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zielonyPL
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2015.12.15 10:54:15 -
[1] - Quote
Hello, at start just wanna say sorry for my english skills but i will try to type it in simple way.
A lot of players treat jump clones as implants holders, i dont have to much alt accounts so i use my main for pvp and for pve, its pretty anoying when i want to farm i need to jump into my pve clone and i am stucked in it for a long time. After for eg. 3h farming i want to go pvp etc, and i cant becouse i will not risk my expensive implant for pvp so i cant enjoy game in 100%.
I know that delay is becouse people would travel to fast across the map BUT.
Why dont you allow people to get in Jump Clone when they are on this same station without delay? SIMPLE :>
What do you think about it players, what do you think about it CCP. |
Greko Barkalas
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.12.15 11:04:51 -
[2] - Quote
bump! |
Maichin Civire
85
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Posted - 2015.12.15 11:07:38 -
[3] - Quote
It was done on purpose. If there was no restriction on such activities, it'd be possible to jump between Querious, Venal, Great Wildlands, Curse and Pure Blind in few minutes, so it COULD lead to people being able to deploy simultanously anywhere in space.
Current system works good as it is. If you want to rat, go do it. You can do it 19h, then change jumpclone.
Best way could be if you don't use expensive pods for pvp in nullsec... |
zielonyPL
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2015.12.15 11:12:09 -
[4] - Quote
Maichin Civire wrote:It was done on purpose. If there was no restriction on such activities, it'd be possible to jump between Querious, Venal, Great Wildlands, Curse and Pure Blind in few minutes, so it COULD lead to people being able to deploy simultanously anywhere in space.
Current system works good as it is. If you want to rat, go do it. You can do it 19h, then change jumpclone.
Best way could be if you don't use expensive pods for pvp in nullsec...
You didnt, understand me, i have no problem with delay with jumping from diffrent station to diffrent station, but why cant we sit in clone when we are in this same station:> |
Mornak
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
75
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Posted - 2015.12.15 11:33:57 -
[5] - Quote
at the moment, it's not possible to have more than one JC in a station (legacy code i guess).
but once that changes, i could actually get behind this. but it would definitely have to be limited to JCs in the same station!!
+1 |
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2015.12.15 11:49:37 -
[6] - Quote
So my expensive clones will never, ever, EVER be at risk? Got'cha. |
zielonyPL
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2015.12.15 12:05:06 -
[7] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:So my expensive clones will never, ever, EVER be at risk? Got'cha.
Not true my firend, they will be, every time you decide to risk them :> |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
858
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Posted - 2015.12.15 12:20:07 -
[8] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:So my expensive clones will never, ever, EVER be at risk? Got'cha.
What? Because they are today? If they are, you're doing it wrong. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Snuffed Out
9138
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:22:55 -
[9] - Quote
I believe the DEVs wanted you to choose and commit to an activity rather than jump around and min/max with implant sets.
If you want to go PvPing, do so. Your implants are not stopping you. You are because you are afraid. That is a player issue, not a gameplay issue.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9711
|
Posted - 2015.12.15 15:25:01 -
[10] - Quote
I think T2 Underpants with extra Gravimetric Poop Control would be a better idea for the OP
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
858
|
Posted - 2015.12.15 15:45:25 -
[11] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:If you want to go PvPing, do so. Your implants are not stopping you. You are because you are afraid. That is a player issue, not a gameplay issue.
If you think people are going to pop on a casual/fun null/wh roam with a HG slave set plugged in from a prior op I have a bridge to sell you.
They just don't, save extreme edge cases, because doing so it flat out stupid and the smart move is not playing.
I'm all for "HTFU" but there does come a point where common sense enters the equation and people not undocking doesn't just affect them but the people they would have interacted with had they gone out. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
819
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:49:33 -
[12] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:If you want to go PvPing, do so. Your implants are not stopping you. You are because you are afraid. That is a player issue, not a gameplay issue. If you think people are going to pop on a casual/fun null/wh roam with a HG slave set plugged in from a prior op I have a bridge to sell you. They just don't, save extreme edge cases, because doing so it flat out stupid and the smart move is not playing. I'm all for "HTFU" but there does come a point where common sense enters the equation and people not undocking doesn't just affect them but the people they would have interacted with had they gone out.
I'm one of the people who love punishing others for stupidity and the implementation of in station clone swapping would grant me less tears harvested.
This post however puts things into perspective and nicely presents the issue of fun/hour limit that such timers have.
Just as wormhole rolling, jump fatigue and global criminal timers restrict it so does this.
If you don't want eve to become something you play every 2 days for 5 minutes or so you should start fixing these issues.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
858
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Posted - 2015.12.15 15:55:30 -
[13] - Quote
Yes, I find it somewhat paradoxical.
"Don't fly what you [wouldnt want to or can't] replace"
"Omfg don't be such a pussy, go run as a sabre with a HG set in!"
I mean, everyone has a good chuckle at the "billion isk, plex tanked frigate" - yet that's exactly what a HG set (or similar) going on a fun T3 roam is yet people are ostracised for suggesting that maybe it's just arbitrary stifling of life.
Wait...what? Can people genuinely not see the disconnect/hypocrisy there? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2025
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Posted - 2015.12.15 16:46:08 -
[14] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Yes, I find it somewhat paradoxical.
"Don't fly what you [wouldnt want to or can't] replace"
"Omfg don't be such a pussy, go run as a sabre with a HG set in!"
I mean, everyone has a good chuckle at the "billion isk, plex tanked frigate" - yet that's exactly what a HG set (or similar) going on a fun T3 roam is yet people are ostracised for suggesting that maybe it's just arbitrary stifling of life.
Wait...what? Can people genuinely not see the disconnect/hypocrisy there?
Remember that most of the people advocating "HTFU, just risk your implants" never leave low or high sec, and therefore run a negligible risk with those implants.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
860
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Posted - 2015.12.15 17:36:37 -
[15] - Quote
Well there's that but for me the more irritating thing is there is no meaningful choice. In a HG clone with a timer ticking there's no choice to be had when you want to have fun/roam , only a mistake to be made. It's very analogous to the old clone grades although not quite as bad.
Some say you made your choice when you jumped and that's true - but really, who gains? I'll play fallout and they won't get a fight. I risk the implants on the strat op, why am I married to them afterwards when it only denies content (unless mistakes are made)
If we assume there are few mistakes made (reasonable) then all we have is something that blocks potential content for the following 20 hours.
/Shrug. Seems silly. |
Mornak
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
76
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Posted - 2015.12.15 19:05:05 -
[16] - Quote
i too would rather have a target without an expensive pod than no target at all.... |
Alexis Nightwish
362
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Posted - 2015.12.15 20:03:43 -
[17] - Quote
I've always wished that you could remove implants with out destroying them, but they would be locked to your character. I mean, one of the great things about EVE is you can choose what ship and modules you want to put at risk depending on the situation without penalty, but implants are a completely different story.
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
Well, I've got my HGs in my head for 19 more hours, guess I won't be flying until then...
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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zielonyPL
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
4
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Posted - 2015.12.16 01:14:48 -
[18] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
Well, I've got my HGs in my head for 19 more hours, guess I won't be flying until then...
Exactly what i mean, you will not enjoy the game until 19 hours. When you use your main to pve and pvp its very anoying ;)
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
Apocalypse Now.
176
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Posted - 2015.12.16 07:54:16 -
[19] - Quote
First and foremost - this topic has been discussed to death, I don't know how many times.
Second - CCP has spoken against making changes to JC (true reason is probably the legacy code will break the whole game)
But, I would stand by a system that allowed faster jump cloning in the form of JC Fatigue.
Set the shortest jump time to say 2 hours with the max being 24 - (player skill) [so as low as 19hrs]
Now - unlike many of the people above me, I do tend to fly in crazy expensive clones, but generally speaking only because I can be bothered with PVP'n for 30 minutes and having to wait the next 20 hours to JC again. Generally speaking, I will undock for larger fleet ops, but never do solo PVP.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
Apocalypse Now.
176
|
Posted - 2015.12.16 08:15:35 -
[20] - Quote
I also want to say - when CCP releases Citadels, this will have to be locked at. As far as I am aware, there won't be limits on the number of citadels in system.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
|
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
2161
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Posted - 2015.12.16 10:01:52 -
[21] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
Well, I've got my HGs in my head for 19 more hours, guess I won't be flying until then...
That is your decision. If you are afraid of not being able to "fly for 19 more hours" because you are in your precious HG Slaves, don't jump into your HG Slave set when you do not want to do things for 20 hours in that clone, or alternatively do not fly in an area of space where you can easily lose them, or do not fly ships with which you can easily lose them (that Sabre + HG set, by the way, is a ridiculous example. Only daft people would fly a sabre if they are in this kind of clone; thus, that example is moot as a reason for the change.).
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
866
|
Posted - 2015.12.16 10:04:52 -
[22] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:Now - unlike many of the people above me, I do tend to fly in crazy expensive clones, but generally speaking only because I can be bothered with PVP'n for 30 minutes and having to wait the next 20 hours to JC again. Generally speaking, I will undock for larger fleet ops, but never do solo PVP.
Yes, for a fleet fight (or really anything well organised) that's fine but things like a rage undock or a T3D/frigate roam someone fancies then I'll decline as it's just not smart.
I mean, I've a bunch of alts it isn't the end of the world but it is stupid.
I like the overall cooldown as it is attached to travel, same station/system I wouldn't mind being looked at one day. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
393
|
Posted - 2015.12.16 11:35:56 -
[23] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote:"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
Well, I've got my HGs in my head for 19 more hours, guess I won't be flying until then... That is your decision. If you are afraid of not being able to "fly for 19 more hours" because you are in your precious HG Slaves, don't jump into your HG Slave set when you do not want to do things for 20 hours in that clone, or alternatively do not fly in an area of space where you can easily lose them, or do not fly ships with which you can easily lose them (that Sabre + HG set, by the way, is a ridiculous example. Only daft people would fly a sabre if they are in this kind of clone; thus, that example is moot as a reason for the change.).
what if (as is all too common), I've been on a bit of a break doing some long shifts, come back, hop into my PVE clone, then within about 5-6 hrs, someone invites me to a roam into low/null, and I'm thinking "I've got my expensive head on", I could travel to the location of the usual fleet form-up in about 20 mins, with a 'ceptor or cov-ops, and hop into the clone, so you're not preventing me travelling, just from going out and blowing **** up.
my point is, sometimes you don't know that a fleet is gonna form, or that someone IRL will say something that makes you wanna go and ruin someone elses day.
I don't see anything wrong with changing jump-clones at the same station without a timer (but maintain not allowed to STORE more than 1 jc/station)
Legacy code is likely the bigger issue.
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio
The OSS
873
|
Posted - 2015.12.16 13:54:21 -
[24] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote:"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
Well, I've got my HGs in my head for 19 more hours, guess I won't be flying until then... That is your decision. If you are afraid of not being able to "fly for 19 more hours" because you are in your precious HG Slaves, don't jump into your HG Slave set when you do not want to do things for 20 hours in that clone, or alternatively do not fly in an area of space where you can easily lose them, or do not fly ships with which you can easily lose them (that Sabre + HG set, by the way, is a ridiculous example. Only daft people would fly a sabre if they are in this kind of clone; thus, that example is moot as a reason for the change.).
That's entirely my point.
I risk my implants when I fly in them. I'm happy in an armor machariel fleet with triage using HG slaves. I risk them there and I get benefits meriting the cost and the risk (massive cost, massive gain, acceptable risk terms).
However in that clone I would NEVER fly a dictor. This means what when spontaneous content arrives which requires "I NEED DICTORS AT XXXX NOW!" that means the HG toon isn't going. Flat out not happening, ever.
The question at hand is simply: Is that healthy? As I say, it's no skin off my nose, I'll play fallout. But those who would fight with me, or against me? They lose out, because of a risk and decision I took hours before.
We could argue that "hangover" of the clone jump timer is additional punishment for jumping in the first place but that's ass backwards because if that where the case, the cooldown would in fact be a blocker that you need to wait down before first jumping (like when you biomass). This would also suck, by the way.
The limitation to stop mass instant transit is good, lifting that limitation to same station clones would also be good.
For my personal viewpoint it would ONLY increase my availability to interact with others - and honestly, that can only be good on the whole. Certainly one could say no-one is forcing me to stay logged off/docked however I do not think anyone would seriously contend that such action is anything but smart?
I suppose it comes down to the value people place on content which might have been. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
686
|
Posted - 2015.12.16 14:52:30 -
[25] - Quote
Neither for or against this idea, just some thoughts I did not see addressed and the basis for my comments is best illustrated by this part of a post by Morrigan LeSante.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:However in that clone I would NEVER fly a dictor. This means what when spontaneous content arrives which requires "I NEED DICTORS AT XXXX NOW!" that means the HG toon isn't going. Flat out not happening, ever.
To be blunt here you want to change your ability to project force at a moments notice and not only the force you personally can project, but the ability of your entire fleet / corp / alliance as well. I understand and could even support the idea of unrestricted same station clone jumping from a fun / hr basis I am not convinced that it should out weight the potential for affecting force projection on a more localized scale.
For this next one we have to accept that there are no technical limitations that keep you from having multiple jump clones in a single station. Whether that is true now or in the future is not relevant to the basic idea here so we will ignore that part.
How many jump clones do we allow?
Can you have 2, or maybe all of them all in the same station?
How does this affect force projection on a more localized scale when every player can have the "perfect" clone available in whatever station they need them in.
In the end assessment and I know this is un-popular but I think CCP needs to just remove ALL implants in the game they are a huge balance issue that ALWAYS tips the scales in favor of those who have the most ISK to spend. To me the cost and ability differences the various fitting pieces bring to the table are enough of a boost for those with large ISK reserves they do not need the added advantage given by implants.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
354
|
Posted - 2015.12.16 14:55:40 -
[26] - Quote
Same station may never happen because of legacy code, but if this idea came under reconsideration by the devs, it could be implemented through same system jumping.
Or, if they're feeling generous, I thought it would be nice to actually have a slightly more scaled system. Right now we have "Infomorph Synchronizing" skill which reduces cooldown by 1 hour per level. Let's keep that in mind and make a new system where you generate cooldown based on number of systems between clones (a system like this is already in place for calculating distances between stations for station trading). Each systems between the clones creates 10 hours of cooldown, up to the limit of 24. But...with the Synch skill, reduces that cooldown to 5 hours per system. So, if you jump within the same system to a different station - no cooldown. If you jump to the next system over, 5 hours. Three systems over, 15 hours.
Jump fatigue is more nuanced based on distance, with the oft-said message of "you don't generate fatigue if you use gates". So if you don't try to fast-travel, you get no fatigue. Well, why not bring some of that slack to jump cloning? If you don't use it for fast travel, get no fatigue. If you do use to for travel, generate fatigue rapidly.
Yes, I know it's been shot down before, but things get reconsidered from time to time. I keep thinking to myself that the HIC focused scram buff is going to be reconsidered eventually. But, for either case, I don't hold my breath.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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zielonyPL
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
8
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Posted - 2015.12.19 17:10:44 -
[27] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Same station may never happen because of legacy code, but if this idea came under reconsideration by the devs, it could be implemented through same system jumping.
Or, if they're feeling generous, I thought it would be nice to actually have a slightly more scaled system. Right now we have "Infomorph Synchronizing" skill which reduces cooldown by 1 hour per level. Let's keep that in mind and make a new system where you generate cooldown based on number of systems between clones (a system like this is already in place for calculating distances between stations for station trading). Each systems between the clones creates 10 hours of cooldown, up to the limit of 24. But...with the Synch skill, reduces that cooldown to 5 hours per system. So, if you jump within the same system to a different station - no cooldown. If you jump to the next system over, 5 hours. Three systems over, 15 hours.
Jump fatigue is more nuanced based on distance, with the oft-said message of "you don't generate fatigue if you use gates". So if you don't try to fast-travel, you get no fatigue. Well, why not bring some of that slack to jump cloning? If you don't use it for fast travel, get no fatigue. If you do use to for travel, generate fatigue rapidly.
Yes, I know it's been shot down before, but things get reconsidered from time to time. I keep thinking to myself that the HIC focused scram buff is going to be reconsidered eventually. But, for either case, I don't hold my breath.
Very good idea my friend, i hope CPP read this, and takin that serious ;) |
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