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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
skilzrulz Gallente Automated Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.15 04:11:00 - [31] Originally by: Soporo Quote: I calculated with 30,000 active players, at $14 Dollars monthly Probably far less due to the sale of gtc for isk? You sir win ARTARD of the year award, congrats.
TOGAKURE Daisuke Sty's Haulink	Posted - 2007.01.15 04:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Hllaxiu Uh, I believe taxes would be referring to VAT on your subscription fees. In other words, CCP isn't getting that full $15 in the first place. Well, CCP is not getting $'s in the first place at all, they receive ISK (as in the real money of Iceland). So when the dollar took a dive they lost a slice of the revenue. Their CFO was complaining from that. If I've understood correctly, the actually now try to keep the $'s in the US operation and the Ç's in this side so that the monetary markets can't tilt their revenue so drastically.
Isodoros Immobiliares	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:03:00 - [33] Originally by: emepror 150000 players x 14 $ a month = 2.1 million x 12 months = 25.2 million dollars!!! they make 25.2 million dollars a year without taxes yeah I made the same calculation But look at it. They are in a high cost contry. Iceland. Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ Last I knew they had 60 employees. But that was like a year ago. And I think they have grown considderably since then. For the sake of the argument lets say they pay the workers outrageus salleries at 8000$ And they have now a workforce of 75ppl (probobly more but hey) 75employees x 8000$ x 12months = 7.2 mill ú But before we deduct the wages, we need to take out the income tax. Iceland is a tax heavy contry. So lets say they have 20% income tax. (probobly much less but hey) 25.2 mill / 100 x 20 = 5.02 25.2 - 5.02 - 7.2 = 12.98 mill After tax and pure wages. Then you have pentionplans. I dunno if Iceland have that so I'm not going to add it. Then there is workmans tax that some contries have to pay. I'm again unsure if Iceland have this. But if they do, you can add 20-25% higher expenses on the wages. Then there is the rental of the offices. The usage of bandwidth. The beer. :P The last must be staggering in itself. If I would take an educated guess on the expense of office and bandwidth I would guess around 200.000 for the offices and maybe 2 mill on the line. However. I'm not going to write that in blood. So your probobly left whit less than 7-8 mill after most of the major expenses. Then. There are loans. I do not know if ccp have any major loans taken. But I wouldn't be supriced if they had. And downpaymentplans would have to be seen in this respect also. Now. ccp haven't had 150k subscribers for very long. Less than a year. Pre rmr I would guess. the increase in subscribers mostly have been in late 2005 and early 2006 from my own estimate. So you shouldn't take any of these calculations for facts as I cannot be bothered to calculate incremental subscriber fees. I do not know if the china server is giving much at the moment. But I don't think it's reached subscriber stage yet. And I do now know if CCP gains any royalties from it yet. As I understand it, CCP doesn't run the day to day show over there and thats why I'm lead to think they resive royalties instead of getting the pure subscriber payments they get from tranquility. As I belive the china server is still in beta, I do not think ccp resives royalties yet from it. The fact that CCP just bought White Wolf indicates that they have a substantial surplus and is able to justify the loan to buy the company. (it's probobly partial payed whit shares, so the loan burden is probobly not that heavy.) I do not intend to speculate on the eve-shop or fanfest. But I'm inclined to belive they are not that substantial, if even in surplus at all. Then you have advertisement, EVE used to be an ear to mouth game. And in many respects are. So it doesn't have the large budget EA or Sony have. Nor that it needs to. But I would add travel expenses and convention aparenses in this collum to. From what I gather CCP often sent ppl to conventions all around the world. And it must do a slight dent into the budget. I wouldn't be lead to think they spend a million on it. But I don't think they spend much less either. As long as the subscriber level is at it's current level. I don't not belive CCP is going to run into any major money problems anytime soon. Although I'm not Meryll Lynch and all my assumptions are made out of general belifs of the company and the contry it's resided. Although, I don't think I'm wrong. Conclution is that CCP is doing very well when it's all said and done. My guess would be that CCP probobly is going to be left whit a substantial surplus even after tax and expenses is payed. And the partnership whit the chinese company and white wolf just shows it now have more feet to stand on. Now. If they only could fix the damn lag I wouldn't be complaining :D
Isodoros Immobiliares	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:07:00 - [34] Edited by: Isodoros on 15/01/2007 05:06:38 Damn. I forgot Oveur's Farrari.. Or was it Lamburgini? I think it's time for Oveur to step up again and sacrifice himself again for the greater good. Just buy yourself a real box this time. Ask Microsoft what they use. Their lines are brilliant. Maybe even Bill will chip in a few dollars for you. ;) Edit: Originally by: TOGAKURE Daisuke Well, CCP is not getting $'s in the first place at all, they receive ISK (as in the real money of Iceland) Actually. ISK isn't the currency anymore. I think it's changed a few years back. But it was that when EVE first started and they have just kept it. I think thats cute though. And makes you smile a bit when you think of it. :)
Sev Renard Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:20:00 - [35] Edited by: Sev Renard on 15/01/2007 05:17:00 sigh Is it just me? Or does anyone else find it kinda saddening when anyone who can do a <subscription cost>*<accounts> has suddenly uncovered the terrible squandering of MMO companies? For one thing, throwing more money at hardware isn't really an option. Game lag has more than lack of hardware to blame. I'd read some of the Devblogs on this.. _________________________________________ I wonder which will come first, my portrait, or a sig hijack...
Isodoros Immobiliares	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Sev Renard Edited by: Sev Renard on 15/01/2007 05:17:00 sigh Is it just me? Or does anyone else find it kinda saddening when anyone who can do a <subscription cost>*<accounts> has suddenly uncovered the terrible squandering of MMO companies? For one thing, throwing more money at hardware isn't really an option. Game lag has more than lack of hardware to blame. I'd read some of the Devblogs on this.. WTH are you on about mate? I agree that you sometimes can get more out of the hardware you have by tweeking it. BUT.. You cannot denie that you transfere more data between servers,clusters,boxes in general if you have better hardware. Thats like saying my old 386 will do the same job as my new pentium 4 if I just tweeked it enough. I trust you see that your reasoning is obviusly flawed in this respect? You can only streamline the codes so much and you can only limit the bandwidth load so much and still have the same game. So more hardware need to be essential. Though in relations whit each other. Now. I don't expect em to go out and buy hal. Though I'd be happy if they did.
Sev Renard Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:31:00 - [37] Not to nitpick, but what I'm saying is that more hardware isn't always going to "fix lag". Sure it can help, but in the end there's no IWIN button of anti-lag. People have said this better than I have, time and time again. _________________________________________ I wonder which will come first, my portrait, or a sig hijack...
Kiyano Caldari Star Fraction Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:37:00 - [38] CCP have already said they're going to update their hardware and that fixing lag is a major issue this year, one of the problems lies in that the right hardware is very expensive and may not be easily got ahold of now. They have to spend the money on the right piece of equipment and then test it etc etc, not saying the game should be this laggy but it will take time to sort. I mean, one of the pieces of equipment that CCP use to run Eve had to be flown out of Texas by the military with government permission iirc, thats the kind of expensive/powerful stuff we're talking about here, i bet that doesn't come quick or cheap.
TOGAKURE Daisuke Sty's Haulink	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Isodoros Originally by: TOGAKURE Daisuke Well, CCP is not getting $'s in the first place at all, they receive ISK (as in the real money of Iceland) Actually. ISK isn't the currency any more. I think it's changed a few years back. But it was that when EVE first started and they have just kept it. I think that's cute though. And makes you smile a bit when you think of it. :) Umm, so what they're using there then? I'm pretty sure it's still Icelandic kr=na that's the official money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_kr%C3%B3na
TOGAKURE Daisuke Sty's Haulink	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Kiyano I mean, one of the pieces of equipment that CCP use to run Eve had to be flown out of Texas by the military with government permission iirc, thats the kind of expensive/powerful stuff we're talking about here, i bet that doesn't come quick or cheap. Citation needed, or it didn't happen.
Kiyano Caldari Star Fraction Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.15 05:41:00 - [41] Originally by: TOGAKURE Daisuke Originally by: Kiyano I mean, one of the pieces of equipment that CCP use to run Eve had to be flown out of Texas by the military with government permission iirc, thats the kind of expensive/powerful stuff we're talking about here, i bet that doesn't come quick or cheap. Citation needed, or it didn't happen. Said by one of the people hosting talks at the fanfest, i saw it on a downloaded video of it. I really couldn't tell you who said it, but i'm sure someone else here will tell you who it was etc. It was mentioned along with the Eve server being one of the top 400 most powerful servers out there.
Chargon	Posted - 2007.01.15 06:07:00 - [42] Edited by: Chargon on 15/01/2007 06:04:23 I would have to say a major problem with lag is the cans that infest Eve. I mean thats alot of objects for a server to track and the can count goes up every day. Certainly alot faster then player count. This could be fixed very easily put a timer on secure cans like say 1 month? Or even request players to get there cans once a month those that dont there cans get wiped.
DJ Death	Posted - 2007.01.15 06:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Soporo Quote: I calculated with 30,000 active players, at $14 Dollars monthly Probably far less due to the sale of gtc for isk? Nah, CCP can produce as much ISK as they need. CCP probally sell the isk too, via online sites that people use and are toooooo lazy to do missions and looting and 0.0 work
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.15 06:16:00 - [44] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch CCP is based in Iceland which is not part of the EU. Iceland is part of the European Economic Area, which is close enough for tax purposes. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
charles laforge	Posted - 2007.01.15 06:22:00 - [45] so ccp generate a 25 mil a yr turnover,, excellent reguardless of the flaws and direct faults with eve it is still one of if not the best space bases mmo out there, and all built without the backing of a mega corp like sony or microsoft no im not a fanboi, yes im a very active player yes i get annoyed at the lag and the ctd's and all the other stuff, but i havent found a game that beats this for the political and social side and till i do i will stay, jita is a hell hole and will probably stay that way, so just stop shopping there, why have the aggro to save/make a extra few mill, the usual " this is my own personal view and does not reflect the opinions of my corp"
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.15 07:34:00 - [46] Well.. Blizzard and WoW have aprox 7 mill subs, and their members pay from 15 dollar a month too. But that does not stop the servers from having a VERY loong log in queue. All programs have limitations. And it does not have anything with money to do. Also, steer clear from Jita! I dont have problems at all, but maybe thats because I live in a waaayy quieter system! EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
Lucio Gallente UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.15 08:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Isodoros But look at it. They are in a high cost contry. Iceland. Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ Last I knew they had 60 employees. But that was like a year ago. And I think they have grown considderably since then. For the sake of the argument lets say they pay the workers outrageus salleries at 8000$ And they have now a workforce of 75ppl (probobly more but hey) 75employees x 8000$ x 12months = 7.2 mill Tiny problem with those figures, you're off by a factor of 3. A typical UK IT grunt salary (bearing in mind that the physical servers are here) runs to a good $25,000+ a year, with the top level people earning up to $100,000. So yeah, that revenue stream must be looking pretty small compared to just the wage bill. Still, that said, you're looking just at the team that runs Eve, CCP is unlikely just to be working on Eve, given that they found the time/cash to purchase White Wolf (who admitedly were probably not far off bankruptcy given the state of the roleplaying industry) All in all, this is business stuff and unless CCP/White Wolf decide to make an IPO, you'll NEVER get official confirmation of these figures :) ************************************************ Yes, I know I have a negative sec. status but I'm not a pirate damnit!
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.15 09:54:00 - [48] Originally by: emepror 150000 players x 14 $ a month = 2.1 million x 12 months = 25.2 million dollars!!! they make 25.2 million dollars a year without taxes OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!! WoW is said to have 7 mil subscribers or so. Monthly prices are not much different I think. Wonder if Blizzard can believe themselves, how much money they make now. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.15 10:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Well.. Blizzard and WoW have aprox 7 mill subs, and their members pay from 15 dollar a month too. But that does not stop the servers from having a VERY loong log in queue. All programs have limitations. And it does not have anything with money to do. Also, steer clear from Jita! I dont have problems at all, but maybe thats because I live in a waaayy quieter system! Actually 8m subs, $14 per month and these kind of posts on their forums are enough of an excuse for a permaban from the forums. Oh and if you want some nifty calculations then : Each day of EvE Access costs you ~0.486 Euro or Dollars (calculating the 1h you can't play each day) Each hour costs you ~0.0202 Euro or Dollars (based on per month sub) _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

CCP Fear	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:09:00 - [50] We have recently added about 60 new nodes to the server. That is not cheap let me tell you. So there are constant Hardware upgrades and have been ever since we went live and more are coming this year. But the situation in Jita is of course a problem. And we are aware of it, however it won't be fixed overnight. But adding more money at it is not going to solve it. Honestly, why spend 400 thousand dollars at a problem you might be able to fix with only a 1000 dollars? But we are aware of the issue, and hopefully there will be some changes made soonÖ but we are not willing to just throw anything out there, in some desperate attempt to fix it. I'd rather make a rational and well thought out decision to fight Jita. And I think you can all agree on that. But hey, I myself have screamed at my computer when I have been stuck in Jita, so you are not alone out there. :)

DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:40:00 - [51] Quote: But hey, I myself have screamed at my computer when I have been stuck in Jita, so you are not alone out there. :) You shop in Jita? Man, that's like the Queen of England shopping at Wal-Mart I think we all know CCP's past the point of just being able to throw hardware at the problem... Diminishing returns and all that... It's sad to see the best MMO lagged out, it's ruining the game for a lot of players who can remember ~70 vs. 70 fleet battles with minimal lag... And ever since Kali, it seems that running two windowed clients (even on my newer comp) has killed the frame rate, and made the game even less playable in systems that are not crowded... We're getting hit from all sides here with decreased performance. Very frustrating indeed. Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:40:00 - [52] Quote: But hey, I myself have screamed at my computer when I have been stuck in Jita, so you are not alone out there. :) You shop in Jita? Man, that's like the Queen of England shopping at Wal-Mart I think we all know CCP's past the point of just being able to throw hardware at the problem... Diminishing returns and all that... It's sad to see the best MMO lagged out, it's ruining the game for a lot of players who can remember ~70 vs. 70 fleet battles with minimal lag... And ever since Kali, it seems that running two windowed clients (even on my newer comp) has killed the frame rate, and made the game even less playable in systems that are not crowded... We're getting hit from all sides here with decreased performance. Very frustrating indeed. Building the homestead
Brian Ballbag	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:49:00 - [53] Quote: They are in a high cost contry. Iceland. Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ try 15000-20000
Brian Ballbag	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:49:00 - [54] Quote: They are in a high cost contry. Iceland. Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ try 15000-20000
Jags Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:50:00 - [55] Originally by: Isodoros Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ You think Iceland is a backwater country or something ? Try adding at least one 0 at the end of those figues and you may be getting close to the actual salaries per person. In fact prob add a 0 and double it. You dont get ú5 pints for a reason up there
Jags Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Isodoros Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ You think Iceland is a backwater country or something ? Try adding at least one 0 at the end of those figues and you may be getting close to the actual salaries per person. In fact prob add a 0 and double it. You dont get ú5 pints for a reason up there
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.15 12:02:00 - [57] Originally by: Jags Originally by: Isodoros Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ You think Iceland is a backwater country or something ? Try adding at least one 0 at the end of those figues and you may be getting close to the actual salaries per person. In fact prob add a 0 and double it. You dont get ú5 pints for a reason up there Quote: 75employees x 8000$ x 12months = 7.2 mill ú His salary figures were monthly figures... Building the homestead
TerrorWOLF J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.15 12:12:00 - [58] Edited by: TerrorWOLF on 15/01/2007 12:08:26 Originally by: Jags Originally by: Isodoros Avrage sallery is probobly around 5000-8000$ You think Iceland is a backwater country or something ? Try adding at least one 0 at the end of those figues and you may be getting close to the actual salaries per person. In fact prob add a 0 and double it. You dont get ú5 pints for a reason up there 50000-80000 a month where do i sign up for that ?? Or maybe you want to read the post a 2nd time May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 12:17:00 - [59] On the subject of hardware, to quote Oveur: Originally by: Oveur The third is hardware. Part of the planning and scheduling now is determining the time and size of the 2-3 major hardware upgrades happening this year. And who can say no to hardware? We just have to figure out what hardware, how long we need to wait for the next-generation of hardware to replace current TQ and how we can make use of some more juicy stuff, like Infiniband or whatever we can get our hands on. And stuff. Ok, we admit it we're geeks. But we're proud of it, and EVE deserves only the best. I'm sure you agree :) In other words, they're just waiting for new technology to be invented, so they can buy it -----------------------------------------------
Y'HELO THAR	Posted - 2007.01.15 12:17:00 - [60] [QUOTE] and all built without the backing of a mega corp like sony or microsoft Wasn't eve originally owned and funded by simon & schuster interactive, or something along those lines? I think CCP bought back the rights to their own game from them, when things started looking better financially and they didn't really need the publisher anymore. I think that was a very good decision. Not having a publishing company breathing down your neck is 4tw. (Just look at EA and the horrible things they make their design studios do. ) Either way, saying this without any programming knowledge, so excuse me if i'm completely wrong: I think some of the fundamental aspects of eve might need some improving. ;p Like the fact that server nodes can't help each other out, etc. Untill something like that is possible, there will always be some hard limit to how many players can play in 1 system, and more hardware will only raise that limit a little. Maybe there's other solutions but... something has to be done. I think throwing money at programmers is probably better than throwing it at hardware. :p

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