?
Total Damage Tanked By Megathron: 3.75 Million Damage (Base) Rough Losses: 2bil ISK in ships and modules. Estimated Value of Loot: 10k ISK.
Summary:
We spent the rest of the night salvaging the loot, inspecting every object in the complex. Testing Codebreakers, Analyzers, & Salvagers on everything.
Nothing... Basically in the end we lost roughly 2bil isk in ships to some of the nastiest tricks we have ever seen (doomsday device and POS guns). And in the end... the value of the loot was worth less then the value of the tags we used to get in.
The CCP Risk vs Reward Formula:
Lvl 4 Mission in a 1.0 System = Centus-X Loot
No risk of being killed by other players No time spent trying to "find" the mission No real risk of losing ships No doomsday suprises No POS guns spawning on top of you
Exploration Complexes in 0.0 = Miner I
Random Spawn Sizes POS Weapons Doomsday Devices
I was hoping this post would end on a positive note. That there would have been "something" at the end of that complex. Basically, if you find a hidden complex in 0.0. Give the BM to one of your enemies. It isn't worth the trouble for a Miner I.
honestly, we had the same thing. mega hard plex (although not quite THAT bad :P) which dropped *nothing*
seems CCP forgot to put faction loot into these things to actually make them worth while.
CCP: these plexes are very cool, but the novelty factor has worn off and NOBODY will do them if they drop nothing - you just effectively wasted your time in making them.
fix it plz and ppl will run them
DP
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.23 16:18:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Merciless1 Edited by: Merciless1 on 23/12/2006 04:43:15
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia What's the problem in 3-4 ships losing to 30?
Take 10 people, have one ship setup tanked to hell and back, bring a logistics ship or two, and have your Battleships carry heavy armor/shield drones.
Sure BCs and cruisers are easier to hit than an AF or inty, but that doesn't matter when you have dozens of maintenance drones on them, along with a Basilisk/Guardian or two. Your first ship, had you known what you were facing, and had those resists on a CBC with plates, would've survived, it would take more damage, but when you have several ships shooting stuff for you, while using drones/arrays to boost your tank, you can tank unholy amounts of damage.
We took 6 people the first night and about 10 the second night. The problem with this complex is it was designed to defeat the normal stratigies people use. When you warp in the enitre complex (30+ BS's and webber frigs) aggro's you from all directions, thats why the first BS and the HAC went down. Of the 3 AF's that followed one was killed by webber frigs the other by modual lag, the third was killed by a booby traped structure dealing damge to all ships around it. The second stage was OMGWTF when 4 Giga pulse laser spawned along with 10 T2 spider drones and a ton more BS's, down go the Apoc and my Geddon. Then on the second night we sent on our tanking BS and SURPRISE, since when to acceleration gates require 1 key person, by by Mega.
It didn't matter how many people we brought, with these being so new nobody knows what to expect, and the designers engineered this plex to kill anbody using the standerd methods. The pre-nerfed stuff is crap, if thier going to pre-nerf the plex they should pre-nerf all the ships in it into structure or pre-GIMME MY ISK BACK!!!, sorry about that, I'm still a little bitter.
Why is it a problem that the plex defeats normal, effortless tactics? The only problem I see is the loot sucked. The fact that standard tanking tactics didn't work is a good thing, the exploration plexes add some excitement because you don't know what to expect. If all you did was warp in, tank with one ship and gank with the rest, tat'd be pretty lame.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Celeste Coeval
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Posted - 2006.12.23 16:27:00 -
[99]
I always thought challenge in it's self was reward enough, but seems these days people need something dropping. Although I have to agree that something more should be dropped, at least named items and at best the odd bit of faction loot.
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein |
Sakaki Karazawa
Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2006.12.23 18:27:00 -
[100]
Oh god. D: I feel like I should be pouring out a forty on the sidewalk for you guys. D:
Sounds like exploration loot is broken. :< --- <Pallantre> 'should i join snigg or veto'? <Pallantre> and i thought.. thats like arguing whether you should join bloods or crips |
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Merciless1
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.23 21:19:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Why is it a problem that the plex defeats normal, effortless tactics? The only problem I see is the loot sucked. The fact that standard tanking tactics didn't work is a good thing, the exploration plexes add some excitement because you don't know what to expect. If all you did was warp in, tank with one ship and gank with the rest, tat'd be pretty lame.
The fact that it was hard isn't the problem, in fact the dificulty and all the new unexpected stuff made it extremly fun, I can honestly say that that is the most fun I've ever had NPC'ing. The problem is with it specificly desinged to deafet the tried and true stratiges CCP knew full well that while it was fun, it would also be costly.
My problem is that we completed it and recived nothing to make the effort worth the losses we took. There are several other plexes in the area, a couple rumored to be harder than that one, that I would very much like to run, but I simply can't justify the cost of doing them if there is going to be nothing to reimburse myself or others should we take more losses.
I would of course like it to drop some insanly good loot that can fund my pvp for months, but I would at least like it to drop enough so that while I may not have gained anything more than a good time, I at least didn't loose 200mil in the process.
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Question: If I log in and out 29 times in a row and I still lose my ship can I petition?
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.23 23:32:00 -
[102]
Contrary to what everyone else is saying, this only makes me want to go exploring even more. Sounds like a laugh --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.24 00:09:00 -
[103]
to everyone whining how plexes are broken, read this and think again, think hard.
Originally by: Madoxine My corp did this plex today and I strongly reccomend you bring a survey scanner. In only 5 monoclinic bistot roids we scanned 215k units
We are busy with our first miningop in over a year. Too bad barges arnŠt allowed in it
i suggest breaking out your calculator too.
and remember: there is more than meets the eye! :)
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Major Raditz
Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.24 01:34:00 -
[104]
Risk vs reward should apply here.
Very risky complex = nice loot, pushover complex doable in a bc solo = lame loot.
Seems logical
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Merciless1
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.24 01:57:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Xenofur to everyone whining how plexes are broken, read this and think again, think hard.
Originally by: Madoxine My corp did this plex today and I strongly reccomend you bring a survey scanner. In only 5 monoclinic bistot roids we scanned 215k units
We are busy with our first miningop in over a year. Too bad barges arnŠt allowed in it
i suggest breaking out your calculator too.
and remember: there is more than meets the eye! :)
We did scan the roids and there was well over a billion isk in minsin them, the problem is it doesn't allow barges in and the complexes aren't staic, I'm not a miner but I think mining all that with just BS's would take a while. It also lead us to believe the the complexe would drop some nice stuff b/c these roids where on the first stage, so it all makes very little sence to me.
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Question: If I log in and out 29 times in a row and I still lose my ship can I petition?
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.24 02:15:00 -
[106]
rofl owned
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.24 03:17:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Xenofur on 24/12/2006 03:18:40
Originally by: Merciless1
Originally by: Xenofur to everyone whining how plexes are broken, read this and think again, think hard.
Originally by: Madoxine My corp did this plex today and I strongly reccomend you bring a survey scanner. In only 5 monoclinic bistot roids we scanned 215k units
We are busy with our first miningop in over a year. Too bad barges arnŠt allowed in it
i suggest breaking out your calculator too.
and remember: there is more than meets the eye! :)
We did scan the roids and there was well over a billion isk in minsin them, the problem is it doesn't allow barges in and the complexes aren't staic, I'm not a miner but I think mining all that with just BS's would take a while. It also lead us to believe the the complexe would drop some nice stuff b/c these roids where on the first stage, so it all makes very little sence to me.
these complexes usually operate under one rule: they stay around until they are "used up", which either includes killing, looting and mining everythign applicable; OR to do the previously mentioned things on dev-defined targets. or in other words: the thing prolly stays around until the roids are gone. now the next point: from your description it sounds like the plex broke ALL possible rules that governed npc interaction and complex design so far. one of those rules is: you fight through all the enemies to the end and get the reward. now. what makes you think they'd leave THAT rule alone? couldn't they have hidden the reward in open sight, putting before you the choice of taking the sparrow in your hand vs. the pigeon on the roof? and like the good mission runner you are, you assumed that arbitrary rules still hold true and went for the pigeon, which didn't even fly away, but was merely a figment of your imagination. the plex is not broken. your ability to adapt is. :)
also, regarding your argument of mining it in battleships not being effective: in a 7* Miner II Minerthron i can mine about 2100 units per hour with modest skills. this in effect translates into an income of 17,000,000.00 ISK per hour. quite acceptable imo. granted, it would still take quite a bit of time to mine all the ore away, roughly 20 hours for 5 people, assuming there are 215k units, but as you said yourself, the value of the ore present lies in the billions and as i showed, the hourly rate can not be called bad by any stretch.
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Tonkin
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.24 04:01:00 -
[108]
use a ibis
hehehe, to be honest man i would of done the same, but first scouted it out
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Merciless1
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.24 04:01:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Merciless1 on 24/12/2006 04:02:36 The complex dissapered shortly after the large base on the second level was destroyed, and my refernce to mining in BS's wasn't an argument against them, I simply stated I didn't know if mining BS's would be sufficently effective mining such large quantites.
I, and I assume my fellow corpmates, thought of the roids as a bonus rather than the end result, and TBH I think the idea of putting massivly valubale roids on the first level on then giving nothing from a VERY heavily defended structure on the second stage a joke, and a bad joke at that, if your going to make people work for something than it's only proper to reward them for thier effort.
Please keep in mind myself and my corpmates aren't whining and we're not angry about this, we're just a bit dissapointed and perplexed. We had a great amount of fun and this thread was made to tell an interesting and funny story, not to argue about whether we should have stoped to mine the roids, and I'd like to keep it that way
Edit: Fyi i'm not a mission runner
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Question: If I log in and out 29 times in a row and I still lose my ship can I petition?
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Kaylee Zara
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Posted - 2006.12.24 04:02:00 -
[110]
Funniest story ever.
Maybe it's a Miner I of +1 Titan slaying? :p
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RabbidFerret
Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2006.12.24 05:05:00 -
[111]
Ok CCP, the joke's on us. Now fix the complexes.
Seriously, to the OP: Good story m8, but its a shame to see you get shafted by CCP.
RabbidFerret HR Director Templars of Space C.O.R.E Alliance
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J'ghathii
Caldari Order of The Black Rose
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Posted - 2006.12.24 06:02:00 -
[112]
Its like the Devs are griefing high-level players
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.24 06:47:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Merciless1
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Why is it a problem that the plex defeats normal, effortless tactics? The only problem I see is the loot sucked. The fact that standard tanking tactics didn't work is a good thing, the exploration plexes add some excitement because you don't know what to expect. If all you did was warp in, tank with one ship and gank with the rest, tat'd be pretty lame.
The fact that it was hard isn't the problem, in fact the dificulty and all the new unexpected stuff made it extremly fun, I can honestly say that that is the most fun I've ever had NPC'ing. The problem is with it specificly desinged to deafet the tried and true stratiges CCP knew full well that while it was fun, it would also be costly.
My problem is that we completed it and recived nothing to make the effort worth the losses we took. There are several other plexes in the area, a couple rumored to be harder than that one, that I would very much like to run, but I simply can't justify the cost of doing them if there is going to be nothing to reimburse myself or others should we take more losses.
I would of course like it to drop some insanly good loot that can fund my pvp for months, but I would at least like it to drop enough so that while I may not have gained anything more than a good time, I at least didn't loose 200mil in the process.
Let's imagine that those places had, say, a 50% chance to drop a faction item.
Say you ran that same plex, but it was a guristas one, and you ended up finding some Pith stuff, or maybe even a Rattlesnake BPC. Sounds sweet right?
Now imagine a few hundred plexes like it have been found and run, possibly a few thousand, in a day, for various factions.
You now have faction-farming on a universal scale that could be compared to the exploiting done by others that was fixed a few months ago...
I'm all for rewards and all that, however I think that if anything, the npcs should drop better 'standard' loots with some of the basic faction mods being an end prize, or maybe a chance at a single nice mod, like an x-type booster/repper, or whatever. Perhaps CCP will stick gas clouds insie, or tools for booster creation, maybe some interfaces.
I don't think exploration complexes should be something you find then blitz because you've just struck it rich simply by finding the place.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Sgt Jinxed
Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.24 10:50:00 -
[114]
I quite liked reading that Nikolas. Good story telling skills :)
Sorry to hear about the loot though :(
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Darklandz
Caldari Mordu's BioLabs
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Posted - 2006.12.24 11:47:00 -
[115]
it would be nice to see some dev input on this ...
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Sabahl
Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.24 12:31:00 -
[116]
Exploration site escallation is tuned yto be too rare tright now. From reports it could do with a slight increase in chance of occurence, IMO. |
PanzerGrenadier
Caldari Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2006.12.24 13:01:00 -
[117]
Great story.
GG CCP.
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Wiley d'Coyote
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Posted - 2006.12.24 19:23:00 -
[118]
Nice complex - I would keep an eye on it if I were you - I seem to recall it took a while for the original complexes to be assigned appropriate loot.
d'C
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Horb
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.12.24 21:14:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Horb on 24/12/2006 21:15:45 We stumbled across a serpentis site yesterday. Between prepping, looting, and shooting we probably finished the complex in three hours. It was actually a blast doing. Challenging and we had no clue what to expect.
But as we blew up the battlestation at the end and rushed to the can we were disappointed to find it was completely empty. No good loot from the NPCs, only managed to salvage about 150 units.
Now, what's funny is after doing this I was encouraged enough by the fun involved that I continued to look for more sites. I found another one later in the day. I warp in my covert ops to check it out. Hey, guess what...it's the same complex we just did. I didn't even bother doing it again.
Today, I decide to look for another site. I find one. Hey guess what...it was the same one I found twice yesterday. And yes, these were completely different systems. So it looks like the exploration sites are using the same randomizer the level 4 missions used to.
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Fedaykin Naib
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.24 21:25:00 -
[120]
That sucks dude!
"Long Live the Fighters!"
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