Yes, we have been over this before. I have no objection to an 'and' solution, especially if they cannot be stacked. I am assuming that the decision to remove attributes/learning implants has already been made but perhaps this is incorrect.

The issue with learning implants is their ability to be lost

Why would they remove Implants and replace it with boosters. If they are going to remove attributes then I can't see them adding items that would boost attributes / training time as it defeats the purpose. As it stands implants offer a couple of benefits over enhancers.

1. Implants are not time limited and so do not induce as much of a grind (if you buy +4s and you go on holiday then the +4s are still there when you get back)

2. Implants are destructible and so fit in the with philosophy of eve and add interesting choices and consequences.

I do think implants should be rebalanced though so that they cost less, and also pirate implants should confer higher attribute bonuses.


The opposite, that is what makes them interesting and gives you a meaningful decision. If you are playing Eve and complaining about having to make choices which result in consequences, ie losing implants, then you probably are playing the wrong game.

I see no problem with rewarding people who log in and get out in space. Having said that, I also travel a lot and it would be irritating to miss out on boosts while away. But maybe that is OK - if you do not log in often you still get the base rate. I'm not sure CCP should balance the game in favour of people who do not log in regularly.

Except it's not the 'base rate'.
Right now the base rate is with a booster. Because the sites are common.

The opposite, that is what makes them interesting and gives you a meaningful decision. If you are playing Eve and complaining about having to make choices which result in consequences, ie losing implants, then you probably are playing the wrong game.

So, here is one of my problems with the new booster. They do not work well with the skill queue. I've been traveling a lot lately. After being deployed for over six months, I flew back home for three days of glorious Eve time - no more logging in on a laptop with a 4G connection to eke out a couple of hours here and there. No, I could actually sit down at my desktop, with two glorious screens, tasty beverages in abundance, and play Eve properly for 10-12 hours straight.

So, I did. I went out exploring. I went looking for these Blood Raider sites. I got a bunch of the new cerebral accelerators - enough to keep all my characters training at a high rate until 2 November. I had a lot of fun gathering them. Running from Russian hordes. Chasing away single Russians. Etc. But one of the greatest joys was plugging in that +12 booster and watching the training time for Caldari Carrier V drop considerably.

Tomorrow I fly off to see my family. The skill queue is a wonderful thing, because if I do not pay close attention to Eve for the next few days, my characters will still keep training away. The OCD in me, however, sees how many "potential SP" I am leaving on the table if I do not find a way to log in all seven characters I am currently training and plug in a new cerebral accelerator every two days.

If I was not able to play Eve at all right now, then perhaps it would not bother me that much... Actually, yes, it would. The whole point of a promotion like this is to make people want to login and get out in space doing things. I want to take advantage of this opportunity.

Now, in the grand scheme of things, this is peanuts for a character of my age, but it is still an issue. I could finish Caldari Carrier V a few days earlier. My alt could finish Cynosural Field Theory V that much sooner. It's taken me right back to eight years ago, when I used to set alarm clocks to log in to add a new skill because Gunnery V was going to finish at 01:57:33 and I'll be damned if I waste six hours worth of skill training.

All Eve subscriptions should be created equal - the only thing you can consistently expect from Eve is that your character will keep training skills so long as you pay your subscription and update your queue. It's the only thing that kept me subscribed for the past six months, when I otherwise could not have justified paying for Eve.

That is why I would rather see everyone train at the same rate - no remaps, no boosters, no implants. Pay your subscription and your character learns at a steady, consistent 2500 SP/hour. The occasional promotion like this is all well and good, especially if it draws people back to the game, but it has to be occasional.

But this is not true. Base rate is unmodified training rate. If you choose to accelerate it, whether this be with easy sites or expensive purchases, this is no longer base rate. I see no problem with having sites which are easy to run. Better that noobs can access without paying vets I think.

I agree that during the promotion the event should be open to as many people as possible. CCP did a pretty decent job with this - the only thing they should have done differently is have the BC spawn in the final cruiser wave, not the first one. Having people spend those extra few minutes in the celestial beacon opens them up to more interaction with other players.

Some people with lots of time on their hands will make a lot of ISK off this promotion. Others will gain some extra SP. I don't really worry about what other people can do in Eve, so long as it's all theoretically available to everyone else.

As long as whatever CCP implements is equally available to all players, I don't really care what they do with the character bazaar, selling SP, purchasing SP, etc. I would simply like to see attribute implants gone, because I want to see them replaced with more implants that benefit the player in space, right now. Not with, "sit in your +5's in safe station/space and avoid risk."

I made a choice long ago that I was not ever going to purchase another character - I would make all my own. I do not care if others want to spend a few hundred dollars catching up with me by purchasing another 2007 character. I do not care if someone else grinds Incursions for 16 hours a day and then buys a new character with his hard earned ISK. By the same token, I do not care if someone sells all those "extra" SP they never use any more. It makes no difference to FT Diomedes. He is who he is.

Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement.

What's wrong with an "as well as" solution rather than an "instead of"?

where are these sites anyway?

Everywhere. There is a lot of competition for them in heavily populated space, though.

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.

As stated, you have an issue with the reasoning, take it up qith ccp where it originated. Aguing with me as if it were my reasoning after i already pointed you at the source isn't too bright an argument.

Read the csm minutes btw. If you did then youd know exactly why I'm pointing this back at ccp. Their "clear position" isn't so clear for those of us that bother to stay informed.

Because it becomes grind for your Xp.
It's just a sneaky way to bring levels into EVE. Since if people have to grind for skills, then they are in space where you can shoot them, so xp grinding and levels should be introduced to EVE and the passive skill queue should be removed right?

One of the big unique draws of EVE is the passive SP gain, and the fact that everyone gains at (roughly) the same pace. Your progress is dictated by where you want to put that Sp.

If these Boosters become regular, then it becomes a grinding game instead.

It had nothing to do with cost.

CSM minutes are in no way a good indication of CCPs official position, it is simply a place where ideas are thrown around and much of it doesn't stick. And even then I still see no source to your wild claim that CCP don't like that implants are destructible.

So again, please link your source (I doubt that you can because what you wrote is not CCPs official or unofficial position and is basically nonsense to try and backup your own argument / desire).

lol as I suspected - Using a booster on a skill that takes 4 days will cut it down to 2 days while the booster is active. Once it's effect is gone, the training time returns to 3 days - So in effect, completely useless on anything that takes longer than 24 hours to train.

You get an extra ~20 k sp per day of booster.

My desire is that implants and attributes stay intact. Not sure what you're implying i need to justify. But I also know CCP proposed the removal of attributes and stated the major barrier was the learning implants and needing to replace them in some form.

Like i said, the reasoning isn'tmine and the conclusion isn't one i endorse, but I also know what's been written. I'm just not in denial about what the devs say is all.

Also: CSM 9 winter meeting minutes and thread stating the attribute were looking at being removed with learning implants as the major barrier.

Importantly, the site can be run in PvP ships. They are therefore very tempting when you are roaming around looking for a fight. They are generating LOTS of content.