EVE Search - Give missiles some speed!

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Give missiles some speed!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:55:00 - [1] Edited by: Tohmu Blackwing on 22/12/2006 07:04:40 Can you make missiles go a little faster, please? Missiles are VERY difficult (and I am being diplomatic to avoid a lot of name calling) to use in fleet settings. They are great on smaller ships but try using a Raven in fleet ops and you will quickly see how ineffective they are. The problem: they are unreasonably slow. Fleet battles today consist of sniping teams that engage at extreme ranges. I can reach that far with my torpedoes (but ONLY with my torpedoes)à butà it will take me 25 seconds to land the first volley. WTF??!! Ok, I could get into some basic ballistic science, and how the insta-pwn rail guns and projectiles (ESPECIALLY the projectiles) that can reach out at 250kms in a fraction of a second are simply beyond being reasonable. I could point out that this is about 10% of the speed of lightà but I wontà Soà if fleet engagements are to be held at 250kms with insta-pwn guns û then what role can missiles really play in fleet ops? Oh yesà we are supposed to shoot at the SECONDARY target designated by the FCà ya, rightà. Nothing like relegating all missile users to being back seat participants in fleet ops. Secondary targetà hmmmà ya.. 25 seconds is still an improbably long time for us to have any real use to fleet. A smart pilot can SEE the missiles heading for them and simply warp out (always pre-align, m-kay?) when they are only seconds from hitting him. Someone please tell me how this is a balanced form of game play for one of the major weapon platforms in the gameà? Ok û so here is the problem. Rail guns and projectiles are capable of 10% of the speed of light for the speed of their rounds. That is simply unbelievableà Missiles, however, which have a CONSTANT THRUST are limited to a CONSTANT SPEED û and are about 20 times slower than turrets. Basic physicsà constant thrust means constant accelerationà That means they should be going FASTER at the end of their burn time than at the beginning û especially in the near-frictionless vacuum of space. Here is what I would like to see: Make missiles ACCELERATE! Want to keep the ranges the same? Then decrease the ôburn timeö on missiles (how long they will fly). 25 seconds to land a single shot in PvP à come on CCP, that isnÆt realistic or reasonableà Butà if missiles continue to accelerate for the duration of their burn time, then at the end of that 230km+ flight, your torp is moving pretty damn fast. I was thinking something like a maximum burn time for ALL missiles of 8-12 seconds. This is still MUCH slower than turrets, but it gives missiles a place in fleet ops again. Soà get rid of the velocity rating on the missiles and swap in an ACCELERATION rating instead. Soà if your acceleration is 3000 m/s then it looks something like this: time.....distance (m)...speed 1...........3,000.........3,000 2...........9,000.........6,000 3..........18,000.........9,000 4..........30,000........12,000 5..........45,000........15,000 6..........63,000........18,000 7..........84,000........21,000 8..........108,000.......24,000 9..........135,000.......27,000 10........165,000.......30,000 11........198,000.......33,000 12........234,000.......36,000 13........273,000.......39,000 14........315,000.......42,000 15........360,000.......45,000 If the math is wrongà oopsà but you get the idea. What I was aiming at was a maximum time to target that is less than HALF of the current time for torpedoes. You could modify the acceleration based on the type of missileà cruises are faster, heavies are slowerà Againà for those of you who donÆt like to read it allà I AM NOT SUGGESTING A RANGE INCREASE for missiles. If missiles now go faster, great, just reduce the total time that they will flyà This gives missiles a role that could be every bit as equal and important in fleet ops as all the other weapon platforms.
Tepi Agd	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:04:00 - [2] agreed if you make my projectiles hit everytime _
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:07:00 - [3] Originally by: Tepi Agd agreed if you make my projectiles hit everytime You still get insta-pwn. What more do you want? Isnt it good enough to actually LET MISSLES PLAY A ROLE, or should those of us who chose missiles be forced to retrain? Yes, you dont hit all the time - but you still hit. Right now, at 250kms - most missiles dont even get to their target. Tell me how that is fair and balanced?
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:09:00 - [4] Edited by: La Tortura on 22/12/2006 07:09:55 Edited by: La Tortura on 22/12/2006 07:09:18 funny post :) what about this, mate? time.....distance (m)...speed........damage multiplier 1............3,000.........3,000........1 2............9,000.........6,000........1 3...........18,000.........9,000........1 4...........30,000........12,000......0.75 5...........45,000........15,000.......0.5 6...........63,000........18,000......0.35 7...........84,000........21,000......0.25 8...........108,000.......24,000......0.2 9...........135,000.......27,000......0.1 10.........165,000.......30,000......0.08 11.........198,000.......33,000......0.06 12.........234,000.......36,000......0.045 13.........273,000.......39,000......0.035 14.........315,000.......42,000.......0.02 15.........360,000.......45,000......0.01 -- ignorance is bliss
KillinVillin	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:11:00 - [5] You want pve and pvp, grow up and think about somone other than yourself.
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:12:00 - [6] Originally by: Tohmu Blackwing or should those of us who chose missiles be forced to retrain? No, of course not. It's those who trained guns should be forced to retrain. Missile users are, like, godlike creatures. -- ignorance is bliss
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:13:00 - [7] Why? Do you want to keep missiles out of fleet ops? (except small missiles?) Why the damage reduction? You still hit first. If it proved to be unbalancing, then I would favor an increase in the explosion radius - but only if CCP can prove that it was "unbalancing". Right now the game is heavily unbalanced. Missiles are nearly useless at fleet ranges.
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Tohmu Blackwing Why? Do you want to keep missiles out of fleet ops? (except small missiles?) Why the damage reduction? You still hit first. If it proved to be unbalancing, then I would favor an increase in the explosion radius - but only if CCP can prove that it was "unbalancing". Right now the game is heavily unbalanced. Missiles are nearly useless at fleet ranges. Ok, you're absolutelly right. If you want so, let's reverse damage reduction backward. So you will hit for 0.01 at close ranges and for 1 at 200 km. -- ignorance is bliss
Whalesaver mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:18:00 - [9] Whether you agree with the OP or not, constructive responses would be appreciated. He has a point about missile uses in fleet combat, although the introduction of the tier 3 rail platform dilutes his case, it's not a huge step to train large hyrbid V to get those 425's. The quality of the responses however is poor, posting flames with alt's is the stuff of pre-teens, grow up. ----------------------- Doesn't shoot first Will ask questions later And enjoys a nice cup of tea
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Whalesaver The quality of the responses however is poor, posting flames with alt's is the stuff of pre-teens, grow up. Post with your main. -- ignorance is bliss
Draqun Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Whalesaver posting flames with alt's is the stuff of pre-teens, grow up. the op used his Alt but his point is still valid, missle boats are basicaly PvE machines that are all but useless in a fleet action.
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:27:00 - [12] what about drones? -- ignorance is bliss
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:30:00 - [13] Yes, this is my alt. For good reason. I don't want to have to deal with this in-game. This is a forum. That is what a forum is for. I appreciate a good debate, but if you really don't have a constructive argument to my post, please go flame elsewhere. I really think it is time we had a debate on this issue. I do not see much of a role (if any) for current fleet ops for missiles. This NEEDS to be addressed.
Calderio Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:30:00 - [14] all i see is dirka dirka dirka. why dont you train missle bombardment and missle projection. missles arnt supposed to be insta hitting. try shooting at support or secondary targets while insta hitting ships take out primarys. rwar sig Listen to me on bob radio 00:00 eve time every friday and saturday http://stream1.bobonair.com:8000/listen-broadband.aac.m3u or go to www.bobonair.com
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Whalesaver Whether you agree with the OP or not, constructive responses would be appreciated. He has a point about missile uses in fleet combat, although the introduction of the tier 3 rail platform dilutes his case, it's not a huge step to train large hyrbid V to get those 425's. The quality of the responses however is poor, posting flames with alt's is the stuff of pre-teens, grow up. Thanks for the troll-bashing. I appreciate that you might disagree with me. But I don't think the solution to this problem is for me (and many, many others) to retrain to 425s. Dont forget, guns are not like missiles, they REQUIRE the support skills to make them work effectively. So it is a lot more than just one skill path that needs to be re-trained. Besides... that is a pretty good indication that something IS unbalanced when the game forces a character to completely re-train to be useful in PvP.
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Calderio all i see is dirka dirka dirka. why dont you train missle bombardment and missle projection. missles arnt supposed to be insta hitting. try shooting at support or secondary targets while insta hitting ships take out primarys. Both trained to 4. I can take them to 5 - and will - but ... this still doesnt address the question ... 25 seconds to target at fleet ranges - OR force the pilot to engage at suicidally close ranges. Oh, yes... the secondary target argument... again... This is not a solution, it is a workaround to a problem. Besides, he can SEE the missiles coming and warp before they ever land. Being unable to hit a target means the weapon platform does not work in PvP.
Draqun Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Calderio all i see is dirka dirka dirka. why dont you train missle bombardment and missle projection. missles arnt supposed to be insta hitting. try shooting at support or secondary targets while insta hitting ships take out primarys. the problem is the math, for the cost of his boat vs a rail boat which is the bigger waist of ISK, the Slow hitter that has to take out secondary targets or the instant hitter that gets to take out the other sides primarys? But then as a Freind of mine said, Someones got to be the Ranger. . . (sorry old Zec Joke)
Yurii Chan	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:41:00 - [18] wait, fleets are the only type of pvp in this game? well this might sound flamey but try to take it with a grain of salt... how bout you actually run your role, have someone in a covops or whatever warp dead middle of enemy fleet and then your missile boats will have an advantage being in close proximity to a bunch of snipers. then just unleash and laugh as they have trouble tracking your fat piece of metal. in all seriousness. fleet is overrated and if you really want fleet, well you just have to train a little gunnery, that doesnt mean that the game is unbalanced. after all, why would CCP give caldari a pure gunboat if you werent supposed to train some hybrids?!
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:44:00 - [19] Each weapon has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Missiles already have no tracking and consume no capacitor when fired. This is offset by their low dps and travel time. Missiles are also the easiest weapon to vary damage type with, being able to focus all of their damage into one type.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:45:00 - [20] lol, Oh I'm glad i'm back on these boards Caldari whiners make my day ! In short to the Op... NO. Missiles allready go crazy speeds compared to what they used too. If your cruise missiles could get to the target in a fleet battle in a quick timeframe, ie. allmost instant you would completely destroy ANY point in there being gunboats on the field. DPS of missiles at RANGE is far greater than ANY gunboat once that first missile hits. So NO. They're two very different weapon system, Live with it, Or buy a Rokh Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Tohmu Blackwing Originally by: Whalesaver Whether you agree with the OP or not, constructive responses would be appreciated. He has a point about missile uses in fleet combat, although the introduction of the tier 3 rail platform dilutes his case, it's not a huge step to train large hyrbid V to get those 425's. The quality of the responses however is poor, posting flames with alt's is the stuff of pre-teens, grow up. Thanks for the troll-bashing. I appreciate that you might disagree with me. But I don't think the solution to this problem is for me (and many, many others) to retrain to 425s. Dont forget, guns are not like missiles, they REQUIRE the support skills to make them work effectively. So it is a lot more than just one skill path that needs to be re-trained. Besides... that is a pretty good indication that something IS unbalanced when the game forces a character to completely re-train to be useful in PvP. Answered it all by yourself....btw, see sig Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
Terraform Gallente Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:49:00 - [22] Seriously. the last thing needed is a boost to missiles. They are finally beginning to be equal to the rest of the eve-weaponry. Just because you don't get insta-pwnage does not mean they are useless in fleetbattles or anywhere else. Stop whining out your own small issues whenever you lose a fight, if people would just try to figure out ways to solve the issues themselves instead of shouting BOOST MY SHIP/WEAPONS/MODULES/BONUSES every freaking time. every weaponsystems has disadvantages, don't even get me started on blasters. Stop whining and go back into your hole, kthxbye!
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:50:00 - [23] In the old days I would have jumped right in at the argument for Missiles and how they suck. However, this is a new me, I have gone out and trained Gunnery Skills for all Hybrid weapons to Specialisation L4, now I am working on training all other Gunnery Support skills to L5. Missiles used to be uber, not anymore, they are indeed pretty useless in fleet ops, but thats why CCP gave us guns. So, I guess, good luck guys and have fun arguing. I still use missiles for PVE and an ocasional "bonehead manuever" when I engage a vampiristic Ishtar w/o thinking, in my Cerberus.
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:55:00 - [24] well, now semi-seriuos answer. Let's give damage multiplicator for cruise missiles 0.01 at 3 km and 1 at 170 km, with 0.5 damage reduction at 85km. And reversed modificator for torpedoes - 1 at 3 km and 0.01 at 100 km. Now a bit of offtop about trolling. In discussions responses mustn't be much smarter than the initial post. As if the op has written a stupid post he wont understand smart responses anyway. Moreover, posting with faceless alt means that the poster himself is ashamed by his own post and himself. That's applied not just to that particular post, but as general rule as well. Think about it. -- ignorance is bliss
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Terraform Seriously. the last thing needed is a boost to missiles. They are finally beginning to be equal to the rest of the eve-weaponry. Just because you don't get insta-pwnage does not mean they are useless in fleetbattles or anywhere else. Stop whining out your own small issues whenever you lose a fight, if people would just try to figure out ways to solve the issues themselves instead of shouting BOOST MY SHIP/WEAPONS/MODULES/BONUSES every freaking time. every weaponsystems has disadvantages, don't even get me started on blasters. Stop whining and go back into your hole, kthxbye! I love the artards in this game. A constructive debate is flamed ruthlessly. First - This isnt a whine. It is a debate. Try to keep it as such or stay out, kxthxbye. Second, no one is suggesting instantpwnage for missiles. But pls try to tell me that missiles play a significant role in PvP at the fleet level. They dont. You know it. Unless you are playing a BOB/ASCN blob fest where there will be so much lag and so many targets that you just MIGHT get to come into play on an equal footing. Not hitting your target means you are useless. If the fight is over before you missiles land - or the target sees it coming and just runs... then you arent hitting AT ALL... no need for transversal or any other turret based factors...
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:56:00 - [26] Everyone (especially the ppl using them) *****ed and moaned the last time they got a MASSIVE speed increase...why would they want another one? ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:57:00 - [27] Originally by: La Tortura well, now semi-seriuos answer. Let's give damage multiplicator for cruise missiles 0.01 at 3 km and 1 at 170 km, with 0.5 damage reduction at 85km. And reversed modificator for torpedoes - 1 at 3 km and 0.01 at 100 km. Now a bit of offtop about trolling. In discussions responses mustn't be much smarter than the initial post. As if the op has written a stupid post he wont understand smart responses anyway. Moreover, posting with faceless alt means that the poster himself is ashamed by his own post and himself. That's applied not just to that particular post, but as general rule as well. Think about it. Nope. I just don't want to have to deal with evemails from ppl like you in game. I wanted to start a serious debate on this. I guess this isnt possible for many ppl who want to make sure that missiles stay as PVE weapons. Gotta run for the weekend. I am sure the flaming will continue. Too bad, this could have been an interesting debate.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.22 08:00:00 - [28] I like outrunning torps in my crow. Originally by: Crumplecorn Wow, CCP make a change that eliminates whines and there are whines about the lack of whines.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.22 08:10:00 - [29] The day you get a volly of torps on a BC or Cruiser with tp on you, will be the day when you will think that missiles are overpowered. the thing is, missiles are perfect atm. I rather see rof bonuses on the cerb than range but hey thats me. leave missiles alone.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.22 08:10:00 - [30] Use the right tool for the job. Oh wait. That'd force you to swap skills, train another weapon type and maybe even to jump into another ship. If your proposed change would not break the balance by massively overpowering Caldari ships in PvE even more, I might consider it a nice way to boost Minmatar ships. Hint: Missiles just got a massive speed boost - along with quite a few skills. That's why defenders are so useless until you're an NPC. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.