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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
443
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Posted - 2015.10.26 16:41:13 -
[1] - Quote
Zkillboard is collecting most of the kills in New Eden. Too bad that they make no useful statistics. The reason for that is inflation (often called "whoring"): if multiple pilots (corps, alliances) are present on a kill, each of them gets a full kill and full ISK value, even if he just shot a titan with a noobship. The result is that according to zkillboard 384T ISK was lost, but pilots got 8264T kills. The second number obviously should be smaller than the first, the difference being losses to NPCs and structures.
Hanura H'arasch managed to download all the zkillboard kills for 2014 and uploaded it for me in a human-readable format, processable by my limited programming skills. I de-inflated the kills: if 100 people were on the kill report of a 200M ship, each of them got 2M destroyed. Alliances and corps were credited for their damage done, so PL got more for their guy in a titan than random corp for their guy in a noobship. My primary goal was to understand how alliances perform against their enemies, (for example, here is the analysis on Goons) however I found something bigger:
- 502778 pilots got on kill reports (as killer or victim), but only 7K was responsible for half of the destruction. Yes, that means that 98.6% of the pilots did the other half. More details here.
- 30K pilots (6%) was over 50% ISK ratio, if we remove inflation. With inflation, everyone and his mother was around 97%. Remember, you needed one shot on a public titan to be ISK positive for the rest of your life.
- The top pilot, Santo Trafficante did 897B damage, without inflation.
- NPC corps were the second biggest killer "alliance". (first being Goonswarm)
- Marmite was #4, CODE was #7
- Top corporation: The Conference Elite
- NC. had 46% ISK ratio, Nulli had 42%
- Deadliest region: Catch. Second: The Forge.
- Top ship loss: Tengu, followed by Ishtar, Archon and Moros.
- 1/6 of the damage was done by a solo pilot. Another 1/6 by a gang of 2 or 3. Fleets over 30 members did less than 1/6 of the damage.
- PvP is heavily EUTZ, 20T/hour was destroyed. USTZ (6T/hour) is barely higher than AUTZ (4T/hour)
I hope these info reveals that most of the myths about EVE PvP (solo is dead, only big sov alliances matter, NC. is elite, YOU ARE OVER 50% ISK ratio) are wrong. Feel free to download the dataset yourself and find things I couldn't.
I analyzed the top 30 alliances (table of contents in any of the linked posts), if you wish more to be analyzed, send 1B to Mordus Angels and an EVE-mail to me on the same pilot.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection
Phoebe Freeport Republic
1064
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Posted - 2015.10.26 17:22:30 -
[2] - Quote
Instead of giving equal splits I.e if 100 people on a 200mil kill each would get 2mill kill I would have distributed the kill according to damage done. That way if I take a pot shot I don't get the equal value as the guy who did 99% damage.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Romvex
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
555
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Posted - 2015.10.26 17:56:13 -
[3] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:Instead of giving equal splits I.e if 100 people on a 200mil kill each would get 2mill kill I would have distributed the kill according to damage done. That way if I take a pot shot I don't get the equal value as the guy who did 99% damage.
Honestly I see no reason for it to not work like this |
Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics
CODE.
432
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Posted - 2015.10.26 18:28:49 -
[4] - Quote
Because who here is responsible for the kill, who did the most damage? |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
449
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:45:10 -
[5] - Quote
I used damage % distribution for alliances and corps. For pilots there was too much crying about "what about logi and tackle who do little damage but necessary"? - so I went with equal distribution.
The two distributions correlate with 0.9 R2, so there is little difference in their results.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
1945
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:56:37 -
[6] - Quote
the 0 damage logi who is just tagging to be on the KM might be more important in the fight than the 2,000 damage dealing cruiser, now is the 2000 damage cruiser more or less important than the 10,000 damage battleship? well depends on what cruiser, if it is the instalock hic, or a curse it might be, a week old pilot in a vexor maybe not. and how about the 12,000 damage tornado that fired one volley to get on the mail and steal the final blow. Or someone who got a few hits in, but then got jammed out, similar probabilities for everyone to get jammed.
dividing it out by number of people on the kill is also flawed (see 0 damage noob ship above), but probably a better way to do it.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
303
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:59:55 -
[7] - Quote
Romvex wrote:Dradis Aulmais wrote:Instead of giving equal splits I.e if 100 people on a 200mil kill each would get 2mill kill I would have distributed the kill according to damage done. That way if I take a pot shot I don't get the equal value as the guy who did 99% damage. Honestly I see no reason for it to not work like this
That would be ideal and would counter whoring and give a much more accurate "what have you actually contributed", atm it favours blob crap. Sadly the damage done bit on KM rarely is truly accurate especially so in fleets. Still, I'd be all for it but I can see people objecting against it for that very reason. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17190
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Posted - 2015.10.26 21:42:17 -
[8] - Quote
EU PvP master race confirmed
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2334
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Posted - 2015.10.26 22:49:50 -
[9] - Quote
I would love to see a de-inflated kill board where only combat ships register. Pop the padders bubbles.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection
Phoebe Freeport Republic
1070
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Posted - 2015.10.26 23:05:40 -
[10] - Quote
I'm a dictor pilot I do no damage and honestly that's fine. I can hold you in place forever but that does me no good killing you.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Mephiztopheleze
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
254
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Posted - 2015.10.26 23:25:42 -
[11] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The top pilot, Santo Trafficante did 897B damage, without inflation.
How much of this was smartbombing pods in Tama?
I'd guess ~100% of it.
edit:
I find it more than passing strange that FomkA made 199 on your list of 'top pilots' with zero damage done and a horrific amount of damage taken when his Ragnarok returned from a two year hiatus only to get insta-blapped.
I think your statistical analysis is somewhat, err, flawed.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
1777
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Posted - 2015.10.26 23:39:31 -
[12] - Quote
Even science says the Code always wins. ALWAYS!
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Yang Aurilen
Conspiracy Theory.
Project.Mayhem.
960
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Posted - 2015.10.27 01:07:44 -
[13] - Quote
Confirming that AU TZ is suffering.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40611
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Posted - 2015.10.27 02:19:17 -
[14] - Quote
Congrats to Paranoid Loyd for top 20/
and to Ima Wreckyou for 74th (pretty close to last year if I remember correctly)
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
452
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Posted - 2015.10.27 05:00:14 -
[15] - Quote
The header before the "toplist" clearly says "Below you can see the most active pilots of 2014, sorted by damage+losses." FomkA is indeed the #199 contributor to the 2014 killboard, just not on the happy side.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Curossa Carmalyne
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.10.27 05:07:15 -
[16] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Zkillboard is collecting most of the kills in New Eden. Too bad that they make no useful statistics. The reason for that is inflation (often called "whoring"): if multiple pilots (corps, alliances) are present on a kill, each of them gets a full kill and full ISK value, even if he just shot a titan with a noobship. The result is that according to zkillboard 384T ISK was lost, but pilots got 8264T kills. The second number obviously should be smaller than the first, the difference being losses to NPCs and structures. Hanura H'arasch managed to download all the zkillboard kills for 2014 and uploaded it for me in a human-readable format, processable by my limited programming skills. I de-inflated the kills: if 100 people were on the kill report of a 200M ship, each of them got 2M destroyed. Alliances and corps were credited for their damage done, so PL got more for their guy in a titan than random corp for their guy in a noobship. My primary goal was to understand how alliances perform against their enemies, (for example, here is the analysis on Goons) however I found something bigger:
- 502778 pilots got on kill reports (as killer or victim), but only 7K was responsible for half of the destruction. Yes, that means that 98.6% of the pilots did the other half. More details here.
- 30K pilots (6%) was over 50% ISK ratio, if we remove inflation. With inflation, everyone and his mother was around 97%. Remember, you needed one shot on a public titan to be ISK positive for the rest of your life.
- The top pilot, Santo Trafficante did 897B damage, without inflation.
- NPC corps were the second biggest killer "alliance". (first being Goonswarm)
- Marmite was #4, CODE was #7
- Top corporation: The Conference Elite
- NC. had 46% ISK ratio, Nulli had 42%
- Deadliest region: Catch. Second: The Forge.
- Top ship loss: Tengu, followed by Ishtar, Archon and Moros.
- 1/6 of the damage was done by a solo pilot. Another 1/6 by a gang of 2 or 3. Fleets over 30 members did less than 1/6 of the damage.
- PvP is heavily EUTZ, 20T/hour was destroyed. USTZ (6T/hour) is barely higher than AUTZ (4T/hour)
I hope these info reveals that most of the myths about EVE PvP (solo is dead, only big sov alliances matter, NC. is elite, YOU ARE OVER 50% ISK ratio) are wrong. Feel free to download the dataset yourself and find things I couldn't. I analyzed the top 30 alliances (table of contents in any of the linked posts), if you wish more to be analyzed, send 1B to Mordus Angels and an EVE-mail to me on the same pilot.
......................
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40612
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Posted - 2015.10.27 05:28:16 -
[17] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The top pilot, Santo Trafficante did 897B damage, without inflation.
How much of this was smartbombing pods in Tama? I'd guess ~100% of it.
There's no need to guess. You can just go to zkillboard and look.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Obadja
Industrial Command
League of Unaligned Master Pilots
29
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Posted - 2015.10.27 07:09:34 -
[18] - Quote
Thank you for using your time to present us this data.
The EVE mantras:
# Don't fly what you cannot afford to loose ## Work in RL Play in Eve ## Don't build a relationship towards your ship, it won't hold ## Press F12, do the Career Agent missions ##
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
1777
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Posted - 2015.10.27 07:41:32 -
[19] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Congrats to Paranoid Loyd for top 20.
and to Ima Wreckyou for 74th (pretty close to last year if I remember correctly)
Thanks. This character was born in december of 2013 and did not do anything until january 2014. So this should be the first year I am on that list  . So much about all the tears about SP and 'catching up'
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Ray P
State Protectorate
Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.10.27 09:28:27 -
[20] - Quote
Faction war corps? |
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Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2015.10.27 10:02:47 -
[21] - Quote
Much more interesting:
Concord (a pure npc corp) has 959k kills, by far the "best" corp in terms of numbers killed, that should tell anyone all they need to know about this game.
Also, according to some other kill board, the Concord police captain is, again, the month's champ.
There was a time in this game when concord npcs did not even make the monthly top 20. In this day and age it is an astounding accomplishment to beat the concord npc to the monthly top spot. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
40615
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Posted - 2015.10.27 10:17:35 -
[22] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Much more interesting:
Concord (a pure npc corp) has 959k kills, by far the "best" corp in terms of numbers killed, that should tell anyone all they need to know about this game.
Also, according to some other kill board, the Concord police captain is, again, the month's champ.
There was a time in this game when concord npcs did not even make the monthly top 20. In this day and age it is an astounding accomplishment to beat the concord npc to the monthly top spot.
The figures for CONCORD measure every gank ship killed, where gankers that kill together in a fleet have just the one kill.
So a fleet of 30 cataysts ends up 1 kill, CONCORD 30 kills.
It kind of makes it difficult to compare stats now against past periods as the process of ganking has changed and become more organised.
Additionally, for gank kills in major ganking systems, 1 ship kill might also have a number of other gank losses to CONCORD in the process of pulling CONCORD away from a gate.
So it could be even more ship kills to CONCORD for every 1 ship killed by gankers.
There's not really a lot to read into that in the end.
Obviously that's not the same in every situation, but it makes figures a bit tough to compare.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
1781
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Posted - 2015.10.27 11:53:43 -
[23] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Much more interesting:
Concord (a pure npc corp) has 959k kills, by far the "best" corp in terms of numbers killed, that should tell anyone all they need to know about this game.
Also, according to some other kill board, the Concord police captain is, again, the month's champ.
There was a time in this game when concord npcs did not even make the monthly top 20. In this day and age it is an astounding accomplishment to beat the concord npc to the monthly top spot.
Yes, it means that CONCORD is too powerful, since it takes ~20 ships to suicide gank one.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Ares Desideratus
Minmatar Brotherhood
Ushra'Khan
287
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Posted - 2015.10.27 12:50:27 -
[24] - Quote
I've always said that killmails and killboards are completely broken and stupid. One ship dies, and 100 players get a "kill". That makes no sense at all. Whoever gets final blow should be the only one to get a "kill", you can still show the people who whored on the killmail for the sake of intel if you must.
The reason killmails are multiplicative is to perpetuate blob warfare and that's it. The way it works players in a 100 vs 100 blob, if all 200 players die, each players gets 100 "kills" while only losing one ship, so you can blob and be terrible while still looking good on the killboards. It's the dumbest thing ever. Just a spaceship circle jerk with no skill. |
Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
402
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Posted - 2015.10.27 12:51:58 -
[25] - Quote
All hail the mighty PvP-ers! What an example they are to gaming! Babies stop your nursing! It's the mother ship!
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Yes, it means that CONCORD is too powerful, since it takes ~20 ships to suicide gank one.
Duct tape wrapped tightly around the keyboard helps with this kind of shiptoasting.
Fear of death follows from fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. -Mark Twain -
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
12811
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Posted - 2015.10.27 13:05:37 -
[26] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:I've always said that killmails and killboards are completely broken and stupid. One ship dies, and 100 players get a "kill". That makes no sense at all. Whoever gets final blow should be the only one to get a "kill", you can still show the people who whored on the killmail for the sake of intel if you must.
The reason killmails are multiplicative is to perpetuate blob warfare and that's it. The way it works players in a 100 vs 100 blob, if all 200 players die, each players gets 100 "kills" while only losing one ship, so you can blob and be terrible while still looking good on the killboards. It's the dumbest thing ever. Just a spaceship circle jerk with no skill.
This is a misunderstanding of the situation. If the only person who got a kill mail was the guy who lucked up on the final blow, many fewer people would participate, and everyone who did would jsut fly glass cannon "killmail generator" ships that yolo about stupidly.
Killmails serve the purpose of making people feel involved in combat (the idea that they exist to 'promote' anything is ridiculous, Blobs happen because people are human). Last fight between my alliance and goons, I know i didn't get '35 kill's, i just got on 35 killmails and only had 3 final blows. But 35 angry as hell looking Bee icons on my killboard sure did feel better than 3, even if I personally knew it was an illusion. Take that away and many would feel less involved.
At best, the only thing that would work is dividing mails between "kill reports" (for the guy who got the final blow) and "kill-assist reports" for everyone else. But the current kill report system works fine. |
Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions
Mortum Ravagers
28
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Posted - 2015.10.27 13:23:16 -
[27] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:if we remove inflation.
k, wat? |
Ares Desideratus
Minmatar Brotherhood
Ushra'Khan
287
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Posted - 2015.10.27 13:58:27 -
[28] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is a misunderstanding of the situation. If the only person who got a kill mail was the guy who lucked up on the final blow, many fewer people would participate, and everyone who did would jsut fly glass cannon "killmail generator" ships that yolo about stupidly.
You're saying people would stop participating if they weren't e-stroked by killboards and I disagree. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6907
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Posted - 2015.10.27 14:03:38 -
[29] - Quote
The thing is, with all of that analysis it's still no real different from just looking at zkillboard. Context of a kill and an individual pilots roles in it isn't logged, so none of it relates to actual skill. Someone firing a single noobship shot at a titan clearly isn't as skilled as someone taking down a decently fit and piloted frigate, yet they will gain significantly more value for their shot. Additionally support players won't show at all on kills for the most part, and are generally critical to any larger scale battle.
As for "solo isn't dead", this doesn't prove that either. Someone oneshotting one of the 200 ships in a battle isn't "solo". Hell, even half the kills that do actually appear solo aren't even solo because there will be boosters or logi in many of the cases.
Honestly, you can take this data and pretty much tell any story you want. It doesn't actually mean anything though since that's all it is. A story.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
1781
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Posted - 2015.10.27 15:27:03 -
[30] - Quote
Funny how the usual suspects are crying about this while they are busy making some **** up about why the calculations are not relevant. Also funny how they are not even on the list which should obviously tell us a lot about their relevance.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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