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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.10 10:45:00 -
[91]
Edited by: DarkElf on 10/01/2007 10:42:20
 Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: DarkElf
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Vathar
A tempest running out of cap will do fine against a blasterthron ... if said B-thron is also cap dead :)
Neuts work better on minnie ships than Nos ...
how does a tempest run out of cap before a b-thron?
a) i've never heard of a tempest with unlimited cap charges. have you?
b) if it doesn't run outta cap then it's irrelevant
c) in that case how long does a tempest last against a domi with ogre II's when it's run outta cap. again the answer is not long so doesn't make much differencce in 90% of engagements
DE
HOW DO I BASH THIS THROUGH YOUR TINY THICK SKULL.
A TEMPEST CANNOT RUN OUT OF CAP BEFORE A BLASTERTHRON, BECAUSE THE BLASTERTHRON USES MORE CAP PER SECOND THAN THE TEMPEST AND THEY HAVE SIMILAR CAPACITOR SIZES.
a) if you want to insult someone then come do it in person in game or out i don't mind which you little kid.
b) the mega pilot does a lot more dps than the tempest so the pest will be repping at a much faster rate so will actually use more cap. also ur not talking about setup differences. the mega might have 2 nos and maybe pest 1. there's many different fadctors involved it's not just something that is the same every time.
the fact that ur saying a pest will never run out of cap to a mega is surprising but if u had read my post then u'd know that was my whole point. pests very rarely run out of cap.
next time u reply show a little respect and stop ur stupid insults on the forums or i'll simply get them removed.
DE
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Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.10 10:56:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Ath Amon
hype: 1150dps
abaddon: 930dps
maelstrom: 830dps
Those numbers are a bit off:
Hyperion (Neutron Blaster Cannon T2 [Void] (3 Dm) 1084 (19 cap/sec)
Abaddon (Megapulse T2 [Conflagration] (3 Dm) 929 (42 cap/sec(armageddon uses 24cap/sec))
Maelstrom (800Mm Ac T2 [Hail] (3 Dm) 890 (0 cap/sec)
But this doesn't account for the fact that a hyperion/abaddon will probably never use more than 2 damage mods, but that's kinda irrelevant as this thread was originally comparing weapons.
Just to make this clearer blasters outdamage autocannons by roughly 20% but have slightly less range and lots of cap usage. Lasers outdamage autocannons by 5% and use massive amounts of cap, but they have vastly superior range.
I'd say it looks good on paper but cap consumption is currently much more important than dps with NOS around every corner. Lasers and hybrid could use a slight reduction in cap consumption... and nos needs a fix.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.10 11:10:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Ath Amon
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/01/2007 10:21:08
@Bellum Eternus
maybe instead you should look at a previous post i made where i spoke about cap used to tank in comparsion to cap used for offence...
basically the concept is...
blasters: use cap to deal damage but require more cap to tank their damage
ACs: use no cap to deal damage but require less cap to tank their damage
you use more cap... the opponent need more cap to survive (if he can)
**PRECISELY**
Where you're going wrong in your assumptions is that a) you think that the blaster DPS isn't tankable, which it is, and b) that a tank able to do so uses too much cap to be sustainable for the time it takes to kill the offending blastership.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.10 11:26:00 -
[94]
Originally by: DarkElf
a) if you want to insult someone then come do it in person in game or out i don't mind which you little kid.
b) the mega pilot does a lot more dps than the tempest so the pest will be repping at a much faster rate so will actually use more cap. also ur not talking about setup differences. the mega might have 2 nos and maybe pest 1. there's many different fadctors involved it's not just something that is the same every time.
the fact that ur saying a pest will never run out of cap to a mega is surprising but if u had read my post then u'd know that was my whole point. pests very rarely run out of cap.
next time u reply show a little respect and stop ur stupid insults on the forums or i'll simply get them removed.
DE
1) The Megathron will kill the tempest long before the tempest runs out of cap from repping. You cant tank that type of damage without a dedicated tank setup[a ridiculous tank setup]. You cant tank the damage a Tempest puts out without a dedicated tank setup either.
2) The only setups worth talking about are similar setups, yea the megathron might be running highs full of NOS, but such a setup is stupid when comparing the cap use of blasters versus autocannons.
3) The tempest has more "free slots" for NOS than a Megathron does.
4) The question is comparing the cap use of the autocannons vs blasters so the question of running out of cap is intimatly important to the discussion.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.10 11:45:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: DarkElf
I think it's balanced ok. besides, you ask how many minnie pilots have won i battle after they have run out of cap because their guns kept firing and i'd say it's a rare occasion. you see how long a tempest with no cap lasts against a b'thron.
also as said before gallente get drones which altho can be popped they are essentially dmg without cap.
i think amarr are the weak link here as usual. they get the crappy high cap usage and not much to balance that. but heh that's why i cross trained to gallente 
DE
How does a tempest run out of cap against a Blaster Thron?
i heard that modules like armor repair, webber, scrambler, hardeners and damage control need cap, and even with 2 nos u run out of cap, but thats mostly a mistake of cap booster mismanagment
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.10 11:45:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: DarkElf
I think it's balanced ok. besides, you ask how many minnie pilots have won i battle after they have run out of cap because their guns kept firing and i'd say it's a rare occasion. you see how long a tempest with no cap lasts against a b'thron.
also as said before gallente get drones which altho can be popped they are essentially dmg without cap.
i think amarr are the weak link here as usual. they get the crappy high cap usage and not much to balance that. but heh that's why i cross trained to gallente
DE
How does a tempest run out of cap against a Blaster Thron?
i heard that modules like armor repair, webber, scrambler, hardeners and damage control need cap, and even with 2 nos u run out of cap, but thats mostly a mistake of cap booster mismanagment
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.01.10 11:49:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/01/2007 11:48:00
@Dixon
the numbers where from a kali NB's spreadsheet so it should be quite accurate, if yours are from a recent version of NB spreadsheet too let me know that i will update mine
the real problem here is not the cap consumption but the nos effectiveness (expecially in 1vs1 or small gang enviroment) in this situation yes ships that use no cap to fire can have some advantage, but also consider that in mid to large size gang a higher dps is imo way more effective.
also totally agree about noses, i think too that they are too much effective and there should be something to prevent the "nos armament race"
for the dps difference and cap used to tank...
to tank a t2 gank hype or mega maybe is possible but you need faction stuff or implants, not to say tons of cap... also i think the dps difference is a bit underestimated...
if in my 1.1k dps gankphoon i face a tank able to sustain 1k dps (so a good one) i will do a real dps of 100
in comparsion an hype with 1.2k dps will do a real dps of 200 and so will be able to kill it in half the time!
the difference in raw dps is just less than 10% but factoring opponent defences the real dps if of 100%...
no really complains here, just to show how what can seem a marginal difference is in truth a big one
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.01.10 11:49:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/01/2007 11:48:00
@Dixon
the numbers where from a kali NB's spreadsheet so it should be quite accurate, if yours are from a recent version of NB spreadsheet too let me know that i will update mine
the real problem here is not the cap consumption but the nos effectiveness (expecially in 1vs1 or small gang enviroment) in this situation yes ships that use no cap to fire can have some advantage, but also consider that in mid to large size gang a higher dps is imo way more effective.
also totally agree about noses, i think too that they are too much effective and there should be something to prevent the "nos armament race"
for the dps difference and cap used to tank...
to tank a t2 gank hype or mega maybe is possible but you need faction stuff or implants, not to say tons of cap... also i think the dps difference is a bit underestimated...
if in my 1.1k dps gankphoon i face a tank able to sustain 1k dps (so a good one) i will do a real dps of 100
in comparsion an hype with 1.2k dps will do a real dps of 200 and so will be able to kill it in half the time!
the difference in raw dps is just less than 10% but factoring opponent defences the real dps if of 100%...
no really complains here, just to show how what can seem a marginal difference is in truth a big one
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.10 11:59:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Ath Amon
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/01/2007 11:48:00
@Dixon
the numbers where from a kali NB's spreadsheet so it should be quite accurate, if yours are from a recent version of NB spreadsheet too let me know that i will update mine
They are, you should probably update.
Originally by: Ath Amon
if in my 1.1k dps gankphoon i face a tank able to sustain 1k dps (so a good one) i will do a real dps of 100
Yes but the low-dps weapons (missiles and projectiles) still have the advantage of choosing their damage types (even if projectiles have a more limited choice), this can result in a lot higher dps versus most tanks.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.10 12:05:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Goumindong
1) The Megathron will kill the tempest long before the tempest runs out of cap from repping. You cant tank that type of damage without a dedicated tank setup[a ridiculous tank setup]. You cant tank the damage a Tempest puts out without a dedicated tank setup either.
2) The only setups worth talking about are similar setups, yea the megathron might be running highs full of NOS, but such a setup is stupid when comparing the cap use of blasters versus autocannons.
3) The tempest has more "free slots" for NOS than a Megathron does.
4) The question is comparing the cap use of the autocannons vs blasters so the question of running out of cap is intimatly important to the discussion.
Your absolutely right it's very unlikely that situation will happen unless the pest is dumb and not injected.
Which is exactly my point btw. the pests weapons not using cap isn't that much of a big deal compared to gallente as most minnie ships will not run out of cap unless they are gonna die anyway and for the extra dps that blasters have ove ac's i think this is balanced.
one area that the cap usage issue really comes into play is with ceptors and af's. nos is a frig killer but a wolf for example can still be very effective with 0 cap where as amarr or gallente's are pretty much dead in the water after a heavy nos or 2 is on them.
i think everyone here is coming to the same conclusion. gallente/minnie is balanced ok to for cap/dmg, caldari is mmm well caldari and amarr suck 
DE
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Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 12:14:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Ryysa on 10/01/2007 12:13:09
simple fix... unnerf dmg mod stacking :P
Gank setups will have a use again, and gallente + amarr will be best at it :P
On a more realistic note, I seriously don't understand gallente whineage atm.
So tempest has a chance vs bthron now, wow, that's imba... ofcourse...
Anyhow, the simple thing is, my alt in a domi with maxed out skills can beat any current battleship 1v1.
You get 80% resist across the board, nos, decent dps from the drones, etc...
Why do gallente always complain about everything? You of all races, who have the most uber weapon at your disposal, which not only does not use cap, but which doesn't even need to be fitted in your highslots...
The reason megathron is screwed the way it is, is that megathron depended on gank. Ion II's are still gank. You should not blame Minmatar capless guns on the demise of the megathron/deimos/thorax, but the double HP buffs from RMR and Kali.
The races are fairly balanced, the cap usage would be fine, if gallente and ESPECIALLY amarr would be allowed to do more damage.
In my opinion, Laser DPS should get about 20% boost, so amarr become the best gank/tankers again.
Gallente have currently the best 1v1 BS (domi), very good recons, one very good HAC, awesome commandships (HI EOS?), and a nice tier3 battleship.
Yet there is still *****ing that your megathron doesn't pwn all.
Imo the only people who should be *****ing at the current situation are Amarr. Omnitanks and damage mod stacking totally owned them.
And caldari... well... i am part caldari, let's just say the ecm/wcs nerf demoted them to pve race :P
All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide |
Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.01.10 12:19:00 -
[102]
Just checked the numbers so I wouldn't be talking out my butt:
dmg mod / rof / activation cost
800mm Rep. Art. 2.59 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
3.5 / 2.59 = 1.35
So a neutron blaster does 35% more dps than an 800mm repeating artillary. It's quite a substancial increase. If you prioritize dps like I do, you'd use neutrons every time.
It sucks to lose because you god nos'd (and it will happen often if you're using t1 ammo). It's possible to tank all dps even from t2 ammo, it's just rare to run into a tank that strong. (Like farjung's vindicator setup could tank around 1000 dps iirc).
-Bart
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.10 12:24:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Sir Bart
Just checked the numbers so I wouldn't be talking out my butt:
dmg mod / rof / activation cost
800mm Rep. Art. 2.59 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
3.5 / 2.59 = 1.35
So a neutron blaster does 35% more dps than an 800mm repeating artillary. It's quite a substancial increase. If you prioritize dps like I do, you'd use neutrons every time.
It sucks to lose because you god nos'd (and it will happen often if you're using t1 ammo). It's possible to tank all dps even from t2 ammo, it's just rare to run into a tank that strong. (Like farjung's vindicator setup could tank around 1000 dps iirc).
-Bart
now see if that 35% or so is enough to run the target's cap dry before you yourself run out of cap and tank. Fast forward: it won't.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. |
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
|
Posted - 2007.01.10 12:31:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Sir Bart
Just checked the numbers so I wouldn't be talking out my butt:
dmg mod / rof / activation cost
800mm Rep. Art. 2.59 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
3.5 / 2.59 = 1.35
So a neutron blaster does 35% more dps than an 800mm repeating artillary. It's quite a substancial increase. If you prioritize dps like I do, you'd use neutrons every time.
It sucks to lose because you god nos'd (and it will happen often if you're using t1 ammo). It's possible to tank all dps even from t2 ammo, it's just rare to run into a tank that strong. (Like farjung's vindicator setup could tank around 1000 dps iirc).
-Bart
Those numbers are a bit off:
800mm Rep. Art. 2.695 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
and you have to account for the bonuses, 25% damage is not the same dps increase as 25% RoF. But the difference is still about 20% in favor of blasters.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.10 12:34:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: DarkElf
I think it's balanced ok. besides, you ask how many minnie pilots have won i battle after they have run out of cap because their guns kept firing and i'd say it's a rare occasion. you see how long a tempest with no cap lasts against a b'thron.
also as said before gallente get drones which altho can be popped they are essentially dmg without cap.
i think amarr are the weak link here as usual. they get the crappy high cap usage and not much to balance that. but heh that's why i cross trained to gallente
DE
How does a tempest run out of cap against a Blaster Thron?
i heard that modules like armor repair, webber, scrambler, hardeners and damage control need cap, and even with 2 nos u run out of cap, but thats mostly a mistake of cap booster mismanagment
I heard that you dont need to run your armor repairer if your opponent isnt shooting at you, and a blasterthron is going to run out of cap before you[because he has to run all that stuff and 18 cap/second worth of guns], ergo a tempest cannot run out of cap against a blasterthron because it doesnt need to run its repper[the only thing that will kill your cap] once the thron is out.
Originally by: DarkElf
Your absolutely right it's very unlikely that situation will happen unless the pest is dumb and not injected.
Which is exactly my point btw. the pests weapons not using cap isn't that much of a big deal compared to gallente as most minnie ships will not run out of cap unless they are gonna die anyway and for the extra dps that blasters have ove ac's i think this is balanced.
one area that the cap usage issue really comes into play is with ceptors and af's. nos is a frig killer but a wolf for example can still be very effective with 0 cap where as amarr or gallente's are pretty much dead in the water after a heavy nos or 2 is on them.
i think everyone here is coming to the same conclusion. gallente/minnie is balanced ok to for cap/dmg, caldari is mmm well caldari and amarr suck
DE
Ugg. As mentioned earlier, the "omg run out against a thron" is stupid.
The issue is how they perform against ships that use capacitor warfare.
If a nos-domi attacks you, the thron is dead in the water, the tempest can shoot back, forcing the domi to at least tank the damage.
It also ignores the effects of neuts[for the tempest, whose cap doesnt matter, its more beneficial to just kill his opponents cap and then out-dps him.]
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.01.10 12:47:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Ath Amon
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/01/2007 11:48:00
@Dixon
the numbers where from a kali NB's spreadsheet so it should be quite accurate, if yours are from a recent version of NB spreadsheet too let me know that i will update mine
They are, you should probably update.
thanks :) i will update asap
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Ath Amon
if in my 1.1k dps gankphoon i face a tank able to sustain 1k dps (so a good one) i will do a real dps of 100
Yes but the low-dps weapons (missiles and projectiles) still have the advantage of choosing their damage types (even if projectiles have a more limited choice), this can result in a lot higher dps versus most tanks.
yes, proj can chose their damage, but is something you can really do only in pve or while pirating, where you can expect to find opponents with certain res...
in pvp (for ACs) personally i go with highest damage ammo and stick with it... the reload timer is too high to try things and the dps difference between a hail and phased plasma is alredy so high to potentially vanify the benefits to hit a less tanked res.
also you really don't know what tank you will face, expecially speaking about BS.
for arty there is not even the choice... explo/kin are "fixed" as therm/kin for rails.
missiles are a bit more versatile as they have the same base damage regarless of res they hit and i admit that sometimes i switch them even during combat... but here we where mostly speaking about proj :P
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.01.15 18:59:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Sir Bart
dmg mod / rof / activation cost
800mm Rep. Art. 2.59 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
3.5 / 2.59 = 1.35
Those numbers are a bit off:
800mm Rep. Art. 2.695 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
and you have to account for the bonuses, 25% damage is not the same dps increase as 25% RoF. But the difference is still about 20% in favor of blasters.
Just double checked my numbers and you're correct on the values; however, you don't take bonuses into account, we're comparing guns, not ships.
Correct difference is 29.8%
-Bart
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.01.15 19:03:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Sir Bart
Just checked the numbers so I wouldn't be talking out my butt:
dmg mod / rof / activation cost
800mm Rep. Art. 2.59 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
3.5 / 2.59 = 1.35
So a neutron blaster does 35% more dps than an 800mm repeating artillary. It's quite a substancial increase. If you prioritize dps like I do, you'd use neutrons every time.
It sucks to lose because you god nos'd (and it will happen often if you're using t1 ammo). It's possible to tank all dps even from t2 ammo, it's just rare to run into a tank that strong. (Like farjung's vindicator setup could tank around 1000 dps iirc).
-Bart
now see if that 35% or so is enough to run the target's cap dry before you yourself run out of cap and tank. Fast forward: it won't.
If you're talking about a ship vs ship fight, there's a lot more factors involved than what guns you use, although I can tell you, my megathron has beat a lot of tempests, domi's and ravens, and tbh, it's not even close, I roast them. (I've ran into a raven before that could beat me but he had no scram so not a very fair comparison).
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Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.15 19:18:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Sir Bart
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Sir Bart
dmg mod / rof / activation cost
800mm Rep. Art. 2.59 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
3.5 / 2.59 = 1.35
Those numbers are a bit off:
800mm Rep. Art. 2.695 / 7.88 / 0
Neutron Bls Cann. 3.5 / 7.88 / 18.2
and you have to account for the bonuses, 25% damage is not the same dps increase as 25% RoF. But the difference is still about 20% in favor of blasters.
Just double checked my numbers and you're correct on the values; however, you don't take bonuses into account, we're comparing guns, not ships.
Correct difference is 29.8%
-Bart
Comparing the guns without using the bonuses isn't a fair comparison. Every single minmatar ship receives that RoF bonus and all gallente blasterships get that damage bonus, to compare without the bonuses is like comparing laser cap usage before the 10% per level reduction.
__________________________________________________
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
So here is the state of Amarr tech. Nos, plate, EANM and a tracking disruptor - pick two out of four and counter all setups.
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2007.01.15 20:55:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Shan''Talasha Mea''Questa on 15/01/2007 20:52:12
Originally by: dalman
Edited by: dalman on 08/01/2007 20:36:37
Originally by: Marcathonas
Except... they do. All gallente ships have more cap than the minmatar of the same class, IIRC.
Stop spewing this crap.
I read this p.o.s. argument on these boards like every ****ing day for 3 years+ now.
megathron: 4500
tempest: 4250
dominix: 4000
typhoon: 4000
Cap has been increased on all ships, but I'd rather look at the realistic figures and compare both Cap Size and Cap Recharge rate.
Unmodified & and not counting "peak recharge":
Megathron: 5625/1154.88 Sec. -> 4.871 cap/sec
Tempest: 5312/1154.88 Sec. -> 4.600 cap/sec
Dominix: 5000/1087.50 Sec. -> 4.598 cap/sec
Typhoon: 5000/1087.50 Sec. -> 4.598 cap/sec
Best way to deal with this seems to be lowering cap-usage on Hybrids. Capacitors seem pretty balanced already.
Edit: Spelling.
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Technolisa
Amarr
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.15 21:04:00 -
[111]
so much whine and no cheese at all ! 
Gentelmen we are going to get
some shooty shooty tonight. (c) Evil Thug |
Imperil
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.15 21:49:00 -
[112]
Of course Neutrons has better DPS then 800mm, but 800mm can shoot further out then Neutrons, and as such the DPS advantage the Neutron has is not that big.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Imperil
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.15 21:52:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Edited by: Shan''Talasha Mea''Questa on 15/01/2007 20:52:12
Originally by: dalman
Edited by: dalman on 08/01/2007 20:36:37
Originally by: Marcathonas
Except... they do. All gallente ships have more cap than the minmatar of the same class, IIRC.
Stop spewing this crap.
I read this p.o.s. argument on these boards like every ****ing day for 3 years+ now.
megathron: 4500
tempest: 4250
dominix: 4000
typhoon: 4000
Cap has been increased on all ships, but I'd rather look at the realistic figures and compare both Cap Size and Cap Recharge rate.
Unmodified & and not counting "peak recharge":
Megathron: 5625/1154.88 Sec. -> 4.871 cap/sec
Tempest: 5312/1154.88 Sec. -> 4.600 cap/sec
Dominix: 5000/1087.50 Sec. -> 4.598 cap/sec
Typhoon: 5000/1087.50 Sec. -> 4.598 cap/sec
Best way to deal with this seems to be lowering cap-usage on Hybrids. Capacitors seem pretty balanced already.
Edit: Spelling.
No it is not balanced. Do not change the cap-usage of Hybrids nor Lasers for that matter. If anything, the capacitor itself should be changed to fitt accordingly for each ship designated role.
But really, the weapons itselfs needs to be balanced to the ships they are being used on. The DPS difference between Autocannons and Megapulses is not great enough to justify zero-cap vs. high-cap usage.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Xendie
Forsaken Empire
The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.15 22:51:00 -
[114]
OMG!!! nerf Blue Squirrels!!
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Quote:
jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.01.17 20:31:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Dixon
Comparing the guns without using the bonuses isn't a fair comparison. Every single minmatar ship receives that RoF bonus and all gallente blasterships get that damage bonus, to compare without the bonuses is like comparing laser cap usage before the 10% per level reduction.
It a fair comparison of guns. My point is that comparing ships simply by looking at the damage their guns do and the amount of cap they consume is not a fair comparison. There's a lot more to a ship than it's weaponry.
So, comparing ships, requires many many factors, comparing guns, requires only looking at the attributes of those guns. It's too bad that some devs think the way you do because beams and rails are identical if you take ship bonuses on a Apoc and Megathron (same dps, same tracking, mega has more range, apoc uses more cap)
-Bart
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Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.17 21:25:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Sir Bart
Originally by: Dixon
Comparing the guns without using the bonuses isn't a fair comparison. Every single minmatar ship receives that RoF bonus and all gallente blasterships get that damage bonus, to compare without the bonuses is like comparing laser cap usage before the 10% per level reduction.
It a fair comparison of guns. My point is that comparing ships simply by looking at the damage their guns do and the amount of cap they consume is not a fair comparison. There's a lot more to a ship than it's weaponry.
Hey, I never said things should be identical and I do agree that many factors should be considered when comparing ships.
Originally by: Sir Bart
So, comparing ships, requires many many factors, comparing guns, requires only looking at the attributes of those guns. It's too bad that some devs think the way you do because beams and rails are identical if you take ship bonuses on a Apoc and Megathron (same dps, same tracking, mega has more range, apoc uses more cap)
-Bart
But the Apoc is just a poor example of a ship IMO and the stats are only similar if you use Megabeams but they're pretty crappy compared to tachyons. And if you're using tachyons and an Armageddon or Abaddon then rails and beams are very different indeed, as they should.
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Originally by: Cmdr Sy
So here is the state of Amarr tech. Nos, plate, EANM and a tracking disruptor - pick two out of four and counter all setups.
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Gol'D Roger
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.07 22:42:00 -
[117]
....
a mega is a completly diferent ship then a tempest or typhon . its a DAMAGE DEALER its specialisation is to hit hard , web , scram . a typhon one of the best solo ships for 0.0 rathunting , misions etc its a nice alrounder. a tanking typhon wil win aginst any blasterthrun if the pilot is good enuth. but on the uther side if the typhon gos special tank , why not the megathron too...railgun mega -.- (you see wer this is going) btw if you see you loos a mega still has its mwd
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