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Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 87	Posted - 2015.10.18 11:56:14 - [61] - Quote Aoife Fraoch wrote: Rather than quote everyone I will use this strawman: Convenient Strawman wrote: But if people can not play for free then it is terrible and not good, and this is a thing that needs to change and be addressed. Why? Seriously, please explain why when there is a robust market for PLEX the number of players using it to keep their accounts going versus those buying them in game for other reasons actually matters? In all these threads this never gets addressed. One more point, it is CCP who has been steadily increasing the utility of plex over time by linking it to other ingame items. Perhaps CCP are far more interested in increasing the lifetime value of their customers and ghe ingame value of PLEX to drive more out of game purchases? PLEX is not the only thing you can buy out of game. So I see nothing bad in limiting its uses. THAT would only change the balance between supply of game time and supply of cool stuff (skins?)
Aoife Fraoch Rabble Inc. 156	Posted - 2015.10.18 11:56:18 - [62] - Quote ArmyOfMe wrote: The problem here is that atm only a very little % of the plex ingame are actually on the market, so there is no way of knowing how many new plex CCP sells. So if the current plex speculators sit on large stockpiles of plex, they wont need to buy more plex from CCP anytime soon, and if that also causes a lack of player retention, then it does indeed hurt CCP as no new income happens. So unless we can actually see that current plex sale numbers from CCP are as high as they have used to be, then there is no reason to claim it wont hurt CCP. There is also no reason to claim that it is. I am also fairly certain that the speculators are not buying the majority of new PLEX for real money themselves somehow...
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 87	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:01:15 - [63] - Quote Aoife Fraoch wrote: ArmyOfMe wrote: The problem here is that atm only a very little % of the plex ingame are actually on the market, so there is no way of knowing how many new plex CCP sells. So if the current plex speculators sit on large stockpiles of plex, they wont need to buy more plex from CCP anytime soon, and if that also causes a lack of player retention, then it does indeed hurt CCP as no new income happens. So unless we can actually see that current plex sale numbers from CCP are as high as they have used to be, then there is no reason to claim it wont hurt CCP. There is also no reason to claim that it is. I am also fairly certain that the speculators are not buying the majority of new PLEX for real money themselves somehow... When I wanted to inject isk, I've sold my PLEX to a buy order most of the time. So I think that's how speculators get it. But... Really, don't you believe in some people going after the CCP's huge PLEX packs? I know at least some people can. Not the most pleasant subjects to speak to, but... they still exist and play games.
Aoife Fraoch Rabble Inc. 156	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:08:26 - [64] - Quote Shade Alidiana wrote: Aoife Fraoch wrote: Rather than quote everyone I will use this strawman: Convenient Strawman wrote: But if people can not play for free then it is terrible and not good, and this is a thing that needs to change and be addressed. Why? Seriously, please explain why when there is a robust market for PLEX the number of players using it to keep their accounts going versus those buying them in game for other reasons actually matters? In all these threads this never gets addressed. One more point, it is CCP who has been steadily increasing the utility of plex over time by linking it to other ingame items. Perhaps CCP are far more interested in increasing the lifetime value of their customers and ghe ingame value of PLEX to drive more out of game purchases? PLEX is not the only thing you can buy out of game. So I see nothing bad in limiting its uses. THAT would only change the balance between supply of game time and supply of cool stuff (skins?) This is a very very quick take on a dollar to AURUM exchange rate. It's based on a single PLEX price/$20 pack (yes I know there are external site sales, and pack pricing discounts): 2040350.004956629 19.9535000.0057 Looks like a PLEX on conversion nets CCP more per AURUM than buying AURUM. At least in this set of circumstances. Perhaps if they ended the PLEX to AURUM conversion pipeline the dollar price for AURUM might creep up? Would be useful to see what kind of a take up there has been for directly buying AURUM versus sourcing it from within EVE via PLEX.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25402	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:14:35 - [65] - Quote ArmyOfMe wrote: The problem here is that atm only a very little % of the plex ingame are actually on the market, so there is no way of knowing how many new plex CCP sells. So if the current plex speculators sit on large stockpiles of plex, they wont need to buy more plex from CCP anytime soon There's evidentially enough being purchased in RL cash that there is currently $40,000 worth for public sale on the market, lets not forget that people also buy them for purposes other than gametime, including replenishing stockpiles that are released for cash injections, cash injections, for exchange to Aurum, for dual character training etc. So I don't think there is a RL lack of demand. Quote: and if that also causes a lack of player retention, then it does indeed hurt CCP as no new income happens. Do you have any evidence of this beyond cries of "I can't afford PLEX because I'm unwilling to put in the amount of effort required to purchase it with ingame cash and I'm too tight/poor to pay for it in RL"? It's a luxury good, deal with it. Quote: So unless we can actually see that current plex sale numbers from CCP are as high as they have used to be, then there is no reason to claim it wont hurt CCP. Yet you're willing to claim that it will harm CCP, without holding yourself to the same standards of evidence that you demand of people that disagree? That sir, is called hypocrisy. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Amak Boma Dragon Factory 145	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:15:22 - [66] - Quote keep in mind if csm supports it and eventually ccp rething this and do something we cant except plex price to go down very much , we can only stop price growing up more. less players buy plex via money , less plex in markets so price spikes up. cutting plex from aurum will solve the problem partially but will give atleast effect.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17164	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:15:37 - [67] - Quote Unfortunately, he's so correct it's almost a tautology. There aren't enough PLEX for everyone who wants one. Therefore either demand will decrease or supply with increase. A higher ISK price effects both of these changes. So much for Economics 101. You're right that it's unhelpful to keep saying something so obviously true, but it's also equally important not to forget it. A PLEX isn't like steak; no matter how much I like a good steak, there is only so much of it I can eat, even if I get unlimited quantities of them for free. By contrast, I can and would expend my hypothetical free PLEX usage massively beyond what it would take to sustain my current two accounts, to the point where the utility of an extra login and training queue diminishes to below the effort required to create the account and use it. At almost any price point above zero, therefore, demand for PLEX will increase with a drop in price, and vice versa. So there's a bunch of ways to decrease the ISK price of a PLEX. But first it's important to decide why you want PLEX price to increase. What's the goal here? If it's just "So I can play EVE like I do now but spend less time making ISK to pay for my PLEX", that's fine but it rules out solutions like eg: CCP decreasing demand by limiting the number of accounts players can have. In short: defining the actual result you want to achieve will make the solution much clearer. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Helia Tranquilis State War Academy Caldari State 36	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:16:28 - [68] - Quote If you can't afford to pay, you don't deserve to play.
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 87	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:16:53 - [69] - Quote Aoife Fraoch wrote: Shade Alidiana wrote: Aoife Fraoch wrote: Rather than quote everyone I will use this strawman: Convenient Strawman wrote: But if people can not play for free then it is terrible and not good, and this is a thing that needs to change and be addressed. Why? Seriously, please explain why when there is a robust market for PLEX the number of players using it to keep their accounts going versus those buying them in game for other reasons actually matters? In all these threads this never gets addressed. One more point, it is CCP who has been steadily increasing the utility of plex over time by linking it to other ingame items. Perhaps CCP are far more interested in increasing the lifetime value of their customers and ghe ingame value of PLEX to drive more out of game purchases? PLEX is not the only thing you can buy out of game. So I see nothing bad in limiting its uses. THAT would only change the balance between supply of game time and supply of cool stuff (skins?) This is a very very quick take on a dollar to AURUM exchange rate. It's based on a single PLEX price/$20 pack (yes I know there are external site sales, and pack pricing discounts): 2040350.004956629 19.9535000.0057 Looks like a PLEX on conversion nets CCP more per AURUM than buying AURUM. At least in this set of circumstances. Perhaps if they ended the PLEX to AURUM conversion pipeline the dollar price for AURUM might creep up? Would be useful to see what kind of a take up there has been for directly buying AURUM versus sourcing it from within EVE via PLEX. That may be varying from place to place. I'm getting 4035 AUR on the secure.eveonline.com for the PLEX price, and people say PLEX gives only 3500 (I didn't ever care before yesterday). But I have also suggested increasing AUR prices to match in the OP.
Top Guac Mexican Avacado Syndicate 9	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:17:45 - [70] - Quote What can be done? But PLEX and be happy that you can get so much ISK for it at the moment. No problem at all.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4184	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:22:30 - [71] - Quote My only worry regarding PLEX is the extent of speculation and hoarding. PLEX without hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Jack for ISK. . John buys some ships and plays the game . Jack pays his sub with PLEX and plays the game net result: +2 people playing PLEX with hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Nastyguy for ISK . John buys some ships and plays the game . Nastyguy resells the PLEX at +50% ISK value . Jack can't afford the higher price and unsubs net result: only +1 people playing, plus Mr. Nastyguy laughing I hope CCP has this under control in some way, a completely free and wild market on PLEX is not good for the game's health. I would consider introducing a 6-month expiry on PLEX to curtail hoarding. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:35:15 - [72] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: My only worry regarding PLEX is the extent of speculation and hoarding. PLEX without hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Jack for ISK. . John buys some ships and plays the game . Jack pays his sub with PLEX and plays the game net result: +2 people playing PLEX with hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Nastyguy for ISK . John buys some ships and plays the game . Nastyguy resells the PLEX at +50% ISK value . Jack can't afford the higher price and unsubs net result: only +1 people playing, plus Mr. Nastyguy laughing I hope CCP has this under control in some way, a completely free and wild market on PLEX is not good for the game's health. I would consider introducing a 6-month expiry on PLEX to curtail hoarding. Interesting point of view, even though I'm not sure I completely accept or maybe even understtand it. Thanks for constructive input anyway :)
Aoife Fraoch Rabble Inc. 156	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:37:48 - [73] - Quote Shade Alidiana wrote: Aoife Fraoch wrote: Shade Alidiana wrote: Aoife Fraoch wrote: Rather than quote everyone I will use this strawman: Convenient Strawman wrote: But if people can not play for free then it is terrible and not good, and this is a thing that needs to change and be addressed. Why? Seriously, please explain why when there is a robust market for PLEX the number of players using it to keep their accounts going versus those buying them in game for other reasons actually matters? In all these threads this never gets addressed. One more point, it is CCP who has been steadily increasing the utility of plex over time by linking it to other ingame items. Perhaps CCP are far more interested in increasing the lifetime value of their customers and ghe ingame value of PLEX to drive more out of game purchases? PLEX is not the only thing you can buy out of game. So I see nothing bad in limiting its uses. THAT would only change the balance between supply of game time and supply of cool stuff (skins?) This is a very very quick take on a dollar to AURUM exchange rate. It's based on a single PLEX price/$20 pack (yes I know there are external site sales, and pack pricing discounts): 2040350.004956629 19.9535000.0057 Looks like a PLEX on conversion nets CCP more per AURUM than buying AURUM. At least in this set of circumstances. Perhaps if they ended the PLEX to AURUM conversion pipeline the dollar price for AURUM might creep up? Would be useful to see what kind of a take up there has been for directly buying AURUM versus sourcing it from within EVE via PLEX. That may be varying from place to place. I'm getting 4035 AUR on the secure.eveonline.com for the PLEX price, and people say PLEX gives only 3500 (I didn't ever care before yesterday). But I have also suggested increasing AUR prices to match in the OP. Your figures sound like mine. My formatting was a little horrible. It was Dollar Aurum Dollar/Aurum.
Calum Raholan Sektor 17 JJS Spectral Coalition 7	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:43:50 - [74] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: My only worry regarding PLEX is the extent of speculation and hoarding. PLEX without hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Jack for ISK. . John buys some ships and plays the game . Jack pays his sub with PLEX and plays the game net result: +2 people playing PLEX with hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Nastyguy for ISK . John buys some ships and plays the game . Nastyguy resells the PLEX at +50% ISK value . Jack can't afford the higher price and unsubs net result: only +1 people playing, plus Mr. Nastyguy laughing I hope CCP has this under control in some way, a completely free and wild market on PLEX is not good for the game's health. I would consider introducing a 6-month expiry on PLEX to curtail hoarding. This actually wouldn't be that bad an idea... Like many when I have enough ISK to purchase I PLEX I do so as I always have alts than need training and if I don't then my ISK will for all respective purposes be worth less if I wait. Adding a time component to it means that it couldn't be used as essentially a gold bullion of EVE, however I think it would be far to complex to implement this system into the market.
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:47:47 - [75] - Quote Calum Raholan wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: My only worry regarding PLEX is the extent of speculation and hoarding. PLEX without hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Jack for ISK. . John buys some ships and plays the game . Jack pays his sub with PLEX and plays the game net result: +2 people playing PLEX with hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Nastyguy for ISK . John buys some ships and plays the game . Nastyguy resells the PLEX at +50% ISK value . Jack can't afford the higher price and unsubs net result: only +1 people playing, plus Mr. Nastyguy laughing I hope CCP has this under control in some way, a completely free and wild market on PLEX is not good for the game's health. I would consider introducing a 6-month expiry on PLEX to curtail hoarding. This actually wouldn't be that bad an idea... Like many when I have enough ISK to purchase I PLEX I do so as I always have alts than need training and if I don't then my ISK will for all respective purposes be worth less if I wait. Adding a time component to it means that it couldn't be used as essentially a gold bullion of EVE, however I think it would be far to complex to implement this system into the market. I don't think it's any complex to implement, but... well, that would cut one of the things I and others use. I mean storing PLEX in hangar when we temporarily leave game, to surely be able to return and play as we would normally. But that doesn't seem like a big issue to me, at all. If this helps the issue.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4186	Posted - 2015.10.18 12:59:24 - [76] - Quote Shade Alidiana wrote: Calum Raholan wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: I would consider introducing a 6-month expiry on PLEX to curtail hoarding. This actually wouldn't be that bad an idea... Like many when I have enough ISK to purchase I PLEX I do so as I always have alts than need training and if I don't then my ISK will for all respective purposes be worth less if I wait. Adding a time component to it means that it couldn't be used as essentially a gold bullion of EVE, however I think it would be far to complex to implement this system into the market. I don't think it's any complex to implement, but... well, that would cut one of the things I and others use. I mean storing PLEX in hangar when we temporarily leave game, to surely be able to return and play as we would normally. But that doesn't seem like a big issue to me, at all. If this helps the issue. Yeah, just an idea, don't know if it makes sense or not. CCP have the numbers and - I hope - the knowledge to decide. We would basically have 6-7 versions of PLEX sold in the market at any given time. For example, today in Jita we'd have: . PLEX Oct15 . PLEX Nov15 . PLEX Dec15 . PLEX Jan16 . PLEX Feb16 . PLEX Mar16 . PLEX Apr16 PLEX Oct15, usable onyl until the end of this month, would naturally be sold at a discount compared to the others. PLEX Apr16 would maybe be the most expensive, as it offers traders a wider window to exchange it. Maybe traders would run 'fire sales' towards the end of each month, with bargain opportunities. Could be fun, could work, don't know Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H. 473	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:02:33 - [77] - Quote Go take a graph of the PLEX price GÇô then overlay the USD on top of that. There's your explanation. Real world economics affect PLEX prices more than anything else.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4186	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:03:54 - [78] - Quote Pohbis wrote: Go take a graph of the PLEX price GÇô then overlay the USD on top of that. There's your explanation. Real world economics affect PLEX prices more than anything else. Err... USD compared to what? EUR? RUB? JPY? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 88	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:05:57 - [79] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Shade Alidiana wrote: Calum Raholan wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: I would consider introducing a 6-month expiry on PLEX to curtail hoarding. This actually wouldn't be that bad an idea... Like many when I have enough ISK to purchase I PLEX I do so as I always have alts than need training and if I don't then my ISK will for all respective purposes be worth less if I wait. Adding a time component to it means that it couldn't be used as essentially a gold bullion of EVE, however I think it would be far to complex to implement this system into the market. I don't think it's any complex to implement, but... well, that would cut one of the things I and others use. I mean storing PLEX in hangar when we temporarily leave game, to surely be able to return and play as we would normally. But that doesn't seem like a big issue to me, at all. If this helps the issue. Yeah, just an idea, don't know if it makes sense or not. CCP have the numbers and - I hope - the knowledge to decide. We would basically have 6-7 versions of PLEX sold in the market at any given time. For example, today in Jita we'd have: . PLEX Oct15 . PLEX Nov15 . PLEX Dec15 . PLEX Jan16 . PLEX Feb16 . PLEX Mar16 . PLEX Apr16 PLEX Oct15, usable onyl until the end of this month, would naturally be sold at a discount compared to the others. PLEX Apr16 would maybe be the most expensive, as it offers traders a wider window to exchange it. Maybe traders would run 'fire sales' towards the end of each month, with bargain opportunities. Could be fun, could work, don't know Yea sounds fun and I like it. And is already made (in a way) with snowballs so wouldn't be completely new.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17165	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:18:56 - [80] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: My only worry regarding PLEX is the extent of speculation and hoarding. PLEX without hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Jack for ISK. . John buys some ships and plays the game . Jack pays his sub with PLEX and plays the game net result: +2 people playing PLEX with hoarding/speculation: . John buys PLEX with cash, trades it with Nastyguy for ISK . John buys some ships and plays the game . Nastyguy resells the PLEX at +50% ISK value . Jack can't afford the higher price and unsubs net result: only +1 people playing, plus Mr. Nastyguy laughing I hope CCP has this under control in some way, a completely free and wild market on PLEX is not good for the game's health. I would consider introducing a 6-month expiry on PLEX to curtail hoarding. The traditional answer to this analysis is that PLEX speculators introduce liquidity to the PLEX market. But it's far from apparent to me that there's any lack of liquidity. I think the answer may lie in a more radical solution: get rid of PLEX altogether. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4186	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:25:45 - [81] - Quote Malcanis wrote: The traditional answer to this analysis is that PLEX speculators introduce liquidity to the PLEX market. But it's far from apparent to me that there's any lack of liquidity. I think the answer may lie in a more radical solution: get rid of PLEX altogether. LOL that's the traditional answer to any hint of market regulation anywhere. But I don't have enough figures (nor smarts) to say who's right. Don't think you're serious about PLEX. Everyone seems to love it and use it (both sides), plus it's extra $ for CCP; why get rid of it? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 89	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:36:13 - [82] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Malcanis wrote: The traditional answer to this analysis is that PLEX speculators introduce liquidity to the PLEX market. But it's far from apparent to me that there's any lack of liquidity. I think the answer may lie in a more radical solution: get rid of PLEX altogether. LOL that's the traditional answer to any hint of market regulation anywhere. But I don't have enough figures (nor smarts) to say who's right. Don't think you're serious about PLEX. Everyone seems to love it and use it (both sides), plus it's extra $ for CCP; why get rid of it? Yeah, that. I can't really see the reason CCP may do it for. Maybe you (Malcanis) can explain?
ArmyOfMe Hull Breach. Outnumbered. 486	Posted - 2015.10.18 13:50:52 - [83] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ArmyOfMe wrote: The problem here is that atm only a very little % of the plex ingame are actually on the market, so there is no way of knowing how many new plex CCP sells. So if the current plex speculators sit on large stockpiles of plex, they wont need to buy more plex from CCP anytime soon There's evidentially enough being purchased in RL cash that there is currently $40,000 worth for public sale on the market, lets not forget that people also buy them for purposes other than gametime, including replenishing stockpiles that are released for cash injections, cash injections, for exchange to Aurum, for dual character training etc. So I don't think there is a RL lack of demand. Quote: and if that also causes a lack of player retention, then it does indeed hurt CCP as no new income happens. Do you have any evidence of this beyond cries of "I can't afford to sub because I'm unwilling to put in the amount of effort required to purchase a PLEX with ingame cash and I'm too tight/poor to pay for it in RL"? PLEX is a luxury good, deal with it. Quote: So unless we can actually see that current plex sale numbers from CCP are as high as they have used to be, then there is no reason to claim it wont hurt CCP. Yet you're willing to claim that it will harm CCP, without holding yourself to the same standards of evidence that you demand of people that disagree? That sir, is called hypocrisy. Well, considering how much the player count has dropped the last two years, along with how many i know that has let their alt accounts run out, i feel that its a fair claim to say its hurting CCP. Im pretty confident that most of us knows at least one guy that no longer subs an alt account due to plex prices, or says they are getting sick of trying to make isk to pay for the game. Personally i pay for my accounts, tho i buy plex on the market at times as well, but thats simply cause i can afford to do so. I do however know ppl that cant afford to pay for their sub in the normal way, and hate the whole pve aspect of the game so much that they cba to pve to make 1,2b for a plex + isk for ships at the same time. And i honestly cant blame them, cause pve in this game is in my eyes some of the most horrible form of torture ever created. Havens and Sanctums makes waterboarding sound like a fun thing. QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
Chopper Rollins Lantean Empire 1112	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:55:06 - [84] - Quote OH GOD WHO ARE THESE MANIACS THAT THINK BECAUSE THEY PAY FOR THEIR SUB WITH SPAEC MONEY THEY ARE PLAYING FOR FREE? Are you making a billion an hour? Because i make way more than that an hour with my JOB. I don't have time to shoot red icons or fiddle with a moon goo trainset empire just to pay my sub. I pay for the sub, if i need isk i sell a plex and burn it having fun, i log on to have fun. Remember, a plex is worth about as much as a nice coffee and a couple of bagels for two. If that's a burden for you to raise, stop playing. If that's an achievement in-game, you are wasting your god damned life. People that time rich need better things to do i swear. oh look 1111 likes, nice. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
ArmyOfMe Hull Breach. Outnumbered. 487	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:58:21 - [85] - Quote Chopper Rollins wrote: OH GOD WHO ARE THESE MANIACS THAT THINK BECAUSE THEY PAY FOR THEIR SUB WITH SPAEC MONEY THEY ARE PLAYING FOR FREE? Are you making a billion an hour? Because i make way more than that an hour with my JOB. I don't have time to shoot red icons or fiddle with a moon goo trainset empire just to pay my sub. I pay for the sub, if i need isk i sell a plex and burn it having fun, i log on to have fun. Remember, a plex is worth about as much as a nice coffee and a couple of bagels for two. If that's a burden for you to raise, stop playing. If that's an achievement in-game, you are wasting your god damned life. People that time rich need better things to do i swear. oh look 1111 likes, nice. You seem bitter, you should perhaps stay away from caffeine for a while. QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 89	Posted - 2015.10.18 14:58:56 - [86] - Quote Chopper Rollins wrote: [ Remember, a plex is worth about as much as a nice coffee and a couple of bagels for two. If that's a burden for you to raise, stop playing. If that's an achievement in-game, you are wasting your god damned life. People that time rich need better things to do i swear. A plex is what some people can live a week for. There are different countries in the world, keep that in mind.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17166	Posted - 2015.10.18 15:32:46 - [87] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Malcanis wrote: The traditional answer to this analysis is that PLEX speculators introduce liquidity to the PLEX market. But it's far from apparent to me that there's any lack of liquidity. I think the answer may lie in a more radical solution: get rid of PLEX altogether. LOL that's the traditional answer to any hint of market regulation anywhere. But I don't have enough figures (nor smarts) to say who's right. Don't think you're serious about PLEX. Everyone seems to love it and use it (both sides), plus it's extra $ for CCP; why get rid of it? Why indeed? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17166	Posted - 2015.10.18 16:13:57 - [88] - Quote OK look when you're trying to sell something, there are some things that you can do to increase demand (or, more precisely, to reduce deterrents to demand). 1) You can make other options less accessible, less desirable or less useful. 2) You can improve the granularity of the product. Granularity meaning variation in both the cost and the utility of what you're selling. Lots of people buy a car, but if the smallest amount of car that you could possibly buy was 100 units, car manufacturers would almost certainly sell many fewer cars. Or if the cheapest vehicle was an Aston Martin DB9 or an F350 truck. 3) You can reduce your prices. Of course this is kind of a last resort, because doing so instantly decreases your existing revenue base, but there can be good commercial reasons for doing so that outweigh that consideration - if you're in a position to leverage those reasons. 4) You can increase the intrinsic utility of the product; add options, make it do more, improve it. So the first option isn't really available to CCP: there's no easy avenue to making competing products less attractive than buying EVE PLEX; either people want to put their -ú$ isn't EVE or they want to put it into some other hobby. Except that there is one avenue, and that's getting customers to buy PLEX instead of spending their EVE money in other ways. The second option is absolutely available to CCP, because they've already implemented it. The Aurum, EVE's third cash equivalent currency is over 4 years old and has more uses than PLEX already. It's also available in smaller value-quantities, so it's more granular, But it's still not granular and convenient enough to qualify as an easy impulse purchase. Currently, PLEX are expensive, have poor granulation (You have to spend at least $17.50, you can't get less than 30 days at a time), are kind of hard work to buy, and are risky and vulnerable when instantiaed into the game. (And yes, I said "third". PLEX is only the second. The first is, of course, game time. See below!) The third option is equally available to CCP, and while it may seem paradoxical to advise a business with falling customer sales to reduce revenue, I believe CCP needs to urgently consider doing so. This is because EVE players mainly play EVE because other EVE players do so. The more people who are actively playing, the better value proposition it is to "invest" your hobby time in the game; more groups to join, more content to enjoy, more events to read about, more depth to the game experience. Oh hey, we just covered the fourth option already! The tl;dr, as the more perceptive readers will have already guessed is that I believe that CCP should make the following changes: i: *Unify all 3 of EVE cash-equivalent currencies into a single currency: Aurum.* The only way to give CCP money is to buy Aurum; every cash equivalent service is transacted in Aurum, including game time. ii: Every day an account is active, Aurum is deducted from your AUR wallet. If you're subscribed then you get x AUR/month or 3x AUR/quarter or whatever added to your AUR wallet. If you never want to use any of the other AUR products, then everything carries on for you pretty much as before, with the exception that you can conveniently see in game how much game time you have left. iii: AUR can be removed from your wallet and converted into freely tradable AUR tokens again. If you want to "Buy a PLEX and sell it for ISK" then you cash in some of the AUR in your wallet buy this method. If you need more ISk than this will allow, then you'll need to buy some more AUR from CCP. This allows players to extend their available game time in much more granular ways. Instead of being forced to have enough ISK to buy 30 days worth at once, they will have the option to buy whatever AUR their wallet allows when they need it. iv: CCP significantly reduce the per-diem cash cost of maintaining a subscription. Currently a PLEX costs -ú17.50, while a subscription costs -ú9.99 for 30 days, or -ú28 for 90 days. That's a gigantic markup, and it's unjustifiable. Bring the equivalent AUR price down to something just barely above that 30 day subscription level. Say -ú10-50--ú10.99 or $16 for enough AUR to play for 30 days, and more importantly, allow people to buy small quantities, down to around the -ú2/$3 zone. At this price point, people can buy AUR as an impluse purchase, because what the hell, it's only -ú2, and once you're tapping that impulse "don't care about the cost" market, your demand will invariably rise. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17166	Posted - 2015.10.18 16:15:43 - [89] - Quote o7 PLEX! "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Lykouleon Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 1656	Posted - 2015.10.18 16:26:54 - [90] - Quote Shade Alidiana wrote: A plex is what some people can live a week for. There are different countries in the world, keep that in mind. To be absolutely blunt: if your weekly salary is the same value as paying for a subscription, there are MUCH more important things in your life that you should be focusing on than playing a spaceship video game. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

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