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Feature Idea: Turn off ship in space!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
roffelcaeks Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:51:00 - [1] So we can be found in our missions with probes, we can be seen on the scanner. Which means that its possible to lock down a system and find anyone inside it. But what about a new method of evasion? What if those probes cant find you becuase theres no power signature. In space there is tons of debree from past battles so a probe might look past a powered down ship. What if the scanner cannot see your comm signature... What if you could warp to a safe spot and simply turn your ship off. Stopping probes and any pursueing enemys to discover you and blow you to kingdom come. It would allow you to hide entire fleets, HOWEVER good things should not come without a price imo. Disabling your ship means turning off your warp drive. Perhaps this could have a recharge before turning back on.. 1-5mins maybe? This is just an idea I had a few moments ago, discuss/flame/tear apart as much as you like. :D --- A pessimist is merely a well informed optimist.
Jaggeh Salvage Team And Rig Suppliers	Posted - 2007.01.08 13:58:00 - [2] /signed --------------------------------------- Carpe Pugya Pyga - Seize the Buttocks
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:35:00 - [3] basicly you want to be able to do like what the US Navy calls Rig for Ultra Quiet. this could be interesting for people running from pirates too, warp to an SS and go silent. however everything should shut off, so when you bring the ship online your shields have to recharge and the capacitor has to recharge. engines(sublight and warp drive) should have a warm up time.
roBurky StateCorp	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:45:00 - [4] I'm not sure you could legitimately put your ship 'offline' unless it also required turning off all your modules. And it would take bloody ages to turn them all back on again without a carrier, as they each need 95% capacitor to do so. Which would be a pretty hefty drawback. ---
roffelcaeks Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:52:00 - [5] Edited by: roffelcaeks on 08/01/2007 14:50:01 Well obviously it would need an entirely new command. For example right click "Power Down" everything thats powered turns off, your cap, your shields. You cannot move nor can you activate any modules. EDIT: Nor can you target, or shoot. I would have thought Capacitor would restart at the same point it was at during the power down as cap is basically energy stored on batterys. But Shields should definately be down automatically. I definately think anyone caught "powered down" should have a disadvantage, but not so much advantage that to use it would be suicide. --- A pessimist is merely a well informed optimist.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.08 15:50:00 - [6] Originally by: roBurky I'm not sure you could legitimately put your ship 'offline' unless it also required turning off all your modules. And it would take bloody ages to turn them all back on again without a carrier, as they each need 95% capacitor to do so. Which would be a pretty hefty drawback. an idea for the ship restart could be it reboots the modules right off the reactor and then redirects power back to proper systems order. ships that are in silent running should also drop off the overview.
Hypo Psycho Minmatar Universal Army	Posted - 2007.01.08 17:27:00 - [7] /signed i like the idea, the same effect can be created now via a cloak, but why waste a hislot? as for the shield recharging this is gonna annoy all caldari pilots but do it anyway they need a good nerfing and anything that they dont like is okay by me. "see you on the other side"
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.08 17:58:00 - [8] Originally by: roBurky I'm not sure you could legitimately put your ship 'offline' unless it also required turning off all your modules. And it would take bloody ages to turn them all back on again without a carrier, as they each need 95% capacitor to do so. Which would be a pretty hefty drawback. I personally would prefer that if you turned off your ship, all of the modules should go offline too. There needs to be serious drawback to being invisible to probes. This should be on top of draining all of your cap and shields.
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:07:00 - [9] The idea sounds very cool imho. And yes, the drawback that you need time to turn them on is a good idea also. Other suggestions in here like turn all the modules off etc would render this option too bad imo. But the 5 minutes delay for the turn on sounds good.. Maybe some testing would show us which timer is best in real situation to not be too much advantage for the person turning off neither to the person that is probing. ---
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.08 19:23:00 - [10] I like it Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
XoPhyte Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.08 20:36:00 - [11] It's a cool idea in theory, but of course all you are really trying to get around is buying a 50 mil cloak! Turning off a ship, even with a 5 minute "recharge" time to turn it back on has no counter for enemies looking for you. Eve is a game of balance, everything has a counter. This doesn't and therefore I don't think it is a good idea. --- Siggy Starts Here--- Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Most people in eve would rather win than have a good fight
roffelcaeks Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.09 08:30:00 - [12] Originally by: XoPhyte It's a cool idea in theory, but of course all you are really trying to get around is buying a 50 mil cloak! Turning off a ship, even with a 5 minute "recharge" time to turn it back on has no counter for enemies looking for you. Eve is a game of balance, everything has a counter. This doesn't and therefore I don't think it is a good idea. Difference between this and a cloak is that with a cloak you can move around. The moment you turn your ship back on you can be found plus you also have to wait to warp. --- A pessimist is merely a well informed optimist.
Haizum Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.05 19:00:00 - [13] I think a suitable counter to this idea may perhaps be a certain type of probe that is detailed enough to sort through that "interstellar debris" but in doing so, has a long scan time - for example, the same amount of time (or slightly more, depending on balance) that it takes to recharge a ship's warp drive? Of course if people have a cloak then this makes it all the better instead of "powering down", so a way to counter cloakers would also have to be included as a matter of balance, if this idea is to be duly balanced. Also a side note, if they power down, their local chat disappears? Give an added risk for fleets and such, they can be powered down out in the big black, but don't know what kind of force is there waiting? Shadows of the Dead Recruitment
CocoaJin	Posted - 2007.02.06 00:23:00 - [14] turning off your ship doesnt protect your ship from be detected by its gravitational ripple its mass creates(gravimetric), or its magnetic sig due to its construction material or interaction within a field of charged particles whipping past it as solar radiation(magnetometric) or the ability to bounce electromagnetic waves off such a massive object(radar) or the ability to detect by use of laser detection(ladar) Turning off your ship would prevent active signals from emmitting from your ship, so maybe it should take you off local. But you should get no sensory info either, and all comms should be off, or recieve only and any transmission should allow for dection of your ship and plascement on local for a period of time.
Nicna Nova	Posted - 2007.02.06 01:36:00 - [15] Well if you ship was turned off it could still be seen manually. Sooo some not so flashy ship would have the advantage...So you could add a costum paint option : D so hiding next to a planet the same color as you would make you almost invisable. If you did power your zhip off completely then you would have no zafty zyztem for your pod zo when your zhip goez boooommm you do too. So it would have some very large drawback. It might work but maybe with your zhip off you could be vunerable to local affects such as ramming and such so if zome bigger hit you.you hull takes a beating seeing as they have shields on and you don't
CocoaJin	Posted - 2007.02.06 01:49:00 - [16] not to mention there are no targeting or fire control thats visually dependent, so not being able to see the ship doesnt keep it from being on your scanner to lock and fire on. the drawbacks certainly are large.
Clansworth Good Rock Materials	Posted - 2007.02.06 02:18:00 - [17] I would support this given a couple thngs: 1. The ship does not disappear, but DOES get a massive redultion in Sig Radius. This way there is still SOME chance of being found by probes/scanning. 2. Modules do get put offline, but perhaps in a way that allows them to be restarted slightly quicker.. Maybe they go into a Hot Standby mode, which requires maybe 30% cap or something a little more realistic than 95%. Or, better yet, change modules onlineing/offlining to be a set energy amount instead of a %. Seems silly that if I put on a bunch of big Cap mods, and have a much larger capaciter, that it now requires a LOT more energy to turn on my modules. This would allow someone to possibly load up a cap booster, and online that first, to help get the systems back up in a hurry. Still would end up being a logistical nightmare, and still fairly balanced i think. [IDEA] New Ship Class: Heavy Lifter
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.06 10:05:00 - [18] Edited by: Imhothar Xarodit on 06/02/2007 10:04:22 This really is an interesting idea... But you will never want to turn off your ship completely. Just think about your live sustaining systems :) So if any probe is searching for "emmiting energy signatures" or whatever, it still could find your ship's crucial systems which simply have to be online in order to keep your ship in one piece, making sure you won't freeze or burn in your pod etc etc, you get the point. A drastic decrease of your ship's signature radius (~90%) seems to be the best option, both logically as well as for balance. You still can be probed, you still can be targeted and shot at. The drawbacks could be 1. You cannot do anything, no moving, no warping, no targeting, nothing 2. Your overview is plain empty (you don't emit sensor signals) 3. Your shields drop to 0% 4. Capacitor should remain where it is, because as stated earlier, it is energy stored in batteries. But the nature of capacitors is, they discharge without a supply of energy. So find a nice formula for a cap/sec discharge raste when the power is offline 5. when hitting the switch, your ship reroutes all power to modules first, so the starting power is used to bypass the 95% cap need to online a module. They still cannot be used until the startup process has finished due to unstable power conditions! 6. Your engines and warp drive are the next systems that begin to recharge, increasing your max velocity from 0 to the default slowly. Warping is not possible untill the startup process has finished. 7. After the engines are at 100% again, the startup process has completed. Your ship enters "normal" mode and shields/capacitor begin to recharge. The important part here is to find a suitable delay for this process.
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.06 10:33:00 - [19] The idea in theory is a good one, however from my understanding the way the scanner and probes work is that they are like Radar.. The scanner sends out a pulse, a wave hits off your ship, the signal is deflected off it and is received by the ship that sent it out (thus how it works out range etc). The problem with what your suggesting would require CCP to rewrite the way the scanner and probes work. -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.06 10:47:00 - [20] Edited by: Imhothar Xarodit on 06/02/2007 10:44:11 Originally by: MrTriggerHappy The idea in theory is a good one, however from my understanding the way the scanner and probes work is that they are like Radar.. The scanner sends out a pulse, a wave hits off your ship, the signal is deflected off it and is received by the ship that sent it out (thus how it works out range etc). The problem with what your suggesting would require CCP to rewrite the way the scanner and probes work. There is a difference between reality and simulated physics. Your ship doesn't emit signal waves and waits till they bounce of an object ;) This is how yout explain the scanner and sensors on a RP basis, but it has nothing to do with how the system is coded. They simply compare your scanner strength to the other guy's signature radius, do some math and tell you if there is something or not. Anything else would be waaaay to complicated... A reduction of signature radius doesn't require any recoding of the basic scanner functionality.
Hypatia Iola	Posted - 2007.02.06 11:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Hypatia Iola on 06/02/2007 11:30:16 Edited by: Hypatia Iola on 06/02/2007 11:28:53 i actually like this, with the sig drop thing. maybe a 65% drop initially, then(possibly) a white noise(or whatever for each scanner type) passive mod that doesn't use powergrid or CPU, but makes sig drop go up 15% + 3%/level in the needed skills for a max of 95% at max training? i dunno, that way you can always do it, but to maximise your chances of succes you need training? edit fixed math lol
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.06 11:53:00 - [22] Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 06/02/2007 11:54:32 Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit Edited by: Imhothar Xarodit on 06/02/2007 10:44:11 Originally by: MrTriggerHappy The idea in theory is a good one, however from my understanding the way the scanner and probes work is that they are like Radar.. The scanner sends out a pulse, a wave hits off your ship, the signal is deflected off it and is received by the ship that sent it out (thus how it works out range etc). The problem with what your suggesting would require CCP to rewrite the way the scanner and probes work. There is a difference between reality and simulated physics. Your ship doesn't emit signal waves and waits till they bounce of an object ;) This is how yout explain the scanner and sensors on a RP basis, but it has nothing to do with how the system is coded. They simply compare your scanner strength to the other guy's signature radius, do some math and tell you if there is something or not. Anything else would be waaaay to complicated... A reduction of signature radius doesn't require any recoding of the basic scanner functionality. There's actually quite a few things in eve based on REAL physics. The scanner for one is based on the principals of Radar, your right they dont emit signals that neither you or I can see, but a scanner has to retreive information somehow, if you have a better explanation of how the scanner works.. i'd like to hear it. Sig radius has nothing to do with the scanner or scan probes, its more to do with how big the ship is. Eg: Ship X is a carrier, big sid radius and thus smaller ships can lock it faster. Doesnt matter how big a ship is to a scanner or scan probes, they'll see it if you happen to search for that paticular ship class (as long as its in range). Edit: To get the scanner or scan probes to search for ships with energy signatures (which i actually support, it would change scanner traffic with ships parked at pos's). You would need to change the fact that active ships have energy signatures unless the pilot powers down or ejects. Empty ships have no signatures. Actually a more pheasible idea would be to say the scanner can pick up anything (unless cloaked(You cant locate anything effectively with the scanner)). Scan probes on the other hand can only pick up active energy signatures (like base this on Sci-fi) by looking for Power signatures, to which you can turn off etc etc -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Chi Prime Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.06 12:25:00 - [23] Personally I'd like to see a high-slot capital ship module that can do this as an area effect, so you can make a safe rendezvous spot for the entire gang while preparing the assault/defense. - Ares, Raptor and Malediction needs fixing
Bal' Hed Caldari Brotherhood of Wolves Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.06 13:15:00 - [24] I'm in. Originally by: MrTripps How about Forum Drones? After you get popped they automatically log onto the forums and write a post demanding a nerf to whatever popped you.
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.06 13:26:00 - [25] Edited by: Imhothar Xarodit on 06/02/2007 13:22:43 @MrTriggerHappy Originally by: "TomB" Just finding objects will be based on the probe type you are using. Its stats will 'battle' against the stats of the objects within its scan radius, if the probe wins it finds the object and gives you the estimated location of the findings. The factors used on the objects for this mini-battle are signature radius (big is bad) and scan strength (high is good), where frigates are commonly harder to find than battleships/ capital ships, while recon based ships are in general the hardest ships to find. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430608
VIctoria Ballentyne Minmatar Pale Riders Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.06 13:32:00 - [26] Edited by: VIctoria Ballentyne on 06/02/2007 13:28:40 Nah, all this needs is a T3 Interdictor with a Sensor Blocker sphere of varying size... then the fleets can hide in teh sphere.. though they can be seen visually, if not on scanner. "Forbid a man to think for himself or to act for himself and you may add the joy of piracy and the zest of smuggling to his life"
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.06 13:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit Originally by: "TomB" Just finding objects will be based on the probe type you are using. Its stats will 'battle' against the stats of the objects within its scan radius, if the probe wins it finds the object and gives you the estimated location of the findings. The factors used on the objects for this mini-battle are signature radius (big is bad) and scan strength (high is good, where frigates are commonly harder to find than battleships/ capital ships, while recon based ships are in general the hardest ships to find. Taken from http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430608 How the scanner works is... really simple. The server knows who is located where in the system. If you hit your "scan" button the server goes through its list of objects present in the system, compares distance, sig radius, signal strength, does some probability math whatsoever and then returns a list of objects your scanner seemed to have "found". Its no mystery, just search algorithms ;) Thats for probes not the scanner, i hope you do understand that I am referring to the directional scanner, not the scanner thats used in conjunction with probes, and on that page you only get what you can and cant do with it. -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.02.06 15:04:00 - [28] Perhaps probability to be probed should be attenuated with powergrid use in a way...
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.06 15:35:00 - [29] Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Thats for probes not the scanner, i hope you do understand that I am referring to the directional scanner, not the scanner thats used in conjunction with probes, and on that page you only get what you can and cant do with it. The directional scanner is even easier, cause if there is a ship in range (uncloaked) you WILL have it on your scanner. There is no reason for physical computations and I assume there aren't any. If there is an uncloaked ship in range, it gets on your scanner list. Basically the same search like for prbes except the sig radius/scanner strength computation is taken out. Remember, it is a simulation of a scanner. In reality, the server has a list of objects in the system with current positions. Your directional "scanner" simply checks this list and compares distance/position relative to your position/direction and determines if it comes on your scanner list or not. I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but in this case, there's no physics involved. This is my opinion how it probably works, from a developr's point of view. Or did it ever happen to you that a shuttle was hidden from your directional scanner? I think not ;) Considering how much peopel are using the scanner for such a simple task, it would be a waste of resources to do it using real physical signal-wave/distortion/amplitude/frequency computations, this is much more important on other aspects of the game (shooting, missiles, moving etc) :D
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.06 16:17:00 - [30] Sorry to dissapoint but there's always some aspects of physics in eve, yes it may be a simple matter of a the scanner checking off a calculated list with the client, but then we're not talking about the developers view were talking about player view. To get a ship to show up on scanner you have to type in the range you can find in km. But to know what probe to use you need to convert that into ASTROMETRIC UNITS!!! Using PHYSICS (or a simple converter online(But i prefer to work things out)). So lets look at this properly.. if you want to scan something out at 3 AU? You would need to know what that is in km! So lets look at this rationally, 1 Astrometric unit is equal to 149,598,000km, so multiply that by 3 and you get 448,794,000km. Please by all means dont class me as an idiot, I know how to do programming and I know physics. My original statement was comparing that to the directional scanner to that of RL radar, its similar, but not totally. In essence I also said not to change the directional scanner. -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance

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