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Why people undercut by 10% or more

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David H'Levi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.06 03:26:00 - [151] Originally by: Lord WarATron However, if you are controling the market - Then buy his goods out and resell. Making a fuss does nothing. Back a few months ago, when I ran the 0.0 Paragoon Soul Giant Can Mafia, where I bought out anyone selling Giant cans cheaper than me and then resold them at 4.5mil in 0.0. Nobody could topple me because I focused on a niche, and forced everyone to pay the prices I wanted. I did not make a post that somebody put a can for sale at 10% cheaper - I just bought his cans out and made isk out of them. You're talking about an EXTREMELY niche market here. It is virtually impossible to flood it with goods because the logistics of getting a giant can out to 0.0 are surprisingly difficult. You don't have to deal with dumping from other regions, nor with serious competition. You also have a certain degree of control over the stations, and who can come in and out of the region, and you're competing for a market so remote and out of the way that few traders would even bother to compete with you rather than do what they do in Jita. And of course, if you don't have the means to resupply the giant cans effectively, someeone else could just buy them all up at 4.5m and repric them to 5m and the market would then be theirs. Nevertheless, you're right, complaining about it doesn't get you anywhere. But the post stopped being a complaint pretty long ago and instead turned into a comparative analysis of pricing strategy. We Recruit!
David H'Levi Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.02.06 03:26:00 - [152] Originally by: Lord WarATron However, if you are controling the market - Then buy his goods out and resell. Making a fuss does nothing. Back a few months ago, when I ran the 0.0 Paragoon Soul Giant Can Mafia, where I bought out anyone selling Giant cans cheaper than me and then resold them at 4.5mil in 0.0. Nobody could topple me because I focused on a niche, and forced everyone to pay the prices I wanted. I did not make a post that somebody put a can for sale at 10% cheaper - I just bought his cans out and made isk out of them. You're talking about an EXTREMELY niche market here. It is virtually impossible to flood it with goods because the logistics of getting a giant can out to 0.0 are surprisingly difficult. You don't have to deal with dumping from other regions, nor with serious competition. You also have a certain degree of control over the stations, and who can come in and out of the region, and you're competing for a market so remote and out of the way that few traders would even bother to compete with you rather than do what they do in Jita. And of course, if you don't have the means to resupply the giant cans effectively, someeone else could just buy them all up at 4.5m and repric them to 5m and the market would then be theirs. Nevertheless, you're right, complaining about it doesn't get you anywhere. But the post stopped being a complaint pretty long ago and instead turned into a comparative analysis of pricing strategy. As much as you may love me, your signature must pertain to your in-game persona, and thus I must remove it. -Conuion Meow
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.07 01:28:00 - [153] Originally by: Nitrogendixoide Why is it people will take a perfectly good item which has a high demand and an unusually high price, an start undercutting it by 10% or even more? Do they get off to depriving people of good profits? I can honestly not think of a good reason to kill not only your own profits, but the profits of other people. Why I do it. I dont have time to fart about with the no lifers that sit in stations all day doing their "one unders". If "one unders" happen to me then I undercut hard. He can either "one under" me again or he can wait for me to sell my product. This makes me an impatient person and gets the resellers a lot of business. I dont care. I still make ISK and I invest less time
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.07 01:28:00 - [154] Originally by: Nitrogendixoide Why is it people will take a perfectly good item which has a high demand and an unusually high price, an start undercutting it by 10% or even more? Do they get off to depriving people of good profits? I can honestly not think of a good reason to kill not only your own profits, but the profits of other people. Why I do it. I dont have time to fart about with the no lifers that sit in stations all day doing their "one unders". If "one unders" happen to me then I undercut hard. He can either "one under" me again or he can wait for me to sell my product. This makes me an impatient person and gets the resellers a lot of business. I dont care. I still make ISK and I invest less time
Kellaen Gallente Teeth Of The Hydra	Posted - 2007.02.07 03:09:00 - [155] Isk makes isk, goods that sit on the market for weeks cause of undercutters don't make isk. I'd rather take a loss, get a larger capital and move onto higher end BPO's with larger returns while the .01 undercutter sits trying to peddle the same goods.
Kellaen Gallente Teeth Of The Hydra	Posted - 2007.02.07 03:09:00 - [156] Isk makes isk, goods that sit on the market for weeks cause of undercutters don't make isk. I'd rather take a loss, get a larger capital and move onto higher end BPO's with larger returns while the .01 undercutter sits trying to peddle the same goods.
Robacz Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.07 13:38:00 - [157] Problem is, when two or more ppl with opinion like posters above try to sell same product. _________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered
Robacz Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.07 13:38:00 - [158] Problem is, when two or more ppl with opinion like posters above try to sell same product. _________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered
Kua Burrow	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:56:00 - [159] Aye.
Kua Burrow	Posted - 2007.02.07 16:56:00 - [160] Aye.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.02.07 18:07:00 - [161] Originally by: Robacz Problem is, when two or more ppl with opinion like posters above try to sell same product. That sounds like one of those problems spelled "o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y"... MP
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.02.07 18:07:00 - [162] Originally by: Robacz Problem is, when two or more ppl with opinion like posters above try to sell same product. That sounds like one of those problems spelled "o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y"... MP -- TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs.
satans wrath	Posted - 2007.02.08 04:19:00 - [163] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin They want their stuff to sell fast, simple as that. I am not a trader, and don't care to be. I have been reading some threads on this forum just to learn about what is going on today in eve. While I have no clue about what half of you are talking about I would assume the VAST majority of eve doesn't care to worry about it either. Really who cares waist a bunch of time training up a bunch of Trade skills they will never use when they can train something else to go pew pew. :P (note the sarcasm IÆm really not that dumb, but I hope you get my point about Joe Blow eve pew pewer) I do what you are talking about all the time. I do not have a ton of trading skills. I might be able to have 40 sells going at once at the most, and to be honest IÆm not sure what the real amount is from my skills and don't care all that much. I know that if I'm going to move and have finished this agent or mining in the system, or my corp needs me to help pvp for a few weeks over there I try to unload my hanger as fast as I can and just want a few isk, and for my sell orders not to be up for long. I don't play the market so have no idea how long they will stay up at what prices so I will often undersell quite a bit. That to me is clear as day from the OPs post from the point of view of a eve player that doesn't try to (as we say in the Navy, about over thinking a commonsense problem) "nuke" the question. After having said all of that, like I also said I don't know the markets in eve very well at all other than some of the trading pvp is more intense than some of the real pvp so it very well could be some one messing with you or the market for selfish reasons. :P
satans wrath Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.08 04:19:00 - [164] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin They want their stuff to sell fast, simple as that. I am not a trader, and don't care to be. I have been reading some threads on this forum just to learn about what is going on today in eve. While I have no clue about what half of you are talking about I would assume the VAST majority of eve doesn't care to worry about it either. Really who cares waist a bunch of time training up a bunch of Trade skills they will never use when they can train something else to go pew pew. :P (note the sarcasm IÆm really not that dumb, but I hope you get my point about Joe Blow eve pew pewer) I do what you are talking about all the time. I do not have a ton of trading skills. I might be able to have 40 sells going at once at the most, and to be honest IÆm not sure what the real amount is from my skills and don't care all that much. I know that if I'm going to move and have finished this agent or mining in the system, or my corp needs me to help pvp for a few weeks over there I try to unload my hanger as fast as I can and just want a few isk, and for my sell orders not to be up for long. I don't play the market so have no idea how long they will stay up at what prices so I will often undersell quite a bit. That to me is clear as day from the OPs post from the point of view of a eve player that doesn't try to (as we say in the Navy, about over thinking a commonsense problem) "nuke" the question. After having said all of that, like I also said I don't know the markets in eve very well at all other than some of the trading pvp is more intense than some of the real pvp so it very well could be some one messing with you or the market for selfish reasons. :P
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.02.09 01:05:00 - [165] Edited by: Sun Win on 09/02/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Clementina Half the merchants in this game complain about people who undercut by 0.01 isk. the other half complain about people who undercut by 10 percent or more. I command you merchants to get off the forums and get money. You win the thread. Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Robacz Problem is, when two or more ppl with opinion like posters above try to sell same product. That sounds like one of those problems spelled "o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y"... MP You get runner-up status. New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.02.09 01:05:00 - [166] Edited by: Sun Win on 09/02/2007 01:03:22 Originally by: Clementina Half the merchants in this game complain about people who undercut by 0.01 isk. the other half complain about people who undercut by 10 percent or more. I command you merchants to get off the forums and get money. You win the thread. Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Robacz Problem is, when two or more ppl with opinion like posters above try to sell same product. That sounds like one of those problems spelled "o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y"... MP You get runner-up status. New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Sunset Atrea Minmatar Sunset Asset Management	Posted - 2007.02.20 09:24:00 - [167] It was this thread that finally made my business model complete, and for that I thank you. My business model revolves around me working out how much I want to sell an item for, based on mineral price or purchase price (depending if i'm redistributing or manufacturing). If that sell price is higher than current orders I don't buy the item - simple, no? If it's lower or reasonably close I will buy it. I won't then "mark it up". I will sell it at my price. Nothing more, unless I am 100% sure I can get away with it which is hardly ever. I would be more than happy to make 65% profit on an item selling it to a reseller in the same station than the possibility of sitting on a ton of items hoping to make 85%. 3 items at 65% profit make me more money than 2 items at 85% profit. I know that this business model will not make me loads of ISK quick in the T1 market, but this is an alt that would otherwise sit in a station doing nothing, and the ISK is quick enough for me! ----------------------- CEO Sunset Asset Management
Sunset Atrea Minmatar Sunset Asset Management	Posted - 2007.02.20 09:24:00 - [168] It was this thread that finally made my business model complete, and for that I thank you. My business model revolves around me working out how much I want to sell an item for, based on mineral price or purchase price (depending if i'm redistributing or manufacturing). If that sell price is higher than current orders I don't buy the item - simple, no? If it's lower or reasonably close I will buy it. I won't then "mark it up". I will sell it at my price. Nothing more, unless I am 100% sure I can get away with it which is hardly ever. I would be more than happy to make 65% profit on an item selling it to a reseller in the same station than the possibility of sitting on a ton of items hoping to make 85%. 3 items at 65% profit make me more money than 2 items at 85% profit. I know that this business model will not make me loads of ISK quick in the T1 market, but this is an alt that would otherwise sit in a station doing nothing, and the ISK is quick enough for me! ----------------------- CEO Sunset Asset Management
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.20 11:12:00 - [169] Edited by: Ione Hunt on 20/02/2007 11:18:00 I just setp a buy order at the same time I put up a sell order. If someone undercuts me by 10%, I automatically buy that stuff, and put it back on market at my price. I am doing this with one module atm, and the price hasn't come down in over 2 weeks now (after I pushed it up 5mil/unit) Requires quite a lot of ISK depending on module/ship, but works like a charm Sure, I have to spend ISK, but it isn't a loss since I put it up for more than those cheap "undercutters" _______________
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.20 11:12:00 - [170] Edited by: Ione Hunt on 20/02/2007 11:18:00 I just setp a buy order at the same time I put up a sell order. If someone undercuts me by 10%, I automatically buy that stuff, and put it back on market at my price. I am doing this with one module atm, and the price hasn't come down in over 2 weeks now (after I pushed it up 5mil/unit) Requires quite a lot of ISK depending on module/ship, but works like a charm Sure, I have to spend ISK, but it isn't a loss since I put it up for more than those cheap "undercutters" _______________
Sunset Atrea Minmatar Sunset Asset Management	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:37:00 - [171] And with my pricing strategy I would be more than happy for this to happen. We both profit :) ----------------------- CEO Sunset Asset Management
Sunset Atrea Minmatar Sunset Asset Management	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:37:00 - [172] And with my pricing strategy I would be more than happy for this to happen. We both profit :) ----------------------- CEO Sunset Asset Management
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.02.21 06:39:00 - [173] Well, if anyone undercuts > than broker's fee (%) + sales tax (%), and provided demand is sufficient, then there's no reason not to buy their stuff if you have a stake in the market.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.02.21 06:39:00 - [174] Well, if anyone undercuts > than broker's fee (%) + sales tax (%), and provided demand is sufficient, then there's no reason not to buy their stuff if you have a stake in the market.
Kruugore Minmatar Vigilant Justice	Posted - 2007.03.02 16:27:00 - [175] Personally, I'd like to see an option like EBAY. However, reversed. Where your sales will automatically undercut to a certain price point. I'd prefer someone undercut me by 10%, than by 0.01 isk. I usually at Minimum undercut by 1% if I'm going to undercut. Mr. K VIGILANT JUSTICE CEO/FOUNDER EVE Vault, A Great Community
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:41:00 - [176] If I see anyone undercutting me non-stop to the point that every 5 minutes they update very order of theirs to be lower than mine I go to war with that person. I start raising the prices on the module by 5% at a time, hoping they don't stop and they raise their buy prices to match. Then after I've gotten them much higher I wait a day, let their orders all get filled... then I destroy that market by flooding it with excessive amounts of goods under the price that person paid. I then watch as the market plummets from all the sellers undercutting me... and as the compulsive under cutter loses 10's of millions if not more. Sure, if I had just been willing to sit at my computer 24/7 and undercut him back I could have made twice the profit I did.... but this way I screwed him over and I still made a tidy profit myself. It generally knocks him out of the market and if not, I'll do it again. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
GC13 Caldari Derelik Trading Company	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:44:00 - [177] Originally by: Kruugore Personally, I'd like to see an option like EBAY. However, reversed. Where your sales will automatically undercut to a certain price point. That system is exactly what I want. We pay our brokers a bunch of money for somebody who doesn't fly a capsule-fitted ship, so why do they sit on their butts while other brokers under-cut them? Lazy punks. -- Science and Industry guide plus A Newbie's Guide to Caldari Ships Eve and RPG blog
Beldaws Gallente Just Me and My Alts	Posted - 2007.03.03 01:20:00 - [178] I personally am a .01 isk undercutter. I don't monitor my prices every day like some people do though. Once every couple of weeks I will fly around and adjust my prices. It keep the prices high for a long time and it gives everyone a chance to make nice profit. Saying that, I will have to admit that I don't spend a lot of time putting in buy order to get my building materials as cheap as I should. I buy my materials at whatever the cheapest sell order is that I can find in the quantity that I need. I calculate my sell price based on what it cost me to build the item then I add in the OMFGIWannaBeUberRich (T2 BPO owner's manual pg. 1) percentage on top of that. Why does WalMart sell stuff so much cheaper than everyone else? Simple, it's because they buy stuff cheaper than most other stores can. They may have the same profit percentage as everyone else, but they can still sell it cheaper. The problem with this approach in Eve is that the .01 undercutters will still undercut you and once the price goes down, it's next to impossible to get it back up again.
Beldaws Gallente Just Me and My Alts	Posted - 2007.03.03 01:26:00 - [179] That's something else that sometimes happens too. I'll admit that I've done it before. Sometimes you'll get those one or two people that have to undercut as often as possible and as much as possible. Once in a while you might have to crash a regional market just to get the person to either stop producing or to get them to move to a different region. Once they move on, you can buy up all that's on the market and reprice back to a good price. Originally by: Shadarle If I see anyone undercutting me non-stop to the point that every 5 minutes they update very order of theirs to be lower than mine I go to war with that person. I start raising the prices on the module by 5% at a time, hoping they don't stop and they raise their buy prices to match. Then after I've gotten them much higher I wait a day, let their orders all get filled... then I destroy that market by flooding it with excessive amounts of goods under the price that person paid. I then watch as the market plummets from all the sellers undercutting me... and as the compulsive under cutter loses 10's of millions if not more. Sure, if I had just been willing to sit at my computer 24/7 and undercut him back I could have made twice the profit I did.... but this way I screwed him over and I still made a tidy profit myself. It generally knocks him out of the market and if not, I'll do it again.
Lygos Finis Actum	Posted - 2007.03.03 08:28:00 - [180] You guys have this all wrong. That is actually market code for "I want you to wardec me." Market = PvP engine. Now do you want factories in POS? --- T2 Risk \| Corp Divisions

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