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Nathanial Victor
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 28/12/2006 23:32:25
edit: this is NOT a fitting/setup thread. there are plenty of those around if you want to post that stuff
I know, this thread has been done. But more so before it was released than after 
After release there was still whining and groaning (understandable) but from there ppl seeking productive discussion tried to look past the drawbacks and focus on the positive points.
SO, now that we have got some time to try her out, pvprs and carebears alike:
Thumbs up or down?
PVEers, is the shield boost bonus enough to send a raven lvl 4 runner to his character sheet to train up howies?
PVPers, are they popping up in snipe fleets more often? Or would you rather just train up a rohk / stick w/ tempest?
Miners, this thread is not for you (no offense, but i could care less, its a combat ship i would like to talk about combat ability)
I bought one, tested it out multiple times (short & long), and now i dont think it will ever undock again... unless i want to move it for a better sell price. Just doesn't feel like a minmatar ship.
Bottom line, do ppl hate it enough that ccp may consider some Maelstrom reform in the near future? (Be it stats or bonus's)
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Fruchten
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:36:00 -
[2]
I wont be buying one, if that means much. It just isn't worth it. I love my tempest and the mael just doesn't fit any role I have. Give the mael a shield HP bonus and maybe it will be worth it, maybe.
The hurricane on the other hand is very nice.
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d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.29 00:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: d''hofren on 29/12/2006 00:09:06
Haven't seen a single one out where I live and I think it is the only tier three BS I haven't seen. 112mil for the guns alone? To fit the thing well we must be talking 200mil of uninsurable kit. For the cost of the kit + ship I could have a nice pimp phoon and a standard fleet pest.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.12.29 00:44:00 -
[4]
Not worth the extra cost... stick with the Tempest.
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Chee
Minmatar
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.29 00:47:00 -
[5]
Its an ok ship, not great, nice to have on the side. Shield tank is good but it doesnt really add a new thing to the BS level.
Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
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VossKarr
Caldari
The 6th Directorate
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Posted - 2006.12.29 00:56:00 -
[6]
As far as Maelstrom is concerned, it's a redundant ship. It's a Tempest, take two, with absolutely uninspiring bonuses and nothing about it that would make it worth the premium over the T. I hope CCP is taking notes... 
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War Bear
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:07:00 -
[7]
How's its alpha strike vs the tempest? I know there are different bonuses but if it squeeks out a bit more damage\better range\better tracking due to mods I would consider it worth it.
No matter where you go, there you are. |
Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 29/12/2006 01:12:04
 Originally by: War Bear
How's its alpha strike vs the tempest? I know there are different bonuses but if it squeeks out a bit more damage\better range\better tracking due to mods I would consider it worth it.
For a significant price increase, you get a slightly higher alpha, dps, and tracking (tracking boost of tracking enhancer < tracking boost of tracking computer).
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Nathanial Victor
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 29/12/2006 01:12:04
Originally by: War Bear
How's its alpha strike vs the tempest? I know there are different bonuses but if it squeeks out a bit more damage\better range\better tracking due to mods I would consider it worth it.
For a significant price increase, you get a slightly higher alpha, dps, and tracking (tracking boost of tracking enhancer < tracking boost of tracking computer).
NB.
hmm.... yes it erks out a bit more dps. I think i heard someone say it was equivelent of adding half a gun to a tempest.
So, slightly higher per volley = the bigger alpha/dps, but not sure where you get the tracking? (unless you just commenting on the extra mid... i use 2 track comps on a temp for sniping and couldn't see fitting 3 on a mael w/ stackig bonus)
lows are always damage mods, and i like 4 gyros on a sniper... so that leaves the mael kinda meh
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Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
So, slightly higher per volley = the bigger alpha/dps, but not sure where you get the tracking? (unless you just commenting on the extra mid... i use 2 track comps on a temp for sniping and couldn't see fitting 3 on a mael w/ stackig bonus)
It depends on fittings obviously. I'd say you kinda need 3 tracking mods for the extra range given the relatively low base optimal of artillery (VS tachyons and 425mm railguns at least).
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:44:00 -
[11]
they are an absolute ***** to kill in small gang PvP. I have never gone up against a rohk, but maelstrum's and hyp's have me checking my cargo to see if I have enough ammo.
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Twin blade
Minmatar
The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:50:00 -
[12]
It sucks Tempest is better in every way.
It should of been like the machariel only with 8 turret's a light fast armor tanking AC ship.
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Imhotep Khem
Total Mayhem.
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 02:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 29/12/2006 02:02:38
Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 29/12/2006 02:01:51
It cost far too much for what it does. Of course you like the Hurricane. Hurricane and cyclone have the same relationship as Maelstrom and Tempest. Except Maelstrom is the higher tier.
Shield tanking always sucked on Minmatar. They have to give 7.5 to even make it respectable. Look how much work and changes the Cyclone too before it was respectable.
I don't think there is anything they can do to make this ship worth the isk they want to charge for it.
It is far superior sniper than Tempest. Its slot layout allows for better tracking. it has longer lock range from start and more mid slots. Lots of power. Its tank is a beast. Absolute Beast. But for almost 2x the cost I'd take 2 tempests...
I got jumped by 3 vagabonds the other day. Stupid thing is soo freakin slow that it took ages to warp....and didnt  I may as well have been in a Naglfar. It tanked for a few minutes before the calvary arrived to save my hunk of tin.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Cindy Marco
Minmatar
Red Core
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Posted - 2006.12.29 02:27:00 -
[14]
I don't like it. And its so bad, that at this point there is nothing for it. To come out a Minmatar ship, they would have to scrap everything it is, and start over.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.29 02:34:00 -
[15]
Aside from the shield tank and the autocannons, its an amarran boat at heart. You warp in, dont move, shoot at things and tank. Should do that role pretty darn well as well.
Its a great platform for autocannon rigs[30+KM falloff with fusion with, 45+ for barrage and powergrid to spare without any rig skills] with with a proper fit will be a very strong battleship.
It however, isnt the typical minmatar design, which should cause problems if you try to fly it like that.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Veryez
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Posted - 2006.12.29 02:40:00 -
[16]
It's the only new ship I've yet to see in space. I certainly won't be flying one. As predicted when the concept of the ship was first released, without 7 mids it was just an expensive Tempest. Since it won't be fixed, it should be removed from the game and isk refunded.
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schurem
Silver Snake Enterprise
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.29 02:58:00 -
[17]
i love it. its teh pwn against angel rats.
Only irks i have with it are its exorbitant price and its speed/agility. she moves like a supertanker in a sea of molasses on a cold day.
On the up hand she fires eight gun broadsides 
She tanks with the best of em and has grid to spare for some sweet fittings.
However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds.
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
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Richard Masterson
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2006.12.29 03:50:00 -
[18]
I bought a BPC for this and built one out in 0.0. After a few weeks with it:
1. I will never, ever, EVER use this ship for PvP. 8 turrets and alpha strike aside, it is too damn heavy, expensive (to build AND fit, thank-you-very-much T2 1400 howitzer prices), and uninspired to fly in fleet or gang combat. A Tempest will remain my first choice.
2. This is a solid PvE ship when used with another ship. I.E. Use a dedicated tanker to hold aggro, move the Mael off and snipe as fast as the guns will cycle. I like the fact that having only L proj ammo allows me to hold a large amount of ammo for extended missions. I have even used this as an autocannon boat, and although it has an appetite for ammo, it works well for anything cruiser sized and above.
(You will not, however, see Raven pilots training up for howitzers in order to fly this ship. Ever. In fact, I'd be tempted to train up for a Raven for NPCing rather than stick with the Maelstrom.)
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.12.29 03:55:00 -
[19]
PVE
- missions: phoon is a better pve ship with 2 out of 3 very versatile weapon systems, mael can fit a better tank but that's not really necessary, mael damage output is a bit gimped compared to phoon due to tracking issues
- ratting: any BS works well here imo the relevant thing here is cost and mael doesn't really shine in that
- complexes: mael tank can be good here, but a rokh and probably even an abbadon will perform better (speaking about BS)
PVP
- solo: not a good ship for solo pvp
- small gang: for my taste is not a very good gang ship, it needs to fit nanos/inertia in lows to approach fast, is quite vulnerable to nos, it can fit a big tank+gank but an EW approach is generally more effective
- fleet: a bit more dps/alpha and eventually hps at higher fitting price than a pest... is also going to fight in abaddon range... abaddon damage and shield tank = a lot of pain
what went wrong with this ship?
the ship is not that bad but it suffer from some problems...
it is too slow and cumbersome to be an effective AC boat and also is imo too vulnerable to NOS...
it have an useless bonus to be a good fleet boat... new fleet ships (caldari and amarr) have a good defensive and offensive bonus... is quite logical that a ship with just 1 effective bonus can't compete
arty are EXTREMELY underpowered compared to other long range turrets... they lost their alpha in these years but nothing was done to rebalance them... + 40-50% range imo will be a good solution to this problem
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Neo Providence
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Posted - 2006.12.29 04:08:00 -
[20]
man, and i was so hoping to build a malestrom tomorrow. really no kid. since every 1 find the malestrom very bad it does have 1 advantage over other tier 3 battleships. it's building cost is very low compare to other tier 3 b-ships. sooo right now i'm planning to leave the malestrom bpc on the table and just go with a hurricane.
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Twin blade
Minmatar
The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2006.12.29 04:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Neo Providence
man, and i was so hoping to build a malestrom tomorrow. really no kid. since every 1 find the malestrom very bad it does have 1 advantage over other tier 3 battleships. it's building cost is very low compare to other tier 3 b-ships. sooo right now i'm planning to leave the malestrom bpc on the table and just go with a hurricane.
It can shield tank better than a tempest but thats about it the damage is all most the same given how temp's can load more drone's.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.12.29 04:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Neo Providence
man, and i was so hoping to build a malestrom tomorrow. really no kid. since every 1 find the malestrom very bad it does have 1 advantage over other tier 3 battleships. it's building cost is very low compare to other tier 3 b-ships. sooo right now i'm planning to leave the malestrom bpc on the table and just go with a hurricane.
The only thing the Maelstrom has going for it over the Tempest is that it is a bit more n00b friendly damage wise. A Maelstrom will do a fair bit more damage than a Tempest without BS 5 due to its 8 guns... with BS 5 it barely out damages the Tempest (due to Tempest's dual damage bonus) and costs a fair bit more (2 extra guns and higher base cost).
If you have the isk and don't have BS 5 the Maelstrom might be worthwhile, otherwise stick with the Tempest unless you have plenty of isk to burn.
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.12.29 04:32:00 -
[23]
It's not a bad ship as such. It's just that over the Tempest it only does one thing significantly better and that's shield tank.
The dps(and volley damage as well) is only about 6% better (with bs lvl 5, the lower bs skill is though the better the maelstrom is over the tempest for dps/alpha up to 26% more dps from mael). For the rest it's slower, more expensive and requires an additional 2 guns to get the 6% higher dps/alpha(which also means no utility high-slots).
My opinion on a change if they were to change it, is to change the Rate of fire bonus to a damage bonus. This way the alpha strike of the Maelstrom really starts to mean something over the Tempest. It does mean that the Maelstrom will "only" do the same dps as a Tempest with max skill but when in a sniper setup the maelstrom would be preferable over a Tempest by about 33.33% 
Crystal-Slave, that way?
Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug |
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.12.29 04:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Twin blade
Originally by: Neo Providence
...
It can shield tank better than a tempest but thats about it the damage is all most the same given how temp's can load more drone's.
huh? Since when is 100m¦ less then 75m¦?
Crystal-Slave, that way?
Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug |
6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 05:06:00 -
[25]
PvE:
Much better at running level 4s than my phoon. I can sit at 50-60km and just pound the **** out of anything in the level. The big difference is that the Maelstrom can fit a very strong tank while still mounting 8x 1400mm, basically its the Minmatar's answer to the Raven. The only real problem is tracking, artys have ****ty tracking for the range the fight at and you can only spare so many midslots for tracking comps. Drones are pretty much the option for dealing with rats that get under your guns.
PvP: I have not flown this in PvP, but I think it would make an excellent close support ship operating at around 75-100km. Snipers are free to shoot at you and you should warp out or release your drones if anything tries to tackle you. Don't try to use ACs or tackling mods with this ship, you simply cannot spare the midslots.
Conclusion: I'd like another mid for a tracking comp, but that might give the ship excessive tanking ability. A better solution would be to increase artilery's tracking so that we can better hit targets at the shorter ranges in which our guns shine.
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Ephemeron
The Syndicate Inc
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.29 05:34:00 -
[26]
Mealstrom would have a clear role as the best alpha strike ship if its ROF bonus was replaced by damage bonus
I think such a change would definitely make it more popular
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 06:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Mealstrom would have a clear role as the best alpha strike ship if its ROF bonus was replaced by damage bonus
I think such a change would definitely make it more popular
Problem is that arty's really the RoF bonus in order to keep up their dps. The Maelstrom is more of a sustained bombardment ship as opposed to a long-range sniper.
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar
DROW Org
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Posted - 2006.12.29 07:28:00 -
[28]
Now that I have had a couple off weeks running missions in one, I finally feel comfortable commenting on this ship in a PVE role.
It's really quite good overall.
highpoints:
It's got very good targeting range by default. Good enough to use 1200's out to their practical limits (assuming tech I ammo) without a sensor boost.
It does not require battleship 5 to do decent damage. I still have the better part of a month to go on battleship 5, and this is a big deal for the moment.
The drone bay is large enough to allow for some versatility. I can carry some throw away tech I's for when I am unsure of how drones may affect aggro in addition to the normal payload of tech II small and medium mission specific drones. The other option is a webber drone, which allows 1200 to hit cruisers reasonably well, even up close.
It tanks disgustingly well. I was able to handle the entire 3rd stage of pirate slaughter with ease. The dps involved was simply impossible to deal with in even my Tempest Fleet, and would pop a Typhoon in seconds. I have intentionally aggroed entire levels just to see how she handles and have watched in absolute amazement as my shields have remained pegged at 99%.
It has a very generous cap size by Minmatar standards. This allows you to run an afterburner and shield boost for an amount of time that would be impossible in other Matari ships.
The ship has proven to be reasonably flexible, and has done well with autocannon, 1200mm setups designed to tank heavy and fight at mid range, and with 1400mm sniping setups. I have used all three of these basic concepts, employing a a fair number of variations on each, and found all to be successful within their intended scope, though the ship does still seem to be missing a little something in this regard.
Lowpoints:
The two "extra" slots on my Tempest are sorely missed.
It handles like a brick. Both acceleration and top speed (even with a faction AB) are horrible. This feels more like a Caldari ship than a Matari ship when trying to dictate range and transversal.
It feels like it's missing a lowslot. Most of us complained when we saw the initial plans for this ship that called for an 8/6/6 layout, but I can say now, that the ship would be vastly improved if it had that additional low. While the low that got dropped is not strictly neccesary, it would have provided a greatly improved degree of flexibility.
Price. A couple of extra 1200's are no big deal really, but dropping another 50 million on 1400mm scouts after coughing up 170 million for the hull made this ship a bit on the pricey side to get started with.
Will this ship cause any Raven pilots to start training Howitzers? Probably not. The Rokh is an excellent ship in it's own right, and their time would be better spent learning large rail spec than dabbling in Matar ships and weapons. The ship does fill a role that Minmatar battleships had been missing: heavy tank. It fills the role admirably too. Given an active tank setup, there is no other battleship that can hope to compete with this ship in terms of it's ability to laugh off insanely high incoming dps.
Looking strictly at the PVE picture with this ship, it is worth the expense, but only if you are already well versed in mission running with the Tempest IMO. The tactics really do not change much, but because of the Maelstrom's lack of agility and sluggish handling, the ship can be a bit more difficult to use to maximum effect. Maximum profits and ease of use still belong to the Raven, but if the thought of running missions in a missile boat bores you to death, this really is not the worst you could do.
J.A.F.O.
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Nifel
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.29 07:47:00 -
[29]
I'll be sure to get one whenever I'll be doing lowsec ops with a BS. Otherwise it's the Tempest.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car."
RKK Ranking: Sama |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.29 08:02:00 -
[30]
It looks and feels like a Caldari design with some Minmatar topping.
It isn't bad, but the price is very much on the high side for what it does.
Only part of this comes from pretty high T2 weapon and T2 shield tanking prices. Competing with the shield tanked mission running Raven for equipment adds quite some exra cash you have to dish out.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
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