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Nitrogendixoide
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:13:00 -
[1]
Why is it people will take a perfectly good item which has a high demand and an unusually high price, an start undercutting it by 10% or even more? Do they get off to depriving people of good profits? I can honestly not think of a good reason to kill not only your own profits, but the profits of other people.
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Nitrogendixoide
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:13:00 -
[2]
Why is it people will take a perfectly good item which has a high demand and an unusually high price, an start undercutting it by 10% or even more? Do they get off to depriving people of good profits? I can honestly not think of a good reason to kill not only your own profits, but the profits of other people.
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Mira deVorsha
Caldari
Boards.ie
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:17:00 -
[3]
how much is good profit? Clearly they are making a profit as well, or your production costs are higher.
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Mira deVorsha
Caldari
Boards.ie
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:17:00 -
[4]
how much is good profit? Clearly they are making a profit as well, or your production costs are higher.
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Naldo
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:27:00 -
[5]
Don't think thats the issue.
20% proffit > 5% peoffit.
Undercutting by 10% is sheer stupidity.
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Naldo
Caldari
Viper Squad
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:27:00 -
[6]
Don't think thats the issue.
20% proffit > 5% peoffit.
Undercutting by 10% is sheer stupidity.
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Baron Oxes
Hypermagic Mountain
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:31:00 -
[7]
From another thread; Originally by: Sainsburys
It's a real pain in the neck having this happen to you, as well as doing it to others. People do it to keep their orders at the top of the pile.
It tends to suggest to me that people are close to their margins, which normally causes me to then aggressively undercut by a big percentage to try and squeeze them out.
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Baron Oxes
Hypermagic Mountain
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:31:00 -
[8]
From another thread; Originally by: Sainsburys
It's a real pain in the neck having this happen to you, as well as doing it to others. People do it to keep their orders at the top of the pile.
It tends to suggest to me that people are close to their margins, which normally causes me to then aggressively undercut by a big percentage to try and squeeze them out.
H Y P E R M A G I C |
Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:33:00 -
[9]
Well it is possible...
That some people do it becouse they feel soem items are unfairly overpriced and they dont want to profit from it but rather help EVEs economy become more "fair".
Just look at all the t2 price whine threads...
Yes, i think they should be shot (podded) too. :)
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Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:33:00 -
[10]
Well it is possible...
That some people do it becouse they feel soem items are unfairly overpriced and they dont want to profit from it but rather help EVEs economy become more "fair".
Just look at all the t2 price whine threads...
Yes, i think they should be shot (podded) too. :)
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:45:00 -
[11]
I think the people in this thread havn't tried to put themselves into other peoples shoes. They only think from the standard market trader perspective. So let me give you several reasons people would undercut by 10%.
1. A non-trader who has a few of an item he wishes to unload, he sees the current prices and has no clue what to price it at... he knows if he prices it cheaply it will sell.
2. A heavy-duty trader who needs to liquidate some assets quickly so he can invest in something else.
3. A heavy-duty trader who has so much money and is tired of the current competition in the market... he figures he can undercut everyone and drive a lot of his competitors to lose money or to make such small margins that they stop trading. Once this is done he will have less competition and can make a massive margin.
4. JoeNobody MissionRunner gets an item and has no clue what buy/sell orders are really. He just hits sell and then advanced to see what it does... then prices his item so it's at the exact market value of the item, 0% above or below... because he figures thats what the item is worth.
5. You're dealing with a higher level trader than yourself. He may have hundreds of buy orders across multiple alts. He doesn't care about making maximum isk per item... he just wants them all to sell for some sort of profit as quickly as possible so he can make room for new items he is receiving through buy orders. He is trading 5 times more items than you are and thus can suffer making half as much profit per item easily.
I'm sure I could think of some more reasons someone would undercut as well... but I think I've proven my point. Just because you personally are losing money doesn't mean that the person doing it is stupid. His entire goal could be to lose you money. In which case a post like this is making that person very happy.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Mira deVorsha
Caldari
Boards.ie
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
That some people do it becouse they feel soem items are unfairly overpriced and they dont want to profit from it but rather help EVEs economy become more "fair".
Eve is a PvP world, Trade PvP being just as deadly.
More likely someone dumped a load of stuff on the market below cost to get rid of people undercutting them. Once the market dries up the return the prices to the original profit margins.
Of course there are many reasons someone will undercut by 10%. More often then not they are looking for quick cash.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:45:00 -
[13]
I think the people in this thread havn't tried to put themselves into other peoples shoes. They only think from the standard market trader perspective. So let me give you several reasons people would undercut by 10%.
1. A non-trader who has a few of an item he wishes to unload, he sees the current prices and has no clue what to price it at... he knows if he prices it cheaply it will sell.
2. A heavy-duty trader who needs to liquidate some assets quickly so he can invest in something else.
3. A heavy-duty trader who has so much money and is tired of the current competition in the market... he figures he can undercut everyone and drive a lot of his competitors to lose money or to make such small margins that they stop trading. Once this is done he will have less competition and can make a massive margin.
4. JoeNobody MissionRunner gets an item and has no clue what buy/sell orders are really. He just hits sell and then advanced to see what it does... then prices his item so it's at the exact market value of the item, 0% above or below... because he figures thats what the item is worth.
5. You're dealing with a higher level trader than yourself. He may have hundreds of buy orders across multiple alts. He doesn't care about making maximum isk per item... he just wants them all to sell for some sort of profit as quickly as possible so he can make room for new items he is receiving through buy orders. He is trading 5 times more items than you are and thus can suffer making half as much profit per item easily.
I'm sure I could think of some more reasons someone would undercut as well... but I think I've proven my point. Just because you personally are losing money doesn't mean that the person doing it is stupid. His entire goal could be to lose you money. In which case a post like this is making that person very happy.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Mira deVorsha
Caldari
Boards.ie
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
That some people do it becouse they feel soem items are unfairly overpriced and they dont want to profit from it but rather help EVEs economy become more "fair".
Eve is a PvP world, Trade PvP being just as deadly.
More likely someone dumped a load of stuff on the market below cost to get rid of people undercutting them. Once the market dries up the return the prices to the original profit margins.
Of course there are many reasons someone will undercut by 10%. More often then not they are looking for quick cash.
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Eskona Runningstar
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:48:00 -
[15]
Because they dont operate their production facilities at full load, so by lowering prices they can sell more, hence they might make smaller profits per unit, but get a higher overall profit because of overall trade volume.
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These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way.
Eskona Runningstar
Eve University
IVY League |
Eskona Runningstar
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:48:00 -
[16]
Because they dont operate their production facilities at full load, so by lowering prices they can sell more, hence they might make smaller profits per unit, but get a higher overall profit because of overall trade volume.
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These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way.
Eskona Runningstar
Eve University
IVY League |
Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:56:00 -
[17]
Honestly i see such massive undercuts too often to belive them all to be market manipulations of other, presumably big-time traders.
Just how many big time traders can you fit in a single station before they kill off each other? :)
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Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:56:00 -
[18]
Honestly i see such massive undercuts too often to belive them all to be market manipulations of other, presumably big-time traders.
Just how many big time traders can you fit in a single station before they kill off each other? :)
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.01.15 17:41:00 -
[19]
Because undercutting by 1 isk every time means its a competition of who can log in as many times as possible all day. If you undercut by 10%, the competition may think, ah screw this and move their goods to another region or they may buy all your goods and sell at their current price. Either way, the market will correct itself.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.01.15 17:41:00 -
[20]
Because undercutting by 1 isk every time means its a competition of who can log in as many times as possible all day. If you undercut by 10%, the competition may think, ah screw this and move their goods to another region or they may buy all your goods and sell at their current price. Either way, the market will correct itself.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 17:49:00 -
[21]
I've undercut some one by .01 isk
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 17:49:00 -
[22]
I've undercut some one by .01 isk
Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2007.01.15 18:45:00 -
[23]
We undercut or overbid for items for much of the same reason: Urgency. While I have never undercut to sell something at a loss, I hate having to babysit my buy/sell orders. So when I put out a buy order or sell order that needs to be processed quickly, I make sure that its a rate that seperates the boys from the men!
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2007.01.15 18:45:00 -
[24]
We undercut or overbid for items for much of the same reason: Urgency. While I have never undercut to sell something at a loss, I hate having to babysit my buy/sell orders. So when I put out a buy order or sell order that needs to be processed quickly, I make sure that its a rate that seperates the boys from the men!
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Nitrogendixoide
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 19:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
I've undercut some one by .01 isk
That's what I try to do every time. It helps keep prices high and my profits wonderful.
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Nitrogendixoide
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.01.15 19:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
I've undercut some one by .01 isk
That's what I try to do every time. It helps keep prices high and my profits wonderful.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.15 19:55:00 -
[27]
Volume profit is my prefered goal not bothered abut a big mark up per item i sell
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.01.15 19:55:00 -
[28]
Volume profit is my prefered goal not bothered abut a big mark up per item i sell
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.15 20:10:00 -
[29]
The only items I undercut at .01 is minerals. Every item worth in excess of 1 mill isk I raise/lower the price by 10k isk at a time. You can say I'm losing 9.999 isk each time I sell something... but that's fine, I am happy that if people want to keep undercutting me then they will be forced to lower their prices by as much as I did. I make plenty of money... so if I'm lowering the profits of others then it is good for me.
On some items i'll change prices by 100k to 1+ mil at a time just to force the market price to change faster to make the market shift quickly in order to cause instability in the market which scares off lots of unsure traders.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.15 20:10:00 -
[30]
The only items I undercut at .01 is minerals. Every item worth in excess of 1 mill isk I raise/lower the price by 10k isk at a time. You can say I'm losing 9.999 isk each time I sell something... but that's fine, I am happy that if people want to keep undercutting me then they will be forced to lower their prices by as much as I did. I make plenty of money... so if I'm lowering the profits of others then it is good for me.
On some items i'll change prices by 100k to 1+ mil at a time just to force the market price to change faster to make the market shift quickly in order to cause instability in the market which scares off lots of unsure traders.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
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