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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
235
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 02:22:12 -
[31] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Not all ships are meant to be good at all jobs. No, but all ships should actually be good at something unlike the paladin which is at best mediocre at everything. The paladin is the only marauder the basic design of which doesn't make sense. My their nature marauders are immobile, which means they are totally dependent on the ability of their weapons to apply damage to targets of varying size across all ranges because they cannot dictate range to compensate for tracking, at all, this is particularly a huge deal for battleships because their guns have awful tracking. The Vargur and Kronos take this into account and have tracking bonuses the golem has an explosion velocity and a target painter bonus. By contrast the Paladin has bonuses to optimal range and capacitor capacity. The ships with the least tracking problems get tracking bonuses, the ship with the worst tracking problems does not. Not only that but instead of getting a second damage application bonus like every other marauder it instead gets a cap bonus that should just be built into the hull since you always get the full 25% extra cap anyway. It's a badly designed ship that could be easily fixed.
Agreed.
I believe CCP design the Paladins this way so as to not obsolete the NMs.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
237
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 14:50:57 -
[32] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:frankly all the fault lies with the asb. the asb needs to be changed or banned from fitting on these ship classes. once the asb is fixed than all the t2 battleships will be in line. There is nothing wrong with ASB's. It's the only viable alternative against neuts atm besides passive shield tanking which the Marauders are terrible at. So what do the armor marauder have against neuts? nothing. thats right. the Cap battery is crap inb4 shield paladin the asb was a flawed design, and only created for crapmatar ships that were lacking mids. then they said well we need a armor asb too. lets limit it to 1, and make it crap.
It's true that the Cap Batteries and AARs are garbage but for some reason, CCP don't think they need addressing. Instead of complaining about how OP the ASBs are, I wish players would instead start complaining about how UN-OP the cap batteries and AARs are.
I would actually prefer if CCP gave the Armor Marauders a more powerful cap recharge and the Shield Marauders a much larger cargo bay capacity. |

Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
269
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 15:14:16 -
[33] - Quote
For those complaining about the Paladin...
It already has a larger cap recharge rate AND capacity than the Kronos - so much so that even firing the highest-cap ammo still gives it a longer cap life than the Kronos. In fact it has the best recharge and cap pool of any marauder. So yes, better cap recharge/capacity is already baked into the hull - but that's just the thing, people don't see things that aren't bonuses.
It also doesn't seem to need any application bonuses either. Pulse are awesome for tracking - maybe not as great as blasters, but I don't have any trouble hitting plenty of targets even before I use scripted tracking comps.
It's just my opinion - but I love my Paladin just the way it is. I don't want people messing with it, because if you get something given CCP will have to take something away and as I said, I like it precisely how it is now. It's a fantastic ship. All of the Marauders are.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1945
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Posted - 2015.11.15 20:31:58 -
[34] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:For those complaining about the Paladin...
It already has a larger cap recharge rate AND capacity than the Kronos - so much so that even firing the highest-cap ammo still gives it a longer cap life than the Kronos. In fact it has the best recharge and cap pool of any marauder. So yes, better cap recharge/capacity is already baked into the hull - but that's just the thing, people don't see things that aren't bonuses.
It also doesn't seem to need any application bonuses either. Pulse are awesome for tracking - maybe not as great as blasters, but I don't have any trouble hitting plenty of targets even before I use scripted tracking comps.
It's just my opinion - but I love my Paladin just the way it is. I don't want people messing with it, because if you get something given CCP will have to take something away and as I said, I like it precisely how it is now. It's a fantastic ship. All of the Marauders are.
Completely agree.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
237
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 02:06:36 -
[35] - Quote
The most powerful form of combat in Eve is Cap Warfare because neuts are OP as hell without any counters aside from ASBs. For this reason the Shield Marauders are good for both PVE and PVP and can be used everywhere. By contrast the Armor Marauders are entirely cap dependant and are extremely vulnerable to cap warfare which makes them only good for PVE in protective environments. They cannot be used solo unlike the Shield Marauders and are in dire need of a recompense for their extreme vulnerablity against cap warfare. |

Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2825
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 02:18:38 -
[36] - Quote
You mean you don't use a cap booster? |

Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
271
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 04:02:05 -
[37] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:The most powerful form of combat in Eve is Cap Warfare because neuts are OP as hell without any counters aside from ASBs. For this reason the Shield Marauders are good for both PVE and PVP and can be used everywhere. By contrast the Armor Marauders are entirely cap dependant and are extremely vulnerable to cap warfare which makes them only good for PVE in protective environments. They cannot be used solo unlike the Shield Marauders and are in dire need of a recompense for their extreme vulnerablity against cap warfare.
I'd say that's an iffy assertion.
Yes, after a point, cap warfare is the most powerful form. But getting to that point is the problem. If you jam someone, they're immediately out of the fight. If you turret disrupt someone, they are immediately gimped. If you start neuting someone, it doesn't really effect them until they have to start turning off active modules. Depending on the size of the ship and the size of the offensive neut, this takes a varying amount of time. The fight might end before the neut has had time to really cause an impact on the outcome. Not to mention that neuts already take a lot of cap to activate in the first place (and a lot of fitting resources), so the host ship isn't getting this for free either. With the incoming neut nerf, you can't even be guaranteed anymore that you'll be neuting more than you're draining yourself by activating the module.
Besides, there's a ton of counters already. As you pointed out, ASB - capless shield tanking, dependent on cargo. Cap boosters - from what I understand it's almost a stable of every PvP ship regardless. It's no secret that running a bunch of active modules - including tank, prop, point, weapons, etc, runs your capacitor dry on it's own. Hence why people already equip cap boosters, which already counter neuts very effectively.
I think that what needs to change is cap batteries need a very significant reduction in their fitting requirements across all sizes. Some people have put forth ideas on changing how cap batteries work. That's great and I support that, but until that happens, their current use does not warrant the resources the modules take up. Cut the fittings in half at the very least, and if they are made more useful we can talk about upping the requirements again. Make batteries easier to equip, more people will do so, and neuting will have a harder time taking effect.
(I've had one, one opponent equip a cap battery when I've been neuting him. I can't imagine how much he had to gimp his setup to use it, and it didn't help him at all. So like I said, for what these modules bring, which is virtually nothing, they need reduced fitting)
That a bit of an aside, though. You are correct that the armor marauders are a bit worse off in general, but that's the nature of armor and shield tanking being different and having different strengths. I like that EvE has interesting differences in that way because that means choices matter a bit more, instead of a system where everything *generally* works so it doesn't matter as much what you bring.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Kitten Ripper
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 10:59:32 -
[38] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:... I can fit cap batteries to help against neuts and such. That I don't mind. Of course I'd like a look at cap batteries to see if their fittings need adjustment as well as if they are effective enough at countering nos/neut warfare. I'm sorta ignorant as to their effectiveness. Maybe people can clear up that part....
o7 So what is wrong with fitting NOSes? Or is this another of your "sorta ignorant" things? |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2702
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 12:56:24 -
[39] - Quote
Kitten Ripper wrote: So what is wrong with fitting NOSes? Or is this another of your "sorta ignorant" things?
Massive fitting costs. Still don't keep up with neuts.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
272
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 13:02:16 -
[40] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Kitten Ripper wrote: So what is wrong with fitting NOSes? Or is this another of your "sorta ignorant" things?
Massive fitting costs. Still don't keep up with neuts.
Also probably doesn't keep up with cap consumption. Also assumes target will stay within NOS range. Also assumes a Marauder, a battleship-sized slowboating monster whose special ability is sitting still, might have a chance to chase down and NOS a fool.
Unlikely. NOS are an option, but unlikely to fulfill a need in this case.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1592
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 13:08:49 -
[41] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Kitten Ripper wrote: So what is wrong with fitting NOSes? Or is this another of your "sorta ignorant" things?
Massive fitting costs. Still don't keep up with neuts.
You'll never be happy. (PRO HINT: you can't have it all) |

big miker
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
380
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 18:44:04 -
[42] - Quote
Vargur and Golem are pretty good PVP wise infact. Paladin and Kronos lack. The main reason is 4 medium slots. Since it get's a bonus to MJD's you'd want to fit a combination like this:
MJD MWD Web Scram or Disruptor Cap booster
The Vargur and Golem are both able to do that in combination with a respectable tank. I'd love to see the Kronos or Paladin recieve a total of 5 medium slots. Hel, i'd even sign for 5 meds and 6 low slots on a Kronos!
Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / marauders
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
316
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 21:13:06 -
[43] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:frankly all the fault lies with the asb. the asb needs to be changed or banned from fitting on these ship classes. once the asb is fixed than all the t2 battleships will be in line. There is nothing wrong with ASB's. It's the only viable alternative against neuts atm besides passive shield tanking which the Marauders are terrible at. Nothing wrong with the ASB, it is one of a solo / small gang pilots best friends. I must admit it can get a bit crazy on the Vargur and Golem, but again that is partly due to the massive cargo bay of those ships and so could easily be tweaked.
Armour reps are a lot less cap dependant than shield reps. Combined with the fact that you would have a cap booster/s in the mids which are not as valuable as to an armour tanking ship, you can effectively perma run armour reps too until your cap boosters run out. Why do you think their is such a prevelance of dual or even triple rep armour ships; it is because it is one of the most powerful combinations for a solo / small gang pilot. They are much more common that dual ASBs.
Out of all things I think ASBs and AARs are in a good position. That being said I don't see why we can't have multiple AARs on an armour ship.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
316
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 21:21:35 -
[44] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:The most powerful form of combat in Eve is Cap Warfare because neuts are OP as hell without any counters aside from ASBs. For this reason the Shield Marauders are good for both PVE and PVP and can be used everywhere. By contrast the Armor Marauders are entirely cap dependant and are extremely vulnerable to cap warfare which makes them only good for PVE in protective environments. They cannot be used solo unlike the Shield Marauders and are in dire need of a recompense for their extreme vulnerablity against cap warfare. What... There are so many counters to cap warfare. It is one of the easiest forms of ewar to counter in my opinion, especially if your using capless weapons.
ECM on the other hand....
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
993
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 21:23:32 -
[45] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote: Nothing wrong with the ASB, it is one of a solo / small gang pilots best friends. I must admit it can get a bit crazy on the Vargur and Golem, but again that is partly due to the massive cargo bay of those ships and so could easily be tweaked.
for the love of god, don't take away from cargo capacity.
I use the vast majority of it on a daily basis in PVP, PVE, and structure bashing.
Edit... Also, I'm thinking bastion is going to end up being effected by the upcoming changes to ewar immunity on capitals. If they're taking it away from them, I'm pretty sure they're taking it from bastion Marauders. |

Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
237
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 09:54:25 -
[46] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Moac Tor wrote: Nothing wrong with the ASB, it is one of a solo / small gang pilots best friends. I must admit it can get a bit crazy on the Vargur and Golem, but again that is partly due to the massive cargo bay of those ships and so could easily be tweaked.
for the love of god, don't take away from cargo capacity. I use the vast majority of it on a daily basis in PVP, PVE, and structure bashing. Edit... Also, I'm thinking bastion is going to end up being effected by the upcoming changes to ewar immunity on capitals. If they're taking it away from them, I'm pretty sure they're taking it from bastion Marauders.
If they take Ewar immunity away from Bastion then the Marauders would be garbage and relegated into plain overpriced lev 4 mission boats.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
276
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 11:24:45 -
[47] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:If they take Ewar immunity away from Bastion then the Marauders would be garbage and relegated into plain overpriced lev 4 mission boats.
Don't give CCP any ideas. EWAR immunity is one of the primary reasons to use a Marauder. If they take that away, they'd have to give them something massive in return precisely because you'd be right, they would be garbage. Like maybe a very heavy mobility bonus, cap recharge supercharge, or something.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
995
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:00:38 -
[48] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:If they take Ewar immunity away from Bastion then the Marauders would be garbage and relegated into plain overpriced lev 4 mission boats.
Don't give CCP any ideas. EWAR immunity is one of the primary reasons to use a Marauder. If they take that away, they'd have to give them something massive in return precisely because you'd be right, they would be garbage. Like maybe a very heavy mobility bonus, cap recharge supercharge, or something.
Exactly. Bastion providing ewar immunity was CCP's fix for Marauders. Instead of actually rebalancing the ships, they just created a module.
If they take away ewar immunity, they might as well get rid of bastion and completely rebalance the hulls, as that is the only reason to even risk going into bastion. |

Ariz Black
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:10:57 -
[49] - Quote
just give the kronos its 90% webs back and all will be fine once again |

Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
995
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 17:32:40 -
[50] - Quote
Ariz Black wrote:just give the kronos its 90% webs back and all will be fine once again
This doesn't really help the Paladin though...
I will say, what could be interesting is a web range bonus on the Kronos (based on the fact that it's a stationary longer range gun boat). Then, perhaps a bonus to vamps on the Kronos. This would allow it to pull cap from other ships in order to keep itself up. |
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
342
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 19:50:32 -
[51] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The paladin is a great pvp ship. Set it on the field, push the button, and kill all incoming falconry. Tachs burn down falcons as fast as they land. The paladin isn't the high damage on the kb platform. They gave you a range bonus - use it. It was born to burn falcons and rooks off the field. Add a sensor booster and one of those passive targeters and burn them all!
If you're a falcon pilot, would you want to be on the field with a paladin? Heck no!
And why..........couldn't a vargur/golem do the same while being completely capacitor independant?
Because hurrrrrrrrdurrrrrrrrr.
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
154
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 20:23:33 -
[52] - Quote
based on read on this thread it boil down to this ASB is OP because it count Neut There is no good counter against Neut version for Armour ship. solution. give Krono/Paladin role bonus to reduce or remove cap cost on Ancillary Armour repairer? |

Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
319
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 21:08:53 -
[53] - Quote
unidenify wrote:based on read on this thread it boil down to this ASB is OP because it count Neut There is no good counter against Neut version for Armour ship. solution. give Krono/Paladin role bonus to reduce or remove cap cost on Ancillary Armour repairer? Cap boosters.
The problem with the Paladin is more tracking and damage application IMO. Lasers are the worst tracking weapons and then combine it with the fact that the Paladin is the only Marauder which gets not bonus to tracking.
Easy solution is to increase its drone bay or give it some tracking bonuses.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
342
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 21:09:34 -
[54] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
There is nothing wrong with ASB's. It's the only viable alternative against neuts atm besides passive shield tanking which the Marauders are terrible at.
Nothing wrong with the ASB, it is one of a solo / small gang pilots best friends. I must admit it can get a bit crazy on the Vargur and Golem, but again that is partly due to the massive cargo bay of those ships and so could easily be tweaked. Armour reps are a lot less cap dependant than shield reps. Combined with the fact that you would have a cap booster/s in the mids which are not as valuable as to an armour tanking ship, you can effectively perma run armour reps too until your cap boosters run out. Why do you think their is such a prevelance of dual or even triple rep armour ships... it is because it is one of the most powerful combinations for a solo / small gang pilot. Dual armour reps are much more common that dual ASBs. Out of all things I think ASBs and AARs are in a good position. That being said I don't see why we can't have multiple AARs on an armour ship. [I'd say the problem with the Paladin is that it needs to be better at tracking targets, when you are stationary it is too easy to signature tank battleship guns. If I were to suggest any change though I'd perhaps look at a drone bonus along with extra drone bay]
If AARs weren't limited to 1 per ship and didn't use any cap, they'd be balanced.
Armor reps are MORE cap dependent because there is no capless alternative like with shield. They also don't benefit from being able to fit multiple AARs or having pirate implants that boost the amount repped. There's also the issue of deadspace reps being much more expensive than deadspace shield boosters.
While midslots are at a premium on all ships, ASBs save you from even having to fit an injector in the first place.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
238
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 23:14:56 -
[55] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:unidenify wrote:based on read on this thread it boil down to this ASB is OP because it count Neut There is no good counter against Neut version for Armour ship. solution. give Krono/Paladin role bonus to reduce or remove cap cost on Ancillary Armour repairer? Cap boosters. The problem with the Paladin is more tracking and damage application IMO. Lasers are the worst tracking weapons and then combine it with the fact that the Paladin is the only Marauder which gets not bonus to tracking. Easy solution is to increase its drone bay or give it some tracking bonuses.
Mostly agree with you here Moac.
As Vimsy said earlier in this post, CCP should give the Paladins a built in 25% more cap capacity and recharge rate. And replace the 5% bonus to ship capacitor capacity Amarr BS skill with a 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed.
I'll feel bad for the NMs, but with costing 2.5x less than the Pallys they'll still have their uses.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
995
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 23:41:56 -
[56] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: Mostly agree with you here Moac.
As Vimsy said earlier in this post, CCP should give the Paladins a built in 25% more cap capacity and recharge rate. And replace the 5% bonus to ship capacitor capacity Amarr BS skill with a 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed.
I'll feel bad for the NMs, but with costing 2.5x less than the Pallys they'll still have their uses.
Nightmare Caldari Battleship bonuses (per skill level): 30% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus Amarr Battleship bonuses (per skill level): 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
The nightmare has damage, speed, tracking, and can shield tank. I'm sure it will be just fine. On top of that, you can be in a nightmare in 7 days as opposed to 115 days for the Pali.
Giving the Pali a tracking bonus will have no effect on the Nightmare, in a PVP context. As far as PVE, Marauders out tank and out range pirate hulls, while pirate hulls can out DPS and out speed. It's the same case for the NM vs Pali.
So, a tracking bonus for the Pali is suited well here. |

Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
278
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 03:12:39 -
[57] - Quote
I happen to like the optimal bonus on the Paladin. It allows me to use higher-damaging ammo at longer ranges with both beams and pulse. And tracking has never been an issue for me. But maybe that's because the Paladin IS a different Marauder and needs to be flown differently. When you do so, it is a stellar ship. It is my preferred Marauder.
If tracking is a problem for you, I'd say look at your setups and your flying/combat technique. If using beams against, say, Blood Raiders, a MJD + two tracking computers (optimal range) script is phenomenal. If using pulse against, say, everything else, MWD alone should get you to where you need. With pulse there's a lot of versatility because of the optimal range bonus. You can equip two tracking computers and switch scripts out for range or tracking, depending on what you're shooting at. Doing that, you get fantastic damage out to damned good range (56km with standard crystals, which is more than enough range and damage to whollop most missions). You can cap boost and targeting computer (sensor res script) to reduce the amount of time you hear that godawful beeping noise while locking.
I also fly a Kronos and it lacks, precisely because it lacks that optimal bonus. Yes I know it gets falloff, and I'll address that, but it's not the same.
Before I even go any further - just think about that for a second. The largest track of guns for sub-caps getting a tracking bonus does so very little because they start with so little tracking to begin with. If you were going to hit a target with the bonus, you'd probably hit it without the bonus anyway. This is opposed to optimal bonuses, which large track guns get a lot of to start with, and benefit greatly from bonuses to. And you still have the primary problem of getting things in range while mobility is a problem for your ship class (especially when, and this cannot be emphasized enough, your special ability is sitting still) - hence optimal being awesome and tracking not so much. Also, the irony here is that tracking bonus only really helps to negate the problem it itself creates by forcing you to fly around to chase down targets, increasing your traversal much of the time until you get a proper line-up on your target to negate traversal. And you know what benefits good flying and negating traversal...optimal bonus! So you can hit the guy out from further away if you're piloting well.
Anyway, I use a Kronos and have to fly it very differently. When flying blasters, you are already at a disadvantage because of their severely limited range. The falloff bonus is appreciated, don't get me wrong, but limited in usefulness for really extending the reach of your punch. Blasters have, what, around 2/3 of the effective range of pulse, and make up for the lack of application by trying to fling more overall DPS at the target? That's sloppy. It works, yes, but the impressive DPS you can get from hybrid weapons doesn't mean much without good application. So that tracking bonus really helps when you have to close the distance to about 3 or 4 KM to apply all that damage, but beyond that it really doesn't help.
MWD is a must with blasters because you have to chase things down and get them into range, which is both tiresome and time-consuming. Most of the time, it's quicker just to eqiup rails and MJD and nail them from afar and a tracking bonus does little to help you there anyway, wheras a Paladin in a similar situation is hitting targets with better ammo precisely because of the optimal bonus.
I like the Kronos, but I just find it is not as versatile as the Paladin. You can get better DPS with a Kronos, but only at knife-fight ranges where you lack the mobility (and mids!) to really keep targets there and make it work.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
240
|
Posted - 2015.11.19 10:47:27 -
[58] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:I happen to like the optimal bonus on the Paladin. It allows me to use higher-damaging ammo at longer ranges with both beams and pulse. And tracking has never been an issue for me. But maybe that's because the Paladin IS a different Marauder and needs to be flown differently. When you do so, it is a stellar ship. It is my preferred Marauder.
If tracking is a problem for you, I'd say look at your setups and your flying/combat technique. If using beams against, say, Blood Raiders, a MJD + two tracking computers (optimal range) script is phenomenal. If using pulse against, say, everything else, MWD alone should get you to where you need. With pulse there's a lot of versatility because of the optimal range bonus. You can equip two tracking computers and switch scripts out for range or tracking, depending on what you're shooting at. Doing that, you get fantastic damage out to damned good range (56km with standard crystals, which is more than enough range and damage to whollop most missions). You can cap boost and targeting computer (sensor res script) to reduce the amount of time you hear that godawful beeping noise while locking.
I also fly a Kronos and it lacks, precisely because it lacks that optimal bonus. Yes I know it gets falloff, and I'll address that, but it's not the same.
Before I even go any further - just think about that for a second. The largest track of guns for sub-caps getting a tracking bonus does so very little because they start with so little tracking to begin with. If you were going to hit a target with the bonus, you'd probably hit it without the bonus anyway. This is opposed to optimal, which large track guns get a lot of to start with, and benefit greatly from bonuses to. And you still have the primary problem of getting things in range while mobility is a problem for your ship class (especially when, and this cannot be emphasized enough, your special ability is sitting still) - hence optimal being awesome and tracking not so much. Also, the irony here is that tracking bonus only really helps to negate the problem it itself creates by forcing you to fly around to chase down targets, increasing your traversal much of the time until you get a proper line-up on your target to negate traversal. And you know what benefits good flying and negating traversal...optimal bonus! So you can hit the guy out from further away if you're piloting well.
Anyway, I use a Kronos and have to fly it very differently. When flying blasters, you are already at a disadvantage because of their severely limited range. The falloff bonus is appreciated, don't get me wrong, but limited in usefulness for really extending the reach of your punch. Blasters have, what, around 2/3 of the effective range of pulse, and make up for the lack of application by trying to fling more overall DPS at the target? That's sloppy. It works, yes, but the impressive DPS you can get from hybrid weapons doesn't mean much without good application. So that tracking bonus really helps when you have to close the distance to about 3 or 4 KM to apply all that damage, but beyond that it really doesn't help.
MWD is a must with blasters because you have to chase things down and get them into range, which is both tiresome and time-consuming. Most of the time, it's quicker just to eqiup rails and MJD and nail them from afar and a tracking bonus does little to help you there anyway, wheras a Paladin in a similar situation is hitting targets with better ammo precisely because of the optimal bonus.
I like the Kronos, but I just find it is not as versatile as the Paladin. You can get better DPS with a Kronos, but only at knife-fight ranges where you lack the mobility (and mids!) to really keep targets there and make it work.
I like the Paladins Optimal range bonus as well and I use them all the time running SOE lev 4 missions. But it is almost mandatory to bring a cruiser to hit the little things because if anything smaller than a cruiser gets within 30km of the Paladins, they won't be able to kill them. Whereas the NMs can with tracking speed scripts. The extra tracking you get on the NM using Pulse is definitely noticeable when trying to hit smaller targets within 30km and should be a skill incorporated into the Paladins. It just makes since for the Paladins to have a tracking speed skill in line with the other Marauders rather than being the odd one out and limiting the ship for PVE only. With Tachyons it probably won't make a lot of difference as it is a PVE design weapon that hits targets out at long ranges relying on optimal but for Pulse Paladins it'll make them a viable option as a PVP platform.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
281
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Posted - 2015.11.19 12:52:33 -
[59] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:I like the Paladins Optimal range bonus as well and I use them all the time running SOE lev 4 missions. But it is almost mandatory to bring a cruiser to hit the little things because if anything smaller than a cruiser gets within 30km of the Paladins, they won't be able to kill them. Whereas the NMs can with tracking speed scripts. The extra tracking you get on the NM using Pulse is definitely noticeable when trying to hit smaller targets within 30km and should be a skill incorporated into the Paladins. It just makes since for the Paladins to have a tracking speed skill in line with the other Marauders rather than being the odd one out and limiting the ship for PVE only. With Tachyons it probably won't make a lot of difference as it is a PVE design weapon that hits targets out at long ranges relying on optimal but for Pulse Paladins it'll make them a viable option as a PVP platform.
I don't use Marauders in PvP. I'll admit right now I don't have the sort of cohones or team support to try that. So, tracking bonus to help with PvP would be a good all-around benefit.
As for PvE, when I use Pulse Pally, I don't usually have trouble hitting small targets in close, but that might just be luck and/or the order in which I target things. Because pulse hits out pretty far, I generally hit small things out far, while the large things get in close. Then melt the larger things in close with IN Multi.
But I admit I don't run pulse Pally often, usually because MWD + Tachy seems like such a quick and easy way to do things. But perhaps next time you feel like it, try two tracking comps (tracking script) plus a web, perhaps? Or perhaps instead of web, a painter, since that'll be useful outside of 10km.
One thing I love about Marauders is that there's generous fitting and lots of options!
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
240
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Posted - 2015.11.19 13:44:11 -
[60] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:I like the Paladins Optimal range bonus as well and I use them all the time running SOE lev 4 missions. But it is almost mandatory to bring a cruiser to hit the little things because if anything smaller than a cruiser gets within 30km of the Paladins, they won't be able to kill them. Whereas the NMs can with tracking speed scripts. The extra tracking you get on the NM using Pulse is definitely noticeable when trying to hit smaller targets within 30km and should be a skill incorporated into the Paladins. It just makes since for the Paladins to have a tracking speed skill in line with the other Marauders rather than being the odd one out and limiting the ship for PVE only. With Tachyons it probably won't make a lot of difference as it is a PVE design weapon that hits targets out at long ranges relying on optimal but for Pulse Paladins it'll make them a viable option as a PVP platform.
I don't use Marauders in PvP. I'll admit right now I don't have the sort of cohones or team support to try that. So, tracking bonus to help with PvP would be a good all-around benefit. As for PvE, when I use Pulse Pally, I don't usually have trouble hitting small targets in close, but that might just be luck and/or the order in which I target things. Because pulse hits out pretty far, I generally hit small things out far, while the large things get in close. Then melt the larger things in close with IN Multi. But I admit I don't run pulse Pally often, usually because MWD + Tachy seems like such a quick and easy way to do things. But perhaps next time you feel like it, try two tracking comps (tracking script) plus a web, perhaps? Or perhaps instead of web, a painter, since that'll be useful outside of 10km. One thing I love about Marauders is that there's generous fitting and lots of options!
Is the MWD a better option than the MJD for a Tach Pally running Lev 4 missions or do you use both of them?
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