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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.04 04:04:00 -
[121]
And it still comes down to two things:
1) Dictating how another player enjoys the game: "Give them the push they need". Personally I don't need a push into a PC corp, been there done that. And its Empire grief corps that drove me out of the same PC corp. If we wanted to be fighting all the time we wouldn't be here, and if CCP didn't want us to have options there wouldn't be any High Sec areas.
2) Making them targets, you can't war dec them and shoot them. Your point is again? Maybe some of us want to be peaceful citizens, that is what High Sec is about: not using "Game Mechanics" to war dec small PC corps so you can shoot them in High Sec (which is what the above mentioned griefers do).
Being in a NPC corp to avoid having to fight all the time is no more exploiting game mechanics than using the War Dec to declare war on a Corp you have no beef with except they exist and you are bored with hunting in empty LoSec areas. This happens more than most of you seem to realize, maybe you should try running your alts in a small peaceful Carebear Corp for a while and get out of your big alliances. And don't even bother with the "You can join the big alliance for protection", all that means is that some other big alliances that come wandering through can obliterate your little corp before your "protection" even comes in the same sector. Instead of dealing with small groups of gankers you instead get to have the privledge of potentially thousands of people that might wander through and decide to shoot at you.
The only legitimate reason I have seen posted so far is the war targets and alliances that drop to provide supplies under protection of a NPC corp. But you do realize that doing such is a petitionable offense, why don't you use the existing game mechanics instead of attacking our way of enjoying the game? Think of the nice person at the grocery store, why can't I be that in this universe? Doing our own thing with our friends, not interfering with others' enjoyment of the game. Its not that hard, is it? <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=426616
LowSec != NoSec
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Spei Prodetor
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Posted - 2007.01.04 05:07:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby And it still comes down to two things:
1) Dictating how another player enjoys the game: "Give them the push they need". Personally I don't need a push into a PC corp, been there done that. And its Empire grief corps that drove me out of the same PC corp. If we wanted to be fighting all the time we wouldn't be here, and if CCP didn't want us to have options there wouldn't be any High Sec areas.
2) Making them targets, you can't war dec them and shoot them. Your point is again? Maybe some of us want to be peaceful citizens, that is what High Sec is about: not using "Game Mechanics" to war dec small PC corps so you can shoot them in High Sec (which is what the above mentioned griefers do).
Being in a NPC corp to avoid having to fight all the time is no more exploiting game mechanics than using the War Dec to declare war on a Corp you have no beef with except they exist and you are bored with hunting in empty LoSec areas. This happens more than most of you seem to realize, maybe you should try running your alts in a small peaceful Carebear Corp for a while and get out of your big alliances. And don't even bother with the "You can join the big alliance for protection", all that means is that some other big alliances that come wandering through can obliterate your little corp before your "protection" even comes in the same sector. Instead of dealing with small groups of gankers you instead get to have the privledge of potentially thousands of people that might wander through and decide to shoot at you.
The only legitimate reason I have seen posted so far is the war targets and alliances that drop to provide supplies under protection of a NPC corp. But you do realize that doing such is a petitionable offense, why don't you use the existing game mechanics instead of attacking our way of enjoying the game? Think of the nice person at the grocery store, why can't I be that in this universe? Doing our own thing with our friends, not interfering with others' enjoyment of the game. Its not that hard, is it?
Neither of those have anything to do with tax =) I'm personally for the taxing of NPC corps because its needed to balance it out. If someone wants to pay x% tax on all sales they make and not have to worry bout wars then tahts fine all im saying is Risk VS Reward right now the rewards are greater in npc corps then the risk. Tax would help to resolve some of this to a degree. In which the rewards are lessened as a penalty for having less risk. Adding a tax neither dictates how a player plays the game nor does it make anyone a target. It simply makes less reward for the same amount of risk. which is perfectly fair imho
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Tachy
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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:07:00 -
[123]
Sales aren't taxed in EVE.
NPC pilots supplying LowSec/NulSec corps/alliances: Shoot them. You alreays want more targets and you should not restrict yourself.
If you see someone avoid a war, send in a petition. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:21:00 -
[124]
Everyone who's said this makes no sense is right. It doesn't. It will do nothing to help anything, needlessly hurts and is pretty much people complaining about...well I don't know exactly.
And specifically, re: macroers - they mine. Oh but they need to sell? Well yeah...they'll just transfer all the minerals to someone in a 1 man player corp, who'll sell them. You could war dec him all you like but he's never going to undock.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:29:00 -
[125]
I propose a 15% tax on all assets of individuals that propose taxes on NPC corps. :)
-- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Draqun
Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:47:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Saint Juniper NPC corps are being used to turn godmode on for alliance/corporation logistics.
Your freighter/industrials under the NPC flag move all your goods 100% riskless. While it's true if they were under a player corp they could just reform, this means 24h of inmobilization. Repeat ad nauseaum and their logistics get crippled.
This problem has a much easier solution: don't allow freighters or T2 transports to undock under a NPC flag.
. . .
ROFLOL
what game are you playing?
Seriously what game are you playing?
Ive seen plenty of NPC corp haulers and freighters get poped in both high sec Even AFTER the Kali patch (Granted theis were auto pilot morons who dont seem to know that W20 is so fast that you might as well hanger if you cant be arsed to fly any other way)
Also i do HATE to be the one to burst your clueless bubble here. . .
. . . the ones who take advantage of your imaginary NPC corp imunity?
Inclueds the Developers. . . .
you keep trying to pretend this is a PvP game
its a CCPvP game
the second you realise that, the sooner you will actualy have fun and start playing the game!
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First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve
your not paranoid enough to play Eve |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.04 08:06:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Saint Juniper NPC corps are being used to turn godmode on for alliance/corporation logistics.
Your freighter/industrials under the NPC flag move all your goods 100% riskless. While it's true if they were under a player corp they could just reform, this means 24h of inmobilization. Repeat ad nauseaum and their logistics get crippled.
This problem has a much easier solution: don't allow freighters or T2 transports to undock under a NPC flag.
My point exactly. If warring corps/alliances want to boot their logistics into an NPC corp, they can at least run the gauntlet of suicide gankers in T1 haulers.
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Alaric Rurk
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Posted - 2007.01.04 08:25:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Alaric Rurk on 04/01/2007 08:32:15 The point of this being? To encourage players to leave the NPC corporations and join a player corporation?
In other words, you want me to go join your corporation which nine times out of ten will fall apart within six months no matter how much work I put into it? That's if the CEO doesn't just disappear one day, possibly taking all of the corporation's assets with him?
Uh, no? |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.01.04 08:50:00 -
[129]
"NPC corps are being used to turn godmode on for alliance/corporation logistics.
Your freighter/industrials under the NPC flag move all your goods 100% riskless. While it's true if they were under a player corp they could just reform, this means 24h of inmobilization. Repeat ad nauseaum and their logistics get crippled.
This problem has a much easier solution: don't allow freighters or T2 transports to undock under a NPC flag."
Hahahah ya right sorry to much BS for me to take. When people are suicide ganked in empire and complain the official word from the vets and supposed pro's is " no where in eve is 100% safe " But here you are spewing crap about godmode. Look if you are so into PVP and corp wars get your chicken arse out to 0.0 and it is no longer an issue. Stop clinging onto empire and being a war deccing bully.
Anyrate last I checked apparently empire is not 100% safe, you simply lack the conviction to do what is needed to kill that frieghter moving supplies for your enemy. Sounds like your problem not an npc issue.
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Robacz
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.04 09:32:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Verus Potestas Does it make sense?
This is not new idea, it is coming back in 2-3 week cycles. The answer is NO.
NPC Corp members have already restrictions, no need to introduce new. Also NPC corp is where new player starts, new player needs money = taxes are bad idea.
What you want to do, is to force older players to leave NPC Corps. Well CCP already stated, that they do no wish to force players to do so, even though they want to encourage them to join player driven corporations. Hence the extra features of player corps and POSes for example. 0.0 is also not very friendly space for NPC Corp members, another restriction.
___________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers |
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Lady Loom
Red Mercury Industries Legiones Astartes
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Posted - 2007.01.04 10:33:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Dark Shikari You're not going to get wardecced unless:
1. Your corporation is so large that you present a target of opportunity
or
2. You have ****ed someone off.
Therefore, staying in an NPC corporation allows you to anger anyone you want, all you want, but they have no recourse against you.
sorry DS, that's simply not true - you don't need to **** someone off to get your corp wardecced. Maybe it won't happen to a 2-3 player corp with people who are rarely online together, but as soon as you start to show yourself (like by running missions 24/7, or mining in the same few systems with only few people online at a time) it's just a matter of time until the oh-so-funnay pwnzor corps WILL wardec your arse, because they can, and because they want to shoot carebears. My corp has been the target of a pirate corp who just wanted to pew pew indtrialist carebears in high-sec, and then again of an individual with too much time and money who held a grudge for over 4 months because some of our members mined some of the ore he wanted to strip a whole system of, said individual wardecced us for three weeks, podding a real newbie in the process. I accept this risk and don't wanna whine about it here, this is just to show you that the million-a-week doesn't keep bored people from wardeccing inexperienced noobs just for the sake of it. They don't need a reason.
Speaking of your "risk vs. reward" mantra - care to tell me about the risk of said pirate corps with a decent number of experienced PvPers wardeccing some small player corp consisting of people who never shot anything but NPCs? And don't come up with crap like everyone having to get 1337 friends and allies to defend vs. wardecs of really bored people. Because then you should be honest and ask for the removal of carebear content (and therefore a large part of EVE's player base) in favour of more nber pwnzor hardcore not-for-kiddies PvP content.
Macro miners won't care because income doesn't get taxed and if it was they'd just make a one-man player corp to sell their ore/minerals with, while still mining with NPC corp chars (who are BTW easier to steal ore from THANKS to them being in NPC corps, because you only aggro the individual players you steal from, not a whole corp). ISK farmers will only care if their source of income is plexes, the lucrative plexes are in low-sec so I don't see why you can't just shoot them anyway.
So the only people this proposal would affect are hardcore NPCers, and besides the oddball who smack talks you, I don't see why anyone needs to wardec them. Kill them if they go to low-sec. If it's a single idiot, by all means hunt him down in high-sec and take the CONCORD penalty, even do it with one of these flashy 800k SP alts. But wardec? That's just stupid overkill - like the OP's idea.
Besides, if people made enough ISK from missions for low taxes to matter, they'll make a one-man corp, and at the first sign of danger (ie. the moment you wardec them for whatever reasons) another one or go back to a NPC corp for a while. So I don't see what exactly you plan to achieve with a change like this, really. Yeah, you say "risk vs. reward", but where's there huge reward which isn't greater in a player corp besides being safe from wardeccing griefers? Where's the risk they're not taking which player corps do besides of wardecs?
[[ power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat ]] |
Jouno
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.04 10:57:00 -
[132]
Make it 100% tax ktnxbye
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2007.01.04 11:02:00 -
[133]
Stupid idea tbh.
For starter player corps taxes you get something in return (lots of money, loot, sexual favours).
In a starter corp you don't. In fact your more liable to be gunned down by someone in your own starter corp.
Prehaps as a player corp offer something that would force people to move to your corp rather then trying to punish them into it.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.01.05 06:35:00 -
[134]
Disagreed, because it won't tax macro-miners (afaik?), won't stop logistics alts, and the other benefits aren't compelling enough for me.
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Michael Lonewolf
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.05 06:48:00 -
[135]
From what I can tell it's the pirate wannabes, you know, the mediocre kinda half-assed pirates that want everyone to be able to be attacked. That way they'll be able to nail the players who just aren't very good or uninterested in PvP, they want more reward with less risk. What a bunch of cry babies. First of all, there are bigger rewards for a lot of things outside of "safe" space...so you can beat up on people who are more prepared there. Oh wait, they don't want PREPARED targets...they just want to win, god forbid they fight players who are interested in that part of the game. Also, let's face it, from an RP standpoint there'd HAVE to be a safe place for people to generate the economy of EVE, otherwise there'd be no economy, no ships, no nothin', just a few lame pirates in duct taped ships taking pot shots at anything they can. God, what a bunch of whiners "wahhhh they wanna be CAREBEARS and stay in HIGH SEC SPACE and I can't shoot them! WAHHHHHH!" I have no respect for this point of view.
Oh yeah, I like being in the NPC corp, so screw you for trying to push me out, call me a care bear, but I don't have to try to prove my manhood in an online game. I enjoy the game just fine as it is.
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2007.01.05 07:01:00 -
[136]
To the op, no. m'kay, so risk vs reward you want to be able to target your enemy's logistics which they run through newbie corp membership.
How is a tax going to stop this ? The newbie corp alts run the logistics, mining, moving stuff round and hand off the product to a member to your target alliance to sell / process / consume and that handler never undocks. They pay no tax, they're still invulnerable and you gain nothing.
The only people who get taxed are 3 month or older characters who are running agent missions at lvl 3 or above. Those pose a grave threat to your corps i'm sure. Oh wait.... You just want to gank agent runners. Why didn't you say so?
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Xenny Lee
Minmatar The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.05 07:16:00 -
[137]
Mission runners would just make a one man corp that they would disband if someone war deced ya... What part does if you the other person doesnt want to pew pew, and stays in 0.5 and above do ya not understand... Its a part of the game, call em carebears, traders, mission *** or whatever but if they dont want to join your 10% tax corp and help you fight whatever thats their business. Yes its not healthy to be flooding the market with isk all the time... but IMO 0.0 ratters have a much bigger impact on that then mission runners (which melt loot and sell named stuff and basically have no effect on the T2 market other then buying stuff for personal use)
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Malikton
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Posted - 2007.01.05 07:19:00 -
[138]
I've seen it in every MMO I've ever played, people shouting "Hey Verant, Sony, Blizzard....make everybody play the game the way I want them to!".
If CCP decide to nerf the return on mission running - so be it, if they decide to tax NPC corps so be it...its their game ultimately, but they aren't going to do anything which will lose them a significant chunk of their paying customers.
I can't help wondering - if there were two clusters, one for the carebears, and one for the borderline psychopaths, which would have the bigger population?
Taxation of NPC corps wouldn't make me quit personally, but it wouldn't make me run to the arms of an Alliance corp, where I get the privelege of being a serf who gets to enrich others while bankrupting myself.
Meantime I'll play the game to the rules as they currently are.
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Draqun
Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.05 08:10:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Xenny Lee Mission runners would just make a one man corp that they would disband if someone war deced ya...
Heck thats not their only option even!
the best one is to just move 10-20 jumps away and let their opoents try to figure out where they are now. (for that mater mission runners tend to move anyway just to get the next higher set of agents) or just roll out the alt for a week. ---------------------------------------
First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve
your not paranoid enough to play Eve |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.05 09:30:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Draqun
Originally by: Xenny Lee Mission runners would just make a one man corp that they would disband if someone war deced ya...
Heck thats not their only option even!
the best one is to just move 10-20 jumps away and let their opoents try to figure out where they are now. (for that mater mission runners tend to move anyway just to get the next higher set of agents) or just roll out the alt for a week.
Hehehe. Never been hunted, have you?
Agents will tell you where your enemies are. Your enemy's faction standings tell you where they are. Run one mission and those that are hunting you are waiting the next evening.....
Been there, done that. From both sides <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=426616
LowSec != NoSec
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.05 09:57:00 -
[141]
Something for teh carebears. Remember eve was made to be PVP game and many many here came to geta non consensual PVP game. Developers do want it. Its the concept of game that after some time getting used ot teh game you are not imune to pvp anymore even in empire . People like pirates in NPC corps that hide in empire as soon as they are hunted. This are exploiting kind of say a weakness in system. That is why
You should BE FORCED TO PVP! And I really don't care if you are a coward, when you experiment it you will enjoy it.
NPC corps should BOOT you after 2 months! NPC corps are for noobs. Most carebears have billions in ships.. what is the problem of time to time they need to move a few systems to aovid a wardec (if tehy really want to avoid combat.. or loosign a few ships?)
I fact maybe remove all high sec but a single region.... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:06:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "NPC corps are being used to turn godmode on for alliance/corporation logistics.
Your freighter/industrials under the NPC flag move all your goods 100% riskless. While it's true if they were under a player corp they could just reform, this means 24h of inmobilization. Repeat ad nauseaum and their logistics get crippled.
This problem has a much easier solution: don't allow freighters or T2 transports to undock under a NPC flag."
Hahahah ya right sorry to much BS for me to take. When people are suicide ganked in empire and complain the official word from the vets and supposed pro's is " no where in eve is 100% safe " But here you are spewing crap about godmode. Look if you are so into PVP and corp wars get your chicken arse out to 0.0 and it is no longer an issue. Stop clinging onto empire and being a war deccing bully.
Anyrate last I checked apparently empire is not 100% safe, you simply lack the conviction to do what is needed to kill that frieghter moving supplies for your enemy. Sounds like your problem not an npc issue.
when was the last time you saw a freighter get ganked in empire? you know you need several several batteships to try doing that? And by several i mean a ridiculowsly high number.
And for the one sthat beleive war decing and griefing is common. I am in a PC corp that has 12 members and keep in empire and low sec. For 3 months we have never ever been wardeced. And we do make a lot to make people war dec us.
MAybe one day a rich alliance will offer free BS to blow up npc corps ships that are not frigates). Than we may change mind of those excessively carebears.
And ooo " i have the right of playing teh game as i want"... and I have the right to want to play as I want, try to force you to do so, and ignore all your wishes since that is what I want.. and we are in a "free world" If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Hotice
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:06:00 -
[143]
I don't think there should be any tax for people in npc corp. Before the pvp and this whole risk vs. reward thing, Eve is a MMO first. People who pays their bill have their rights to pick and choose the style of game play that fits them the best. If some of them choose to stay in npc corp, then let them. I see no reason to punish them for it. There are enough player corps around already. Just go wardec them if you want. Nobody forced you to join a player corp. Those of us who did that willingly. Why are you guys keep picking on those who didn't go along your path?
This is a game, let people have their own fun. I think Eve is big enough to fits all player style instead of just one kind. I think you guys are just worry about how others play their game too much. It is time to just play you own game for a change. That is unless you guys just cannot stand to see other people being happy.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:11:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Hotice I don't think there should be any tax for people in npc corp. Before the pvp and this whole risk vs. reward thing, Eve is a MMO first. People who pays their bill have their rights to pick and choose the style of game play that fits them the best. If some of them choose to stay in npc corp, then let them. I see no reason to punish them for it. There are enough player corps around already. Just go wardec them if you want. Nobody forced you to join a player corp. Those of us who did that willingly. Why are you guys keep picking on those who didn't go along your path?
This is a game, let people have their own fun. I think Eve is big enough to fits all player style instead of just one kind. I think you guys are just worry about how others play their game too much. It is time to just play you own game for a change. That is unless you guys just cannot stand to see other people being happy.
Don't you get it? Alliance and PVP corps are using alts in npc corps to bypass the pvp world. That is what mainly needs to be changed. And yes.. you have no right to play as you want .. you need to play as I want because my right to don't give c r a p about how you want to play is as big as your right to play as you want" If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Spanker
Genco
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:24:00 -
[145]
Wouldn't people just keep the bulk of their isk on alts if the 15% thing doesn't come in to effect until you've reached a certain wealth?
- Shpank |
Cupertino
Castellum
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:26:00 -
[146]
Membership of an NPC corp is an unfair advantage. Only the newest of players should be allowed to live in this protective 'bubble'.
/signed
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Malikton
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:45:00 -
[147]
I am intrigued, how can something be an unfair advantage when it is available to everybody?
I suspect what you mean is that it is an advantage for those people who do not elect to play the game in the same way that you do.
The key word there is "elect" - it is (as the rules currently are) a choice. Until or unless CCP change those rules, expect people to choose to play the game the way they want to.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:48:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Malikton
I am intrigued, how can something be an unfair advantage when it is available to everybody?
I suspect what you mean is that it is an advantage for those people who do not elect to play the game in the same way that you do.
The key word there is "elect" - it is (as the rules currently are) a choice. Until or unless CCP change those rules, expect people to choose to play the game the way they want to.
its ufair becaus epeople tah telected to play as we do use it on alts to circunvent the disadvantages of playing like we do.
Also you are playing not as the game was made to be played. So we have all the right to complain and want you to loose all your shgips isk, and get your portrid changed to a monkey on fire. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Alliaanna Dalaii
Gallente Does Not Compute
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:48:00 -
[149]
Please not overwealming majority of players objecting being alt's in nub corps.
**** me sideways winston, I wonder why that is
Freighter + NPC corp + 0.5+ = GODMODE
Clearly wrong, NPC corps are not meant for older players. They're for newer members to get a foothold in Eve. Not for Vet's to try to make their own "No-PvP flag"
Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
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Cupertino
Castellum
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:55:00 -
[150]
Quote: I am intrigued, how can something be an unfair advantage when it is available to everybody?
It is unfair that you expect to take part in Eve while remaining immune to declarations of war.
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