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Carriers? Front line now?

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POD KILL	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:18:00 - [1] I knew pre Kali carriers were kinda soft. But now that they got a huge HP boost. Do u think you can use them on the front lines. I ask cuz i want to use mine when i can fly it. On the front line. a few carrier questions. Can it use its jump drives while warp scramed? how many systems can a carrier jump thru. thx
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:20:00 - [2] Nope they cant jump when scrambled. Jump range isnt system based, its light year distance based. As for the frontlines, it work okay there, really depends on how many enemies/shiptypes. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
POD KILL	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:27:00 - [3] Thanks. i guess the gisti XL X type shield booster i got will come in handy.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:33:00 - [4] Actually, you'll probably want a capital shield booster anyway, instead of faction boosters. Can your gist-booster "pump" 640 shield/second ? And as for the cap usage... well, you can set up most of them to have enough cap to perma-boost while under loads of NOS and still not break a sweat. _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
AngryCanuk TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:50:00 - [5] Put 3 trimark armour rigs on a thanatos and you can get that sucker to 250000 armour. Doesnt matter what your in, thats a hell of alot of armour to eat through, even without a XL repper. Im going to love flying a carrier :D
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:52:00 - [6] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 21/12/2006 13:52:34 Originally by: POD KILL Thanks. i guess the gisti XL X type shield booster i got will come in handy. Put that on your carrier and i guarantee itll die fast. Originally by: AngryCanuk Put 3 trimark armour rigs on a thanatos and you can get that sucker to 250000 armour. Doesnt matter what your in, thats a hell of alot of armour to eat through, even without a XL repper. Im going to love flying a carrier :D Why not go for 3 capital reps running permanently instead? ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
AngryCanuk TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Why not go for 3 capital reps running permanently instead? why not do both? >:)
Altai Saker Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:26:00 - [8] Carriers are still not viable on the front lines because of their extreme immunity to EW. http://www.omniscient-order.com/
POD KILL	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 21/12/2006 13:52:34 Originally by: POD KILL Thanks. i guess the gisti XL X type shield booster i got will come in handy. Put that on your carrier and i guarantee itll die fast. Originally by: AngryCanuk Put 3 trimark armour rigs on a thanatos and you can get that sucker to 250000 armour. Doesnt matter what your in, thats a hell of alot of armour to eat through, even without a XL repper. Im going to love flying a carrier :D Why not go for 3 capital reps running permanently instead? Yea your Right. I guess its a good thing the guy who wil be flying my Carier has a full crystal set in his head.6400--> around 12500 thats Tank. Thanks for all the input.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:37:00 - [10] Capital shield booster is NOT affected by Crystal implant effects, sorry. You still get 6400 only per activation. _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Altai Saker Carriers are still not viable on the front lines because of their extreme immunity to EW. I think you mean Vulnerability. and how is a Carrier any more vulnerable to EW than a BS? -----
AngryCanuk TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:53:00 - [12] With 2 cap reppers and 3 armour rigs (giving 250k armour) a carrier would be able to be flown on the front lines. And be a good tank too. If its the thanatos, it could also give out some nice hurt to the enemy as well
POD KILL	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Akita T Capital shield booster is NOT affected by Crystal implant effects, sorry. You still get 6400 only per activation. WTF why not? Well do any implants help out? lol Maybe Halo.........
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Chronus26 on 21/12/2006 15:02:54 Edited by: Chronus26 on 21/12/2006 15:02:23 Originally by: AngryCanuk With 2 cap reppers and 3 armour rigs (giving 250k armour) a carrier would be able to be flown on the front lines. And be a good tank too. If its the thanatos, it could also give out some nice hurt to the enemy as well A sustainable tank is much more important than armor amount. You'd be alot better off fitting Cap recharge/capacity rigs to give yourself alot more overhead in recharge rate to allow for enemys with Nos. Carriers can be very sucessfully used on the front lines in small to mid scale engagments, bringing one on to a full scale fleet battlefield is a recipe for disaster. Originally by: POD KILL Originally by: Akita T Capital shield booster is NOT affected by Crystal implant effects, sorry. You still get 6400 only per activation. WTF why not? Well do any implants help out? lol Maybe Halo......... Slave, Snakes and Halo Implants will affect a Carrier because they affect the ship, not the moduels on it. Crystal implants not affecting Capital boosters is intentional, because It'd make capital sheild tanks close to unbreakable. -----
AngryCanuk TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: AngryCanuk With 2 cap reppers and 3 armour rigs (giving 250k armour) a carrier would be able to be flown on the front lines. And be a good tank too. If its the thanatos, it could also give out some nice hurt to the enemy as well A sustainable tank is much more important than armor amount. You'd be alot better off fitting Cap recharge/capacity rigs to give yourself alot more overhead in recharge rate to allow for enemys with Nos. Carriers can be very sucessfully used on the front lines in small to mid scale engagments, bringing one on to a full scale fleet battlefield is a recipe for disaster. Well even with the cap rigs (extra 30% for all 3?) it will not be enough for a Nos ship, or god forbid 2. With the extra armour it allows that extra time you dont need to use cap at all (for reppers) and lets ur fighters go after the nos ship for you.... It would take a 2 nos domis a heck of a long time to take down 250k armour. Also in large engagements -> give your fighters to your corpmates, but in medium engagements <20ships? id say take it to the front
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:24:00 - [16] Originally by: AngryCanuk Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: AngryCanuk With 2 cap reppers and 3 armour rigs (giving 250k armour) a carrier would be able to be flown on the front lines. And be a good tank too. If its the thanatos, it could also give out some nice hurt to the enemy as well A sustainable tank is much more important than armor amount. You'd be alot better off fitting Cap recharge/capacity rigs to give yourself alot more overhead in recharge rate to allow for enemys with Nos. Carriers can be very sucessfully used on the front lines in small to mid scale engagments, bringing one on to a full scale fleet battlefield is a recipe for disaster. Well even with the cap rigs (extra 30% for all 3?) it will not be enough for a Nos ship, or god forbid 2. With the extra armour it allows that extra time you dont need to use cap at all (for reppers) and lets ur fighters go after the nos ship for you.... It would take a 2 nos domis a heck of a long time to take down 250k armour. Also in large engagements -> give your fighters to your corpmates, but in medium engagements <20ships? id say take it to the front Here is what I think is correct maths: Setup: 4x Cap Recharger II 2x Cap Control Rig II 1x Cap Control Rig I Related Skills: Energy Systems Operation 5 Energy Managment 5 Capital Repair Systems 4 Cap Need/s = 207 Cap Regen/s = 319 Heavy Diminishing = -10 cap/s 'Spare' Cap regen = 319-207 = 112 cap/s Sustainable NOSes = 11.2 Thats more than 2 NOSdomis. Not to mention your cap recharge will mean your cap lasts a very long time if you do get more NOS on you. -----
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:35:00 - [17] afaik, bob have been waving around their peen-ships(avatar and wyvern) for quite a bit now... ------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
Noriath	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:46:00 - [18] The main reason why Capital ships are not front worthy, no matter how much HP you give them is because there is no way for them to get out of a fight they are going to lose. More HP might mean that it takes longer for you to die, but in Eve you can get stuck in a situation where you know you lost the fight very quickly, and you're just waiting for the inevitable explosion. For a carrier there is no way out of this, it can't warp anywhere fast, it can be scrambled, it can't jump while using its repairers... On top of that there is the whole problem with not being able to jump through gates. Carriers could very well fight on the front in small gang combat, but small gang combat is highly mobile, often spans multiple systems - simply nothing a capital ship can keep up with. In fights that stay in a single system you usually are dealing with pretty big groups of 30+ ships, which is plenty enough to kill a capital ship very fast. Capital ships are very powerful, but they just have such limited potential to escape from a fight they can't win that the risk that you end up in one is too high to risk your ship by exposing it to the enemy frequently.
Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.21 16:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Outa Rileau afaik, bob have been waving around their peen-ships(avatar and wyvern) for quite a bit now... Don't forget our Nyx! Sure we've got a Hel and Aeon lying around here somewhere as well... ¼_¼ --- Wave of Mutilation 2
AngryCanuk TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.21 16:02:00 - [20] Edited by: AngryCanuk on 21/12/2006 16:09:23 1 nos domi nomally has 8 noss on it, so if you had 3, ud be screwed. Also factor in the cap needed for the repper, and ud probably start to get worried about not having enough cap. I dunno i like the idea of having the ability of having a passive tank, so i dont need to worry about the all to common NOS ships.....meh maybe its just me
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.12.21 16:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Chronus26 on 21/12/2006 16:12:59 Originally by: AngryCanuk Edited by: AngryCanuk on 21/12/2006 16:09:23 1 nos domi nomally has 8 noss on it, so if you had 3, ud be screwed. Also factor in the cap needed for the repper, and ud probably start to get worried about not having enough cap. I dunno i like the idea of having the ability of having a passive tank, so i dont need to worry about the all to common NOS ships.....meh maybe its just me 8 Heavy nos on a ship with only 6 high slots? Last time I tried to fit one (a long time ago mind you) max heavy nos you could get to fit with a reasonable tank was 4. And my calculations factord in the Cap need of 2 Capital reppers, 3 hardners and a sensor booster. EDIT: I've really managed to de-rail this thread haven't I... -----
AngryCanuk TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.21 16:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Chronus26 Edited by: Chronus26 on 21/12/2006 16:12:59 Originally by: AngryCanuk Edited by: AngryCanuk on 21/12/2006 16:09:23 1 nos domi nomally has 8 noss on it, so if you had 3, ud be screwed. Also factor in the cap needed for the repper, and ud probably start to get worried about not having enough cap. I dunno i like the idea of having the ability of having a passive tank, so i dont need to worry about the all to common NOS ships.....meh maybe its just me 8 Heavy nos on a ship with only 6 high slots? Last time I tried to fit one (a long time ago mind you) max heavy nos you could get to fit with a reasonable tank was 4. And my calculations factord in the Cap need of 2 Capital reppers, 3 hardners and a sensor booster. EDIT: I've really managed to de-rail this thread haven't I... Yea sorry my mistake i ment 2 nos domis normally have 8 nos :\
Ange1 Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:07:00 - [23] Have a look at The Establishments killboard this week for an answer to your question The Establishment is at your service...
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:23:00 - [24] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 21/12/2006 20:25:29 Carrier damage comes from fighters (like your actually going to get cap weapons to hit a non cap ship) and since they can warp on their own there is NO reason to have a carrier on the front lines. I suppose if you WANT to risk losing it sure go ahead, but i would prefer to keep it back running gang warfare modules and launching fighters to the front lines. If a battleship is in danger warp it to the carrier and repair it with a remote repairer then warp it back. I know motherships can hold ships (fitted ones too) so people can warp back to it in their pod and get a new ship to rejoin the battle. I would definitly keep a mothership back and use it as sort of a mobile station, keep ammo and everything there so your fleet never has to actually go anywhere to resupply and rearm.
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:32:00 - [25] Ive been wondering for a while what the actual use of a carrier is in a 0.0 system where you could just as well assign your fighters to someone else. If setup for NOSing it looses quite abit of dps doesnt it, and it still only got enough NOS power of a standard battleships. I could see how a group of carriers repairing each other could be nice but with their vulnerability to EW im not sure how well that would work either. So is the only real use of a carrier on the frontlines to draw fire and tank?
Mutant Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Cividari Ive been wondering for a while what the actual use of a carrier is in a 0.0 system where you could just as well assign your fighters to someone else. If setup for NOSing it looses quite abit of dps doesnt it, and it still only got enough NOS power of a standard battleships. I could see how a group of carriers repairing each other could be nice but with their vulnerability to EW im not sure how well that would work either. So is the only real use of a carrier on the frontlines to draw fire and tank? Why do you lose DPS if you fit NOS?You cant fit any weapons onto a Carrier/Mothership.
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:39:00 - [27] NOSs means less room for those +1 drone thingys.
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Mutant Caldari Originally by: Cividari Ive been wondering for a while what the actual use of a carrier is in a 0.0 system where you could just as well assign your fighters to someone else. If setup for NOSing it looses quite abit of dps doesnt it, and it still only got enough NOS power of a standard battleships. I could see how a group of carriers repairing each other could be nice but with their vulnerability to EW im not sure how well that would work either. So is the only real use of a carrier on the frontlines to draw fire and tank? Why do you lose DPS if you fit NOS?You cant fit any weapons onto a Carrier/Mothership. You fit Drone Control Units in the highs, they allow you to control one more fighter per unit. So yeah, fitting nos does mean you lose out on DPS. -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Cividari NOSs means less room for those +1 drone thingys. They are highly overrated. - EVE is sick.
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Cividari NOSs means less room for those +1 drone thingys. They are highly overrated. How come? Dont they add what should be equal to 10% (or more) dps each? I havent actualy finished the skills for my carrier yet but the differance between 10 and 15 fighters seem quite big.

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