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Why do ccp give in to mission runners lobby?

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Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.09 23:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Benglada on 09/01/2007 23:37:29 It seems to me that everytime mission runners whine about something they get it. Case in point: Probing a mission. Why should probing a mission be any less difficult then probing a safespot? Why should them doing a mission give them some magical near invulnurability? If they fail to use the scanner to see if someones scanning them, that is THEIR problem. When im at a safespot 95% of the time im aligned and mash the scan button like a psychopath and, because of this, i rarely die. I think mission runners should have to do the same thing, it is low sec after all, is it not? For the record i have only probed down two mission runners in my life time, but id like the option to do it now because its incredibly annoying having people in low sec in ravens pretty well un touchable. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig By Ortos
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.09 23:53:00 - [2] Regardless of the term Massive Multiplayer Game, a lot, if not most of the cash is raked in by people that treat the game as a Massively Shared Single Player Game. Any game company that fails to cater to the single players will miss out on the revenue needed to sustain the servers. I'm not happy about the changes in probing down mission runners - made a few billion in loot for the corp in the weeks after Kali deployment, but I'm glad EVE offers a (though limmited) single player experience. Not all are lucky enough to start out the game with a bunch of excellent guys like I have, and unlike WoW for instance, it's a lot more difficult to find people to gang up with in EVE, cause of the lethal nature and value of trusting people.
Desiderious Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 23:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Desiderious on 09/01/2007 23:56:18 The first question is a hypothetical question - reason? - game mechanics. The reason that it gives them 'invulnurability' is because they are already fighting very tough mobs. Its not like a belt where you have 5 battleships max. In missions your often going up against much tougher things that require more of your attention. You are true about the scanner thing. It is their problem but it may be a little difficult to do that while simultaneously doing a difficult level 4 mission. When your at a safespot your not doing anything other than mayby looking at local and scanning. Hell I get a blue screen every once in a while if I get a lag spike (scan). The thing is sometimes your warpscrambled. Also some ships require you to be at a certain distance to do damage, thus you cant always be alligned. Also picking up the loot and going to the next area also require you to not be alligned. It is frusterating. But if poeple are so blind to the danger than you should get them 3% of the time. Doesnt sound glamerous but its something. Besides you have to keep in mind they do risk a little by simply bringing the ship to low sec and doing the missions. ----------------------------- Oink ^OO^ Your sig is too large. Please resize it so that it fits within 400x120. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Mondo Banana Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:10:00 - [4] Perhaps you should just get a barrel and fill it with fish. That sounds about right for your skill level. If you want an "I WIN" button there's always more room over at WoW....
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Benglada on 10/01/2007 00:07:20 Originally by: Desiderious Edited by: Desiderious on 09/01/2007 23:56:18 The first question is a hypothetical question - reason? - game mechanics. The reason that it gives them 'invulnurability' is because they are already fighting very tough mobs. Its not like a belt where you have 5 battleships max. In missions your often going up against much tougher things that require more of your attention. You are true about the scanner thing. It is their problem but it may be a little difficult to do that while simultaneously doing a difficult level 4 mission. When your at a safespot your not doing anything other than mayby looking at local and scanning. Hell I get a blue screen every once in a while if I get a lag spike (scan). The thing is sometimes your warpscrambled. Also some ships require you to be at a certain distance to do damage, thus you cant always be alligned. Also picking up the loot and going to the next area also require you to not be alligned. It is frusterating. But if poeple are so blind to the danger than you should get them 3% of the time. Doesnt sound glamerous but its something. Besides you have to keep in mind they do risk a little by simply bringing the ship to low sec and doing the missions. And this is different then what EVERYONE else does how? Fine. When i engage something on a gate i want someone attacking me to have a 3% chance to fail lock. Reason being because the person im attacking potentially does more then 15 npc battleships counting the fact i cant tank all damage types. Hell, When seiging a POS i want enemy fleets warping in to have a 10% chance of "not succesfully warping to the pos" Because the POS is significantly more dangerous then a belt rat. Im obviously being sarcastic but i think it shows the flaws in your argument quite well. Doing a level 4 mission in low sec is now a 1,000 times less dangerous then belt ratting. I also know for a fact that level 4 mission runners are usually about 40km from the gate where you jump in. Due to the fact you cannot use a mwd in deadspace this gives them a healthy time to get out. People only died due to lack of attention. You think i would belt rat with a pirate in system? hell no. Why would you do a mission with a pirate in local? --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig By Ortos
Portios Smith Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:14:00 - [6] Edited by: Portios Smith on 10/01/2007 00:10:59 Yea, MC and BWL are hard enugh with out us gankers doing our thing Instanced space ftl Sig removed does not contain your name, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:15:00 - [7] Thing is, most of em resides in npc corps, hence u can't war dec em. Thats #1 invulnerability shield. #2 is to run an alt with shuttle to lowsec and drop off mods in the system u do mission in.. invulnerable.. can't do em without dictor bubbles, and if u do, they log.. so they are invulnerable both in losec and 0.0 #3 is shipping their main mission running ship throu the lowsec pipe, w/o mods since u already shipped them.. fills low with stabs.. usually.. with alt scout = invulnerable.. #4 Station -> Deadspace.. only place where u can catch em is station.. all they have to do is redock.. and u have 3% chance to find em i kinda call that invulnerable (97%) so mission runners have it good..
Portios Smith Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Mondo Banana Perhaps you should just get a barrel and fill it with fish. That sounds about right for your skill level. If you want an "I WIN" button there's always more room over at WoW.... Based on what you are defendig the one making WoW reservations should be you, I am sure there is a 40 man raid waiting for you in private instance land. Sig removed does not contain your name, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Stakhanov Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:18:00 - [9] I agree , the combined changes give a ridiculous situation. They have been offered 99% safe lowsec missions , just use an insta-undock bookmark , warp to acceleration gate , and insta-dock whenever you have to. Unless you have squads of bumping battleships and a small army of covops scanning for those precious few seconds when the runner is at the acceleration gate , your chances of finding (much less catching) him are negligible. It's even more worrying when you think about the exploration sites. Belts and complexes only accessible by those who like to sit for hours on end probing. It used to be accepted as normal that Eve is a game ruled by PvP , now pirates are supposed to grind to initiate combat.
Enders Vaal Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:35:00 - [10] So... I'm sure if you're in 0.0 you have other things to worry about than some guy running missions. Seriously, why get your panties in a twist over this --- "You are without doubt the worst pirate I've ever heard of." "...but you have heard of me." [green]Please resize imag
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:45:00 - [11] Why don't you whine (yea whine) in another of the many topics on the subject. Probing mission runners was so easy immediately post patch that we couldn't even keep up with our cov ops. We'd kill a ship and the next would be ready for us. It was a feeding frenzy, unsustainable and bad for the game in the short, medium and long term. Frankly, if you can't see past your own POV on this then I'm disappointed.
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.10 00:47:00 - [12] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Why don't you whine (yea whine) in another of the many topics on the subject. Probing mission runners was so easy immediately post patch that we couldn't even keep up with our cov ops. We'd kill a ship and the next would be ready for us. It was a feeding frenzy, unsustainable and bad for the game in the short, medium and long term. Frankly, if you can't see past your own POV on this then I'm disappointed. The only reason that happened is missioners tend to be quite brainless, and dont watch local. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig By Ortos
Mondo Banana Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.10 01:18:00 - [13] So like I said, you expect a never-ending supply of brainless targets that can be found and dispatched with the mighty IWIN button. And like I said there is lots of room for you over at WoW where you won't have to try so hard and strain your poor brain.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.10 01:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Why don't you whine (yea whine) in another of the many topics on the subject. Probing mission runners was so easy immediately post patch that we couldn't even keep up with our cov ops. We'd kill a ship and the next would be ready for us. It was a feeding frenzy, unsustainable and bad for the game in the short, medium and long term. Frankly, if you can't see past your own POV on this then I'm disappointed. The only reason that happened is missioners tend to be quite brainless, and dont watch local. As opposed to some forum posters who are quite brainless because they fail to recognise there are at least two sides to consider when balancing something,
The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.10 02:07:00 - [15] Edited by: The Armin on 10/01/2007 02:05:33 I think the thing with lowsec is.. A corp or alliance should _fight_ to get access to the best agents.. They should put scouts out in all directions.. Known pirates and competitors should be wardecced out of the area. When you've done that, you're safe to mission run. In my opinion, low sec should never be as secure as it is today. Creating outposts in lowsec and allowing lvl4q20 agents to move to these outposts when the executors corp has 8.0 corp standing to a faction would probably fix it, but I'm not sure I'd like to see that :/ Would probably be awesome for the rp'ers though. But it isn't like that. You don't have to fight for your isk/area as everyone but the traders, you're completely invulnerable unless someone wins the deadspace scanning lotto, and y'all go nuts once someone suggest a change to missions. Meh, I'm fed up with missions runner. I'd be happy to see all lvl4/5 agents moved to losec but you'd whine the forums broken, prolly.
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.10 02:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Mondo Banana So like I said, you expect a never-ending supply of brainless targets that can be found and dispatched with the mighty IWIN button. And like I said there is lots of room for you over at WoW where you won't have to try so hard and strain your poor brain. I want mission runners to be at the same risk as ratters, And i want mission running to require a small amount of brains. Like i said, Iv only done this twice before, as it is mission running in low sec has zero hazard. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig By Ortos
Laing Candu OCForums	Posted - 2007.01.10 02:37:00 - [17] Yeah, low sec should defintely be made less attractive to NPCers because there are way too many people there as it is!
Amanty	Posted - 2007.01.10 03:17:00 - [18] Quote: I want mission runners to be at the same risk as ratters, And i want mission running to require a small amount of brains. How does it feel to want? I am just so glad that when I run a mission I can just sit there and stare at the monitor mindlessly while drooling... /sarcasm off I want Pirates to stop bellyaching about the fact that everything is not handed to them on a silver platter every time. Think thats going to happen any time soon? CCP does a pretty good job of balancing the wants and needs of all the different styles of play in the game. Just because they dont give you everything that you want does not mean that they are not doing a good job.
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.10 03:26:00 - [19] I think we need a neutral partys point of view, im a pirate your a carebear. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig By Ortos
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Benglada I think we need a neutral partys point of view, im a pirate your a carebear. I say, old system. It was hard. It took loads of time. You needed experience. Most people had no idea how to do it. ...But it wasn't chance based
Levin Milraco	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:18:00 - [21] hurry!!! call the WAAAAAAAAAAbulance.... seriously, you guys missed one thing: failing a mission (say, lvl 4... storyline.) can kill the missioner's standings. (something like 3.0 to 5.0 faction standing loss for the really important storylines. and those usually have an objective that needed to be returned that can be stolen by us =P...) even failing other missions (normal, lvl 4) do hurt them quite a bit. worst now ever since they made it so you lose both faction and corp standings for failing. if standings arent such a ***** to gain, it would have been fine, but for a casual player, they can potentially lose 4 to 5 months of standing. and that would be game breaking for alot of people. how would you like it if you cant shoot at another player for 4 to 5 months if you get killed once? or better yet... sp loss?... there is no insurance for standing btw... hence the current system is okay... since when it 1st came out, it only take 5 minutes to find them. if they keep it that way, people will no longer do missions in low sec. (unless they are REALLY insane or stupid..) since it pretty much certain death before the nerf. (yeah yeah, the whole watch local crap... try doing that when you have tons of npc ships with the dmg output of capitals hitting ya... you have to be VERY VERY super aware of everything/highstrung to do that.) and there was an exodus to high sec during that week for low sec mission runners. but yeah, atm, is okay, is hard to find them, but if you do find them, they are screwed big time... Personally, I would prefer the old scanning system where you need 3 probes to triangulate for the target. atleast in that system, it takes skills and dedication. and not every kiddie can drop afew probes to find someone, (and whine when they cant...the older system is better in that they only have their skill to blame, not a game mechanic. )
Ethan Tomlinson The Collective	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:22:00 - [22] why do you guys who run missions in low sec think you should have it any easier than the rest of us npc'ing in a belt in 0.0? It should be perfectly normal to be able to scan for us and warp to npc'ers in a belt as it should be to probe down someone who is running a deadspace mission in low sec or 0.0 this really is a sandbox game which means its not like wow and that npc'ing is not the main objective of the game. please get off your high horse and if u dont want to be handed over to pirates on a silver platter try watching local or joining a corp with some sort of combat force and mission when pirates arn't around
Levin Milraco	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson why do you guys who run missions in low sec think you should have it any easier than the rest of us npc'ing in a belt in 0.0? It should be perfectly normal to be able to scan for us and warp to npc'ers in a belt as it should be to probe down someone who is running a deadspace mission in low sec or 0.0 this really is a sandbox game which means its not like wow and that npc'ing is not the main objective of the game. please get off your high horse and if u dont want to be handed over to pirates on a silver platter try watching local or joining a corp with some sort of combat force and mission when pirates arn't around For the record, I been pirate, mission runner, miner, manufacturer and trader...just before anyone calls me whatever... once again, you didnt see the whole picture, short verison to explain things: -npcer in a belt being killed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. Time lost: not alot of time. -Missioner in mission being killed/griefed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone, AND standing loss. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. but STANDINGS takes weeks to months to grind. (yes, watching standings goes up 0.05 for every 16 mission takes awhile for people who only play 2 hrs a day..) hence the difference. (personally, doing missions in low sec is asking for a royal screwing. so my solution is, People who cant afford to lose standings/isk/whatever stay away from low sec.... but then some ppl will complain about lack of targets...)
Levin Milraco	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson why do you guys who run missions in low sec think you should have it any easier than the rest of us npc'ing in a belt in 0.0? It should be perfectly normal to be able to scan for us and warp to npc'ers in a belt as it should be to probe down someone who is running a deadspace mission in low sec or 0.0 this really is a sandbox game which means its not like wow and that npc'ing is not the main objective of the game. please get off your high horse and if u dont want to be handed over to pirates on a silver platter try watching local or joining a corp with some sort of combat force and mission when pirates arn't around For the record, I been pirate, mission runner, miner, manufacturer and trader...just before anyone calls me whatever... once again, you didnt see the whole picture, short verison to explain things: -npcer in a belt being killed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. Time lost: not alot of time. -Missioner in mission being killed/griefed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone, AND standing loss. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. but STANDINGS takes weeks to months to grind. (yes, watching standings goes up 0.05 for every 16 mission takes awhile for people who only play 2 hrs a day..) hence the difference. (personally, doing missions in low sec is asking for a royal screwing. so my solution is, People who cant afford to lose standings/isk/whatever stay away from low sec.... but then some ppl will complain about lack of targets...)
Levin Milraco	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson why do you guys who run missions in low sec think you should have it any easier than the rest of us npc'ing in a belt in 0.0? It should be perfectly normal to be able to scan for us and warp to npc'ers in a belt as it should be to probe down someone who is running a deadspace mission in low sec or 0.0 this really is a sandbox game which means its not like wow and that npc'ing is not the main objective of the game. please get off your high horse and if u dont want to be handed over to pirates on a silver platter try watching local or joining a corp with some sort of combat force and mission when pirates arn't around For the record, I been pirate, mission runner, miner, manufacturer and trader...just before anyone calls me whatever... once again, you didnt see the whole picture, short verison to explain things: -npcer in a belt being killed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. Time lost: not alot of time. -Missioner in mission being killed/griefed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone, AND standing loss. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. but STANDINGS takes weeks to months to grind. (yes, watching standings goes up 0.05 for every 16 mission takes awhile for people who only play 2 hrs a day..) hence the difference. (personally, doing missions in low sec is asking for a royal screwing. so my solution is, People who cant afford to lose standings/isk/whatever stay away from low sec.... but then some ppl will complain about lack of targets...)
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:42:00 - [26] Originally by: Levin Milraco Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson why do you guys who run missions in low sec think you should have it any easier than the rest of us npc'ing in a belt in 0.0? It should be perfectly normal to be able to scan for us and warp to npc'ers in a belt as it should be to probe down someone who is running a deadspace mission in low sec or 0.0 this really is a sandbox game which means its not like wow and that npc'ing is not the main objective of the game. please get off your high horse and if u dont want to be handed over to pirates on a silver platter try watching local or joining a corp with some sort of combat force and mission when pirates arn't around For the record, I been pirate, mission runner, miner, manufacturer and trader...just before anyone calls me whatever... once again, you didnt see the whole picture, short verison to explain things: -npcer in a belt being killed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. Time lost: not alot of time. -Missioner in mission being killed/griefed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone, AND standing loss. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. but STANDINGS takes weeks to months to grind. (yes, watching standings goes up 0.05 for every 16 mission takes awhile for people who only play 2 hrs a day..) hence the difference. (personally, doing missions in low sec is asking for a royal screwing. so my solution is, People who cant afford to lose standings/isk/whatever stay away from low sec.... but then some ppl will complain about lack of targets...) How does being killed make your mission auto-fail? Get another ship and finish the mission and get a friend to fend off the pirates.
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Levin Milraco Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson why do you guys who run missions in low sec think you should have it any easier than the rest of us npc'ing in a belt in 0.0? It should be perfectly normal to be able to scan for us and warp to npc'ers in a belt as it should be to probe down someone who is running a deadspace mission in low sec or 0.0 this really is a sandbox game which means its not like wow and that npc'ing is not the main objective of the game. please get off your high horse and if u dont want to be handed over to pirates on a silver platter try watching local or joining a corp with some sort of combat force and mission when pirates arn't around For the record, I been pirate, mission runner, miner, manufacturer and trader...just before anyone calls me whatever... once again, you didnt see the whole picture, short verison to explain things: -npcer in a belt being killed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. Time lost: not alot of time. -Missioner in mission being killed/griefed = Ship lost, needing to buy a new clone, AND standing loss. Insurance gets you a new ship (if T1) ... Clone dont cost that much. but STANDINGS takes weeks to months to grind. (yes, watching standings goes up 0.05 for every 16 mission takes awhile for people who only play 2 hrs a day..) hence the difference. (personally, doing missions in low sec is asking for a royal screwing. so my solution is, People who cant afford to lose standings/isk/whatever stay away from low sec.... but then some ppl will complain about lack of targets...) How does being killed make your mission auto-fail? Get another ship and finish the mission and get a friend to fend off the pirates.
Levin Milraco	Posted - 2007.01.10 04:56:00 - [28] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri How does being killed make your mission auto-fail? Get another ship and finish the mission and get a friend to fend off the pirates. very very evil Grin not all missions are like that...BUT... Well, you see, for alot of missions, there is an item that drop that has to be returned to the agent for completion. now, if that item is destoryed/stolen by me/pirate. the mission CANNOT be completed. he has to a) take a standing hit and fail the mission or b) leave it open till it expires for a heavier standing hit... if its a ordinary kill mission, yes, he can come back to finish it.. but all it takes is one of the lvl 4 fetch/return missions to be messed up to sent the person back to grinding lvl 2/low quality lvl 3s again.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.01.10 05:14:00 - [29] Ratting in 0.0 is safer than running missions in low-sec.
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.10 05:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Levin Milraco hurry!!! failing a mission (say, lvl 4... storyline.) can kill the missioner's standings. Call the WAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance. Quote: if they keep it that way, people will no longer do missions in low sec. (unless they are REALLY insane or stupid..) Or smart enough to read local and wait 10 minutes for them to leave? --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig By Ortos

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