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how can a tempest beat a raven? or a rokh?

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Chris TheNinjaPirate Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.04 05:44:00 - [1] 1v1, i can not beat a raven with my autocannon tempest. 1v1, i can not beat a rokh (with blasters) with my autocannon tempest. i cant tank well enough, and i can not do enough damage. i have decent gunnery skills. tech 2 autocannons. tech 2 armor tank skills. the tempest can not use range OR speed to its advantage against either ship. half one year ago i come in here and make fun of people who whine about the other races and how they are so overpowered. but this is stupid. the "advantages" that the minmatar have are totally made useless by these ships. everyone should just go train for caldari ships now. * * * * * * * * * * * * sorry for my english, i am new with it
ReePeR McAllem Amarr The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.04 05:48:00 - [2] Edited by: ReePeR McAllem on 04/01/2007 05:49:07 No no no...no Edit: Brace for impact dude...
Dorther Ichnethum	Posted - 2007.01.04 05:50:00 - [3] stop winning and get a gang
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 05:53:00 - [4] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 05:55:23 Originally by: Dorther Ichnethum stop winning and get a gang That's what I always tell whiney Caldari pilots who don't think they can solo. Of course they can't take that advice... but they're plenty happy to give that advice to OTHERS when they get owned by Caldari solopwnmobiles of uberd00m. Of course, they're WRONG. They can solo just fine. I see a couple mates do it frequently. In fact, I was JUST talking about this exact same thing in another thread And you know what? When you have a ship that is SO GOOD that you MUST have more than one of another type of ship of its same class in order to take it down, SOMETHING IS WRONG. EDIT: I'm really on a roll! 4 ****-about-Caldari posts tonight! It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?* This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:06:00 - [5] EMP L. If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a better browser.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:08:00 - [6] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:08:44 Originally by: Dahak2150 EMP L. Considering how EM shield rigs are plummeting in price, and considering the Rokh's natural super tank... does that even do enough damage? The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh. (BTW, I'm asking... as I don't fly Minmatar battleships yet... just cruisers and BCs. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.) It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh. EM shield rigs might be plummiting in price, but projectile falloff rigs should be skyrocketing. Downsize the guns on the Tempest and stick falloff rigs on there. Now you outrange the Rokh by a large margin that the Rokh cannot make up. Do it on a Maelstrom and you dont have to downsize your guns, get a shockinly good tank, and have powergrid to spare. P.S. 45-50KM falloff max w/ barrage. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:25:00 - [8] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:25:24 Originally by: Goumindong P.S. 45-50KM falloff max w/ barrage. Falloff rigs are nice. If you kite the enemy and do enough damage to make them run, then... yay, you won! Unfortunately, ships aren't balanced WITHOUT rigs. WITH rigs, it is a disaster. Ships SHOULD be balanced pre-rigs, tbh. Otherwise, rigs just fall victim to the problem they were supposed to help solve: cookie cutter setups. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:28:00 - [9] "The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh." It can out-track the Rokh. At which point the out-tanking tends to follow.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Originally by: Goumindong P.S. 45-50KM falloff max w/ barrage. Falloff rigs are nice. Unfortunately, ships aren't balanced WITHOUT rigs. WITH rigs, it is a disaster. Ships should be balanced pre-rigs, tbh. Otherwise, rigs just fall victim to the problem they were supposed to help solve: cookie cutter setups. Rigs were never supposed to solve cookie cutter setups... And if they were, well, i dont really know what the devs were smoking when they thought up that one. Anyway, before rigs its pretty balanced, and Active tanked raven is going to break eventualy due to cap and a passive tanked raven will not be strong enough to withstand the barrage. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:08:44 Originally by: Dahak2150 EMP L. Considering how EM shield rigs are plummeting in price, and considering the Rokh's natural super tank... does that even do enough damage? The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh. (BTW, I'm asking... as I don't fly Minmatar battleships yet... just cruisers and BCs. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.) the rohk is an absolute pig.... have you tried multiple tracking disrupters and webbie drones? It has no tracking bonus, and only has 6 mids. 1 x-large booster, 2 tech II invuln fields, means 3 "utility" mids. Injector, MWD, and scram means that It can only use lowslot tracking enhancers, which suck tbh. He is only doing 2 damage types. PDU II's help out a shield tank tremendously.... esp 2 or more. Figure out what he has in his lowslots. that is how you will beat him.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:31:00 - [12] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:36:03 Originally by: j0sephine "The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh." It can out-track the Rokh. At which point the out-damaging and out-tanking tends to follow. OK... once again, I'm asking, being that I don't personally fly Minmatar BS yet: So... you orbit the Rokh slowly? Hmm. Tracking disruptor in the 5th med slot? I suppose that sounds delicious Unfortunately, that still lives you screwed when it comes to missiles. :( OP: What was in your 5th slot...? Originally by: j0sephine (hey, a Caldari ship not immune to tracking disruptors. Who would've thought? ;s Guess you edited that in after I replied. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Goumindong Rigs were never supposed to solve cookie cutter setups... For some reason I've been given the impression that it was one of their intentions. However: Quote: And if they were, well, i dont really know what the devs were smoking when they thought up that one. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Quote: Anyway, before rigs its pretty balanced, and Active tanked raven is going to break eventualy due to cap and a passive tanked raven will not be strong enough to withstand the barrage. Once again I don't personally fly a Tempest, but I can see the Tempest's cap breaking before the Raven's tank... Raven selects explosive damage, the Tempest loads EMP L. Both start going at it. If the Raven has 2x NOS and the Tempest is using missiles, the Raven gets all that extra cap. If they both have 2x NOS, then they cancel each other out... But like I said... I don't fly a Tempest (yet). Why I'm training for a Tempest in stead of a Raven and Rokh - I don't know, since I seem to think that Caldari wins Eve. I guess I have an ego problem with being handed an I-win button. (Why I fit blasters or rails on my Domi ) It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:36:00 - [14] "Unfortunately, that still lives you screwed when it comes to missiles. :(" If you even run into a Rokh that for some strange reason uses missiles, if you can't tank 4 launchers with no bonus worth of damage before it dies then there's bigger problems with the setup in question than just "i cannot beat the Rokh" -.o (of course it may be nos-Rokh. but then hardly any single setup can beat everything thrown at it, so that's not really an issue)
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:39:00 - [15] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:44:12 Originally by: Audri Fisher the rohk is an absolute pig.... have you tried multiple tracking disrupters and webbie drones? It has no tracking bonus, and only has 6 mids. 1 x-large booster, 2 tech II invuln fields, means 3 "utility" mids. Injector, MWD, and scram means that It can only use lowslot tracking enhancers, which suck tbh. He is only doing 2 damage types. PDU II's help out a shield tank tremendously.... esp 2 or more. Figure out what he has in his lowslots. that is how you will beat him. Of course if you KNOW you are coming up against a certain ship you can fit to beat him. The OP said "how does a tempest beat a blaster rokh". I'm just whining about how Caldari > all. Because IMO, a roaming (by which I mean: generalist setup) blaster Rokh has a huge advantage against a roaming hyperion or mega. EDIT: Erm... though j0sephine's comment "but the tempest can outtrack the rokh" gives me an idea about the Megathron. Uhm... is the Megathron a better candidate than the Hyperion to beat the blaster rokh? Megathron > Hyperion? ... even though the Hyperion can beat the Megathron in a 1v1 straight up battle? It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:40:00 - [16] Originally by: j0sephine That for some strange reason uses missiles, if you can't tank 4 launchers with no bonus worth of damage before it dies then there's bigger problems with the setup in question than just "i cannot beat the Rokh" -.o (of course it may be nos-Rokh. but then hardly any single setup can beat everything thrown at it, so that's not really an issue) Agreed. I was thinking more in the line of roaming raven vs. roaming tempest though... I whine about NOS all the time... I know... a nos-rokh isn't going to be beat by a single ship. NOS NERF INC! It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:45:00 - [17] My question is, How are people getting caught by a caldari battleship? What do this pilots have in them? full HG snakes?
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:50:00 - [18] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:51:51 Originally by: Audri Fisher My question is, How are people getting caught by a caldari battleship? What do this pilots have in them? full HG snakes? In the case of my two mates with blaster rokhs: - For one, it was a matter of the enemy entering the fighting thinking they could win, realizing that they were losing, and trying to run too late. - For the other, it was a matter of staying and going toe to toe with the rokh. I'm not sure WHY the Rokh should be inherently better at blasting in a toe-to-toe scrap with a Hyperion or Megathron... that gives me the red ass no matter how you slice it - pilot stupidity or not. If a Megathron or Hyperion - which are supposed to be KING at short range combat - see a Rokh, I don't see why they should have to just run like sissies. They are SUPPOSED to be king at short range. Why aren't they? It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Chris TheNinjaPirate Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Dorther Ichnethum stop winning and get a gang i should have to use friends to take down ONE ship that is similar in gear?? anyway. no i did not have a tracking disruptor in the 5th mid slot. i will have to try this in the future. thank you for that suggestion. against the raven, i still donot know what to do, however... i can run... but then he wins. what is the point of fighting if you do not have a chance at winning. if a ship wins every time with normal or tech 2 gear, what is the point of that ship being so strong. * * * * * * * * * * * * sorry for my english, i am new with it
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.04 06:59:00 - [20] raven? stay at 19km... and fit 2 large smarties. taks away a lot of his dps, esp if he doesn't stagger his shots.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:05:00 - [21] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 07:06:06 Originally by: Audri Fisher raven? stay at 19km... and fit 2 large smarties. taks away a lot of his dps, esp if he doesn't stagger his shots. I'm curious about something: Obviously you have a respectable ability to fit to the situation. Do not take what I'm about to say as an insult to that ability. But how often do you KNOW what you will be up against? When you roam (it would appear by your sig that you fly blaster ships), do you just run from anything that might kill you? Since I joined my alliance, I haven't got much PVP, unfortunately. It hasn't been what I thought it would be; and for the last couple weeks my cable has been in terrible shape so I've been near unable to play. Before I went alliance, however, I roamed as a smalltime pirate. I had to fit general setups. I didn't know what I would run into. Now, I didn't roam in battleships. Heh. If one does, however, they must fit a generalist setup. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:10:00 - [22] Every ship is good at different things. Maybe the tempest isn't the best 1v1 ship? it has the biggest alpha in the game, and is a great sniper. So use it in fleets to snipe, not 1v1 pvp.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Tunajuice Every ship is good at different things. Maybe the tempest isn't the best 1v1 ship? it has the biggest alpha in the game, and is a great sniper. So use it in fleets to snipe, not 1v1 pvp. Well, yeah... Nos domi and Nanophoon are the best at 1v1. But every ship is good at different things? Hell, the Rokh is better at everything than everyone. Better at nossage: Torps, NOS, tank, and speed Better at blasting: Discussed above Better at sniping: Duh It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Kashre Minmatar Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Tunajuice Every ship is good at different things. Maybe the tempest isn't the best 1v1 ship? it has the biggest alpha in the game, and is a great sniper. So use it in fleets to snipe, not 1v1 pvp. It makes a pretty good AC platform, and between barrage and tracking disruptors and the fact that it's about way faster than a rohk, Id think it would have a decent chance against a blaster rokh if the things tank could be broken. But... you gotta figure that a ship 160-200 mil ship is going to have some kind of advantage over a 100-110 mil ship anyways. So if you both have equal skill levels and the rokh win, I call it ballance. Ravens are another matter. I have not had a 1 vs 1 against a raven since the days before the shield boosting nerf to cap relays when everyone and their mother was permatanking with an XL booster and 6 cap relays.... so I wont comment on that one. +++ "Etiquette is for the Dojo. In war there is only victory or death." - Eiji Yoshikawa
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Kashre But... you gotta figure that a ship 160-200 mil ship is going to have some kind of advantage over a 100-110 mil ship anyways. So if you both have equal skill levels and the rokh win, I call it ballance. I honestly don't think that this should be :( Price is indeed a compelling reason why something OUGHT to be better. However, I don't think that the tiers should imply "better". In fact, I think several different devs have said that they wanted the different BSes to fill different roles... not necessarily be "better" in general than another ship. Of course... generalist Hyp fit, generalist Rokh fit... both cost 200m, Rokh wins be a fair margin with ease... what do you have then. That ain't balance. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 07:08:27 Originally by: Audri Fisher raven? stay at 19km... and fit 2 large smarties. taks away a lot of his dps, esp if he doesn't stagger his shots. I'm curious about something: Obviously you have a respectable ability to fit to the situation. Do not take what I'm about to say as an insult to that ability. But how often do you KNOW what you will be up against? When you roam (it would appear by your sig that you fly blaster ships), do you just run from anything that might kill you? Since I joined my alliance, I haven't got much PVP, unfortunately. It hasn't been what I thought it would be; and for the last couple weeks my cable has been in terrible shape so I've been near unable to play. Before I went alliance, however, I roamed as a smalltime pirate. I had to fit general setups. I didn't know what I would run into. Now, I didn't roam in battleships. Heh. I'm going back to piracy soon however... so if one does roam in a battleship, they must fit a generalist setup. Then what? Sure, you can pick mostly on NPCers. But what happens when you run into someone who is also generalist fit, and their generalist fit basically has no drawbacks that you can exploit? Roam in a Hyperion... meet a Rokh that is set up for PVP... you're done for. I suppose I SHOULD just roam in a bloody nos domi. Like I said, though, I have an ego trouble with taking the "i win" button. :( Burn Eden is up north. Kind of hard not to know what you are flying against. certain allainces/corps tend to have there own combat style, Doom. speedtanks just about everything. I amy not know exactly what they are flying, but I do know what I need to harden against (kin/explosive) and I know I need webbies and dampners in my gang. If you are in an area for a decent amount of time, you tend to figure out what people like to fly, and how to counter them. Yes you can get caught by the oddball. and if you fit against doom. and run into an omen gang, you are seriously fubar, but well life's a ***** and then you die. The best guy to have at your side in a fight is one who loses at least 3 ships a week. They know what they can do, what they can't ( you learn a lot more from loseing than winning) , and you know they aren't going to bail on you in a pinch.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.04 08:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate 1v1, i can not beat a raven with my autocannon tempest. 1v1, i can not beat a rokh (with blasters) with my autocannon tempest. i cant tank well enough, and i can not do enough damage. i have decent gunnery skills. tech 2 autocannons. tech 2 armor tank skills. the tempest can not use range OR speed to its advantage against either ship. half one year ago i come in here and make fun of people who whine about the other races and how they are so overpowered. but this is stupid. the "advantages" that the minmatar have are totally made useless by these ships. everyone should just go train for caldari ships now. Ok by any chance do you have a scram on?Now by any chance does he have a scram on? Thats the first difference i can see,due to its shield tank it has trouble scrambling and webbing the target without wrecking its tank,you dont have that problem. Second difference is your cap can last longer,look at it this way,i guess hes using a t2 XL shield booster,in which unless he has steroids he cannot hold it forever(bar the navy raven with uber faction and cap rigs). But in the case that he is using cap boosters and your also using cap boosters you both therefore have your advantages,the big advantage to you is(with a dual armor rep tank)if your low on cap you can shut one off,he cant shut half his booster off and is left to toggle it. Also a tempest gets ALOT more dps unless the raven is using fury torps and a couple of target painters. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.04 08:27:00 - [28] 20km scram, mwd, 3 dampeners?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.04 09:30:00 - [29] I got better results shield tanking/MWD/Inj and using 3 gyro 1 DCU 1 istab 1PDS in the lows. 1 Fall of rig 2 MWD bonus rigs and you can stay way out of its range. No i am not fitting tackling equipment sincce i am TRYING to stay out of his range! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.05 01:48:00 - [30] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 01:51:17 Originally by: goodby4u Ok by any chance do you have a scram on?Now by any chance does he have a scram on? WHO GIVES A RATS ASS? If he forces you to run, HE WINS. Quote: Second difference is your cap can last longer,look at it this way,i guess hes using a t2 XL shield booster,in which unless he has steroids he cannot hold it forever(bar the navy raven with uber faction and cap rigs). And he will have NOS pretty much no matter what. Tempest needs damage advantage OR SBs to help knock out torps. Either way, you are losing cap - even moreso if you use SBs. Quote: Also a tempest gets ALOT more dps unless the raven is using fury torps and a couple of target painters. Rubbish. Not only can the Raven pick its damage type, but the tempest's on-structure damage will still be lower unless it uses missiles - which leaves it rough on cap (no NOS to counter the raven's NOS)... and it will have to fight within 20km anyway in order to keep the raven scrammed... so there's no avoiding it. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...

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