| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
   |
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:54:00 -
[1]
I've noticed the price of most of the HAC's in major hub systems is crashing, by as much as 50%.
Do we think this is a long-term trend, or short-term blip?
What might the causes be? Invention? New BC's? New BPO seedings (wouldnt have thought those would be coming out of production yet)?
Interested in any perspectives on this - especially from HAC BPO owners themselves, how do they feel right now?
-------------
Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
|
Ichabod Crane
LFC
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:56:00 -
[2]
Its not a crash, its just supply starting to meet demand.
-
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:56:00 -
[3]
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I prefer the new battle cruisers to hacs now. Mostly because of their dps, price and insurance options.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
El Marchetto
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 14:57:00 -
[4]
#1 reason - Tier2 BCs and BC overhaul 
|
X99 Z990
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:01:00 -
[5]
#1 reason - more t2 BPOs seeded*
|
Gothikia
Revelations Inc.
Shroud Of Darkness
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:03:00 -
[6]
suits me, hacs are my prefered ship type 
_________________________
 Originally by: L'Ron Hubbard
only the power of Xenu can fix EVE!
|
Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:04:00 -
[7]
tis the proverbial HAC bubble bursting. Currently HAC's simply arnt value for isk at their current prices and so prices will fall till people think they are cost effective again in preference to teir 2 bc's or command ships.
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:05:00 -
[8]
Zealots and Cerberuses are crashing because the Harbinger and Drake own them in the face 
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
X99 Z990
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:09:00 -
[9]
battlecruisers and command ships arent hacs.
|
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: X99 Z990
#1 reason - more t2 BPOs seeded*
I don't think this is true at all.
The new BPO's have only been recently seeded, and I expect are in production as we speak. Even if they were all put on very short production runs (unlikely) thats only a few extra units in the past few days - the price started falling before any could have come out of production.
-------------
Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
|
Kharakan
Amarr
Morticus Impendium
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: X99 Z990
battlecruisers and command ships arent hacs.
But they're owning the HACs for a fraction of the price (in the case of the BC's at least) so people who don't want to be robbed blind are buying them rather than hacs.
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari)
HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
|
El Marchetto
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:13:00 -
[12]
Stunning revelation 
Originally by: X99 Z990
battlecruisers and command ships arent hacs.
In other news, pilots with < billions in their wallet can now fly and equip BCs that work as well in gangs as HACs do, at a 75% price reduction
|
ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:18:00 -
[13]
It's a combination of all the reasons stated.
a) New BC's
b) New seeding
c) Invention
|
Doomed Predator
The Phoenix Rising
Distant Star Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:20:00 -
[14]
Was about time.The cerb cost 50 mill to make.But they were sold at 200 mill+.Looks like ccp did good this time 
---------------------------------------------
The first mod to edit my sig gets a keg of beer(2 pink kegs if its done by a female)
I don't like beer  - Serathu
Sera often mods in a dress, does that mean I can have his 2 kegs? - Cortes
|
James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:24:00 -
[15]
HACs are a lot worse off after revelations in pvp, compared to other ship types. It is especially the boosts to battlecruisers, including the introduction of the new tier 2 ones, that make life diffficult for HAC owners.
-----
|
Pinky Denmark
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:28:00 -
[16]
as CCP value the Hacs to about 20m isk they sure deserve to get plastered by tier2 BC's... 100-150m seems to be a fair price anyway
|
Sorja
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:45:00 -
[17]
I highly doubt new BPOs and especially Invention play any role in the HAC prices coming down, they've been coming down since Revelations got live.
A decent price for, let's say a Cerberus, is 70 millions which is alreay a 100% markup (they don't cost 50mill to make afaik).
For many who don't spend most of their live in front of the keyboard, a 200mill ship with 100mill in fittings is not worth flying.
____________________
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Roy Batty68
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
It's a combination of all the reasons stated.
a) New BC's
b) New seeding
c) Invention
By the sounds of it invention has squat all to do with it.
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
|
Jouno
Underground Revolution
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jouno on 26/12/2006 16:04:05
I think its mainly because more and more ppl are ready to fly recons and command ships witch are really more cost effective and better then hacs in most cases. I expect hac prices to drop even more except maybe the Vaga prices 
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
It's a combination of all the reasons stated.
a) New BC's
b) New seeding
c) Invention
LOL Invention.
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
IntegralHellsing
Gallente
The Raven Warriors
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:08:00 -
[21]
HAC? pfffff. Why would you need one?
Tier 2 BC can easily destroy some of the HAC.
------------------------------
|
NAP
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:20:00 -
[22]
Quote:
I've noticed the price of most of the HAC's in major hub systems is crashing, by as much as 50%.
Where's this happening? I visit major hubs sometimes, and I see Cerberus has fallen from 250m to 205m, Sacrilege from 90ish to 70m, Zealot from 170 to 145m. Where are the 50% discount HACs?
|
Shi Mun
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:32:00 -
[23]
well deimos' used to sell for 200+ mil each but now you can find them in most regions for 180-200mil, except in one particular region where they are going for (this is the cheapest i've seen) *130mil*. And its true, HAC prices are falling because they are being out performed in their role by more cost-effective ships.
---------------------------
HAHA! your jammers suck now! Oh wait whats happening to my scorpion... |
Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Karjala Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: NAP
Quote:
I've noticed the price of most of the HAC's in major hub systems is crashing, by as much as 50%.
Where's this happening? I visit major hubs sometimes, and I see Cerberus has fallen from 250m to 205m, Sacrilege from 90ish to 70m, Zealot from 170 to 145m. Where are the 50% discount HACs?
Well for example some Bobbit was selling something like 35 Zealots at 135M/piece at sell forums a few days ago (or was it yesterday, can't remember) and if you bought ten, you got a discount of 15% or so...look for them and you will find them.
-----
You are #27 in queue to see this signature. |
El Marchetto
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:49:00 -
[25]
I'm guessing this is whats happening:
Overhauled BCs and Tier2 BCs have very rapidly taken over as the mid-range PvP ships of choice.
The South (BoB MC LV etc) are hoarding HACs for a massive war with the North (D2 RAZOR IRON etc), who are also hoarding HACs for the same reason.
It is these 2 power blocs that are the T2 cartels, at least their industrial backbone encapsulates the vast mayority of most profitable T2 BPOs.
The remaining HACs that used to be leaked to the resellers have begun to dry up, and the resellers are getting very nervous about being stuck with loss making stocks.
Reseeded BPOs are not making their way into 'neutral' hands in sufficient numbers to crash the HAC market prices, although in the next 2-3 months we may see this occur.
In the meantime BCs continue to be the weapon of choice among the mayority of pilots who prefer to fly mid-sized ships.
Or something like that
|
turnschuh
Eye of God
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 17:13:00 -
[26]
1) new bc
2) wcs nerf
3) reseeding
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 17:56:00 -
[27]
scratch reseeding and especially invention from your lists.
new BCs are the only reason. those (stupid) drakes even had an effect on those (stupid) ravens.
reminds me - who allowed the drakes to become this overpowered?
|
Phrixus Zephyr
Yesodic Nomads Corp
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 18:04:00 -
[28]
Its not just HAC's, other ships have dropped in price too. (In The Forge anyway)
Ranis have gone from 15-16 to 11-12
Enyo's from 18-22 to 10-12
Originally by: Victor Ramirez
using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
|
Syrec
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 18:06:00 -
[29]
BCs are getting more popular.
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 18:11:00 -
[30]
We got HACs in numbers sitting bored in the market for around 2 weeks now. Befor Revelations you had to camp the market for hours to at least get a error message while trying to buy one.
The price drop is simply caused by tec 2 builders and resellers, who realize that ppl are not willing anymore to pay the prices they where used to. Thus the question should be: Why are ppl not willing to pay the prices anymore?
My guess is psychology. Ppl are expecting (or hope) that inventions will kick in january (we are still quite short on data interfaces) and prices go down to something reasonable.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
|
Dirtball
Kemono.
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:01:00 -
[31]
Basicly all the reseller salesmen margin trading bungholes are taking one up the ole highway. The t1 ships are more fun to fly anyway.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Dal Thrax
Caldari
House Of Troy
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
scratch reseeding and especially invention from your lists.
new BCs are the only reason. those (stupid) drakes even had an effect on those (stupid) ravens.
reminds me - who allowed the drakes to become this overpowered?
You do realize that in real life a BC CAN give a BS a run for its money and will pretty much PWN a cruiser (assuming we're talking ship types between Battle of Juteland and say Pearl Harbor).
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:24:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/12/2006 19:24:23
Originally by: Dal Thrax
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
scratch reseeding and especially invention from your lists.
new BCs are the only reason. those (stupid) drakes even had an effect on those (stupid) ravens.
reminds me - who allowed the drakes to become this overpowered?
You do realize that in real life a BC CAN give a BS a run for its money and will pretty much PWN a cruiser (assuming we're talking ship types between Battle of Juteland and say Pearl Harbor).
Originally by: Wikipedia
Battlecruisers were large warships of the first half of the 20th century first introduced by the British Royal Navy. They evolved from armoured cruisers and in terms of ship classification they occupy a grey area between cruisers and battleships. Generally, battlecruisers were similar in layout and armament to battleships but with significantly less armour allowing for gains in speed.
In real life, battlecruisers were ships with Battleship-sized guns but weaker armor.
In EVE, battlecruisers do not nearly equal the damage of a battleship.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
alfabit soup
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:24:00 -
[34]
Why do people always try to compare eve ship classes to irl ship classes? They aren't the same. Stop.
|
violator2k5
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:36:00 -
[35]
in my eyes the only thing this has to do with is the changes they made in revelations and the new bc's being able to move as they can and out dps any hac currently there so people will more then likely train more for them instead of hac's
it has nothing to do with invention and nothing to do with the new seeding
(invention isnt worth a squirt of ....)
(the bpos are still being seeded for those of you who dont know)
|
Shakuul
Caldari
The Imperial Commonwealth
The Sundering
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:58:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ichabod Crane
Its not a crash, its just supply starting to meet demand.
Supply always met demand; thats what determines market price and quantity. What we are seeing now is an outward supply shift. If you knew the exact rate of reseeding you could derive the demand curve for HACs.
Originally by: Hakera
tis the proverbial HAC bubble bursting. Currently HAC's simply arnt value for isk at their current prices and so prices will fall till people think they are cost effective again in preference to teir 2 bc's or command ships.
I wouldn't really call it a bubble, since I don't think demand is falling. A bubble is when an asset is overvalued (usually a stock or something) and then the price falls rapidly as everyone realizes its overvalued (think of the dot com bubble). In the case of HACs, as I said above, its just supply falling, as HAC producers undercut each other.
|
Shakuul
Caldari
The Imperial Commonwealth
The Sundering
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: violator2k5
in my eyes the only thing this has to do with is the changes they made in revelations and the new bc's being able to move as they can and out dps any hac currently there so people will more then likely train more for them instead of hac's
it has nothing to do with invention and nothing to do with the new seeding
(invention isnt worth a squirt of ....)
(the bpos are still being seeded for those of you who dont know)
Why would the price drop occur now instead of earlier? Does it take people that long to change their minds and think that bcs are better? I think HACs still out tank bcs by a lonshot.
|
Fenderson
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shakuul
Originally by: violator2k5
in my eyes the only thing this has to do with is the changes they made in revelations and the new bc's being able to move as they can and out dps any hac currently there so people will more then likely train more for them instead of hac's
it has nothing to do with invention and nothing to do with the new seeding
(invention isnt worth a squirt of ....)
(the bpos are still being seeded for those of you who dont know)
Why would the price drop occur now instead of earlier? Does it take people that long to change their minds and think that bcs are better? I think HACs still out tank bcs by a lonshot.
Its only been about a month since REV was released. Price drops take time. This is about as fast as i would have expected. Actually, given the usuelessness of invention atm i would have expected it to happen slower.
CHICKS DIG DREADS (and i DONT mean capital ships) |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
In real life, battlecruisers were ships with Battleship-sized guns but weaker armor.
Not exactly.
Britsh BCs had BS guns and cruiser armor.
German BCs had cruiser guns and BS armor.
But in either way, RL examples are rather meaningless for eve.
Originally by: Shakuul
Supply always met demand; thats what determines market price and quantity. What we are seeing now is an outward supply shift. If you knew the exact rate of reseeding you could derive the demand curve for HACs.
I think he was referring to supply getting more equal to demand, the differences between both getting less extreme.
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:09:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Aramendel
Not exactly.
Britsh BCs had BS guns and cruiser armor.
German BCs had cruiser guns and BS armor.
But in either way, RL examples are rather meaningless for eve.
Actually sounds interesting to me... I wouldnt mind seeing the races in Eve more different to eachother than they are now. But I guess any change to the way it works now will lead to Forum War III.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:14:00 -
[41]
Long term trend, or blip ?
LONG TERM.
Invention ?
NO WAY. Invention isn't worth diddly squat for HACs. It isn't worth even if the prices wouldn't had been droping.
New BPO seeding ?
NO WAY EITHER. You can't see much more HACs on sale, they just accumulated over the past month.
New BCs ?
RIGHT ON. One of the main reasons for the price crash.
Before, you really had no decent alternative other than command ships (and those take even MORE training on top of HAC training), but now you have a (much) lower SP, arguably better alternative to the formerly overpriced HACs.
I can only foresee a drop of HAC prices down to 70-90 mil or so in the "not so far" future.
Still well over 100% profit for one HAC compared to manufacture price, but no longer the 500% or 1000% insanity.
___
Drake vs Cerberus, about the same omni-tank with nearly the same gank (bit less range though), for a fraction of the cost. With rigs, a Drake beats a Cerberus in pretty much any aspect.
The only thing a Cerberus is better now is kin/therm specific tank, or anti-torp sigradius tank... or outranging the enemy.
Other than that, I'd take a Drake over a Cerberus any day.
And I can only suppose the WCS nerf (byes stabbabond) and the fact HACs are "uninsurable", compared to this new cheaper (and usually better) alternative makes HACs pretty much worthless at the old prices.
Add to that the skill needs for a HAC, and you'll see nobody with a brain is much to keen on getting a HAC anymore, so you can say the demand has indeed sharply dropped, you know, anvil-from-an-airplane-like drop.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Akita T
Long term trend, or blip ?
LONG TERM.
Invention ?
NO WAY. Invention isn't worth diddly squat for HACs. It isn't worth even if the prices wouldn't had been droping.
New BPO seeding ?
NO WAY EITHER. You can't see much more HACs on sale, they just accumulated over the past month.
New BCs ?
RIGHT ON. One of the main reasons for the price crash.
Before, you really had no decent alternative other than command ships (and those take even MORE training on top of HAC training), but now you have a (much) lower SP, arguably better alternative to the formerly overpriced HACs.
I can only foresee a drop of HAC prices down to 70-90 mil or so in the "not so far" future.
Still well over 100% profit for one HAC compared to manufacture price, but no longer the 500% or 1000% insanity.
Correct in every respect I would say, except that it's too early to predict the level that prices will drop to.
In the very long term (1-2 years), I would expect HAC prices to rise again as demand begins to outstrip even the increased supply created by the new seeding and the settled invention system.
At that point we should be due another round of BPO's, or a tweak in the drop rate of invention components.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 02:30:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Butter Dog
I've noticed the price of most of the HAC's in major hub systems is crashing, by as much as 50%.
Do we think this is a long-term trend, or short-term blip?
What might the causes be? Invention? New BC's? New BPO seedings (wouldnt have thought those would be coming out of production yet)?
Interested in any perspectives on this - especially from HAC BPO owners themselves, how do they feel right now?
The masses have finally finished their Command ship skills?
I doubt it's simply new BPOs, unless some people failed economics and are doing massive undercutting when it's not needed.
Invention sure as hell isn't a reason, because it's a total failure.
If anything, I'd say more people are using tier 2 BCs, others have trained for Command ships, which are simply better, and then you have a few more BPOs in play, which affect it some, but likely not THAT drastically.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 02:32:00 -
[44]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
It's a combination of all the reasons stated.
a) New BC's
b) New seeding
c) Invention
Invention is in no way affecting T2 HAC prices.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Coasterbrian
Gekidoku
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 02:39:00 -
[45]
People are finishing training for Command ships. Command ships are better than HACs in almost every way, and with the agility boost in Kali they are evil ships.
The new BCs affect it some as well, because myrmidon > ishtar, drake > cerb, and harbinger > zealot (or so I've been told). Oh, and the Vaga sucks after the WCS nerf.
----------
I say what I mean, but I don't always mean what I say. |
Mortuus
Minmatar
Just-fun
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 03:29:00 -
[46]
Because for much less you can get a better ship for almost any type of combat, the tier 2 Battlecruiser.
Why fly a HAC? I have no idea.
Ran into a Rapier and a Cerb with my Hurricane and a buddy in a Brutix. Tore both of them apart without either of our tanks getting dented.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Joe
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 03:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Mortuus
Why fly a HAC? I have no idea.
The right tool for the right job. I quite like my Eagle, and it does the job its designed for pretty well. A BC wont be replacing it anytime soon.
Ofcourse i dont treat my ships like they're soloPwnMobiles, and im not under any delusions that every engagement is 1v1. The arguement that people should go out and buy BC now becuase they're > all is abit silly imho.
Pe0w |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
New Eve Order
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 04:04:00 -
[48]
invetnion isnt doing anything right now
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
J Valkor
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 04:18:00 -
[49]
Tier 2 BC's are a cheap alternative. At the same time, BC pilots who have been at it for a while are starting to get command ships. The nighthawk is still (last time I checked) cheaper then a Cerberus.
This adjustment has been a long time coming and thank god it has.
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 05:40:00 -
[50]
The OP doesnt understand the concept of "crash" with respect to markets.
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
Lamic Tarvalla
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 06:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I prefer the new battle cruisers to hacs now. Mostly because of their dps, price and insurance options.
Yeap I'm with you on that. More fun to fly, cheaper to loose, and speaking of the Myrmidon sexier looking ships.
|
Anatolius
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 06:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Anatolius on 27/12/2006 06:26:17
Originally by: Aramendel
Not exactly.
Britsh BCs had BS guns and cruiser armor.
German BCs had cruiser guns and BS armor.
But in either way, RL examples are rather meaningless for eve.
So... Harbinger (factoring in tasty bonuses) vs. Prophecy. 
In real life, battleships weren't slow hulking behemoths. They had quite decent speed. Even during the age of sail, a ship of the line could easily run down most things under its rate. (Given the weather gauge, proper wind and tide, all that jazz.)
In real life, battleships mounted more than battleship class weapons.
In real life, frigates don't have warp scramblers.
In real life, we don't have space-based vehicles.
In real life, when we do have space-based vehicles, any government that thinks in blue-water naval terms is going to get its arse handed to it by any government that realizes space != ocean.
In real life, private citizens can't generally own modern-day military warships complete with current-generation armaments.
Bringing real life to EVE will make EVE suck horribly. That about cover it?
(I still want larger ships to be faster, though. )
TBH, I have no problem with a higher ship class beating the living snot out of anything under it in a direct firefight. That is, barring surprise, shady tactics like ECM/NOS, people doing stupid things like not mounting anti-frigate weaponry (c'mon, drones even!). s'how it should be. Expensive toys are expensive toys. Just because you spent three bajillion ISK on it doesn't mean it should be a solo wtfpwnmobile.
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
VossKarr
Caldari
The 6th Directorate
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 06:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shi Mun
HAC prices are falling because they are being out performed in their role by more cost-effective ships.
...that are fully insurable, more readily available and easily manufacturable, if you're so inclined, to boot. Win-Win!
|
Alliaanna Dalaii
Gallente
Does Not Compute
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 07:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Zealots and Cerberuses are crashing because the Harbinger and Drake own them in the face
Depends if you suck with a Zealot I guesse
Alliaanna
DNC Treasure Hunt !!
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 08:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
a) New BC's
This is pretty much the only factor. The new BCs (and BCs in general, now that they have been boosted) give much better bang for the buck, and can give a HAC a serious fight in a 1-on-1 -- yes, depends on ship, fittings and pilot of course.
Used to be that HACs were the only choice if you wanted a heavy hitter that isn't a battleship. Isn't anymore, and you're starting to see the result in the price drops -- which are the result of less demand, as less people are willing to pay silly prices for hacs.
As an added (small) factor, I'd add the fact that more people are starting to have command ship skills, and those cost less than HACs at the moment and can do much of the same things.
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
b) New seeding
Nah. Any new BPOs people might have gotten via that are still in research (ME improvement). No effect on markets yet.
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
c) Invention
Absolutely not. If you have read what people have written about the state of invention nowadays, you'll know that it's a waste of time at the moment. Maybe some day, but now? Njet.
|
Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 08:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
as CCP value the Hacs to about 20m isk they sure deserve to get plastered by tier2 BC's... 100-150m seems to be a fair price anyway
You hit the nail on the head, im not sure how the base price is worked out by CCP (mins with 0me ?) but Evemon will tell you that hacs are between 17-27mil base price, given that the most you'll pay for pretty much any t1 cruiser is 7 mil this seems pretty reasonable given their capabilitys.
If you own a HAC BPO its not certain free money (unless you sell it) because of ore prices and the like... but if you're a crazy carebear you can make them and sell them for less than this with research... so we are seeing ships with a possible production cost of less than 25mil selling for 200mil or so.... whats happened is simply a balance to bring things back in line with other ships.... and hopefully the market will reflect this more and more as time goes on!
*prays for REASONABLY priced ishkurs and ishtars*
 |
Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 08:21:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dal Thrax
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
scratch reseeding and especially invention from your lists.
new BCs are the only reason. those (stupid) drakes even had an effect on those (stupid) ravens.
reminds me - who allowed the drakes to become this overpowered?
You do realize that in real life a BC CAN give a BS a run for its money and will pretty much PWN a cruiser (assuming we're talking ship types between Battle of Juteland and say Pearl Harbor).
You do realize that in real life we dont have uber space ships that can pwnerate planets and other uber space ships with their awesome lazors and ****. (assuming you play eve).
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 08:28:00 -
[58]
I used to fly Ishtars a lot back when they were in the 40-50 mil price range and everyone thought they were crap.
Don't fly them much anymore, at least not in pvp; 200mil is just too much for that ship, nice as it is. If they were to drop below 100mil again I might consider them, but as is the Astarte, Eos and the t1 bcs offer a much better deal atm.
|
Contralto
Binary Fringe inc
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 08:51:00 -
[59]
Just checked the Verge Vendor market... 1 Ishtar going for 160 mill, 2 more for 190 mill.
|
Midshipman
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 09:46:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Anatolius
In real life, battleships weren't slow hulking behemoths. They had quite decent speed. Even during the age of sail, a ship of the line could easily run down most things under its rate. (Given the weather gauge, proper wind and tide, all that jazz.
First of all, why even bring up sailing vessels. Secondly, with the exception of the Iowa class, most battleships had cruising speeds of 29 knots or less. Meanwhile, most cruisers and many destroyers could do 31+ knots.
Quote:
In real life, battleships mounted more than battleship class weapons.
True, but what is stopping you from mounting smaller weapons on your Eve battleship? Drones could also be the equivilent of secondary armament.
Quote:
In real life, frigates don't have warp scramblers.
If you are refering to a smaller ship cutting off the escape of a larger ship, then you are wrong again. Torpedo firing destroyers have on several occasions forced battleships to alter their course at key points in major battles.
I won't pick on the rest of your post because it starts shooting off into ridiculous tangents. In the future, please don't try tp draw comparisons in a subject that you obviously know nothing about.
|
SuperJyinn
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 09:58:00 -
[61]
I predict that prices on all ships will continue to drop. Less ships are getting destroyed with warp to zero so the supply of ships being produced will exceed demand.
|
Ralara
Caldari
Reunited
O X I D E
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 10:23:00 -
[62]
Originally by: El Marchetto
The South (BoB MC LV etc) are hoarding HACs for a massive war with the North (D2 RAZOR IRON etc), who are also hoarding HACs for the same reason.
We don't need to hoard HACs, little does BoB know, but the North actually has 58 titans already built.
--
Yeah, so Caldari suck at close range. Pity you'll never get there.
These posts represent those of my corp or alliance. These do reflect official alliance or corp views
This is not a dis |
Majutsu
Caldari
S.Y.N.D
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 10:34:00 -
[63]
Eagles have gone up over the last 2 weeks where I live 
Caldari Gunboat Pilot
|
Hehulk
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 10:39:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Majutsu
Eagles have gone up over the last 2 weeks where I live
Really? I saw a few in metropolis last night for 110 mil (give or take)
----------
It's great being minmatar, ain't it |
KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 10:43:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Midshipman
Eductaed Opinion
Pwned tbh
KIA EVE Home
|
Majutsu
Caldari
S.Y.N.D
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 10:55:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Hehulk
Originally by: Majutsu
Eagles have gone up over the last 2 weeks where I live
Really? I saw a few in metropolis last night for 110 mil (give or take)
LOL
Well, they're up to 93/94 mill
They were at 85 for quite a while
Metropolis eh? Hmmmm
Caldari Gunboat Pilot
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 11:04:00 -
[67]
Joe Newbie goes to town.
He sees only one takeaway, which charges 200mil isk per kebab. He has no choice but to buy kebabs.
Another takeaway opens up next door, selling burgers at 50mil isk.
Joe used to buy the kebabs, and although he likes the kebabs better, he decides to spend his money on burgers. He knows that at the end of the day, the kebab and the burger will end up down the toilet. Some people even think the burger is better than the kebab, but Joe relises that the burgershop is hurting the kebabshop.
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Malakai0
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:32:00 -
[68]
Here's a revalation of mine people seem to be missing (well except those who've been raking in rediculous profits off HAC sales):
HAC's SHOULD be way cheaper than they have been, 100m absolute max is fair. And why SHOULDNT hacs be able to be owned by tier II battlecruisers? The things are far slower and twice the size or more of hacs.
Hacs still rock, I fly and love eagles in fleets and gatecamps, but I've never flown a cerb due to rediculous overpricedness. Now I might actually start flying them in PVP (I wanna use the cerb as a fast close range heavy assault boat).
For all us alliance pvpers, this is nothing but good news. Means we're both gonna get to fly hacs in pvp way more often, and gonna get to loot their wrecks way more often (and more variety is good right?).
_________________________
Level 3 Member of Eye of God
|
Joe
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:45:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Joe used to buy the kebabs, and although he likes the kebabs better, he decides to spend his money on burgers. He knows that at the end of the day, the kebab and the burger will end up down the toilet. Some people even think the burger is better than the kebab, but Joe relises that the burgershop is hurting the kebabshop.
Here in South Oz they're called Yiros's, not kebabs, and becuase i prefer them over burgers id still save up and buy them. I dont care if the burgers cheaper.
The Yiros store can operate aslong as they keep producing a superior product. Having competetion making 2nd class food probably doesn't even bother them.
Pe0w |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
New Eve Order
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:29:00 -
[70]
prices are adjusting those that paid over the odds for the BPOs off the market are the only ones up in arms then again they had the profits now its time for some realistic pricing
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:38:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Midshipman
True, but what is stopping you from mounting smaller weapons on your Eve battleship? Drones could also be the equivilent of secondary armament.
Weapon space. In EVE a big BS class weapon takes as much space as a small frigate class weapon. From a "realistic" viewpoint you should be able to mount multiple small guns in the room normally occupied with one big gun.
Of cource it would utterly kill game balance, so it wouldn't be a good idea for eve. But it's not something "realistic".
|
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:44:00 -
[72]
Imo the reason is solely the new bc's and people starting to buy command ships, tho I think the new bc's are more effective then the command for the isk they cost. Invention is fubered, borked, whatever you wanna call it, it's a joke. But the new bc's rock.
Too bad that to fit a ship with tech 2 I will have to spend as much as I would pay for a cerb tho :(
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 13:48:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 27/12/2006 13:51:08
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 27/12/2006 13:49:34
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Joe used to buy the kebabs, and although he likes the kebabs better, he decides to spend his money on burgers. He knows that at the end of the day, the kebab and the burger will end up down the toilet. Some people even think the burger is better than the kebab, but Joe relises that the burgershop is hurting the kebabshop.
Here in South Oz they're called Yiros's, not kebabs, and becuase i prefer them over burgers id still save up and buy them. I dont care if the burgers cheaper.
The Yiros store can operate aslong as they keep producing a superior product. Having competetion making 2nd class food probably doesn't even bother them.
Making 2nd class food wont bother them, but it does mean that Joe Newbie who is going to pvp till shiploss, has another option. Most eve players look at value for money, and the new BC are value for money.
Rich PVPers just want the best, so they will probebly stick with hacs for now.
I say this as a HAC pilot and a BC pilot. If I can afford to throw away 300mil (HAC + t2 fitout) every hour then I would choose the hac. I can, however, afford to throw away a BC + t2 fitout.
Of course, the fact I own the BPO should not mean I am biased in any way. BC + t1 fitout is profit due to insurance for me, but thats another story
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
PirateShampoo
S.A.S
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:21:00 -
[74]
I'd say ur wrong, i just checked the market for jita and surrounding systems and there 50+ vagabounds for sale all going from 230-300 mill each so its not supply meeting demand its sellers and resellers still trying to line there pockets.
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:23:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 27/12/2006 15:24:56
Originally by: PirateShampoo
I'd say ur wrong, i just checked the market for jita and surrounding systems and there 50+ vagabounds for sale all going from 230-300 mill each so its not supply meeting demand its sellers and resellers still trying to line there pockets.
I know - Its excellent. Means more BC/BS sales at 30% margins for me.
Now ask yourself why there is 50+ vaga's stacked up? People not buying them?
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:24:00 -
[76]
Wait till bc get thier rigs on......
New NPC Region |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:29:00 -
[77]
Originally by: PirateShampoo
I'd say ur wrong, i just checked the market for jita and surrounding systems and there 50+ vagabounds for sale all going from 230-300 mill each so its not supply meeting demand its sellers and resellers still trying to line there pockets.
Lets see how long they sit on the market not being sold.
Not so long ago, you could not buy a Vagabond in Jita for love nor money.
-------------
Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
|
Thousand Fluffles
Off Balance Sheet Entity
|
Posted - 2006.12.29 03:27:00 -
[78]
I think the reasons are threefold...
- Tier 2 BC and even Tier 3 BS are giving high-SP pilots a few new toys to try out. Once the novelty wears off, some will no doubt return to HACs. Others may find they have more fun in a Tier 2 BC which performs the same except for agility, at 1/3 of the total cost.
- WCS nerf - people were willing to pay stupid prices for Vagabonds and Zealots because they knew they could pick their fights and run away from any fight that turned bad. Now that 2-4 WCS are not a viable option, many users no longer wish to run the increased risk.
- Recon cruisers and command ships are cheaper, and ever-increasing numbers of people are training the skills to fly them.
I sold my HACs at the peak of their value a while back. And I doubt it's a short-term blip, because the effects of any game change which give players greater choice are usually permanent.
|
Sgt Blade
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.29 04:11:00 -
[79]
either way, if this is long term then its all good whatever reason it is that HAC's wil go down in price and then more people can get a chance to fly one, there only a t2 cruiser but used to cost way more then t2 BC's and even fully fitted t2 bs's
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |