EVE Search - why the 2 minute timer and probing needs to go

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

why the 2 minute timer and probing needs to go

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.07 04:57:00 - [1] Edited by: subvert on 07/01/2007 04:54:09 Situation: You're playing EVE, you have to go to sleep to get up for work the next day. You're getting ready to log off, and some people jump into the system and start scanning for you. You now have to sit at your computer warping between safe spots forever until they leave, because if you ever log off even though you have NO aggression timer, they will scan you while you're logged out in that 2 minute window and kill you. The pirates sit in there for hours, and now you can't go to sleep because the game requires you sit bored and tired and stressed warping between safe spots. That is annoying meta gaming, punishment for people who have lives. With this way of things you can do better than pirate someone's ship, you can pirate their real life time and responsibilities. Want more people to leave empire? This is one thing that has to be fixed. There is no skill involved in killing someone who isnt even in the game anymore. Flame on, I speak truth.
Ishiko Tanaka	Posted - 2007.01.07 05:25:00 - [2] You could try leaving the system? Warp to 0 on a gate and escape to another system. Hit a system with 5 different gates, warp to one, jump through and then log off if no one is in the next system. 2 minutes of work.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.07 05:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/01/2007 05:57:40 Originally by: Ishiko Tanaka You could try leaving the system? Warp to 0 on a gate and escape to another system. Hit a system with 5 different gates, warp to one, jump through and then log off if no one is in the next system. 2 minutes of work. Warp bubble. The OP here is exactly right. If you have no aggro timer and you need to log off, you should be safe... especially if you're in a POS! Today, if you log off in a POS, you will warp out of the bubble and they will be able to scan you down and kill you. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.07 06:43:00 - [4] In a pos yes you should be safe, in space take your chances. -----
Aldir Rundal Gallente The Order of Chivalry ORION FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.01.07 06:52:00 - [5] Allowing Players to be scanned out simply because they logged out, without agression is rediculous to be honest. I have to agree with the op and DS, it should not be permited to happen. The way it is now border lines griefing as it is. We don't need anymore of that here. Recruiting
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.07 06:57:00 - [6] what EVE needs is an exit system similar to EQ, you can exit right away(like current logout) but be at risk of death or have a form of "camp out" that has a 30 second timer but removes you from the game and the camp out is canceled should you agress or be agressed directly. the current logout system isnt any different then killing the process really.
Dano Sarum Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.07 07:08:00 - [7] I'd be all in favour of ships not "dissapearing" at all when you log out, simply ctrl-q and dissapearing in space is pretty lame imo. Stations, outposts and POS are supposed to be safe places, leaving them is meant to be dangerous. Frankly I think its retarded how it currently is that you can just ctrl-q and in two minutes not be there anymore. Probing isn't all that easy (ok its a lot easier now) and requires specialised skills and equipment. It can easilly be avoided. Game mechanics are what they are, there are bigger problems imo like local and standings indicators. ______ <Insert Sig Here>
Aknot Wat	Posted - 2007.01.07 07:39:00 - [8] Edited by: Aknot Wat on 07/01/2007 07:36:11 The fact that when you log off and are in the protection of a POS and the game makes you leave that POS from the "random warp" coding after CTRL-Q is simply unacceptable and needs to be addressed ASAP.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.07 07:45:00 - [9] ? Start a warp then log out. By the time you drop out of warp then ewarp off and come to a full stop the probers will have very little time to both probe your ship down and kill it.
Elaron Minmatar Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.07 08:10:00 - [10] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Start a warp then log out. By the time you drop out of warp then ewarp off and come to a full stop the probers will have very little time to both probe your ship down and kill it. If you've been ratting, and have left wrecks behind in the belts, then you can't even do this as apparently shooting wrecks initiates the 15 minute PvP timer against the owner of the wreck. In EVE, you can fit to gank, tank or tackle. Pick any two.
Sovy Kurosei Amarr Therianthropic Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.07 08:16:00 - [11] The only work around to this would be to shoot your own wrecks. I've been doing that with jetcans and now wrecks for a long time ever since I have been out ratting in low security space. ___________________
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.07 08:53:00 - [12] Edited by: subvert on 07/01/2007 08:52:39 Originally by: Dano Sarum Probing isn't all that easy (ok its a lot easier now) and requires specialised skills and equipment. It can easilly be avoided. no, it can't. read my example. also what's this about "specialized skills and eqipment" -- it's just skills and mods like everything else in the game, theres nothing special about it. you're avoiding the point though: why allow this kind of grief meta gaming? let people hunt each other, I dont care, but why allow people to destroy non-timered LOGGED OUT ships? that kind of defeats the purpose of timers since in reality everyone ALWAYS has a timer and the ONLY way to avoid it is to never log out of EVE: something people with lives can't do!
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.07 09:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Andrue on 07/01/2007 09:07:01 Move to Empire. Problem solved. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.07 11:44:00 - [14] Solution, if unagresed ewarp has cloaking Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Jameroz Independent Frontiers Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.07 11:58:00 - [15] I agree that this shouldn't be problem in a POS... when you want to logout you should go to a POS / Station. I would even make the time more like 5 minutes or ships never disappearing. Logging out while you're being camped for in a system just doesn't work. If you really have to go you can sacrifice/risk your ship. Anyone can just warp around 15 minutes between safe spots and wait the pvp timer to run out and then logout to avoid being killed even tho they did engage themselves. I think this would further promote people building more POS / Stations and also give better reason to use Low Sec systems. Independent Frontiers is recruiting
Aaron	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:01:00 - [16] I aggree with the orig post, I lost a raven recently due to someone shooting my npc wreckage, i logged off and i was aggro'ed with out even knowing. Yes what u say is spot on, u cant log off when a large group of known hostiles come into syzistem and they will probe you in 5 seconds and kill u, or they will use the possible exploit i just mentioned. my solution to this is as follows: - If players are aggro'ed somthing should appear on the screen saying they are aggro'ed. - Lone miners or NPC'ers should not be aggro'ed as they cannot defend against large groups of hostiles if they stay online, thats a fact. - Players should not be aggro'ed by hostiles shooting their NPC wrecks.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:14:00 - [17] Call me thick but I don't understand why ships with no pvp aggression flag wait two minutes before disappearing, in any case. I don't fully understand how different flags work tbh, but it seems as if the whole system could do with reworking and simplification. Someone explain to me how it should work ideally please? Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:20:00 - [18] A lot of ninja ratters fit prototype cloaks, might want to consider trying that. ________________________________________ ∞
Dane Hur Caldari Bloody Needles	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:21:00 - [19] Nothing needs to be changed, you can either log out at a POS or station, or you can stay out of the 0.0 and low sec areas, now you have 3 solutions to your problem.
Kusotarre Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:23:00 - [20] I don't agree at all with the OP. If there are enough people trying to kill you before the timer runs out, then they should have a good shot at it. First off, it's easy enough to get around. Have a deepsafe, or a long warp, start it,then log. Even with a shorter warp, you'd be fine nearly all the time, unless they have a great number of ships (think 10 BS, aligned towards you at short range). Second, chances that you're just about to log off, then get stuck getting away from a dozen people who jump in, is rather unlikely, and not worth "fixing" if it breaks the ability to kill people who ctrl-Q as soon as anyone enters local. Currently, up in Venal/Tenal/Branch, we have literally a few dozen, perhaps more, noobcorp raven pilots. They NPC away, as soon as you enter local, or at least within a minute, they log off. They wait a few minutes, then come back on. This small timer allows you to kill them. It allows you to kill people who eggregiously abuse the log off system.
Heritor Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Call me thick but I don't understand why ships with no pvp aggression flag wait two minutes before disappearing, in any case. I don't fully understand how different flags work tbh, but it seems as if the whole system could do with reworking and simplification. Someone explain to me how it should work ideally please? As far as I am aware, this was to stop pilots loggin out when trapped in a warp bubble after jumping through to 0.0, before uncloaking. Always where your seatbelt, its far harder for the aliens to abduct you!
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:39:00 - [22] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 07/01/2007 12:36:52 Originally by: Heritor As far as I am aware, [the 2 min log off timer] was to stop pilots loggin out when trapped in a warp bubble after jumping through to 0.0, before uncloaking. Well if that is the case, it is a totally illogical approach to problem solving by CCP. A Warp Bubble represents a blanket field of passive aggression. That is to say that any pilot who drops a bubble is laying down indiscriminate aggression in advance, just as with a minefield or similar. The moment another pilot warps into a bubble they should be flagged as engaged in pvp combat and should be prevented from logging out. Solving this issue at root instead of complicating game mechanics would be the way to go IMO. Is there any other basis for the two minute timer? Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Kusotarre If there are enough people trying to kill you before the timer runs out, then they should have a good shot at it. I'm not clear on why you think this at all. You would have a right to finish killing someone IMO if you had already engaged them. If you can't track them down before they decide to log out, why should you have a right to kill them? Originally by: Kusotarre First off, it's easy enough to get around. Have a deepsafe, or a long warp, start it,then log. Even with a shorter warp, you'd be fine nearly all the time, unless they have a great number of ships (think 10 BS, aligned towards you at short range). So, since workarounds exist, what's the point in delaying log out? Originally by: Kusotarre Second, chances that you're just about to log off, then get stuck getting away from a dozen people who jump in, is rather unlikely, and not worth "fixing" if it breaks the ability to kill people who ctrl-Q as soon as anyone enters local. Currently, up in Venal/Tenal/Branch, we have literally a few dozen, perhaps more, noobcorp raven pilots. They NPC away, as soon as you enter local, or at least within a minute, they log off. They wait a few minutes, then come back on. This small timer allows you to kill them. It allows you to kill people who eggregiously abuse the log off system. Such people are clearly cowards. Why are they worth your concern? Do they pose a threat to your sovereignty? Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:53:00 - [24] Edited by: subvert on 07/01/2007 12:51:39 Originally by: Jameroz Anyone can just warp around 15 minutes between safe spots and wait the pvp timer to run out and then logout to avoid being killed even tho they did engage themselves. uh no they can't. read my post pls, kthx. As I said, with no timer on you your ship remains in space after you log off for enough time to get probed and flagged. I repeat, you log off with no timer and your ship is still in space.

Devil Hanzo Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Elaron If you've been ratting, and have left wrecks behind in the belts, then you can't even do this as apparently shooting wrecks initiates the 15 minute PvP timer against the owner of the wreck. This is a bug though, and I hope you guys have reported it. As for why there is a timer, Jiekon says it best: Originally by: Jiekon the logoff timers are, imho fine. and are there to stop people entering pvp and then, oops, all of a sudden i'm into structure ctrl+q <phew> saved my uber BS. King of the Pink Sig - Karl Chroimcer Its red and very manly! - Devil Hanzo First sigjack by me ever. - Garthagk Violet would be even manlier - Conuion Meow

Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.07 13:13:00 - [26] Logging out at a POS is not a very wise idea. We've had much fun in the past taking out an hostile pos and replacing it with our own, then watching it omgbbq people logging back in at "their" pos. With the drastic decrease in probing times, the time for a non aggressed ship to disappear in space once a player logs needs to be reviewed. The collary to this though is that you should be given a short aggro timer after jumping and a full aggression timer if caught in an interdiction sphere/mobile warp disruptor to prevent people logging out to avoid combat, so called "logoffski".
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.07 13:15:00 - [27] Edited by: subvert on 07/01/2007 13:14:15 Originally by: Devil Hanzo That I cant answer. Im merely a mortal. Fair enough, but this was a side effect of the new probing system will only grow. There are people right now that do this exclusively, waiting for people to log and them blowing them up (no timers). Soon enough this will grow a lot, a lot more people will start doing it in many forms. one current popular form is this: stealthing a covert ops ship near someone's POS. Any time one of their ships goes there a logs, you probe it down and your gang kills it. that's not PVP mind you, it's Player vs Uncontrolled Ship. you never have to actually engage another player in pvp to get many many kills. other forms are doing it in busy systems, using locater agents to find your enemies and waiting for them to log. an industry player can do it. it didn't exist before the patch and imo was an oversight that needs to be changed before it really catched on and becomes a widespread tactic, and believe me people will abuse this to its full extent. I also want to point out that this has nothing to do with logoffski. As Irrilian said; change inderdiction sphere mechanics etc, things that should give aggression timers, but don't leave this in. This goes wayyy beyond the scope of logoffski because every single player in EVE is affected by it, its just a matter of how long this stays in, how fast people catch on and abuse it, and when it will happen to you.
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.01.07 13:15:00 - [28] Originally by: subvert Situation: Solution: Dock in a station before logging off. If you log in space in 0.0, you are taking your chances.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.07 13:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Fubear If you log in space in 0.0, you are taking your chances. Yes, but you haven't offered any reason why that should be the case. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.07 13:21:00 - [30] Edited by: subvert on 07/01/2007 13:17:57 Originally by: Fubear If you log in space in 0.0, you are taking your chances. translation: "you are taking your chances by having a life." Why should a game penalize you for taking a break? If you have no timers, didn't run around getting agression, there's no reason to punish you. there's also no reason to allow people to fight others when they log off in that condition. right now the best way to fight someone is to wait for them to log, because it's no risk to you and a garenteed kill. is that really how pvp should be?

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.