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Arec Bardwin
1862
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:45:16 -
[31] - Quote
Never collect what you cannot afford to lose, basically. |
Pentara
Galactic Response Team
0
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:55:51 -
[32] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Never collect what you cannot afford to lose, basically.
Not really in-context for long time owners.
The last sale price of a Silver magnate I've found was ~600 B
An approximate 350% increase in what I paid for mine.
What can I afford to lose?
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2244
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:04:25 -
[33] - Quote
Pentara wrote:Arec Bardwin wrote:Never collect what you cannot afford to lose, basically. Not really in-context for long time owners. The last sale price of a Silver magnate I've found was ~600 B An approximate 350% increase in what I paid for mine. What can I afford to lose?
You can "afford" to lose anything you invest in a hangar ornament? |
Pentara
Galactic Response Team
0
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:10:16 -
[34] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Pentara wrote:Arec Bardwin wrote:Never collect what you cannot afford to lose, basically. Not really in-context for long time owners. The last sale price of a Silver magnate I've found was ~600 B An approximate 350% increase in what I paid for mine. What can I afford to lose? You can "afford" to lose anything you invest in a hangar ornament?
Seems like a great investment doesn't it?
"afford to lose" has nothing to do with collections. Collectors buy stuff because they want it. If you can afford to lose it or not doesn't matter because the goal of collectors is to create an assortment of hanger ornaments. Everyone is EVE has a different goal. Why would anyone question that goal?
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Arec Bardwin
1862
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:20:26 -
[35] - Quote
You don't lose the ornament as such. The said items will become less rare, and the collectors value of them will go down. There is also a significant potential isk loss. There is a reason for the collectors tears in this thread; they are obviously collecting something they cannot afford to lose. |
Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians
Fidelas Constans
231
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:59:27 -
[36] - Quote
This is a science game, not a magic fantasy game. "Rare" is fine, unique is not. If it could be built once it can be built again; having a single example that cant be duplicated because ~reasons~ is silly.
Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1595
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:29:40 -
[37] - Quote
So a repeat of the event has the same award? For what it lacks in creativity it makes up for in consistency at least. It does make sense that the Amarr have a "medal" of sorts tied to this specific occasion. When viewed like that different awards each time makes less sense.
Granted if we ignore the lore side of things it's just a kick in the pants to collectors, but at the same time it's that lore that opened the first opportunity to collect these items to begin with so v0v. |
Reiisha
Repracor Industries
767
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Just curious if you have a good reason this time, last time you were going to re-release the Gold Magnate was through Somer Blink and you guys made the (in my opinion) right decision and backed out of it. I'd also like to know what everyone else thinks. CCP promised not to release any more of these, just like with Adrestia / Mimir / Cambion etc I lost the original Gold Magnate back in 2004 and have owned several other uniques but I don't have any right now so it's not a financial issue for me. Does seem pretty unfair to anyone who has spent 100+ bil (2 tril in in some cases) on a limited issue ship if CCP is just going to change their minds and release more on a whim. http://eve.klaki.net/screens/2004.04.19.16.47pretty.jpg here's a pictoor I took of the gold back when I was going around foolishly solo pvping in it https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie/status/644619418199265282
I heard the gold magnate went for 500m....
That said, the magnates were given out as prizes in the succession trials. I heard some empress died and a new one has to come around at some point, this time without resurrection shennanigans.....
If it's a prize for new succession trials, i don't see why not. Makes complete sense. I don't have an issue with rare ships myself - even though i'll never own one. Gives the game's direct content some depth, if you know what i mean.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
18945
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:55:24 -
[39] - Quote
Like others have said, these are prizes for the succession trials; the last time these ships were released was the last succession trials, in late 2003. AFAIK, there are zero gold magnates left in the game, and one (was it two?) silver ones.
If there's any time to release them again, it's now - and seeing as there will only be four of the god magnate, period, I don't really see the issue.
"A City made of Dreams...is built in heaven" - GÖâ-
GPƒ U-Ç+¬ß¦ç-ƒ's Sߦ¢ß¦Å-Ç-Å
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
371
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:58:41 -
[40] - Quote
"f there's any time to release them again"
There isn't.
I'd estimate 10 silvers remaining , but could be fewer I guess depending on how many Somer had when banned etc
and Reiisha it was 1 bil not 500 mil |
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Arec Bardwin
1863
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:10:44 -
[41] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:"f there's any time to release them again"
There isn't. There is. It's April 22nd 2016, i'm guessing live on fanfest.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2528
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:10:53 -
[42] - Quote
Entity wrote:After the stratios ER skin bs I'm not the slightest bit surprised they pull a d-move like this, honestly.
You mean the SPECIAL edition Stratios ER right......
You of all people should know the difference between limited and special. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1595
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:15:22 -
[43] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Entity wrote:After the stratios ER skin bs I'm not the slightest bit surprised they pull a d-move like this, honestly. You mean the SPECIAL edition Stratios ER right...... You of all people should know the difference between limited and special.
To be fair it's just the colors. No matter how many skins you inject you won't ever have the ship itself anyways. I mean, I understand uniques being re-released making people mad, but going beyond that to say that nothing can even look like it even if it's still clearly not the same is a bit much. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9841
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:59:15 -
[44] - Quote
I will not be mad if on any occasion one of these will find a way into my hangar. 
Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
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Hengle Teron
Order In Disorder
Virtus Crusade Protectorate
58160
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:46:25 -
[45] - Quote
If a collectors goal is to have this rare ship in his hangar, does it really matter if it loses a couple of hundred billion ISK in value?
It doesn't. It matters only to speculators. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1529
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:48:52 -
[46] - Quote
I was actually more annoyed when some of the more expensive ships i had collected turned in to skins.
Sure the skin can still be sold for a lot of ISK but that is not the point. You took a serious risk undocking in a rare ship as it was always gank bait and something of a kill mail trophy so you never saw them in the wild much if ever. Now they are an indestructible skin you see them everywhere. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1033
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:59:32 -
[47] - Quote
I should get the Eidolon for all the free consultation I've given CCP. :p
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2529
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Posted - 2015.09.25 00:36:51 -
[48] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
To be fair it's just the colors. No matter how many skins you inject you won't ever have the ship itself anyways. I mean, I understand uniques being re-released making people mad, but going beyond that to say that nothing can even look like it even if it's still clearly not the same is a bit much.
My point is that a lot of these are not 'uniques'.
Limited edition = only X of it ever made.
Special edition = special release, but no specific number cap.
A lot of the collectors edition ships are actually Special edition, and people have just assumed that no more will ever be released. CCP have always said that Special edition ships may be re-released and collectors buy at their own risk.
Exactly which the Gold & Silver Magnates were released as I don't know, but if it wasn't specified at the time then it's Special.
And I have a vague recollection of them saying so at the Somer time that they were but that they would do something else as it wasn't an appropriate venue, but I'm not searching that thread for the reference myself, so don't take that as a given. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1529
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:25:20 -
[49] - Quote
There was only ever one Gold Magnate released the one ship that the OP lost.
I think the idea that "there was only one and now its gone" is actually a significant part of EVE lore and I can see why re-releasing it is controversial.
The issue has nothing to do with people who currently own one, no one does the only one that existed was destroyed long ago.
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Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
870
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:46:36 -
[50] - Quote
Part of the problem is we live in a digital world where items re-released now are exactly identical to the "vintage" ones of 12 years ago.
You can argue in favor or against re-release all you want, the fact remains that the original ships will lose their "vintage" badge, as there is no way to distinguish a re-issue from the originally released ones.
This matters to collectors regardless of whether they have an interest in their sale value or not.
In real life this would be less of a problem as it's usually obvious which is the vintage article and which is the re-issue (like with Dinky Toys, which offers reissues of their classic toys)
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Gòæ.GòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòú.GòöGòùGòá..Gòá GòáGòùGòáGò¥.GòæGòá GòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù
Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥Gòæ.GòÜGò¥.GòÜGò¥Gòæ..GòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥.Gò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥Gòæ.GòæGòÜGò¥
Got Item?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2529
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:50:54 -
[51] - Quote
Entity wrote:Part of the problem is we live in a digital world where items re-released now are exactly identical to the "vintage" ones of 12 years ago.
You can argue in favor or against re-release all you want, the fact remains that the original ships will lose their "vintage" badge, as there is no way to distinguish a re-issue from the originally released ones.
This matters to collectors regardless of whether they have an interest in their sale value or not.
In real life this would be less of a problem as it's usually obvious which is the vintage article and which is the re-issue (like with Dinky Toys, which offers reissues of their classic toys)
Yes they will lose their 'vintage' badge.
And this is not a problem provided they were a special release, as opposed to a limited release.
Both are 'unique' items, but they have different rules surrounding them and EVE players are very prone to confusing the two and then wondering why CCP has done something. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1530
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:54:34 -
[52] - Quote
Entity wrote:
In real life this would be less of a problem as it's usually obvious which is the vintage article and which is the re-issue (like with Dinky Toys, which offers reissues of their classic toys)
Not quite so obvious with fake artwork especially if the fake was created around the time the original artist was still alive and creating new works. Though generally these fakes are not copies of existing works they are purported new undiscovered works.
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Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
871
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Posted - 2015.09.25 02:19:51 -
[53] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:And this is not a problem provided they were a special release, as opposed to a limited release.
The limited vs special distinction is something introduced a very long time after the release of those ships, and at the time they were handed out with the implication that if they were gone, they would be gone forever.
There's probably some CCP posts floating around in the old forums archive saying something to that extent.
Gòª......Gòæ...GòöGòù.Gòæ.Gòæ.GòöGòù.GòªGòæ.GòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù
Gòæ.GòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòú.GòöGòùGòá..Gòá GòáGòùGòáGò¥.GòæGòá GòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù
Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥Gòæ.GòÜGò¥.GòÜGò¥Gòæ..GòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥.Gò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥Gòæ.GòæGòÜGò¥
Got Item?
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
379
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Posted - 2015.09.25 02:29:50 -
[54] - Quote
Yeah was 100% never to be released again at the time, and devs said so both on forums (no I don't have a link) and in person.
If that wasn't the case they wouldn't have taken back the BIG Lottery imperial issue apocalypse when some devs made a mistake and ignorantly gave it out.
Too bad CCP Oveur quit a long time ago, he would've prevented this kind of thing. :( |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1775
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:07:07 -
[55] - Quote
I'm not 100% on the origin of the ships, but from what I remember reading there was only 1 gold ever? And seeing how it exploded, I'm not horribly offended by CCP adding 4 more. that said I'm not really for the move,
there are still some silver ones left, and a re-release of those seems less wise.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1597
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:49:42 -
[56] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I'm not 100% on the origin of the ships, but from what I remember reading there was only 1 gold ever? And seeing how it exploded, I'm not horribly offended by CCP adding 4 more. that said I'm not really for the move,
there are still some silver ones left, and a re-release of those seems less wise.
The origin of the ships was the single prior occurrence of the event which we now have giving them away again. Basically the ships are being used like winner and participation medals for an event which only happens at the whims of CCP.
It would be something of an issue if it was stated, relative to that specific first instance of the event, that no other subsequent events of the same nature would happen, or that if there was the prizes would be different, or, understandably as a prize for something wholly unrelated. Thus far though, no proof of such has been offered. |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
470
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Posted - 2015.09.25 04:08:30 -
[57] - Quote
Lore wise the Magnate is supposed to be some pinnacle of Amarrian artistic expression and luxury so that is why another hull is probably not chosen as a reward.
I like to collect too and don't understand all the whinging over a tiny handful of ships but possibly there is time for an art dev to do two new hulls in gemstone colors or other rich materials instead of metallics to appease the 1% ?
Ruby, Sapphire, and Amethyst are all traditional imperial colors after all. (Crimson, Blue, and Purple)
or Ivory and Jet? (with gold/silver hightlights)
It isn't really constructive to just complain without suggesting alternatives.
That said one might guess an artist already spent time on the new Gold and Silver versions and probably proud of their work and wanting to show it off.
These complaints are really selfish as far as that goes IMO. |
Gneeznow
Chemically Unbalanced
115
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Posted - 2015.09.25 10:55:48 -
[58] - Quote
I hope my M4A2E4 Sherman stays as rare and wargaming doesn't go ba-- wait wrong game |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co.
I N F A M O U S
488
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Posted - 2015.09.25 11:09:15 -
[59] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:There was only ever one Gold Magnate released the one ship that the OP lost.
I think the idea that "there was only one and now its gone" is actually a significant part of EVE lore and I can see why re-releasing it is controversial.
The issue has nothing to do with people who currently own one, no one does the only one that existed was destroyed long ago.
Unless you create new lore around te release, and that is exactly what is happening. |
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
179
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:39:21 -
[60] - Quote
As a ship collector after this move, the ishukone scorp becoming just a skin where the rattlesnake victory stays as a ship (yes it matters) and the release of ishukone scorps to blink. I have now reached my limit and will not be collecting 'special' ships anymore. I have lost enough isk thanks. Another part of eve has been ruined for me.
How many silver magnates have they released? 6 factions, 4 teams each of 4? 96 Silver Magnates? I know of 6 Silver Magnates ingame currently. We are not talking about 1-100b loss for investors but about hundreds of billions! Its a lame move to pull. You could have probably got a silver Magnate for 800b before the announcement. Now as there will be 102 ingame, you can probably pick one up for 20b or less. (especially as collectors will have no faith in it holding its value, the next emperor/empress could die the next day) |
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