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Chris TheNinjaPirate
Amarr
   |
Posted - 2007.01.04 05:44:00 -
[1]
1v1, i can not beat a raven with my autocannon tempest.
1v1, i can not beat a rokh (with blasters) with my autocannon tempest.
i cant tank well enough, and i can not do enough damage.
i have decent gunnery skills. tech 2 autocannons. tech 2 armor tank skills.
the tempest can not use range OR speed to its advantage against either ship.
half one year ago i come in here and make fun of people who whine about the other races and how they are so overpowered. but this is stupid. the "advantages" that the minmatar have are totally made useless by these ships. 
everyone should just go train for caldari ships now.
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sorry for my english, i am new with it |
ReePeR McAllem
Amarr
The Carebear Stare
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.04 05:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ReePeR McAllem on 04/01/2007 05:49:07
 No no no...no
Edit: Brace for impact dude...
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Dorther Ichnethum
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Posted - 2007.01.04 05:50:00 -
[3]
stop winning and get a gang
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.01.04 05:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 05:55:23
 Originally by: Dorther Ichnethum
stop winning and get a gang
That's what I always tell whiney Caldari pilots who don't think they can solo. Of course they can't take that advice... but they're plenty happy to give that advice to OTHERS when they get owned by Caldari solopwnmobiles of uberd00m.
Of course, they're WRONG. They can solo just fine. I see a couple mates do it frequently. In fact, I was JUST talking about this exact same thing in another thread 
And you know what? When you have a ship that is SO GOOD that you MUST have more than one of another type of ship of its same class in order to take it down, SOMETHING IS WRONG.
EDIT: I'm really on a roll! 4 *****-about-Caldari posts tonight!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:06:00 -
[5]
EMP L.
If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a better browser. |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:08:44
Originally by: Dahak2150
EMP L.
Considering how EM shield rigs are plummeting in price, and considering the Rokh's natural super tank... does that even do enough damage?
The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh.
(BTW, I'm *asking*... as I don't fly Minmatar battleships yet... just cruisers and BCs. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.)
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh.
EM shield rigs might be plummiting in price, but projectile falloff rigs should be skyrocketing.
Downsize the guns on the Tempest and stick falloff rigs on there. Now you outrange the Rokh by a large margin that the Rokh cannot make up.
Do it on a Maelstrom and you dont have to downsize your guns, get a shockinly good tank, and have powergrid to spare.
P.S. 45-50KM falloff max w/ barrage.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:25:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:25:24
Originally by: Goumindong
P.S. 45-50KM falloff max w/ barrage.
Falloff rigs are nice. If you kite the enemy and do enough damage to make them run, then... yay, you won!
Unfortunately, ships aren't balanced WITHOUT rigs. WITH rigs, it is a disaster.
Ships SHOULD be balanced pre-rigs, tbh. Otherwise, rigs just fall victim to the problem they were supposed to help solve: cookie cutter setups.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:28:00 -
[9]
"The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh."
It can out-track the Rokh. At which point the out-tanking tends to follow.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Goumindong
P.S. 45-50KM falloff max w/ barrage.
Falloff rigs are nice.
Unfortunately, ships aren't balanced WITHOUT rigs. WITH rigs, it is a disaster.
Ships should be balanced pre-rigs, tbh. Otherwise, rigs just fall victim to the problem they were supposed to help solve: cookie cutter setups.
Rigs were never supposed to solve cookie cutter setups...
And if they were, well, i dont really know what the devs were smoking when they thought up that one.
Anyway, before rigs its pretty balanced, and Active tanked raven is going to break eventualy due to cap and a passive tanked raven will not be strong enough to withstand the barrage.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:08:44
Originally by: Dahak2150
EMP L.
Considering how EM shield rigs are plummeting in price, and considering the Rokh's natural super tank... does that even do enough damage?
The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh.
(BTW, I'm *asking*... as I don't fly Minmatar battleships yet... just cruisers and BCs. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.)
the rohk is an absolute pig....
have you tried multiple tracking disrupters and webbie drones? It has no tracking bonus, and only has 6 mids. 1 x-large booster, 2 tech II invuln fields, means 3 "utility" mids. Injector, MWD, and scram means that It can only use lowslot tracking enhancers, which suck tbh.
He is only doing 2 damage types.
PDU II's help out a shield tank tremendously.... esp 2 or more.
Figure out what he has in his lowslots. that is how you will beat him.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:31:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:36:03
Originally by: j0sephine
"The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh."
It can out-track the Rokh. At which point the out-damaging and out-tanking tends to follow.
OK... once again, I'm asking, being that I don't personally fly Minmatar BS yet:
So... you orbit the Rokh slowly? Hmm. Tracking disruptor in the 5th med slot? I suppose that sounds delicious 
Unfortunately, that still lives you screwed when it comes to missiles. :(
OP: What was in your 5th slot...?
Originally by: j0sephine
(hey, a Caldari ship not immune to tracking disruptors. Who would've thought? ;s
Guess you edited that in after I replied.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Goumindong
Rigs were never supposed to solve cookie cutter setups...
For some reason I've been given the impression that it was one of their intentions. However:
Quote:
And if they were, well, i dont really know what the devs were smoking when they thought up that one.
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. 
Quote:
Anyway, before rigs its pretty balanced, and Active tanked raven is going to break eventualy due to cap and a passive tanked raven will not be strong enough to withstand the barrage.
Once again I don't personally fly a Tempest, but I can see the Tempest's cap breaking before the Raven's tank... Raven selects explosive damage, the Tempest loads EMP L. Both start going at it. If the Raven has 2x NOS and the Tempest is using missiles, the Raven gets all that extra cap. If they both have 2x NOS, then they cancel each other out...
But like I said... I don't fly a Tempest (yet). Why I'm training for a Tempest in stead of a Raven and Rokh - I don't know, since I seem to think that Caldari wins Eve. I guess I have an ego problem with being handed an I-win button. (Why I fit blasters or rails on my Domi )
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:36:00 -
[14]
"Unfortunately, that still lives you screwed when it comes to missiles. :("
If you even run into a Rokh that for some strange reason uses missiles, if you can't tank 4 launchers with no bonus worth of damage before it dies then there's bigger problems with the setup in question than just "i cannot beat the Rokh" -.o
(of course it *may* be nos-Rokh. but then hardly any single setup can beat everything thrown at it, so that's not really an issue)
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:39:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:44:12
Originally by: Audri Fisher
the rohk is an absolute pig....
have you tried multiple tracking disrupters and webbie drones? It has no tracking bonus, and only has 6 mids. 1 x-large booster, 2 tech II invuln fields, means 3 "utility" mids. Injector, MWD, and scram means that It can only use lowslot tracking enhancers, which suck tbh.
He is only doing 2 damage types.
PDU II's help out a shield tank tremendously.... esp 2 or more.
Figure out what he has in his lowslots. that is how you will beat him.
Of course if you KNOW you are coming up against a certain ship you can fit to beat him.
The OP said "how does a tempest beat a blaster rokh". I'm just whining about how Caldari > all.
Because IMO, a roaming (by which I mean: generalist setup) blaster Rokh has a huge advantage against a roaming hyperion or mega.
EDIT: Erm... though j0sephine's comment "but the tempest can outtrack the rokh" gives me an idea about the Megathron. Uhm... is the Megathron a better candidate than the Hyperion to beat the blaster rokh?
Megathron > Hyperion? ... even though the Hyperion can beat the Megathron in a 1v1 straight up battle?
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: j0sephine
That for some strange reason uses missiles, if you can't tank 4 launchers with no bonus worth of damage before it dies then there's bigger problems with the setup in question than just "i cannot beat the Rokh" -.o
(of course it *may* be nos-Rokh. but then hardly any single setup can beat everything thrown at it, so that's not really an issue)
Agreed. I was thinking more in the line of roaming raven vs. roaming tempest though...
I whine about NOS all the time... I know... a nos-rokh isn't going to be beat by a single ship. 
NOS NERF INC!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:45:00 -
[17]
My question is, How are people getting caught by a caldari battleship? What do this pilots have in them? full HG snakes?
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:51:51
Originally by: Audri Fisher
My question is, How are people getting caught by a caldari battleship? What do this pilots have in them? full HG snakes?
In the case of my two mates with blaster rokhs:
- For one, it was a matter of the enemy entering the fighting thinking they could win, realizing that they were losing, and trying to run too late.
- For the other, it was a matter of staying and going toe to toe with the rokh.
I'm not sure WHY the Rokh should be inherently better at blasting in a toe-to-toe scrap with a Hyperion or Megathron... that gives me the red ass no matter how you slice it - pilot stupidity or not.
If a Megathron or Hyperion - which are supposed to be KING at short range combat - see a Rokh, I don't see why they should have to just run like sissies. They are SUPPOSED to be king at short range. Why aren't they?
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Chris TheNinjaPirate
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dorther Ichnethum
stop winning and get a gang
i should have to use friends to take down ONE ship that is similar in gear??
anyway. no i did not have a tracking disruptor in the 5th mid slot. i will have to try this in the future. thank you for that suggestion.
against the raven, i still donot know what to do, however... i can run... but then he wins. what is the point of fighting if you do not have a chance at winning. if a ship wins every time with normal or tech 2 gear, what is the point of that ship being so strong.
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sorry for my english, i am new with it |
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:59:00 -
[20]
raven? stay at 19km... and fit 2 large smarties. taks away a lot of his dps, esp if he doesn't stagger his shots.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 07:05:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 07:06:06
Originally by: Audri Fisher
raven? stay at 19km... and fit 2 large smarties. taks away a lot of his dps, esp if he doesn't stagger his shots.
I'm curious about something:
Obviously you have a respectable ability to fit to the situation.
Do not take what I'm about to say as an insult to that ability.
But how often do you KNOW what you will be up against? When you roam (it would appear by your sig that you fly blaster ships), do you just run from anything that might kill you?
Since I joined my alliance, I haven't got much PVP, unfortunately. It hasn't been what I thought it would be; and for the last couple weeks my cable has been in terrible shape so I've been near unable to play. Before I went alliance, however, I roamed as a smalltime pirate. I had to fit general setups. I didn't know what I would run into.
Now, I didn't roam in battleships. Heh. If one does, however, they must fit a generalist setup.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 07:10:00 -
[22]
Every ship is good at different things. Maybe the tempest isn't the best 1v1 ship? it has the biggest alpha in the game, and is a great sniper. So use it in fleets to snipe, not 1v1 pvp.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 07:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tunajuice
Every ship is good at different things. Maybe the tempest isn't the best 1v1 ship? it has the biggest alpha in the game, and is a great sniper. So use it in fleets to snipe, not 1v1 pvp.
Well, yeah... Nos domi and Nanophoon are the best at 1v1.
But every ship is good at different things?
Hell, the Rokh is better at everything than everyone.
Better at nossage: Torps, NOS, tank, and speed
Better at blasting: Discussed above
Better at sniping: Duh
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Kashre
Minmatar
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 07:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tunajuice
Every ship is good at different things. Maybe the tempest isn't the best 1v1 ship? it has the biggest alpha in the game, and is a great sniper. So use it in fleets to snipe, not 1v1 pvp.
It makes a pretty good AC platform, and between barrage and tracking disruptors and the fact that it's about way faster than a rohk, Id think it would have a decent chance against a blaster rokh if the things tank could be broken.
But... you gotta figure that a ship 160-200 mil ship is going to have some kind of advantage over a 100-110 mil ship anyways. So if you both have equal skill levels and the rokh win, I call it ballance.
Ravens are another matter. I have not had a 1 vs 1 against a raven since the days before the shield boosting nerf to cap relays when everyone and their mother was permatanking with an XL booster and 6 cap relays.... so I wont comment on that one.
+++
"Etiquette is for the Dojo. In war there is only victory or death." - Eiji Yoshikawa |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 07:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kashre
But... you gotta figure that a ship 160-200 mil ship is going to have some kind of advantage over a 100-110 mil ship anyways. So if you both have equal skill levels and the rokh win, I call it ballance.
I honestly don't think that this should be :(
Price is indeed a compelling reason why something OUGHT to be better. However, I don't think that the tiers should imply "better".
In fact, I think several different devs have said that they wanted the different BSes to fill different roles... not necessarily be "better" in general than another ship.
Of course... generalist Hyp fit, generalist Rokh fit... both cost 200m, Rokh wins be a fair margin with ease... what do you have then. That ain't balance. 
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 07:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 07:08:27
Originally by: Audri Fisher
raven? stay at 19km... and fit 2 large smarties. taks away a lot of his dps, esp if he doesn't stagger his shots.
I'm curious about something:
Obviously you have a respectable ability to fit to the situation.
Do not take what I'm about to say as an insult to that ability.
But how often do you KNOW what you will be up against? When you roam (it would appear by your sig that you fly blaster ships), do you just run from anything that might kill you?
Since I joined my alliance, I haven't got much PVP, unfortunately. It hasn't been what I thought it would be; and for the last couple weeks my cable has been in terrible shape so I've been near unable to play. Before I went alliance, however, I roamed as a smalltime pirate. I had to fit general setups. I didn't know what I would run into.
Now, I didn't roam in battleships. Heh. I'm going back to piracy soon however... so if one does roam in a battleship, they must fit a generalist setup.
Then what?
Sure, you can pick mostly on NPCers. But what happens when you run into someone who is also generalist fit, and their generalist fit basically has no drawbacks that you can exploit?
Roam in a Hyperion... meet a Rokh that is set up for PVP... you're done for.
I suppose I SHOULD just roam in a bloody nos domi. Like I said, though, I have an ego trouble with taking the "i win" button. :(
Burn Eden is up north. Kind of hard not to know what you are flying against.
certain allainces/corps tend to have there own combat style, Doom. speedtanks just about everything. I amy not know exactly what they are flying, but I do know what I need to harden against (kin/explosive) and I know I need webbies and dampners in my gang.
If you are in an area for a decent amount of time, you tend to figure out what people like to fly, and how to counter them. Yes you can get caught by the oddball. and if you fit against doom. and run into an omen gang, you are seriously fubar, but well life's a ***** and then you die.
The best guy to have at your side in a fight is one who loses at least 3 ships a week. They know what they can do, what they can't ( you learn a lot more from loseing than winning) , and you know they aren't going to bail on you in a pinch.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.04 08:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate
1v1, i can not beat a raven with my autocannon tempest.
1v1, i can not beat a rokh (with blasters) with my autocannon tempest.
i cant tank well enough, and i can not do enough damage.
i have decent gunnery skills. tech 2 autocannons. tech 2 armor tank skills.
the tempest can not use range OR speed to its advantage against either ship.
half one year ago i come in here and make fun of people who whine about the other races and how they are so overpowered. but this is stupid. the "advantages" that the minmatar have are totally made useless by these ships.
everyone should just go train for caldari ships now.
Ok by any chance do you have a scram on?Now by any chance does he have a scram on?
Thats the first difference i can see,due to its shield tank it has trouble scrambling and webbing the target without wrecking its tank,you dont have that problem.
Second difference is your cap can last longer,look at it this way,i guess hes using a t2 XL shield booster,in which unless he has steroids he cannot hold it forever(bar the navy raven with uber faction and cap rigs).
But in the case that he is using cap boosters and your also using cap boosters you both therefore have your advantages,the big advantage to you is(with a dual armor rep tank)if your low on cap you can shut one off,he cant shut half his booster off and is left to toggle it.
Also a tempest gets ALOT more dps unless the raven is using fury torps and a couple of target painters.
__________________________________________
Yes it is great being amarr. |
Graalum
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.01.04 08:27:00 -
[28]
20km scram, mwd, 3 dampeners?
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.04 09:30:00 -
[29]
I got better results shield tanking/MWD/Inj and using 3 gyro 1 DCU 1 istab 1PDS in the lows. 1 Fall of rig 2 MWD bonus rigs and you can stay way out of its range. No i am not fitting tackling equipment sincce i am TRYING to stay out of his range!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 01:48:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 01:51:17
Originally by: goodby4u
Ok by any chance do you have a scram on?Now by any chance does he have a scram on?
WHO GIVES A RATS ASS?
If he forces you to run, HE WINS.
Quote:
Second difference is your cap can last longer,look at it this way,i guess hes using a t2 XL shield booster,in which unless he has steroids he cannot hold it forever(bar the navy raven with uber faction and cap rigs).
And he will have NOS pretty much no matter what. Tempest needs damage advantage OR SBs to help knock out torps. Either way, you are losing cap - even moreso if you use SBs.
Quote:
Also a tempest gets ALOT more dps unless the raven is using fury torps and a couple of target painters.
Rubbish.
Not only can the Raven pick its damage type, but the tempest's on-structure damage will still be lower unless it uses missiles - which leaves it rough on cap (no NOS to counter the raven's NOS)... and it will have to fight within 20km anyway in order to keep the raven scrammed... so there's no avoiding it.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 02:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 01:51:17
Originally by: goodby4u
Ok by any chance do you have a scram on?Now by any chance does he have a scram on?
WHO GIVES A RATS ASS?
If he forces you to run, HE WINS.
Only if you running meets his goals.
For instance, if he is defending a system versus pirates then it meets his goals if he can get you to leave the system, but if he isnt fast enough to catch you, you can do harm while he ponderously tries to get in the way.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.01.05 02:09:00 -
[32]
you're using a tempest
thats you're problem.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
Free Trade Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 06:14:00 -
[33]
Edited by: goodby4u on 05/01/2007 06:15:16
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 01:51:17
Originally by: goodby4u
Ok by any chance do you have a scram on?Now by any chance does he have a scram on?
WHO GIVES A RATS ASS?
If he forces you to run, HE WINS.
Quote:
Second difference is your cap can last longer,look at it this way,i guess hes using a t2 XL shield booster,in which unless he has steroids he cannot hold it forever(bar the navy raven with uber faction and cap rigs).
And he will have NOS pretty much no matter what. Tempest needs damage advantage OR SBs to help knock out torps. Either way, you are losing cap - even moreso if you use SBs.
Quote:
Also a tempest gets ALOT more dps unless the raven is using fury torps and a couple of target painters.
Rubbish.
Not only can the Raven pick its damage type, but the tempest's on-structure damage will still be lower unless it uses missiles - which leaves it rough on cap (no NOS to counter the raven's NOS)... and it will have to fight within 20km anyway in order to keep the raven scrammed... so there's no avoiding it.
Yes if he forces you to run he wins,but keep in mind you have the ability to run here doesnt.
Less?Are you kidding me?I'd like to see your math...Sure the raven can choose his damage,but keep in mind battleships usually have even damage resistance and the tempest has the ability to choose its damage also,just spread out through 2-3 damage types.
Most raven setups ive seen include 1-2 nos,which is a plus for the tempest because that will also have 1-2 nos,given they have the same they cancel eachother out.
Oh and i'd also like to know,if its true why the raven has more dps,the tempest has 2 damage bonuses vs the ravens 1,plus has higher rate of fire.
__________________________________________
Yes it is great being amarr. |
Kenneys
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 08:30:00 -
[34]
Umm nos domi kills everything including ravens, rokhs, blasterthrons (tech 2s).. every single battleship you can think of. Heck, throw in every single cruiser, HACs, assault frigates, tech 2 ships etc etc.
High slots : 4 heavy nos
mid slots : Injector, mwd, 2 webbers, 1 scramb
low slots : 1 large repper, 1 med repper, 5 armor thingies (hardeners etc etc)
The only counter i can think of is a t3 battleship with 5 heavy nos, or a passively tanked ship.. which usually means it lacks either a scrambler, a webber, or a mwd = you can get away easily.
Why are you complaining about a raven.. which is really quite pathetic in pvp, when you should be complaining against Nos.
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 09:10:00 -
[35]
get a nanophoon and toast him. Or get tempest .. put 4 800mm AC and 4 Heavy named neuteres. Fit 2 injectors to feed the neuterers. Ok done. he has no tank. Now you just have to kill him before his missiles do the same to you.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 09:36:00 -
[36]
Piloting in theory is a great way to feel sorry for yourself. Ship X vs ship Y will always come down to setups and pilots.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 10:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kenneys
Umm nos domi kills everything including ravens, rokhs, blasterthrons (tech 2s).. every single battleship you can think of. Heck, throw in every single cruiser, HACs, assault frigates, tech 2 ships etc etc.
High slots : 4 heavy nos
mid slots : Injector, mwd, 2 webbers, 1 scramb
low slots : 1 large repper, 1 med repper, 5 armor thingies (hardeners etc etc)
The only counter i can think of is a t3 battleship with 5 heavy nos, or a passively tanked ship.. which usually means it lacks either a scrambler, a webber, or a mwd = you can get away easily.
Why are you complaining about a raven.. which is really quite pathetic in pvp, when you should be complaining against Nos.
Yep... NOS is overpowered too.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 10:04:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 10:04:48
Originally by: goodby4u
Oh and i'd also like to know,if its true why the raven has more dps,the tempest has 2 damage bonuses vs the ravens 1,plus has higher rate of fire.
They're comparable in terms of DPS... Yeah, even with the ROF+damage bonus. And I believe that's considering missiles on the Tempest, rather than NOS to counter the Raven's NOS.
If this thread is still going tomorrow, I'll pop up quickfit again and make some proper numbers for you. It is getting late, and I'm going to be awfully tired tomorrow! 
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
Free Trade Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 10:23:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 10:04:48
Originally by: goodby4u
Oh and i'd also like to know,if its true why the raven has more dps,the tempest has 2 damage bonuses vs the ravens 1,plus has higher rate of fire.
They're comparable in terms of DPS... Yeah, even with the ROF+damage bonus. And I believe that's considering missiles on the Tempest, rather than NOS to counter the Raven's NOS.
If this thread is still going tomorrow, I'll pop up quickfit again and make some proper numbers for you. It is getting late, and I'm going to be awfully tired tomorrow!
Uhh quickfit?That thing is bugged for caclulating dps,i put a revalation up there with a full rack of XL beam lasers and it told me it will do -120 dps
__________________________________________
Yes it is great being amarr. |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 10:37:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 10:39:31
Originally by: goodby4u
Uhh quickfit?That thing is bugged for caclulating dps,i put a revalation up there with a full rack of XL beam lasers and it told me it will do -120 dps
Yeah It has seemed pretty bugged since its Kali versions. I'm not sure I can trust its current DPS numbers.
Nonetheless, pre-kali, Ravens were doing close to blaster ship damage with T2 torps.  Those got nerfed to around T1 torp level, and EVERYONE's damage got nerfed a bit across the board. From what I can recall, A T2 fit tempest using T2 ammo did around the same DPS as a Raven with T1 missiles and T2 mods, I'm thinking 2x BCUs on the Raven, and 1x Gyro on the Tempest...
At this point I'm reasonably sure that the raven and tempest's DPS are very similar.
There's a DPS spreadsheet graph generator out there, I believe created by Naughty Boy, and currently maintained by Marn Prestoc. I'm not entirely sure where it is located at the moment...
EDIT: Ahh, here it is:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=248724
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 10:45:00 -
[41]
Another solution is 6 AC and 2 Smartbombs. This should be enough to cut a lot of his firepower IF you manage to get in best range to blast his torpedoes.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 10:39:31
Originally by: goodby4u
Uhh quickfit?That thing is bugged for caclulating dps,i put a revalation up there with a full rack of XL beam lasers and it told me it will do -120 dps
Yeah It has seemed pretty bugged since its Kali versions. I'm not sure I can trust its current DPS numbers.
Nonetheless, pre-kali, Ravens were doing close to blaster ship damage with T2 torps. Those got nerfed to around T1 torp level, and EVERYONE's damage got nerfed a bit across the board. From what I can recall, A T2 fit tempest using T2 ammo did around the same DPS as a Raven with T1 missiles and T2 mods, I'm thinking 2x BCUs on the Raven, and 1x Gyro on the Tempest...
At this point I'm reasonably sure that the raven and tempest's DPS are very similar.
There's a DPS spreadsheet graph generator out there, I believe created by Naughty Boy, and currently maintained by Marn Prestoc. I'm not entirely sure where it is located at the moment...
EDIT: Ahh, here it is:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=248724
Actually a Tempest using d650mms and a single gyro will outdamage a torp raven using 2 BCUs by a small margin (Tempest dps w/one dmg mod = 591, Raven dps w/two dmg mods = 550). However, when you consider the signature radius of the Tempest (340) the ravens torps will only have 468 dps. That's a 26% difference in damage in favor of the tempest.
The tempest will be faster, more agile, able to tackle and has a leftover slot for random EW. The raven's tank will be the difference. Assuming 2x invuln II and a EM hardener II for the shield tank and 3 actives t2 and a IFF for the armor tank on the Tempest... and of course that both pilots have the best possible ammo for the situation loaded (phased plasma and bane torps).
Tempest - DPS against the raven's tank = 166
Raven - DPS against the tempest's tank = 161
Assuming both ships are using medium drones and 2x heavy nos, those aspects cancel each other out.
Then it's down to sustainability, a raven with 2 heavy nos and t2 siege launchers is never going to be able to fit an injector but the tempest should be able to. Well the actual outcome is anyones guess... as it should be.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:16:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 11:18:12
Originally by: Dixon
Actually a Tempest using d650mms and a single gyro will outdamage a torp raven using 2 BCUs by a small margin (Tempest dps w/one dmg mod = 591, Raven dps w/two dmg mods = 550). However, when you consider the signature radius of the Tempest (340) the ravens torps will only have 468 dps. That's a 26% difference in damage in favor of the tempest.
The tempest will be faster, more agile, able to tackle and has a leftover slot for random EW. The raven's tank will be the difference. Assuming 2x invuln II and a EM hardener II for the shield tank and 3 actives t2 and a IFF for the armor tank on the Tempest... and of course that both pilots have the best possible ammo for the situation loaded (phased plasma and bane torps).
Tempest - DPS against the raven's tank = 166
Raven - DPS against the tempest's tank = 161
Assuming both ships are using medium drones and 2x heavy nos, those aspects cancel each other out.
Then it's down to sustainability, a raven with 2 heavy nos and t2 siege launchers is never going to be able to fit an injector but the tempest should be able to. Well the actual outcome is anyones guess... as it should be.
Ahh... there we go. He did the work for us 
I wasn't far off... basically, comparable DPS.
A few comments though:
- On Tempest's single EW slot: no longer is there really any EW that is effective against missile ships. It looks like most people are fitting TDs, so it can still be effective against a blaster rokh... TD + slow orbit...
- You mention the Tempest's speed and agility... but this means arse all in a fight with a missile ship.
- If rigs continue to get cheaper, I imagine that it is concievable that the Raven's tank will skyrocket in effectiveness, while a Tempest fitting tank rigs gets sorta screwed - loses its agility, which is what makes the Tempest a Tempest, after all. 
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Arktaos
Minmatar
The Bratwurst Burglars
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:18:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Arktaos on 05/01/2007 11:18:55
Use Phased Plasma ammo (it beats EMP)
Use tracking disruptor(s) against the rokh
Carry a medium can with xtra cap boosters.
Use range+sensor damps.
Use a nanophoon.
Be creative.
EDIT: it can also be great to go with a single repper tank and then have 2 siege missile bays instead of 2 nos.
---------------------------------
|
Spaced Skunk
Yesodic Nomads Corp
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:19:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Blind Man
you're using a tempest
thats you're problem.
Amen to that.
The damage is bad, there too many ammo type that fill cargospace up so much you dont have much room for cap injectors.
While I like my Tempest, I will only use in gang.
|
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
Free Trade Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:20:00 -
[46]
Edited by: goodby4u on 05/01/2007 11:22:59
Ok just calculated dps,the tempest and the raven have exactly the same dps base no skills no ship skills no nothing.
This tells me the tempest has a good chance of having atleast 25% more dps(extra 5% per lvl bonus).
EDIT:Uhhh...I just read the dps post,that must mean evegeek is wrong
__________________________________________
Yes it is great being amarr. |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:23:00 -
[47]
Originally by: goodby4u
Ok just calculated dps,the tempest and the raven have exactly the same dps base no skills no ship skills no nothing.
This tells me the tempest has a good chance of having atleast 25% more dps(extra 5% per lvl bonus).
Read up a ways, Dixon did the work for us. They basically come out to the same DPS, considering tank and such.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:26:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Ahh... there we go. He did the work for us
I wasn't far off... basically, comparable DPS.
A few comments though:
- On Tempest's single EW slot: no longer is there really any EW that is effective against missile ships. It looks like most people are fitting TDs, so it can still be effective against a blaster rokh... TD + slow orbit...
- You mention the Tempest's speed and agility... but this means arse all in a fight with a missile ship.
- If rigs continue to get cheaper, I imagine that it is concievable that the Raven's tank will skyrocket in effectiveness, while a Tempest fitting tank rigs gets sorta screwed - loses its agility, which is what makes the Tempest a Tempest, after all.
Well I actually ran the numbers against a blaster Rokh as well and a Tempest with a tracking disruptor would most likely crush a blaster Rokh, especially if the Rokh is using t2 ammo.
But rigs could marginally change outcomes of such fights as you said however these comments are quite strange:
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
You mention the Tempest's speed and agility... but this means arse all in a fight with a missile ship.
True but when you combine with this:
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
If rigs continue to get cheaper, I imagine that it is concievable that the Raven's tank will skyrocket in effectiveness, while a Tempest fitting tank rigs gets sorta screwed - loses its agility, which is what makes the Tempest a Tempest, after all.
It seems odd that abilities that mean 'arse all' in such a fight would have such a devastating effect on the Tempest.
But mind you I only reminded you of the several advantages the Tempest has over the Raven (speed, tackle = solo ability) since you've really only focused on the Raven's advantage (pwnage tank).
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
You mention the Tempest's speed and agility... but this means arse all in a fight with a missile ship.
True but when you combine with this:
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
If rigs continue to get cheaper, I imagine that it is concievable that the Raven's tank will skyrocket in effectiveness, while a Tempest fitting tank rigs gets sorta screwed - loses its agility, which is what makes the Tempest a Tempest, after all.
It seems odd that abilities that mean 'arse all' in such a fight would have such a devastating effect on the Tempest.
Erm, yeah, I was getting sidetracked. The armor rig penalty seems carelessly addressed and overpanalizing to me. You are right of course, it wouldn't mean anything against a Raven... but I try to avoid thinking about SPECIFIC setups. Ie. I would hate to stick armor rigs in a Tempest JUST to fight a Raven... unless rigs end up costing around 50k or something... which we all know isn't going to happen.
You can set up near any ship to thwart another specific ship if you know the enemy's tactics/setup. I'm trying to think along the lines of generalist setups.
Quote:
But mind you I only reminded you of the several advantages the Tempest has over the Raven (speed, tackle = solo ability) since you've really only focused on the Raven's advantage (pwnage tank).
Again, though: as rigs get cheaper, that disadvantage will go away.
I am still of the opinion that if your enemy forces you to run, they've won.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
kill0rbunny
Caldari
Chimera Intelligence Agency
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:44:00 -
[50]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 05/01/2007 11:47:40
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 05/01/2007 11:46:13
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Again, though: as rigs get cheaper, that disadvantage will go away.
I am still of the opinion that if your enemy forces you to run, they've won.
Then any fast ship that can orbit you at 60km and shoot you with longrange weapons has won, because it doesn't need to scramble something if you win by making him warp out.
No, that's just not true.
Imho, the ship that gets the killmail has won.
If it wasn't so, i can consider me winning against a drake in my platerax, because it warped out on 5% shield while i had still 40% armor left. I just don't feel like winning because my ship was jammend and torn apart by his mates, while his ship was still intact.
Ships that cannot be killed but cannot kill anyone either not what i consider winning eve.
EVE-+NLINE Supporter of T+TALHELLDEATH |
Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:51:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate
1v1, i can not beat a raven with my autocannon tempest.
1v1, i can not beat a rokh (with blasters) with my autocannon tempest.
You have useful available med-slots that raven and rokh don't have, they use them all for tanking (and eventually propulsion and scrambler). If you can't figure out how to make advantage of that, switch to caldari and all you have to do is press f1-f8.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Then any fast ship that can orbit you at 60km and shoot you with longrange weapons has won, because it doesn't need to scramble something if you win by making him warp out.
Yeah, you certainly present an interesting gray area. He certainly hasn't won, because you were likely not a huge thread to him. On the other hand, you certainly haven't won, and you won't feel very good about yourself.
Quote:
If it wasn't so, i can consider me winning against a drake in my platerax, because it warped out on 5% shield while i had still 40% armor left. I just don't feel like winning because my ship was jammend and torn apart by his mates, while his ship was still intact.
I would say - cool, you kicked the Drake's ass. I mean, you essentially won that fight... how he got away, I don't know. Stabs? Ugh. Not enough of a stab nerf?
Unfortunately, he called in his friends. THEY killed you. You won the fight against him, but lost the fight against them.
See where I'm coming from with that?
Anyway, that brings up the overriding point, though:
Quote:
Ships that cannot be killed but cannot kill anyone either are pretty boring, who wants such crap?
Solo work is a tricky thing to talk about, because it so rarely (unfortuantely as it may be) works out that way. When in a gang, ships that can't/have a hard time with tackle[ing] still inflict an incredible amount of damage, and maintain great survivability as well. (Raven, B-Rokh, and Geddon come to mind here...)
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 11:56:00 -
[53]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 05/01/2007 11:47:40
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 05/01/2007 11:46:13
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Again, though: as rigs get cheaper, that disadvantage will go away.
I am still of the opinion that if your enemy forces you to run, they've won.
Then any fast ship that can orbit you at 60km and shoot you with longrange weapons has won, because it doesn't need to scramble something if you win by making him warp out.
No, that's just not true.
Imho, the ship that gets the killmail has won.
you can think like that others wont. If his objective was to anoy you and make you warp he won. I myself never fit scramblers. This gives -me an extra mid to be sure I dont loose. And that is enough for me
you would be scared how many people forget to try to warp out.. so used tehy are on the idea that they will be scrambled.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 12:03:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 05/01/2007 12:04:26
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
you would be scared how many people forget to try to warp out.. so used tehy are on the idea that they will be scrambled.
LOL - ain't that the truth.
I was astounded when I watched Lyticus's Zealot fights in Veto's "One Year" video. In some of his fihts, he has no scram... and he still got kills. Totally crazy.
I have to admit to failing to jump/warp when I could have, on several occasions. 
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Happster
Polaris Project
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 12:11:00 -
[55]
Who said in the first place that Minmatars were supose to win 1vs1 against any other BS?
Thats not one of the Minmatars advantages...Its not what we are ment to do.
And for the BOB dude who said if you cant take out a Rohk with 4 missiles, there is something wrong with you, have no clue!!
A Rohk with 4 torps, and other 4 high with NOS / Neuts......the Tempest will run out of cap and tank faster then you can say BOO! And on top of it, the Rohk has an uber tank, and have no problem taking the damage from a Tempest.
Anyway....i dont see any of the Minmatar ships as solo ganking ships. That is for other races. I see Minmatars more in small gangs were we do hit and runs. In that we are strong. Our alpha in gang is awsome. Rest we simply suck. But i guess thats life. Either live it or swop race....
Wont take that long to train up some decent missile / Torps and caldari BS ;)
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 12:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Happster
Who said in the first place that Minmatars were supose to win 1vs1 against any other BS?
Thats not one of the Minmatars advantages...Its not what we are ment to do.
And for the BOB dude who said if you cant take out a Rohk with 4 missiles, there is something wrong with you, have no clue!!
A Rohk with 4 torps, and other 4 high with NOS / Neuts......the Tempest will run out of cap and tank faster then you can say BOO! And on top of it, the Rohk has an uber tank, and have no problem taking the damage from a Tempest.
Anyway....i dont see any of the Minmatar ships as solo ganking ships. That is for other races. I see Minmatars more in small gangs were we do hit and runs. In that we are strong. Our alpha in gang is awsome. Rest we simply suck. But i guess thats life. Either live it or swop race....
Wont take that long to train up some decent missile / Torps and caldari BS ;)
say that to all the nanophoons that pwon almost any BS all over eve.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Happster
Polaris Project
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 12:22:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Happster on 05/01/2007 12:23:36
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Happster
Who said in the first place that Minmatars were supose to win 1vs1 against any other BS?
Thats not one of the Minmatars advantages...Its not what we are ment to do.
And for the BOB dude who said if you cant take out a Rohk with 4 missiles, there is something wrong with you, have no clue!!
A Rohk with 4 torps, and other 4 high with NOS / Neuts......the Tempest will run out of cap and tank faster then you can say BOO! And on top of it, the Rohk has an uber tank, and have no problem taking the damage from a Tempest.
Anyway....i dont see any of the Minmatar ships as solo ganking ships. That is for other races. I see Minmatars more in small gangs were we do hit and runs. In that we are strong. Our alpha in gang is awsome. Rest we simply suck. But i guess thats life. Either live it or swop race....
Wont take that long to train up some decent missile / Torps and caldari BS ;)
say that to all the nanophoons that pwon almost any BS all over eve.
Nanophoons biggest advantage is its abillity to run. But it does most damage with torps, not with AC's or Arties;) And against a Rohk, the Nanophoon would run ;)
Both BS would have more or like the same setup in high.....But the rohk would be able to put up a better tank....
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 12:26:00 -
[58]
Doubt it.. Rock would never hit the phoon for any considerable damage. Also Typhoon has lots of drones. My money would be on phoon.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Happster
Polaris Project
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 12:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Doubt it.. Rock would never hit the phoon for any considerable damage. Also Typhoon has lots of drones. My money would be on phoon.
Well...ive seen a Rohk tank sentry guns+3 BS and some smaller ships. And he had no problem doing so....
So i doubt a single phoon would be able to do any deep scratches on it....
|
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 13:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 04/01/2007 06:08:44
Originally by: Dahak2150
EMP L.
Considering how EM shield rigs are plummeting in price, and considering the Rokh's natural super tank... does that even do enough damage?
The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh.
(BTW, I'm *asking*... as I don't fly Minmatar battleships yet... just cruisers and BCs. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.)
the rohk is an absolute pig....
have you tried multiple tracking disrupters and webbie drones? It has no tracking bonus, and only has 6 mids. 1 x-large booster, 2 tech II invuln fields, means 3 "utility" mids. Injector, MWD, and scram means that It can only use lowslot tracking enhancers, which suck tbh.
He is only doing 2 damage types.
PDU II's help out a shield tank tremendously.... esp 2 or more.
Figure out what he has in his lowslots. that is how you will beat him.
Best advice in thread, hands down.
----------------------------------------
Friends Forever
|
Brother Todd
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 13:30:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Doubt it.. Rock would never hit the phoon for any considerable damage. Also Typhoon has lots of drones. My money would be on phoon.
Well...ive seen a Rohk tank sentry guns+3 BS and some smaller ships. And he had no problem doing so....
So i doubt a single phoon would be able to do any deep scratches on it....
No single BS can tank another single BS... but 3 bs + some smaller ships, that's just pure bull****. Unless the other pilots were t1 fitted with low-damage ammo...
|
CRUSH3R
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 20:42:00 -
[62]
6*650mm t2, 2 L NOS
mwd, 24-26 km disruptor, web\damper t2, 2*dampers t2
lar t2, expl, kin, term, dc, 1600
damage rig + armor hp rig + whatever rig
2*t2 dampers with lev 4 skill on its strength is killing all bs lock range till 20-23 km. Raven\rokh have no speed to keep their lock range vs tempest, shield-tanks = no sb.
it's not an uber-solo setup but 1 on 1 it can kill a large number of targets.
Also you may try ecm med drones, sometimes they work.
|
Isonkon Serikain
Gallente
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 21:47:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Goumindong
P.S. 45-50KM falloff max w/ barrage.
Falloff rigs are nice.
Unfortunately, ships aren't balanced WITHOUT rigs. WITH rigs, it is a disaster.
Ships should be balanced pre-rigs, tbh. Otherwise, rigs just fall victim to the problem they were supposed to help solve: cookie cutter setups.
Rigs were never supposed to solve cookie cutter setups...
And if they were, well, i dont really know what the devs were smoking when they thought up that one.
Anyway, before rigs its pretty balanced, and Active tanked raven is going to break eventualy due to cap and a passive tanked raven will not be strong enough to withstand the barrage.
RIGS should have never seen the light...
Pity the fool |
Rehmes
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Posted - 2007.01.05 22:20:00 -
[64]
Ive tried sensor damps on Rohks while flying the Tempest as well as the Tds they both work well. Besides tbh the Rohks dmg output is overhyped tbh.. The Tempest should fit 2 hvy nos ofc, and dont forget that the Rohk while having a nice passive tank it does have to sacrifice some of its mids for a mwd/scram even a webber tbh. That doesnt leave the Rohk with the uber tank people cliam it has.
Its the same damned arguement over the Hurricane vs the Drake, The drake has to sacrifice some of its slots while the Hurricane does not. Simply play it smart and its and the match is yours.With Barrage ammo you could hit farther away from its optimal if you so wish.
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Hydrian Alante
The Loot Company
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Posted - 2007.01.05 22:20:00 -
[65]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 04/01/2007 06:29:13
"The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh."
It can out-track the Rokh. At which point the out-damaging and out-tanking tends to follow.
(hey, a Caldari ship not immune to tracking disruptors. Who would've thought? ;s
I think you are right!
Especially the Tempest has enough spare med slots for some nasty electronic warfare mods.
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Rehmes
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Posted - 2007.01.05 22:28:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Hydrian Alante
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 04/01/2007 06:29:13
"The tempest can't outrange the Rokh. It can't outdamage the Rokh. It sure as hell can't out-tank the Rokh."
It can out-track the Rokh. At which point the out-damaging and out-tanking tends to follow.
(hey, a Caldari ship not immune to tracking disruptors. Who would've thought? ;s
I think you are right!
Especially the Tempest has enough spare med slots for some nasty electronic warfare mods.
EXACTLY!! Use sensor damps or Tds the Rohk will cry and you will laugh
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Kalek Astroth
Amarr
The Electrocuted
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Posted - 2007.01.06 04:41:00 -
[67]
imo 2 H neut will help a lot to kill a raven
also med ecm drones can be helpfull
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velocoraptor
Art of War
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.06 06:12:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kenneys
Umm nos domi kills everything including blasterthrons (tech 2s).. every single battleship you can think of.
High slots : 4 heavy nos
mid slots : Injector, mwd, 2 webbers, 1 scramb
low slots : 1 large repper, 1 med repper, 5 armor thingies (hardeners etc etc)
The only counter i can think of is a t3 battleship with 5 heavy nos, or a passively tanked ship.. which usually means it lacks either a scrambler, a webber, or a mwd = you can get away easily.
Why are you complaining about a raven.. which is really quite pathetic in pvp, when you should be complaining against Nos.
lol
(i.e.):
That Domi setup won't fit I think (maybe wrong), but in any case it would die quickly to a decent gankathron pilot. Even 2 LAR II's can barelly hold the neut thron (maybe not even those).
Most probably it would also die to a nos-hype WITH tackling,speed etc mods.
Domi was maybe overpoderedered.After ecm nerf it's not. Nos is a bit of an i-win, but not the Domi (it's still a very nice, versatile ship I fly it a lot and with good drone and other skills it stands a chance against many things and it's very good for a tier 1 BS. But not overpowered and certainly killable by many tier 1 (nanophoon anyone), tier2 and tier 3 BS's.
Kali IS the goddess of destruction after all |
Niding
Polaris Project
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.07 13:29:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Niding on 07/01/2007 13:31:19
Edited by: Niding on 07/01/2007 13:30:11
Originally by: Brother Todd
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Doubt it.. Rock would never hit the phoon for any considerable damage. Also Typhoon has lots of drones. My money would be on phoon.
Well...ive seen a Rohk tank sentry guns+3 BS and some smaller ships. And he had no problem doing so....
So i doubt a single phoon would be able to do any deep scratches on it....
No single BS can tank another single BS... but 3 bs + some smaller ships, that's just pure bull****. Unless the other pilots were t1 fitted with low-damage ammo...
Ive checked the loot of the BSs in question....T2 fittings across the board.
But since I dont fly tempest/minnies im not going to join in on the discussion.
I credit some of the kills to good piloting.
I can see the very large dronebay of the phoon being a good asset (t2 heavies hurts) BUT the tank of a Rokh is just too heavy for a nanophoon to deal with.
If the Rokh uses torps also, the phoon is history (remember. Id say most caldari pilots got tons of missile skillpoints).
Ofcourse, it all comes down to how the Rokh config is, but Ill put my isk on the Rokh 9 out of 10 times.
*Niding hugs his abaddon and ponders*
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Doffeh
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Posted - 2007.01.07 18:03:00 -
[70]
Torps are very booring, coming at you all slow and all.
Maybe I got it all wrong, but I never thought of BS' as solo ships. Also, I don't mind the rokh being better than a phoon or a tempest (in certain situations), as it is a ship demanding some more skills and more wallet. I do mind that maelstrom showing so little potential though.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.01.07 20:28:00 -
[71]
use the magic nos, slap on 3, nos them dry, and kill them, tanks no worky too good with no cap, uber resists or not they go down eventually.
Oh and use neutralizer drones as well.
NOS/NEUT > All.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Ghengis Thar
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:51:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Kenneys
Umm nos domi kills everything including ravens, rokhs, blasterthrons (tech 2s).. every single battleship you can think of. Heck, throw in every single cruiser, HACs, assault frigates, tech 2 ships etc etc.
High slots : 4 heavy nos
mid slots : Injector, mwd, 2 webbers, 1 scramb
low slots : 1 large repper, 1 med repper, 5 armor thingies (hardeners etc etc)
The only counter i can think of is a t3 battleship with 5 heavy nos, or a passively tanked ship.. which usually means it lacks either a scrambler, a webber, or a mwd = you can get away easily.
Why are you complaining about a raven.. which is really quite pathetic in pvp, when you should be complaining against Nos.
u absolute idiot any ship that doesnt need cap for its guns can pwn a nos domi without alot of trouble u just need to learn how quickly a gang of hammherhead IIs will kill all that domis heavys even if he micromanages his drones the relaunching them drops his DPS enough for a pest maelstrom vagabond sleipnir claymore muninn to tear through its puny tank with quake cos it handles like a cow and couldnt dodge a planet
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