The other "counters" to links require greater input and skill on the part of the player. They aren't afk-able, and actually killing the links ship requires more than 1 additional account. So yes, the most efficient solution by far is to bring your own, rather than dedicating multiple players/accounts towards hunting them which usually just results in the link abuser running away.

The other "counters" to links require greater input and skill on the part of the player. They aren't afk-able, and actually killing the links ship requires more than 1 additional account. So yes, the most efficient solution by far is to bring your own, rather than dedicating multiple players/accounts towards hunting them which usually just results in the link abuser running away.

I believe Thantos Marathon kind of proved that hunting links is actually not that hard.

See: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454826&p=3

So you are saying killing all those boosters was easy!?

Honestly you are whining more than just about anyone I know. If you are willing to back up that whine I have a proposal.

Ten arranged 1 v 1 fights between you and me. You pick the hull classes you want to fight with. I will place 1 billion isk on it that I win 7 or more of our fights.

My only ground rules are:
1) no links and we must be in in the same fleet with just us two
2) we use a Gall Mill controlled station system so you can reship
3) T2 and meta fittings only...no faction, ded, or officer
4) no implants because I will pod you
5) BS hulls and down
6) we each must front the 1 billion to be held by a 3rd party before the first fight begins
7) spectators welcome as long as they don't interfere....interference means the fight is voided and does not count toward the 10


What say you?

Burt

With good planning and lots of alpha. Sure.

Honestly you are whining more than just about anyone I know. If you are willing to back up that whine I have a proposal.

Ten arranged 1 v 1 fights between you and me. You pick the hull classes you want to fight with. I will place 1 billion isk on it that I win 7 or more of our fights.

My only ground rules are:
1) no links and we must be in in the same fleet with just us two
2) we use a Gall Mill controlled station system so you can reship
3) T2 and meta fittings only...no faction, ded, or officer
4) no implants because I will pod you
5) BS hulls and down
6) we each must front the 1 billion to be held by a 3rd party before the first fight begins
7) spectators welcome as long as they don't interfere....interference means the fight is voided and does not count toward the 10


What say you?

Burt

As I said, requires more than one nado alt so you're looking at mismatched numbers already. Purely for purposes of countering links, the best solution is to bring your own. This represents a poor mechanic.

Honestly you are whining more than just about anyone I know. If you are willing to back up that whine I have a proposal.

Ten arranged 1 v 1 fights between you and me. You pick the hull classes you want to fight with. I will place 1 billion isk on it that I win 7 or more of our fights.

My only ground rules are:
1) no links and we must be in in the same fleet with just us two
2) we use a Gall Mill controlled station system so you can reship
3) T2 and meta fittings only...no faction, ded, or officer
4) no implants because I will pod you
5) BS hulls and down
6) we each must front the 1 billion to be held by a 3rd party before the first fight begins
7) spectators welcome as long as they don't interfere....interference means the fight is voided and does not count toward the 10


What say you?

Burt

"here have some 30% blanket stat boost cos you were so good at this game that you got an alt".

That argument is not really valid when:


I can haul 100% more items if I also use an alt than I can with only my main.

I can add 100% more dps to a fight by using an alt and have 100% more to tank on field.



So the truth is - links are actually 70% underpowered for the investment.

and in a fleet of 251 your links have a apparent overpowered 750% investment.


It's not on grid or off grid that was the problems but we will have to see what CCP are doing with all the inbound changes to decide whether they are getting some balance.

As "on grid" means many many kilometres, probing will still be required. LOL at all the whine complaining about whine.

The real balancing that is required will be missed, as usual. So T3C boosters in low sec will continue to only die from silly mistakes (sorry Thanatos but that is what I think).

and in a fleet of 251 your links have a apparent overpowered 750% investment.


It's not on grid or off grid that was the problems but we will have to see what CCP are doing with all the inbound changes to decide whether they are getting some balance.

As "on grid" means many many kilometres, probing will still be required. LOL at all the whine complaining about whine.

The real balancing that is required will be missed, as usual. So T3C boosters in low sec will continue to only die from silly mistakes (sorry Thanatos but that is what I think).

That argument is not really valid when:


I can haul 100% more items if I also use an alt than I can with only my main.

I can add 100% more dps to a fight by using an alt and have 100% more to tank on field.






So the truth is - links are actually 70% underpowered for the investment.

What was really sad is that if they had just parked a Command Ship on the undock, they would have gotten a better return. Command ships can do the same role and still have tank. Start taking a hit, dock up.

Links on grid will be cool. Especially since grid is now 8000km. Still gonna need those probers.

What is the distance from the plex acc gate to the beacon? about 10,000km?

The advantage links provide to kiting setups is far more valuable than just bringing +1 character on-grid which will require far more active input than a links alt.

Crosi brings links instead of a logi alt because the logi alt doesn't enable him to remain on-grid indefinitely against an enemy fleet. Nor would a Falcon alt or anything else. Links are the critical cornerstone of the presently supreme nano kite meta and their risk/reward considerations are vastly out of sync with any other conceivable alt roles.

Which is the crux of the matter. The nano kite elite pvp gods don't want to see their playstyle get nerfed, which is understandable. But the fact that this play style is more a function of paying a second sub than any combination of player skill and decision-making should raise red flags for any honest observer.

CC's don't have the risk free mobility though. Of they get caught on a gate by a fleet they're dead. It still takes *I believe* a minimum of three fully skilled nados to alpha a single LSE booster T3.

. Brawling is for chumps.

Posts like these are missing the point of why OGBs are so terrible.

The stats you gain from an AFK T3 alt are insanely over powered for their price, this is well documented. You get advantages you can't get anywhere else in the game for such a cheap price.

On top of those epic bonuses, the AFK T3 alt can also Cov Ops cloak, is very difficult to probe down, is interdiction nullified, and so is at very little risk itself.

Plus, the idea of creating a second account, training it for six months (just a vague estimation, I don't care if I'm technically wrong; I think you can get the point), and then dragging this secret alt around with you everywhere you go for PvP, is just really lame gameplay, I mean come on, that is such garbage. Does anyone really feel good or have fun dragging a Loki around with their main everywhere they go so that they can be risk averse with a cloaky nullified scout that boosts them from a safe spot every time they decide they want to fight? Sorry but that is just plain stupid.

I have an alt that just finished training for Loki, I used it a few times last month (I admit the actual PvP I did was pretty fun), but I've put it away and I'm going to sell the account (or the character, I'm not exactly sure how that works) based on principle. This type of gameplay is just too boring. It's boring, it's lame, it's any bad word you want to call it, but it's anything but interesting.

Of course links are not the only thing that matters, or they won't win you every fight, and it's not impossible to beat someone who used links, but that's all beside the point; links are insanely OP, they're relatively inexpensive, there's almost no risk involved in using them, and the gameplay itself that they provide is just garbage. It's an AFK second account that sits in space and gives your ship steroids. Wow, so awesome. /s

Links are cancer. They're the opposite of fun or interesting gameplay and they're completely imbalanced.

That's all I have to say about that. It's the last post I'll make in this thread, I didn't want to post in here again because it's redundant but I couldn't sleep thinking about it :D

Links are going to get fixed, you can be sure of that. There's no way around it, it's obvious how bad they are and a change is inevitable.

Links on grid will be cool. Especially since grid is now 8000km. Still gonna need those probers.

I'll take your challenge. I'm not putting a billion ISK on it. If you want to prove something you can take it or leave it.

Our relative skill at PvP has nothing to do with the fact that OGB is broken as all hell. It's the most egregious form of pay to win in the game and it's high time it was done away with.

I have been trying to tell people this for 3-4 years.

The real balancing that is required will be missed, as usual. So T3C boosters in low sec will continue to only die from silly mistakes (sorry Thanatos but that is what I think).

Because taking a brawl is like giving complete control to your target(s) in the hope that they dont just have another 20 people jump in the second scrams go on.

Theres a time and place for it, but results in a lot more reshipping.

No worries. I will agree that some of the boosters I've killed have had plenty of opportunities to cloak/move/use a different fit. Some of them though the mistake boils down to not seeing the Tornadoes move or the single pass of the combat probes before they are toast, not much of a mistake imo, just bad luck and/or trying to do to much.