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Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2587	Posted - 2015.12.01 14:47:43 - [61] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: You are a Sebiestor. Do you not realise the irony of your own words? I don't defend the faithlessness or treachery of my race. For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord He shall be taken into the arms of God And forever consecrated will he be. -Amarr-Askura 2:3
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35813	Posted - 2015.12.01 16:13:21 - [62] - Quote Then what are you doing in PIE?
Utari Onzo Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 822	Posted - 2015.12.01 16:38:09 - [63] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Then what are you doing in PIE? Because she's one of the faith and wishes to serve the Empire by flying with one of the oldest still active, and Amarr loyal, corporations? What kind of a question is that? "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35813	Posted - 2015.12.01 16:50:04 - [64] - Quote It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1690	Posted - 2015.12.01 16:53:54 - [65] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor. Lieutenant Kernher is Sebiestor by blood, yes. She is a life-long resident of the Empire, however, and an adherant to the Amarr faith. She is also a decent and honorable person of deep and sincere beliefs. Among those beliefs is one that says that the Matari, like all humanity other than the 'True Amarr', were once faithful to the Amarr God, but turned away from him - an act of faithlessness and treachery, and one she believes pollutes our entire bloodline. It is a sin she strives to atone for, despite having not actually committed it herself. So, if a decent, honorable person who deeply and sincerely believes in the Amarr faith and has lived within the Empire since birth should not be fighting for the Empire, where should they be fighting?
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 881	Posted - 2015.12.01 16:55:37 - [66] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: How about the capacitor-boosted dual armour reppers? Oh well. I was trying not to give Naups ideas about what I might be flying next time! :P Yes, either that, or some sort of kiter that'll stay out of scram and neut range, or I might invent something totally ridiculous, like a Crucifier made into a neuting droneboat. He experiments on slaves, and I'll experiment on him! If you are gonna be kiting Naup, I really suggest against Tormentors by the sole reason that they aren't exactly fast. I had battled against Executioners with beam lasers before and they are pretty decent if they manage to pull range. Maybe try that out? Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35813	Posted - 2015.12.01 17:05:12 - [67] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor. Lieutenant Kernher is Sebiestor by blood, yes. She is a life-long resident of the Empire, however, and an adherant to the Amarr faith. She is also a decent and honorable person of deep and sincere beliefs. Among those beliefs is one that says that the Matari, like all humanity other than the 'True Amarr', were once faithful to the Amarr God, but turned away from him - an act of faithlessness and treachery, and one she believes pollutes our entire bloodline. It is a sin she strives to atone for, despite having not actually committed it herself. So, if a decent, honorable person who deeply and sincerely believes in the Amarr faith and has lived within the Empire since birth should not be fighting for the Empire, where should they be fighting? A person that would condemn an entire bloodline like that is neither honourable nor decent. Being self-indignant makes it even worse.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1691	Posted - 2015.12.01 17:40:28 - [68] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: A person that would condemn an entire bloodline like that is neither honourable nor decent. Being self-indignant makes it even worse. Congratulations, you've just declared every single member of the Amarr faith to be neither honourable nor decent, because that 'original sin' - the idea that the taint of ancient forebears who turned from God - is apparently one of the core tenets of the faith, and the reason why the True Amarr stand above even other ethnic groups from their own homeworld as the pinnacle of the Imperial social ladder. Seriously, they're raised to believe that as strongly as they believe '1+1=2'. Because let me be clear here, the statement she made is a subset of the statement 'Everyone but the True Amarr is a product of faithlessness and treachery'. It's just a degree of how recently some of those bloodlines began their atonement.
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35813	Posted - 2015.12.01 17:48:06 - [69] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: A person that would condemn an entire bloodline like that is neither honourable nor decent. Being self-indignant makes it even worse. Congratulations, you've just declared every single member of the Amarr faith to be neither honourable nor decent, because that 'original sin' - the idea that the taint of ancient forebears who turned from God - is apparently one of the core tenets of the faith, and the reason why the True Amarr stand above even other ethnic groups from their own homeworld as the pinnacle of the Imperial social ladder. Seriously, they're raised to believe that as strongly as they believe '1+1=2'. Because let me be clear here, the statement she made is a subset of the statement 'Everyone but the True Amarr is a product of faithlessness and treachery'. It's just a degree of how recently some of those bloodlines began their atonement. Apparently it upset her. Which isn't my problem really. I mean, if she can slander Amarr's allies publically, a little more of the same should be ok.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1691	Posted - 2015.12.01 18:01:40 - [70] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Apparently it upset her. Which isn't my problem really. I mean, if she can slander Amarr's allies publically, a little more of the same should be ok. I assume you're not claiming the Sebiestor are Amarr's allies. Do you, perchance, refer instead to her statements regarding the blood-cults of Delve and Khanid space?

Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35813	Posted - 2015.12.01 18:03:52 - [71] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Apparently it upset her. Which isn't my problem really. I mean, if she can slander Amarr's allies publically, a little more of the same should be ok. I assume you're not claiming the Sebiestor are Amarr's allies. Do you, perchance, refer instead to her statements regarding the blood-cults of Delve and Khanid space? Well, considering that she thinks that every Khanid is a blooder.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1691	Posted - 2015.12.01 18:12:27 - [72] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, considering that she thinks that every Khanid is a blooder. Not what she said. What she said was that the folks claiming that blood raiders are welcome in Khanid are basically claiming Khanid is no longer living up to their obligations vis-a-vis heresy. She also stated - accurately, as near as I can tell - that the Kingdom was considered heretical for other reasons prior to Empress Jamyl I's rapprochement. That heresy, btw, would have been Khanid II's refusal to commit ritual suicide last time he was an Heir to the Imperial Throne, and his subsequent declaration of independence from the Empire.
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35814	Posted - 2015.12.01 18:19:51 - [73] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Well, considering that she thinks that every Khanid is a blooder. Not what she said. What she said was that the folks claiming that blood raiders are welcome in Khanid are basically claiming Khanid is no longer living up to their obligations vis-a-vis heresy. She also stated - accurately, as near as I can tell - that the Kingdom was considered heretical for other reasons prior to Empress Jamyl I's rapprochement. That heresy, btw, would have been Khanid II's refusal to commit ritual suicide last time he was an Heir to the Imperial Throne, and his subsequent declaration of independence from the Empire. No, that's exactly what she said. By the way, the Kingdom is still considered a separate entity from the Empire. Don't believe me? Ask your nearest Concord official.
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 176	Posted - 2015.12.01 18:23:16 - [74] - Quote Arrendis wrote: She also stated - accurately, as near as I can tell - that the Kingdom was considered heretical for other reasons prior to Empress Jamyl I's rapprochement. That heresy, btw, would have been Khanid II's refusal to commit ritual suicide last time he was an Heir to the Imperial Throne, and his subsequent declaration of independence from the Empire. Please let's set this dangerous subject aside. I can only pray for a peaceful transition to the new Emperor's reign. Elmund Egivand wrote: If you are gonna be kiting Naup, I really suggest against Tormentors by the sole reason that they aren't exactly fast. I had battled against Executioners with beam lasers before and they are pretty decent if they manage to pull range. Maybe try that out? This is also an option, though it'd be really squishy.
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 226	Posted - 2015.12.01 18:25:41 - [75] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor. Shouldn't that question be asked by peole who actually serve their own and don't have the history of being buddy-buddy with pirates and terrorists.
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35814	Posted - 2015.12.01 19:03:24 - [76] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor. Shouldn't that question be asked by people who actually serve their own and don't have the history of being buddy-buddy with pirates and terrorists. How do you know that I'm not serving my own, pray tell?
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5808	Posted - 2015.12.01 19:37:49 - [77] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor. Shouldn't that question be asked by people who actually serve their own and don't have the history of being buddy-buddy with pirates and terrorists. Ria used to be a pilot in the State Protectorate - when did that change? "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1475	Posted - 2015.12.01 19:42:29 - [78] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Arrendis wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor. Lieutenant Kernher is Sebiestor by blood, yes. She is a life-long resident of the Empire, however, and an adherant to the Amarr faith. She is also a decent and honorable person of deep and sincere beliefs. Among those beliefs is one that says that the Matari, like all humanity other than the 'True Amarr', were once faithful to the Amarr God, but turned away from him - an act of faithlessness and treachery, and one she believes pollutes our entire bloodline. It is a sin she strives to atone for, despite having not actually committed it herself. So, if a decent, honorable person who deeply and sincerely believes in the Amarr faith and has lived within the Empire since birth should not be fighting for the Empire, where should they be fighting? A person that would condemn an entire bloodline like that is neither honourable nor decent. Being self-indignant makes it even worse. Well then, you might have a problem with the Amarr, because that is the way Amarr works. The individual means nothing, compared to the family and the House. This is why generational slavery is a thing, among other facts. Everyone is deemed to pay for the mistakes of their own kin, as everyone is deemed to profit for their successes. Something not so dissimilar to the Matari social structure, or even the megacorp culture to some extent. The group transcends the individual, with all the excesses that arise from it, as well as the pros. Of course then, it does not mean that blanket statements about whole bloodlines make a lot of sense either..
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 227	Posted - 2015.12.01 19:48:47 - [79] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: It's the kind of question that gets asked after she calls herself a faithless traitor. Shouldn't that question be asked by people who actually serve their own and don't have the history of being buddy-buddy with pirates and terrorists. How do you know that I'm not serving my own, pray tell? Are you saying you are still serving your old cartel friends or something while still being part of SPROT? Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Ria used to be a pilot in the State Protectorate - when did that change? She still is.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1475	Posted - 2015.12.01 19:53:19 - [80] - Quote Also, these whole public discussions remind me that this constant witch hunt for heretics and finger pointing are really weird. Are people so quick to call upon others for their sins and heresies in a way to hide their own? Or in the hope to show their over-the-top-zeal? Is that a contest? Is that even becoming of Amarr Faithful? Are people trying to get noticed by the MIO and receive a pat on the head? Is that a way to prove oneself? Half of the discussions involving Faithful systematically end in monkeys slinging scripture at each other without even showing a hint of understanding them. Really. I may lack the moral fortitude to found my own opinions most of the time, but it sure is no wonder that the head Chamberlain and other figures reprimanded the Faithful most of the time for their display. Obedience without a thought is to be cultivated, but so is the moral certitude to know how and when to disagree.

Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35820	Posted - 2015.12.01 19:53:51 - [81] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: Well then, you might have a problem with the Amarr, because that is the way Amarr works. The individual means nothing, compared to the family and the House. This is why generational slavery is a thing, among other facts. Everyone is deemed to pay for the mistakes of their own kin, as everyone is deemed to profit for their successes. Something not so dissimilar to the Matari social structure, or even the megacorp culture to some extent. The group transcends the individual, with all the excesses that arise from it, as well as the pros. Of course then, it does not mean that blanket statements about whole bloodlines make a lot of sense either.. While I am a member of the State Protectorate, I have complete authonomy within operational directives. I get rewarded according to my contributions to them, no questions asked. Certainly beats being declared heretic, deviant, criminal by every old person whom didn't like what you said. Ashlar Vellum wrote: Are you saying you are still serving your old cartel friends or something while still being part of SPROT? I wonder. If you happen to realise that I'm a former Imperium member, will you try to rationalise the fact in light of my exchange with Arrendis here and die from the resulting aneurysm?
Utari Onzo Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 823	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:04:44 - [82] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: While I am a member of the State Protectorate, I have complete authonomy within operational directives. I get rewarded according to my contributions to them, no questions asked. Certainly beats being declared heretic, deviant, criminal by every old person whom didn't like what you said. There's a big difference between differing opinions, and outright condoning full blooded (pun intended) heresy. Ms Kernher disagrees with me on a lot of finer points of faith and Amarrian politics, but neither of us calls the other a heretic/deviant/criminal. No one should be supportive of people like Nauplius. Lyn Farel wrote: Also, these whole public discussions remind me that this constant witch hunt for heretics and finger pointing are really weird. Are people so quick to call upon others for their sins and heresies in a way to hide their own? Or in the hope to show their over-the-top-zeal? Is that a contest? Is that even becoming of Amarr Faithful? Are people trying to get noticed by the MIO and receive a pat on the head? Is that a way to prove oneself? Half of the discussions involving Faithful systematically end in monkeys slinging scripture at each other without even showing a hint of understanding them. Really. I may lack the moral fortitude to found my own opinions most of the time, but it sure is no wonder that the head Chamberlain and other figures reprimanded the Faithful most of the time for their display. Obedience without a thought is to be cultivated, but so is the moral certitude to know how and when to disagree. Sure, witch hunts are never nice and not always in the best interests of the faith. However when individuals openly proclaim support or sympathy for someone like Omir, someone I hasten to add is widely considered a threat to not only the Empire but all humanity, I think that one is pretty cut and dry. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 35820	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:09:14 - [83] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: There's a big difference between differing opinions, and outright condoning full blooded (pun intended) heresy. Ms Kernher disagrees with me on a lot of finer points of faith and Amarrian politics, but neither of us calls the other a heretic/deviant/criminal. No one should be supportive of people like Nauplius. Nowhere have I supported Nauplius. It is, however, implied that I do, because I am of Khanid descent.
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 177	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:12:18 - [84] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: Also, these whole public discussions remind me that this constant witch hunt for heretics and finger pointing are really weird. Are people so quick to call upon others for their sins and heresies in a way to hide their own? Or in the hope to show their over-the-top-zeal? Is that a contest? Is that even becoming of Amarr Faithful? Are people trying to get noticed by the MIO and receive a pat on the head? Sorry, Lyn, but this Nauplius guy does everything that's in his power to get all the fingers pointed at him. He sacrifices millions to either to appease his delusions of God, or to enjoy that finger pointing, or both. No witch hunt needed: the witch proudly marches forward and says, "burn me if you can". The question isn't even "why not", the question is "can all my taunting and throwing cheap fit frigates at him provide the attention that he craves and at least delay another senseless mass slaughter by this madman?" Lyn Farel wrote: Is that a way to prove oneself?. Probably yes. But other points are still valid. As about the "heretics" in general... If we, the Empire loyalists, won't take care of and/or clean up our own crazies, who else would?
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1475	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:19:03 - [85] - Quote I am sorry, I did not especially mean your combat here... My assertion was more about a general state of being where all those freelance capsuleer Faithful spend their time pointing fingers at each other for so called heresies. Maybe I, err... chose the wrong thread for that...
Utari Onzo Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 823	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:24:35 - [86] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: There's a big difference between differing opinions, and outright condoning full blooded (pun intended) heresy. Ms Kernher disagrees with me on a lot of finer points of faith and Amarrian politics, but neither of us calls the other a heretic/deviant/criminal. No one should be supportive of people like Nauplius. Nowhere have I supported Nauplius. It is, however, implied that I do, because I am of Khanid descent. I'm not Samira, but I get the feeling she's probably more inclined towards pointing the finger at the officials that seemed to miss the obvious Sabik symapthies of Edeity, and the loyalist Khanid capsuleers who allegedly missed it too in their, perhaps commendable, rush to defend their King's right to choose a champion. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Satja Askariin Adamantine Tactical Acquisitions 42	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:47:38 - [87] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: Are people trying to get noticed by the MIO and receive a pat on the head? Is that a way to prove oneself? I suppose the proverbial pat on the head is what every convert or slave aspires to at some point in their lives or the lives of their children. The only way to prove your faith is through the course of time while remaining humble, respectful, and devout.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1693	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:53:03 - [88] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: I am sorry, I did not especially mean your combat here... My assertion was more about a general state of being where all those freelance capsuleer Faithful spend their time pointing fingers at each other for so called heresies. Maybe I, err... chose the wrong thread for that... It's not a bad point for discussion, though. Perhaps its own thread?
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 227	Posted - 2015.12.01 21:04:43 - [89] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: I wonder. If you happen to realise that I'm a former Imperium member, will you try to rationalise the fact in light of my exchange with Arrendis here and die from the resulting aneurysm? So spiteful and here I thought you are my honourable and decent ally.
Lunarisse Aspenstar Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 634	Posted - 2015.12.01 21:52:17 - [90] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: Lyn Farel wrote: Is that a way to prove oneself?. Probably yes. But other points are still valid. As about the "heretics" in general... If we, the Empire loyalists, won't take care of and/or clean up our own crazies, who else would? Utari Onzo wrote: Sure, witch hunts are never nice and not always in the best interests of the faith. However when individuals openly proclaim support or sympathy for someone like Omir, someone I hasten to add is widely considered a threat to not only the Empire but all humanity, I think that one is pretty cut and dry. Adepta Farel, As "SFRIM]s main focus will be fighting internal threats to Greater Amarr and strengthening it from within as well as fostering good relations to it's allies", Nauplius as an openly proclaimed heretic who has conducted numerous, public acts of mass violence is, and will always, be an internal threat to Greater Amarria and RED to the Society (and by extension yourself). It is not a way to "prove" ourselves, but to try to protect Greater Amarria and uphold the Faith. I really could care less if other independent capsuleers view our efforts as "proving oneself" or otherwise. Our judge is God. I do think the discussion has gotten rather far from the OP and warrants a separate thread so as not to detract from Aspirant Tamiroth's efforts in this regard.



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